Honestly, Its very interesting and eerie seeing how Toby can make a game where it is very obvious that the player and the protagonist are not one and the same, but still share the same body
There was a theory posted on reddit about this that I really have started to prefer Kris is obviously not okay after that boss fight. And Kris's situation of being controlled by us and being unable to resist us really resonated with Spamton calling Kris a puppet. So that frustration naturally manifests when we select "yes". But when we select "no"? That's not just Kris agreeing with us. Kris is so caught off guard by being allowed to express what they truly feel that it all just comes out as yelling. They were trying so hard to push out that "NO" that when they were allowed to say it, it was at a volume they couldn't even control.
The line about Kris wanting Susie’s jacket is also further proof that Kris prefers Susie over the others regardless of the player’s input. When being asked about who they would take to the festival, Susie is the only option that Kris responds to truthfully. Choosing Ralsei or Noelle causes Kris to respond with a confused tone because that isn’t what they really want to say.
@@midnightumbrmoon3644 I think you’re right but that’s more so with the player’s choices than Kris’s. Chapter 2 is separating Kris from the player more than ever before. And Susie keeps ignoring the player’s influence, like in the ferris wheel scene. She is usually dismissive of their choice but in the scenes I mentioned, Kris’s real desires break through at least for a moment. Compared to Ralsei, who Kris gives almost no affection unless the player forces them to
If you go the weird route, Susie seems like more of the protagonist than Kris tbh. Concerned for others, even the Queen. That can't be good down the line.
Maybe it's because Susie don't have any friends in the real world. But when she find out about the dark world, she have friends, and they care about Susie
@@muhammadsoleh4725 Yup, that’s why she cares so much about lancer, that little pumpkin is one of the funnest monster she knows and he was never afraid of her unlike people in the real world
This whole scene is just another reminder that Kris is their own character seperate from the choices made by the player because despite your choice here, kris isn't okay and is upset and disturbed by spamton, what he says and much Kris could possibly relate to spamton.
I think Kris was projecting onto spamton, if we can cut Spamton free from his strings maybe mine can be cut as well. But Spamton wasn't free after the strings were cut. He just dies. Kris is probably already aware of that possibility seeing how hard it is for them to move when they remove the player from them in ending scenes. Eventually putting the player back in them. The No comes out as a scream because what the the player is telling Kris to do actually is what Kris wants to do. While the yes is strained for the opposite reason.
Undertale: your action have consequences. Deltarune 1: your action don't matter Deltarune 2: but they have no choice. At least this is how I see it. I mean with Noelle secret route it becomes clear that we're making them do things against their will.
@@lopolka5373 I see it as your choices don't matter, but others do. Like whenever there's a susie moment like at the end of chapter 1 and 2. We're given a choice, but they don't matter. But we can manipulate others to make our decisions, like in the snowgrave route.
Actually we were supposed to get our vessel that we created in the beginning but somehow because of the person who says "will now be discarded your name is" we possessed kris's soul
Everyone talks about how Spamton was themed around puppets but another thing that people forget to mention is the pre-fight dialogue. Spamton is the FIRST character to acknowledge Kris's SOUL in either chapter. It must have been really unsettling for Kris to have the first person to know what situation he's in trying to murder him for his own benefit. It probably didn't help that said character is clinically insane and that Kris would actually be dead, or worse, if Susie and Ralsei didn't show up.
@@dizzy_jump well, it is, so.... ralsei is suspicious as hell. he doesnt want kris to think about what they just witnessed. he knows about souls canonically
I like to think it's because of the player controlling them and the moments they do emote is the rare times they get to have some control of themselves
The only times Kris has any form of control is during cutscenes before and after we make any choices. Like when Kris was backing away afraid of the closet in chapter 1. Where we might not be
I would be scared too if someone told me I was some sort of puppet being controlled by another unknown force that I KNOW it's true as well. and the fact they also somehow know my situation is already major red flags
Spoiler It reminds me of how Kris felt after they made Noelle use SnowGrave on Berdly as if that was not what Kris wanted but an unknown force (the player) made Kris give the command. Or if Kris is down, then the mysterious voice (most likely the player) makes Noelle use SnowGrave. Either way, both are about being controlled by an unknown force.
I find it outstanding that so far, the secret bosses are convoluted with so much to look into. If you're free, free, from all your string's, you end up as demented as Jevil. But if you're being controlled like a [puppet] and fully aware about it too, you end up as demented as Spamton
really Hiding from strange force is one thing Player's and CodeBreaking Characters Are PuppetMasters but They cant decide to Change Characters to control Due to the game's Limitations Im still not gonna be Matpat and crap and yeah
It seems increasingly like Ralsei doesn’t care what happens as long as the story/prophecy progresses. He doesn’t want to talk about Spamton, he becomes distressed when you don’t pan to Noelle and Susie during the Snowgrave route, and he talks to Kris whenever the player is away during the Ferris wheel/tunnel of love scene. I personally don’t think he’s evil, just sketch as hell.
@@amongOS806 still, Ralsei barely even interacts with Berdly or Noelle, and when Noelle is sad and everyone else is talking to her, Ralsei doesn’t seem to care at all, simply celebrating that the fun gang can close the fountain now, suspiciously wanting to progress the story. He generally only speaks to Kris (I think he’s secretly talking to the player) and Susie, of all characters, and gets more annoyed by characters that aren’t Kris and Susie, such as Rouxls Kaard and Lancer. Something IS up with him, he’s the only 'pure' Darkner after all... perhaps the Fountain of Darkness that he was formed by was the original fountain which Gaster created?
That's probably why kris is "okay-ish" with us controlling him, because he doesn't have a choice, seeing what happened to spamton when HE severed his puppet strings leaving him like a corpse. Kris knows that without us they'd be just like that so they have to comply. Also can we point out how good of a friend Susie is? Not moving on from the issue until she got Kris to smile. Very wholesome, and sad situation
Part of me thinks that Kris without his soul isn't a Villain. I guess they open the dark fountains in hope of becoming a darkner, gaining the power to live without a soul as the Cards, Toys and computer stuff that can be alive without a soul aswell.
There’s actually more dialogue in the “no” option that I just got! I’m playing on a file that I carried over from a ch 1 pacifist file where I beat Jevil, and I also went through most of the queens palace including the acid river trip where you hug Ralsei (I went back to the basement to fight Stanton via the elevator just before Noelle’s room.) Most of the same stuff you saw in the no option happened to me too, but Ralsei also hugged Kris and encouraged Susie to hug Kris too. Susie said no because she never gives hugs and Ralsei replied that, due to the laws of supply and demand, that just makes Susie hugs more valuable.
I was wondering about this! It's interesting how there are more variables that go into this dialogue - can't wait until someone puts all of the pieces together. I can't imagine how hard it must be to write so many different conversations for every interaction.
Calling it now, Susie's ultimate healing will be a hug that heals you above your maximum HP (but you'll only be able to use it once), or it will be a plot point in the future.
The whole "I... don't think it meant anything, Susie." And the "Don't think about what happened too hard, OK?" Set off some major red flags for me. Ralsei knows something...
I personally believe that he is helping Kris and is very aware of the Player (it is very apparent in the Snowgrave route, which is....something) as well as what is going on in general. If Ralsei is aware of the player, then it would make sense why he would want to avoid the topic. It is to stop us, the player, from listening. Whether or not he's involved with the creation of these 'bosses' and if they are beneficial for Kris or the Player is completely up to speculation, but I think they might be something the Player benefits from.
@@idk_what_im_doing04 Yeah and Ralsei is talking to Kris about something when the perspective shifts to Susie in both chapters. Even in the Pipis route he gets oddly frustrated when Kris (or the player?) refuses to go to Susie's perspective
@Palpitoad Plays I mean to be fair, in UNDERTALE, Papyrus jumps through the window into the void during your playdate with Undyne and nothing becomes of it.
Remember the first time you save at the beginning of chapter one, and you have to save over a slot named Kris? That is a hell of a lot creepier after this scene
I love the idea that Kris whole heartedly wants to be honest with them, so when the player tells him to say no, he says it a little too enthusiastically. And when you make him say yes, he doesn't want to say it so it comes out strained. I first took it as he was scared, but now I think it's cause he was fighting the command.
Also fun fact, Kris responds " weirdly enthusiastically" when Queen asks if they would rather join her army or perish in the start of chapter one (specifically the perish option)
I love how much this game drives home that we are some outside alien force invading this teenager's brain and just how fucked up that is from their perspective through just a few cutscenes like this.
@@eli3silver The Fun Gang are confirmed to be in their teens by both Toby Fox during the anniversary stream and in game during one of the early cut scenes with the Queen
To be fair, it’s not like we chose to be put inside kris. We created an empty vessel to inhabit at the start of the game, but whatever entity was guiding us through that process forced us to take control of kris.
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 Yeah regardless of if Chara was to blame for the events of the genocide route, they certainly seemed pretty happy that it happened
i mean ralsei is sweet as always but now he's kinda,,, u know i usually like cheesy ships but there's something about ralsei being so affectionate towards kris that now rubs me the wrong way
@@thepinkcoin1512 oh shit i haven't thought of that, i was more on the whole possible emotional manipulation, ralsei being sus, and us as players forcing kris to make friendly and sometimes borderline romantic advances with ralsei even though in reality kris might not like him
@@thepinkcoin1512 Yeah that's how I interpreted it, as Kris getting to spend time with some kind of Asriel like he used to do before he left for college
when i was playing through this, i chose to say no, and having ralsei turn to look at the player when saying it didn't mean anything and then *continue to do so* after susie pushes past him freaked me the hell out. this goat knows what's happening and he wants to make it clear to us. also i have a theory that while the queen's personality manifested from noelle's anxiety about her overbearing mother, spamton's whole deal was meant to reflect kris' anxiety about being controlled by the player and kris' own knowledge that if they attempt to fully break free from the SOUL, they'll die. there is so much to unpack in regards to spamton's dialogue i honestly recommend the theoryheads to see all of it. good stuff.
I haven’t seen it but what if Raleigh has a dark Crystal shard or whatever the other bosses drop, both jevil and spamton have them and they’re from different dark worlds but the only dark world we don’t know of that has an crystal holder is the closet area and from what we know raise I is the only one In the closes dark world and if you say about the door and the classroom then isn’t it implied that the big door after the tutorial in the castle area is the classroom door? This can explain why ralsei has more intelligence about things like darkness in different dark worlds that they don’t belong too or somehow getting to the cyber dark world somehow as we don’t know what the crystals do other then bring hyper awareness about stuff
i dont think the issue is youll die. The issue here is that without someone controlling them, spamton and kris, they are nothing. The one who has been making all this friends, this adventures is us, not kris. And if we dissapear someday and let kris be free, he wont know what to do, how to be like us. he realizes that he needs us and that he is only a puppet, nothing more nothing else.
To be fair, that could just be the pixel art style and the fact that Toby Fox generally stays away from adding voice sound affects. In fact, so far, the only instances of an actual voice recording being used are for Jevil's boss fight sound affects and Spamton's backing track. Which might mean that an actual voice means that that charcter is being controlled by something or someone.
@@Yaltaforma Those are two separate games that are only vaguely related. If we assume that Undertale happens after Deltarune, then it could be the metaton uses the spare parts of spamton's body to build his new body, explaining the voice.
@@dubiouscloud5115 Kind of impossible though considering Asriel died as a small child in Undertale and is in college during Deltarune. So yeah there really is no way to connect the two besides them sharing characters.
adding on to the whole “kris and spamton are puppets” thing, those three technically just killed spamton by snapping his strings and “freeing” him, and kris realizing that that could be his fate as well
I think since we the player just showed up one day, kris thinks they can just get rid of us one day. After spamton they realize that isn't an option and they could die from it. This is even worse if in game they realize one day we will leave, like you know, how all games eventually end. Then they realize they need to make a plan and fast or they will die when we leave.
My personal theory of these secret bosses are based on fears that kris is living with. E.g. Jevil: The fear of losing control Spamton: The fear of being controlled I wouldn't be surprised if this continues to be a theme and i'd love to see where it goes from now on
Seam did say that we can’t beat the third dark Crystal boss without that piece of cloth, I guess it could result in chase sequences and a lot of running, fear of helplessness maybe? Idk
An observation I have made is that both the secret bosses need freedom Jevil has too much freedom and is lonely Spamton needs freedom from his puppethood Both need freedom thats what i think spamton means when he says you and I are the same both spamton and kris are confined to insugnifagince without being controlled and greatness but puppettude when controlled
Jevil is what would happen with no soul,chaos,demented,free. Spamton is the opposite. He didnt escape the control. It got too bad. Thats why he is how he is.
The worst part is that not playing doesn't help. Not playing doesn't let Kris go free. They had the soul (and rejected it) before we, the current player, came into the picture (as evidenced by the birdcage, stain, and wheelbarrow that are in the room from the very first time we start the game), and even if we were to abandon the game, time doesn't progress until we boot it up again. They need the soul to be present to continue living, horrifyingly giving more credence to the idea that Kris will be just like Spamton and collapse after cutting all the strings tying us to them.
Hard disagree. I'd argue that the whole soul deal is separate from how the player controls Kris. The current consensus, I believe, is that they're being possessed by the Knight, who takes control of Kris' body by removing and locking away their soul (the thing that gives them agency). They don't intentionally reject the soul. As for the birdcage, I think it's just there as a part of their childhood, but I could be wrong.
