the pacifist one just made me so sad. he was so happy, he was going to be free, I didn't wanna cut the last wire, and see him fall. but I did. still gives me chills thinking about the walk back.
Spamton: seemingly one of the only characters that seem to make kris frightened. And the most ominous thing about it is when ralsei said that kris was yelling
Probably because Kris saw Spamton as a reflection of themselves: a puppet on a string being controlled by some higher power, and it shook them down to their very core.
The fact that we the player can’t see Kris reacting, but its painfully obvious through everyone’s dialogue that Kris is having a panic attack. That’s a sign of good writing.
@@catbatrat1760 I've had plenty of panic attacks. Usually I just wind up shaky and try to avoid talking to people because I feel like I'm either angry for no apparent reason and my body moves faster from adrenaline. And then when it wears off, I feel like taking a week-long nap. That's the one thing that couldn't be translated in Kris's actions
@@catbatrat1760 It depends from person to person, for me they feel like I'm about to get a heart attack or stroke (half of body/jaw/hands going numb) which makes the entire thing worse. Some people go through a near catatonic stage where they're expressionless and don't respond to outside interaction.
I saw a theory by someone else on. Another video that said that the red soul inside Kris isn’t their soul, but the players. This would explain why their yes comes out as strained, they want to say no but the player is forcing them to say yes. The same is true for the reason they yell no. It’s because they want to say no so badly it comes out as a no.
Your right about the soul being the player because in the secret route it's basically confirmed. It's in spoiler territory so I recommend you checking the secret route final boss for yourself.
Wait the thing with the screaming makes so much sense. I read another comment that said THE reason was because seeing Spamton be freed from his strings was so infuriating for the real Kris. But this with compared to the strained yes makes much more sense.
I love how after the battle, Kris has actual emotion, not just straight face, not shown on their sprite, but actual fear ( I assume) then their friends comforting them if they say no, especially Susie, getting Kris to smile, and being happy with that, really good character development from this fight.
The pacifist ending is so unsettling. You expect nothing out of the ordinary to happen when you cut the wire. But everything just cuts and Spamton just lies on the ground. Nothing else. Nothing but Spamton
Exactly. He's so happy, and he just... dies. He waited so long for freedom, only to fall from the wires, get stuck in vines, and become an item, therefore never being truly free. Holy [hyperlink blocked] this moment hurt.
I find it very interesting that Ralsei was insistent on brushing it off afterwards- 15:00 It seems like it was just a corrupted program. He turned into our ally, so let's just accept it. Maybe I'm just too suspcious of Ralsei right now, but he... he KNOWS that he's holding back information.
@@sacredstars2618 Brushing off Jevil was fine since I don't think they really mention it afterwards, right? But Susie of all monsters brings it up and Ralsei pushes to ignore it. I do love Ralsei, but he definitely knows things he has no intention of letting everyone else in on. Although yeah I agree castle town probably has some otherworldly properties connecting everything
I wonder if all the references to being controlled (frustration at not being free & hatred of his “strings”) are in anyway connected to Kris and the way the player controls them. That’s why they’re so upset at the end
I'm certain that it is, cuz as we see Kris removes the soul and can stagger around while we the player cannot follow, most likely meaning that at the end of the fight Kris realizes that there might not be anyway to gain true freedom from us.
@@CodenameFives maybe maybe at the final chapter we might get our own body ya know the one The person discarded from us in chapter 1 and putting us in kris body..
@@CodenameFives what if Kris body is actually being possesed by something else also using it as a puppet, and to prevent us to claim back control takes the human soul out? because most of the times this happens Kris is either super sleepy, tired or just sleep, not aware of what he is doing, idk why people dont notice this and thinks is just Kris being edgy, when he is clearly being possesed by something. if this is like Undertale Soul, our choices can make Kris be fully possessed by this evil, or be free from this evil, what if its refering he is being used as a puppet, but by this evil force who is making him create a fountain as shown in the end of this chapter? think about it.
@@SettMetabolik you make a valid point, it could even lead into the other controller being Gaster possibly, however I still think that the fountains and everything else out of our control is Kris's own choices due the how Kris acts after the spamton fight, though your point could make a great twist for the story.
God I just beat his fight in Pacifist and 13:31 still gets me. I was actually happy that Spamton was happy and realizing that he has friends and when the music just stopped, and we see him drop on the floor practically dead...I almost cried. I should have known things wouldn't end well for him considering he was a hidden boss like Jevil, but my dumbass completely forgot and that shit really got me. He doesn't even become a recruit... EDIT (3/27/22): It's been a good while, I'm not saddened by the outcome anymore. Replays and posts pointing out stuff I missed made me realize the little scrunkly guy is a-okay. Thanks for y'all who tried to cheer me up though. :)
if Spamton tries to "join" your party as items but your inventory is full, he just complains with Kris and says he will go to his [trailer], almost as if he didn't really die, just... Became items
Pretty much. Kris and Susie were the first people he ever interacted with, so this kind of thing is all new to him and he's treading as lightly as possible, trying to help Kris without making it worse.
His reaction is similar to how I react to other people being like that. As a neurodivergent person, I tend to be clueless on how to comfort other people, so it can come out the same way. So perhaps some amount of the "evidence" towards Ralsei being evil is a misunderstanding and Ralsei is just autistic coded?
Nah he's right, Ralsei is fucking sus. They know so much information they shouldn't know and we know next to nothing about them. Who told them about the Legend? What does it mean to be the Prince of the Dark? Why are they so much like Asriel? Why are they so much like a Lightner and yet, are somehow a Darkner? And we know Kris does actually like butterscotch pie, so he's right, how do they know that? And Ralsei is intentionally trying to get the other two party members to ignore the things Spamton ranted about. I wouldn't be shocked if Ralsei was fucking evil honestly.
@@KorporalKReephdmkiytrecv69 or maybe he is actually Asriel trapped in the Dark World instead of being in college as everyone think, and got his memories erased... idk, but he definitely sus
Ralsei seems too eager to move on from this. Susie is shocked, Kris is having a breakdown, and Ralsei is just like "welp! It is what it is!" after that entire shitshow
Someone mentioned this before but they said that ralsei doesn't know what to do since he didn't have any friends at all before so it just might be his first time comforting someone but I might be wrong
If a friend of mine just went through an experience that was clearly traumatizing for them, you bet your ass I'mma try and get them far, FAR away from that experience.
