Yeah right, it was one of those mons that in regular playthrough is pretty good but always underwhelming in competitive. Finally it makes sense competitively.
I think Golduck deserves a bit more credit than you gave it! True, it’s raw stats aren’t the best, but Specs Hydro Pump hits like a truck. It’s got a surprisingly good range of coverage moves too.
If Golduck can perform as a swift swim sweeper it says more about how strong swift swim is rather than how good golduck is: Golduck has nothing going for it over other special or mixed swift swimmers. No secondary typing, no unusual coverage moves, a very middling 95 base special attack, no notable defensive utility... it's better than Limineon and Luvdisc but it's bottom of the barrel otherwise.
@@DanBottiglieri Well said, Golduck with Specs Pump in the rain hits hard, but what special attacking Swift Swimmer doesn’t have that trait in the rain? Almost all of them do
Basculegion and Mega Pert are literally s tier rain abusers, there is a reason why people fear basculegion-M even if its not legal yet (Last Respects.), and why mega swampert is the swift swim abuser of choice.
Golduck is unironically one of the best rain sweepers. It’s insanely good with nasty plot and perfect grass knot coverage. Golduck is not to be messed with. Having calcs like always ohko offensive ghoul, doing 60% to tera water garg, 80% to dondozo. It’s also got a little bulk, which is really useful in a meta where chien pao threatens choice locked rain sweepers so heavily. Seriously don’t knock the duck
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 234-276 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Barraskewda: 216-255 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Not OHKOs unless it has an SD up or is banded.
@@donkkut5003 Floatzel can click Liquidation, most of those teams run Iron Treads to hazard removal, and they run Band, not LO. Tera Dark is a problem, but they can click Aqua Jet, which is a 2HKO on Chien-Pao, chunks most mons, and causes Sucker Punch to fail.
@@AshenDust_ That’s best case scenario you’re talking about. The only reason you’d run float over barra is to click wave crash, so you’re more likely than not clicking it. Don’t forget rocky helmet doing 17% which makes chien ohko
yo don't diss the goatduck I think it's the only effective Nasty Plot sweeper in the ranking? sure it only got the move this gen, but it got it nonetheless and it's great~
Last Respects and Gigaton Hammer are not remotely on the same power level. Gigaton Hammer is 160 power, Last Respects is 300 power. 160 is only 40 higher than the typical 120 options like Close Combat while 300 is so far beyond the realm of normal that there is 0% way to justify it existing. It's stronger than Explosion. You cannot outplay 300 power, and Gamefreak likely isn't gonna stop distributing it, the move has to go.
Glad to know that Freezai actually travelled to the future and checked if Basculegion will get Swift Swim in Scarlet and Violet! Such dedication to provide top-tier information for RUclips can't go unappreciated.
Thank you for the help! I really wanted to build a swift swim team in SWSH then SV came out and I couldn't bring my favorite pokemon and the star of my team concept into SV. So having someone lay out all the options is helpful.
I honestly don't think I'll ever be able to understand all the outrage behind the Houndstone ban, and it's honestly so frustrating that you feel like you have to tiptoe around the subject as a content creator. So many people were outraged because the council "didn't let the meta settle" when Houndstone was banned yet simultaneously insist that Last Respects should be banned off a Pokemon that isn't even in the format yet. And they don't see how hypocritical that is... Like yes, sure, on paper Basculegion is absolutely a better abuser of Last Respects than Houndstone. However, we're unable to predict what the meta will be like when (and after) Basculegion drops, and that context is essentially the most, if not the ONLY important thing when it comes to deciding what gets banned and what doesn't. It's entirely possible at that time the tier is full of viable normal types, tera normal users, sucker punch/shadow sneak users, etc. that make Last Respecs less of a threat; and if that happens, Houndstone would also get unbanned. It's also possible that it isn't the case and the move gets complex banned within a week. But the whole point is literally being able to justify that decision based on play metrics and a council vote. The job of the council isn't to predict what will happen a year from now, it's to take the current OU format as it exists and keep it competitive. It sets a genuinely terrible precedent if the council were to simply ban something due to it "seeming" overpowered on paper months in advance of it even making it onto Smogon servers. With the exception of box legendaries (which at this point has become a historical precedent--and importantly IS NOT a complex ban) this doesn't happen and I see no justifiable reason why that should change now. I'm sympathetic to the people who "liked" Houndstone and wanted to use it in OU, however the integrity of the tier/council comes first, without question. If you disagree with me, ask yourself: on SW/SS Day 1, had Fishious Rend been complex banned--without even a single match of play--would you support that decision? Because there should only be one answer to that question.