@@rafidifrancesco7956 Oh, you think when Kris removes their soul, that's actually the KNIGHT possessing them, and every other time it's the player and Kris in dual control? Fascinating! I had never heard that before. I don't think it's the case though. The fact that the soul "zhooped" in at the beginning of chapter one (seemingly symbolizing our - the players' - connection with the world), that our arrow inputs move the soul (not only in battle, but also when Kris rips it out and throws it into the birdcage) and that the soul is what we use to make dialogue choices leads me to believe that the soul is representative of the player. Kris is probably related to the Knight in some way, though. The fact that Kris knew to throw the soul into the birdcage, along with the dried stain on the carpet (maybe from DT? leaky soul-juice?), made me think that this whole rip-out-my-soul-so-I-can-have-control thing a fairly regular occurrence for the kid, but it was the first time we had seen it as players. That implies that Kris has had a controlling soul from before the point we entered the world. Maybe there was another player before us? Gaster, perhaps? Kris having soul troubles from before the beginning of the game wouldn't make sense with the proposed narrative for why Gaster needs us, though. If he already had control of Kris, why would he need our DT? To allow Kris to open fountains?
Fun Fact: If you do the Swan Ride with Ralsei before the Secret Boss, he’ll hug Kris and say mostly the same lines. You’ll also change up Susie’s Dialogue as well, having her run to the next room when Kris looks over to her for a hug after her main dialogue.
Spamton saying "Are you watching [Heaven]?" Is a line that really tells that spamton is aware of a [Heaven], that being the real world were players and us live. Angels come from heaven, and i guess Kris, much like the legend in undertale, is the angel. But unlike Frisk, or Chara, I think Kris was contacted by the mysterious man behind Jevil and Spamton's knowledge. Kris is aware of being a player character controlled by the player, and knows for a fact that just like spamton, If they cut all the strings (Destroying their soul which we control), they die. Thats why they scream. Because they saw exactly themselves doing that with their soul if they attemt to get free, because they would truly die in the process. Also in the snowgrave route, it might be a different context. Because in the berdly fight when berdly asks what are you doing with noelle, Kris has the option to say they're protecting her from you. "You" might not be berdly. It might be actually "you" as the player. If noelle becomes stronger, the player cannot one hit ko her, or would require her in order to proceed, so she wouldn't die in the genocidal route players made. I have the feeling that Kris wasn't supposed to be the angel, or the vessel that the soul we control resides in. The start of the vessel creation game is indicative of it. Or maybe he is the vessel, but he became aware because of the entity behind spamton and jevil. Specially Jevil. Jevil has a point about his inmprisonment actually being freedom. Out of the player's eyes, there is no rule or no control to what they can actually do, becuase thats left to our imagination, and its not "determined". But in the end, they exist. and they are determined to be a jester inmprisoned in their cell. .... Also Maybe, Kris's actual SOUL is actually with the vessel we discaded, and Kris was or is the knight, but split into two. Or not. Ralsei for some reason tries to keep the game as a questline to save the world from darkness, trying to make sure the player doesn't notice Kris's unusual knowledge about things. Maybe because Kris wasn't supposed to know and ralsei is some sort of tutorial entity that can't process this.
[they: Kris] I'm thinking A LOT about what Kris really want and why they act the way they act when they somehow breaks out the player's control and I never thought that they could have been contacted by the same "man" that told the same things to Jevil and Spamton, it really makes sense. Prior to the player's arrive in Deltarune, Kris were a "living" being like any other character, then they become a vessel for the player's soul; what's new here is the fact that Kris can somehow and sometimes break free of the player's control, even if for just a short period of time. We can't tell yet how they can do that but we could try answering to WHY: this may sound obvious but I think that, like any other Deltarune character that resembles their Undertale's counterpart in shape, thinking and the way they act, Kris might be just like the first fallen human in Undertale, known as Chara. No, Kris isn't Chara, they just are a new character that look and act like Chara. They both act like creepy kids but most importantly they both may want to destroy the world and they know they can't do it alone so they make big plans to achieve it. Chara was just a human child in a world full of other humans so they went to the Underground and discovered that if you mix a human and a monster soul you become god, however monster' souls disappear in a very short time so the only way was to kill themselves and make a monster absorb their soul: Asriel confirmed that when he did this and went to the human world, he felt the control of Chara willing to kill everyone but opposed it. In a similar way, Kris is just a kid, they can't just kill everyone so they may be trying to break the balance between light and dark and let the Roar destroy the world. That would make Kris an "evil" character, so, why's yelling after Spmaton's fight? I initially thought that was fear, but I'm thinking that they're just angry.
@@lapispiderp1544 Wow, i didn't know about it. (I didn't remember that ralsei said that.) But i think It might mean ending the game, or the chapter. Like if the angel is a vessel for heaven. and heaven is the player or players, banish the heaven, and the player is no longer in the game. The screen fades to black, and we are let wondering what happens the next "day". But idk. Maybe "heaven" is another thing we don't know yet, or an actual location in the game that will appear in the future.
@@kirailgun3800 i think that might even explain the end of the chapter 2 because as we can see kris gets his sword out and it looks like if they were making another dark fountain just like berdly wanted to do on the cyber world ( correct if im wrong or if i misspelled something is just that i cant english)
There've already been dozens of theories on the meanings behind Deltarune and Undertale. A lot of them revolving around the fact that some of the characters know they're not in control. Especially not the main character. And Toby does hint at that concept a lot in both games. But, I think this was the creepiest way of going about it.
I think that "kris" has some power in this dialogue, like when u say "yes" u say it in a "strained" voice, "YOU" chose to say yes but "kris" doesn't want to say yes and so resisted; On the other hand if you said "no", "kris" highly supports this making him yell when normally other dialogue than this is said by "kris" is on a normal tone.
I think most 2 option choices have 1 that would be Kris's choice and one extra for the player If you pick the one Kris would choose it doesn't come out as monotone
I think this is also why normally no one questions Kris or their actions, but in the snowgrave route Noelle comments on the voice commanding her being different from Kris, and Ralsei on how they look "hurt". I believe Kris acts normally in the normal route because it's in line with what they would've done, not making too many objections. The snowgrave route however, being horrible, is not what they want to do at all so the player has to take more control, as otherwise Kris would resist.
The way Ralsei just tells us. . . to forget what happened, is Just so suspicious of him. . . also the fact he does not turn to statue, and that he moved to another dark world without being carried by someone, its all really suspicious
I believe there’s one line in the chapter that basically says that Ralsei is pure darkness, so he’s fine to enter any other darkworld. (And it’s why darkworlders from Lancer’s world and Queen’s world can all live in Ralsei’s world. It’s like the main darkworld place that can let any darkworlder live without turning to stone)
@@70Lu07 Well I did and there definitely is. I am still wondering about how he can move to any dark world on his own tho. Still, it might just be the same explanation as before. He’s from the darkworld made of the fountain of pure darkness, so he can just *do* that, I guess. I wonder if they’ll address it in the future chapters
I think its important to note that Kris, when he tears out his soul, cant walk normally, and has to stagger. We know a human cant live without its soul for an extended period of time (outside of battles), so I wonder if this was referencing that, even if Kris destroyed his strings (His Soul), he would just die as a result.
Which probably added to their fear here considering Kris most definitely considered just keeping their heart in the cage so they could remain in control. It’s like choosing not to drive your car today and looking outside to see it suddenly catch flame. It’s this weird gut wrenching feeling that makes you realize how vulnerable you are.
you dont know that....you dont know this person is human....truth is this person may just be the opposite entirely for this alone. A human DOES die without their soul....this isn't normal at all...it means something.
Personally, I doubt it because the SOUL was meant for our vessel alone We, the Player were supposed to control our character yet somehow the entity in the beginning of Chapter 1 (not the gaster entity) made us get thrown into Kris’s life.
They actually move like that before ripping out the soul. Implying to me that someone else is taking control of them to do that, abd jeep us from preventing their plans.
@@finkriel1814 i suspect that was kris- that kris with his boundless determination younked our soul from the either and made us his prisoner to mess with. As the ultimate prank- he's going around making dark fountains and leaving us to deal with them
When i got to that "is everything ok" part, i got confused and started looking around the screen in case i missed something. And my heart just sank when i saw Ralsei just casually out of bounds staring right into my soul.
@@SomeCameo the fact that ralsei mentioned making a cake and offering it to be chocolate, butterscotch or even cinnamon flavored has me questioning ralsei's identity considering main time we ever hear those 3 words being used is in relation to frisk/chara/asriel, plus let's not forget that ralsei is all about not wanting to do any violence........ and while not really a big deal i also find it strange how ralsei is a goat which we see none of in the dark world AT ALL..... kinda suspicious if u ask me, ngl toby is up to something there i can feel it
@@ARCEUS493ZELDA On top of that, he can exist in seperate Dark Worlds without becoming a statue like Lancer or Rouxls, which implies that Ralsei isn't actually a part of the Dark World, but rather someone of Kris's own imagination
"That got kris smiling." i know this is just one simple line but i like to think that susie said that to make kris laugh/lighten the mood after what happend, yknow! shock humour!
Kris might be one of my favorite playable characters in an RPG. They know they're being controlled, they know they're actions are being influenced from by someone else. I can't wait to see how else this plays into story.
@@fnaffoxy1987 I just don't get this argument. Like, if a character uses he/him or she/her no one would just randomly use different pronouns. No one goes around saying "well Mario is a self insert, so to me, she's a girl."
@@rosethorn7923 It's a "Role Playing Game", so probably you play the role of the character the way you want. For characters like Link in Zelda, it's confirmed that he's male, but he's called link so the player can put their personality on him, that's part of why he doesn't talk, or so I heard. For me, if a gender isn't specified I'll say what I want, it's easier that way to speak. If a gender is specified then I'll go with it unless it's utterly ridiculous like someone identifying as a helicopter.
@@fnaffoxy1987 pronouns *are* one way to confirm gender though? like even if no one in the game said "Link is a boy" you would know he is one because people talk about him with he/him, right? so if a character is talked about with they/them that means they're nonbinary. besides, there's the practical issue of, if you take a character who uses they/them and then some people use he/him and some people use she/her, it's just more confusing, lol.
I think the bosses are representing different ideas of "freedom above all else" so far. Jevil represents the idea that absolute freedom is incomprehensible chaos, represented by his battle patterns, which eventually devolve into random things you get by with a sliver of your health left. Spamton represents the idea that freedom is never attainable in its entirety, always depending on others (strings). I'm interested with what the chapter 3 boss is gonna be about.
Some were saying it could be a muffet or spider boss if we're working our way backwards iin terms of genocide bosses. I also think this could be explained by a spider hanging out in the corner of the living room somewhere in the real world. Not confirmed or anything but I thought it was a good theory.
@@Cozmikazi gl explaining your mom why her beloved chair is missing in the end of chapter 3 edit: oh yeah she will be there to understand why there is that
Maybe a boss will be freedom at the cost of safety? Like with how Jevil devolved into complete chaos the new boss might just be someone wanting to break free from rules and regulations but in the end sacrificing something for it? I don't know, might be too similar to Spamton... But I do feel like Toby is exploring a lot of well-discussed and dismantled ideas of freedom that have existed for decades in philosophy through these characters.
I've got a pretty interesting theory. The reason why Ralsei is constantly so nice to Kris throughout the game so far is because he knows every choice we're making is us forcing Kris to do that. So Ralsei, instead of wanting to have Kris feel bad for doing things he can't control, he acts nice no matter what you do so Kris doesn't feel bad.
@@karll0424 I think when there was even something like this during the tail end of chapter one, after being tricked by the king kris went to defend susie before she was hurt or worse, the player had no involvement in this implying it was likely kris themselves, this may imply that kris shows some form of comradery towards susie specifically.
awful strange that susie was the one asking real questions and trying to help kris while ralsei just shut down any attempt at understanding what spamtons deal was
Another thing to approach is that up to this point kris has not killed a darkner or presumably anyone for that matter (unless you do an aborted snowgrave which i mean everyone else considers it to have not happened for some reason so i dont know), he legitimately killed this guy, it was essentially an assisted suicide, even worse than that because spamton honestly thought it was gonna set him free but it just ended up murdering him. For a kid thats honestly pretty fucked up.
i did an aborted snowgrave, i thought something would happen if you kept berdly alive, had to find out it really doesnt do anything so now i feel like a shit person
Spamtom's not dead though, he went back to his previoud state and then decided to lend his power to you. Though hat still doesnt invalidate everything you said, Kris "freed" him and Spamton shut down completely, even if he recovered afterwards that sight shocked him.
2:51 ".....Spamton himself even says that Kris is 'just like him' as they're both just controlled by some outside force....." ( queens accent) Lmao I Can Imagine This As An Online Player Versus Player Pokemon Game
This reminds me of the "Asriel room" in the Mansion. If you choose to enter, Kris will enter because they have no choice, but they do it with their eyes closed using the little freedom they have. EDIT: Replaced "he" and "his" with gender-neutral pronouns.
At first I thought of it as a joke, but looking back that makes more sense. Hell, knowing Toby's ways it's probably both a troll and actual lore reasoning.
"Kris, I'll make some cake for you later, OK? I could even make it chocolate-flavored, Butterscotch, Cinnamon... whatever you want" Holy shit, is he trying to calm you down by subconsciously reminding you of Toriel? He clearly knows more than he's letting on, plus he is definitely connected to Asriel in some way.
His name its literally Asriel but with the letters switched, and he looks identical with UT Asriel, exept for his pink eyes and diferent clothing. Hes obviouslly conected to Asriel, but we cant do much besides wait until his connection with Asriel is showned
He also tries to calm Kris down by saying "Don't worry about it. Just think of something you like, something nice... something soft." ...like, himself? Is his very purpose of exsistence to be something Kris would like? A person designed to comfort and reassure Kris?