...Has NOBODY yet mentioned Spamton's continuous mentionings of H E A V E N and A N G E L S, the TWO THINGS that Ralsei warned us about in the Legend from Chapter 1??? (edit: I feel like this is cheesy, but I think 1k likes warrants a "Thank you for all the likes") (So yeah, thanks for all the likes)
13:20 "ARE YOU WATCHING, HEAVEN?" 1:28 "STAND UP WITH OUR HEADS IN THE CLOUDS AND LOOK INTO *H E A V E N* NO other character has put this much emphasis on HEAVEN, or SOULS as much as Spamton has. Hell, Heaven was been entirely avoided as a word UNTIL Spamton! (And Ralsei in Chapter 1)
"Spamton turns to the audience and laughs" "Spamton appeals to the audience with a special jig!" "Spamton begs to the audience, Spamton prays to the audience" "There is no audience"
This part is also sad to me because one part says spamton begs the audience to stop taking the furniture out of his room. cause the last time he had an audience, they were taking everything that he had.
That’s the point tho? Spamton wants to take Kris’ soul, not only for his own reasons, but because Mr. Big Shot sympathizes with Kris’ situation (being controlled by us, the player, against his will.)
16:40 something to think about: at the beginning the chapter 2, if you inspect the computer in Kris' room, it says that there was a game folder containing poorly-drawn designs for a game with the last boss containing a creature with giant rainbow wings. Spamton Neo had a poorly drawn robot suit with rainbow wings. it's said the robot was the embodiment of a lightner's dream and left abandoned when nothing came of it. Perhaps the lightner is Kris or Asriel who made this robot.
It's scary just how Kris just had a panic attack after the fight with spamton. These two are so similar, that it's genuinely horrifying. Both are just puppets for something or someone. We don't know whos controlling spamton but we know who's controlling Kris. Us, the player. Kris cutting the last string by himself and without our command, hoping that spamton can be free from his strings and live his life (something Kris also wants), only to see spamton just drop dead. Seeing that, Kris has every reason to have a panic attack, that feeling of overwhelming sense of existential dread of being just our puppet forever, to never be truly be free again, and seeing what fate will also await Kris if he does cut his own strings. God, Toby, only you can make us feel bad for controlling the main character of a game. Imagine waking up one day, only to be controlled by an unforeseen entity, forced to do and say what that entity wants. It's genuinely scary.
@@mechamedegeorge6786 Toby has been trying to tell the message of "The main character doesn't choose their own actions, YOU do" since Undertale, I don't think a soul without any body could be a character.
i know spamton isn't like *dead* dead since he sort of joins the party as an item like jevil. but the bit where he's so excited to be free before you cut the wire and he drops to the ground completely silent is so unsettling. and depressing too. he just wanted to be free, in the end.
Is everyone just accepting that Ralsei can just break the one rule that even Kris has to obey - being, staying on the mf path in 15:11? I think thats the reason Kris is shook - I was too.
I feel bad for spamton. Hes so happy to finally be free from his strings and have friends only to drop dead. But he might have escaped some of his strings beacuse unless your inventory is full, he wont use [epic icons for half half price] and stuff in his text, meaning he might be less corrupted! Good for you, spamton!
I have a feeling that the "strings" are just wires that power the suit, and with all of them cut off he "dies" because the suit he's using as a vessel is no longer being supplied with electricity, and so it can no longer function. He sees them as "restraining strings" because of his insanity. Remember how the Queen's suit also runs out of power at the end of the chapter?
@@ragnareikrem3197 Not necessarily a theory, I'd rather call it common sense. Even the game itself refers to them as wires half the time, actually I'm not sure if I remember it correctly but the 'snap wire' text and other flavour text in the battle refers to them as wires while only Spamton himself refers to them as strings, but I don't remember it exactly so please correct me if I'm wrong.
when he ask if kris wants to be a "heart on a chain" and his whole stealing your soul thing, does he just assume kris is the soul? it would be funny to see an alternate scenario play out where we just end up controlling spamton lol
I'm like 90% sure it's because while the chapter 1 secret boss was designed for the fact chapter 1 is basically a demo, spamton is designed to be the first of 6 more secret bosses in the full game. So spamton is less meant to be "hard" just "the hardest in the area"
Really? For me, most of Jevil's attacks are easy to avoid if you know where to go. Chaos bomb and the spinning scythes being the most dangerous. As for his Final Chaos, it can't kill your party even if you are low HP and purposely get hit several times by every attack. If you are efficient and can avoid healing for many rounds, then he can be beat before chaos bomb and final chaos. I thought Spamton was way harder, took many try and a night of rest to finally beat him. I just can't get a read on the Eyes/Nose/Mouth attacks all at once, as well as the attack with the 2 phones shooting from top and bottom.
@@alexandrepilon4328 for me, Jevil's fight is harder, as his attacks feel much more chaotic, and he only has about 3 or 4 attacks that are relatively ok to avoid. Spamton NEO I feel has more easy attacks than that, specially the ones with his heart thing. There's also the fact that you can only do the ACT that makes Jevil tired when all three members are alive, while with Spamton NEO you can cut wires even when not all members are alive. Then again, Deltarune chapter 1 was the first of Toby's games I actually played, so maybe that's why it was harder for me.
I'm so interested Kris's response to Spamton after the fight. The idea that our protag has what might be a panic attack over an existential crisis is horrifiying and fascinating at the same time, especially since all we get comes from outside of Kris's internal viewpoint.
@@isimyok960Sans tried to be free too. Rooting for Us/Frisk, (Convince they/Us in the best terms to be good). And fight to stop us in the worst scenario. Those three are faces of the same problem. *Sans/jevil/spantom: -Someone once told me, that Time is a flat circle.
It's really interesting to see a bit of the real Kris come out after the neo fight. And i'm wondering if its because Kris relates to Spamton. And if Kris is scared of what will happen if they permanently keep us out of their body
I really like the idea of giving every chapter a secret character that had some direct connection to Gaster. While I hope that at the end of the game Gaster could make an actuall appearance in front of the player, I wouldn't bet on it too hard.
I mean, I could see it, idealistic as that may be. This game is hinting HARD at the existence of Gaster, to the point where I can almost see him more as a Deltarune character than anything else.
Notice how when you get closer to the end of the fight, it says “the stage lights are shattered” but in undertale genocide, when you fight mettaton NEO it says “stage lights are blaring”. And while that sounds like an obvious reason as to how spamton gains the power of NEO for himself, you gotta credit the neat little call back all the way from the genocide route.
@@thewall4069 Funny enough that’s not even the most obscure detail. There’s check text saying Spamton Neo is his own worst invention and undertale calls Mettaton Neo Alphy’s greatest. It’s so obscure because you need to check twice to see it which nobody would ever do unless by accident.
I smiled when Susie said "Too late, already imagining you guys as idiot-scented candles." Gotta say I was kinda freaked out when she said that made Kris smile.