Actually used a shiny swift swim seaking on rain teams in swsh with a choice band its a very fun pokemon to use especially with drill run ground coverage to surprise electric types
This is gonna sound crazy, but I think lumineon could be moved to c tier for it's utility to set up rain teams and it's access to tailwind, rain dance in worst case scenarios, u turn, and waterfall. It's not a sweeper whatsoever, but I think it can fid decently as a swift swim support.
Rain teams already have swift swimmers, no need for tailwind (which is a p bad move in singles,) rain dance is already provided by your setter (who has the longevity to remain alive,) u-turn (many rain mons also have flip turn and other mons have u-turn), and it's not strong enough to make it worth it
@@Rose-ez7yn I'm not saying it's top tier, but I'd say it is better than dreadnaw. It's got decent special coverage in dazzling gleam, air slash, ice beam, hyper beam access to decent physical coverage in acrobatics, thief, giga impact/facade/take down, and U-turn. Along with getting chilling water when it didn't get scald previously which is a decent buff for it.
@@zaclittlejohn2701 drednaw gets shell smash and can be genuinely threatening. Those are all really odd coverage/utility options (hyper beam?) and you listed like 10 of them when lumineon only has 4 moveslots
Personally I think float is a B tier. Don't get pissed at me let me explain. Float gets countered by bulky resists and water absorb mons on top of also getting it's pack smoked by priority. Float doesn't have very good coverage unlike the berricuda, and it's hard to get in safely bc of it's low defenses. Wave crash is crazy but it also hurts float back, and if float taps a blissey or anything with high hp he dies. Before you get more pissed at me for not saying berricuda monster is also bad bc he was nerfed, I'm going by gen 8 cudda and I like flip turn on that boy
@@squirtondisgedo Skewda has more coverage, but the extra coverage has isn’t necessarily better. Skewda is not dead though, it probably still gets use. Floatzle is also a lot more brain dead to use. Calcs: 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 155-183 (50.9 - 60.1%) 252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 164-194 (53.9 - 63.8%) (You will likely always Tera your floatzle)
Swift Swim Shell Smash Drednaw on my NatDex OU Rain Team can actually puts in some work there (alongside Mega Swamp), even after the rain is up tho granted, it was partially cause of Teralization but still; a Shell Smash Swift Swimmer with 115 Atk, 74 Spe and ok bulk sounds absurd on paper
Yeah, he's kinda like pert in some ways: not too great swift swim speed but compensated with super high attack. Sadly, its bulk is still pretty mediocre unlike pert, any scarfer can put a lot of damage on it. What I see is both being used together with another defensive core on a eain team. That's what I think will be the most effective.
His gen 8 steel team still works in natdex monotype, I pushed to like ~1400 with a pure gen 1-8 team. You could also try sample teams or just looking on showdown/smogon forums. He already said he doesn't really enjoy playing the current gen 9 monotype due to the lack of variety, so he probably won't make a video on this for quite some time.
people are sleepin on tera water liquidation swift swim beartic - with a choice band that shit hits hard in the rain absolute sleeper + plus good coverage with crunch and icicle crash
I don't think the last respects take was good tbh Yeah, both of the mons that get it are broken with it, they'te not balanced with less attack like tinkaton is with gigaton hammer but that's the thing, if there was another mon getting gigaton hammer, it's clear that the mon is a problem since gigaton hammer is fine in tinkaton, but with last respects, the only thing that you can say is that every mon with it is broken And btw, seeing the move itself, it's clearly broken and most will agtee with that, 300 base power and you're always getting that if it's the last mon alive and still a lot if it got 2 or more dead allies
How can you say both mons that get it are broken if one literally isn't even available to play with yet? That's the whole reason that Last Respects wasn't complex banned, because the burden of proof for a complex ban requires that it be demonstrably broken on every Pokemon that has access to it, and one isn't available yet. You can talk about how good it might be, and you very well could be right, but the whole point of the matter is there is a tremendous amount of precedent set in what is required for a complex ban, and abridging that because we "think" something will happen would undermine the integrity of the tier.
Agree with the point on last respects, except... Basquelegion is significantly better than houndstone. If houndstone was banned, basq will be as well. I don't see basq with last respects lasting more than a week.
