Kim F. Kjær Yeah totally. It doesn’t change the fact that they’d be great allies with the same mindset. I really hope Lyanna Mormont will play a bigger role in Season 8.
If Ser Barristan was alive, I don’t think that Dany would’ve lost the Tyrells and the Dornish. That’s the thing with Tyrion, he has a great mind for politics and enjoys it, but he’s not a war strategist or a general.
Actually, the way I see it, Tyrion's plans were pretty solid. To say that losing Highgarden and Yara's fleet were his failure and lack of foresight would be discrediting the Lannisters' cunning. Jamie was able to produce a counter-strategy by merely anticipating his little brother's likely moves. Tyrion grew up knowing that Casterly Rock was his family's main base of operations. It doesn't seem he was told before leaving that the family castle was no longer valuable, as he was only on a need-to know basis from the way we've observed his family treat him. Secondly, The loss of the iron fleet was more of a negligence from Yara and Theon's part. They, more than anyone, should have known that their uncle was hunting them down, and should have prepared accordingly. It wasn't Tyrion's or Dany's job to be on top of that.
I don’t think Tyrion has a lack of war strategies. Yuron, I still can’t work out how the hell his ships were throwing fire at Yara’s fleet (anyone??)! And Castilly Rock, the plan was good, but turns out Jaime and Cersei had their own plan on the go at the same time. An I ask what you mean by if Ser Barristan were alive Dany wouldn’t have lost the Tyrell’s and Dornish? Not arguing, I’m genuinely curious to hear what your thoughts are on that.
I always thought it be cool if Ser Barristan and Ser Davos teamed up or barristan becoming Davos’s teacher and teaching him how to fight they would have made a great team
I understand both Daenerys and Jon. Put yourself in Dany's shoes and you'll realize Jon seems like a crazy rebel, son of a lord who was part of the Rebellion that killed her dynasty and tried to kill her multiple times.
Exactly! And in Jon's mind, Daenerys is out of her mind to demand that he bend the knee just because she told him to. Both are right, given their respective journeys. They are also wrong to expect each other to automatically give in to the other's demands. I love them both (my 2 favorites), but let's face it, Jon's story (by his own admission) is hard to take seriously, and he should've had something more concrete to offer (though, he probably feels preservation of mankind IS the offer. ). Meanwhile, Dany should've acted less entitled and condescending, and maybe she should've held off on the knee bending. They both need more allies, and can't afford more enemies.
I understand Jon more than Daenerys. Some crazy rebel? He is refusing to pledge his loyalty to the daughter of the person who killed his grandfather, uncle, and sentenced his "father" to death because of his own madness. I'd tell her to go fuck herself too.
Dany's line of "People thought dragons were gone forever but here they are. Perhaps we should be examining what we think we know" was to show that she is starting to believe him or at least starting to question its truth. She's not that hardheaded. She only acts tough as a defense mechanism to not let people walk all over her like in the past.
Ahh! I waited so many years for Daenerys and Jon to meet! I was ridiculously excited for it. About Daenerys in their first meeting: you have to understand that Daenerys told Tyrion to tell Jon to come and bend the knee. She didn't have any idea prior that he was going to be approaching her with this whole new threat that many people don't believe in. And she probably expected that he was there to bend the knee, otherwise why was he there? And he refused, dismissed her claim, and wanted her help. They're both stubborn AF and I love them, but Daenerys was the one who gave Jon something in the end without really believing him.
"I mean no offense, Your Grace, but I don't know you." One of my favorite lines of the series, largely because it is the crux of the dilemma in this meeting. They do not know one another. Neither is going to give an inch until that happens. Their lives, to this point, have taught them both hard lessons in this regard. And, just like Jon and Daenerys, the audience is going to have to wait for them to work this out.
Difference is Jon Snow didn't ask her to bend the knee. He put his life on the line to come there to work with her and form an alliance. She could have burnt him alive the moment he got there and he still went anyway
@@vikingjedi573 well Dany told Tyrion to invite him there to bend the knee and Tyrion did not mention it in his letter. Tyrion knew exactly why Jon was being invited. Obviously, "come South to bend the knee" would probably come off more threatening and Tyrion knowing people better would be like, "no that's not going to work", but he still did this. I mean, you can tell the writers did this because they want to show the two stubborn good guys go head-to-head and create animosity in the audience. It worked.
@@iloveyourunclebob yes but jon should still expect this to happen given tyrion specifically says "join us" and sansa also makes the point that she has come to reclaim the seven kingdoms and the north is one of them, although tyrion doesn't say bend the knee jon shoul at least expect it
Nobody in this show believed in the White Walkers until they actually saw them for themselves. Ned didn't believe the deserter in the first episode that he beheaded when he told him he saw White Walkers. Dany has just arrived and you expect her to believe a stranger that an army of dead men are coming? Tyrionne doesn't even believe him.
I wish the show would have left in all of the discussions from the letters that came from Castle Black and Thorne bringing the wight arm south that basically rotted on the way down to kings landing. There are so many little discussions about nobody believing anything coming from Castle black about white walkers that I think it would have helped everyone understand Dany's side better if they would have kept those conversations in. The only other person in the entire Seven Kingdoms that believes them is Stannis and that's only because of Melisandre. The Queens men at castle black, really melisandre's men, don't even believe the brothers of the watch and make comments about it.
@@ChrisLamia Tyrion is a good lad; I think he believes Jeor Mormont more than Jon at this moment; Tyrion was clearly shaken when he saw such an honorable, brave and good man like Jeor act truly afraid and warn him that the monsters above the wall were real. I don't think he believed back in S1, but it's easy to see the memory of that conversation pairing with Jon now to shape his opinion of "oh fuck the myths are real"
@@someshghumaria4512 Jon saw the dragons so he would have believe at that time she wasn't lying in the letter she sent to Winterfell, but she did not see "the death" so, you gotta see to believe otherwise you would fall in everything people say and that would doom you
Jon and Dany meeting is one of my fav scenes that D&D have had to come up with. Both of their perspectives are understandable and they're so similar in their hotheadedness, it was brilliant watching such compelling characters butt heads.
Alex Nicole Totally agree. This was masterful writing. I’m always surprised when people react to it like “why is s/he behaving like this?!”. It would be totally unrealistic for them to have been any other way. They’re both finding their way and struggling to figure out the right course. I loved it too x
Scriptonite Reacts right, and I mention it because so many people are quick to blame anything a character does on “bad writing” in this season when they do something that viewers don’t want them to do. It would be unrealistic if everyone just got along and there was no conflict!
@@alexnicole89 That's funny actually, because I never liked it that much. I found Dany's personality not to be in line with what she has always been, and Jon's explanation quite rushed and bad-presented. I was always very sorry that I didn't like their first meeting, so I'm relieved and happy someone did! It's kind of rare to find such positive thoughts about season 7 :D
The Dark Side of J to each their own! Something I’ve noticed is that outside of the internet, all the people I know in real life that watch the show enjoyed the season overall. I don’t think it’s the strongest but I think it gets shit done and that some (not all) of the major complaints lack nuance
+Alex Nicole If you're limiting this to scenes D&D come up with, then yeah I guess this is a pretty good one. If you open up the rest of GoT, the scene isn't that good... I think my favorite scene D&D has come up with has to be Theon's scene this season. You know the one. Absolutely amazing. It felt like something from the early seasons. It built up a range of emotions within me all within 10 minutes and made me literally say "Wow, I really like Theon". Until that moment, I didn't really feel anything besides pity for Theon, but after that episode I really started rooting for him.
Yes, Dany is supposed to be purposefully frustrating here. Although, justified in it. We find her frustrating because we know Jon is telling the truth and we've known it for 7 seasons. Daenerys doesn't know anything about the White Walkers. Jon is a stranger to her who is asking her to take her army up there while also giving her nothing in return. From her point of view, I do find her justified in her stance with this episode, even though it is slightly off putting to the viewers. They both didn't handle their meeting the best they could have - Dany with her "I'm the queen" and Jon's refusal to give her what he wants in return of getting what he wants. But, I also can't blame Dany about the "bend the knee - I'm the queen" when Aegon the conqueror did the exact same thing. He gave the houses the opportunity to bend the knee and if they refused, he would bring his army and dragons with them, some houses were reduced to nothing after this. It's the mentality of a conqueror. She isn't acting that differently then she did in Slaver's Bay - it's just this time with a character we actually care about being Jon. Anyway, love the reaction! Keep up the good work! Can't wait for the next episode, which is my favorite for the season! Also, please make episode 4 two parts!
Everybody needs to read this who in the world will give you their army to fight someone you don't know exist and it sounds like a freaking lie and have nothing in return, fuck off all of the butthurt are snow's fans who don't like when someone tells no to jon
Let us remember that Stannis answered the call to help the Night's Watch (and basically save the realm), where no other king or lord did. That's being King. If Daenerys is the Queen, she has to look out and care for her realm sooner or later.
Steef Lee And somehow no one complained when Katelyn travelled from Winterfell to King’s Landing in next episode? First episode ever, Cersei and Jaime are in KL, then in Winterfell within the same episode.
"Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." what an amazing line. I think you need to put yourself in Daenerys' shoes. She's in the position of a conqueror to get back the 7 kingdoms and some dude who calls himself king in the north is talking about dead men behind the Wall? I mean, i would send him to an asylum. She needs to get allies and quickly, instead she's losing everyone and this Jon Snow wants her to come North and fight an undead army and ignore the Iron Throne.
And she didn't rat out LF, wishing upon wish that he will end the Lannisters somehow. And if he ends up on the Iron Throne she gives zero f... about it. Poor Jamie. His father, Cersei, Blackfish, Olenna.. a man can only take so much, body & soul...
I don't buy this. She's seen dragons, warlocks making clones of himself and creating fake realities in the house of the undying. The King in a land she doesn't know has been chosen to rule the North, why would they choose the leader if he's delusional and imagines dead men coming? It's not that farfetched in the context of this show really.
@@allbies Dragons have been extinct for 100 years that's nothing. They're not THAT special. A little magic is common in the world so warlocks with parlor tricks and witches with curses are possible if little hard to believe for someone who hasn't experienced it but a zombie army led by something called the Night King? Sorry that's a bit far fetched. Especially from a guy who told her basically to fuck off and in the next breath that she needs to pack her bags and go North to help him. BTW she probably thinks they chose him because he won the battle against the Boltons.
Chikina to be fair Dany has dragons like she said no one believed in dragons until she brought them back...Dany’s offended because she knows she’s not the rightful heir.
Hate Cersei all your want but Lena Headey's acting skills are amazing. That scene is one of my favorite. The way she lets you see a glimpse of vulnerability when asking 'why did you do that?' is everything
That moment KILLS ME. She’s so small and almost child-like in that moment, and Lena acts it so subtly and beautifully and impactfully...it’s stunning. She’s beyond brilliant.
I don't understand why are you so surprised about Danny not trusting Jon. Why would she? She doesn't know him plus she hasn't seen white walkers. Ned didn't believe that guy in s1e1 and many didn't believe she had dragons, not until they saw them. Also they live in a patriarchal society where women usually don't rule and all women that do rule(in a way) have this "tough" attitude: Lady Mormont, Cersei, Yara, Lady Olenna and even Sansa is like that now.
Nobody said that she should trust Jon (yet), and if they did, I’d say they’re naive or the minority and not the general consensus. Where she is right to be criticized is expecting a King to “bend the knee” to someone he doesn’t know, a descendant of an overthrown ruler AND house that’s no longer in power in the West, all while he isn’t even “declaring himself king”, but rather taking the position from someone else who HAD already been declared king in the north. The “faith” was already BROKEN between House Stark and House Targaryen when her father burned Lord Stark and Brandon Stark alive. There was no faith left to break. So what’s Daenerys really going to do if someone doesn’t “bend the knee” to her? Bring her dragons to some peaceful Keep that’s minding their own business with tens of thousands of innocent people in that castle and keep and burn them all with dragonfire until someone agrees to “bend the knee”? It’s pathetic that she even asked. I’m a cold hearted person, so it likely doesn’t matter, but if I was the lord of Winterfell and King in the North, I wouldn’t bend the knee based on such a threat and if she wants to burn all of us and have no North left for god-knows-what-asinine-reason, let her. I’d submit myself to the dragon fire as soon as I knew there wouldn’t be a king or lord in line to take over my position and “bend the knee” to justify people taking power through force. Burning the Red Keep filled with people who keep trying to kill you? Necessary. Burn the North/Winterfell with people who are just happy ruling themselves and going about their business farming and harvesting before winter comes because you have some obsession with ruling? Absolutely pathetic. I love Dany, but her obsession with “bending the knee” is absolute pointless.
Jonathan George - What circlejerk? Men have always hated Dany (that’s an observation, not an anti-male statement; I’ve also never understood why *women* tend to hate Margaery. I love both characters. 🤷🏼♀️) The big unwarranted circlejerk is over another female character. It didn’t happen until the HBO series, so my only guess is that it’s due to that one being put into awful situations that happen to OTHER characters in the books.
And it's funny how Jon Snow comes along: I won't bend the knee AND I need your help and some Dragonglass BUT I won't give you anything in return. It annoys me that because Dany is hesitant to believe anything and trust a complete stranger right away is something that gets criticized instantly.
Why should he bend the knee? The north is nothing like the south culturally. If they don’t want to be ruled by southerners then why would they want to be ruled by foreign invaders?