Jevil and Spamton. One lived the other. Died I think? Both talked to by the man in hands. He probably stopped helping Spamton probably because of personal problems or something else entirely. And he was talking to him again but Spamton left, Gaster still stayed on the line thinking where his friend went.
Yes, of course, stay that positive, spamton wasnt a friend to gaster, spamton, as jevil, was a PUPPET, dont you see it in his neo form? He has STRINGS, in the store he just... starts to glitch and a text, a NORMAL text asks us for help, if we can hear him, that is spamton, the TRUE one, jevil had luck, he only went insane, but spamton turned into a shell of himself, controlled but whatever force
Was it Gaster, though? I assumed the one helping Spamton was “Mike”. He certainly _reacted_ to saying the name like someone who’d had the rug pulled out from under them.
There's so much to talk about with this fight alone. There's a lot of themes of freedom and someone being controlled by some outside force, but the thing that gets me is why the power of Neo is so important. Where did Neo come from if we could only see it in the No Mercy route of Undertale? I know it was probably confirmed before, but this makes it look like both endings to Undertale are canon. What if this world of Deltarune we are doing what Chara said? To move onto the next world but Kris refuses? Also, is the Neo EX a reference to a mod of mettaton Neo fight? God, I love this game
Seeing Spamton happy made me happy too, he was finally going to be free... or so I thought. He just fell like that on the ground, continued with absolute silence. It was shocking, in a sad way
I didn't play it myself but watched a pacifist let's play and when I tell y'all that I was trying my hardest to not cry when he dropped onto the ground, I ain't lying. Truly a great character with a great boss fight.
can I just say I absolutely adored this boss fight? I loved it because it A. blended lighmotifs from three other bossfights witch are among my favorite video game experiences ever (yes, even MTT Neo) so that had a coolness and nostalgia. and B. the bossfight is the most enjoyable of the fights in chap 2, mainly because of the characters aesthetic and music that characterizes it perfectly. Also i thought the jevil fight was sick and its kind of similar.
19:02 "garbage noise" that's entry 17 also mentioned as "garbage noise" when you call home in this world spamton definitely has a connection with gaster
Glad I saw the other dialog options. I know I walked away from that boss fight feeling not ok personally. Susie said it best, it really WAS god damn weird. "Kris you ok?" Ya know what? No, no I'm not. There was a lot there and we're just leaving! Just... No! "Kris... You're yelling" Good!
Btw, there is another variant of this boss fight if you try the Snowgrave route, Deltarune's version of genocide route where you force Noelle to freeze everyone to death.
‘Mike’ is definitely a character that is gonna appear in the next chapter. It looks like it’ll be TV themed and every time he’s brought up it’s with mentions of TV [‘Mike’s a criminal, don’t believe what you see on TV’ and ‘Are you GETTING THIS, Mike?’]
13:36 Ha! I noticed a detail! Whenever Spamton isn't under control anymore, except before he dies, he takes that face. Completely blank and black and white. And since that's when he immediately broke from his strings, that may be what he looked like before.
On a different note, this made me realise something Will fighting certain secret bosses and skipping others affect your gameplay? Since the secret bosses do happen to seem to be SECRETLY (ironicly) connected If we skip the mentions about jevil it is very likely that Mike is the secret boss for the next chapter or one of the main bosses And will """freeing"""" spamton or at least show his tool to what we assume will be mike in the next chapter?
First Jevil, now Spamton. Seems like secret bosses that are super hard are going to be a reoccurring thing in Deltarune Chapters. Edit: at 3:34 you can also hear a slight bit of Jevil’s theme in there. Edit 2: just realized they are also both insane people.
I read something that said that the leitmotif at 3:34 more than a Jevil leitmotif will be a "freedom" leitmotif that all secret bosses will have. Both Jevil and Spamton have themes of being free and in control in their fights, so it would make sense that the secret bosses going forward will have something similar
I've just realized that at one point of spamton neo's theme a fragment of jevil's theme is also been played so my theory is that the person spamton spoke to might be the same that jevil spoke with that day The fragment starts been played at 5:54
Random thought, there are most likely gonna be seven secret bosses, and I just remembered that there are seven different soul colors. Spamton seems to have a lot of yellow going on, which symbolizes justice. Jevil’s area is all dark blue, which symbolizes integrity. I wonder if that means we’ll be seeing all the other colors. Probably just overthinking it though
I say you're underthinking it. Spamton Neo blares out so many parallels to Metaton Neo you'd be a fool to ignore them. There's a running theory that the normal chapter bosses will all be foils to undertale's normal run bosses, and the superbosses will be foils to the genocide run bosses.
@@MrSailing101 you know what? that's a good theory! jevil is a foil to sans, with both of them knowing their worlds are/have aspects of games. spamton is mettaton neo, who both want their dream so badly?