I think maushold is a better example. Technician population bomb is a 300 bp move with no setup, matching the likes of fully set up rage fist and last respects. However, while houndstone and ape were banned, mouse isn't even OU. But, the fish is definitely more of an ape than a mouse. I'd even go as far as to say it's the best of the four. Thus, either it will be banned, or last respects will be banned. There is no third option in my eyes.
Love the watch, i do feel kabutops should be in the b tier given barraskewda is in the A tier, it does have rocks, SD, knock off, rapid spin, aqua jet, flip turn and the like, it is effectively barraskewda frail, but hits like a truck as well. The dual typing hurts kabutops more, i am aware and makes the meta of SS more hostile towards it, but i do find it odd to see it in the C-tier
Regardless of basculegion getting swift swim or last respects (leaks cant be trusted, remember rising voltage koko and grassy glide bulu lol) it will for sure get wave crash since that move is literally the way to evolve white stripe basculin into basculegion. Wave crash exists BECAUSE of basculegion so its sad to see the liquidation calc instead of wave crash :/
I know Ludicolo is a perma PU mon but on monotype rain teams it is one of the best options to have. Hydro/Giga/IceBeam/Filler is a great tool to have, is neutral to both of water's weaknesses and can hit opposing waters and grasses quite hard while keeping itself healthy with drain. I find myself running Rain Dance in the last moveslot because of the longevity of the mon actually.
In regards to your hot take, it’s really hard to think of almost any Pokémon with even average stats that would not become broken or at least OU with Last Respects. If you gave the move to a dogshit mon like Cacturne it would immediately jump up like three tiers and probably settle in like UUBL at minimum
This isn't necessarily true for a couple reasons, first and foremost being speed tier. You could give last respects to Rampardos and it would still be dogshit in OU because it gets absolutely destroyed by any priority or anything that's even moderately fast. Sure, it might be marginally better than without and might jump up a tier (probably not two, definitely not three) but as a whole it wouldn't dramatically effect the tier in any meaningful way and therefore wouldn't be banworthy. Beyond that, your example isn't even a good argument because Cacturne gets demolished by like 2/3 of the current OU tier because it doesn't have the raw speed or attack to abuse the move. It doesn't OHKO any of the bulkier mons in OU unless it has Choice Band, but then needs Scarf to outspeed the faster mons in OU. And beyond that it gets completely shredded by pretty much any priority user in the tier. So using your logic I guess the move actually isn't that bad? Second and most importantly, you're neglecting the fact that how Rampardos, Cacturne, or literally any Pokemon that doesn't have Last Respects would theoretically do with access to Last Respects is wholly and completely irrelevant to whether or not the move should be banned. Smogon makes decisions based on suspect testing and council votes based on actual play, not just arbitrarily saying "if you gave X access to Y, it would be really good" because there's literally no functional way to test that against the current format.
The problem is that, if you're running them as shell smashers, then you're better off running them with their secondary abilities. Not being burned/paralyzed by things like prankster Sableye/Grimsnarl I think is a bit more valuable than having 800 speed. I might be wrong, though, depending on the meta, as maybe they might need the extra speed to deal with faster threats, but those threats live in OU and why would you be using a RUclips Gorebyss at that point?
@@andreescalona8902 Oh yeah, I'm not here to argue that they're good pokemon, just that imo they are a small step above scrubs like Seaking, Lumineon, and Luvdisc.
I will still never understand why the Pokémon with last respects get banned instead of the move itself. Like sure the council made it clear that it’s every part of a Pokémon that decides if it gets banned or not. But Pokémon with moody don’t get banned, it’s the ability itself that gets banned, what’s the difference here. If a Pokémon is made broken by one single tool, ban the tool instead of the Pokémon(like how they banned moody instead of the Pokémon that use it)
You cherry picked blissey, a Pokémon that would make absolutely zero use of last respects. If you gave it to mediocre to good Pokémon, even if they didn’t have stab on it, they would probably be too strong and be banned to Ubers. @Andre Escalona
@@randysuarez2849 I used the most obvious example. Give it to Rampardos, equip it with a choice scarf, it's still going to be RUBL at best because it's weak to priority, faster scarfers (of which there are many) and struggles to come in. Houndstone is bulkier, is only weak to the most unreliable priority in sucker punch (which he can abuse with will'o, as it's not choice locked into an attack like Ramp would be, while still keeping its speed in sand) and gets stab on it. Oh, you wanna talk about stab? Give it to Banette. Still RUBL. It'd turn into one of the best walkbreakers in the game, for sure, but Ubers? No shot. Regieleki, Iron Valiant and Chien-Pao are definitely going to object to that. The other dude mentioned Tinkaton, which is a more reasonable user. Pretty fast, decently strong (doesn't get stab on the move) and its neutral to a lot. I'll admit that could be enough to get the move suspect tested. We can make an argument now: Last Respect is a very powerful move that can easily snowball out of control in if used by a fast, decently bulky mon, specially in the late game where counterplay would be limited. I don't see this being an unanimous ban until Dragapult gets the move. However, I do agree with the sentiment of wanting to use Houndstone in PU instead of losing with it in Ubers. It's just that the argument to ban the move just isn't there yet. EDIT: About the Banette thing, maybe RUBL would be too low in the current meta, lmao. I'm sure it could get higher, or have a niche in OU. But even with a scarf, it's too slow for the current monsters running around. Houndstone with sandrush outsped all but Booster Energy Iron Valiant while running Adamant. That's a huge difference. Just wanted to make sure the point is clear.
