Chuck - and you should stop complaining about dumb things. FYI, that Camaro runs an 11.5 ET when fine tuned... That’s quicker than the 2019 Corvette Stingray, all with 50-year-old technology. So yeah, it is a nasty car. I bet you’re a ton of fun at parties 👍
@@CarsAndZebras I totally agree it's always somebody posting negative comments about your videos. If you can't find anything nice to say don't watch the videos or keep your negative ass comments to your self the world would be a better place if negative people simply did not exist
@Chuck Barnes no new car will ever be able to compare to a old school muscle car. These modern cars always get pounded by old school muscle cars at the drags sir please have several seats
Chuck - you are creating an argument that isn’t there. No one said modern cars aren’t quick. But if you hadn’t noticed, this video features classic cars. Also, no one is forcing you to watch. Don’t like it? Hit the “x” in the corner of the screen and get lost. 👍
I'm a Mopar guy but I love both of these cars. The 69 RAIV GTO is definitely one of my favorite Pontiac's ever made. The RAIV had a wicked sounding idle for having a hydraulic camshaft. My favorite Chevy of all is a 69 Camaro ZL-1 but that iron block L72 COPO Camaro would do just fine. I love the COPO cars because they were all such sleepers. They just looked like base model Camaro's and Malibu's but had Chevy's meanest regular production big block under the hood which usually only was available in the Corvette or full size Chevy's
@@jeremythompson9122 , I love the COPO sleepers too, but that blue Yenko shown at the 1:04 mark is gorgeous. I had lesser versions of the Camaro and GTO during my younger, single days. My Camaro was a 67 RS/SS 350 convertible, and a couple of years later I picked up a 69 GTO Judge, with the Ram Air III engine. Both cars were 4 speeds, and I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite from the two, although the GTO with it's 366 HP 400 c.i. engine was a stronger runner than the Camaro that was equipped with a 295 HP. 350 c.i. engine. I owned both of these vehicles while I was in the Navy, stationed in Puerto Rico, and the year round warm weather over there made every day convertible weather day. The GTO was optioned out to the max except for the Ram Air IV engine, but unfortunately it was totaled out when rammed from behind by a careless construction truck driver while I was stopped at a red light waiting for the light to change.
That 041 RAIV cam was a beast and had to the most radical factory hydraulic cam available from any make, especially with the factory 1.65 ratio rocker arms.
That was predictable from the numbers. BOTH cars are completely bitchin', however...I'm a Pontiac purist so I really was digging the Judge (still,...killer time for the poncho!). COPO anything gonna haul ass as seen by low 12sec ET. Love to see these cars run with open exhaust and some sticky tires...WHEW!!
Man you can't beat those old muscle cars even though the ones today are faster and more powerful just can't beat the sound of those high compression carburetor engines screaming.
Superchargers make a big difference, and in the 60s and early 70s the big focus was on NVH, noise vibration and harshness (particularly with Ford). They had limitations on what they could do for liability as well. New cars have the high strength steel cage around the passengers, running a new car into a 60s car ends up with the 60s car being folded up. They can make cars faster now and not be as concerned about killing people with them. A 12 second ride is beyond most people's ability, I scared lots of people with a very mild 455 in a 79 Formula running low 12s to mid 11s in the 90s. I get hit by a new Kia when I am driving my '65 GTO, I am probably going home in a box, and they will walk away without a scratch. That opens up lots of possibilities for what they can build now. The RA IV was a bit rowdy and required a considerable amount of work to keep it running well, due to the tech available at the time. It was all valvetrain work, mostly because GM had a habit of limiting Pontiac for various reasons, and better parts were not allowed by GM. Can't have a Tempest lapping Corvettes on a road course now can we? After that exact thing happened(look it up, its a cool story), GM really put the screws to PMD. Pontiac dominating with the 421 on NASCAR tracks and NHRA stock/super stock classes in 61 and 62 is part of the reason for the 63 ban on racing. With the improvements made in '67 the Pontiac became a world class engine, but it was held back by GM. Compare new engines to the sbc and small mopars, then yeah the new cars are several orders of magnitude better. No argument there at all. EFI makes a huge difference now that it has advanced to the point its at, in the 80s and early 90s it was severely limited. Now they can get good drivability with acceptable NVH and produce supercharged cars that you can drive every day. The new cars lack something the old cars have, there isn't a word for it really. The way I describe it is the new cars are like an appliance, the old stuff is not. Perhaps its how you're flirting with death driving 60s era cars, even with modern, brakes, tires, etc. I enjoy using modern tech on my 40-55 year old Pontiac engines, EFI, rollerized valvetrain, better ignitions, and the overdrive transmissions with lock up converters are awesome. I still love building/driving Qjets and Holley carbs, but I like how easy EFI is to make work very well. Throw EFI and a supercharger on that RA IV and its a whole new animal... then the tires are the big problem.. really big problem. Demon what?
Me too. I know the modern performance cars are faster, more comfortable, get better fuel economy, and steer and stop better but I don't care. I'll take that 69 COPO Camaro over a new Camaro SS or Z28 any day. The new ones just don't have the cool factor like the classics do
Thump Er all these old cars need is aq1 suspension, chassis work, 6/4 piston brakes, and ill be happy, and update the steering. I love the old cars with minor updates.
Hi C & Z Great race even with the handicap of a 4 speed that GTO can move, anything that can do 12's is mighty fast in my book. Love the Carousel Red on the Judge, how can you not & yes that was a mean idle. Your number 1 Fan in Australia Louis Kats from Melbourne Australia ☺ 👍
With their extra gears providing for better torque management, along with ultra-quick shifting capabilities, automatic transmission cars are quicker than standards these days, but that wasn't the case back when these cars were built. 4 speed standard equipped cars were typically quicker than 3 speed automatics back in the muscle car era, as long as the driver was capable.
My '69 GTO has a 455 but I used the Ram Air IV (041) cam in it and it idles just like the GTO in the video, although through 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Flow Master mufflers. Everyone thinks it must have a huge aftermarket cam but the RA IV cam was ahead of it's time. The Goat ran great in this race but the 427 out classes even the Ram Air IV as it does most other engines. The only thing close I think is the Hemi.
@@badass6.0powerstroke10 I would have to see your data on that. Going off vintage main steam magazine tests the 426 Hemi holds #4 thru #9 of the top 50 quickest cars. Yes the 427 Ford holds the number 1 spot but it's in an AC Cobra and I think even a 302 would be quick in that lightweight car. Car Craft actually got a bunch of 12 second runs out of stock Hemi's back in the day but they tuned the engines at the track so those times aren't counted. Super Stock magazine got a '69 Hemi Roadrunner to go 13.38 @ 108 in January of '69. That's awful close to Motor Trend getting the '70 GS to run 13.38@ 105 in January of 1970. We can all tell stories but nothing can change these road tests that actually happened when the cars were new. Either way the rivalry between the Hemi and the Stage 1 is legendary and rightly so.