Ralsei is the bestest of best fluffy bois, but you can't deny he's acting sus. 1) He walks on air. What. 2) He seems to want to ignore everything that happened in the fight. Hmm... 3) I don't think Kris every told Ralsei which pie flavour they preferred. 4) He walks with his hands behind his back, which is usually a sign of something suspicious. Might be a stretch tho. :\ 5) Why doesn't Ralsei turn into stone when he goes into this world? Lancer did. I'm probably just being dumb and not understanding the lore, so you guys please correct me if I'm wrong. :D 6) He somehow knows Kris's school layout. 6) Overall, he just seems to know too much. Maybe he's connected to Gaster in some way? Does he know who Gaster is? Is he some kind of fourth wall breaking character? Wow, this one boss fight (and the Jevil one) really gave the theorists a field day, huh? But he did hug us, so all is forgiven :)
1) I think this was done by lancer also at some point but could be wrong 2) he is avoiding stuff yes, but he is telling Kris not susie 3 and 4) not sure how to answer these 5) ralsei exist in the dark world. Lancer and rouxls are playing cards, heck most of them are toys which is why ralsei whispers to you to go get them, he is trying to not tell susie, is it suspicious yeah it is 6) that can be explained easily. When the lights are off the dark world exist. We can clearly see that every "dark world" is just a room in a place. So it could be that when the school lights are off the whole school becomes a dark world
Yeah, he’s definitely hiding something. However, if you don’t mind, I would like to say something about some of these points: About 1) I think that’s just a animation mistake (Sorry, I couldn’t tell if you were joking or not, so it was just in case it wasn’t); About 3) He was just throwing around cake flavors (He’s not even mentioning Pie flavors in the first place), meaning he didn’t know which one was their favorite. He just happened to suggest the Butterscotch flavor in the middle of the others: “Kris, I’ll make some cake for you later, ok?”, “I could even make it chocolate-flavored.”, “Butterscotch, cinnamon… whatever you want.”; About 4) Yeah, that’s a stretch. Putting your hands behind your back doesn’t really mean anything. It’s just his new stance/sprite. I mean, a lot of people and characters walk like that, just saying. About 5) When Lancer turned into stone, after explaining why that happened (If a Darkner moves to a Dark World different from their own, they might not “belong” and turn into stone), Ralsei said that Castle Town’s Dark Fountain is made of Pure Darkness, meaning any Darkner can live there. We’ve seen that that is definitely true (Whenever we come back to Castle Town) and since Ralsei came from that Fountain, the one made of Pure Darkness, I think that explains why he is fine when he moves to another Dark World. About 6) Yeah, it’s definitely odd that he knows the school layout. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that Queen also knows about the Library somehow. About 7) Not saying your theory is wrong, I just wanted say that we don’t know if this influencer (of JEVIL and Spamton) is really Gaster since this is an AU (Alternate Universe) and the garbage noise doesn’t necessarily mean it’s him since that noise might not really be exclusive to Gaster. For this reason, I prefer to call them by a different name. I call them: The Entity. I just think it’s better to call them by this name since we don’t know who or what they are. Now, 2 and 6 are the points that I would consider suspicious. He definitely seems to know something about Spamton or what happened to him or maybe something about the SOUL because he was very clearly bothered despite saying he doesn’t think it meant anything, at least judging from his sprites. He did definitely worry about Kris because after he noticed Kris was bothered he went to try to calm him down and comfort him the best he could. I’ve seen some people say that he didn’t care about Kris in this scene because he only did something after Susie notices the goosebumps, but people seem to ignore the fact that: 1. He had his back turned to Kris because he was talking to Susie so of course he didn’t notice immediately (Neither did Susie, but since she was facing both of them, of course she noticed); 2. He immediately went to comfort him the moment he noticed Kris wasn’t well, like when he yelled out “No” (And because when Susie went to talk to Kris, he could have only shown that he noticed after Kris either said “Yes” or “No”; 3. If you hugged him when you were to pose for a picture at the end of the Acid Pool Boat Ride, he will hug you here to calm you down and then when Susie leaves after both of them had that cute exchange about hugs, he says: “I think everything will be ok, Kris.” and Kris (along with Ralsei, both) walk(s) out of there on their own. So yeah, Ralsei is hiding something (From Kris, and the Player), but I don’t think he is doing that maliciously or for evil purposes or anything like that. Maybe he has good intentions and reasons to hide this stuff because maybe he fears what might be done with that information? In any case, I think he is still very nice even if he’s a bit secretive, but maybe he has good reasons to act this way. I think he is still, as you put it, the Bestest of Best Fluffy Boys (Not that I ever thought he wasn’t, mind you). :)
Yeah, he’s definitely hiding something. However, if you don’t mind, I would like to say something about some of these points: About 1) I think that’s just a animation mistake (Sorry, I couldn’t tell if you were joking or not, so it was just in case it wasn’t); About 3) He was just throwing around cake flavors (He’s not even mentioning Pie flavors in the first place), meaning he didn’t know which one was their favorite. He just happened to suggest the Butterscotch flavor in the middle of the others: “Kris, I’ll make some cake for you later, ok?”, “I could even make it chocolate-flavored.”, “Butterscotch, cinnamon… whatever you want.”; About 4) Yeah, that’s a stretch. Putting your hands behind your back doesn’t really mean anything. It’s just his new stance/sprite. I mean, a lot of people and characters walk like that, just saying. About 5) When Lancer turned into stone, after explaining why that happened (If a Darkner moves to a Dark World different from their own, they might not “belong” and turn into stone), Ralsei said that Castle Town’s Dark Fountain is made of Pure Darkness, meaning any Darkner can live there. We’ve seen that that is definitely true (Whenever we come back to Castle Town) and since Ralsei came from that Fountain, the one made of Pure Darkness, I think that explains why he is fine when he moves to another Dark World. About 6) Yeah, it’s definitely odd that he knows the school layout. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that Queen also knows about the Library somehow. About 7) Not saying your theory is wrong, I just wanted say that we don’t know if this influencer (of JEVIL and Spamton) is really Gaster since this is an AU (Alternate Universe) and the garbage noise doesn’t necessarily mean it’s him since that noise might not really be exclusive to Gaster. For this reason, I prefer to call them by a different name. I call them: The Entity. I just think it’s better to call them by this name since we don’t know who or what they are. Now, 2 and 6 are the points that I would consider suspicious. He definitely seems to know something about Spamton or what happened to him or maybe something about the SOUL because he was very clearly bothered despite saying he doesn’t think it meant anything, at least judging from his sprites. He did definitely worry about Kris because after he noticed Kris was bothered he went to try to calm him down and comfort him the best he could. I’ve seen some people say that he didn’t care about Kris in this scene because he only did something after Susie notices the goosebumps, but people seem to ignore the fact that: 1. He had his back turned to Kris because he was talking to Susie so of course he didn’t notice immediately (Neither did Susie, but since she was facing both of them, of course she noticed); 2. He immediately went to comfort him the moment he noticed Kris wasn’t well, like when he yelled out “No” (And because when Susie went to talk to Kris, he could have only shown that he noticed after Kris either said “Yes” or “No”; 3. If you hugged him when you were to pose for a picture at the end of the Acid Pool Boat Ride, he will hug you here to calm you down and then when Susie leaves after both of them had that cute exchange about hugs, he says: “I think everything will be ok, Kris.” and Kris (along with Ralsei, both) walk(s) out of there on their own. So yeah, Ralsei is hiding something (From Kris, and the Player), but I don’t think he is doing that maliciously or for evil purposes or anything like that. Maybe he has good intentions and reasons to hide this stuff because maybe he fears what might be done with that information? In any case, I think he is still very nice even if he’s a bit secretive, but maybe he has good reasons to act this way. I think he is still, as you put it, the Bestest of Best Fluffy Boys (Not that I ever thought he wasn’t, mind you). :)
@@gadjetjr.7528 Thank you for replying! I agree that most of these points have some explanation behind them, I just listed them in case. However, I feel like the bscotch/cinnamon cake flavour choice is still quite sus. In Undertale, Toriel asked you to chose between bscotch and cinnamon pie, so isn't it interesting that Ralsei would list the two exact same options? It could be just a funny joke that Toby Fox made (Haha look here's a reference to Undertale!), though, and probably wouldn't mean anything important.
Man, poor Kris. This sequence is definitely my favorite in the game. Very ominous and creepy, too. Even just the environment is strange: it's industrial and has plantlife, not at all like the rest of he Cyber World. Kris being so obviously disturbed and panicking at the end is heartbreaking. At least they have two really good friends by their side, who came looking for them and comforted them afterwards. I hope that we can set them free during Chapter 7.