Last respects is insane. Against dark types that resist ghost, it's *still* doing more damage than rain boosted waterfall. If a Gengar had Last Respects, we'd run it 252Atk Jolly and just drop any poison stab /or any other damaging move at all for that matter. Gengar would just be like last respects + destiny bond with another last respects Haunter in the back. There's no world where a 300 base damage move is balanced, even if it was only distributed on mons without any high attack stat.
Nah it was decent because smogon had implemented the metronome item wrong lol. Due to that it could sub and spam hurricane with exponentially increasing damage
There was a docs for the pokemon before the games release and all of them were correct so i would say basculegion will have swift swim instead of rattled
i really disagree with your take on last respects. to me it's like baton pass, there is no universe where it can be used without breaking a tier & centralizing everything around the pokemon that get the move.
"Getting my shit pushed in by floatzel in OU"
I'll take sentences I never thought I'd hear for 500 Alex
I am disjointed you didn't include magikarp. It is extremely potent underrated pick in gen 5 rain AG hyper offense teams.
Love the vid! There's something to be said about just bringing in Floatzel and knowing something is getting nuked, it just feels hella satisfying
Yeah right, it was one of those mons that in regular playthrough is pretty good but always underwhelming in competitive. Finally it makes sense competitively.
The Gastrodon in question:
but for real though the fact that nothing in the meta is immune to water this gen is kinda wild
@@colegaming5849 *cries in early gen 8*
@@colegaming5849 I mean water-absorb clodsire is pretty damn good imo
I think Golduck deserves a bit more credit than you gave it! True, it’s raw stats aren’t the best, but Specs Hydro Pump hits like a truck. It’s got a surprisingly good range of coverage moves too.
Specs surf is soo much better imo cus of hydro pumps pp and accuracy
If Golduck can perform as a swift swim sweeper it says more about how strong swift swim is rather than how good golduck is: Golduck has nothing going for it over other special or mixed swift swimmers. No secondary typing, no unusual coverage moves, a very middling 95 base special attack, no notable defensive utility... it's better than Limineon and Luvdisc but it's bottom of the barrel otherwise.
@@DanBottiglieri Well said, Golduck with Specs Pump in the rain hits hard, but what special attacking Swift Swimmer doesn’t have that trait in the rain? Almost all of them do
Basculegion and Mega Pert are literally s tier rain abusers, there is a reason why people fear basculegion-M even if its not legal yet (Last Respects.), and why mega swampert is the swift swim abuser of choice.
Golduck is unironically one of the best rain sweepers. It’s insanely good with nasty plot and perfect grass knot coverage. Golduck is not to be messed with. Having calcs like always ohko offensive ghoul, doing 60% to tera water garg, 80% to dondozo. It’s also got a little bulk, which is really useful in a meta where chien pao threatens choice locked rain sweepers so heavily. Seriously don’t knock the duck
Chien is a counter to floatzel?
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 234-276 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Barraskewda: 216-255 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not OHKOs unless it has an SD up or is banded.
@@AshenDust_ floatzel takes recoil, they all take hazards, a lot of the times they have to deal with life orb recoil too, not to mention tera dark
@@donkkut5003 Floatzel can click Liquidation, most of those teams run Iron Treads to hazard removal, and they run Band, not LO. Tera Dark is a problem, but they can click Aqua Jet, which is a 2HKO on Chien-Pao, chunks most mons, and causes Sucker Punch to fail.