I would like to know how the 1970 GS stage 2 would compare with everything else? The stage one was a bad ass car but the stage 2 was something else altogether. There was a race team back in the 70s that ran the stage 2 Buick with quarter mile times in the 10-second range. That's with all off-the-shelf Buick parts.
@@martyharless5097 I think the Stage 2 is awesome too. But in all fairness it was never actually offered installed from the factory. Pontiac had the Ram Air V that was installed in a few cars for testing and was available over the counter but I think it was really overrated. If you want to run a Stage 2 then you need to run it against cars like the '68 Hemi Dart or the ZL1 Camaro. Cars that weren't necessarily regular production cars but yet used factory parts for the most part and were totally fast.
@@1967davethewave they all had their special cars. Although the stage 2 did not come from the factory that way it was still available from the dealer with Buick parts. When comparing the stage 1 Buick to any of the Hemi cars you have to remember the Hemi engines were racing engines. The only reason they were available in passenger vehicles was so they could qualify to race them in NASCAR.
Remember Berger Chevrolet very well. They had ads every month in both Carcraft and Hot Rod magazines picturing Jim Luikens, who managed their high performance department, and all of the short block and long block engine assemblies they had for sale. In 1975, I drove my '72 307 Nova up to Berger from Kalamazoo, and had them install a 327-365 HP solid lifter 11:1 compression engine with the 202 angle plug heads. I originally wanted the 350-370 HP LT1, but they wanted 250.00 extra. They had the car for approximately one month as the angle plug heads were on backorder at the time. The total cost for removing the original 307 boat anchor, and building and installing the 327 was 1575.00. The car ran 12.70's @ 115 mph with 3:73 gears at Martin, and NEVER lost to a big block equipped Chevy. Never ran into a Copo however. End of story.
5:55 Boy that sound does bring back memories , and they are from the 80s , too new for most guys. A buddy bought a 67 gto with a ram air 4 in it , and she ran strong.
@@CarsAndZebras , Back in the mid to late 70s, I owned a 69 GTO Judge with a Ram Air III and a 4 speed. It had pretty much every option available in 69 except for that Ram Air IV engine, and even came equipped with a factory 8 track. Most Judges were Carousel Red but mine was Goldenrod Yellow with a dark olive stripe and olive interior. It was a beautiful car, but unfortunately it was rear ended at a traffic light by a construction truck and totaled while I was stationed in the Navy in Puerto Rico. There was only a 4 HP increase claimed, from 366 to 370 between the Ram Air III and Ram Air IV engine, but anyone who looked at the engine specs knew that was a bogus claim. If there was any further doubt that those were two very different engines, all you had to do was listen to them idling next to each other.
These cars do sound awesome especially with headers and low restriction mufflers. I bought a 69 The Judge in 1978 and I still own the car. Mine has that engine 370 hp. I was not introduced until late 1968 in the 1969 GTO’s. The Ram Air 2 would have been in your friends 1967. All judges had Ram Air engines and air scoop controls standard in the 1969 1970 models.
In the day,Nickey,COPO,and Yenko Camaros were special dealer prepped drag specific cars.Dealer prepped 427 Thunderbolts and 426 Hemis were the only comparable cars at that time.That being said,the RA IV Pontiac was a 400 cu in beast which required other makes to add 50+ cu. in to their line-up to dominate over it in the domestic car market.The only two examples of this car I remember racing were consistent 12.5 cars.I put a bone stock crate RA IV in my '64 GTO vert and ran 12.2's and later in a '64 LeMans coupe that ran an 11.7 time only.Because of the Manual steering box in that car,I was able to purchase 2 1/8 headers from the only company that had made a pair for this engine in this body, JR Headers(defunct).This engine thru those open headers sounded like a B-Gasser.An awesome engine it was.Traded it for a wife and kids.
Love the torque available on these old cars. I was at a marine trans class talking to the instructor(late 70's), he worked for the San Antonio Southwest Research Center for a time. They reprogrammed or tweeked OE problems that cropped up as a 3rd party developer. One GM customer was a Grandma that ordered a 68 Chevelle with a 375HP 396/Turbo 400. The customer complaint was it chirped the tires when shifting from 1st to 2nd often. I drove a 70 1/2 Z28 402/2.19/1.88/TH400/4:56 and drifted down main street of my home town. The things we do for fun.
My friend has 69 judge. He swapped out the IV and installed the tunnel port. He made a lot of $ on the street. Nobody knew it was the tunnel port great times we had.
That's funny, I used to work with a guy who was of age during the 70's, and he said they did the same thing. Go buy a car for $50, then absolutely destroy it just as some weekend fun.
Kurt Zimmerman, I agree. I have a '70 GTO and had a '68 Firebird 400 4spd car. My friends even compliment on how much better the GTO rides and handles better than the Firebird. Plus the bigger trunk is awesome for day trips to shows and bringing the BBQ and cooler.
@Tankmaster 160 Camaros have subframes like imports. You can improve the car with subframe connectors. But it rides like it belongs in the compact car class, like an import. Want the real muscle car ride, there's only one GTO, the rest are copies.
@Tankmaster 160 wow, I definitely got your attention. Ha ha. You do know your muscle car history. I was shocked to learn even the '68 Charger wasn't a full frame car. I've ridden in many muscle cars. Owned a '68 Firebird, Camaro copy. Rode like I was in a Honda. Even Hemi couldn't beat Pontiac during the Swiss cheese Catalina's. Then Dodge sponsored "Silver Bullet", cleaning house on Woodward. But Pontiac wasn't allowed. So Jim Wangers, secretly engineered "Black Bird", killed "Silver Bullet", everytime. When you get time, check out "Big Chief" yes it's a GTO, beating everything at the track. Pontiac made their motors as strokers right from the factory. My Goat is not the quickest, but it will holeshot all street bikes. Take care
@Tankmaster 160 you really are bothered. Like I said I'm speaking from experience. Sure Camaros are muscle cars and look great. But at the end of the day they're a unibody car. There is a difference between a full frame car and a unibody. That's why they never made a pickup with a "Unibody".
@@kevinmanning4880 I had a 69 GTO convertible. I still have a picture of it, and I wish there was some way to post it here for all to see. The greatest thing that the GTO accomplished was being a car that could really haul on the street or drag strip, and still go to the grocery store. It's versatility was a huge factor in the car's success.
The GTO wasn't hooking up, due to traction issues at the start. Plus a 4 gear against an automatic, the driver becomes a factor. Still the GTO was pulling and gaining on the camaro mid way. You didn't let them switch lanes which wasn't fair because usually one lane is better than the other.
My elementary school crush mom had one. Since I lived on a major street thru town, I would see them at least once a day. Not sure if I was more happy to see her or the car.
The rating of the 427 COPO was too low. I have seen dyno test of them making 500 hps. The 69 COPO Chevelle were faster than the lengendary 70's LS6. Thought I had seen somewhere the manufacters were taking the hp dyno rating at 5000 rpm and posting them as the overall advertised number.