He reminds me of those fill-in-the-blank books where you write down random nouns and verbs in the blanks so it could say like "The pizza is (purple) and the fries are (slimy)"
To see Spamton reduced to a stringless automaton in front of Kris is definitely one of the greatest moments in the game. Kris’ reaction (per Kris’ friends) is a huge indicator of the character development in this game
I don't like Ralsei's attitude about this. This was clearly disturbing to Kris and instead of letting them process what happened he tells them to bottle it up and think about nice things :/ toxic positivity is such a red flag
True, but he probably just doesn't know what to do. I have a lot of trouble knowing how to comfort people when they're distressed. I don't think he's acting maliciously here, just out of ignorance.
I noticed something. Kris seems to snap after the Spamton fight regardless of wether you destroy him or cut his wires. Kris doesn't freak out exclusively after Spamton becomes helpless when his strings are cut, they also freak out after Spamton explodes trying to evolve into his next form. Isn't that kind of a weird detail, that Kris is deeply unsettled by Spamton wether or not it's revealed that Spamton is nothing without his wires?
I mean would you not be unsettled by that whole thing? Even Susie was clearly Not Happy with what just happened. Ralsei was the only one who seemed willing to ignore it...
Thats mainly because both outcomes still tell Kris "You cant break your strings", becoming stronger like Spamton Neo turning on his EX mode only delays the inevitable truth (or even speeds it up in his case), while cutting said strings can kill you.
People are saying Pacifist Spamton is the darkest, but have you noticed how Spamton never wanted to give you anything in the Snowgrave route? *You* took the Puppetscarf from his body, right after Noelle froze him.
A theory I really like is that Kris' soul isn't actually Kris', its the player's soul. Kris himself is his own person with his own thoughts and feelings, and the soul in him is controlling him and forcing him to do and say things he doesnt want to do. Thats why Kris gets so freaked out after the fight with Spamton, because the same way Spamton was just a puppet on strings, Kris feels the same way about himself. Spamton dying after removing his strings really freaked out Kris, and he might be afraid that by removing his own strings, a.k.a his soul, that he himself might suffer the same fate. Thats why everytime he removes the soul in the endings, he always walks slowly and like he's in pain.
It was 3 AM on release day when it happened, so maybe my memory is failing, but it seems like I never got the dialog with the yes or no question after the first time I did the fight. I guess my game's bugged? I did it again on a new file tonight and it was the first time I saw it, it really stuck out to me. I did it like three times in a row just to make sure I didn't miss any dialog. Also it looks like Ralsei won't hug Kris unless you've done the swan ride part. weird!
i played it a few weeks after release and i don't remember getting this either. the only idea i have for why i didn't get it is that i didn't fight Spamton on my first run and went back to a save point after beating the game to fight him, that or it's bugged. i'm not sure.
@@grfrjiglstan imagine if Toby is just a next level troll and put all this stuff about "a lightner's dream" not coming to fruition as an in joke about Mettaton NEO never having the ability to attack
The decayed robot's hair kinda looks like mettaton's hair Maybe the decayed robot was mettaton neo so when you insert spamton's disk in it it became spamton neo
When I fought Spamton, at the end, when Susie asked if Kris was okay, I said no on purpose. I was basically thinking that Kris wanted to say no, but still, they don’t have any control on their actions, on their words. I answered what Kris wanted to answer, and apparently I was right. The fact that they’re yelling the reply « no » is confirming that they’re at the player’s mercy. Spamton also says that they can break their own strings, and Kris for sure was concerned about this.
God, Ralsei is _so_ suspicious in that scene if you say Yes. Even if you say no he's pretty sus, but... holy shit. How did he know to offer cinnamon and butterscotch?
I didn't even finish the video so I don't I know if/how they are related but Spamton Neo has a uh moment that is Jevil's music, idk how to phrase that but they have the same theme, around 3:44
The thing that's sad is like jevil, spamton knows he's just a character in a game, but unlike jevil who realized nothing matters anyways and causing chaos spamton tried to make himself part of you, even forcing you into a fight in the alley, but yet he couldn't succeed
Oh God! What's up with Toby Fox giving these secret bosses such badass theme songs?! 🤘🎶 First Sans, then Jevil, and now Spamton! What's, or who's next?? 🤩
Spamton NEO Snowgrave/Weird Route Fight
ruclips.net/video/2DPkH1QyDH8/видео.html&
T
T
@@megalucario124 Games
[[BIG-SHOT]]!!!?!?!?
@@megalucario124p
the pacifist one just made me so sad. he was so happy, he was going to be free, I didn't wanna cut the last wire, and see him fall. but I did. still gives me chills thinking about the walk back.
I thought the wire snapped because of his movements.
It was kinda sad on the walk back on pacifist one. And worse, spamton died.
Meh
@@luisapaza317 yeh
@@dr.happyfuntimes1214 you can see the blue slash
Spamton: seemingly one of the only characters that seem to make kris frightened.
And the most ominous thing about it is when ralsei said that kris was yelling
I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that
Probably because Kris saw Spamton as a reflection of themselves: a puppet on a string being controlled by some higher power, and it shook them down to their very core.
@@AstralMuffin105 that's quite terrifying
@@AstralMuffin105 chapter 1 Ending got Kris feeling like:
@@AstralMuffin105 77 likes
nice
The fact that we the player can’t see Kris reacting, but its painfully obvious through everyone’s dialogue that Kris is having a panic attack. That’s a sign of good writing.
Would it be considered a panic attack? (Genuine question since I don't know exactly how panic attacks work)
@@catbatrat1760 Yes. People with panic attacks are reported to be unresponsive, shake, cry, and/or scream.
@@catbatrat1760 I've had plenty of panic attacks. Usually I just wind up shaky and try to avoid talking to people because I feel like I'm either angry for no apparent reason and my body moves faster from adrenaline. And then when it wears off, I feel like taking a week-long nap. That's the one thing that couldn't be translated in Kris's actions
@@catbatrat1760
It depends from person to person, for me they feel like I'm about to get a heart attack or stroke (half of body/jaw/hands going numb) which makes the entire thing worse.
Some people go through a near catatonic stage where they're expressionless and don't respond to outside interaction.
I didnt have time to watch the full video, could you tell me the timestap this was implied???
I saw a theory by someone else on. Another video that said that the red soul inside Kris isn’t their soul, but the players. This would explain why their yes comes out as strained, they want to say no but the player is forcing them to say yes. The same is true for the reason they yell no. It’s because they want to say no so badly it comes out as a no.