Liam Williams she isn’t a foreign invader as she was born in dragonstone. And winterfell/the north regardless is still part of the seven kingdoms. Doesn’t matter he comes in demanding for help and things that he needs, but he won’t bend the knee for her. First time meeting, and he’s asking her for things when he comes to her castle, her home. She hasn’t watched 7 seasons like we have and built a connection with Jon. This is her first meeting, things he’s saying that she doesn’t believe, can’t blame her, as Jon didn’t believe in dragons. She wants all people in the 7 kingdoms to be loyal to her. Otherwise she feels she’s not queen if everyone doesn’t follow her. Makes sense. She wants to be a good leader, that is why she helps people, if she sees people in danger, or in need of help, she will act. But if she doesn’t believe something and doesn’t think it’s real, why would she lend a hand to someone she just met? But once she believes, she will help with all her power and you know that
Micah Harrison she’s not foreign but her entire army is. I know where she’s coming from but I’m explaining why Jon wouldn’t bend the knee. Suppose you have to come from a country that has been ruled by culturally different people to understand. Us Irish we’re conquered and oppressed for centuries by people who were nothing like us. Which is why I relate to the likes of Jon and Robb more than most characters in the show.
Liam Williams spoiler... He ends up bending the knee so 🤷♂️ But as of right now, he can’t come up into her home with request and things he needs from her, when he won’t do 1 thing she asks of him
Dany is doing nothing that EVERY other person who claimed the throne did. Stannis told Jon to bend the knee too. Robert demanded the same, Joffrey, Cersei, Ramsey. Truth is what she is doing is what EVERY ruler demands. Ruling is about respect. And if you don’t bend a knee then you are not the boss. Just like a general. You salute. Period!
Why should he bend the kney lol. They both needed each other, U are biased dude. Jon was fighting for mankind unlike Dany who just wanted the Throne. Jon doesn't give Shitt about King and Queen. and as he said if he had bent the knee, his ppl would've lost faith in him. U don't understand these things
@@Oliver-es6qv both jon and daenerys acted reasonably, though. jon knew nothing about daenerys just as daenerys knew nothing about jon. why would they show a stranger that much respect? EDIT: you know, you sound a little biased, too. maybe don't criticize someone for sounding biased, it's hypocritical.
@@pomegranatejuice5139 I think its because this is the start of where Dany has completely changed. before she used to be merciful. she gave people a choice and opportunities to live. now its just bend the knee or die for everyone she encounters.
@@aya-_-3045 it's because these people won't give her the choice. She was going to be assassinated when she was just a baby just because she was related to the mad king
Dany has literally always been the "I'm the queen, I'm the queen, I'm the queen, I'm the queen" type, but no one ever really noticed until this episode because she was always shoving that in people's faces that no one liked.
I think the pillage of High garden was planned before Cersei carried it out. If you think back to season two, when Tywin was visited by Littlefinger and he talked Tywin into an alliance with them, Tywin responded with, 'they had rebelled against the Crown' and Littlefinger retorts, "I'm sure you can punish them later..." To which he smiled. Think about it. The Lannister's gold had dried up. They were broke. Highgarden was the next richest house...much like House Reine was. I think it was Tywin's end game the whole time.
I could totally see that especially when Tywin was like, alright give the northern girl to the Imp we want Marjorie as Queen because her daddy is stupid rich.
Exactly! I liked so much this episode because the Jon-Daenerys interaction was believable and faithful to the characters. All those irrelevant fanboys and fangirls who wanted an alliance from day 1, or event a "love at first sight" shit, they don't get what GOT is about....
@@arismaiden6457 Exactly!! I hoped they would've gone that way throughout the entire season but Jon and Dany just fall in love and it's just not believable and I still (after the finale) dont feel like they belong together. So the relationship is pretty badly built.
@@kledi3817 Uuuh I know man, but don't spoil upcoming stuff. It's kinda predictable I know, but I m sure they don't want to know anything about future episodes. But I totally agree with your point.
honestly though i don't blame daenerys for wanting him to bend the knee. like yeah, he doesn't know her, but he's also asking for her help. plus, she doesn't believe that the white walkers actually exist so it makes sense she wouldn't be eager to help someone who's not even willing to bend the knee to her. as a viewer though (with the information we know), i do see that its more important that she helps jon than have him bend the knee.
That's the key for me with this conversation. If you are coming to ask for help from someone and you are also declaring yourself King In the North, what is she supposed to do? I kind of felt like both their responses towards each other were reasonable. And honestly, in the end, she gave more than she got...at least in that very moment.
@@Keeks33 Uhm she is also declariing yourself Queen of Westeros because... reasons. She thought she was gaining a big part of the kingdom, he arrived expecting a negotiation.
I agree. Jon has the bigger goal in head, he doesn't even consider Daenerys' war against Cersei, and the "importance" it can have (to her). He doesn't realize that she built her entire life to get there, and that, tbh contrary to people in the North, Dany never grew up listening to the tales on The White Walkers. He's basically asking Daenerys to take all of her army and march North instead of South where Cersei is. For all she knows, he could be a spy working for Cersei, trying to weaken her- no matter what Tyrion says, especially considering that at that point when they're meeting, Tyrion just made a critical mistake that cost Daenerys her fleet. Yes it's frustrating to see them bickering about power, just like it was annoying to see all these people in KL ignoring the Night's Watch messages during all the previous seasons. But tbh that's the point of the show, and that's what make the stakes higher. It makes for better drama, for sure...
@Dularr i agree, it would be the wrong decision for the north to march on kings landing, and im not saying that he necessarily SHOULD bend the knee. just that i can see why SHE would want him to, given that he's asking her for help to fight something she doesn't believe in and they don't trust each other yet. but yes, i also 100% see why he doesn't want to bend the knee. they both did nothing wrong, in my opinion.
I feel like no one ever puts themselves in Dany’s shoes in this situation. Why the hell should she believe him. She’s defensive because she knows it will take a lot for Westeros to accept another Targ ruler let alone a woman. She doesn’t know Jon. She’s never heard about anything about him before Melisandre. She knows he’s Ned’s son and was probably raised to hate her so she’s instantly on the defensive, hence why she took their weapons when they got there.
Dany not believing the army of the dead is the same with nobody believing dragons are back until they SEE it themselves. It just seems like fantasies, especially from a stranger you just met who is technically declaring independence from you. EDIT: 29:58 yup, you hit the nail on the head
Jon is basically asking Danny to give up her fight and go north to help him, someone she doesn't know, with something she doesn't believe and he can't prove. Such a big request and he doesn't even want to bend the knee in return. He wants her to let all go for him but he's not prepared to do the same for her. They are both stubborn! Neither of them want to compromise but both want something from the other. 😒 I guess they'll have to learn how to compromise, just like Tyrion did by asking Danny to give Jon something. Jon's turn now.
Actually Jon wanted to be allies with Dany. Dany just wanted to rule over him. Daenerys kept questioning Jon and kept making remarks at him but she still expected him to give up his people. Where's the logic?
Saving Jorah was Sam's way of honoring Jeor, who made sure Sam survived for the most part beyond the wall. "You may be a coward, Tarly, but you're not stupid." Jeor knew that while Sam was not a fighter, he was smart and if they had any chance against what was coming, they would need that, too.
Even if you are against Cersei, you have to give Jaime some props for his great strategic move to leave a skeleton crew at Casterly Rock and let it be taken so he could march the majority of the Lannister army to Highgarden to neutralize the Tyrell army, take Highgarden and the resources of the Reach which will allow them to pay back the Iron Bank! Jaime is actually a damn clever commander. He took Riverrun back without sacrificing Lannister and Tully men last season and now has pulled a genius tactical move to get the upper hand over Dany's alliance... and even made sure Lady Olenna didn't get a brutal death because he's actually an honorable guy and not evil like his sister.
@@michonneokoye4990 Yes and Jaime learned from his mistake and applied it in an even larger capacity. All great generals learn lessons from defeats and other skilled commanders that they have experience against or record of. The fact that he learned from his season 1 defeat (though arguably this had less to do with him making a mistake as Robb cleverly and intentionally sending the Lannister scout back with wrong intelligence) and adapted is what makes him a good military leader now. He has shown that he has grown to take the role of a commander seriously and is actually very good at it now that he can no longer be the best warrior on the battlefield.
That's why I love all Lannisters (Cersei included). They aren't the strongest, they don't have superpowers, they are not popular with the people, but they still manage to get ahead of the game because of their wit and unpredictability. It helps that they have awesome actors too.
@@DreamOfTheRebel I actually agree that overall the Lannisters are the most interesting and deep characters and have by far had the best actors of all of the Houses.
Messandai is such a bad ass Would you please hand over your weapons with the coolest grin of all times on her face , and her interaction with Davos is perfect 🤣 she brushed him super smoothly he didn't even feel it until it happened lol , she knows exactly what to do and say and that is super admirable , hats off to Nathalie Emmanuel she nailed her role and goes without saying Ser Davos Liam Cunningham 🖤😎🙏
I hate when people get angry over this meeting. This is what was realistic. Why in the world would Dany believe a person she didn't know?! And why would Jon bend the knee to someone he didnt know?! That's why people getting mad over the meeting is so stupid. SPOILERS: But how soft they speak to each other later on in the season totally makes up for it :)
I know im late to the party buttttt. I hate this scene because Danny has completely changed. Before she gave them a choice now its bend the knee or die. No choice. She'll give slavers an opportunity to live but not the people she so desperately wants to rule over.
exactly. She started off as merciful and forgiving and about giving people a CHOICE to follow her. She invited john out of nowhere cause she heard he was a king and now there can not be a king of the north cause it's thetening. He told her he does not want anything to do with the iron throne haha. @@des_18
Jaime is really the strategist that is countering Tyrion's war moves. Cersei is the schemer and politician and Jaime is the military mind with Randyll Tarly as his ranking general.
J.F.L. Bousquet The problem is that Tyrion did not expect Euron and Jaime’s strategy. The strategy that Jaime used tricked the brilliant Tywin himself, so of course Tyrion has no real experience to predict it. I think that people expect so much of Tyrion because he is smart in politics. He has no hindsight and can’t counter-act factors that he doesn’t know.
@@Yousefabuljadayel - Tyrion probably couldn't have known about Euron's armada, although I would argue an armada that size should have been easily seen and scouted from Dragonstone as they were sailing in to Blackwater Bay. However that fail happened, it was on the Greyjoys, not Tyrion... There's really no excuse for what just went down at Casterly Rock though. Tyrion was master of coin for a time in King's Landing; he had to have known the mines at Casterly Rock were tapped. Even if successful, this was just an incredibly poor part of the plan because the risk/reward just doesn't add up to a net gain if the mines are dead; and now the Unsullied are surrounded in the heart of Lannister bannermen country... this problem was foreseeable and should have been avoided, in my opinion. I just don't view Tyrion as a war time strategist. Even at the Battle of the Blackwater, his plan was effectively Cersei's plan as she was the one who started stockpiling wildfire in preparation for Stannis' attack; Tyrion just pulled the trigger.
You shouldn't forget that Daenerys doesn't know Jon Snow as we do AND she tries to appear strong. If any male character acted like Dany, you wouldn't be as annoyed with them as you are with her. Btw Jon did a poorly job in convincing them about the White Walker threat. Just assumed that they believe them.
@@ResFantasyfan yeah but that's after this meeting when he's saying "why can't you believe me? if I heard, oh wait. nevermind, I get it now. I wouldn't believe me either." He did go in there assuming they would believe him and didn't realize that it was unbelievable until that talk with Tyrion. They literally show him realize it in that scene.
I don't get why people expect Dany to just believe Jon. If somebody came to me as I was preparing to own everyone with my 3 large dragons and said "Hey, I know you want to rule over the kingdom and my kingdom is part of it, but I won't bow to you and hey, we should focus on fighting these evil dead ice-zombies instead" I wouldn't believe them either. Dany doesn't know Jon, she's never heard of white walkers and unlike with the dragons, there was never anything that suggested to her that they exist(ed) except for the word of a king who will be, as she says, in rebellion against her :D
Dany knows how frustrating it is to have something yet have people not believing them. She knew exactly how Jon felt because she had been in his exact position before. And why did Dany expect Jon to give up the north? Ever since they met, she keeps questioning Jon and keeps making remarks at him yet still expects him to give up his people. Where's the logic? Jon also wanted an alliance, Dany didn't.
@@aleenawaqar909 you are right at some points, but jon fails at making this alliance fair enogh, we are talking about not only taking your army but what she considers "her children" to a war where they could die, all of what you worked so hard to get, Jon should have made clear what the alliance would benefit both parts, she helps in the war againts the death and Jon then helps her to get the iron throne but it was no mention in this scene, what i saw was "you have to help me!" and nothing more...
This is what happens when one side has an experienced general (Jaime Lannister) and the other side doesn't (Jorah Mormont is out of commission). An experienced general is an invaluable asset to have in war, Jamie sacrificed one chess piece to take three from the opponent. Brilliant. Tyrion might be clever and well-read, but he is severely lacking experience when it comes to being a general. A deed for the Book of Brothers, perhaps.
Well, for all of Tyrion's well-readness, he didn't read Grand Maester Ch'Valathan... Ch'Valatesh.. Ch'Valteesh.. Ch'Vyalthan's book on the Great Sieges of Westeros.
Dany doesn't really need Jon to be honest , she had The Unsullied, The Dothraki, The Tyrells, The Ironborn , The Martells , The Second Sons and all the slave cities she freed but Tyrion underestimated Cersei now she lost allies because they wanted to play it safe. Dany should've hit Kings Landing hard like Yara said!
