Legs vs Cardio: Which Is your Limiter?
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2019
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Another great video! Enjoying these immensely and picking up so many little snippets of incredibly useful information.
Great video again guys, loving this content.
Thanks so much for watching!
its interesting at 65 to restructure my workouts to regain strenght power and potential but your vids are helpful. Goal is to not race but to ride th Ochoco Overlander next year with ease!
7:20 guys you literally have how many test subjects as users. You guys can do this, it may take some work certifying the users tests, but you have the ability to do massive multi year studies, also, it adds users loyalty to your app. Like seriously, these "studies" are no brainers. Yes, you probably won't be able to produce a peer reviewed pure scientific paper, but my gosh you can move the science forward.
You hinted on the fact that it could be fun if TrainerRoad started to involved in the actual science with regards to training. Considering the fact that TrainerRoad have one of the biggest amounts of training data (with history) that could be a real thing of the future.
I dont get why they don't do it. They can call them challenges, for every user that finishes the study, they can donate to charity, builds user loyalty while moving the science forward. The CMO is sleeping at the wheel on this
The trouble is, can you actually trust the power data for a big chunk of the trainerroad users? You would have to validate the power meters somehow
TR is a company, not a funded research institution so they guard their data for their paying customers to get faster.
You can measure this with NIRS. Ultimately it's a balance of your mitochondrial and oxygen supply. Endurance athletes tend to not use all of the oxygen supplied by the Cardiovascular system during a sprint whilst sprinters use all of it. See my video clip on Moxy 5-1-5 test.
When I started cycle commuting to work my legs were my limiter. It took about 3 years till they caught up to my cardio. Now it seems it takes much more effort to make any gains.
Quite common in your case. The high one gets with the fitness, the harder the workouts will have to be in order to bring little advance.
Interestingly, I actually found it easier to start gaining fitness once my legs caught up. After 2 years of plateau, I found ways to push myself more aerobically, part of this was smarter choice of intervals, e.g. 40/20s which give your legs rest while keeping your heart rate high and breathing in the target VO2max zone, and this ended up significantly boosting my overall fitness, allowing my old Threshold to become high tempo. The downside was once this ceiling had been pushed, legs were once again the limiter for steady-state efforts, so its been interesting going through cycles of bringing them up again :)
Slow force training in the gym is not overly beneficial. It can be done on the bike with strength endurance training. If you want to do gym work, work fast twitch fibres. Do Olympic weightlifting type training. Not necessarily high weights but moving the weights fast. Use the gym for training that’s hard to train on the bike. The Olympic weightlifting training also improves flexibility and strengthening the core.
This is exactly what I've been wondering. The fact that we can't ride or run forever at Z2 makes me question this whole lactate threshold thing. There must be something else, and I guess is muscle fibers
Just found the channel and I’m really getting into it. But, this vid lost me a few times. I’ve been cycling regularly for about a year and a half, and I just signed up for my first race coming up in February. I feel like Chad is making some really good points, I just don’t know what he’s talking about LOL
Thanks for the video. One point for consideration: strength training is not just 1rep max. I doubt that eg doing a 10 minute EMOM with 10-12 front squats at a moderately heavy weight (eg 60-70% body weight) wouldn't improve cycling if done regularly
I never do slow force strength training in the gym. Only power training… strength with velocity.. Olympic weightlifting type training
When would you do the Sprint training? SSB, Build, Specialty Phase or throughout all of these? If during the Specialty phase, would you do the sprint intervals in the first 4 weeks or the last 4 weeks before your A race?
Sprint training is something that can be utilized and maintained throughout the year with minimal negative impact on your training, but it will be most productive in the Specialty Phase if you are planning to sprint in your goal event. Including 1-2 sprint sessions a week should be all that is needed, and no need to worry about where to fit them in unless you find they are causing a level of fatigue that is compromising other workouts. If they are having a detrimental effect, consider only 1 per week. In terms of where you should fit them in during the week, they pair very well with a lower intensity, sustained effort sort of day, and we'd recommend slotting them in after your warmup to maximize freshness and increase peak power output.
Great information. So for a brand new cyclist, anyone know what a good training program would be to get going?
We recommend starting with our Sweet Spot Base Low Volume Plan! This plan is perfect for easing you into your training and helping you build that Base and prepare you for the next plan.
That is a very interesting discussion; I have a "training mate" and we are doing comparable workouts and we had an interesting observation in AC-intervalls; if we both set the intervall target so high that we ride to failure, he cannot go any more because his legs do not want any more while I have to stop due to (at least perceived) suffocating. It is also an interesting question with regard to "RPE" as even raising the question of "leg failure" or "cardio failure" implies that RPE is not such a simple metric as it seems to be.
My legs were way ahead early in my cycling career and now they are way behind . Funny how that works as you get older .
The cardio allows you to do the bigger rides but the consequence it burns up the legs and can also affect the upper body . I think you just have to back off and give more recovery and regain some balance . You need both in harmony to perform at your optimine level . You only can go as fast as your weakest link so to speak.