Your right about the soul being the player because in the secret route it's basically confirmed. It's in spoiler territory so I recommend you checking the secret route final boss for yourself.
@@ultraz9319 *You‘re
@@ultraz9319 could you please link it for me?
@Alex is gonna Commit Arson ruclips.net/video/guuxtZpDX2g/видео.html
Wait the thing with the screaming makes so much sense. I read another comment that said THE reason was because seeing Spamton be freed from his strings was so infuriating for the real Kris. But this with compared to the strained yes makes much more sense.
I love how after the battle, Kris has actual emotion, not just straight face, not shown on their sprite, but actual fear ( I assume) then their friends comforting them if they say no, especially Susie, getting Kris to smile, and being happy with that, really good character development from this fight.
Kris is aware of their situation as someone sharing body with... "something" else, hence Spamton obsession with cutting his strings got to them
Kris's character development:😐😑😐
@@buntado6 Kris: "Oh shit he's talking about cutting strings. This player soul better not get any ideas of getting away from me..."
Kris uses they/them pronouns exclusively, according to Toby Fox.
@@kidpixdeluxe4 fixed, sorry, I kinda project a lil bit on them so I just see them as a he
The pacifist ending is so unsettling. You expect nothing out of the ordinary to happen when you cut the wire. But everything just cuts and Spamton just lies on the ground. Nothing else. Nothing but Spamton
Exactly. He's so happy, and he just... dies. He waited so long for freedom, only to fall from the wires, get stuck in vines, and become an item, therefore never being truly free. Holy [hyperlink blocked] this moment hurt.
Suddenly the mettaton neo “fight” makes sense. He went down in one hit not because of poor defense but because alphys forgot to charge the batteries.
@@changvasejarik62 what
I say this comment has to be a joke
*(edited)*
just spamton
@@CoraCreates *(edited)*
I find it very interesting that Ralsei was insistent on brushing it off afterwards- 15:00 It seems like it was just a corrupted program. He turned into our ally, so let's just accept it.
Maybe I'm just too suspcious of Ralsei right now, but he... he KNOWS that he's holding back information.
Yeah. Let's not forget that Ralsei just SOMEHOW ends up in the Cyber Dark World.
Ralsei knowing about the school and knowing where all the items from chapter 1 are and to bring them is beyond sus
It may be that the Dark Worlds are all connected in some way brushing off the boss seems fine to me since Jevil does the same
@@sacredstars2618 Brushing off Jevil was fine since I don't think they really mention it afterwards, right? But Susie of all monsters brings it up and Ralsei pushes to ignore it. I do love Ralsei, but he definitely knows things he has no intention of letting everyone else in on.
Although yeah I agree castle town probably has some otherworldly properties connecting everything
He probably knows about the Player or sumn
I wonder if all the references to being controlled (frustration at not being free & hatred of his “strings”) are in anyway connected to Kris and the way the player controls them. That’s why they’re so upset at the end
I'm certain that it is, cuz as we see Kris removes the soul and can stagger around while we the player cannot follow, most likely meaning that at the end of the fight Kris realizes that there might not be anyway to gain true freedom from us.
7:32 do you wanna be a heart on a chain your whole life?
@@CodenameFives maybe maybe at the final chapter we might get our own body ya know the one The person discarded from us in chapter 1 and putting us in kris body..
@@CodenameFives what if Kris body is actually being possesed by something else also using it as a puppet, and to prevent us to claim back control takes the human soul out? because most of the times this happens Kris is either super sleepy, tired or just sleep, not aware of what he is doing, idk why people dont notice this and thinks is just Kris being edgy, when he is clearly being possesed by something. if this is like Undertale Soul, our choices can make Kris be fully possessed by this evil, or be free from this evil, what if its refering he is being used as a puppet, but by this evil force who is making him create a fountain as shown in the end of this chapter? think about it.
@@SettMetabolik you make a valid point, it could even lead into the other controller being Gaster possibly, however I still think that the fountains and everything else out of our control is Kris's own choices due the how Kris acts after the spamton fight, though your point could make a great twist for the story.
the part where spamton neo answers his own phone and it blasting him with mini versions of his face just made me laugh a lot.
IT'S FOR ME?
@@_starrpark_1856 **SKADOOSH**
No matter the meaning, if there even is a meaning to that, it just looks stupid.
He's just getting [[!#$%]] pelted with his own face.
@@DesolateLavender I think it was just used as an excuse to give the player some breathing room to heal and stuff
@@VagueNaming Like Jevil's fake out tired
God I just beat his fight in Pacifist and 13:31 still gets me. I was actually happy that Spamton was happy and realizing that he has friends and when the music just stopped, and we see him drop on the floor practically dead...I almost cried. I should have known things wouldn't end well for him considering he was a hidden boss like Jevil, but my dumbass completely forgot and that shit really got me. He doesn't even become a recruit...
EDIT (3/27/22): It's been a good while, I'm not saddened by the outcome anymore. Replays and posts pointing out stuff I missed made me realize the little scrunkly guy is a-okay. Thanks for y'all who tried to cheer me up though. :)
Hey, I mean at least their legacies live on in the things they drop
You have the Jevilstail/Devilsknife from Jevil and the Dealmaker from Spamton
@@breadbug6101 but thats the catch, jevil DOESNT die, he talks to you after beating him, he just... stays there, thats all
if Spamton tries to "join" your party as items but your inventory is full, he just complains with Kris and says he will go to his [trailer], almost as if he didn't really die, just... Became items
@@ParanaenseOwO well I never got that every time I defeated him but damn
@@ParanaenseOwO Still in the end we don't see the hidden bosses in the town anymore, so once we leave that's the last time we'll see the guy.
Everyone says "it's like ralsei doesn't care" but I think its more of "he doesn't know what to do"
seriously he’s never had friends before
Pretty much. Kris and Susie were the first people he ever interacted with, so this kind of thing is all new to him and he's treading as lightly as possible, trying to help Kris without making it worse.
His reaction is similar to how I react to other people being like that. As a neurodivergent person, I tend to be clueless on how to comfort other people, so it can come out the same way. So perhaps some amount of the "evidence" towards Ralsei being evil is a misunderstanding and Ralsei is just autistic coded?
I think that Ralsei noticed Kris was freaked out and wanted to drop the subject
@@avacadotoast5571 that's a good theory
12:16 If I recall correctly, Kris never told Ralsei he liked bscotch pie, further adding to Ralsei's sus level.
I think he’s just tossing it out there. Plus its possible he can just smell pie on his breath since the night before Kris Ate a whole
Pie
I think its a reference to Toriel's, "Do you want butterscotch or cinnamon pie?" she asks in Undertale.