Personally, I feel like Kris has little to no influence in their actions, so they do little things like screaming "no" and making a "yes" sound strained in order to get the attention of their friends. I feel that the comic "Paper Trail" helps illustrate it more, and though it's off and deconfirmed on some aspects of the game, it's still a good representation of Kris, Susie, and the rest of them.
I think the most eerie thing about this is just how cold Toby's world overall is. It comes off as this fun bubbly world with characters that are as random as their debatably existent sanity meter. It tries to come off as silly and whacky but when it gets right down to it this world is dark, cruel, and vile. Spamton was a man that wanted freedom, to be a big shot, and yet when he finally got to the precipice of freedom the world mocks him by making his puppet strings visible and adding another layer to his failure just to rub it in he dies the moment his strings are cut. Having to then acknowledge he'll never be anything more than a puppet which ultimately encourages him to just give up existing by giving you some of his power to aid you. And yet despite his pleas, despite his desperate calls for help, the world just...tosses him to the side. Susie tries coming up with a reason why the fight happened and what Spamton's end goal was but Ralsei quickly dismisses it and just assumes there's no meaning behind what Spamton had done. On the surface, sure this makes sense. They don't know Spamton, they didn't really get the chance to bond with him so to them he was just a stranger actively trying to kill them, but to me, this just goes to show how cruel Toby's world is. It doesn't even let the characters TRY to see the lens from another man's eyes. They just quickly dismiss it, help Kris cope, and then move on. Making everything Spamton suffer through and the lengths he ultimately went through completely for nothing. He couldn't even inspire a single soul to try and break their strings to see their world for what it truly is. I still think Jevil is the FAR BETTER boss fight with far better music, dialogue, and aesthetic but if there's one thing Spamton does have over Jevil is his message. This world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a dark, mean, and nasty place that'll beat ya til' you're on the ground if you let it.
Sonder is what it's called, I believe. The realization that Spamton had his own story, probably just as if not more complex than Kris'/our own. But we won't get to see that side of him- and it's kinda.. sad. Sonder.
In the snowgrave version, he berates kris for trying to call his friends for help at the bottom of the dumpster. Felt incredibly personal and specific, maybe someone actually said those same words to him
in snowgrave i was connfused why spamton just wanted conqure the palace and neon world but after finising both ending and reading this comment i relised why in spamton's eyes if you want be free you need to make someone to be your slave that why he wasnt free thats why he wanted SOUL of kris lightners can create worlds thats why he wanted SOUL of kris just to be fully free in snow grave we destroryed all obstacles to him so he can go to palace and get neo armor easly so we gave him good end in snwograve for a while
The more I see stuff like this happen, the more I believe that Kris is starting to slowly understand that they can't take the SOUL out without making them basically vulnerable and weak. So instead of trying to cut the strings off like what happened to Spamton, Kris is actually complying with the voice's commands (IE: us the player) so Kris doesn't end up hurting themselves or others (which is what everyone thought Kris would do at the ending of Chapter 1, only to be told that he only ate the whole pie instead in Chapter 2). PS: Susie is really proving herself to be a kind, caring friend who tries her best to befriend others even when she hates their guts. The fact that she comforts Kris when he was obviously nervous about what happened really proves the point that she's turning into a true protagonist than a simple side character (which could effect things in later chapters for either other side characters or Kris himself)
if you think about it, kris complying with the soul means that at the end of chapter 1, she tried to lock it away so he could get some pie, to have something good in their few moments of free will, something unaffected by being vulnerable
In Snowgrave she’s the one who suggests Queen lives in Castle Town and seems to be more open to Noelle so if we do keep going down the “weird” route there’s potential she’s being built up to an Undyne-esque protag
Holy shit now I finally know what Susie meant at the beginning of the game, when she said: "Your choices don't matter" it was directed at Kris, not the player.
All jokes and memes aside, Spamton was already unstable, like even though he fights you and has a shop, there's still something incredibly off and unsettling about him. Then being cornered by his Neo form as he wants to rip out your soul in order to obtain "freedom", his whole fight where he keeps talking about getting free from being a puppet, being considered the same as him. Kris has awareness that he's being controlled as from the ending of Chapter 1 ripping out the soul.
Kris probably yells the “no” and is strained with the “yes” because they want to tell their friends that they’re not okay but can’t because the player controls their actions. It’s quite chilling when you think about it
The way in which Ralsei's just like "oh it's nothing!" in response to Kris being distressed (to the point where they were yelling) in regards to Spamton dying immediately after his strings are cut is... suspicious at best Starting to think the goat boy has some sort of agenda because of that
It wasn't really "oh it's nothing" though.. I agree that he's a bit suspicious in that scene, especially his lack of overall reaction, but I prefer to think it's him just trying to comfort Kris. Besides, there isn't really much to Spamton being defeated once the strings are cut. He doesn't even die, it's not even his true body, just the mind transferred into some other robot.
was gonna comment this, 100% agreed, ralsei's hiding something big. Throughout chapter 2 he hides so many things from the player that i just think he's gonna turn out to be evil or some shit as well :v Im guessing it might have something to do with him knowing about the player controlling kris or him being the one to cause it maybe.
Yeah, a lot of Ralsei's dialogue here and when he was first introduced in Chapter 1 made me suspicious of him. Also, it's really weird that he can walk outside the path that Kris and Susie are on in this scene, maybe something to do with how he gets to the Cyber-World even though it's never shown to be connected to the Castle Town? The only other characters from Chapter 1 that we see in Chapter 2 are there because they were in Kris's pocket, so how does Ralsei get there on his own?
Fact: Spamton gets angry if you do the [BIG SHOT] trick (holding enter and pressing z) and his damage will increase during battle with new update of the game Theory Time: Actually as you know we were supposed to get our vessel we created but we got interrupted by person who says"will now be discarded your name is" because of them whoever they are we got kris's soul (possession) the question is why the hell were we wanted to create a vessel for? For what? And who's the guy that says our vessel will be nothing what are we even doing with the soul given to us? Is deltarune an experiment that made by gaster?(not sure it's gaster) because in gaster's entry number seventeen, something is getting dark and darker, could this be the dark fountains?
I really wish that there was a way for me to help Kris. Like I feel really bad about everything sense their self aware and everything. I guess it’s the main reason I do the pacific run so Kris isn’t forced to hurt/kill anyone. I know this isn’t going to happen, but I really want to have a Kris and player conversation.
Remember that our vessel we created was taken from us. I hope Kris and gang separates us from themselves and they defeat whatever took our body so we can get our body back and explain everything. I'd imagine everyone would be mad at us though and we'd have to earn trust.
I just want an ending where you can tell Kris that they can be free, and have the option to delete Deltarune off your computer. I just finished Undertale today (true pacifist route) and am going to delete it for the same reasons.
Man, Ralsei seemed so... suspicious this chapter. Especially in this cutscene. Just dismissing Susie's questions, telling them that Spamton's words about puppetry and having the power to break their own strings were just because he was a corrupted program and that they shouldn't think about it so hard, he was definitely acting off.
@@alexanderthemidI even so, Kris is very scared by the situation. And ralsei is literally like "stop being a wimp, it meant nothing. We should move on and stop asking questions now" thats stupidly out of character. He's typically the first one to comfort and ease their worries. Not brush them aside like nothing happened
Kris Screaming is so sad. We know that he's a puppet because we made him one, and its breaking him. He cant tell anyone about this cause nobody would understand, nobody would believe him. And i really like how Susie actually didnt stay silent on this, she mentioned it and it caused Kris too break down for a moment. Ralsei acts like everything is fine, and even tells Kris too not think about it. Ralsei has been acting very suspicous as the chapter goes on, and this part bothered me because ralsei had no problem sweeping it aside.
I like to think that Kris is AT LEAST in control of his voice when we're controlling him. That talk of all that puppetry must have triggered Kris because that's literally happening to him right now.
@@rosethorn7923 who cares. whenever someone uses the incorrect pronouns on a fictional character you just HAVE to correct them. stop. kris is a character that can be determined to your liking, just like frisk. some people just choose to call kris, "him" or "her". just because toby fox said that it is they/them, that doesnt stop people from calling kris him/her.
every other comment about ralsei being kinda strange could be attributed to them trying to get kris to stop worrying about it simply to make them not be in constant pain, but ralsei knowing about butterscotch and cinnamon brings him over the line
Chara's chocolate and Tourisms Toriel's butterscotch-cinnamon pie in undertale being referenced could be just a reference or a hint at much deeper lore we don't know yet.
I think this is one of the best scenes in the game. We truly see the characters shine for who they are. Susie is being a good friend in her own way not with a there there like ralsei would but making Kris laugh with her usual antics. It's actually really heartwarming.
I still firmly think all that is caused by Ralsei casually stepping out of bounds like a god. Kris starts to doubt Ralsei. I'm getting such huge Flowey vibes, and it's 100% intentional. Stop it fluffy boi, you already stole my soul.
@@katzagain2580 And that weird moment where he seems to know in advance that the player (not Kris) was supposed to see the conversation between Noelle and Susie
@@a.dykeman1980 it's a reference to mettaton neo who has a set of wings In fact this entire fight is what mettaton neo would've been if alphys worked on the defenses however with alot less paper and cardboard and money
I dunno if people saw this, but if you say No and you've built enough affection with Ralsei over the game, he will also hug you in addition to his regular dialogue.
Spamton: Maybe you will be able to break your own strings Me who is controlling the actions of the protagonists. Spamton breaks the 4th wall, and it’s DEEP!!
I love how the fandom of this game is pure geniuses. The game only gave a bit of hint and they even hidden it somewhere in the game, but only a couple of days, people already found everything and even made their own theories, which for me is logical.
I think the best part so far to me is that I still can't put my finger on Kris's intentions at all, it's implied they're the knight at the end (or something like that) but stuff like this and their interactions that don't have our involvement make me wonder just what's going on inside their head
I've seen alot of people say Kris is the knight becuase of the ending to chapter two but I don't think Kris is the knight, it wouldn't make sense and we already have plenty of evidence that points to gaster or a different, entirely knew character being the knight. I think the ending was just Kris copying the knight/being Influenced by the knight, just like Queen, The king, spamton and jevil where Influenced/corrupted.
@@k-bot187 Or the knight is someone else, and Kris, having just learned how to create a dark fountain from Queens' exposition, wants to continue their adventure for... Some reason? (Fear of what happens when the game ends and their strings are cut? Something to do with why the internet is down and all the routes out of town seem to be closed? Something to do with Asriel? Thrill of winning battles and making friends? A combination of 2 or more of these theories maybe?)
Yeah, some people have speculated that there could be third force at play in controlling kris but I doubt it. Just kinda odd that normal Kris does all this weird stuff as well.
@@MysticSlime I'd say Kris is the knight mainly because whenever we take control and go to the Dark World; the save file becomes our name. This may imply that when Kris is off doing his own thing with the soul trapped somewhere and he enters the Dark World he probably becomes the Knight. But then again theres something that doesn't add up and it's that for the 1st and 2nd fountain formed he had enough time to convince their rulers to do something but this time he doesn't even bother to do anything at all. Maybe the Knight was always there somewhere following us whenever we enter a dark world.
2:27 Why does no one talk about them smiling? It's a small detail but it tells us that Kris does have emotions outside of our control and that he does seem to enjoy the two's company.
Honestly, ralsei was always a little _sussy_ in this chapter I think it has something to do with dark world not being real but we still had proof that its real
I felt like that happened so that tiny sliver of land wouldn't be too cluttered when Susie moved, and with him moving to the other side of Kris, there'd be no point of him moving back in place.
I love this team, the way ralsei and susie try to cheer up kris after the experience they just went through is incredible, that kind of friends will solve any problem for you
I would hate to see ralsei being secretly bad or up to something though.. he’s really supportive and caring but.. how does he know the outside world..? God i I can’t wait for chapter 3
Kris: *... *(Nothing but a puppet, huh?) *(And Spamton said that he and I are alike.) *(...) *(Come on, he could be taunting me for all I know.) *(Yeah, he was probably trying to psyche me out.) *(Even so...) *(Why do his words...) *Kris trembles. Kris: *(...cut so deeply...?)
*Perish* "Why the hell'd you say it so enthusiastically?!" Wonder if there's a tracker for picking dialogue options Kris is 100% on-board with, things they definitely would say without player input, just like in this scene.
i think those advertisements did affect kris someway, since during the normal spamton fight the dialogue boxes during your turns are full of ads where was supposed to be kris descriptions, spamton does corrupt the game in some ways, maybe he corrupted some of kris files, and also knows about the existence of the player a good example : there is nothing wrong there is NOTHING WRONG THERE IS NOTHING WRONG
I think Kris is shocked because they know they are being controlled by us, the player. I actually want a pacifist ending later in the game (chapters) where Kris and the player (soul) accept each other and be friends or smth
God, I know this scene is impactful as the player, seeing how we impact Kris, but I love the character interactions. Both with how tough Susie is, seeing her so concerned about Kris here, even pulling a joke to make them feel better is a very touching moment, I really like Susie as a character. And it’s also very interesting to see how Kris takes to Ralsei’s comfort. Kris doesn’t budge until getting Susie’s help, and we saw from the tea theory that Kris doesn’t seem to like Ralsei very much. I just find the trio’s dynamic really interesting and I can’t wait to see what Toby does with them in chapters 3-7.