I had a 1969 GTO Judge... I remember paying $ 850.000 for it in 1976. Hood scoop open and close under the dash...Great runner and driver,loved it... Costs a bit more now to replace it.. :)
"Here Comes the Judge" was a comedy routine that was performed by Pigmeat Markham. The song that was released by Markham in 1968 on Chess Records came from that routine, and the song became an international hit. I am old enough to remember when the song came out. I once saw Markham perform the song on TV, but I can't remember the name of the show anymore.
The '69 L79 SS 396 Chevelle with 375 (under rated) HP had a loping, deep throated, rumble at idle that warned street racers to back off. Mash on that gas pedal and watch a race between the gas gauge needle to empty and the speedometer hand to 120. Damn, I wish I still had that Chevelle.
@@CarsAndZebras Like a 421 or 428 powered 64/65 GTO like was used against the Ferrari GTO? Lets put a 428 HO from the GP in a 67-69 Firebird and see what happens. Pontiac wasn't allowed to sell them like that though, even with the COPO 'loophole' but chevy was.. I wonder why.
@@1Bandit455 I am inclined to agree, but ya know chevy has to have all the help they can get. They always have, its automotive affirmative action.. lol Chevy the feminist of GM
Truly entertaining video even for a Mopar or no car senior citizen. And i owned a 454 Vette for almost 4 years... but whats not to like here? Nothing is what. I lkve them both. They arent me but they are freakin gorgeous and full on respect! I want my RoadRunner back. It was an amazing car that i just kept putting miles on. Sold it for 800. Sold my Vette for 6900. Loved the humour and visits back with the tv shots. Thanks for putting a smile on my face and PS...i picked the Camaro to win. Bingo!
Both cars very fast and both probably making 500hp! The 427 though was king of the streets. Pontiac was told by parent company GM they wouldnt let them come out with the Ram Air 5 probably because they didnt want it to surpass the 427.
Predictably the Camaro won. Two fine cars regardless. It breaks my Heart to see the bleachers that empty. In my racing days (70's & 80's) the bleachers were packed with standing room only in the pits. Thumb up for keeping it alive. ;-)
1970 Buick GS455 Stage 2. All off-the-shelf Buick parts that would even make the stage one look like it was running in slow motion. So many people think the stage 1 Buick was the master of all Buick muscle cars. They have no idea of the stage 2.
Unless you talk about Corvette. I've been going to drags all my life, and at the end of the day it's mostly a Vette with big cubes & pushrods. Especially in the stock stuff.
370 to 425 hp, so 55 hp difference. Both engines are underrated though, so who knows how much real difference there is. As far as the weight, according to the video the Camaro is 22 pounds lighter, which is inconsequential. Manual 4 speeds were typically quicker than automatic 3 speeds back when these cars were built, as long as the driver of the manual was capable. Not overpowering the factory skinny tires would require some skills getting out of the hole though.
Having lived through the musclecar era, i can attest the idea of running across a COPO or Yenko car was practically unheard of. However, you would regularly see cars such as the GTO Judge on the street which made it far more accessible to the regular guy.
Working at a gas station in the mid 70s, a 1968 Yenko Camaro came in for gas. I asked the owner about it. He said the 427 blew up and he had a 350 in it.
I had 2 68 Camaros, a hardtop and a convertible. HT had a 396, softtop a 327 auto. A 70 Gto Ram air IV 400 CI with a TH 400 auto. It says 370 hp but it was higher than that. I ran my Goat in the 12s and 110 in the quarter just like the Judge. Wish I still had it and the convertible.
IN 1974 OR 75 MY FRIEND BOUGHT A BLUE 69 COPO CAMARO FOR $2000.00 IT HAD AROUND 7K MILES ON IT AND IT LOOKED GREAT AND REAL FAST .... THE BEST CAR IN TOWN EVER !!!!!
Shoot, I had a '69 SS396 Chevelle TH400 L74 posi that use to eat Goats all day long, and during the time I owned it I only ran one '69 "The Judge" and beat it. Well anyway the "bow-tie" dealer told me it was an L74 and probably was as it had "Turbo-Jet 396-350 HP on the low restriction, chrome air breather also remembered it had factory chrome valve covers too. I also remember that the speedometer hand and the fuel gauge hand use to race to see which one could disappear the quickest.
Camaro had 27 cubic inches, solid cam, and weight advantage. A 428 in a firebird would of been a better comparison. Love both of them though. Nothing like old muscle.
@@joshmeek5346 RA4 400 is more comparable to the L72 427. The RA5 400 is more comparable to the LS6 454. So this drag race is pretty much dead on engine-wise. A 69 L72 COPO Chevelle would've made it dead on in terms of cars.....but not many guys beat on their COPO Chevelles. lol
@@Trebor-gw8lt the 428 HO is more in line with the 427 in the Camaro, but it was only available in big cars and the GP. Pontiac was not allowed to use the COPO loophole, but chevy was. The 396 was no match for the RA II and RA IV, even D port 400s beat on them. A 428 HO (which is a D port, not a round port like the RA II and IV)in a 67-69 Bird is low 12s to mid 11s all day, and no solid lifters needed unlike the chevy. Put the round port heads on a 428 or 455 and its going to be hard for the chevy to keep up, even the vaunted LS6... which is why it wasn't allowed until 71-74 in the Firebird and GTO, with 8:1 compression. Though the 455 HO in 71/72 is still easily capable of 12s, as is the 455 SD in 73/74, with the 11.3:1-11.5:1 that the RA II/IV have on a 455 they would have been factory monsters. Alas... not allowed by GM. Hasn't stopped us from doing it ourselves though. This has had me thinking.. I have a 71 Formula 400 that is a rolling shell, and a special ordered high option 72 455 HO Formula. I could get another set of HO heads and build a 455 shortblock for them, then instead of having a fully optioned power everything car like my 72, the 71 is manual brakes, steering, and windows. A 71 455 HO clone might make for a very fun pure stock drags car. Do the resto on the 72 and race them both, heavy and not so heavy... that sounds like fun. The RAV is simply ludicrous. Its more along the lines of the tunnel port 427 Fords and 426 race Hemi, those heads on a 428 or 455 make it so easy to make 800hp. On an IAII block with 535ci 1000hp/tq on pump gas is REAL easy. There are some turbo RAV's coming out soon since two guys are reproducing the V head in aluminum. Lynn McCarty and Don Johnston both have them, Lynn's are mostly a stock replacement, Don's are more along the lines of a race head. Big Chief is only running Edelbrock RAIV copies, not even the biggest porting they can handle either, far from it. But that is a long way from these two running pure stock.