Fritz Matthew I agree. Dani wins when she’s a dragon. Every clever scheme of Tyrion’s fails miserably and costs her. And let’s not forget, his wonderful reign as Hand in Kings Landing ended in his near-assassination and ousting! And Tywin won the Battle of Blackwater Bay by bringing in the Tyrell’s last minute as the Lannister army were about to be crushed by Stannis. I love Tyrion to bits. But people really overstate his abilities 😂
I think there is a bit of unfairness thrown towards Daenerys in this episode. She has no reason to believe in The White Walkers: 1. She lived in Essos (where the White Walkers are never discussed) her entire life, and she even said in this episode that she never received a formal education. 2. There’s often an argument that because Daenerys has dragons she has to believe in White Walkers. I disagree. Although most people haven’t seen dragons, there is proof that dragons existed. There are skulls from dead dragons and there is historical validation of dragons. Beyond the north the White Walkers are nothing but a myth. Daenerys is in a very tough spot just like Jon. She brought thousands of people from Essos and promised them she would burn their enemies and keep them safe. She’s also dealing with people that almost immediately demonize her or write her off. And she has NO possible way to validate the existence of the White Walkers. People should cut her slack. And also in regards to her having to use her status, Jon has regularly done the same thing just without all the titles. In the first episode of season 7 he tells Sansa his opinion is final because he is king. At the Wall he enforced decisions because he’s then Commander. Most all of the rulers reassert there status. She just has more eloquently laid out titles. *not a hate post by the way, SO many people shit on Daenerys in this episode and I just feel bad* 😂
But Dany knows how frustrating it is to know something and tell others but still have them not believe you. She knew exactly how Jon felt but still made remarks at him and at the same time also expected him to give u his people. It made no sense.
Daenerys is being clever and authoritative on the position that she's come here to take. Despite what Daenerys has heard, Jon is a stranger to her and he's come to her as 'the King in the North', telling her a bunch of things that she has no reason to believe that could easily be a trick. Yes, Dany has seen and done impossible things but that shouldn't mean that she believes any old quack. We of course know Jon is telling the truth but Dany doesn't and she has plenty reason so be suspicious and reluctant to what he's telling her. Ps. Love you two! 😊 xxx
Dany used to tell everyone she had dragons but no one would believer her. The same thing is happening here with Jon. She knows exactly how he is feeling.
The scene between Dany og Jon on the steps is one of the best scenes between them in my opinion. I think its the scene where Daenerys starts to respect Jon a bit more. Especially when she says «we all enjoy what we`re good at» and he replies «i don`t». Jon is good at fighting but he does not enjoy it, same as sir Barristan told Daenerys about Rhaegar.
Gods I fking love Euron's theme xD And btw I totally get why Danny isn't fond of Jon. Just imagine someone walking into your castle like "Yo I'm a king too! Oh and btw an army of dead people is coming to wipe us out." I'd act just like her. She doesn't believe in the white walkers, she doesn't know Jon, she was supposed to get murdered on Robert's command (who was Ned's best friend) so she thinks Ned and his family knew about that. All in all I'd not be fond of helping a guy talking about an army of the dead that's coming to kill us all / someone who potentially knew of the assassins. She just thinks he's crazy.
I mean, she should expect people claiming to be king since she's just showed up here herself. And the dead army only came up once the discussion was going. She could have been at least courteous given than he showed up and was willing to talk to her when she is for all intents and purposes a foreign invader
Another thing viewers have to remember is that while we know Jon and Dany, they do not know each other. They've never met before. WE know they're trustworthy, but they don't know anything. And by Tyrion's own admission, he met Jon once, *several* years ago. Things change. She has NO reason to trust him, and especially not when he comes marching in, demanding that she drop everything she's worked her entire life towards, without a single promise that he'll help her in return. Based on what? His say so? Just because we know Jon's telling her the truth doesn't mean Dany or Tyrion know that. And it's not fair to expect Dany to fall at Jon's feet and follow him wherever he wants her to go.
Also....eh..."She was mine and you took her away from me" are not the words of someone who loves their child, but someone who sees their child as a possession.
@Byastovic Sin - She lost her 'birthrate' when Robert took the throne by conquest and started a new dynasty with him at its head. She has no right to the throne, no more than Jon does, no more than *anyone* right now considering all valid heirs have died. One of the big points of the whole series is that the whole concept of birthright is messy and in the end isn't worth anything, and on top of that, we discovered this in the real world, too, so you don't need ASOIAF to understand it! That's why ruling monarchies are few and far between these days, because we know that that kind of stuff doesn't turn out pretty in the end. Promoting the adherence to rights to ascend to the throne isn't smart to begin with, but it sinks to a whole 'nother level when the person in question doesn't even HAVE this right. She has zero rights to the throne, and she's a foreign conqueror at this point. And one with same dangerous and volatile ambitions, too. Dragons and Dothraki don't often leave much land that's worth ruling over.
I didn't say that, nor did I imply that. Jon doesn't owe Daenerys a thing. He's asking for an alliance, she's expects blind fealty, so she can rule over him. There's a difference. Unfortunately, at this point we can't discuss what winds up happening. We can only talk about the story up to this episode. And right now, Dany only sees Jon as a rebel, ergo a threat to her (One who may be a bit delusional). And Jon sees Daenerys as an entitled brat whose only concern is the Iron Throne, and not the best for mankind. So we're both right; Jon and Dany shouldn't be expected to just do what the other wants without knowing whether or not the other is worthy of such loyalty. Neither Dany nor Jon should be expected to give up their goals at this point.
Remember when Dany would tell everyone she had dragons but no one would believe her? Apparantly she doesn't either here. She knows how frustrating it is but she herself does the exact same thing with Jon. She has dragons but suddenly zombies existing seems surreal? Also, why would Jon just kneel to her? He finally had the north and he knew how much it had suffered and he didn't want it to go throught that again. He wanted an alliance but Dany just wanted him to kneel. Dany keeps questioning Jon and making remarks at him but then still expects him to give up his people. The writers made her extremely arrogant and stupid here.
Things are different for Dany now. Saying you're the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms doesn't matter when you're thousands of miles away in Essos, so staking her claim has an entirely different context in her and Jon's introduction. He's the first ruler she's come into contact with that hasn't declared a side, so putting on a good show was important, as well as standing her ground. Have you noticed how Dany refers to Jon as King in private, but not in public? That's because if she were to do that, it'd undermine her own claim. And if you ask me, if it doesn't matter if Dany is queen, then it doesn't matter if Jon is King. Jon's title doesn't matter any more than Dany's so the fact that he was equally unwilling to relinquish it tells me he's just as stubborn as she is. Neither of them were willing to meet the other half way, and even he did, Jon has no gold, no ships, no influence, and hardly any men. The only thing of value Jon has is his sovereignty and he's already refused that. So Dany's the only one giving in this exchange and she has far more to lose at this point than he does.
I understand that Dany has no reason to believe Jon at this point, but the white walkers are both of their problems. He's not actually asking her for anything. He's telling her that they both need each others help to defeat the white walkers. I don't expect her to believe Jon right then, but Jon wasn't hardly asking for anything, and she just comes out and says bend the knee.
Dame Diana Rigg killed it in this role. The Queen of Thorns went out a boss, got the last word in. As for Dany's behavior, she's gone through so much shit in her life, now that she's back and so close to realizing her destiny, she's understandably touchy. She needs to get knocked down a peg or two more before her cockiness is broken. She's lost the Greyjoys, Dornish, *and* the Tyrells. She still has her big guns though: the Unsullied, Dothraki, and dragons.
Diana Rigg received an Emmy nomination for Outstanding guest appearance on a drama FOUR times for this role. (Her first Emmy nomination was in 1967 for playing Emma Peel in the cool spy drama, The Avengers).
People forget that from John's and Danny's perspectives they don't know each other. We as viewers have seen both sides so we know they both are good leaders.
You have to understand that Jon has seen them. Him trying to tell them to someone he just met, and you expect her to give everything she has and her total trust to someone she just meet? She doesn’t believe there’s an army of dead people. Would you believe it? Put your love for Jon aside. And your first time meeting him. Would you believe him? And since he’s part of the seven kingdoms, and she wants to rule them. She wants all of them, including to Jon to Bend the knee because winterfell is in the seven kingdoms. And what do you mean more important things going on then her wanting to be queen? This is what she’s traveled so far for and worked so hard for. So how can something that she doesn’t believe be more important then her main goal in life, the thing she’s working so hard for. And you guys know based on past seasons, she’s all about helping people and saving people, you know that. So once she believes, once she sees. She will do everything in her power to help. You know that
Agree but Dany knows the position Jon is in. She kept telling everyone she had dragons in the earlier seasons yet no one would believe her. But now she just makes witty remarks at him and keeps questioning him yet still believe he would give up his people. She was made really arrogant and stupid here.
I'm glad you immediately recognize Theon's PTSD and don't hate him for his actions. A lot of fans gave him some unfair shit over that (imo). Also, I'm happy you like Euron! He's a trip. Sort of like a classic WWE heel...full of bravado and flashy arrogance. He'd do great on the mic!
What kind of meeting do you expect between two Dragons? A fiery one. 😉👍 I kind of saw this whole catfight between Jon and Dany coming, even if I did think they could be a dream team.
Quote from Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 3: (Varys) ''Give us common folk one taste of power, we're like the lion who tasted man. Nothing is ever so sweet again.'' Neuroscientists have found evidence to suggest feeling powerful dampens a part of our brain that helps with empathy. Everyone want his life to be easy and comfortable. Even the smallest dose of power can change a person. You've probably seen it. Someone gets a promotion or a bit of fame and then, suddenly, they're a little less friendly to the people beneath them. All who gain power are afraid to lose it.
It's true the first meeting between Dany and Jon didn't go so well, but Daenarys is there to take the SEVEN kingdoms, why would she let one go because some guy she never met calls himself "King in the North?" I like that they are fighting because we as the audience are rooting for them both, but the characters themselves have limited perspectives - also, GREAT VIDEO as always :D
One of my favorite moments in all of game of thrones is in this episode. When grayworm picks up the lannister and asks "Where are the rest of the lannisters?" And then it cuts too the lannister army in all its glory marching, while that awesome music is playing. I absolutely love it, its just so epic.
Don’t blame Dany. She has NO idea who Jon Snow even is, and he’s asking her to abandon her entire goal to fight an enemy she thinks is a myth. He also distrusts her. He has no idea the good she’s done. He says from what he can tell her claim rests entirely on the name Targaryen, and not because she deserves the throne. They don’t know the things we know about them. They are both great leaders, and are distrusting.
Here's the thing, why would anyone believe this? After so much treachery, why would she trust Jon right away, and why would he trust her? This made sense to me. Give it time.
the scene between jon and dany is perfect just how it is. looking at it objectively, both parties are well in their right to be how they behave. having a favorite in this scene makes people not see things as they are.
I for one had no sympathy for what happened to the Sand Snakes. Their sense of justice was wrong. All they did was kill off one of the few people in this entire series who really didn’t do anything wrong. Their revenge was pathetic. This was the only time I was ok with Cersei getting her way.
I agree 100%. Those bitches killed a teenage girl, just to get back at her family. They had no mercy for her, so I feel the revenge was justified....and awesome.
Diana Rigg was AMAZING on the show! Sad to see her go, but she went out the way she lived---getting the last word. Can't wait for Monday's show....now I'm all caught up with you two, nice to see ALL those episodes again after all this time. Thank you!
As if Hollywood has any sort of rhyme, reason, or morals behind who they give awards to. The award shows are just hollywierdo pedophiles and sex abusers patting themselves on the backs. Frankly Lena Headey deserves a better award than they could give.
You guys were so hard on Dany, She was just advised to be a dragon by laday Olyna, and let’s face it she doesn’t know Jon like we do so I don’t think we can expect her to show weakness
See it on Dany's perspective : a man, who is a threat to her (because he has all the Nord with him, which is a part of her birth rights), ask her to help him against something she has no reason to believe, which could result to her losing a lot of men of her army, which would make it difficult to win the Iron throne against every other threatening army, Jon's included. From her perspective, it could also be a trap. She doesn't know Jon, she doesn't know he is a man of word. She needs to spend more time with him, and learn more about this army of the dead. I understand both sides in this first meeting.
I never understood how people thought Daenerys's actions and behavior where any different than how she acted before. The only difference is that she is behaving that way toward Jon Snow, another character you like rather than "the masters" and the people who created the unsullied. In fact, she is showing more restraint with Jon Snow. People also complain about her actions going forward (especial in the last season), but it was well established all the way back to Season 3 & 4-people are just seeing it focused in a direction they no longer like.
Exactly! She is acting no differently than she has always acted. She's entitled to the throne simply because she's her father's daughter. She used her husband and his people to drive her brother to the deep end, ensuring his execution, and establishing herself rightful heir. She uses evil creatures (they burn and eat whatever and WHOever they want) to overpower everyone who brings her displeasure. She simply names them "enemy" and they die. Lady Olenna didn't offer her sound counsel, she just told Dany what she wanted to hear: Be a dragon. LO had nothing else to live for except vengeance so, of course, she'd tell her to be a destroyer of worlds.
