PAX West 2017: the Giant Bomb Panel
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- We talk GOTY potentials, Sonic in 2017, and Dan's new love of Buffalo Wild Wings.
Note from the producer: At about 1:54, we had an issue with our audio recorder and had to switch to the on-camera mics. It is a little echoey, but should still be listenable for the last few minutes. Sorry about that!
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You can hear Austin Walker's laugh in the background and that's fucking great.
sometimes I feel like he was the only one laughing because you can clearly hear his over everyone else haha
Dan "Small Bladder" Ryckert has how many beers in front of him?
I live for these Sunshine debates.
I'm getting some sick thrill from watching Dan's opinion on Mario Sunshine get thrashed, it's like Karma ever since he said taco bell was better than actual Mexican food.
I used to be a captain at a BWW, you would honestly be surprised how stressful changing tv's can be during football season.
mario's little lasagna filled heart would be filled with sadness lasagna if he heard these guys arguing about a game that's supposed to make people happy in their pants lasagna.
I for one cant wait to watch the next episode of Steal My Sunshine after all of that!
Dan is smashed 1/3 of the way in. LMAO
I mean, the camera controls were inverted in N64 platformers too. They didn't figure out which way camera controls should go until later in general.
Side cam needs a tripod next time.
so thats what icbm stands for: Ice Cold Bahama Mama
People seem to have forgotten Resident Evil 7. This game is easily one of the best games out this year. Especially in VR.
Why does the audio get progressively worse in the last 10 minutes?
why is there a security guard defending the Q&A mic
vedicardi lotta weirdos out there
Black lodge... Is that an expression outside of twin peaks?
Ben reminds me of mclovin
Could not agree more with Dan that Sunshine is a fantastic game. I don't understand the hate that game gets one bit
I think it has a higher skill floor which is an uncommon problem for singleplayer games and it doesn't tutorialize utilizing a lot of its tricks well enough. they keep saying it feels bad or not tight and, while not as tight as galaxy or 64, but tons of others can show off it's possible to smoothly traverse that game
Geoff Smith it's from the era of games expecting you to read the manual.
i mean, I didn't read the manual when it came out
Jesus Christ, hire that last one fella that was asking those questions about giving them more money. Whoever he is, he is OOZING charisma. He belongs in front of a camera, his speech is goddamn IMPECCABLE.
Ice cold BMs for everyone.
I'm happy to see Dan call Alex on his shit with Sunshine, although Sunshine is an absolutely awful game.
No one noticed that Captain Picard was there!?!?
Thank you Abby and Giant Bomb!
Dan Ryckert is fucking awesome
Sweet!
39:00 I never paid much attention to the way each Sonic looked in Sonic 1/2/CD/3&K. I mean I could see they changed, but didn't think to hard on it. just like Pikachu over the years. I just searched and found these.
img02.deviantart.net/04f7/i/2016/234/e/5/sonic_standing_sprite_comparison_by_wiiuhighlights-daeus8y.png
orig01.deviantart.net/e7dd/f/2016/238/8/1/sonic_mania_foot_tap_sprites_comparison_by_wiiuhighlights-daf4i5w.png
"goddam companies nickle and diming us." "Hey how can I give you more money?" Because guys like this exist.
they're gonna pick pubg as goty. bootista. should be just best early access
FoXR The game is basically done at this point. Early access is a pretty useless label when a game has already sold 10 million and is the most popular thing on Twitch.
"yeah man I basically put it in, but came before, anyway I totally lost my virginity!"
They should include the game on their top 10. My opinion is that pubg isn't number 1. But they should consider it.
FoXR Can't fault that logic...
For me, it is the GOTY, hands down. Release vs Early Access is irrelevant.
Woof, that shakey cam is very shakey.
I don't understand how you can say Sunshine's worlds aren't memorable compared to Mario 64's. Sunshine gets a ton of mileage out of an interconnected world with worlds that are very distinct despite all being tropical and close. Meanwhile Mario 64 has a ton of levels that are literally the same theme with, like, no differences. There's two snow levels, they're the same except one has a mountain and the other has a Snowman. Very one note.
I will try to explain why a lot of people consider Mario 64 to be better than Sunshine, from my perspective.
Your criticism of the lack of visual theme in Mario 64 is not really fair, because Mario 64 was made in 1996, when large open detailed 3d worlds simply weren't possible. The launch Nintendo 64 carts also couldn't hold a lot of memory, so the game's asset pool had to be limited. Mario 64s worlds are interesting because of layout and design. They are impeccably and brilliantly designed considering the limitations. Yes, there were two snow levels, but they felt completely different to explore, and the game also has stuff like 3 visually distinct trippy one off slide levels that required experimentation to get too and are rewards for exploration and picking up visual cues in environments. The detail and visual themes were often implied, rather than explicitly shown, but it was often enough to infer a sense of wonder and mystery. Every level had gimmicks and hazards that were related in some way to the theme too. All sections of a level were utilized for an objective, and the levels themselves were interesting to explore, and there were often interesting observational puzzles you had to solve to collect the stars, in the context of the freedom of exploration. The gameplay focus of every level was unique, because it required you to use your move set differently. The designs of Sunshine's worlds often abstractly felt like large open areas with not a lot of z-axis traversal, with a few one off sections to them. There are a couple of exceptions: like Nokia Bay, but isn't the norm. If you boil it down to just exploration: Bianco Hills and Gelato Beach are the same type of vague, aimless playgrounds.