Not a Chevy guy but my favorite BowTies have always been sleepers like the 69 COPO 427 Camaro's and Chevelle's and the Plain Jane Biscayne's and Bel Air's with the factory HiPo 409's(1962-65), L78 396(1965 only), and L72 427(1966 and 68-69). Never cared much for stripes, spoilers, and fancy wheels and trim. Most of that shit just drew unwanted attention and added weight therefore making the cars slower. I only care about what makes the car faster. A bench seat, a 4 speed, and plain steelies with poverty caps is more my style. That Ram Air IV Judge is awesome but I'll take that L72 COPO Camaro if I had to choose one or the other
A, With the claimed 425 HP in the video, it sounds like the engine was the iron block/iron head L72. BTW, the L88 427 is the one with aluminum heads. The ZL1 has both aluminum heads and an aluminum block.
@@bjensne123 , Yes, but the question was which one of these engines was in the car in the video, and based on the specs provided in the video, it appears to be the L72. Since Jordan referenced the ZL1 as an aluminum headed engine, I just thought I would throw the information out there that the L88 engine has aluminum heads, while the ZL1 has both an aluminum block and aluminum heads.
And I am quite literally watching this video while taking a $#!+ after drinking my morning Folgers. I tried working on my car but my butt had other plans. So you just described my entire morning to this point.
SparkZ1420 A couple of tenths? More like .72, which is an eternity. And, manuals with a competent driver were MUCH quicker back then. BTW, I’m a Pontiac guy.
Not a very good matchup. Would've been better if you found a 69 FB, with a RAV, to compete against the COPO. Or an L-78 Chevelle, against the same Goat. But the GTO was commendable, with it's 111 MPH. You know there was traction issues, and most 69 Camaros that I've seen have great 60' times. Cool vid, none the less. Thanks. :)
anyone still really believe that a 340 Demon would normally really beat an L-78 equipped Nova. The L-72 and L-78 are essentially the same motor, and in this video the L-72 tromped on the GTO even with the handicap of an Turbo 400 behind it, and the GTO was much quicker than the featured 340 Demon.
Was the copo running those stock skinny tires? Good launch but, definitely a condition gear waggle. Ram 4air was overated. The Pontiac was capable of much more power but, you had to build it.
These are F.A.S.T. Class Cars. Factory Appearing Stock Tires where engine modifications are allowed. The Judge was a 14 second car off the showroom floor.
That judge has flow master Exhaust or something. I grew up next to those my uncle had one and they didn't sound that nice. They sounded nice but not that nice. Still any v8 gets my ears votes.
I read that the FAST racers that use automatic transmissions adjust the line pressure lower on the 1-2 shift to prevent the rear tires from breaking loose
@@CarsAndZebras I read that in an old issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines. The guy running that wicked black '69 Road Runner 440 6-pack, mentioned that as one of his tricks
@@samgillies2011 - I’ll bet they did something like that on the TH400 in the L78 cars... it apparently was tuned to higher shift points to account for its higher redline
What do you guys think about these two cars? Find us on Instagram if you want sneak peeks into future videos! Instagram search: carsandzebras
Love em both, but copo is my favorite
Chuck - and you should stop complaining about dumb things. FYI, that Camaro runs an 11.5 ET when fine tuned... That’s quicker than the 2019 Corvette Stingray, all with 50-year-old technology. So yeah, it is a nasty car. I bet you’re a ton of fun at parties 👍
@@CarsAndZebras I totally agree it's always somebody posting negative comments about your videos. If you can't find anything nice to say don't watch the videos or keep your negative ass comments to your self the world would be a better place if negative people simply did not exist
@Chuck Barnes no new car will ever be able to compare to a old school muscle car. These modern cars always get pounded by old school muscle cars at the drags sir please have several seats
Chuck - you are creating an argument that isn’t there. No one said modern cars aren’t quick. But if you hadn’t noticed, this video features classic cars. Also, no one is forcing you to watch. Don’t like it? Hit the “x” in the corner of the screen and get lost. 👍
I'm a Pontiac and Mopar fan. That COPO Camaro just came out of the hole kicking butt. Good race. 👍Nothing like good old fashioned Detroit iron.
Both are pretty cool 😎
@Tim Podhorn Plain jane steel body. Not even a radio. Never made from aluminum.
@@MedicatedOMO , Tim was probably referring to engines with his aluminum reference, such as the 427 aluminum headed L88, or all aluminum ZL1.
I'm a Mopar guy but I love both of these cars. The 69 RAIV GTO is definitely one of my favorite Pontiac's ever made. The RAIV had a wicked sounding idle for having a hydraulic camshaft. My favorite Chevy of all is a 69 Camaro ZL-1 but that iron block L72 COPO Camaro would do just fine. I love the COPO cars because they were all such sleepers. They just looked like base model Camaro's and Malibu's but had Chevy's meanest regular production big block under the hood which usually only was available in the Corvette or full size Chevy's
@@jeremythompson9122 , I love the COPO sleepers too, but that blue Yenko shown at the 1:04 mark is gorgeous. I had lesser versions of the Camaro and GTO during my younger, single days. My Camaro was a 67 RS/SS 350 convertible, and a couple of years later I picked up a 69 GTO Judge, with the Ram Air III engine. Both cars were 4 speeds, and I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite from the two, although the GTO with it's 366 HP 400 c.i. engine was a stronger runner than the Camaro that was equipped with a 295 HP. 350 c.i. engine. I owned both of these vehicles while I was in the Navy, stationed in Puerto Rico, and the year round warm weather over there made every day convertible weather day. The GTO was optioned out to the max except for the Ram Air IV engine, but unfortunately it was totaled out when rammed from behind by a careless construction truck driver while I was stopped at a red light waiting for the light to change.
That 041 RAIV cam was a beast and had to the most radical factory hydraulic cam available from any make, especially with the factory 1.65 ratio rocker arms.
A ram air IV 4-speed Judge is quite rare. 6-figure car price in “today’s money”
That was predictable from the numbers. BOTH cars are completely bitchin', however...I'm a Pontiac purist so I really was digging the Judge (still,...killer time for the poncho!). COPO anything gonna haul ass as seen by low 12sec ET. Love to see these cars run with open exhaust and some sticky tires...WHEW!!
Neat cars 👍 The Camaro when fine tuned runs 11.5 (you’ll see that in future videos). Open exhaust and slicks it’d be close to 10s
Man you can't beat those old muscle cars even though the ones today are faster and more powerful just can't beat the sound of those high compression carburetor engines screaming.
True, even better in person 👍
Superchargers make a big difference, and in the 60s and early 70s the big focus was on NVH, noise vibration and harshness (particularly with Ford). They had limitations on what they could do for liability as well. New cars have the high strength steel cage around the passengers, running a new car into a 60s car ends up with the 60s car being folded up. They can make cars faster now and not be as concerned about killing people with them. A 12 second ride is beyond most people's ability, I scared lots of people with a very mild 455 in a 79 Formula running low 12s to mid 11s in the 90s. I get hit by a new Kia when I am driving my '65 GTO, I am probably going home in a box, and they will walk away without a scratch. That opens up lots of possibilities for what they can build now.