@@AshenDust_ That’s best case scenario you’re talking about. The only reason you’d run float over barra is to click wave crash, so you’re more likely than not clicking it. Don’t forget rocky helmet doing 17% which makes chien ohko
yo don't diss the goatduck
I think it's the only effective Nasty Plot sweeper in the ranking?
sure it only got the move this gen, but it got it nonetheless and it's great~
It also got grass knot! No more donbozos, grass knit does a Min of 80%!
Last Respects and Gigaton Hammer are not remotely on the same power level. Gigaton Hammer is 160 power, Last Respects is 300 power. 160 is only 40 higher than the typical 120 options like Close Combat while 300 is so far beyond the realm of normal that there is 0% way to justify it existing. It's stronger than Explosion. You cannot outplay 300 power, and Gamefreak likely isn't gonna stop distributing it, the move has to go.
Glad to know that Freezai actually travelled to the future and checked if Basculegion will get Swift Swim in Scarlet and Violet! Such dedication to provide top-tier information for RUclips can't go unappreciated.
Thank you for the help! I really wanted to build a swift swim team in SWSH then SV came out and I couldn't bring my favorite pokemon and the star of my team concept into SV. So having someone lay out all the options is helpful.
I honestly don't think I'll ever be able to understand all the outrage behind the Houndstone ban, and it's honestly so frustrating that you feel like you have to tiptoe around the subject as a content creator.
So many people were outraged because the council "didn't let the meta settle" when Houndstone was banned yet simultaneously insist that Last Respects should be banned off a Pokemon that isn't even in the format yet. And they don't see how hypocritical that is...
Like yes, sure, on paper Basculegion is absolutely a better abuser of Last Respects than Houndstone. However, we're unable to predict what the meta will be like when (and after) Basculegion drops, and that context is essentially the most, if not the ONLY important thing when it comes to deciding what gets banned and what doesn't. It's entirely possible at that time the tier is full of viable normal types, tera normal users, sucker punch/shadow sneak users, etc. that make Last Respecs less of a threat; and if that happens, Houndstone would also get unbanned. It's also possible that it isn't the case and the move gets complex banned within a week. But the whole point is literally being able to justify that decision based on play metrics and a council vote.
The job of the council isn't to predict what will happen a year from now, it's to take the current OU format as it exists and keep it competitive. It sets a genuinely terrible precedent if the council were to simply ban something due to it "seeming" overpowered on paper months in advance of it even making it onto Smogon servers. With the exception of box legendaries (which at this point has become a historical precedent--and importantly IS NOT a complex ban) this doesn't happen and I see no justifiable reason why that should change now.
I'm sympathetic to the people who "liked" Houndstone and wanted to use it in OU, however the integrity of the tier/council comes first, without question.
If you disagree with me, ask yourself: on SW/SS Day 1, had Fishious Rend been complex banned--without even a single match of play--would you support that decision? Because there should only be one answer to that question.
Actually used a shiny swift swim seaking on rain teams in swsh with a choice band its a very fun pokemon to use especially with drill run ground coverage to surprise electric types
Please tell me which electric type is living a waterfall in rain
This is gonna sound crazy, but I think lumineon could be moved to c tier for it's utility to set up rain teams and it's access to tailwind, rain dance in worst case scenarios, u turn, and waterfall. It's not a sweeper whatsoever, but I think it can fid decently as a swift swim support.
Imagine they gave Lumineon the flying type and Hurricane and air slash lol
Rain teams already have swift swimmers, no need for tailwind (which is a p bad move in singles,) rain dance is already provided by your setter (who has the longevity to remain alive,) u-turn (many rain mons also have flip turn and other mons have u-turn), and it's not strong enough to make it worth it
@@Rose-ez7yn I'm not saying it's top tier, but I'd say it is better than dreadnaw. It's got decent special coverage in dazzling gleam, air slash, ice beam, hyper beam access to decent physical coverage in acrobatics, thief, giga impact/facade/take down, and U-turn. Along with getting chilling water when it didn't get scald previously which is a decent buff for it.
@@zaclittlejohn2701 drednaw gets shell smash and can be genuinely threatening. Those are all really odd coverage/utility options (hyper beam?) and you listed like 10 of them when lumineon only has 4 moveslots
Nathan did not know you played PokeMMO recently, I was more casual of a player, but the experience is definitely leagues up from the main games.