Sunshine's worlds were barely utilized for interesting objectives or platforming, and every objective is either obvious, or its obtuse, and not based on discovery at all. Mario 64 would sometimes show you the location of a star but the game wouldn't show you how to get it, or the only hint for discovering the star is in the title in the star selection screen. Sunshine points you to where you need to go and the answer to getting the shine is usually right there. There usually isn't a significant obstacle, or the obstacle is often so easily trivialized by fluud, you may as well have taken out those objectives. Sometimes the proposed challenge at the shine select screen is just a gateway to the secret level that is shown obviously on screen. Oftentimes this just means spawning into the level and walking towards entry into the real challenge. Where is the fun in that? It is just busy work. If you aren't going to encourage discovery of the secrets what is the damn point of making your way to the secret level entrances, when you could just spawn in those secret levels?
Generally, most of Sunshine's levels were so reliant on Fludd that most of the moment to moment gameplay had to be centered around stopping and spraying water on things, which significantly hampers your desire to explore. Mario 64 gave you the agency to fly through the levels with purpose and speed, and power ups like the wing cap just made you feel even more free. Traversal was based on your skill level and understanding of the layout of the levels. Because of FLUUD, every level in Mario Sunshine feel very similar, as a playground, and the pacing was bogged down and prevented you from experiencing the other gameplay elements. There is simply very little flow to the exploration. A lot of the failstates involve you having to find triggers in the environment to try again, or being forced to trek your way back to the starting line just to try the challenge again. Sunshine wastes your time so goddamn much.
The only memorable Sunshine level to me is the hotel, and this is because it was the level with the most exploration, the most player agency, the most observational puzzle solving, and the least amount of busywork. The best platforming sections in in Sunshine were completely cordoned off was relegated to secret levels, which are entirely linear, and the game had the gall to double dip on every single one of them for stars. Mario 64 only double dipped a couple of times, other than the 100 coins for each level, and each repeated section was designed to encourage you to see the original level/challenge in an entirely new light. Mario 64 also broke up the traditional open levels with 3 challenge stages where you would fight Bowser at the end, and he would become increasingly difficult. The best that Sunshine offers on that front is the one Bowser junior fight at the end.
Sunshine's biggest sin though is that it, in addition to the level design being less interesting, it also has less real objectives to complete to get shines than Mario 64's 120 stars, despite the sequel not being made with the same limitations as the original. Sunshine makes up the difference of distinct objectives by making you collect blue coins in each world to reach the 120 shines, instead of creating a few more new worlds. If the blue coins existed on top of the original 120, it wouldn't be a major issue, but its an extremely noticeable in lieu of actual level parity. It also uses the same camera look trick for a one off cool secret level in Mario 64 as a method to gain entrance to one of the main levels in Sunshine. Reusing that trick in place of a new puzzle is extremely disappointing,in the context that it shows the inherent lack of creativity in comparison to its predecessor. Now I am not trying to say that Sunshine is an aggressively bad game. It has a lot of charm, it was beautiful and still is to a large degree, but it is not the amazing genre-defining experience that Mario 64 was, not in a million years.
Banjo-Kazooie came out two years after Mario 64 on the same hardware. For comparison here is a blow by blow as to what is in B-K's snow level.
-A giant Snowman
-An Xmas Tree
-Talking Xmas Lights
-Cozy Cabins
-Giant Xmas Presents
-Malicious Snowmen
-A Xenophobic Walrus
-Sledding
-Sentient slush that warns you not to go in freezing water
-A Deadbeat Dad Who Hasn't Gotten Xmas Presents For His Kids (Literally the plot of Jingle All The Way)
Also you enter the world through an advent calendar.
Mario 64 used a cart with 8 mb of memory. Banjo Kazooie used a cart with 48 mb. This is significantly more than Mario 64. Also, 2 years is a long time in the early 3d era, in which development tools for 3d games made large strides of progress. It should be obvious why maybe BK could create more detail in its environments, with more complex interaction than Mario 64. However, Mario 64's basic design is still good and the game had a unique charm because the designers at Nintendo at the time knew how to work within the limitations they had. If you want a more direct comparison, try Ocarina of Time matched with Banjo Kazooie as they came out the same year. They are pretty comparable in scale. Also, Banjo Kazooie is better than Mario Sunshine. So, I don't know what you were trying to prove other than the fact that Mario Sunshine is even more disappointing in the context that the game didn't utilize the capabilities of the gamecube to make significant advancements in scale or complexity. Remember that this was two years after Banjo Tooie which was on a less powerful system, yet the scale of the levels and overworld were similar.
Classic Ryckert
Is there a way Ben Pack can stop being an uncouth monster and tuck his collar back into his sweater thank you
Jason looks weird without a beard
For fuck sake did Muhammad Ali film the close up shots.
Super Mario Sunshine is a good game. It has flaws, but I like it way more then Super Mario 64.
Yay Alex! :D
My GOTY is Nier Automata.
Lost Planet 2 was rad though :/
Never got it to run on my PC. It just wouldn't load. In that day and age.
Luigi's Mansion is better than SMM.
Nier Automata is great, but the original and all the media around it is better.
PUBG is shit.
Sunshine is fun, the Galaxy games are meh.