I love me an emotionally unstable protagonist Thanks, Toby Fox, for teaching me this! (Also shoutout to Susie for caring about mental health) Edit: Also, both secret bosses have related to Kris. Kris, according to Monster Teen, is scared of that door that makes slowed down Gaster noises, Kris is aware that this is all a game (Or at least the first Dark World since they followed Ralsei's instructions) and Kris is a puppet.
this may be a long shot, but the player gets to look at the door and get close to it (despite kris being afraid) and since it's mysterious and it's just THERE, we have reason to go in there if given the chance. since gaster and the soul are known to exist(by some people) but relatively unknown in how they work, that might be the player trying to reach gaster (who's inside the room) just to see if he can help the soul break free. possibly to give kris a normal life again
Oh yeah. I saw that in another video of this cutscene. Now that was nice to see. But in that other video the cutscene was also way longer with extra dialogue about how Susie wouldn't hug Kris. *edit* I apparently found a comment on another video, Apparently according to them Ralsei only hugs you if you have some sort of save data in the game files for him being ok with hugs. Which comes after that swan boat in the acid ride and after the photo if you choose to hug Ralsei there.
bruh it will like those anime with the ending of the protagonist becoming the villain in order for the world to defeat them, like code geass or aot or idk
I do not think there will be a good ending. If Toby makes multiple endings to completed Deltarune (I recall hearing somewhere that there will only be one ending to the whole thing but given the variations in how chapter 2 can finish I doubt it will be just one) I would be willing to bet that one of them will be Kris breaking free completely from the player's control and unleashing the Roaring. And in another I would expect the player to control far more than they do now like how in Snowgrave they make Noelle listen to their orders.
I wonder if it'll be a reoccurring theme, that all secret bosses in the upcoming chapter will have freedom as some sort of theme. Jevil, thinking he was free and everyone else was locked away, then Spamton, a literal puppet on strings longing to be free. Also I also wonder why Kris- _who obviously despise us (The Soul/Player) for controlling them_ - still keeps us around, maybe it would be like Spamton's case? Like, if we cut ties with Kris they would die and turn into nothingness? or they're keeping us because they have something in store for us that only we can do that they can't? I don't know, only 2 chapters have been released after all, but it's still fun to theorized about!
Every time Kris removes us/their soul, they shamble around. I don’t think they can do much without their soul. It frees them from our control, but at a cost. If they leave it out for too long then something bad would probably happen to them.
I don't think they despise the player in pacifist, especially since they played a prank on the soul in the end of chapter 1 Yes Kris wants freedom and we will help him get it
"If you say it all strained like that, I'm not gonna think you're OK..." Kris WANTS to say "No" But since the player selected yes, he has absolutely no choice The reason he yells "No" is because he finally got to say what he wanted to say, which almost never happens, being that we only get pre-determined dialogue choices, Kris NEVER gets to speak his mind.
It’s interesting that Kris, despite being the stoic and silent hero, actually has a lot of genuine character-establishing moments in part 2 It’s interesting how their cold, long stare is canon because it makes moments like this when they emote all the more potent
If Ralsei's Subject is a Hug Prince, After He is comforting you, he proceeds to give Kris a Hug. Also demanding Susie does it as well. (I picked No, but don't know what happens when I choose Yes)
I have a feeling in chapter 3 or 4 we’ll start to breakdown the mental state of Kris and his knowledge of “the player’s” (your) control on Kris. Due to Toby Fox’s consistancy, I believe he likes to show past chapter decisions in new chapters. (For example, the battle tank design in the first chapter is brought back in the second chapter when you fight Rouxls Kaard in the acid ride part.) So I believe that the character you made in the beginning will eventually appear in a later chapter. But because it’s a vessel, it will not be “alive” but on the ground and limp like NEO Spamton was in the ending of their fight. Kris will probably encounter this vessel and probably try and put the soul in it to “free” themselves of the player. But who knows what might happen to Kris...
...................suddenly i'm very glad that i always chose the options 'love' or 'hope' when it asks me how i feel about the vessel last fucking thing i need is eventually having to duke it out/try to leave a vessel i imprinted with words like 'horror' or 'disgust'.............
What really creeped me out is Ralsei’s reaction to all of this, he doesn’t fucking care. Or at least, he only cares if it’s making Kris/Us feel bad. He wants us to ignore Spamtons words and he wants Kris to stop thinking about it. I dunno, just how Ralsei framed himself in the whole conversation felt gross and manipulative. Undertales message on the topic of kindness, can essentially be boiled down to: it’s a good thing to always be kind, to help those who are hurting and redeem the unredeemable. I feel like Deltarune is going to continue talking about how incessant kindness can be evil too.
It's like if even when the player is controling kris, they're still able to do some things, like after you make noelle snowgrave berdley, ralsei points out that you don't seem 'ok', i'm guessing by the look of kris' face. They didn't want this to happen, yet the player's will is stronger than theirs
Kris has such good friends... I wish we as the player could make them feel better too, I hope later on there will be some choice to either let them go or help them in some way. I feel really bad for Kris, I wish we could give them the world ;_;
It hurts that it’s our fault that they feel that way. Us controlling them is making them go through so much. I want to help them but I don’t know how really :( I just want to pick the dialogue options that Kris most likely would say.
What I love so much about this game is that your learn random details throughout the game that seem insignificant at first, but with the context of what is leanred in the future makes more sence.
We learned two very, VERY important things in this scene.
1, Kris can yell.
And 2, Kris can smile.
They did smile in the end of Chapter 1 tho
And ralsei can clip trough walls
@@motivated2473 oh my god
3. Ralsei is sus af
@@thegeebusthings wdym Ralsei is sus off?
Honestly, Its very interesting and eerie seeing how Toby can make a game where it is very obvious that the player and the protagonist are not one and the same, but still share the same body
Off did it in 2008
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413, cool, didn't know that, I was in kindergarten eating the sand out of the sand box that year
@@wyvernknight LMFAO
@UCNOKrPJMY4b5M8WAYd3LQYA damn he told you to shut the hell up lmao
I also screamed after finally beating him
There was a theory posted on reddit about this that I really have started to prefer
Kris is obviously not okay after that boss fight. And Kris's situation of being controlled by us and being unable to resist us really resonated with Spamton calling Kris a puppet.
So that frustration naturally manifests when we select "yes".
But when we select "no"?
That's not just Kris agreeing with us. Kris is so caught off guard by being allowed to express what they truly feel that it all just comes out as yelling. They were trying so hard to push out that "NO" that when they were allowed to say it, it was at a volume they couldn't even control.
like when you cut a block of cheese and it takes a while for the knife to cut through but suddenly just breaks the cheese in half in a split second
@@dizzy_jump best analogy
@@dizzy_jump mmmm who cut the cheese smells stinki
This guy: So I saw this theory-
Commenter: cheese
Also if you look at the soul when the options appear the soul is sligthlie closer to the "Yes" option
The line about Kris wanting Susie’s jacket is also further proof that Kris prefers Susie over the others regardless of the player’s input. When being asked about who they would take to the festival, Susie is the only option that Kris responds to truthfully. Choosing Ralsei or Noelle causes Kris to respond with a confused tone because that isn’t what they really want to say.
I like to believe that it’s because Susie doesn’t give Kris choices, or more specifically, any choice that involves Susie doesn’t matter.
@@midnightumbrmoon3644 absolute chad lizard, no wonder everyone wants her
I guess you could say that Kris responded by himself when asked that question?
@@midnightumbrmoon3644 I think you’re right but that’s more so with the player’s choices than Kris’s. Chapter 2 is separating Kris from the player more than ever before. And Susie keeps ignoring the player’s influence, like in the ferris wheel scene. She is usually dismissive of their choice but in the scenes I mentioned, Kris’s real desires break through at least for a moment. Compared to Ralsei, who Kris gives almost no affection unless the player forces them to
@@yeetfeet731 Yeah or they at least personally influenced the way the player made them respond
Susie was such a good friend in this chapter.
If you go the weird route, Susie seems like more of the protagonist than Kris tbh. Concerned for others, even the Queen.
That can't be good down the line.
Maybe it's because Susie don't have any friends in the real world. But when she find out about the dark world, she have friends, and they care about Susie
@@muhammadsoleh4725 Yup, that’s why she cares so much about lancer, that little pumpkin is one of the funnest monster she knows and he was never afraid of her unlike people in the real world
fr i love her
Queen is the kindest thing in deltarune , she care about kris and give him 2 bananas
This whole scene is just another reminder that Kris is their own character seperate from the choices made by the player because despite your choice here, kris isn't okay and is upset and disturbed by spamton, what he says and much Kris could possibly relate to spamton.
so there is kris soul and body ? and the player
@@dragongrandmaster I feel like it could be us taking over his soul
@@coraline2770 That's not right- we aren't taking over his soul- the soul is what allows us to use him- to move him- to use actions with him
@@brucekirwan7167 yes, that's called taking over someone's soul
@@niftylittlename We aren’t taking over his soul. We ARE the soul. And we aren’t his soul. He doesn’t have a soul of his own.
I think Kris was projecting onto spamton, if we can cut Spamton free from his strings maybe mine can be cut as well. But Spamton wasn't free after the strings were cut. He just dies. Kris is probably already aware of that possibility seeing how hard it is for them to move when they remove the player from them in ending scenes. Eventually putting the player back in them. The No comes out as a scream because what the the player is telling Kris to do actually is what Kris wants to do. While the yes is strained for the opposite reason.
Undertale: your action have consequences.
Deltarune 1: your action don't matter
Deltarune 2: but they have no choice.
At least this is how I see it. I mean with Noelle secret route it becomes clear that we're making them do things against their will.
Wow, that's make sense
@@lopolka5373 I see it as your choices don't matter, but others do. Like whenever there's a susie moment like at the end of chapter 1 and 2. We're given a choice, but they don't matter. But we can manipulate others to make our decisions, like in the snowgrave route.
Actually we were supposed to get our vessel that we created in the beginning but somehow because of the person who says "will now be discarded your name is" we possessed kris's soul
Does this mean, that every chapter we progress through we get to choose what's actually happening
Everyone talks about how Spamton was themed around puppets but another thing that people forget to mention is the pre-fight dialogue. Spamton is the FIRST character to acknowledge Kris's SOUL in either chapter. It must have been really unsettling for Kris to have the first person to know what situation he's in trying to murder him for his own benefit.
It probably didn't help that said character is clinically insane and that Kris would actually be dead, or worse, if Susie and Ralsei didn't show up.
little goat man also acknowledges kris' soul in chapter 1. but other than that, nada.
@@spacecatsftw only as the tutorial, i dont count the tutorial to be canon
@@dizzy_jump well, it is, so.... ralsei is suspicious as hell. he doesnt want kris to think about what they just witnessed. he knows about souls canonically
@@liamk3451 how weird would it be for ralsei to yell about the buttons and your keyboard keys
@@dizzy_jump that means that he knows about YOU the player
"That got Kris smiling"
So Kris DOES have an expression and doesn't just have an emotionless stare 24/7. We just (for some reason) can't see it
I like to think it's because of the player controlling them and the moments they do emote is the rare times they get to have some control of themselves
Likely because for us Kris is just a puppet. Hence his sprites being as inexpensive in game for us.
The only times Kris has any form of control is during cutscenes before and after we make any choices. Like when Kris was backing away afraid of the closet in chapter 1. Where we might not be
@@nothere3982 We see Kris as having no emotions, but the characters in-game can see the emotions and react to them.
Maybe his smile is just too small to move a pixel on their sprite
I would be scared too if someone told me I was some sort of puppet being controlled by another unknown force that I KNOW it's true as well. and the fact they also somehow know my situation is already major red flags
i am living in your walls
@@mikadosannoji553 welp, time to get my flamethrower then...
hah "red"
Spoiler
It reminds me of how Kris felt after they made Noelle use SnowGrave on Berdly as if that was not what Kris wanted but an unknown force (the player) made Kris give the command. Or if Kris is down, then the mysterious voice (most likely the player) makes Noelle use SnowGrave.
Either way, both are about being controlled by an unknown force.
JUST ACCEPT IT KID ! ALL OUR FATES ARE OUT OF CONTROLL, PRE DETERMINED BY A UNKNOWN FORCE.. THAT'S THE PRICE YOU GET WITH [Hyperlink Blocked] !
I find it outstanding that so far, the secret bosses are convoluted with so much to look into.
If you're free, free, from all your string's, you end up as demented as Jevil.
But if you're being controlled like a [puppet] and fully aware about it too, you end up as demented as Spamton
really Hiding from strange force is one thing
Player's and CodeBreaking Characters Are PuppetMasters but They cant decide to Change Characters to control Due to the game's Limitations
Im still not gonna be Matpat and crap and yeah
@@hiscirra9430 kris Can be free When a player Deletes the game but The Secret Characters Cant escape
Jevil, although trapped, is free. Spamton, athough bound by strings, is free. Kris, completely at the player’s whim, is not free.
Or kris!
@@Linkinator01 That is. If the player stops playing the game for another 3 years to wait for Chapter 3 lmaoooooo
It seems increasingly like Ralsei doesn’t care what happens as long as the story/prophecy progresses. He doesn’t want to talk about Spamton, he becomes distressed when you don’t pan to Noelle and Susie during the Snowgrave route, and he talks to Kris whenever the player is away during the Ferris wheel/tunnel of love scene. I personally don’t think he’s evil, just sketch as hell.
The show must go on
@@WolfT33 proceed.
I mean if you hug him on the swan ride before beating spamton, you get a different cutscene
@@amongOS806 still, Ralsei barely even interacts with Berdly or Noelle, and when Noelle is sad and everyone else is talking to her, Ralsei doesn’t seem to care at all, simply celebrating that the fun gang can close the fountain now, suspiciously wanting to progress the story. He generally only speaks to Kris (I think he’s secretly talking to the player) and Susie, of all characters, and gets more annoyed by characters that aren’t Kris and Susie, such as Rouxls Kaard and Lancer. Something IS up with him, he’s the only 'pure' Darkner after all... perhaps the Fountain of Darkness that he was formed by was the original fountain which Gaster created?