Personally I think float is a B tier. Don't get pissed at me let me explain. Float gets countered by bulky resists and water absorb mons on top of also getting it's pack smoked by priority. Float doesn't have very good coverage unlike the berricuda, and it's hard to get in safely bc of it's low defenses. Wave crash is crazy but it also hurts float back, and if float taps a blissey or anything with high hp he dies. Before you get more pissed at me for not saying berricuda monster is also bad bc he was nerfed, I'm going by gen 8 cudda and I like flip turn on that boy
Didn't Qwilfish have a nice in Gen 7 with rain? Swampert also can use Liquidation over Waterfall now if you're looking at things through Nat Dex
Yeah ur last respects take is egregious 😂. It’s simply an unbalanced move for singles.
Barraskewda became one of my fav mons from jt being a monster in random battles
Poliwrath is not that bad, Qwilfish has a niche in dpp ubers.
Great video, Id love to see one for all the speed boosting weather abilities as well as the weather setters
As a sub category niche weather abilities like harvest and ice body could also be fun to inclue
We will remember barraskewda as the goat of gen 8, but unfortunately it doesnt have flip turn right now, so that’s why floatzel is used a lot more.
How is it not better than floatzel
@@squirtondisgedo Skewda has more coverage, but the extra coverage has isn’t necessarily better. Skewda is not dead though, it probably still gets use. Floatzle is also a lot more brain dead to use.
Calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 155-183 (50.9 - 60.1%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 164-194 (53.9 - 63.8%)
(You will likely always Tera your floatzle)
@@marcol.126 ohh so it's more abt not having wave crash, cus doesn't barraskewda has higher attack and speed
Swift Swim Shell Smash Drednaw on my NatDex OU Rain Team can actually puts in some work there (alongside Mega Swamp), even after the rain is up
tho granted, it was partially cause of Teralization but still; a Shell Smash Swift Swimmer with 115 Atk, 74 Spe and ok bulk sounds absurd on paper
basculegion has wave crash, and a higher attack stat then floatzel, so it'll probably put float out of business as a rain breaker
Yeah, he's kinda like pert in some ways: not too great swift swim speed but compensated with super high attack. Sadly, its bulk is still pretty mediocre unlike pert, any scarfer can put a lot of damage on it. What I see is both being used together with another defensive core on a eain team. That's what I think will be the most effective.
@@Gspoink
Yeah but unlike pert he’s actually in the game and not just a generational gimmick
@@GravityIsFalling I make a mistake. I am said barra+bas or float+bas and didn't check my comment lmao
Rain dance stealth rocks aerodactyle omastar and kabutops all I need
We need a mono steel n normal team
His gen 8 steel team still works in natdex monotype, I pushed to like ~1400 with a pure gen 1-8 team. You could also try sample teams or just looking on showdown/smogon forums. He already said he doesn't really enjoy playing the current gen 9 monotype due to the lack of variety, so he probably won't make a video on this for quite some time.
Golduck
MFW NathanLikesChicken uploads a new youtube video->😊(i an filled with joyful whimsy)
Love these discussion/list videos, would watch more like it
wait so what does houndstone have that basculegion doesn’t? Just the bulk on houndstone is what makes it so much more broken? I really don’t think so
Idk why they love giving a bazillion speed to swift swim pokemon...
people are sleepin on tera water liquidation swift swim beartic - with a choice band that shit hits hard in the rain absolute sleeper + plus good coverage with crunch and icicle crash
It'd be really cool seeing you play pokemmo pvp
Good to see that finally Floatzel is a great mon on gen 9. Floatzel received what it deserved
Don't underestimate belly drum Poliwrath in rain
You forgot the best swift swimmer palafin-hero.
very wrong about golduck, otherwise good list
Anorith has 95 base attack, Rock-type STAB, and hits 546 speed in rain. Much to consider...
95 base isn’t very good
bro if golduck is in the idc tier how bad am I for getting swept by one
Floatzel reminds me a lot of what chi yu did before it got banned
Omastar gets shell smash, which under the rain is terrifying
I don't think the last respects take was good tbh
Yeah, both of the mons that get it are broken with it, they'te not balanced with less attack like tinkaton is with gigaton hammer but that's the thing, if there was another mon getting gigaton hammer, it's clear that the mon is a problem since gigaton hammer is fine in tinkaton, but with last respects, the only thing that you can say is that every mon with it is broken
And btw, seeing the move itself, it's clearly broken and most will agtee with that, 300 base power and you're always getting that if it's the last mon alive and still a lot if it got 2 or more dead allies
We'll see if people use basculegion in vgc. But I doubt it. They prob won't nerf if no one uses them to bring the linelight to GF.