The RA IV was a bit rowdy and required a considerable amount of work to keep it running well, due to the tech available at the time. It was all valvetrain work, mostly because GM had a habit of limiting Pontiac for various reasons, and better parts were not allowed by GM. Can't have a Tempest lapping Corvettes on a road course now can we? After that exact thing happened(look it up, its a cool story), GM really put the screws to PMD. Pontiac dominating with the 421 on NASCAR tracks and NHRA stock/super stock classes in 61 and 62 is part of the reason for the 63 ban on racing. With the improvements made in '67 the Pontiac became a world class engine, but it was held back by GM.
Compare new engines to the sbc and small mopars, then yeah the new cars are several orders of magnitude better. No argument there at all.
EFI makes a huge difference now that it has advanced to the point its at, in the 80s and early 90s it was severely limited. Now they can get good drivability with acceptable NVH and produce supercharged cars that you can drive every day. The new cars lack something the old cars have, there isn't a word for it really. The way I describe it is the new cars are like an appliance, the old stuff is not. Perhaps its how you're flirting with death driving 60s era cars, even with modern, brakes, tires, etc.
I enjoy using modern tech on my 40-55 year old Pontiac engines, EFI, rollerized valvetrain, better ignitions, and the overdrive transmissions with lock up converters are awesome. I still love building/driving Qjets and Holley carbs, but I like how easy EFI is to make work very well. Throw EFI and a supercharger on that RA IV and its a whole new animal... then the tires are the big problem.. really big problem. Demon what?
@@SweatyFatGuy Man that was awesome what you said and it's spot on but I still prefer the old school Detroit Steel with the modern update.
Me too. I know the modern performance cars are faster, more comfortable, get better fuel economy, and steer and stop better but I don't care. I'll take that 69 COPO Camaro over a new Camaro SS or Z28 any day. The new ones just don't have the cool factor like the classics do
Thump Er all these old cars need is aq1 suspension, chassis work, 6/4 piston brakes, and ill be happy, and update the steering. I love the old cars with minor updates.
That COPO and others he has was owned by the late Pete Simpson. His 2 Son’s own all the cars today. I personally knew Pete. Good guy.
That’s true. The sons are some of the nicest people and great drag racers, so I’m sure Pete’s smiling down at them.
Was that the chicken farmer from Ontario?
Mr Bob yes
That Camaro is nasty
Definitely
Thanks for the updates.. I was at the strip in the early 60s but then life got in the way. I missed a lot of these newer cars...
Time to go out and buy one! 😁
Hi C & Z
Great race even with the handicap of a 4 speed that GTO can move, anything that can do 12's is mighty fast in my book.
Love the Carousel Red on the Judge, how can you not & yes that was a mean idle.
Your number 1 Fan in Australia
Louis Kats from Melbourne Australia ☺ 👍
Thanks for watching! Stay away from those fires!
And just think Louis, that was on 70 series bias ply tires. Imagine slicks on both those cars?
@@1967davethewave
You are right about that 1967davethewave
1967davethewave absolutely! It’s gotta be tricky as hell feathering the clutch with skinny tires and Gobs of torque.
With their extra gears providing for better torque management, along with ultra-quick shifting capabilities, automatic transmission cars are quicker than standards these days, but that wasn't the case back when these cars were built. 4 speed standard equipped cars were typically quicker than 3 speed automatics back in the muscle car era, as long as the driver was capable.
I haven’t seen the race yet but I’m putting my money on the Copo Camaro. 👍👍👍
1969 GTO Judge had one in 76 ..I was 18 bought it for 900.00
I had to run the numbers on this, and adjusting for inflation that would be around $4100 today. Crazy
sold a 1963 SWC corvette in 1978 for $1500 and made money on it
My '69 GTO has a 455 but I used the Ram Air IV (041) cam in it and it idles just like the GTO in the video, although through 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Flow Master mufflers. Everyone thinks it must have a huge aftermarket cam but the RA IV cam was ahead of it's time. The Goat ran great in this race but the 427 out classes even the Ram Air IV as it does most other engines. The only thing close I think is the Hemi.
The Hemi was Very Over Rated, The Buick Stage 1 455 would run over it. But the 427 FORD will dominate All. Even The COPO 427 Cars.
@@badass6.0powerstroke10 I would have to see your data on that. Going off vintage main steam magazine tests the 426 Hemi holds #4 thru #9 of the top 50 quickest cars. Yes the 427 Ford holds the number 1 spot but it's in an AC Cobra and I think even a 302 would be quick in that lightweight car. Car Craft actually got a bunch of 12 second runs out of stock Hemi's back in the day but they tuned the engines at the track so those times aren't counted. Super Stock magazine got a '69 Hemi Roadrunner to go 13.38 @ 108 in January of '69. That's awful close to Motor Trend getting the '70 GS to run 13.38@ 105 in January of 1970. We can all tell stories but nothing can change these road tests that actually happened when the cars were new. Either way the rivalry between the Hemi and the Stage 1 is legendary and rightly so.
I would like to know how the 1970 GS stage 2 would compare with everything else? The stage one was a bad ass car but the stage 2 was something else altogether. There was a race team back in the 70s that ran the stage 2 Buick with quarter mile times in the 10-second range. That's with all off-the-shelf Buick parts.
@@martyharless5097 I think the Stage 2 is awesome too. But in all fairness it was never actually offered installed from the factory. Pontiac had the Ram Air V that was installed in a few cars for testing and was available over the counter but I think it was really overrated. If you want to run a Stage 2 then you need to run it against cars like the '68 Hemi Dart or the ZL1 Camaro. Cars that weren't necessarily regular production cars but yet used factory parts for the most part and were totally fast.
@@1967davethewave they all had their special cars. Although the stage 2 did not come from the factory that way it was still available from the dealer with Buick parts. When comparing the stage 1 Buick to any of the Hemi cars you have to remember the Hemi engines were racing engines. The only reason they were available in passenger vehicles was so they could qualify to race them in NASCAR.
Remember Berger Chevrolet very well. They had ads every month in both Carcraft and Hot Rod magazines picturing Jim Luikens, who managed their high performance department, and all of the short block and long block engine assemblies they had for sale. In 1975, I drove my '72 307 Nova up to Berger from Kalamazoo, and had them install a 327-365 HP solid lifter 11:1 compression engine with the 202 angle plug heads. I originally wanted the 350-370 HP LT1, but they wanted 250.00 extra. They had the car for approximately one month as the angle plug heads were on backorder at the time. The total cost for removing the original 307 boat anchor, and building and installing the 327 was 1575.00. The car ran 12.70's @ 115 mph with 3:73 gears at Martin, and NEVER lost to a big block equipped Chevy. Never ran into a Copo however. End of story.
Pretty impressive, but still quite a bit of money back then!
@@CarsAndZebras Yup... about half the cost of that same 1972 Nova that I bought new...paid 3150.00 out the door.
@@L72Chevelle427 do ya still have it?
5:55
Boy that sound does bring back memories , and they are from the 80s , too new for most guys.
A buddy bought a 67 gto with a ram air 4 in it , and she ran strong.
That GTO was one of the best sounding cars at the Pure Stocks this year
They aren't from the 80's buckoo!