I don't think Danny's obsessed with being called 'queen', but since the beginning she wanted to take the iron throne. We know Jon and what he's saying it's true, but she doesn't. Jon is being stubborn too, he can't expect her to abandon her goal of taking the throne and go north to fight for the other king who isn't giving her anything in return, to fight for something that she finds hard to believe. Jon saw the dead and the white walkers, and he still didn't believe about the dragons until he saw them. It is frustrating to see BOTH of them being stubborn, but we have to put ourselves in Danny's shoes too, you're getting blindsided by your love for Jon (I love him too). And like other people said in the comments, she's been working hard to get there, this is important for her. We've also seen that she's always willing to help people, so if Jon convinces her, she would definitely help the North. Also, she could've of approached the situation like Cersei did about him not bending the knee, instead she even allowed him to mine the dragonglass
You guys usually have always been reasonable to what the characters do and why they do it, but it seems your love for Jon Snow makes you forget the fact that Daenerys has been working hard to get to where she is and is focused on taking the Throne, but you guys expect her to blindly follow and believe Jon just because you guys know him, Daenerys doesn't know him and she's never heard of the Walkers and Jon was also being a bit stubborn although he has more reason to remember he came very unprepared and asked too much for someone he's never met, and because the war against Cersei has started they can't just go North and expect Cersei to stay away.
I agree 100 percent. Just because of her interaction with Jon in this episode, a lot of people are unhappy with Daenerys. All of her good deeds should not be forgotten. She needs to be in a position of power in order to break the wheel.
It's really hard for a lot of people to see the other sides of characters who haven't seen anything like they have because they've been given the answer since day one. Danny is not treating Jon differently than any other person that she came across that's in charge of a city in essos. The difference is that Jon is not treating her the same way that those slavers treated her. John is the first person like this that she has met and she does not know how to handle it. She knows how to get her way with her dragons, threats, and armies. John is a very new territory for her. Everyone else either immediately fell in love with her and came to her side or fought/underestimated her, lost, and all of their people came to her side. Jon is new. He's respectful and not threatening, he's in a position of power, and he's not immediately fawning over her. All of the rights to the throne by Blood aside, Danny chose to be Queen and she chose to invade slaver's Bay and she chose to free those slaves. Jon was given his position. Yes, he did a lot of things to earn it, but he was chosen. Danny chose. I'm sure a very small part of her kind of resents, or is maybe a little jealous of, him because of that. Edit: I'm using voice recognition and you would think with the amount of stuff that I say about Game of Thrones it would automatically know Jon and Dany but it does not. It knows essos and Westeros. Okay that's some bullshit because I am using voice recognition right now and it got the names right. I'm so mad.
@@iloveyourunclebob I don't think it's jealousy it's the simple fact that she feels he's waisting her time coming to her with this story about dead men and expecting her to believe him and leave her mission to blindly accept his needs without anything in return, that's what gets her to start getting upset it's not the fact that he's chosen she respects that but it's not what bothers her in this scene
Daenerys doesn't know Jon or much about him. If she just trusted him blindly on his word then she would be a complete idiot. Just because we know what Jon's been through doesn't mean she does.
So Jon comes in asks things and blind faith, is not willing to give anything in return not even recognize Dany's rightful position as queen and Dany should be what exactly? You are confusing with the knowledge you have with Jon to judge. She does not know him. As she said Starks are friends with Baratheons who have sent assassins after her. There is plenty of reasons why she should be guarded.
Awesome reaction you two! One thing I think you're forgetting is that we as viewers know Jon ...but Dany doesn't. He literally has no evidence that what he's saying is true (which sucks for him). If I were Dany I definitely wouldn't believe him either... I think as a ruler, she needs more than just words to believe a stranger and act on it. Speaking of evidence, you said something about how Dany should be more understanding of what Jon is saying because of the whole dragons/fire magic thing...but the difference is that if someone doesn't believe her, she has 3 dragons to prove that she's telling the truth! Just something I thought you two should consider :) other than that I 100% agree with you about Dany and the "Queen" thing XD.
But Dany knows how frustrating it is to have something yet people still not believing her. It didn't make sense how she just dismissed the idea even though she knows exactly how Jon is feeling. But other than that, I agree
That whole monologue that Dani gave to Jon was about how the only reason she is alive is because she believed in herself and not in anyone else saving her. She's a dragon, and she's acting like one...it links back also to what Olenna told her about ignoring wise men.
Nikki and Steven - I find your thoughts on Dany and how she keeps insisting that she is a Queen very interesting . It’s definitely a shift from previously cheering the exact same behavior. She hasn’t changed her behavior at all - it’s exactly what she has always done with the Dothraki, with Meereen and Astaphor. In fact, in the past when the Khals decided that they don’t want to follow her, she burned them. Similarly, when the lords of meereen didn’t want to follow her, she crucified them. So she’s actually behaving a lot “softer” with John with Tyrion’s council. It’s the first time however where we as an audience side with Jon and that’s why Dany seems so “stubborn”. Anyway - love your channel. Been watching since episode 1 and have tuned in every episode. 😀 Great Reactors!
I've never been a big fan of Daenerys because her whole attitude was - "I am entitled to be Queen because my father was the Mad King so bend the knee and submit to my rule or I'll unleash my dragons".
You have to look at Dany's point of view for the white walker situation. Dragons have a much more recent history in Westeros thanks to Aegon conquering it some 300 years prior. The white walkers have always been a myth to the Westorosi people because they showed up 8000 years ago. Jon also wouldn't want his death and revival to spread because the white walkers are already pushing it. While Dany's attitude may be off-putting, it makes sense because Jon is still technically her enemy/rival for not bending the knee. Having control of the North and the Vale gives Jon the most land of all 3 rulers so he is a credible threat.
Why should he bend the kney lol. They both needed each other, U are biased dude. Jon was fighting for mankind unlike Dany who just wanted the Throne. Jon doesn't give Shitt about King and Queen. and as he said if he had bent the knee, his ppl would've lost faith in him. U don't understand these things And just look at Dany she was starting to become more arrogant, power was getting to her head
@Nikki & Steven Please do two parts for GOT S7 Ep4, 5, 6, 7 🙏 because they are big in length time and there are many great scenes which u don't want to edit 😅
I don't get it you guys have seen Daenerys with this kind of attitude before with many people, and it's not like she was being hard right away, you loved her when she burned a master in question alive, you loved her when she was about to attack cities in episode 9 season six until Tyrion convinces her otherwise, you loved her when she makes decisions with only her opinion, but all of a sudden with Jon Snow you guys are not liking her? It's as if you expect her to like Jon Snow as much as you guys do right away
Making threats of murder and imprisonment is totally cool of the potential victim is some unknown, unnamed foreigner, you see. When *Jon* is the target, though, it's wrong of her to do it! I wonder if, now that they've seen Dany's treatment of those she sees as below her from the perspective of another main character, they will adjust their views on Dany's previous actions in Essos. I doubt it, though, N&S have always seemed not only blind to her cruelty, but encouraged it here and there.
@@JoviLevi I don't always think Daenerys is cruel and understand some of her choices, But N&S are being very biased just because it's Jon Snow same as many fangirls and fanboys
@Sandra Elizabeth - Nor do I *always* think that, but there have been several very clear instances of Dany acting way out of hand and them simply nodding along because "omg dany is so great" and not criticizing her, but now that the tables have turned and the subject is someone they happen to like they suddenly don't much like her approach anymore. _She's been like this for years._ They're fanboying for both, but Jon just happens to come out on top here. Nothing will change.
I always wondered why it wasn't "King in the North, Son of Lord Eddard Stark. 998th commander of the Night's watch. Leader of the Free Folk." Something like that.
Dany reacts in the way she is expected to react - because anyone in Westeros can be a hostile threat and Jon included - she doesn't know him after all or what he's been through - from her POV, her reactions match what she knows - it is important to keep in mind that Dany didn't watch 7 seasons of Game of Thrones to know what's going on. Jon reacts in the way he's expected to because he is worried about the war to the North and the Night King because he was there and he saw the threat, so in his mind, he's focused on that while not really comprehending that there are other people out there who don't believe in such things because they hadn't had his experiences. You are looking at two people who are reacting the way they should react, the reason you side with Jon more is because you have seen his story so you know more than Dany does
![The Queen's Justice! (GOT 7x3) GAME OF THRONES 7x3 [REACTION] First Time Watching!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AcPeCEZUbKU/mqdefault.jpg)
The saddest thing about Lady Olenna dying, is that we’ll never have a scene with her and Lyanna Mormont. #BadassQueens
Despite Lyanna Mormont being fierce, I think Olanna would have wiped the floor with Lyanna.
Kim F. Kjær Yeah totally. It doesn’t change the fact that they’d be great allies with the same mindset. I really hope Lyanna Mormont will play a bigger role in Season 8.
@@zedwhy371 They would. I hope, too. Though I fear most will die next season during the war against the Night King.
@@KimFKjr No doubt!
That would have been so Epic, I think Olenna would have taken her as her daughter teaching her Everything.
"I am not a Stark"
*Drogon enters and scares the shit out of Jon*
Damn right you ain't, buddy!
Drogon has impeccable timing....
Sup, cousin
Dragon: "WE KNOW!"
Jon "I'm not a Stark."
Rheagal "Damn straight you ain't."
If Ser Barristan was alive, I don’t think that Dany would’ve lost the Tyrells and the Dornish. That’s the thing with Tyrion, he has a great mind for politics and enjoys it, but he’s not a war strategist or a general.
Actually, the way I see it, Tyrion's plans were pretty solid. To say that losing Highgarden and Yara's fleet were his failure and lack of foresight would be discrediting the Lannisters' cunning. Jamie was able to produce a counter-strategy by merely anticipating his little brother's likely moves. Tyrion grew up knowing that Casterly Rock was his family's main base of operations. It doesn't seem he was told before leaving that the family castle was no longer valuable, as he was only on a need-to know basis from the way we've observed his family treat him.
Secondly, The loss of the iron fleet was more of a negligence from Yara and Theon's part. They, more than anyone, should have known that their uncle was hunting them down, and should have prepared accordingly. It wasn't Tyrion's or Dany's job to be on top of that.
I don’t think Tyrion has a lack of war strategies. Yuron, I still can’t work out how the hell his ships were throwing fire at Yara’s fleet (anyone??)!
And Castilly Rock, the plan was good, but turns out Jaime and Cersei had their own plan on the go at the same time.
An I ask what you mean by if Ser Barristan were alive Dany wouldn’t have lost the Tyrell’s and Dornish? Not arguing, I’m genuinely curious to hear what your thoughts are on that.
But Jorah is coming back! He is a war advisor!
@@katiei7103 i think they meant that since Barristan was a very good warrior, he would’ve counceled dany better on war strategies.
I always thought it be cool if Ser Barristan and Ser Davos teamed up or barristan becoming Davos’s teacher and teaching him how to fight they would have made a great team
Lady Olenna went out like a boss, accepted her death in full and never looked back.
Don't underestimate Cersei...Tyrion of all people should have remembered that.
I understand both Daenerys and Jon. Put yourself in Dany's shoes and you'll realize Jon seems like a crazy rebel, son of a lord who was part of the Rebellion that killed her dynasty and tried to kill her multiple times.
Exactly! And in Jon's mind, Daenerys is out of her mind to demand that he bend the knee just because she told him to. Both are right, given their respective journeys. They are also wrong to expect each other to automatically give in to the other's demands. I love them both (my 2 favorites), but let's face it, Jon's story (by his own admission) is hard to take seriously, and he should've had something more concrete to offer (though, he probably feels preservation of mankind IS the offer. ). Meanwhile, Dany should've acted less entitled and condescending, and maybe she should've held off on the knee bending. They both need more allies, and can't afford more enemies.
WOOH. PREACH. THAT'S EXACTLY THE COMMENT I WAS LOOKING FOR 👏👏👏👏
I understand Jon more than Daenerys. Some crazy rebel? He is refusing to pledge his loyalty to the daughter of the person who killed his grandfather, uncle, and sentenced his "father" to death because of his own madness. I'd tell her to go fuck herself too.
@@Sellot91 Jon told her that zombies are coming to attack..,
@Joseph Miller That's not needed. Everyone sees it from Jon's side
Dany's line of "People thought dragons were gone forever but here they are. Perhaps we should be examining what we think we know" was to show that she is starting to believe him or at least starting to question its truth. She's not that hardheaded. She only acts tough as a defense mechanism to not let people walk all over her like in the past.
Even then she's being more than reasonable since everyone knows dragons are actually real whereas White Walkers have been gone for many generations
Ahh! I waited so many years for Daenerys and Jon to meet! I was ridiculously excited for it. About Daenerys in their first meeting: you have to understand that Daenerys told Tyrion to tell Jon to come and bend the knee. She didn't have any idea prior that he was going to be approaching her with this whole new threat that many people don't believe in. And she probably expected that he was there to bend the knee, otherwise why was he there? And he refused, dismissed her claim, and wanted her help. They're both stubborn AF and I love them, but Daenerys was the one who gave Jon something in the end without really believing him.
"I mean no offense, Your Grace, but I don't know you." One of my favorite lines of the series, largely because it is the crux of the dilemma in this meeting. They do not know one another. Neither is going to give an inch until that happens. Their lives, to this point, have taught them both hard lessons in this regard. And, just like Jon and Daenerys, the audience is going to have to wait for them to work this out.
Difference is Jon Snow didn't ask her to bend the knee. He put his life on the line to come there to work with her and form an alliance. She could have burnt him alive the moment he got there and he still went anyway
@@vikingjedi573 well Dany told Tyrion to invite him there to bend the knee and Tyrion did not mention it in his letter. Tyrion knew exactly why Jon was being invited. Obviously, "come South to bend the knee" would probably come off more threatening and Tyrion knowing people better would be like, "no that's not going to work", but he still did this.
I mean, you can tell the writers did this because they want to show the two stubborn good guys go head-to-head and create animosity in the audience. It worked.