How can you say both mons that get it are broken if one literally isn't even available to play with yet? That's the whole reason that Last Respects wasn't complex banned, because the burden of proof for a complex ban requires that it be demonstrably broken on every Pokemon that has access to it, and one isn't available yet.
You can talk about how good it might be, and you very well could be right, but the whole point of the matter is there is a tremendous amount of precedent set in what is required for a complex ban, and abridging that because we "think" something will happen would undermine the integrity of the tier.
damn nathan really sleeping on the homie surskit…
carracosta in idc breaking my heart
@NathanLikesChicken__ oh wow that sure is nathan!!! i'll deff click this link!
its hard to play against a well played beartic
There should be a luvdisc tier under idc
Agree with the point on last respects, except...
Basquelegion is significantly better than houndstone. If houndstone was banned, basq will be as well. I don't see basq with last respects lasting more than a week.
I think maushold is a better example. Technician population bomb is a 300 bp move with no setup, matching the likes of fully set up rage fist and last respects. However, while houndstone and ape were banned, mouse isn't even OU.
But, the fish is definitely more of an ape than a mouse. I'd even go as far as to say it's the best of the four. Thus, either it will be banned, or last respects will be banned. There is no third option in my eyes.
Is floatzel good in gen7 OU?
Quilfish has spikes and sd and is fireeeeee
Justice for Golduck!!!
Yoooo pokemmo shout out was cool af
Whats your thoughts on surskit
Love the watch, i do feel kabutops should be in the b tier given barraskewda is in the A tier, it does have rocks, SD, knock off, rapid spin, aqua jet, flip turn and the like, it is effectively barraskewda frail, but hits like a truck as well. The dual typing hurts kabutops more, i am aware and makes the meta of SS more hostile towards it, but i do find it odd to see it in the C-tier
Regardless of basculegion getting swift swim or last respects (leaks cant be trusted, remember rising voltage koko and grassy glide bulu lol) it will for sure get wave crash since that move is literally the way to evolve white stripe basculin into basculegion. Wave crash exists BECAUSE of basculegion so its sad to see the liquidation calc instead of wave crash :/
I know Ludicolo is a perma PU mon but on monotype rain teams it is one of the best options to have. Hydro/Giga/IceBeam/Filler is a great tool to have, is neutral to both of water's weaknesses and can hit opposing waters and grasses quite hard while keeping itself healthy with drain. I find myself running Rain Dance in the last moveslot because of the longevity of the mon actually.
Sleeping on Golduck
People are actually running Golduck because without Kingdra it's the best specs user. It's not bad.
Don't sleep on Omastar
Really discrediting swift swim/circle throw poliwrath and max speed beartic is also passable.
Don't know if you know but Drednaw got Shell Smash this gen! I think if you can get one off in the rain it's overall pretty good
You’re beautiful
I love Swift swim gorebyss with shell smashm i made many flee because she was fast. If you can pull it off, she is a beast.
pokemmo is the shit
As someone who’s wanted to make a mono water rain team work in showdown this is really putting things into prospective
I think with Swords Dance you can get some good work out of Qwilfish
Alright Nathan 1v1 me low tier mains in melee. My pichu v your roy
I liked it
Sub nasty plot Golduck has been on some good OU teams
Poliwrath goes nutty bro you take that back.
I would definitely LOVE a weather setter video
I would love to see one for slush rush mons.
Omastar has shell smash!
Floatzel my beloved
GO BIRDS
In regards to your hot take, it’s really hard to think of almost any Pokémon with even average stats that would not become broken or at least OU with Last Respects.
If you gave the move to a dogshit mon like Cacturne it would immediately jump up like three tiers and probably settle in like UUBL at minimum
This isn't necessarily true for a couple reasons, first and foremost being speed tier. You could give last respects to Rampardos and it would still be dogshit in OU because it gets absolutely destroyed by any priority or anything that's even moderately fast. Sure, it might be marginally better than without and might jump up a tier (probably not two, definitely not three) but as a whole it wouldn't dramatically effect the tier in any meaningful way and therefore wouldn't be banworthy.
Beyond that, your example isn't even a good argument because Cacturne gets demolished by like 2/3 of the current OU tier because it doesn't have the raw speed or attack to abuse the move. It doesn't OHKO any of the bulkier mons in OU unless it has Choice Band, but then needs Scarf to outspeed the faster mons in OU. And beyond that it gets completely shredded by pretty much any priority user in the tier. So using your logic I guess the move actually isn't that bad?