@@davidviar765
Well, my memories are , that's what I meant.
@@CarsAndZebras , Back in the mid to late 70s, I owned a 69 GTO Judge with a Ram Air III and a 4 speed. It had pretty much every option available in 69 except for that Ram Air IV engine, and even came equipped with a factory 8 track. Most Judges were Carousel Red but mine was Goldenrod Yellow with a dark olive stripe and olive interior. It was a beautiful car, but unfortunately it was rear ended at a traffic light by a construction truck and totaled while I was stationed in the Navy in Puerto Rico. There was only a 4 HP increase claimed, from 366 to 370 between the Ram Air III and Ram Air IV engine, but anyone who looked at the engine specs knew that was a bogus claim. If there was any further doubt that those were two very different engines, all you had to do was listen to them idling next to each other.
These cars do sound awesome especially with headers and low restriction mufflers. I bought a 69 The Judge in 1978 and I still own the car. Mine has that engine 370 hp. I was not introduced until late 1968 in the 1969 GTO’s. The Ram Air 2 would have been in your friends 1967. All judges had Ram Air engines and air scoop controls standard in the 1969 1970 models.
In the day,Nickey,COPO,and Yenko Camaros were special dealer prepped drag specific cars.Dealer prepped 427 Thunderbolts and 426 Hemis were the only comparable cars at that time.That being said,the RA IV Pontiac was a 400 cu in beast which required other makes to add 50+ cu. in to their line-up to dominate over it in the domestic car market.The only two examples of this car I remember racing were consistent 12.5 cars.I put a bone stock crate RA IV in my '64 GTO vert and ran 12.2's and later in a '64 LeMans coupe that ran an 11.7 time only.Because of the Manual steering box in that car,I was able to purchase 2 1/8 headers from the only company that had made a pair for this engine in this body, JR Headers(defunct).This engine thru those open headers sounded like a B-Gasser.An awesome engine it was.Traded it for a wife and kids.
Love the torque available on these old cars. I was at a marine trans class talking to the instructor(late 70's), he worked for the San Antonio Southwest Research Center for a time. They reprogrammed or tweeked OE problems that cropped up as a 3rd party developer. One GM customer was a Grandma that ordered a 68 Chevelle with a 375HP 396/Turbo 400. The customer complaint was it chirped the tires when shifting from 1st to 2nd often.
I drove a 70 1/2 Z28 402/2.19/1.88/TH400/4:56 and drifted down main street of my home town. The things we do for fun.
My friend has 69 judge. He swapped out the IV and installed the tunnel port. He made a lot of $ on the street. Nobody knew it was the tunnel port great times we had.
MMMMMM, tunnel port. Yum!
When I was a kid in the sixties and seventies we would wreck a muscle car every weekend and go get another one on Monday , they were cheap as hell !
@ Bruce Holinight, Cheap?!! Sounds like you had some White privilege Boi, LOL !
(Biden administration era)
'Comin to cancel you son!!
and why would you wreck them?
@@kimmorrison9169 Drunk and only cost $100 !
That's funny, I used to work with a guy who was of age during the 70's, and he said they did the same thing. Go buy a car for $50, then absolutely destroy it just as some weekend fun.
I could be wrong but I believe that " here comes the Judge " line was originally a Pigmeat Markham line.
I'd still take the Pontiac because it has a full frame and 4 link rear suspension. much more comfortable on old yeller!
Kurt Zimmerman, I agree. I have a '70 GTO and had a '68 Firebird 400 4spd car. My friends even compliment on how much better the GTO rides and handles better than the Firebird. Plus the bigger trunk is awesome for day trips to shows and bringing the BBQ and cooler.
@Tankmaster 160 Camaros have subframes like imports. You can improve the car with subframe connectors. But it rides like it belongs in the compact car class, like an import. Want the real muscle car ride, there's only one GTO, the rest are copies.
@Tankmaster 160 wow, I definitely got your attention. Ha ha. You do know your muscle car history. I was shocked to learn even the '68 Charger wasn't a full frame car. I've ridden in many muscle cars. Owned a '68 Firebird, Camaro copy. Rode like I was in a Honda. Even Hemi couldn't beat Pontiac during the Swiss cheese Catalina's. Then Dodge sponsored "Silver Bullet", cleaning house on Woodward. But Pontiac wasn't allowed. So Jim Wangers, secretly engineered "Black Bird", killed "Silver Bullet", everytime. When you get time, check out "Big Chief" yes it's a GTO, beating everything at the track. Pontiac made their motors as strokers right from the factory. My Goat is not the quickest, but it will holeshot all street bikes. Take care
@Tankmaster 160 you really are bothered. Like I said I'm speaking from experience. Sure Camaros are muscle cars and look great. But at the end of the day they're a unibody car. There is a difference between a full frame car and a unibody. That's why they never made a pickup with a "Unibody".
@@kevinmanning4880 I had a 69 GTO convertible. I still have a picture of it, and I wish there was some way to post it here for all to see. The greatest thing that the GTO accomplished was being a car that could really haul on the street or drag strip, and still go to the grocery store. It's versatility was a huge factor in the car's success.
I’m impressed by the Judge. I always regarded that model as mostly a marketing gimmick with no real substance.
The GTO wasn't hooking up, due to traction issues at the start. Plus a 4 gear against an automatic, the driver becomes a factor. Still the GTO was pulling and gaining on the camaro mid way. You didn't let them switch lanes which wasn't fair because usually one lane is better than the other.
How that Camaro put the power down on those tires is impressive
My elementary school crush mom had one. Since I lived on a major street thru town, I would see them at least once a day. Not sure if I was more happy to see her or the car.
Got to be the car 😎
The rating of the 427 COPO was too low. I have seen dyno test of them making 500 hps. The 69 COPO Chevelle were faster than the lengendary 70's LS6. Thought I had seen somewhere the manufacters were taking the hp dyno rating at 5000 rpm and posting them as the overall advertised number.
Great history and specs on the cars along with some comedy. Plus the race. Winning format.
I had a 1969 GTO Judge... I remember paying $ 850.000 for it in 1976. Hood scoop open and close under the dash...Great runner and driver,loved it... Costs a bit more now to replace it.. :)
"Here Comes the Judge" was a comedy routine that was performed by Pigmeat Markham. The song that was released by Markham in 1968 on Chess Records came from that routine, and the song became an international hit. I am old enough to remember when the song came out. I once saw Markham perform the song on TV, but I can't remember the name of the show anymore.
I love the copo or the Yanko cars.
Both pretty cool! 👍
Cars And Zebras a Yenko is a COPO, but not all COPO’s are Yenko’s.
The COPO really put out about 500 HP.
Well I can remember the summer of 69 I was 7 riding in a Judge and it setting in the front yard memories
12.23 on those skinny tires. Gotta love it
Judge got judged by the COPO. Verdict: You run like a girl.
The Pontiac actually stayed together for a trip down the track. That's the real miracle.