@@CaptainCoolzCT- tbh who doesn’t get annoyed by Rouxls Kaard
That's probably why kris is "okay-ish" with us controlling him, because he doesn't have a choice, seeing what happened to spamton when HE severed his puppet strings leaving him like a corpse. Kris knows that without us they'd be just like that so they have to comply.
Also can we point out how good of a friend Susie is? Not moving on from the issue until she got Kris to smile. Very wholesome, and sad situation
Nice comment
time to get 360 notifications by just replying
It's kinda chilling but a well made scene
OMG its a *[Big Shot]*
Part of me thinks that Kris without his soul isn't a Villain.
I guess they open the dark fountains in hope of becoming a darkner,
gaining the power to live without a soul as the Cards, Toys and computer stuff that can be alive without a soul aswell.
There’s actually more dialogue in the “no” option that I just got! I’m playing on a file that I carried over from a ch 1 pacifist file where I beat Jevil, and I also went through most of the queens palace including the acid river trip where you hug Ralsei (I went back to the basement to fight Stanton via the elevator just before Noelle’s room.) Most of the same stuff you saw in the no option happened to me too, but Ralsei also hugged Kris and encouraged Susie to hug Kris too. Susie said no because she never gives hugs and Ralsei replied that, due to the laws of supply and demand, that just makes Susie hugs more valuable.
I was wondering about this! It's interesting how there are more variables that go into this dialogue - can't wait until someone puts all of the pieces together. I can't imagine how hard it must be to write so many different conversations for every interaction.
Calling it now, Susie's ultimate healing will be a hug that heals you above your maximum HP (but you'll only be able to use it once), or it will be a plot point in the future.
@@maldambao6126 Omg that would be so sweet
That's precious
@mlg noob due
To the laws
Of supply
And demand
Noone wants to buy a shell
'Cause there's loads
On the sand
The whole "I... don't think it meant anything, Susie." And the "Don't think about what happened too hard, OK?" Set off some major red flags for me. Ralsei knows something...
Ralsei is 100% the twist villain of deltarune
I personally believe that he is helping Kris and is very aware of the Player (it is very apparent in the Snowgrave route, which is....something) as well as what is going on in general. If Ralsei is aware of the player, then it would make sense why he would want to avoid the topic. It is to stop us, the player, from listening.
Whether or not he's involved with the creation of these 'bosses' and if they are beneficial for Kris or the Player is completely up to speculation, but I think they might be something the Player benefits from.
@@idk_what_im_doing04 Yeah and Ralsei is talking to Kris about something when the perspective shifts to Susie in both chapters. Even in the Pipis route he gets oddly frustrated when Kris (or the player?) refuses to go to Susie's perspective
@@zappyapp Maybe not a twist villain, but he's aware about the entity controlling Spamton and Jevil
@Palpitoad Plays I mean to be fair, in UNDERTALE, Papyrus jumps through the window into the void during your playdate with Undyne and nothing becomes of it.
Remember the first time you save at the beginning of chapter one, and you have to save over a slot named Kris? That is a hell of a lot creepier after this scene
what happens if you don't save
Nothing happens if you dont save. As far as I know, this is just a little secret. If you dont save, yoy dont save🤷♀️
We are overwriting Kris's control and influence :(
It got removed
yeah, this game puts a lot more emphasis on the player themself than Undertale where sometimes the characters acknowledge who's really in control
I love the idea that Kris whole heartedly wants to be honest with them, so when the player tells him to say no, he says it a little too enthusiastically. And when you make him say yes, he doesn't want to say it so it comes out strained. I first took it as he was scared, but now I think it's cause he was fighting the command.
I think it's both fighting the command and fighting the wave of emotions that comes with seeing what could potentially be your fate as well
Also fun fact, Kris responds " weirdly enthusiastically" when Queen asks if they would rather join her army or perish in the start of chapter one (specifically the perish option)
kris uses they/them btw
I honestly still think that we are like Kris's conscience
@@puppyparfait9014 it's for people to call him whatever they want, like with frisk
Kris also turns to face the screen every time a cutscene ends, as if to tell US "well, let's keep going"
Frisk did the same in Undertale
Yeah..I always thought it was a little weird how he did that. Like he knows someone out there's watching him and he has to wait for their input.
I love how much this game drives home that we are some outside alien force invading this teenager's brain and just how fucked up that is from their perspective through just a few cutscenes like this.
Wait is Kris a teen?!? I thought we were in elementary.
@@eli3silver In chapter 1 Toriel says "you'll be going off to college soon".
@@eli3silver The Fun Gang are confirmed to be in their teens by both Toby Fox during the anniversary stream and in game during one of the early cut scenes with the Queen
To be fair, it’s not like we chose to be put inside kris. We created an empty vessel to inhabit at the start of the game, but whatever entity was guiding us through that process forced us to take control of kris.
@@idontknowhowtonamethings.6905 I mean, regardless it's still a pretty fucked up scenario, especially for Kris themself
Kris showing emotion is genuinely the best part of Deltarune's interactions imo, just shows he's more human than previous main characters.
I agree, and is that to tell the truth for that single detail I think kris a better protagonist than frisk that is only a self-insert of the player
I like this chapter because it’s made people stop demonizing Kris. They’re not a bad person, they just are sick of being controlled by the player
If people are still demonizing Chara even today then i'm not surprised seen them doing that to Kris
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 Yeah regardless of if Chara was to blame for the events of the genocide route, they certainly seemed pretty happy that it happened
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil to be fair I think that's because you made their lv skyrocket which results in apathy for living creatures if I remember right
It's so sweet to see interactions like what happens if you say "yes", it really makes the team feels like friends.
yeah...
i mean ralsei is sweet as always but now he's kinda,,, u know
i usually like cheesy ships but there's something about ralsei being so affectionate towards kris that now rubs me the wrong way
@@roggymp3 probably because of the whole asriel thing
@@thepinkcoin1512 oh shit i haven't thought of that, i was more on the whole possible emotional manipulation, ralsei being sus, and us as players forcing kris to make friendly and sometimes borderline romantic advances with ralsei even though in reality kris might not like him
@@thepinkcoin1512 Yeah that's how I interpreted it, as Kris getting to spend time with some kind of Asriel like he used to do before he left for college
when i was playing through this, i chose to say no, and having ralsei turn to look at the player when saying it didn't mean anything and then *continue to do so* after susie pushes past him freaked me the hell out. this goat knows what's happening and he wants to make it clear to us. also i have a theory that while the queen's personality manifested from noelle's anxiety about her overbearing mother, spamton's whole deal was meant to reflect kris' anxiety about being controlled by the player and kris' own knowledge that if they attempt to fully break free from the SOUL, they'll die. there is so much to unpack in regards to spamton's dialogue i honestly recommend the theoryheads to see all of it. good stuff.
I haven’t seen it but what if Raleigh has a dark Crystal shard or whatever the other bosses drop, both jevil and spamton have them and they’re from different dark worlds but the only dark world we don’t know of that has an crystal holder is the closet area and from what we know raise I is the only one In the closes dark world and if you say about the door and the classroom then isn’t it implied that the big door after the tutorial in the castle area is the classroom door? This can explain why ralsei has more intelligence about things like darkness in different dark worlds that they don’t belong too or somehow getting to the cyber dark world somehow as we don’t know what the crystals do other then bring hyper awareness about stuff
@@kenziebalhatchet3918 what if hearts turn into crystals when they break free?
i dont think the issue is youll die. The issue here is that without someone controlling them, spamton and kris, they are nothing. The one who has been making all this friends, this adventures is us, not kris. And if we dissapear someday and let kris be free, he wont know what to do, how to be like us. he realizes that he needs us and that he is only a puppet, nothing more nothing else.
I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE OH GOD THIS IS CREEPY RALSEI KNOWS OH GOD FLOOFY BOI I KNEW IT
Also Susie turns towards the player with a angry face for a second at 2:08
Ummm
1:20 Even creepier: We DON'T actually 'see' him yelling, we only have Ralsei's account of it.
To be fair, that could just be the pixel art style and the fact that Toby Fox generally stays away from adding voice sound affects. In fact, so far, the only instances of an actual voice recording being used are for Jevil's boss fight sound affects and Spamton's backing track. Which might mean that an actual voice means that that charcter is being controlled by something or someone.
@@dubiouscloud5115 Mettaton EX had a voice 😔
@@Yaltaforma Those are two separate games that are only vaguely related. If we assume that Undertale happens after Deltarune, then it could be the metaton uses the spare parts of spamton's body to build his new body, explaining the voice.
@@dubiouscloud5115 Kind of impossible though considering Asriel died as a small child in Undertale and is in college during Deltarune. So yeah there really is no way to connect the two besides them sharing characters.
Imagine hearing him yell tho :0
adding on to the whole “kris and spamton are puppets” thing, those three technically just killed spamton by snapping his strings and “freeing” him, and kris realizing that that could be his fate as well
Maybe he regrets tearing out his soul? And then he does it at the end of the chapter, so maybe he just accepts his fate and moves on
I think since we the player just showed up one day, kris thinks they can just get rid of us one day. After spamton they realize that isn't an option and they could die from it. This is even worse if in game they realize one day we will leave, like you know, how all games eventually end. Then they realize they need to make a plan and fast or they will die when we leave.
*their fate
@@orangepotassium why do people use he/him for kris? I'm genuinely confused
@@rosethorn7923 what
My personal theory of these secret bosses are based on fears that kris is living with.
E.g.
Jevil: The fear of losing control
Spamton: The fear of being controlled
I wouldn't be surprised if this continues to be a theme and i'd love to see where it goes from now on
Seam did say that we can’t beat the third dark Crystal boss without that piece of cloth, I guess it could result in chase sequences and a lot of running, fear of helplessness maybe? Idk
An observation I have made is that both the secret bosses need freedom
Jevil has too much freedom and is lonely
Spamton needs freedom from his puppethood
Both need freedom thats what i think spamton means when he says you and I are the same both spamton and kris are confined to insugnifagince without being controlled and greatness but puppettude when controlled
Jevil is what would happen with no soul,chaos,demented,free. Spamton is the opposite. He didnt escape the control. It got too bad. Thats why he is how he is.
next chapter is probably being scared of controlling or some shit
@@vicebonks probably somebody who is in control yet doesnt want to be
The worst part is that not playing doesn't help. Not playing doesn't let Kris go free. They had the soul (and rejected it) before we, the current player, came into the picture (as evidenced by the birdcage, stain, and wheelbarrow that are in the room from the very first time we start the game), and even if we were to abandon the game, time doesn't progress until we boot it up again. They need the soul to be present to continue living, horrifyingly giving more credence to the idea that Kris will be just like Spamton and collapse after cutting all the strings tying us to them.
Hard disagree. I'd argue that the whole soul deal is separate from how the player controls Kris. The current consensus, I believe, is that they're being possessed by the Knight, who takes control of Kris' body by removing and locking away their soul (the thing that gives them agency). They don't intentionally reject the soul. As for the birdcage, I think it's just there as a part of their childhood, but I could be wrong.
@@rafidifrancesco7956 Oh, you think when Kris removes their soul, that's actually the KNIGHT possessing them, and every other time it's the player and Kris in dual control? Fascinating! I had never heard that before.
I don't think it's the case though. The fact that the soul "zhooped" in at the beginning of chapter one (seemingly symbolizing our - the players' - connection with the world), that our arrow inputs move the soul (not only in battle, but also when Kris rips it out and throws it into the birdcage) and that the soul is what we use to make dialogue choices leads me to believe that the soul is representative of the player. Kris is probably related to the Knight in some way, though.
The fact that Kris knew to throw the soul into the birdcage, along with the dried stain on the carpet (maybe from DT? leaky soul-juice?), made me think that this whole rip-out-my-soul-so-I-can-have-control thing a fairly regular occurrence for the kid, but it was the first time we had seen it as players. That implies that Kris has had a controlling soul from before the point we entered the world. Maybe there was another player before us? Gaster, perhaps?
Kris having soul troubles from before the beginning of the game wouldn't make sense with the proposed narrative for why Gaster needs us, though. If he already had control of Kris, why would he need our DT? To allow Kris to open fountains?
DT?
@@gothwafflez Determination
@@ImThylacine ah, thank you
Fun Fact: If you do the Swan Ride with Ralsei before the Secret Boss, he’ll hug Kris and say mostly the same lines. You’ll also change up Susie’s Dialogue as well, having her run to the next room when Kris looks over to her for a hug after her main dialogue.
I did that, but this didn't happen. Do you have to say "Yes" to see the changes?
Spamton saying "Are you watching [Heaven]?" Is a line that really tells that spamton is aware of a [Heaven], that being the real world were players and us live.
Angels come from heaven, and i guess Kris, much like the legend in undertale, is the angel.
But unlike Frisk, or Chara, I think Kris was contacted by the mysterious man behind Jevil and Spamton's knowledge. Kris is aware of being a player character controlled by the player, and knows for a fact that just like spamton, If they cut all the strings (Destroying their soul which we control), they die. Thats why they scream. Because they saw exactly themselves doing that with their soul if they attemt to get free, because they would truly die in the process.
Also in the snowgrave route, it might be a different context. Because in the berdly fight when berdly asks what are you doing with noelle, Kris has the option to say they're protecting her from you. "You" might not be berdly. It might be actually "you" as the player. If noelle becomes stronger, the player cannot one hit ko her, or would require her in order to proceed, so she wouldn't die in the genocidal route players made.