@@iloveyourunclebob yes but jon should still expect this to happen given tyrion specifically says "join us" and sansa also makes the point that she has come to reclaim the seven kingdoms and the north is one of them, although tyrion doesn't say bend the knee jon shoul at least expect it
@@andrewpania2702 who says he didn't expect it? I think he expected her to tell him to bend the knee.
@@-hasamastersdegreeinwumbol8565 yes that's why I'm saying he did expect it, some people thought that he didn't expect it which doesn't make sense.
Nobody in this show believed in the White Walkers until they actually saw them for themselves. Ned didn't believe the deserter in the first episode that he beheaded when he told him he saw White Walkers. Dany has just arrived and you expect her to believe a stranger that an army of dead men are coming? Tyrionne doesn't even believe him.
I wish the show would have left in all of the discussions from the letters that came from Castle Black and Thorne bringing the wight arm south that basically rotted on the way down to kings landing. There are so many little discussions about nobody believing anything coming from Castle black about white walkers that I think it would have helped everyone understand Dany's side better if they would have kept those conversations in.
The only other person in the entire Seven Kingdoms that believes them is Stannis and that's only because of Melisandre. The Queens men at castle black, really melisandre's men, don't even believe the brothers of the watch and make comments about it.
Tyrion does believe him. He literally said he does
@@ChrisLamia Tyrion is a good lad; I think he believes Jeor Mormont more than Jon at this moment; Tyrion was clearly shaken when he saw such an honorable, brave and good man like Jeor act truly afraid and warn him that the monsters above the wall were real.
I don't think he believed back in S1, but it's easy to see the memory of that conversation pairing with Jon now to shape his opinion of "oh fuck the myths are real"
She has 3 dragons and and cannot believe in zombies
@@someshghumaria4512 Jon saw the dragons so he would have believe at that time she wasn't lying in the letter she sent to Winterfell, but she did not see "the death" so, you gotta see to believe otherwise you would fall in everything people say and that would doom you
Jon and Dany meeting is one of my fav scenes that D&D have had to come up with. Both of their perspectives are understandable and they're so similar in their hotheadedness, it was brilliant watching such compelling characters butt heads.
Alex Nicole Totally agree. This was masterful writing. I’m always surprised when people react to it like “why is s/he behaving like this?!”. It would be totally unrealistic for them to have been any other way. They’re both finding their way and struggling to figure out the right course. I loved it too x
Scriptonite Reacts right, and I mention it because so many people are quick to blame anything a character does on “bad writing” in this season when they do something that viewers don’t want them to do. It would be unrealistic if everyone just got along and there was no conflict!
@@alexnicole89 That's funny actually, because I never liked it that much. I found Dany's personality not to be in line with what she has always been, and Jon's explanation quite rushed and bad-presented. I was always very sorry that I didn't like their first meeting, so I'm relieved and happy someone did! It's kind of rare to find such positive thoughts about season 7 :D
The Dark Side of J to each their own! Something I’ve noticed is that outside of the internet, all the people I know in real life that watch the show enjoyed the season overall. I don’t think it’s the strongest but I think it gets shit done and that some (not all) of the major complaints lack nuance
+Alex Nicole If you're limiting this to scenes D&D come up with, then yeah I guess this is a pretty good one. If you open up the rest of GoT, the scene isn't that good...
I think my favorite scene D&D has come up with has to be Theon's scene this season. You know the one. Absolutely amazing. It felt like something from the early seasons. It built up a range of emotions within me all within 10 minutes and made me literally say "Wow, I really like Theon". Until that moment, I didn't really feel anything besides pity for Theon, but after that episode I really started rooting for him.
Yes, Dany is supposed to be purposefully frustrating here. Although, justified in it. We find her frustrating because we know Jon is telling the truth and we've known it for 7 seasons. Daenerys doesn't know anything about the White Walkers. Jon is a stranger to her who is asking her to take her army up there while also giving her nothing in return. From her point of view, I do find her justified in her stance with this episode, even though it is slightly off putting to the viewers. They both didn't handle their meeting the best they could have - Dany with her "I'm the queen" and Jon's refusal to give her what he wants in return of getting what he wants.
But, I also can't blame Dany about the "bend the knee - I'm the queen" when Aegon the conqueror did the exact same thing. He gave the houses the opportunity to bend the knee and if they refused, he would bring his army and dragons with them, some houses were reduced to nothing after this. It's the mentality of a conqueror. She isn't acting that differently then she did in Slaver's Bay - it's just this time with a character we actually care about being Jon.
Anyway, love the reaction! Keep up the good work! Can't wait for the next episode, which is my favorite for the season!
Also, please make episode 4 two parts!
You know nothing, Daenerys Targaryen
Everybody needs to read this who in the world will give you their army to fight someone you don't know exist and it sounds like a freaking lie and have nothing in return, fuck off all of the butthurt are snow's fans who don't like when someone tells no to jon
Let us remember that Stannis answered the call to help the Night's Watch (and basically save the realm), where no other king or lord did. That's being King. If Daenerys is the Queen, she has to look out and care for her realm sooner or later.
Thank you! Everyone hates on her for the same thing they cheered her on for previously.
nah, she's a bit annoying here but I forgive her because she quickly came to her senses :-)
7:41 "oh they're there already" literally me all season
Jenna time jumps, to much going on now to waste time on travel like in the earlier seasons.
That was everyone this entire season lol... I get why they did it but damn it’s weird after watching their travels take entire seasons up til now.
Rush to end the season/series.
Steef Lee And somehow no one complained when Katelyn travelled from Winterfell to King’s Landing in next episode? First episode ever, Cersei and Jaime are in KL, then in Winterfell within the same episode.
"Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me." what an amazing line.
I think you need to put yourself in Daenerys' shoes. She's in the position of a conqueror to get back the 7 kingdoms and some dude who calls himself king in the north is talking about dead men behind the Wall? I mean, i would send him to an asylum. She needs to get allies and quickly, instead she's losing everyone and this Jon Snow wants her to come North and fight an undead army and ignore the Iron Throne.
And she didn't rat out LF, wishing upon wish that he will end the Lannisters somehow. And if he ends up on the Iron Throne she gives zero f... about it. Poor Jamie. His father, Cersei, Blackfish, Olenna.. a man can only take so much, body & soul...
I don't buy this. She's seen dragons, warlocks making clones of himself and creating fake realities in the house of the undying. The King in a land she doesn't know has been chosen to rule the North, why would they choose the leader if he's delusional and imagines dead men coming? It's not that farfetched in the context of this show really.
Chikina I didn’t even watch the reaction yet and I almost expected them to immediately side with Daenerys. Wasn’t expecting them to side with Jon.
@@allbies Dragons have been extinct for 100 years that's nothing. They're not THAT special. A little magic is common in the world so warlocks with parlor tricks and witches with curses are possible if little hard to believe for someone who hasn't experienced it but a zombie army led by something called the Night King? Sorry that's a bit far fetched. Especially from a guy who told her basically to fuck off and in the next breath that she needs to pack her bags and go North to help him. BTW she probably thinks they chose him because he won the battle against the Boltons.
Chikina to be fair Dany has dragons like she said no one believed in dragons until she brought them back...Dany’s offended because she knows she’s not the rightful heir.
Hate Cersei all your want but Lena Headey's acting skills are amazing. That scene is one of my favorite. The way she lets you see a glimpse of vulnerability when asking 'why did you do that?' is everything
That moment KILLS ME. She’s so small and almost child-like in that moment, and Lena acts it so subtly and beautifully and impactfully...it’s stunning. She’s beyond brilliant.
Tiberiu Vrinceanu I fully hate Cersei, but she was completely in the right to take out Ellaria and Tyene. The killing of Marcela was uncalled for.
I'll beg to differ. Have you seen "the Sara Conner Chronicles" ?
@@robertrodriguez1964 I would not count a poorly-written Terminator spin-off as anything. You are only as good as your material.
I don't care about the others
She was my queen
I don't understand why are you so surprised about Danny not trusting Jon. Why would she? She doesn't know him plus she hasn't seen white walkers. Ned didn't believe that guy in s1e1 and many didn't believe she had dragons, not until they saw them. Also they live in a patriarchal society where women usually don't rule and all women that do rule(in a way) have this "tough" attitude: Lady Mormont, Cersei, Yara, Lady Olenna and even Sansa is like that now.
The hate on Dany is getting annoying
Nobody said that she should trust Jon (yet), and if they did, I’d say they’re naive or the minority and not the general consensus.
Where she is right to be criticized is expecting a King to “bend the knee” to someone he doesn’t know, a descendant of an overthrown ruler AND house that’s no longer in power in the West, all while he isn’t even “declaring himself king”, but rather taking the position from someone else who HAD already been declared king in the north.
The “faith” was already BROKEN between House Stark and House Targaryen when her father burned Lord Stark and Brandon Stark alive. There was no faith left to break.
So what’s Daenerys really going to do if someone doesn’t “bend the knee” to her? Bring her dragons to some peaceful Keep that’s minding their own business with tens of thousands of innocent people in that castle and keep and burn them all with dragonfire until someone agrees to “bend the knee”? It’s pathetic that she even asked.
I’m a cold hearted person, so it likely doesn’t matter, but if I was the lord of Winterfell and King in the North, I wouldn’t bend the knee based on such a threat and if she wants to burn all of us and have no North left for god-knows-what-asinine-reason, let her. I’d submit myself to the dragon fire as soon as I knew there wouldn’t be a king or lord in line to take over my position and “bend the knee” to justify people taking power through force.
Burning the Red Keep filled with people who keep trying to kill you? Necessary. Burn the North/Winterfell with people who are just happy ruling themselves and going about their business farming and harvesting before winter comes because you have some obsession with ruling? Absolutely pathetic.
I love Dany, but her obsession with “bending the knee” is absolute pointless.
@@HylerMusic Seriously, screw Daenerys, especially for this meeting with Jon where she took an L. The circlejerk for her is ridiculous.
They're surprised at how annoying and passive aggressive she is being.
Jonathan George - What circlejerk? Men have always hated Dany (that’s an observation, not an anti-male statement; I’ve also never understood why *women* tend to hate Margaery. I love both characters. 🤷🏼♀️) The big unwarranted circlejerk is over another female character. It didn’t happen until the HBO series, so my only guess is that it’s due to that one being put into awful situations that happen to OTHER characters in the books.
So If Jon is Dany's nephew, and Dany is the mother of dragons..
…. technically that means Jon and the dragons are cousins lmao.
And it's funny how Jon Snow comes along: I won't bend the knee AND I need your help and some Dragonglass BUT I won't give you anything in return. It annoys me that because Dany is hesitant to believe anything and trust a complete stranger right away is something that gets criticized instantly.
MissGreatBritian it’s because people love Jon and don’t realize that it’s her first time meeting him
Why should he bend the knee? The north is nothing like the south culturally. If they don’t want to be ruled by southerners then why would they want to be ruled by foreign invaders?
Liam Williams she isn’t a foreign invader as she was born in dragonstone. And winterfell/the north regardless is still part of the seven kingdoms. Doesn’t matter he comes in demanding for help and things that he needs, but he won’t bend the knee for her. First time meeting, and he’s asking her for things when he comes to her castle, her home. She hasn’t watched 7 seasons like we have and built a connection with Jon. This is her first meeting, things he’s saying that she doesn’t believe, can’t blame her, as Jon didn’t believe in dragons. She wants all people in the 7 kingdoms to be loyal to her. Otherwise she feels she’s not queen if everyone doesn’t follow her. Makes sense. She wants to be a good leader, that is why she helps people, if she sees people in danger, or in need of help, she will act. But if she doesn’t believe something and doesn’t think it’s real, why would she lend a hand to someone she just met? But once she believes, she will help with all her power and you know that
Micah Harrison she’s not foreign but her entire army is. I know where she’s coming from but I’m explaining why Jon wouldn’t bend the knee. Suppose you have to come from a country that has been ruled by culturally different people to understand. Us Irish we’re conquered and oppressed for centuries by people who were nothing like us. Which is why I relate to the likes of Jon and Robb more than most characters in the show.
Liam Williams spoiler...
He ends up bending the knee so 🤷♂️
But as of right now, he can’t come up into her home with request and things he needs from her, when he won’t do 1 thing she asks of him
The more knowledge and wisdom Bran gains via visions, the more desensitized and detached he becomes emotionally.
Davos should have dropped the "White Wolf" title. It's badass.
Sure, but I personally think it's more badass and more in line with how the northeners are just to not spend time on silly titles.
next episode and the following ones definitely deserves two parts.
Dany is doing nothing that EVERY other person who claimed the throne did. Stannis told Jon to bend the knee too. Robert demanded the same, Joffrey, Cersei, Ramsey. Truth is what she is doing is what EVERY ruler demands. Ruling is about respect. And if you don’t bend a knee then you are not the boss. Just like a general. You salute. Period!
Why should he bend the kney lol. They both needed each other, U are biased dude. Jon was fighting for mankind unlike Dany who just wanted the Throne. Jon doesn't give Shitt about King and Queen. and as he said if he had bent the knee, his ppl would've lost faith in him. U don't understand these things
@@Oliver-es6qv both jon and daenerys acted reasonably, though. jon knew nothing about daenerys just as daenerys knew nothing about jon. why would they show a stranger that much respect?
EDIT: you know, you sound a little biased, too. maybe don't criticize someone for sounding biased, it's hypocritical.
@@pomegranatejuice5139 how can u say Danny acted reasonably. She acted like a spoilt brat like she always does
@@pomegranatejuice5139 I think its because this is the start of where Dany has completely changed. before she used to be merciful. she gave people a choice and opportunities to live. now its just bend the knee or die for everyone she encounters.