The COPO fought the law and he won.
We know you real morning routine my friend. And THAT'S the best part of waking up.
The '69 L79 SS 396 Chevelle with 375 (under rated) HP had a loping, deep throated, rumble at idle that warned street racers to back off. Mash on that gas pedal and watch a race between the gas gauge needle to empty and the speedometer hand to 120. Damn, I wish I still had that Chevelle.
Thanks for explaining COPO...did not know that.
Thanks for watching!
2 great cars. Very impressed with the Goat especially but there is no catching the COPO.
That’s true, takes a pretty special car to knock off the COPOs 👍
@@CarsAndZebras Like a 421 or 428 powered 64/65 GTO like was used against the Ferrari GTO? Lets put a 428 HO from the GP in a 67-69 Firebird and see what happens. Pontiac wasn't allowed to sell them like that though, even with the COPO 'loophole' but chevy was.. I wonder why.
@@SweatyFatGuy Royal Pontiac etc. did put 428's in GTO's Firebirds those should be allowed if those Copo's are
@@1Bandit455 I am inclined to agree, but ya know chevy has to have all the help they can get. They always have, its automotive affirmative action.. lol Chevy the feminist of GM
I'm really beginning to get tired of informing people of the 1970 Buick 455 stage 2. The Camaro would be looking at the Buick tail lights all day long
Truly entertaining video even for a Mopar or no car senior citizen. And i owned a 454 Vette for almost 4 years... but whats not to like here? Nothing is what. I lkve them both. They arent me but they are freakin gorgeous and full on respect! I want my RoadRunner back. It was an amazing car that i just kept putting miles on. Sold it for 800. Sold my Vette for 6900. Loved the humour and visits back with the tv shots. Thanks for putting a smile on my face and PS...i picked the Camaro to win. Bingo!
Nothing like classic muscle cars.
Both cars very fast and both probably making 500hp! The 427 though was king of the streets. Pontiac was told by parent company GM they wouldnt let them come out with the Ram Air 5 probably because they didnt want it to surpass the 427.
Predictably the Camaro won. Two fine cars regardless. It breaks my Heart to see the bleachers that empty. In my racing days (70's & 80's) the bleachers were packed with standing room only in the pits. Thumb up for keeping it alive. ;-)
Best car channel on utube
I love the GTO Judge! Very nice battle, mate!;-)
Whoa wait what what happened to the best two-out-of-three not that I'm complaining that the Chevy won
“Quickie” races just show a single heads-up time trial
Watching 3 races is always fun, but the Camaro is just a faster car and more runs wouldn't change that fact.
The only car that would even come close to that Camaro would be a 69 Dart GTS.
Depends on which GTS you’re talking about, but yeah, those are pretty sweet 😁
Mopar compared to GM cars NO WAY No How.. I guess you can tell I'm a die hard GM fan, dude..
frank livingston Dam Frank. Lol.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage 2. All off-the-shelf Buick parts that would even make the stage one look like it was running in slow motion. So many people think the stage 1 Buick was the master of all Buick muscle cars. They have no idea of the stage 2.
Unless you talk about Corvette. I've been going to drags all my life, and at the end of the day it's mostly a Vette with big cubes & pushrods. Especially in the stock stuff.
Pure stock but not Pure Factory ! Major difference ! Too many engines would be rust, blown up or Mecum Museums queens to drag race after 1990
That Judge had no chance down 65 hp, heavier, and a manual. Driver did well to look respectable
370 to 425 hp, so 55 hp difference. Both engines are underrated though, so who knows how much real difference there is. As far as the weight, according to the video the Camaro is 22 pounds lighter, which is inconsequential. Manual 4 speeds were typically quicker than automatic 3 speeds back when these cars were built, as long as the driver of the manual was capable. Not overpowering the factory skinny tires would require some skills getting out of the hole though.
Low 12's in stock trim and skinny tires. Plain looking too . Just bad ass.
Having lived through the musclecar era, i can attest the idea of running across a COPO or Yenko car was practically unheard of.
However, you would regularly see cars such as the GTO Judge on the street which made it far more accessible to the regular guy.
Working at a gas station in the mid 70s, a 1968 Yenko Camaro came in for gas. I asked the owner about it. He said the 427 blew up and he had a 350 in it.
I had 2 68 Camaros, a hardtop and a convertible. HT had a 396, softtop a 327 auto. A 70 Gto Ram air IV 400 CI with a TH 400 auto. It says 370 hp but it was higher than that. I ran my Goat in the 12s and 110 in the quarter just like the Judge. Wish I still had it and the convertible.
Awesome a always...2thumbs up.
The best part of waking up is waking up on the right side of the grass!
IN 1974 OR 75 MY FRIEND BOUGHT A
BLUE 69 COPO CAMARO FOR $2000.00 IT HAD AROUND 7K MILES ON IT AND IT LOOKED GREAT AND REAL FAST .... THE BEST CAR IN TOWN EVER !!!!!
The best part of waking up is taking a dump! You have a new sub sir
At 1:42 I'm sure your wife knows to wake up about 20 minutes before you... LOL
Ran across a COPO for sale a few years ago a few miles up the road from me. It was a driver too. Over 75 grand on the odo. He was asking 68 grand!
Good runs. Great cars. 👍
Shoot, I had a '69 SS396 Chevelle TH400 L74 posi that use to eat Goats all day long, and during the time I owned it I only ran one '69 "The Judge" and beat it. Well anyway the "bow-tie" dealer told me it was an L74 and probably was as it had "Turbo-Jet 396-350 HP on the low restriction, chrome air breather also remembered it had factory chrome valve covers too. I also remember that the speedometer hand and the fuel gauge hand use to race to see which one could disappear the quickest.
Camaro had 27 cubic inches, solid cam, and weight advantage. A 428 in a firebird would of been a better comparison. Love both of them though. Nothing like old muscle.
Great cars. Great race. The GREAT DAYS OF DETROIT MUSCLE 💪
Thanks that was bad ass!!!!!!
Thanks for watching!
Wow that Copo was fast
I’ll take the Pontiac judge any day that car is so awesome, defiantly my favorite
Oh how about throwing a ram air 5 GTO in this race
I’d love to. Find an owner, convince him to drag race it, and I’ll film the whole thing
Yes the Camaro won by a half second or so but there is a weight difference between the cars
@@joshmeek5346 RA4 400 is more comparable to the L72 427. The RA5 400 is more comparable to the LS6 454. So this drag race is pretty much dead on engine-wise. A 69 L72 COPO Chevelle would've made it dead on in terms of cars.....but not many guys beat on their COPO Chevelles. lol
@@Trebor-gw8lt the 428 HO is more in line with the 427 in the Camaro, but it was only available in big cars and the GP. Pontiac was not allowed to use the COPO loophole, but chevy was. The 396 was no match for the RA II and RA IV, even D port 400s beat on them. A 428 HO (which is a D port, not a round port like the RA II and IV)in a 67-69 Bird is low 12s to mid 11s all day, and no solid lifters needed unlike the chevy. Put the round port heads on a 428 or 455 and its going to be hard for the chevy to keep up, even the vaunted LS6... which is why it wasn't allowed until 71-74 in the Firebird and GTO, with 8:1 compression. Though the 455 HO in 71/72 is still easily capable of 12s, as is the 455 SD in 73/74, with the 11.3:1-11.5:1 that the RA II/IV have on a 455 they would have been factory monsters. Alas... not allowed by GM. Hasn't stopped us from doing it ourselves though.