I have the feeling that Kris wasn't supposed to be the angel, or the vessel that the soul we control resides in. The start of the vessel creation game is indicative of it.
Or maybe he is the vessel, but he became aware because of the entity behind spamton and jevil.
Specially Jevil. Jevil has a point about his inmprisonment actually being freedom. Out of the player's eyes, there is no rule or no control to what they can actually do, becuase thats left to our imagination, and its not "determined". But in the end, they exist. and they are determined to be a jester inmprisoned in their cell.
....
Also Maybe, Kris's actual SOUL is actually with the vessel we discaded, and Kris was or is the knight, but split into two.
Or not.
Ralsei for some reason tries to keep the game as a questline to save the world from darkness, trying to make sure the player doesn't notice Kris's unusual knowledge about things. Maybe because Kris wasn't supposed to know and ralsei is some sort of tutorial entity that can't process this.
This is interesting and all but I REALLY appreciate your use of paragraphs, I rarely see people do that these days
Wait but what about the Roaring? Remember in chapter one Ralsei said they need to destroy the Angels heaven. So what would that imply?
[they: Kris]
I'm thinking A LOT about what Kris really want and why they act the way they act when they somehow breaks out the player's control and I never thought that they could have been contacted by the same "man" that told the same things to Jevil and Spamton, it really makes sense.
Prior to the player's arrive in Deltarune, Kris were a "living" being like any other character, then they become a vessel for the player's soul; what's new here is the fact that Kris can somehow and sometimes break free of the player's control, even if for just a short period of time.
We can't tell yet how they can do that but we could try answering to WHY: this may sound obvious but I think that, like any other Deltarune character that resembles their Undertale's counterpart in shape, thinking and the way they act, Kris might be just like the first fallen human in Undertale, known as Chara.
No, Kris isn't Chara, they just are a new character that look and act like Chara.
They both act like creepy kids but most importantly they both may want to destroy the world and they know they can't do it alone so they make big plans to achieve it.
Chara was just a human child in a world full of other humans so they went to the Underground and discovered that if you mix a human and a monster soul you become god, however monster' souls disappear in a very short time so the only way was to kill themselves and make a monster absorb their soul: Asriel confirmed that when he did this and went to the human world, he felt the control of Chara willing to kill everyone but opposed it.
In a similar way, Kris is just a kid, they can't just kill everyone so they may be trying to break the balance between light and dark and let the Roar destroy the world.
That would make Kris an "evil" character, so, why's yelling after Spmaton's fight?
I initially thought that was fear, but I'm thinking that they're just angry.
@@lapispiderp1544 Wow, i didn't know about it. (I didn't remember that ralsei said that.)
But i think It might mean ending the game, or the chapter.
Like if the angel is a vessel for heaven. and heaven is the player or players, banish the heaven, and the player is no longer in the game.
The screen fades to black, and we are let wondering what happens the next "day".
But idk. Maybe "heaven" is another thing we don't know yet, or an actual location in the game that will appear in the future.
@@kirailgun3800 i think that might even explain the end of the chapter 2 because as we can see kris gets his sword out and it looks like if they were making another dark fountain just like berdly wanted to do on the cyber world ( correct if im wrong or if i misspelled something is just that i cant english)
There've already been dozens of theories on the meanings behind Deltarune and Undertale. A lot of them revolving around the fact that some of the characters know they're not in control. Especially not the main character. And Toby does hint at that concept a lot in both games. But, I think this was the creepiest way of going about it.
I think that "kris" has some power in this dialogue, like when u say "yes" u say it in a "strained" voice, "YOU" chose to say yes but "kris" doesn't want to say yes and so resisted; On the other hand if you said "no", "kris" highly supports this making him yell when normally other dialogue than this is said by "kris" is on a normal tone.
wait this would actually make sense
*them yell
Yeah!! And it explains how in some other dialogue it’s mentioned that they say something confidently or quickly
I think most 2 option choices have 1 that would be Kris's choice and one extra for the player
If you pick the one Kris would choose it doesn't come out as monotone
I think this is also why normally no one questions Kris or their actions, but in the snowgrave route Noelle comments on the voice commanding her being different from Kris, and Ralsei on how they look "hurt". I believe Kris acts normally in the normal route because it's in line with what they would've done, not making too many objections. The snowgrave route however, being horrible, is not what they want to do at all so the player has to take more control, as otherwise Kris would resist.
The way Ralsei just tells us. . . to forget what happened, is Just so suspicious of him. . . also the fact he does not turn to statue, and that he moved to another dark world without being carried by someone, its all really suspicious
He came from the main dark fountain so i think that can make him got to other dark world?.(random room)
I believe there’s one line in the chapter that basically says that Ralsei is pure darkness, so he’s fine to enter any other darkworld. (And it’s why darkworlders from Lancer’s world and Queen’s world can all live in Ralsei’s world. It’s like the main darkworld place that can let any darkworlder live without turning to stone)
@@braintrope4736 i played the whole chapter
Nothing like this is ever said
@@70Lu07 Well I did and there definitely is. I am still wondering about how he can move to any dark world on his own tho. Still, it might just be the same explanation as before. He’s from the darkworld made of the fountain of pure darkness, so he can just *do* that, I guess. I wonder if they’ll address it in the future chapters
@@braintrope4736 So ur telling us he uses exploits to go to the other worlds
I think its important to note that Kris, when he tears out his soul, cant walk normally, and has to stagger. We know a human cant live without its soul for an extended period of time (outside of battles), so I wonder if this was referencing that, even if Kris destroyed his strings (His Soul), he would just die as a result.
Which probably added to their fear here considering Kris most definitely considered just keeping their heart in the cage so they could remain in control.
It’s like choosing not to drive your car today and looking outside to see it suddenly catch flame. It’s this weird gut wrenching feeling that makes you realize how vulnerable you are.
you dont know that....you dont know this person is human....truth is this person may just be the opposite entirely for this alone. A human DOES die without their soul....this isn't normal at all...it means something.
Personally, I doubt it because the SOUL was meant for our vessel alone
We, the Player were supposed to control our character yet somehow the entity in the beginning of Chapter 1 (not the gaster entity) made us get thrown into Kris’s life.
They actually move like that before ripping out the soul. Implying to me that someone else is taking control of them to do that, abd jeep us from preventing their plans.
@@finkriel1814 i suspect that was kris- that kris with his boundless determination younked our soul from the either and made us his prisoner to mess with.
As the ultimate prank- he's going around making dark fountains and leaving us to deal with them
When i got to that "is everything ok" part, i got confused and started looking around the screen in case i missed something.
And my heart just sank when i saw Ralsei just casually out of bounds staring right into my soul.
He knows something is wrong. Perhaps he knows way more than we do.
Would not be surprised if he ends up an antagonist at some point.
@@SomeCameo the fact that ralsei mentioned making a cake and offering it to be chocolate, butterscotch or even cinnamon flavored has me questioning ralsei's identity considering main time we ever hear those 3 words being used is in relation to frisk/chara/asriel, plus let's not forget that ralsei is all about not wanting to do any violence........ and while not really a big deal i also find it strange how ralsei is a goat which we see none of in the dark world AT ALL..... kinda suspicious if u ask me, ngl toby is up to something there i can feel it
I felt guilty for thinking bad of ralsei the whole chapter 2, specially when he tries to disregard what happened with spamton.
@@rizhtrainer ye
@@ARCEUS493ZELDA On top of that, he can exist in seperate Dark Worlds without becoming a statue like Lancer or Rouxls, which implies that Ralsei isn't actually a part of the Dark World, but rather someone of Kris's own imagination
"That got kris smiling."
i know this is just one simple line but i like to think that susie said that to make kris laugh/lighten the mood after what happend, yknow! shock humour!
Yeah, I love that even though “Kris” said that they were fine, Susie didn’t want to continue until she made sure that they were feeling better
I love how susie cares so much about Kris, the one who she tried to bite their face off
Nobody can resist a member of the Blue Man Group
Susie has grown so much since the start
@@All54321 yeah, even if it was only 2 days (sorry my bad English)
@@чмоня-в1щ not that bad
And then stopped because their mom was hot
its nice too see that kris was smiling when he was cheered up, which make me believe that the people they meet are really valuable to them..
Or it could be that the player just regained control of them when they start smiling.
@@MysticSlime well you didn't get the option to smile so maybe it is Kris
when was Chris Smiling? Can someone time stamp? I can never catch it
@@Nonyanomo It’s in the dialogue, not actually a sprite
@@Nonyanomo 2:30
Kris might be one of my favorite playable characters in an RPG. They know they're being controlled, they know they're actions are being influenced from by someone else. I can't wait to see how else this plays into story.
*they/them
@@rosethorn7923 That doesn't matter. Think of it more as the player putting their story onto the character.
@@fnaffoxy1987 I just don't get this argument. Like, if a character uses he/him or she/her no one would just randomly use different pronouns. No one goes around saying "well Mario is a self insert, so to me, she's a girl."
@@rosethorn7923 It's a "Role Playing Game", so probably you play the role of the character the way you want. For characters like Link in Zelda, it's confirmed that he's male, but he's called link so the player can put their personality on him, that's part of why he doesn't talk, or so I heard. For me, if a gender isn't specified I'll say what I want, it's easier that way to speak. If a gender is specified then I'll go with it unless it's utterly ridiculous like someone identifying as a helicopter.
@@fnaffoxy1987 pronouns *are* one way to confirm gender though? like even if no one in the game said "Link is a boy" you would know he is one because people talk about him with he/him, right? so if a character is talked about with they/them that means they're nonbinary. besides, there's the practical issue of, if you take a character who uses they/them and then some people use he/him and some people use she/her, it's just more confusing, lol.
I think the bosses are representing different ideas of "freedom above all else" so far. Jevil represents the idea that absolute freedom is incomprehensible chaos, represented by his battle patterns, which eventually devolve into random things you get by with a sliver of your health left. Spamton represents the idea that freedom is never attainable in its entirety, always depending on others (strings). I'm interested with what the chapter 3 boss is gonna be about.
Some were saying it could be a muffet or spider boss if we're working our way backwards iin terms of genocide bosses. I also think this could be explained by a spider hanging out in the corner of the living room somewhere in the real world. Not confirmed or anything but I thought it was a good theory.
@@MysticSlime nah ch3 boss is chariel
@@Cozmikazi gl explaining your mom why her beloved chair is missing in the end of chapter 3
edit: oh yeah she will be there to understand why there is that
Maybe a boss will be freedom at the cost of safety? Like with how Jevil devolved into complete chaos the new boss might just be someone wanting to break free from rules and regulations but in the end sacrificing something for it? I don't know, might be too similar to Spamton... But I do feel like Toby is exploring a lot of well-discussed and dismantled ideas of freedom that have existed for decades in philosophy through these characters.
@@MysticSlime so that would mean the idea of absolute control. The idea of no control, then perhaps the idea of gaining too much control over others
I've got a pretty interesting theory. The reason why Ralsei is constantly so nice to Kris throughout the game so far is because he knows every choice we're making is us forcing Kris to do that. So Ralsei, instead of wanting to have Kris feel bad for doing things he can't control, he acts nice no matter what you do so Kris doesn't feel bad.
I genuinely like how this game tries to give Kris some character
True
Kris's character is probably my favorite part about Deltarune, if you inspect alot you get alot of info about them.
@@Apotheosister
That's so true and i also like that
Kris tries to manipulate your actions alot this chapter, straining words and ignoring things even if you chose one or the other. It's pre unique
@@karll0424 I think when there was even something like this during the tail end of chapter one, after being tricked by the king kris went to defend susie before she was hurt or worse, the player had no involvement in this implying it was likely kris themselves, this may imply that kris shows some form of comradery towards susie specifically.
No one talks about how Ralsei literally walks outside the walke able path during this cutscene, wtf is he?
Yeah, Ralsei able through the wall of path without glitches and non/clip in cutscene.
Papyrus did it as well when he front flipped through Undyne's window in Undertale
@@vinteb7987 Not to mention papyrus walks on water after the fight with him
there’s no magic glass under him so it’s definitely part of the room
Cute
awful strange that susie was the one asking real questions and trying to help kris while ralsei just shut down any attempt at understanding what spamtons deal was
Another thing to approach is that up to this point kris has not killed a darkner or presumably anyone for that matter (unless you do an aborted snowgrave which i mean everyone else considers it to have not happened for some reason so i dont know), he legitimately killed this guy, it was essentially an assisted suicide, even worse than that because spamton honestly thought it was gonna set him free but it just ended up murdering him.
For a kid thats honestly pretty fucked up.
i did an aborted snowgrave, i thought something would happen if you kept berdly alive, had to find out it really doesnt do anything so now i feel like a shit person
Hell, even during a Snowgrave run, I've heard how other characters will point out at how uneasy Kris looks. Meaning that, yes, Kris is not a bad guy.
@@toasturhztoastbunz896 i feel so bad for kris man
Spamtom's not dead though, he went back to his previoud state and then decided to lend his power to you.
Though hat still doesnt invalidate everything you said, Kris "freed" him and Spamton shut down completely, even if he recovered afterwards that sight shocked him.
I have a feeling that spamton knew that I’d his strings broke, he would still die. He keeps mentioning things about heaven after the fight.
Toby is a genius when it comes to characters and story. Can't wait to see where this all leads...
dude imagine if the end to deltarune kris breaks free from the strings and then krris fights YOU the player
@@t-bone5041 i would like to see that happen
@@t-bone5041 it'd be interesting if Kris fought the vessel WE created.