@@aya-_-3045 it's because these people won't give her the choice. She was going to be assassinated when she was just a baby just because she was related to the mad king
Dany has literally always been the "I'm the queen, I'm the queen, I'm the queen, I'm the queen" type, but no one ever really noticed until this episode because she was always shoving that in people's faces that no one liked.
blame D&D
@@venicesurfer that's... kinda beside the point
@@venicesurferyou can blame D&D for some things but not for this
I think the pillage of High garden was planned before Cersei carried it out. If you think back to season two, when Tywin was visited by Littlefinger and he talked Tywin into an alliance with them, Tywin responded with, 'they had rebelled against the Crown' and Littlefinger retorts, "I'm sure you can punish them later..." To which he smiled. Think about it. The Lannister's gold had dried up. They were broke. Highgarden was the next richest house...much like House Reine was. I think it was Tywin's end game the whole time.
Ooh, this is a great point. Cersei might not be great at military strategy at all, she might just be playing out Tywin's plan. Great comment!
I could totally see that especially when Tywin was like, alright give the northern girl to the Imp we want Marjorie as Queen because her daddy is stupid rich.
(Spoilers under this comment)
I love how Dany and Jon meet and nothing goes as everyone thought it would.
I appreciate that so much, it would have been so easy for them to instantly fall in love or something like everyone wanted to happen.
😏
Exactly! I liked so much this episode because the Jon-Daenerys interaction was believable and faithful to the characters. All those irrelevant fanboys and fangirls who wanted an alliance from day 1, or event a "love at first sight" shit, they don't get what GOT is about....
@@arismaiden6457 Exactly!! I hoped they would've gone that way throughout the entire season but Jon and Dany just fall in love and it's just not believable and I still (after the finale) dont feel like they belong together. So the relationship is pretty badly built.
@@kledi3817 Uuuh I know man, but don't spoil upcoming stuff. It's kinda predictable I know, but I m sure they don't want to know anything about future episodes.
But I totally agree with your point.
honestly though i don't blame daenerys for wanting him to bend the knee. like yeah, he doesn't know her, but he's also asking for her help. plus, she doesn't believe that the white walkers actually exist so it makes sense she wouldn't be eager to help someone who's not even willing to bend the knee to her.
as a viewer though (with the information we know), i do see that its more important that she helps jon than have him bend the knee.
That's the key for me with this conversation. If you are coming to ask for help from someone and you are also declaring yourself King In the North, what is she supposed to do? I kind of felt like both their responses towards each other were reasonable. And honestly, in the end, she gave more than she got...at least in that very moment.
I totally agree with you! I hope they read this, I feel like people think Jon is always right, but Dany has a point too, like you said
@@Keeks33 Uhm she is also declariing yourself Queen of Westeros because... reasons. She thought she was gaining a big part of the kingdom, he arrived expecting a negotiation.
I agree. Jon has the bigger goal in head, he doesn't even consider Daenerys' war against Cersei, and the "importance" it can have (to her). He doesn't realize that she built her entire life to get there, and that, tbh contrary to people in the North, Dany never grew up listening to the tales on The White Walkers. He's basically asking Daenerys to take all of her army and march North instead of South where Cersei is. For all she knows, he could be a spy working for Cersei, trying to weaken her- no matter what Tyrion says, especially considering that at that point when they're meeting, Tyrion just made a critical mistake that cost Daenerys her fleet.
Yes it's frustrating to see them bickering about power, just like it was annoying to see all these people in KL ignoring the Night's Watch messages during all the previous seasons. But tbh that's the point of the show, and that's what make the stakes higher. It makes for better drama, for sure...
@Dularr i agree, it would be the wrong decision for the north to march on kings landing, and im not saying that he necessarily SHOULD bend the knee. just that i can see why SHE would want him to, given that he's asking her for help to fight something she doesn't believe in and they don't trust each other yet. but yes, i also 100% see why he doesn't want to bend the knee. they both did nothing wrong, in my opinion.
I feel like no one ever puts themselves in Dany’s shoes in this situation. Why the hell should she believe him. She’s defensive because she knows it will take a lot for Westeros to accept another Targ ruler let alone a woman. She doesn’t know Jon. She’s never heard about anything about him before Melisandre. She knows he’s Ned’s son and was probably raised to hate her so she’s instantly on the defensive, hence why she took their weapons when they got there.
Thank you I just made a comment about that !!
Agree
I did.
Also put yourself in Sansa's shoes
Love Me what does any of this have to do with Sansa???
Dany not believing the army of the dead is the same with nobody believing dragons are back until they SEE it themselves. It just seems like fantasies, especially from a stranger you just met who is technically declaring independence from you. EDIT: 29:58 yup, you hit the nail on the head
Jon is basically asking Danny to give up her fight and go north to help him, someone she doesn't know, with something she doesn't believe and he can't prove. Such a big request and he doesn't even want to bend the knee in return. He wants her to let all go for him but he's not prepared to do the same for her.
They are both stubborn! Neither of them want to compromise but both want something from the other. 😒
I guess they'll have to learn how to compromise, just like Tyrion did by asking Danny to give Jon something.
Jon's turn now.
Actually Jon wanted to be allies with Dany. Dany just wanted to rule over him. Daenerys kept questioning Jon and kept making remarks at him but she still expected him to give up his people. Where's the logic?
Saving Jorah was Sam's way of honoring Jeor, who made sure Sam survived for the most part beyond the wall. "You may be a coward, Tarly, but you're not stupid." Jeor knew that while Sam was not a fighter, he was smart and if they had any chance against what was coming, they would need that, too.
Even if you are against Cersei, you have to give Jaime some props for his great strategic move to leave a skeleton crew at Casterly Rock and let it be taken so he could march the majority of the Lannister army to Highgarden to neutralize the Tyrell army, take Highgarden and the resources of the Reach which will allow them to pay back the Iron Bank! Jaime is actually a damn clever commander. He took Riverrun back without sacrificing Lannister and Tully men last season and now has pulled a genius tactical move to get the upper hand over Dany's alliance... and even made sure Lady Olenna didn't get a brutal death because he's actually an honorable guy and not evil like his sister.
Very clever but remember it was Rob's move first. That's how he captured Jaime.
@@michonneokoye4990 Yes and Jaime learned from his mistake and applied it in an even larger capacity. All great generals learn lessons from defeats and other skilled commanders that they have experience against or record of. The fact that he learned from his season 1 defeat (though arguably this had less to do with him making a mistake as Robb cleverly and intentionally sending the Lannister scout back with wrong intelligence) and adapted is what makes him a good military leader now. He has shown that he has grown to take the role of a commander seriously and is actually very good at it now that he can no longer be the best warrior on the battlefield.
That's why I love all Lannisters (Cersei included). They aren't the strongest, they don't have superpowers, they are not popular with the people, but they still manage to get ahead of the game because of their wit and unpredictability. It helps that they have awesome actors too.
@@DreamOfTheRebel I actually agree that overall the Lannisters are the most interesting and deep characters and have by far had the best actors of all of the Houses.
@@CitroChannel What mistake did he make?
Messandai is such a bad ass Would you please hand over your weapons with the coolest grin of all times on her face , and her interaction with Davos is perfect 🤣 she brushed him super smoothly he didn't even feel it until it happened lol , she knows exactly what to do and say and that is super admirable , hats off to Nathalie Emmanuel she nailed her role and goes without saying Ser Davos Liam Cunningham 🖤😎🙏
"Any man who must say I am the King, is no true King" - Twyin Lannister
I hate when people get angry over this meeting. This is what was realistic. Why in the world would Dany believe a person she didn't know?! And why would Jon bend the knee to someone he didnt know?! That's why people getting mad over the meeting is so stupid.
SPOILERS: But how soft they speak to each other later on in the season totally makes up for it :)
I know im late to the party buttttt.
I hate this scene because Danny has completely changed. Before she gave them a choice now its bend the knee or die. No choice. She'll give slavers an opportunity to live but not the people she so desperately wants to rule over.
@@des_18 facts
@@Nikolas5842 not facts that’s a stupid reason lmao pls
"She's being really stubborn right now"
Yeah it seems like they would just give away half of their kingdom to a stranger that asks for it xD
exactly. She started off as merciful and forgiving and about giving people a CHOICE to follow her. She invited john out of nowhere cause she heard he was a king and now there can not be a king of the north cause it's thetening. He told her he does not want anything to do with the iron throne haha. @@des_18
Tyrion is a really good political advisor.... but he's a terrible military advisor. He's out of his depth in a war against Cersei.
Jaime is really the strategist that is countering Tyrion's war moves. Cersei is the schemer and politician and Jaime is the military mind with Randyll Tarly as his ranking general.
Jaime has become even much better as a military strategist after losing to Robb.
If Jorah or Barristan Selmy had been with Danny it would have turned out wayyyy differently
J.F.L. Bousquet The problem is that Tyrion did not expect Euron and Jaime’s strategy. The strategy that Jaime used tricked the brilliant Tywin himself, so of course Tyrion has no real experience to predict it. I think that people expect so much of Tyrion because he is smart in politics. He has no hindsight and can’t counter-act factors that he doesn’t know.
@@Yousefabuljadayel - Tyrion probably couldn't have known about Euron's armada, although I would argue an armada that size should have been easily seen and scouted from Dragonstone as they were sailing in to Blackwater Bay. However that fail happened, it was on the Greyjoys, not Tyrion...
There's really no excuse for what just went down at Casterly Rock though. Tyrion was master of coin for a time in King's Landing; he had to have known the mines at Casterly Rock were tapped.
Even if successful, this was just an incredibly poor part of the plan because the risk/reward just doesn't add up to a net gain if the mines are dead; and now the Unsullied are surrounded in the heart of Lannister bannermen country... this problem was foreseeable and should have been avoided, in my opinion.
I just don't view Tyrion as a war time strategist. Even at the Battle of the Blackwater, his plan was effectively Cersei's plan as she was the one who started stockpiling wildfire in preparation for Stannis' attack; Tyrion just pulled the trigger.
You shouldn't forget that Daenerys doesn't know Jon Snow as we do AND she tries to appear strong. If any male character acted like Dany, you wouldn't be as annoyed with them as you are with her. Btw Jon did a poorly job in convincing them about the White Walker threat. Just assumed that they believe them.
Jon always assumes people will believe him. Hence why he got killed by the Night's Watch.
@@MARYWTHER In his defense, it's been drilled into his brain since he was a child. "Winter is coming" -- Ned Stark, every day for years.
Yes, Jon wasn't very convincing. No, he didn't assume they'd believe him. He admits to Tyrion that it IS hard to believe.
ResFantasyfan True
@@ResFantasyfan yeah but that's after this meeting when he's saying "why can't you believe me? if I heard, oh wait. nevermind, I get it now. I wouldn't believe me either." He did go in there assuming they would believe him and didn't realize that it was unbelievable until that talk with Tyrion. They literally show him realize it in that scene.
I don't get why people expect Dany to just believe Jon. If somebody came to me as I was preparing to own everyone with my 3 large dragons and said "Hey, I know you want to rule over the kingdom and my kingdom is part of it, but I won't bow to you and hey, we should focus on fighting these evil dead ice-zombies instead" I wouldn't believe them either. Dany doesn't know Jon, she's never heard of white walkers and unlike with the dragons, there was never anything that suggested to her that they exist(ed) except for the word of a king who will be, as she says, in rebellion against her :D
I would be in rebellion against her too considering what her father did to Jon's family.
Dany knows how frustrating it is to have something yet have people not believing them. She knew exactly how Jon felt because she had been in his exact position before. And why did Dany expect Jon to give up the north? Ever since they met, she keeps questioning Jon and keeps making remarks at him yet still expects him to give up his people. Where's the logic? Jon also wanted an alliance, Dany didn't.
@@aleenawaqar909 you are right at some points, but jon fails at making this alliance fair enogh, we are talking about not only taking your army but what she considers "her children" to a war where they could die, all of what you worked so hard to get, Jon should have made clear what the alliance would benefit both parts, she helps in the war againts the death and Jon then helps her to get the iron throne but it was no mention in this scene, what i saw was "you have to help me!" and nothing more...
@@nicolasguzman519 I agreee. Jon didn't explain it so well
Nikki: "Oh, they are there already"
The house words of Season 7.
This is what happens when one side has an experienced general (Jaime Lannister) and the other side doesn't (Jorah Mormont is out of commission). An experienced general is an invaluable asset to have in war, Jamie sacrificed one chess piece to take three from the opponent. Brilliant.
Tyrion might be clever and well-read, but he is severely lacking experience when it comes to being a general.
A deed for the Book of Brothers, perhaps.
Well, for all of Tyrion's well-readness, he didn't read Grand Maester Ch'Valathan... Ch'Valatesh.. Ch'Valteesh.. Ch'Vyalthan's book on the Great Sieges of Westeros.
Dany doesn't really need Jon to be honest , she had The Unsullied, The Dothraki, The Tyrells, The Ironborn , The Martells , The Second Sons and all the slave cities she freed but Tyrion underestimated Cersei now she lost allies because they wanted to play it safe. Dany should've hit Kings Landing hard like Yara said!
Fritz Matthew yup, Grandma Tyrell did say be a dragon!
Fritz Matthew I agree. Dani wins when she’s a dragon. Every clever scheme of Tyrion’s fails miserably and costs her. And let’s not forget, his wonderful reign as Hand in Kings Landing ended in his near-assassination and ousting! And Tywin won the Battle of Blackwater Bay by bringing in the Tyrell’s last minute as the Lannister army were about to be crushed by Stannis.