This has had me thinking.. I have a 71 Formula 400 that is a rolling shell, and a special ordered high option 72 455 HO Formula. I could get another set of HO heads and build a 455 shortblock for them, then instead of having a fully optioned power everything car like my 72, the 71 is manual brakes, steering, and windows. A 71 455 HO clone might make for a very fun pure stock drags car. Do the resto on the 72 and race them both, heavy and not so heavy... that sounds like fun.
The RAV is simply ludicrous. Its more along the lines of the tunnel port 427 Fords and 426 race Hemi, those heads on a 428 or 455 make it so easy to make 800hp. On an IAII block with 535ci 1000hp/tq on pump gas is REAL easy. There are some turbo RAV's coming out soon since two guys are reproducing the V head in aluminum. Lynn McCarty and Don Johnston both have them, Lynn's are mostly a stock replacement, Don's are more along the lines of a race head. Big Chief is only running Edelbrock RAIV copies, not even the biggest porting they can handle either, far from it. But that is a long way from these two running pure stock.
@@SweatyFatGuy i would rather have the 421 instead of the 428
Not a Chevy guy but my favorite BowTies have always been sleepers like
the 69 COPO 427 Camaro's and Chevelle's and the Plain Jane Biscayne's and Bel Air's with the factory HiPo 409's(1962-65), L78 396(1965 only), and L72 427(1966 and 68-69). Never cared much for stripes, spoilers, and fancy wheels and trim. Most of that shit just drew unwanted attention and added weight therefore making the cars slower. I only care about what makes the car faster. A bench seat, a 4 speed, and plain steelies with poverty caps is more my style. That Ram Air IV Judge is awesome but I'll take that L72 COPO Camaro if I had to choose one or the other
Did you zoom in so we could hear the Judge better?
The '58 Edsel was a beautiful car!
just how old are the tires on the camaro ?
That copo would go deep into the 11s with traction. Was it the Aluminum headed ZL1 or thr "base" 427?
A, With the claimed 425 HP in the video, it sounds like the engine was the iron block/iron head L72. BTW, the L88 427 is the one with aluminum heads. The ZL1 has both aluminum heads and an aluminum block.
@@chuckd7423 The ZL1 had a different bore and stroke the than the L72. It was a bigger bore, shorter stroke for racing endurance.
@@bjensne123 , Yes, but the question was which one of these engines was in the car in the video, and based on the specs provided in the video, it appears to be the L72. Since Jordan referenced the ZL1 as an aluminum headed engine, I just thought I would throw the information out there that the L88 engine has aluminum heads, while the ZL1 has both an aluminum block and aluminum heads.
And I am quite literally watching this video while taking a $#!+ after drinking my morning Folgers. I tried working on my car but my butt had other plans. So you just described my entire morning to this point.
Camaro is quicker - GTO is the head turner. Good race!
You really gotta get a Chevelle 454 LS6 on here
I will eventually. I have footage of a few
@@CarsAndZebras 🙌🏻 awesome you're the man!
That 427 sounded so good.
Still more impressed with the GTO, it's not a big block and it was a 4 speed. Only a couple of tenths off a lightweight auto big block camaro
SparkZ1420 A couple of tenths? More like .72, which is an eternity. And, manuals with a competent driver were MUCH quicker back then. BTW, I’m a Pontiac guy.
I miss my '69 GTO... so as you can probably tell, I'm slightly biased when it comes to these two great cars... Lol
Me, too.
Not a very good matchup. Would've been better if you found a 69 FB, with a RAV, to compete against the COPO. Or an L-78 Chevelle, against the same Goat. But the GTO was commendable, with it's 111 MPH. You know there was traction issues, and most 69 Camaros that I've seen have great 60' times. Cool vid, none the less. Thanks. :)
I predicted the Poncho would launch better, then maybe hold him off on the big end...
I was wrong!
anyone still really believe that a 340 Demon would normally really beat an L-78 equipped Nova. The L-72 and L-78 are essentially the same motor, and in this video the L-72 tromped on the GTO even with the handicap of an Turbo 400 behind it, and the GTO was much quicker than the featured 340 Demon.
What do you mean "iron"big block in that Camaro. The COPO Camaros all had all aluminum engines. Yenkos had iron blocks.
Good to hear you narrate your video again. See you at the track in 2021 if covid doesn't shut it down.
The guy in the pontiac can shift!
Was the copo running those stock skinny tires? Good launch but, definitely a condition gear waggle. Ram 4air was overated. The Pontiac was capable of much more power but, you had to build it.
So who actually believed a heavy 55 hp underpowered Pontiac would outrun a 427/425 little Camaro?
They have 500 hp
These are F.A.S.T. Class Cars. Factory Appearing Stock Tires where engine modifications are allowed. The Judge was a 14 second car off the showroom floor.
No, they aren’t. It’s Pure Stock and they allow mods...read the video description box.
That judge has flow master Exhaust or something. I grew up next to those my uncle had one and they didn't sound that nice. They sounded nice but not that nice. Still any v8 gets my ears votes.
What will a Zebra do in the quarter?
Where is this place located ?
GTO did good - Now if this was vs 69 Firebird RA IV 400 - More fair race :)
I read that the FAST racers that use automatic transmissions adjust the line pressure lower on the 1-2 shift to prevent the rear tires from breaking loose
Never thought about that, but it makes sense
@@CarsAndZebras
I read that in an old issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines. The guy running that wicked black '69 Road Runner 440 6-pack, mentioned that as one of his tricks
I was informed you can cut weight on the governor gear fly outs to adjust the shift points as well.
They do a lot of things to make these cars as fast as they are.
@@samgillies2011 - I’ll bet they did something like that on the TH400 in the L78 cars... it apparently was tuned to higher shift points to account for its higher redline
The lane was slippery , Oh well nice cars !!!
Ram Air 4, the monster. Put some meat on both and try it again. Should be a couple times so both cars get each lane.
Kicking myself I did not buy that COPO a few years ago; mind you it was bid at $116k and I figured the wife would freak 😕
I thought the zl1 was all aluminum. That's what separated it from the l88.
At 1:45 ******LMFAO******
No suprise auto versus manual.
Plus 50hp extra for the camaro.
Prefer the 1970 Judge the better looking car.
Mark Maxwell With a good driver manuals were MUCH quicker back then .
The Poncho didn’t have a prayer vs an automatic trans copo Camaro.
Nippsy Russell used to play the Judge as well on Laugh in.
The best copo order was the aluminum 427