Nah he's right, Ralsei is fucking sus. They know so much information they shouldn't know and we know next to nothing about them. Who told them about the Legend? What does it mean to be the Prince of the Dark? Why are they so much like Asriel? Why are they so much like a Lightner and yet, are somehow a Darkner? And we know Kris does actually like butterscotch pie, so he's right, how do they know that? And Ralsei is intentionally trying to get the other two party members to ignore the things Spamton ranted about. I wouldn't be shocked if Ralsei was fucking evil honestly.
@@kolbo2001 or, he could be asriel and he discovered the dark world before anyone else?
@@KorporalKReephdmkiytrecv69 or maybe he is actually Asriel trapped in the Dark World instead of being in college as everyone think, and got his memories erased... idk, but he definitely sus
Ralsei seems too eager to move on from this. Susie is shocked, Kris is having a breakdown, and Ralsei is just like "welp! It is what it is!" after that entire shitshow
Someone mentioned this before but they said that ralsei doesn't know what to do since he didn't have any friends at all before so it just might be his first time comforting someone but I might be wrong
No character that likable and cute can be trusted.
@@NeonVoxel Yeah Ralsei is suspicious
If a friend of mine just went through an experience that was clearly traumatizing for them, you bet your ass I'mma try and get them far, FAR away from that experience.
@@rlfpotatoking9253 ralsei probably just didn’t know what to do and just came up with something
...Has NOBODY yet mentioned Spamton's continuous mentionings of H E A V E N and A N G E L S, the TWO THINGS that Ralsei warned us about in the Legend from Chapter 1???
(edit: I feel like this is cheesy, but I think 1k likes warrants a "Thank you for all the likes")
(So yeah, thanks for all the likes)
13:20 "ARE YOU WATCHING, HEAVEN?"
1:28 "STAND UP WITH OUR HEADS IN THE CLOUDS AND LOOK INTO *H E A V E N*
NO other character has put this much emphasis on HEAVEN, or SOULS as much as Spamton has. Hell, Heaven was been entirely avoided as a word UNTIL Spamton! (And Ralsei in Chapter 1)
@@KynG5 in the "other" route... Spamton just directly calls Noel "Angel" twice.
@@SenatorMailman beware of Noelle... got it.
gotta replay the first chapter
@@HouseMDLover69 so Noelle is specifically more important than just this chapter.. hoo boi
"Spamton turns to the audience and laughs"
"Spamton appeals to the audience with a special jig!"
"Spamton begs to the audience, Spamton prays to the audience"
"There is no audience"
What schizophrenia does to a mf
"But nobody came"
dun dun dun....
That was probably one of the most unsettling parts of the fight for me
This part is also sad to me because one part says spamton begs the audience to stop taking the furniture out of his room. cause the last time he had an audience, they were taking everything that he had.
“Kris, Take the deal.”
“Do you want to be a heart on a chain your whole life?”
Kris: This a sick joke?
Kris isn’t the soul.
That’s the point tho? Spamton wants to take Kris’ soul, not only for his own reasons, but because Mr. Big Shot sympathizes with Kris’ situation (being controlled by us, the player, against his will.)
@@halloween5440 But it refers to you as “Kris”
@@EVDVGames it mighy be like how Spamton can't go on without his "strings"
@@selimyucel741 I know!
*(edited)*
I'm super happy you did extra footage showing the results of multiple dialogue options! Thanks for uploading!
16:40 something to think about: at the beginning the chapter 2, if you inspect the computer in Kris' room, it says that there was a game folder containing poorly-drawn designs for a game with the last boss containing a creature with giant rainbow wings.
Spamton Neo had a poorly drawn robot suit with rainbow wings. it's said the robot was the embodiment of a lightner's dream and left abandoned when nothing came of it. Perhaps the lightner is Kris or Asriel who made this robot.
Pretty sure it was just referring to the Asriel fight in Undertale.
Mettaton the unpopular ghost made this robot, obviously
@@1982pokemon Thats the first thought that comes to mind, but thats almost never whats intended for Deltarune and Undertale lore.
@@ragnareikrem3197 it's probably the other thing, looks like asriel really just had to do that for spamton huh.. No [Heaven] for that guy.
@@1982pokemon Or both.
It's scary just how Kris just had a panic attack after the fight with spamton. These two are so similar, that it's genuinely horrifying. Both are just puppets for something or someone. We don't know whos controlling spamton but we know who's controlling Kris. Us, the player. Kris cutting the last string by himself and without our command, hoping that spamton can be free from his strings and live his life (something Kris also wants), only to see spamton just drop dead. Seeing that, Kris has every reason to have a panic attack, that feeling of overwhelming sense of existential dread of being just our puppet forever, to never be truly be free again, and seeing what fate will also await Kris if he does cut his own strings. God, Toby, only you can make us feel bad for controlling the main character of a game. Imagine waking up one day, only to be controlled by an unforeseen entity, forced to do and say what that entity wants. It's genuinely scary.
We dont know if we are literally a player though. The soul could very well be its own character
@@mechamedegeorge6786 Or just Chara
@@mechamedegeorge6786 Toby has been trying to tell the message of "The main character doesn't choose their own actions, YOU do" since Undertale, I don't think a soul without any body could be a character.
@@samlovescatsfr Thats actually just a interpretation of it from the fandom, not a fact
i know spamton isn't like *dead* dead since he sort of joins the party as an item like jevil. but the bit where he's so excited to be free before you cut the wire and he drops to the ground completely silent is so unsettling. and depressing too. he just wanted to be free, in the end.
He sort of is he doesn’t need to be worried about sales anymore as an item
If you also notice he doesn't just fall naturally. Someone in our party cut that wire, and I think it's green
@@the-annoyinator I saw it as blue I think either one of us is colour blind
@@MasterIsabelle Do you see Ralsei's clothing as blue?
No
Is everyone just accepting that Ralsei can just break the one rule that even Kris has to obey - being, staying on the mf path in 15:11?
I think thats the reason Kris is shook - I was too.
when your buff purple friend shoves you so hard you go out of bounds
it reminds me of that part in Undertale where Papyrus just walks on water for no reason
Deleted scene: Ralsei starts clipping through the floor
Wait- in chapter 1 lancer walks off the path when he 'joins your party' (i think thats when it happens its been 3 years so idk)
Ralsei is definitely hiding something
I feel bad for spamton. Hes so happy to finally be free from his strings and have friends only to drop dead.
But he might have escaped some of his strings beacuse unless your inventory is full, he wont use [epic icons for half half price] and stuff in his text, meaning he might be less corrupted! Good for you, spamton!
Wait. He has different dialogue if you don't have any inventory space?
As in, you never used an item through the whole fight?
That sly dog.