I love Tyrion to bits. But people really overstate his abilities 😂
Exactly!!!! Yet again, Tyrion was outsmarted lol his strategies have been terrible since he killed his father and Shay, he kinda lost something.
I don't know, she just lost all her allies. An alliance with the North is looking better and better.
@@Nandrall18-25 Agreed! A north alliance is exactly what she needs right now.
I think there is a bit of unfairness thrown towards Daenerys in this episode.
She has no reason to believe in The White Walkers:
1. She lived in Essos (where the White Walkers are never discussed) her entire life, and she even said in this episode that she never received a formal education.
2. There’s often an argument that because Daenerys has dragons she has to believe in White Walkers. I disagree. Although most people haven’t seen dragons, there is proof that dragons existed. There are skulls from dead dragons and there is historical validation of dragons. Beyond the north the White Walkers are nothing but a myth.
Daenerys is in a very tough spot just like Jon. She brought thousands of people from Essos and promised them she would burn their enemies and keep them safe. She’s also dealing with people that almost immediately demonize her or write her off. And she has NO possible way to validate the existence of the White Walkers. People should cut her slack.
And also in regards to her having to use her status, Jon has regularly done the same thing just without all the titles. In the first episode of season 7 he tells Sansa his opinion is final because he is king. At the Wall he enforced decisions because he’s then Commander. Most all of the rulers reassert there status. She just has more eloquently laid out titles.
*not a hate post by the way, SO many people shit on Daenerys in this episode and I just feel bad* 😂
But Dany knows how frustrating it is to know something and tell others but still have them not believe you. She knew exactly how Jon felt but still made remarks at him and at the same time also expected him to give u his people. It made no sense.
I actually can’t wait for next weeks reaction to episode 4!! 😱😱😱😂😂😂😂
Next WEEK?? GRRR
@@servertest next year ~ GRRM ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@Misiek808 Cheeky!
Hope we get 2 parts!
@@Misiek808 hehehehehehe I like that
Daenerys is being clever and authoritative on the position that she's come here to take. Despite what Daenerys has heard, Jon is a stranger to her and he's come to her as 'the King in the North', telling her a bunch of things that she has no reason to believe that could easily be a trick. Yes, Dany has seen and done impossible things but that shouldn't mean that she believes any old quack. We of course know Jon is telling the truth but Dany doesn't and she has plenty reason so be suspicious and reluctant to what he's telling her.
Ps. Love you two! 😊 xxx
Dany used to tell everyone she had dragons but no one would believer her. The same thing is happening here with Jon. She knows exactly how he is feeling.
The scene between Dany og Jon on the steps is one of the best scenes between them in my opinion. I think its the scene where Daenerys starts to respect Jon a bit more. Especially when she says «we all enjoy what we`re good at» and he replies «i don`t». Jon is good at fighting but he does not enjoy it, same as sir Barristan told Daenerys about Rhaegar.
Cersei's vengeance on Ellaria Sand is one the most savage moments in the whole show. I mean ... Damn!
didn't compare to Arya and The Freys
I kind of wish the captured and tortured "greedy butch" Obara instead of the pretty daughter.
And satisfying
Gods I fking love Euron's theme xD
And btw I totally get why Danny isn't fond of Jon.
Just imagine someone walking into your castle like "Yo I'm a king too! Oh and btw an army of dead people is coming to wipe us out."
I'd act just like her. She doesn't believe in the white walkers, she doesn't know Jon, she was supposed to get murdered on Robert's command (who was Ned's best friend) so she thinks Ned and his family knew about that.
All in all I'd not be fond of helping a guy talking about an army of the dead that's coming to kill us all / someone who potentially knew of the assassins.
She just thinks he's crazy.
Nina Hartmann I love Euron lol
Dont forget abt Drogo. How can she belive ppl rise from the dead and march in armies to take over the world? Drogo was in a vegetative state
@@anycullen21 Oh that's interesting!
I mean, she should expect people claiming to be king since she's just showed up here herself. And the dead army only came up once the discussion was going.
She could have been at least courteous given than he showed up and was willing to talk to her when she is for all intents and purposes a foreign invader
one oh her ministers said he was a good dude...
Another thing viewers have to remember is that while we know Jon and Dany, they do not know each other. They've never met before. WE know they're trustworthy, but they don't know anything. And by Tyrion's own admission, he met Jon once, *several* years ago. Things change. She has NO reason to trust him, and especially not when he comes marching in, demanding that she drop everything she's worked her entire life towards, without a single promise that he'll help her in return. Based on what? His say so? Just because we know Jon's telling her the truth doesn't mean Dany or Tyrion know that. And it's not fair to expect Dany to fall at Jon's feet and follow him wherever he wants her to go.
Also....eh..."She was mine and you took her away from me" are not the words of someone who loves their child, but someone who sees their child as a possession.
And it's not fair to expect Jon to just bend the knee to a complete stranger just because she tells him to.
@Byastovic Sin - She lost her 'birthrate' when Robert took the throne by conquest and started a new dynasty with him at its head. She has no right to the throne, no more than Jon does, no more than *anyone* right now considering all valid heirs have died. One of the big points of the whole series is that the whole concept of birthright is messy and in the end isn't worth anything, and on top of that, we discovered this in the real world, too, so you don't need ASOIAF to understand it! That's why ruling monarchies are few and far between these days, because we know that that kind of stuff doesn't turn out pretty in the end.
Promoting the adherence to rights to ascend to the throne isn't smart to begin with, but it sinks to a whole 'nother level when the person in question doesn't even HAVE this right. She has zero rights to the throne, and she's a foreign conqueror at this point. And one with same dangerous and volatile ambitions, too. Dragons and Dothraki don't often leave much land that's worth ruling over.
I didn't say that, nor did I imply that. Jon doesn't owe Daenerys a thing. He's asking for an alliance, she's expects blind fealty, so she can rule over him. There's a difference. Unfortunately, at this point we can't discuss what winds up happening. We can only talk about the story up to this episode. And right now, Dany only sees Jon as a rebel, ergo a threat to her (One who may be a bit delusional). And Jon sees Daenerys as an entitled brat whose only concern is the Iron Throne, and not the best for mankind. So we're both right; Jon and Dany shouldn't be expected to just do what the other wants without knowing whether or not the other is worthy of such loyalty. Neither Dany nor Jon should be expected to give up their goals at this point.
Remember when Dany would tell everyone she had dragons but no one would believe her? Apparantly she doesn't either here. She knows how frustrating it is but she herself does the exact same thing with Jon. She has dragons but suddenly zombies existing seems surreal? Also, why would Jon just kneel to her? He finally had the north and he knew how much it had suffered and he didn't want it to go throught that again. He wanted an alliance but Dany just wanted him to kneel. Dany keeps questioning Jon and making remarks at him but then still expects him to give up his people. The writers made her extremely arrogant and stupid here.
Things are different for Dany now. Saying you're the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms doesn't matter when you're thousands of miles away in Essos, so staking her claim has an entirely different context in her and Jon's introduction. He's the first ruler she's come into contact with that hasn't declared a side, so putting on a good show was important, as well as standing her ground. Have you noticed how Dany refers to Jon as King in private, but not in public? That's because if she were to do that, it'd undermine her own claim. And if you ask me, if it doesn't matter if Dany is queen, then it doesn't matter if Jon is King. Jon's title doesn't matter any more than Dany's so the fact that he was equally unwilling to relinquish it tells me he's just as stubborn as she is. Neither of them were willing to meet the other half way, and even he did, Jon has no gold, no ships, no influence, and hardly any men. The only thing of value Jon has is his sovereignty and he's already refused that. So Dany's the only one giving in this exchange and she has far more to lose at this point than he does.
Well said!!! Amen sis
@@hushedBitch much appreciated 😊
@@ryonyay Totally feel u. We gotta defend our queen!
I understand that Dany has no reason to believe Jon at this point, but the white walkers are both of their problems. He's not actually asking her for anything. He's telling her that they both need each others help to defeat the white walkers. I don't expect her to believe Jon right then, but Jon wasn't hardly asking for anything, and she just comes out and says bend the knee.
Dame Diana Rigg killed it in this role. The Queen of Thorns went out a boss, got the last word in.
As for Dany's behavior, she's gone through so much shit in her life, now that she's back and so close to realizing her destiny, she's understandably touchy. She needs to get knocked down a peg or two more before her cockiness is broken. She's lost the Greyjoys, Dornish, *and* the Tyrells. She still has her big guns though: the Unsullied, Dothraki, and dragons.
Diana Rigg received an Emmy nomination for Outstanding guest appearance on a drama FOUR times for this role. (Her first Emmy nomination was in 1967 for playing Emma Peel in the cool spy drama, The Avengers).
Aye, she was also the Bond girl in On Her Magesty's Secret Service. And she's a Dame Commander.
RIP Diana Rigg 😔😔😔
People forget that from John's and Danny's perspectives they don't know each other. We as viewers have seen both sides so we know they both are good leaders.
You have to understand that Jon has seen them. Him trying to tell them to someone he just met, and you expect her to give everything she has and her total trust to someone she just meet? She doesn’t believe there’s an army of dead people. Would you believe it? Put your love for Jon aside. And your first time meeting him. Would you believe him? And since he’s part of the seven kingdoms, and she wants to rule them. She wants all of them, including to Jon to Bend the knee because winterfell is in the seven kingdoms. And what do you mean more important things going on then her wanting to be queen? This is what she’s traveled so far for and worked so hard for. So how can something that she doesn’t believe be more important then her main goal in life, the thing she’s working so hard for. And you guys know based on past seasons, she’s all about helping people and saving people, you know that. So once she believes, once she sees. She will do everything in her power to help. You know that
Agree but Dany knows the position Jon is in. She kept telling everyone she had dragons in the earlier seasons yet no one would believe her. But now she just makes witty remarks at him and keeps questioning him yet still believe he would give up his people. She was made really arrogant and stupid here.
I'm glad you immediately recognize Theon's PTSD and don't hate him for his actions. A lot of fans gave him some unfair shit over that (imo). Also, I'm happy you like Euron! He's a trip. Sort of like a classic WWE heel...full of bravado and flashy arrogance. He'd do great on the mic!
What kind of meeting do you expect between two Dragons?
A fiery one. 😉👍
I kind of saw this whole catfight between Jon and Dany coming, even if I did think they could be a dream team.
JONERYS YAAAAS FINALLY. AFTER 10 years of waiting... couple months for you 😂
8:48 🤔🤔🤔 interesting timing there drogon
Jon: I'm not a Stark.
Drogon: DADDY!
Archangel Michael lmao
*JON*
The MARUL wut? :D
Archangel Michael not john
Jon ain't the father to drogon. Jon the father of an oversize wolf
STARK & TARGARYEN. THE FINEST MEETUP / COLLABORATION SINCE PEPPERONI & MOZZARELLA. SINCE WILDER & PRYOR. SINCE BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD. HERE... WE... GO.
You deserve a upvote just for the mention of the Wilder and Pryor. Well done
I'm just saddened that you left out peanut butter and chocolate.
@@MarvRoberts Ewww
@@Dreamfyre_ Are you Irish, TAZY? It's okay. I understand.
@@MarvRoberts you watch the Irish people get triggered by peanut butter on Facts. too?
13:34 remember Tywins words “ any man who constantly says I am the king is no true king”
Quote from Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 3:
(Varys)
''Give us common folk one taste of power, we're like the lion who tasted man. Nothing is ever so sweet again.''
Neuroscientists have found evidence to suggest feeling powerful dampens a part of our brain that helps with empathy. Everyone want his life to be easy and comfortable. Even the smallest dose of power can change a person. You've probably seen it. Someone gets a promotion or a bit of fame and then, suddenly, they're a little less friendly to the people beneath them. All who gain power are afraid to lose it.
It's true the first meeting between Dany and Jon didn't go so well, but Daenarys is there to take the SEVEN kingdoms, why would she let one go because some guy she never met calls himself "King in the North?" I like that they are fighting because we as the audience are rooting for them both, but the characters themselves have limited perspectives
- also, GREAT VIDEO as always :D
One of my favorite moments in all of game of thrones is in this episode. When grayworm picks up the lannister and asks "Where are the rest of the lannisters?" And then it cuts too the lannister army in all its glory marching, while that awesome music is playing. I absolutely love it, its just so epic.
Ah yes, all spectacle, no substance.
Diana Rigg plays Lady Olenna just like an old version of her role in the Avengers, Kick Ass!
"Can they smell what the Rock is cooking?" That look Nikki gave ya... priceless
Don’t blame Dany. She has NO idea who Jon Snow even is, and he’s asking her to abandon her entire goal to fight an enemy she thinks is a myth. He also distrusts her. He has no idea the good she’s done. He says from what he can tell her claim rests entirely on the name Targaryen, and not because she deserves the throne. They don’t know the things we know about them.
They are both great leaders, and are distrusting.
kinda miss the outfits now
Right? They would have been perfect this episode!
@@AmarthwenNarmacil should we maybe start a petition for them to wear the costumes for the finale of season 7? That would be iconic tbh 😂
@@saradojcinovic6146 i think nikki would go all mad king with how much she was fidgeting with the wig lol it would drive her crazy
Here's the thing, why would anyone believe this? After so much treachery, why would she trust Jon right away, and why would he trust her? This made sense to me. Give it time.
Tyrion : Rule number one stark men dont do well when they travel south.