Cardio doesn't burns your legs (except for races or other anaerobic sessions ) . To prevent muscle loss you just have to be a bit of a weightlifter in the off season and continue with 1-2 gym sessions through the entire season. Also loss of muscles might be a sign of lack of energy aka calories
You know I'm going to have to try Spanish Needle and Striped, now. I don't even need to do sprint stuff, but I'm a glutton for pain
My cardio goes before my legs. I've been running and it's definitely helped me ride better cardio wise
Fabled spin like froome i guess for cardio 35km/h @ 100rpm and maintain.. for 1 hour or so and try not to lag,find a good place with no traffic
@@blitzy19 training with speed and cadence wow.... are you from the 60s?
@@davidzzz94 cadence is king since 2016
@@JR-wj9bh "was" king for non-pros in 2016. It's 2021 now, and cadence focus has been debunked. Self selected cadence for any experienced cyclist is the best for training AND racing. Only power matters.
@@davidzzz94 cadence is king
Cycling even for only 4min involves hundreds of repetitions and as such is not force limited at all. It is a question of energy/oxygen delivery to the muscle fibers.
Energy production between threshold and VO2max is not dominated by anaerobic energy production. Anaerobic work capacity is a historical misnomer. Thats why nowadays its called W' (W prime). Up to VO2max the oxygen consuption rises linearly with power for most people. Its the type 2 fibers which are inefficient at aerobic work production and tire quickly, compensating bad efficiency by some anaerobic contribution, but its still predominantly aerobic.
Above vo2max anaerobic metabolism really takes over.
Slow force work is not what some think it is. I rode at a cadence of 75 - 78 rpm for 2 - 3 years and it NEVER made me a faster cyclist. I also did 60 - 65 rpm work for years and IT didn't do anything other than cause tendon injuries. The problem is that you can't do enough of it to make a difference that is quantifiable...and if you try you might just incur an injury. It's not what some triathletes and roadies "think" it is. I think that there is more a placebo effect than anything. If you want to increase the amount of force you can produce at time trial cadence then it only makes sense to do intervals at your time trial cadence. Specificity. It's why we do all those 3 - 5 - 8 min and longer intervals every week.
You need to hit the gym to get stronger. The problem with masters cyclists or triathletes they think they don’t need to hit the gym to benefit their ride and relies in the bike only.
The study has been proven that strength training improves cycling and running efficiency but also makes you stronger on the later part of the race where lots of masters fade just relying on volume cycling. Lift heavy stuff and lift light stuff fast. Eccentric is the bang for buck.
@@jacklauren9359 Then how is it that junior cyclists, with gear restrictions, can produce more power than many grown, adult, male cyclists? You are losing me here bud. I follow a few junior cyclists and they are doing less weight training and more 22 - 25 hr weeks on the bike. Maybe in the offseason they will work a strength program...but once the season starts in earnest? I don't think so. How is it that I can produce more power after 14 weeks of threshold training 2x/wk and NO weightlifting?
Now I don't doubt that a strength program in the offseason, as I mentioned above, is beneficial. But to be doing weight training throughout the season? Count me out of that one. 20 hr weeks are hard enough to recover from. The best way to work fast twitch fibers is sustained and consistent Z4/Z5 work. There ain't...no...shortcut.
I'm sorry, I just don't buy it sir. I don't think that weightlifting is in any way a substitute for getting your ass on your bike and riding those 20 hr+ weeks. That's the best way to gain the endurance you need in the latter part of a long race...and I'm not talking about the once per week long weekend ride. I'm talking about 3 - 4 long rides per week, in the 3 - 5 hr range.
My limiter is time.
Can't you do studies by changing the training plan around? Some people getting randomly assigned to one training plan over another. You have enough users to have a large pool and you can track changes by increases in ftp from the ramp tests they are already doing.
That's a great idea Eli. We have a couple different ways of accomplishing the same thing. We're constantly tweaking and improving our plans based on the body of data we have to work with, and are excited to constantly improve our training. :slightly_smiling_face:
Agreed, different people react to a different kind of training, TR should put some analytics into their training plans to suit a different type of cyclists.
@@sempahriders easy for you guys to say, I’ll put you in their situation and spend money on it to make it work. What you and others like is basically personalised coaching. You guys know how much that costs a month right? If y’all want personalised and individualised coaching then prepare to pay more than just a yearly subscription pay. If you know you know.
Do y’all know how much money involves when it comes to collecting data, doing all the science publishing etc? I would bet that none of you will pay individualised coaching price when trainerroad asks for it.
Let’s talk about me because I’m so important but nobody knows yet. Joke aside, the podcast is getting exceptionally interesting.
My legs always cramp b4 my cardio runs out
GamePossible harden that legs then..squat with 100lbs or so
My squat is 280
GamePossible maybe do 150 and lots o reps. 250lb you gain m.weight which your cardio will compensate..you heart will carry your mass
you just want it to harden and try to keep your weight same..unless you going to do a lot of cardio too then yah pump those 250s 🙂
GamePossible just find your sweet and know when to shift gears especially on the gradual climb & keep the pace or power. tell yourself what speed you want to be on that day...for instance i wanna do 100km long then ill only do 30-35km/h
Neither...my total and complete lack of mental toughness kicks in way before my body gives out.
If you can physically still handle the workout, then what is your brain bitching about? :)
Boredom?
Spanish needle?? Looks like a suicide interval to me!!
Can you say all of the above again in English?
Guys who can’t run anymore. Hey I can still bike
You mean I need to go back to the gym!!!
That is true! Not much stress on the bike!!!
But, cyclists with mass look less wimpy lol