@@fartd1ng if that was true i would see a bald guy with a hoodie and a blue kid fighting him
@@t-bone5041 or you fight him as your vessel
2:51 ".....Spamton himself even says that Kris is 'just like him' as they're both just controlled by some outside force....."
( queens accent) Lmao I Can Imagine This As An Online Player Versus Player Pokemon Game
👁v👁
*regal laughter*
Ralsei comes off unintentionally creepy in both these responses, but especially the yes one.
This reminds me of the "Asriel room" in the Mansion. If you choose to enter, Kris will enter because they have no choice, but they do it with their eyes closed using the little freedom they have.
EDIT: Replaced "he" and "his" with gender-neutral pronouns.
That’s something I didn’t realize but is really interesting.
At first I thought of it as a joke, but looking back that makes more sense. Hell, knowing Toby's ways it's probably both a troll and actual lore reasoning.
They have no choice, they have
Did Kris not want to see, or did they not want US to see? I wonder.
Kris uses they/them pronouns canonically btw
"Kris, I'll make some cake for you later, OK? I could even make it chocolate-flavored, Butterscotch, Cinnamon... whatever you want"
Holy shit, is he trying to calm you down by subconsciously reminding you of Toriel? He clearly knows more than he's letting on, plus he is definitely connected to Asriel in some way.
His name its literally Asriel but with the letters switched, and he looks identical with UT Asriel, exept for his pink eyes and diferent clothing. Hes obviouslly conected to Asriel, but we cant do much besides wait until his connection with Asriel is showned
He also tries to calm Kris down by saying "Don't worry about it. Just think of something you like, something nice... something soft." ...like, himself? Is his very purpose of exsistence to be something Kris would like? A person designed to comfort and reassure Kris?
@@murilouflavio3937 Seems Toriel and Ralsai will interact in chapter 3 so I wonder what will happen
Sus.
Yeah it'll be interesting to see the Ralsei and Toriel interaction (since there most likely will be one)
Personally, I feel like Kris has little to no influence in their actions, so they do little things like screaming "no" and making a "yes" sound strained in order to get the attention of their friends.
I feel that the comic "Paper Trail" helps illustrate it more, and though it's off and deconfirmed on some aspects of the game, it's still a good representation of Kris, Susie, and the rest of them.
That's why Kris is my favorite, he's just so mysterious, interesting and funny xd
I think the most eerie thing about this is just how cold Toby's world overall is. It comes off as this fun bubbly world with characters that are as random as their debatably existent sanity meter. It tries to come off as silly and whacky but when it gets right down to it this world is dark, cruel, and vile. Spamton was a man that wanted freedom, to be a big shot, and yet when he finally got to the precipice of freedom the world mocks him by making his puppet strings visible and adding another layer to his failure just to rub it in he dies the moment his strings are cut. Having to then acknowledge he'll never be anything more than a puppet which ultimately encourages him to just give up existing by giving you some of his power to aid you. And yet despite his pleas, despite his desperate calls for help, the world just...tosses him to the side. Susie tries coming up with a reason why the fight happened and what Spamton's end goal was but Ralsei quickly dismisses it and just assumes there's no meaning behind what Spamton had done.
On the surface, sure this makes sense. They don't know Spamton, they didn't really get the chance to bond with him so to them he was just a stranger actively trying to kill them, but to me, this just goes to show how cruel Toby's world is. It doesn't even let the characters TRY to see the lens from another man's eyes. They just quickly dismiss it, help Kris cope, and then move on. Making everything Spamton suffer through and the lengths he ultimately went through completely for nothing. He couldn't even inspire a single soul to try and break their strings to see their world for what it truly is.
I still think Jevil is the FAR BETTER boss fight with far better music, dialogue, and aesthetic but if there's one thing Spamton does have over Jevil is his message. This world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a dark, mean, and nasty place that'll beat ya til' you're on the ground if you let it.
Sonder is what it's called, I believe.
The realization that Spamton had his own story, probably just as if not more complex than Kris'/our own.
But we won't get to see that side of him- and it's kinda.. sad. Sonder.
In the snowgrave version, he berates kris for trying to call his friends for help at the bottom of the dumpster. Felt incredibly personal and specific, maybe someone actually said those same words to him
@@gabrielegenota1480 Yeah, sonder is a nice word
I'm starting to get the feeling that Ralsei isn't necessarily on the level. Ya dig?
in snowgrave i was connfused why spamton just wanted conqure the palace and neon world but after finising both ending and reading this comment i relised why
in spamton's eyes if you want be free you need to make someone to be your slave that why he wasnt free thats why he wanted SOUL of kris lightners can create worlds thats why he wanted SOUL of kris just to be fully free
in snow grave we destroryed all obstacles to him so he can go to palace and get neo armor easly so we gave him good end in snwograve for a while
The more I see stuff like this happen, the more I believe that Kris is starting to slowly understand that they can't take the SOUL out without making them basically vulnerable and weak.
So instead of trying to cut the strings off like what happened to Spamton, Kris is actually complying with the voice's commands (IE: us the player) so Kris doesn't end up hurting themselves or others (which is what everyone thought Kris would do at the ending of Chapter 1, only to be told that he only ate the whole pie instead in Chapter 2).
PS: Susie is really proving herself to be a kind, caring friend who tries her best to befriend others even when she hates their guts. The fact that she comforts Kris when he was obviously nervous about what happened really proves the point that she's turning into a true protagonist than a simple side character (which could effect things in later chapters for either other side characters or Kris himself)
if you think about it, kris complying with the soul means that at the end of chapter 1, she tried to lock it away so he could get some pie, to have something good in their few moments of free will, something unaffected by being vulnerable
@@waffles4670 That is true, remember when everyone thought he would kill someone for so long only to find out that he only went for the pie?
@@waffles4670 i would understand if you misgender kris as he but SHE? that is WAY off
In Snowgrave she’s the one who suggests Queen lives in Castle Town and seems to be more open to Noelle so if we do keep going down the “weird” route there’s potential she’s being built up to an Undyne-esque protag
0:22 Ralsei: He turned into our ally, so lets just accept it (starts looking directly at us)
if you pay attention susie never looks to us, she only does that when we say yes... weird huh?
Wow sus he looks down the floor so sussy
Holy shit now I finally know what Susie meant at the beginning of the game, when she said: "Your choices don't matter" it was directed at Kris, not the player.
Tf? It wasnt susie that said it at the beginning
Focus on the fucking game@@LiterallyNuts01
@@Rerizga404 yea but still it wasnt-
@@LiterallyNuts01 she did say it tho and it was on the beginning too, what you should say is she wasn't the first one to say it. 😉😉
All jokes and memes aside, Spamton was already unstable, like even though he fights you and has a shop, there's still something incredibly off and unsettling about him. Then being cornered by his Neo form as he wants to rip out your soul in order to obtain "freedom", his whole fight where he keeps talking about getting free from being a puppet, being considered the same as him. Kris has awareness that he's being controlled as from the ending of Chapter 1 ripping out the soul.
Kris probably yells the “no” and is strained with the “yes” because they want to tell their friends that they’re not okay but can’t because the player controls their actions. It’s quite chilling when you think about it
The way in which Ralsei's just like "oh it's nothing!" in response to Kris being distressed (to the point where they were yelling) in regards to Spamton dying immediately after his strings are cut is... suspicious at best
Starting to think the goat boy has some sort of agenda because of that
I don't care if he is lying or whatever he will forever and always be my Fluffyboy💚
It wasn't really "oh it's nothing" though.. I agree that he's a bit suspicious in that scene, especially his lack of overall reaction, but I prefer to think it's him just trying to comfort Kris. Besides, there isn't really much to Spamton being defeated once the strings are cut. He doesn't even die, it's not even his true body, just the mind transferred into some other robot.
was gonna comment this, 100% agreed, ralsei's hiding something big. Throughout chapter 2 he hides so many things from the player that i just think he's gonna turn out to be evil or some shit as well :v
Im guessing it might have something to do with him knowing about the player controlling kris or him being the one to cause it maybe.
Yeah, a lot of Ralsei's dialogue here and when he was first introduced in Chapter 1 made me suspicious of him.
Also, it's really weird that he can walk outside the path that Kris and Susie are on in this scene, maybe something to do with how he gets to the Cyber-World even though it's never shown to be connected to the Castle Town?
The only other characters from Chapter 1 that we see in Chapter 2 are there because they were in Kris's pocket, so how does Ralsei get there on his own?
@@starpower1884 absolutely same
Fact: Spamton gets angry if you do the [BIG SHOT] trick (holding enter and pressing z) and his damage will increase during battle with new update of the game
Theory Time: Actually as you know we were supposed to get our vessel we created but we got interrupted by person who says"will now be discarded your name is" because of them whoever they are we got kris's soul (possession) the question is why the hell were we wanted to create a vessel for? For what? And who's the guy that says our vessel will be nothing what are we even doing with the soul given to us? Is deltarune an experiment that made by gaster?(not sure it's gaster) because in gaster's entry number seventeen, something is getting dark and darker, could this be the dark fountains?
That's interesting, might have to make a video on that soon!
I'm waiting! (also maybe spamton gets angry just cuz he doesn't want to get spammed with [BIG SHOTS] )
So...it's indeed a 'feature'
Yeah. I though Toby knew nothing about it, turned out he was the one had 1 step ahead.
@@KLAO_
Ascended glitch
I really wish that there was a way for me to help Kris. Like I feel really bad about everything sense their self aware and everything. I guess it’s the main reason I do the pacific run so Kris isn’t forced to hurt/kill anyone. I know this isn’t going to happen, but I really want to have a Kris and player conversation.
yeah i get ya, if possible i want to play deltarune favoring what kris truly wants, and it would be nice if toby rewarded us for doing so.
Remember that our vessel we created was taken from us. I hope Kris and gang separates us from themselves and they defeat whatever took our body so we can get our body back and explain everything. I'd imagine everyone would be mad at us though and we'd have to earn trust.
I just want an ending where you can tell Kris that they can be free, and have the option to delete Deltarune off your computer. I just finished Undertale today (true pacifist route) and am going to delete it for the same reasons.
I agree
Man, Ralsei seemed so... suspicious this chapter. Especially in this cutscene. Just dismissing Susie's questions, telling them that Spamton's words about puppetry and having the power to break their own strings were just because he was a corrupted program and that they shouldn't think about it so hard, he was definitely acting off.
Also his complete lack of interaction with Noelle and Berdly. If you edit the files to get Noelle to drink Ralsei Tea, it's just water.
But I mean, his only purpose was to fulfill the prophecy. And since Spamton is an optional boss, it doesn't matter to him.
But I mean, his only purpose was to fulfill the prophecy. And since Spamton is an optional boss, it doesn't matter to him.
@@alexanderthemidI even so, Kris is very scared by the situation. And ralsei is literally like "stop being a wimp, it meant nothing. We should move on and stop asking questions now" thats stupidly out of character. He's typically the first one to comfort and ease their worries. Not brush them aside like nothing happened
@@pancakes8816 If you hug Ralsei during the boat ride before fighting s
Spamton, he'll hug you in an attempt to comfort you.
Kris Screaming is so sad. We know that he's a puppet because we made him one, and its breaking him. He cant tell anyone about this cause nobody would understand, nobody would believe him. And i really like how Susie actually didnt stay silent on this, she mentioned it and it caused Kris too break down for a moment. Ralsei acts like everything is fine, and even tells Kris too not think about it. Ralsei has been acting very suspicous as the chapter goes on, and this part bothered me because ralsei had no problem sweeping it aside.
Glad someone finally said this. I was starting to think that everybody was sweeping him under the rug.
Thank you for saying this. I was also suspicious of Ralsei ever since the beginning of the chapter, he always seemed to be hiding something.
*they/them
@@rosethorn7923 thank you for correcting me, I keep automatically saying he
@@rosethorn7923 Cringe
I like to think that Kris is AT LEAST in control of his voice when we're controlling him. That talk of all that puppetry must have triggered Kris because that's literally happening to him right now.
*they/them
@steler?? kris only uses they/them
@steler where in the game does it use she or he for kris?
@@rosethorn7923 who cares. whenever someone uses the incorrect pronouns on a fictional character you just HAVE to correct them. stop. kris is a character that can be determined to your liking, just like frisk. some people just choose to call kris, "him" or "her". just because toby fox said that it is they/them, that doesnt stop people from calling kris him/her.
@@cnretrowolf why do you care so much?
Everyone: focusing on Kris going crazy by being controlled by the player
Me: pondering on how Ralsei knows every possible cake Kris could love 2:00
every other comment about ralsei being kinda strange could be attributed to them trying to get kris to stop worrying about it simply to make them not be in constant pain, but ralsei knowing about butterscotch and cinnamon brings him over the line
@@waffles4670 not too mention chocolate
Chara's chocolate and Tourisms Toriel's butterscotch-cinnamon pie in undertale being referenced could be just a reference or a hint at much deeper lore we don't know yet.
@@silvervaliant I figured as much it is worth noticing
I think this is one of the best scenes in the game. We truly see the characters shine for who they are. Susie is being a good friend in her own way not with a there there like ralsei would but making Kris laugh with her usual antics. It's actually really heartwarming.
I still firmly think all that is caused by Ralsei casually stepping out of bounds like a god.
Kris starts to doubt Ralsei. I'm getting such huge Flowey vibes, and it's 100% intentional.
Stop it fluffy boi, you already stole my soul.
lol I imagined that there was just some extra path there but now I'm imagining ralsei floating in the void just beyond the bounds of their world
ralsei is really sus because hes just telling you to forget about it after all that, hes also not turning to stone when hes from the dark world.