Jon: I am not a stark .
Dragon flew upon him .silence
the scene between jon and dany is perfect just how it is. looking at it objectively, both parties are well in their right to be how they behave. having a favorite in this scene makes people not see things as they are.
34:11 "Is he a Jedi? " "He can't mind control people. He can just see stuff."
(Sigh) Poor Hodor.
My Man Jon SNEWWWWW!!!! *Nikki Rolls Eyes*
That is literally your guys’ signature move.
One of my favourite episodes of S7 🙌
Dany is acting like she is afraid someone is going to take her toy away. Her toy being her throne.
I for one had no sympathy for what happened to the Sand Snakes. Their sense of justice was wrong. All they did was kill off one of the few people in this entire series who really didn’t do anything wrong. Their revenge was pathetic. This was the only time I was ok with Cersei getting her way.
I agree 100%. Those bitches killed a teenage girl, just to get back at her family. They had no mercy for her, so I feel the revenge was justified....and awesome.
monicawism the sad part is that they technically make me root for Cersei for a moment.
Diana Rigg was AMAZING on the show! Sad to see her go, but she went out the way she lived---getting the last word. Can't wait for Monday's show....now I'm all caught up with you two, nice to see ALL those episodes again after all this time. Thank you!
12:30 - "But did you die?" - QueenNikki/Ken Jeong 😂
That scene between Cersei and Ellaria was for me the best of the season. Lena Headey should have won that f*cking Emmy!
Why Lena Heady and Ramin Dwjadi have not won any awards for their work in GoT, I will never know?🙄🤔🤔🤔
@@jimmackey6110 Two of Hollywood's worst mistakes...
Even though I wasn't a fan of their acting in season 5 and 6, I think the actresses who play Ellaria and the daughter did a pretty good job too.
Lena is the best actor/actress left in GOT besides Nikolaj Caster
As if Hollywood has any sort of rhyme, reason, or morals behind who they give awards to. The award shows are just hollywierdo pedophiles and sex abusers patting themselves on the backs. Frankly Lena Headey deserves a better award than they could give.
You guys were so hard on Dany,
She was just advised to be a dragon by laday Olyna, and let’s face it she doesn’t know Jon like we do so I don’t think we can expect her to show weakness
31:20 Any man who says I am the king is no true king - Tywin Lannister
See it on Dany's perspective : a man, who is a threat to her (because he has all the Nord with him, which is a part of her birth rights), ask her to help him against something she has no reason to believe, which could result to her losing a lot of men of her army, which would make it difficult to win the Iron throne against every other threatening army, Jon's included. From her perspective, it could also be a trap. She doesn't know Jon, she doesn't know he is a man of word. She needs to spend more time with him, and learn more about this army of the dead. I understand both sides in this first meeting.
So this is the story of how Nikki and Steven first met....seems accurate
I never understood how people thought Daenerys's actions and behavior where any different than how she acted before. The only difference is that she is behaving that way toward Jon Snow, another character you like rather than "the masters" and the people who created the unsullied. In fact, she is showing more restraint with Jon Snow. People also complain about her actions going forward (especial in the last season), but it was well established all the way back to Season 3 & 4-people are just seeing it focused in a direction they no longer like.
Exactly! She is acting no differently than she has always acted. She's entitled to the throne simply because she's her father's daughter. She used her husband and his people to drive her brother to the deep end, ensuring his execution, and establishing herself rightful heir. She uses evil creatures (they burn and eat whatever and WHOever they want) to overpower everyone who brings her displeasure. She simply names them "enemy" and they die. Lady Olenna didn't offer her sound counsel, she just told Dany what she wanted to hear: Be a dragon. LO had nothing else to live for except vengeance so, of course, she'd tell her to be a destroyer of worlds.
I don't think Danny's obsessed with being called 'queen', but since the beginning she wanted to take the iron throne. We know Jon and what he's saying it's true, but she doesn't. Jon is being stubborn too, he can't expect her to abandon her goal of taking the throne and go north to fight for the other king who isn't giving her anything in return, to fight for something that she finds hard to believe. Jon saw the dead and the white walkers, and he still didn't believe about the dragons until he saw them. It is frustrating to see BOTH of them being stubborn, but we have to put ourselves in Danny's shoes too, you're getting blindsided by your love for Jon (I love him too). And like other people said in the comments, she's been working hard to get there, this is important for her. We've also seen that she's always willing to help people, so if Jon convinces her, she would definitely help the North. Also, she could've of approached the situation like Cersei did about him not bending the knee, instead she even allowed him to mine the dragonglass
But Dany has been in Jon's position before so it didn't make sense why she reacted so harshly.
I’m so glad that you guys are thriving in your Game of Thrones journey. We’re so glad to be a part of your experience!
You guys usually have always been reasonable to what the characters do and why they do it, but it seems your love for Jon Snow makes you forget the fact that Daenerys has been working hard to get to where she is and is focused on taking the Throne, but you guys expect her to blindly follow and believe Jon just because you guys know him, Daenerys doesn't know him and she's never heard of the Walkers and Jon was also being a bit stubborn although he has more reason to remember he came very unprepared and asked too much for someone he's never met, and because the war against Cersei has started they can't just go North and expect Cersei to stay away.
Same sentiments here. I’m surprised by Nikki’s reaction
I agree 100 percent. Just because of her interaction with Jon in this episode, a lot of people are unhappy with Daenerys. All of her good deeds should not be forgotten. She needs to be in a position of power in order to break the wheel.
It's really hard for a lot of people to see the other sides of characters who haven't seen anything like they have because they've been given the answer since day one. Danny is not treating Jon differently than any other person that she came across that's in charge of a city in essos. The difference is that Jon is not treating her the same way that those slavers treated her. John is the first person like this that she has met and she does not know how to handle it. She knows how to get her way with her dragons, threats, and armies. John is a very new territory for her. Everyone else either immediately fell in love with her and came to her side or fought/underestimated her, lost, and all of their people came to her side. Jon is new. He's respectful and not threatening, he's in a position of power, and he's not immediately fawning over her. All of the rights to the throne by Blood aside, Danny chose to be Queen and she chose to invade slaver's Bay and she chose to free those slaves. Jon was given his position. Yes, he did a lot of things to earn it, but he was chosen. Danny chose. I'm sure a very small part of her kind of resents, or is maybe a little jealous of, him because of that.
Edit: I'm using voice recognition and you would think with the amount of stuff that I say about Game of Thrones it would automatically know Jon and Dany but it does not. It knows essos and Westeros. Okay that's some bullshit because I am using voice recognition right now and it got the names right. I'm so mad.
@@iloveyourunclebob I don't think it's jealousy it's the simple fact that she feels he's waisting her time coming to her with this story about dead men and expecting her to believe him and leave her mission to blindly accept his needs without anything in return, that's what gets her to start getting upset it's not the fact that he's chosen she respects that but it's not what bothers her in this scene
@@lemonpi318 I'm just explaining one tiny aspect to a very large reasoning as to why she doesn't trust him.
Daenerys doesn't know Jon or much about him. If she just trusted him blindly on his word then she would be a complete idiot. Just because we know what Jon's been through doesn't mean she does.
Still doesn't give her the right to be this arrogant.
So Jon comes in asks things and blind faith, is not willing to give anything in return not even recognize Dany's rightful position as queen and Dany should be what exactly? You are confusing with the knowledge you have with Jon to judge. She does not know him. As she said Starks are friends with Baratheons who have sent assassins after her. There is plenty of reasons why she should be guarded.
Awesome reaction you two! One thing I think you're forgetting is that we as viewers know Jon ...but Dany doesn't. He literally has no evidence that what he's saying is true (which sucks for him). If I were Dany I definitely wouldn't believe him either... I think as a ruler, she needs more than just words to believe a stranger and act on it. Speaking of evidence, you said something about how Dany should be more understanding of what Jon is saying because of the whole dragons/fire magic thing...but the difference is that if someone doesn't believe her, she has 3 dragons to prove that she's telling the truth! Just something I thought you two should consider :) other than that I 100% agree with you about Dany and the "Queen" thing XD.
But Dany knows how frustrating it is to have something yet people still not believing her. It didn't make sense how she just dismissed the idea even though she knows exactly how Jon is feeling. But other than that, I agree
@@aleenawaqar909 😂 I don't even remember writing this!
@@Billoo04 😂😂
@@Billoo04 I am new to the fandom so I'm watching these things now. So bare with me ok? lol 😂
@@aleenawaqar909 That's awesome, wish I could forget everything and start it all over again.
12:22 “I don’t think so” 😭😭
That whole monologue that Dani gave to Jon was about how the only reason she is alive is because she believed in herself and not in anyone else saving her. She's a dragon, and she's acting like one...it links back also to what Olenna told her about ignoring wise men.
Getting sad, your got reactions are coming to the end
Miquel Canosa Santeularia Right, what will we watch on yotube when Got is over?
😩😩 fingers crossed by the time the GOT prequels come out they’ll still be reacting to them!!
Season 8 is coming... (insert got end theme)
They should react to histories and lore videos (for all seasons) :)
Vioozie yes!! Fan videos for ships and characters would be cool!
jon is equally as stubborn lol
Nikki and Steven - I find your thoughts on Dany and how she keeps insisting that she is a Queen very interesting . It’s definitely a shift from previously cheering the exact same behavior. She hasn’t changed her behavior at all - it’s exactly what she has always done with the Dothraki, with Meereen and Astaphor. In fact, in the past when the Khals decided that they don’t want to follow her, she burned them. Similarly, when the lords of meereen didn’t want to follow her, she crucified them. So she’s actually behaving a lot “softer” with John with Tyrion’s council. It’s the first time however where we as an audience side with Jon and that’s why Dany seems so “stubborn”.
Anyway - love your channel. Been watching since episode 1 and have tuned in every episode. 😀 Great Reactors!
I've never been a big fan of Daenerys because her whole attitude was - "I am entitled to be Queen because my father was the Mad King so bend the knee and submit to my rule or I'll unleash my dragons".
You have to look at Dany's point of view for the white walker situation. Dragons have a much more recent history in Westeros thanks to Aegon conquering it some 300 years prior. The white walkers have always been a myth to the Westorosi people because they showed up 8000 years ago. Jon also wouldn't want his death and revival to spread because the white walkers are already pushing it.
While Dany's attitude may be off-putting, it makes sense because Jon is still technically her enemy/rival for not bending the knee. Having control of the North and the Vale gives Jon the most land of all 3 rulers so he is a credible threat.
Why should he bend the kney lol. They both needed each other, U are biased dude. Jon was fighting for mankind unlike Dany who just wanted the Throne. Jon doesn't give Shitt about King and Queen. and as he said if he had bent the knee, his ppl would've lost faith in him. U don't understand these things
And just look at Dany she was starting to become more arrogant, power was getting to her head
@Nikki & Steven Please do two parts for GOT S7 Ep4, 5, 6, 7 🙏 because they are big in length time and there are many great scenes which u don't want to edit 😅
Yaa
Am thinking about same
Age of the Witch said 2 parters were starting next week with episode 4. So, they already know.
@@iloveyourunclebob thanks so we will get 2 parts for remaining last 4 episode ?
@@tellywebsamacharblog pretty sure!
- I'm not a stark
*Dragon flies over*
well played :D
IKR It was like .... Eh -- Ah -- Oh I see what you did there.
I don't get it you guys have seen Daenerys with this kind of attitude before with many people, and it's not like she was being hard right away, you loved her when she burned a master in question alive, you loved her when she was about to attack cities in episode 9 season six until Tyrion convinces her otherwise, you loved her when she makes decisions with only her opinion, but all of a sudden with Jon Snow you guys are not liking her? It's as if you expect her to like Jon Snow as much as you guys do right away
Making threats of murder and imprisonment is totally cool of the potential victim is some unknown, unnamed foreigner, you see. When *Jon* is the target, though, it's wrong of her to do it!
I wonder if, now that they've seen Dany's treatment of those she sees as below her from the perspective of another main character, they will adjust their views on Dany's previous actions in Essos. I doubt it, though, N&S have always seemed not only blind to her cruelty, but encouraged it here and there.
@@JoviLevi I don't always think Daenerys is cruel and understand some of her choices, But N&S are being very biased just because it's Jon Snow same as many fangirls and fanboys
@Sandra Elizabeth - Nor do I *always* think that, but there have been several very clear instances of Dany acting way out of hand and them simply nodding along because "omg dany is so great" and not criticizing her, but now that the tables have turned and the subject is someone they happen to like they suddenly don't much like her approach anymore. _She's been like this for years._
They're fanboying for both, but Jon just happens to come out on top here. Nothing will change.
@@JoviLevi Yeah I tend to hate biased opinions especially when they end up looking like a hypocrite
Amen sistan
I always wondered why it wasn't "King in the North, Son of Lord Eddard Stark. 998th commander of the Night's watch. Leader of the Free Folk." Something like that.
Any man who says “I AM THE KING” is no true king
This goes for queen too
Dany reacts in the way she is expected to react - because anyone in Westeros can be a hostile threat and Jon included - she doesn't know him after all or what he's been through - from her POV, her reactions match what she knows - it is important to keep in mind that Dany didn't watch 7 seasons of Game of Thrones to know what's going on.
Jon reacts in the way he's expected to because he is worried about the war to the North and the Night King because he was there and he saw the threat, so in his mind, he's focused on that while not really comprehending that there are other people out there who don't believe in such things because they hadn't had his experiences.
You are looking at two people who are reacting the way they should react, the reason you side with Jon more is because you have seen his story so you know more than Dany does