Second and most importantly, you're neglecting the fact that how Rampardos, Cacturne, or literally any Pokemon that doesn't have Last Respects would theoretically do with access to Last Respects is wholly and completely irrelevant to whether or not the move should be banned. Smogon makes decisions based on suspect testing and council votes based on actual play, not just arbitrarily saying "if you gave X access to Y, it would be really good" because there's literally no functional way to test that against the current format.
Would love a setters tier list!
go birds
I think gorebyss and huntail can go from idc to C, if only because of shell smash access
The problem is that, if you're running them as shell smashers, then you're better off running them with their secondary abilities. Not being burned/paralyzed by things like prankster Sableye/Grimsnarl I think is a bit more valuable than having 800 speed.
I might be wrong, though, depending on the meta, as maybe they might need the extra speed to deal with faster threats, but those threats live in OU and why would you be using a RUclips Gorebyss at that point?
@@andreescalona8902 Oh yeah, I'm not here to argue that they're good pokemon, just that imo they are a small step above scrubs like Seaking, Lumineon, and Luvdisc.
first
I will still never understand why the Pokémon with last respects get banned instead of the move itself. Like sure the council made it clear that it’s every part of a Pokémon that decides if it gets banned or not. But Pokémon with moody don’t get banned, it’s the ability itself that gets banned, what’s the difference here. If a Pokémon is made broken by one single tool, ban the tool instead of the Pokémon(like how they banned moody instead of the Pokémon that use it)
Well moody specifically has a long history and it is considered uncompetitive since years
Give Last Respects to Blissey: not broken at all.
Give Moody to Bidoof: terrorizes ubers.
It is not the same.
You cherry picked blissey, a Pokémon that would make absolutely zero use of last respects. If you gave it to mediocre to good Pokémon, even if they didn’t have stab on it, they would probably be too strong and be banned to Ubers. @Andre Escalona
Give last respects to tinkaton - banned to Ubers.
@@randysuarez2849 I used the most obvious example. Give it to Rampardos, equip it with a choice scarf, it's still going to be RUBL at best because it's weak to priority, faster scarfers (of which there are many) and struggles to come in. Houndstone is bulkier, is only weak to the most unreliable priority in sucker punch (which he can abuse with will'o, as it's not choice locked into an attack like Ramp would be, while still keeping its speed in sand) and gets stab on it. Oh, you wanna talk about stab?
Give it to Banette. Still RUBL. It'd turn into one of the best walkbreakers in the game, for sure, but Ubers? No shot. Regieleki, Iron Valiant and Chien-Pao are definitely going to object to that.
The other dude mentioned Tinkaton, which is a more reasonable user. Pretty fast, decently strong (doesn't get stab on the move) and its neutral to a lot. I'll admit that could be enough to get the move suspect tested. We can make an argument now:
Last Respect is a very powerful move that can easily snowball out of control in if used by a fast, decently bulky mon, specially in the late game where counterplay would be limited.
I don't see this being an unanimous ban until Dragapult gets the move. However, I do agree with the sentiment of wanting to use Houndstone in PU instead of losing with it in Ubers. It's just that the argument to ban the move just isn't there yet.
EDIT: About the Banette thing, maybe RUBL would be too low in the current meta, lmao. I'm sure it could get higher, or have a niche in OU. But even with a scarf, it's too slow for the current monsters running around. Houndstone with sandrush outsped all but Booster Energy Iron Valiant while running Adamant. That's a huge difference. Just wanted to make sure the point is clear.
Last respects is insane. Against dark types that resist ghost, it's *still* doing more damage than rain boosted waterfall. If a Gengar had Last Respects, we'd run it 252Atk Jolly and just drop any poison stab /or any other damaging move at all for that matter. Gengar would just be like last respects + destiny bond with another last respects Haunter in the back. There's no world where a 300 base damage move is balanced, even if it was only distributed on mons without any high attack stat.
y is mantin not in idc
Man it's pretty decent! Hurricane + rain boosted water attacks isn't the worst on specs. Was decent in pre home dlc iiirc
Nah it was decent because smogon had implemented the metronome item wrong lol. Due to that it could sub and spam hurricane with exponentially increasing damage
There was a docs for the pokemon before the games release and all of them were correct so i would say basculegion will have swift swim instead of rattled
i really disagree with your take on last respects. to me it's like baton pass, there is no universe where it can be used without breaking a tier & centralizing everything around the pokemon that get the move.
personally i disagree with the last respects thing, cause if you look at houndstone without it, it’s not good maybe uu at best
That’s not how smogon handles complex bans, though