@@katzagain2580 And that weird moment where he seems to know in advance that the player (not Kris) was supposed to see the conversation between Noelle and Susie
true i picked yes in my playthrough and after seeing this no response Ralsei seems even more sus.
@@katzagain2580 the original Starwalker doesn’t turn to stone either
I always thought part of the reason Kris reacts so emotionally is because Spamton NEO resembles the design on Asriel's computer at the beginning.
well his wings arent really "Rainbow", asriel from undertale on the otherhand...
Yeah, I think that design is meant to reference Asriel’s “God of Hyperdeath” form from the Undertale True Pacifist ending
I saw it as them being afraid of the fact Spamton is also a puppet, especially because Kris is also unsettled by him when we first meet him
@@a.dykeman1980 It's literally just referencing Mettaton Neo from the Genocide route what are y'all talking about? 😭
@@a.dykeman1980 it's a reference to mettaton neo who has a set of wings
In fact this entire fight is what mettaton neo would've been if alphys worked on the defenses however with alot less paper and cardboard and money
I dunno if people saw this, but if you say No and you've built enough affection with Ralsei over the game, he will also hug you in addition to his regular dialogue.
Yes. This. 👍
Is there any video about it?
@@Soloesecutore I gotchu 👌 ruclips.net/video/p2d4XUBCMGU/видео.html
You have to hug him on the Acid Lake ride to get him to hug you during this dialogue.
I think he has a crush on kris
Deltarune mod where the only difference is that an actual sound-effect of Kris yelling plays during that scene and makes it a little more horrifying
And make sure that the audio clip is this ruclips.net/video/C1AauAyQ_wg/видео.html
@@Glorpuya Please tell me that link is that one really cursed p0rn0 scream.
@@leahnzastrzelecki5217 there’s a single way to find out
@@Glorpuya Ok, that was better than I expected Lol!
which?
Spamton: Maybe you will be able to break your own strings
Me who is controlling the actions of the protagonists.
Spamton breaks the 4th wall, and it’s DEEP!!
I love how the fandom of this game is pure geniuses. The game only gave a bit of hint and they even hidden it somewhere in the game, but only a couple of days, people already found everything and even made their own theories, which for me is logical.
I think the best part so far to me is that I still can't put my finger on Kris's intentions at all, it's implied they're the knight at the end (or something like that) but stuff like this and their interactions that don't have our involvement make me wonder just what's going on inside their head
I've seen alot of people say Kris is the knight becuase of the ending to chapter two but I don't think Kris is the knight, it wouldn't make sense and we already have plenty of evidence that points to gaster or a different, entirely knew character being the knight.
I think the ending was just Kris copying the knight/being Influenced by the knight, just like Queen, The king, spamton and jevil where Influenced/corrupted.
@@k-bot187 Or the knight is someone else, and Kris, having just learned how to create a dark fountain from Queens' exposition, wants to continue their adventure for... Some reason? (Fear of what happens when the game ends and their strings are cut? Something to do with why the internet is down and all the routes out of town seem to be closed? Something to do with Asriel? Thrill of winning battles and making friends? A combination of 2 or more of these theories maybe?)
@@hamishwalker672 possibly, and that's a good point but people who say Kris is The knight are just wrong.
Yeah, some people have speculated that there could be third force at play in controlling kris but I doubt it. Just kinda odd that normal Kris does all this weird stuff as well.
@@MysticSlime I'd say Kris is the knight mainly because whenever we take control and go to the Dark World; the save file becomes our name. This may imply that when Kris is off doing his own thing with the soul trapped somewhere and he enters the Dark World he probably becomes the Knight. But then again theres something that doesn't add up and it's that for the 1st and 2nd fountain formed he had enough time to convince their rulers to do something but this time he doesn't even bother to do anything at all.
Maybe the Knight was always there somewhere following us whenever we enter a dark world.
2:27 Why does no one talk about them smiling? It's a small detail but it tells us that Kris does have emotions outside of our control and that he does seem to enjoy the two's company.
hey can we talk about how ralsei moved out of bounds in this scene
Honestly, ralsei was always a little _sussy_ in this chapter
I think it has something to do with dark world not being real but we still had proof that its real
@@pizzaguy_ i think that is like omori dream world but gaster did something to it that made it "real"
Possible be he breaking 4th wall and through the path of wall in cutscene.
I mean papyrus does it too in undertale-
I felt like that happened so that tiny sliver of land wouldn't be too cluttered when Susie moved, and with him moving to the other side of Kris, there'd be no point of him moving back in place.
I love this team, the way ralsei and susie try to cheer up kris after the experience they just went through is incredible, that kind of friends will solve any problem for you
I would hate to see ralsei being secretly bad or up to something though.. he’s really supportive and caring but.. how does he know the outside world..? God i I can’t wait for chapter 3
Kris: *...
*(Nothing but a puppet, huh?)
*(And Spamton said that he and I are alike.)
*(...)
*(Come on, he could be taunting me for all I know.)
*(Yeah, he was probably trying to psyche me out.)
*(Even so...)
*(Why do his words...)
*Kris trembles.
Kris: *(...cut so deeply...?)
*Perish*
"Why the hell'd you say it so enthusiastically?!"
Wonder if there's a tracker for picking dialogue options Kris is 100% on-board with, things they definitely would say without player input, just like in this scene.
i think those advertisements did affect kris someway, since during the normal spamton fight the dialogue boxes during your turns are full of ads where was supposed to be kris descriptions, spamton does corrupt the game in some ways, maybe he corrupted some of kris files, and also knows about the existence of the player
a good example :
there is nothing wrong
there is NOTHING WRONG
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG
"think about something you like
Something nice
Something soft."
*You think about ralsei*
THE ANNOYING DOG
*T H I G H S*
I think Kris is shocked because they know they are being controlled by us, the player. I actually want a pacifist ending later in the game (chapters) where Kris and the player (soul) accept each other and be friends or smth
God, I know this scene is impactful as the player, seeing how we impact Kris, but I love the character interactions. Both with how tough Susie is, seeing her so concerned about Kris here, even pulling a joke to make them feel better is a very touching moment, I really like Susie as a character. And it’s also very interesting to see how Kris takes to Ralsei’s comfort. Kris doesn’t budge until getting Susie’s help, and we saw from the tea theory that Kris doesn’t seem to like Ralsei very much. I just find the trio’s dynamic really interesting and I can’t wait to see what Toby does with them in chapters 3-7.
I don't think Ralsei is evil tbh, he is just trying to make Kris feel better.
who even thinks Ralsei is evil?
@@void1845 A lot of people
@@void1845 i think people were thinking that ralsei was hiding something cause the whole chapter he was acting really suspicious
He's kris imaginary brother from the past so like how his creation can betray him?
@@rat2316 *flashbacks from like... almost anywhere*
I love me an emotionally unstable protagonist
Thanks, Toby Fox, for teaching me this!
(Also shoutout to Susie for caring about mental health)
Edit: Also, both secret bosses have related to Kris. Kris, according to Monster Teen, is scared of that door that makes slowed down Gaster noises, Kris is aware that this is all a game (Or at least the first Dark World since they followed Ralsei's instructions) and Kris is a puppet.
this may be a long shot, but the player gets to look at the door and get close to it (despite kris being afraid) and since it's mysterious and it's just THERE, we have reason to go in there if given the chance. since gaster and the soul are known to exist(by some people) but relatively unknown in how they work, that might be the player trying to reach gaster (who's inside the room) just to see if he can help the soul break free. possibly to give kris a normal life again
Susie certified best girl.
the fact that Kris smiled after Susie's joke means that Kris might like being Susie's friend
Ralsai hugged me, when i said no during this scene.
I believe that happens if you go for the ride on the acid lake with him *before* fighting Spamton, and hug him for the photo. So darn cute
Oh yeah. I saw that in another video of this cutscene. Now that was nice to see. But in that other video the cutscene was also way longer with extra dialogue about how Susie wouldn't hug Kris.
*edit* I apparently found a comment on another video, Apparently according to them Ralsei only hugs you if you have some sort of save data in the game files for him being ok with hugs. Which comes after that swan boat in the acid ride and after the photo if you choose to hug Ralsei there.
Ralsei also hugged me, and I also hugged him when I was in the acid lake, I'm glad i didn't miss that scene
Chapter 7 gonna have the player be the "Roaring" themselves and have the whole world against them, and the only way to get "good ending" is to lose
Doesn't feel like it tbh we dont know enough to judge that yet
Kris Is gonna go Eren mode on everybody, I just know It...
bruh it will like those anime with the ending of the protagonist becoming the villain in order for the world to defeat them, like code geass or aot or idk
I do not think there will be a good ending. If Toby makes multiple endings to completed Deltarune (I recall hearing somewhere that there will only be one ending to the whole thing but given the variations in how chapter 2 can finish I doubt it will be just one) I would be willing to bet that one of them will be Kris breaking free completely from the player's control and unleashing the Roaring. And in another I would expect the player to control far more than they do now like how in Snowgrave they make Noelle listen to their orders.
@@gibgodgamer495 i dont think he lied,just lack of information
Roaring knight could be anybody,as long if they have great power
I wonder if it'll be a reoccurring theme, that all secret bosses in the upcoming chapter will have freedom as some sort of theme. Jevil, thinking he was free and everyone else was locked away, then Spamton, a literal puppet on strings longing to be free.
Also I also wonder why Kris- _who obviously despise us (The Soul/Player) for controlling them_ - still keeps us around, maybe it would be like Spamton's case? Like, if we cut ties with Kris they would die and turn into nothingness? or they're keeping us because they have something in store for us that only we can do that they can't? I don't know, only 2 chapters have been released after all, but it's still fun to theorized about!
Every time Kris removes us/their soul, they shamble around. I don’t think they can do much without their soul. It frees them from our control, but at a cost. If they leave it out for too long then something bad would probably happen to them.
I don't think they despise the player in pacifist, especially since they played a prank on the soul in the end of chapter 1
Yes Kris wants freedom and we will help him get it
"If you say it all strained like that, I'm not gonna think you're OK..."
Kris WANTS to say "No" But since the player selected yes, he has absolutely no choice
The reason he yells "No" is because he finally got to say what he wanted to say, which almost never happens, being that we only get pre-determined dialogue choices, Kris NEVER gets to speak his mind.
another small detail: if you hugged ralsei during the acid boat ride, he'll hug kris back in this cutscene
2:32
"Heh that got kris smiling"
Kris: -_-
Kris wasn't screaming because they were confused, its because they lost the only sigma friend in the game.
Wow
poor Kris, he can't keep the cool people around
It’s interesting that Kris, despite being the stoic and silent hero, actually has a lot of genuine character-establishing moments in part 2
It’s interesting how their cold, long stare is canon because it makes moments like this when they emote all the more potent
If Ralsei's Subject is a Hug Prince,
After He is comforting you, he proceeds to give Kris a Hug.
Also demanding Susie does it as well.
(I picked No, but don't know what happens when I choose Yes)
How do you get that subject?
@@rafidifrancesco7956 Just hug 'em for the picture on the acid boat ride.
I have a feeling in chapter 3 or 4 we’ll start to breakdown the mental state of Kris and his knowledge of “the player’s” (your) control on Kris. Due to Toby Fox’s consistancy, I believe he likes to show past chapter decisions in new chapters. (For example, the battle tank design in the first chapter is brought back in the second chapter when you fight Rouxls Kaard in the acid ride part.) So I believe that the character you made in the beginning will eventually appear in a later chapter. But because it’s a vessel, it will not be “alive” but on the ground and limp like NEO Spamton was in the ending of their fight. Kris will probably encounter this vessel and probably try and put the soul in it to “free” themselves of the player. But who knows what might happen to Kris...
honestly seeing the vessel you created at the beginning of the game running around extremely hostile and limp would be terrifying
...................suddenly i'm very glad that i always chose the options 'love' or 'hope' when it asks me how i feel about the vessel
last fucking thing i need is eventually having to duke it out/try to leave a vessel i imprinted with words like 'horror' or 'disgust'.............
@@katsucandy i chose disgust and its favorite food was pain. This will be fun
kris uses they/them
I have a horrible feeling that Gaster played us for a fool, and we just created HIS vessel at the start of the game...
What really creeped me out is Ralsei’s reaction to all of this, he doesn’t fucking care. Or at least, he only cares if it’s making Kris/Us feel bad. He wants us to ignore Spamtons words and he wants Kris to stop thinking about it. I dunno, just how Ralsei framed himself in the whole conversation felt gross and manipulative.
Undertales message on the topic of kindness, can essentially be boiled down to: it’s a good thing to always be kind, to help those who are hurting and redeem the unredeemable. I feel like Deltarune is going to continue talking about how incessant kindness can be evil too.
Yeah, it really hurts me knowing this....
as ralsei lover shut u
I can’t wait for the following chapters to expand more on this and break the 4th wall more like Undertale did
It's like if even when the player is controling kris, they're still able to do some things, like after you make noelle snowgrave berdley, ralsei points out that you don't seem 'ok', i'm guessing by the look of kris' face. They didn't want this to happen, yet the player's will is stronger than theirs
0:49 I guess ralsei is talking about himself.
Kris has such good friends... I wish we as the player could make them feel better too, I hope later on there will be some choice to either let them go or help them in some way. I feel really bad for Kris, I wish we could give them the world ;_;
It hurts that it’s our fault that they feel that way. Us controlling them is making them go through so much. I want to help them but I don’t know how really :( I just want to pick the dialogue options that Kris most likely would say.
What I love so much about this game is that your learn random details throughout the game that seem insignificant at first, but with the context of what is leanred in the future makes more sence.
gosh, Kris- they really are having it bad and this was...weirdly heartwarming