@@grfrjiglstan Just use heal prayer when you need healing, or you could use Susie and her unmatched ultimate healing!
I have a feeling that the "strings" are just wires that power the suit, and with all of them cut off he "dies" because the suit he's using as a vessel is no longer being supplied with electricity, and so it can no longer function. He sees them as "restraining strings" because of his insanity. Remember how the Queen's suit also runs out of power at the end of the chapter?
@@DogDogGodFog Great Theory!
@@ragnareikrem3197 Not necessarily a theory, I'd rather call it common sense. Even the game itself refers to them as wires half the time, actually I'm not sure if I remember it correctly but the 'snap wire' text and other flavour text in the battle refers to them as wires while only Spamton himself refers to them as strings, but I don't remember it exactly so please correct me if I'm wrong.
those seconds after spamton falls in the pacifist fight...wow, chilling.
good job!
"Heh.. That got Kris smiling."
Kris: 😐
*(edited)*
@@saucesaucesaucesauce1380 so?
This argument has been going since 2022
Poor Spamton. When he's back to reality and speaking normally he seems really nice.
true :(
If your inventory is full before collecting spamton's crystal and glasses, he would be mad and he still using his old way to speak when he's mad :v
My favorite part is when Spamton is like "WHAT!?!? ....IT'S FOR ME??" *(proceeds to get blasted by his own attack)*
How did that even happen? I chuckled a few times seeing him just get pelted with his own attack(s)
STOP HITTING MY FACE WITH MY FACE!
@@random-individual He might have gotten hit by the Pipis, which releases Spamton faces
when he ask if kris wants to be a "heart on a chain" and his whole stealing your soul thing, does he just assume kris is the soul? it would be funny to see an alternate scenario play out where we just end up controlling spamton lol
Love your Chito pfp dude
That's what I was thinking 😆 🤣 😂
I think its just referencing his next attack being, well, a heart on a chain
i think he knows kris is being controlled by the player somehow and wants to free them
@@echowoods7977 Kris is the heart, his soul is the chain.
13:38 Not sure if you've noticed, but apparently the one who cut the last string is Ralsei (from the green shaped hit).
Bruh wtf how did I not notice that?!
No, its Blue the strike, indicating Kris was the one who "set him free"
that was changing color.
That’s the same color as Kris’ attack if you hit spamton during the first fight
in my opinion this was easier than jevil by a big shot..
all jokes aside, i loved this boss battle
I'm like 90% sure it's because while the chapter 1 secret boss was designed for the fact chapter 1 is basically a demo, spamton is designed to be the first of 6 more secret bosses in the full game. So spamton is less meant to be "hard" just "the hardest in the area"
It also could have been easier with R and S action.
Really?
For me, most of Jevil's attacks are easy to avoid if you know where to go. Chaos bomb and the spinning scythes being the most dangerous. As for his Final Chaos, it can't kill your party even if you are low HP and purposely get hit several times by every attack.
If you are efficient and can avoid healing for many rounds, then he can be beat before chaos bomb and final chaos.
I thought Spamton was way harder, took many try and a night of rest to finally beat him.
I just can't get a read on the Eyes/Nose/Mouth attacks all at once, as well as the attack with the 2 phones shooting from top and bottom.
@@alexandrepilon4328 for me, Jevil's fight is harder, as his attacks feel much more chaotic, and he only has about 3 or 4 attacks that are relatively ok to avoid. Spamton NEO I feel has more easy attacks than that, specially the ones with his heart thing. There's also the fact that you can only do the ACT that makes Jevil tired when all three members are alive, while with Spamton NEO you can cut wires even when not all members are alive. Then again, Deltarune chapter 1 was the first of Toby's games I actually played, so maybe that's why it was harder for me.
i died 3 times to spamton and beat him at the next day, and snowgrave route spamton i will never do
while i beat jevil on only 2 tries
I'm so interested Kris's response to Spamton after the fight. The idea that our protag has what might be a panic attack over an existential crisis is horrifiying and fascinating at the same time, especially since all we get comes from outside of Kris's internal viewpoint.
"You don't need friends, I can turn my hands into phones" KRIS THE MAN IS SPEAKING REASON!
Spamton: YOU DON'T NEED [Friends]!! I CAN MAKE MY HANDS INTO PHONES!!!
I find this line very important
Sans get depressed
Jevil Turned Mad
Spamton tried to be free.
And Kris is freaking upset
Now someone go and make art of this three sentences!
Ah yes,
Spamton both turned mad and tried to be free
@@isimyok960Sans tried to be free too. Rooting for Us/Frisk, (Convince they/Us in the best terms to be good).
And fight to stop us in the worst scenario.
Those three are faces of the same problem.
*Sans/jevil/spantom:
-Someone once told me, that Time is a flat circle.
It's really interesting to see a bit of the real Kris come out after the neo fight. And i'm wondering if its because Kris relates to Spamton. And if Kris is scared of what will happen if they permanently keep us out of their body
I really like the idea of giving every chapter a secret character that had some direct connection to Gaster. While I hope that at the end of the game Gaster could make an actuall appearance in front of the player, I wouldn't bet on it too hard.
I mean, I could see it, idealistic as that may be. This game is hinting HARD at the existence of Gaster, to the point where I can almost see him more as a Deltarune character than anything else.
Notice how when you get closer to the end of the fight, it says “the stage lights are shattered” but in undertale genocide, when you fight mettaton NEO it says “stage lights are blaring”. And while that sounds like an obvious reason as to how spamton gains the power of NEO for himself, you gotta credit the neat little call back all the way from the genocide route.
Yep
Toby is not only a genius of music motifs, but also of story motifs.
how the hell do you people notice these details
@@thewall4069 Funny enough that’s not even the most obscure detail. There’s check text saying Spamton Neo is his own worst invention and undertale calls Mettaton Neo Alphy’s greatest. It’s so obscure because you need to check twice to see it which nobody would ever do unless by accident.
@@Space-ious *(edited)*
I smiled when Susie said "Too late, already imagining you guys as idiot-scented candles."
Gotta say I was kinda freaked out when she said that made Kris smile.
*(edited)*
@@saucesaucesaucesauce1380 bruh wtf is your problem
@@greatdayforpizza6974 your mother
And it is one of the only moments in the game Kris shows emotion
@@saucesaucesaucesauce1380 Anime profile pic detected. Opinion discarded.
No one gonna talk about the yellow soul mode reveal
Jevil and Spamton. One lived the other. Died I think? Both talked to by the man in hands. He probably stopped helping Spamton probably because of personal problems or something else entirely.
And he was talking to him again but Spamton left, Gaster still stayed on the line thinking where his friend went.
Yes, of course, stay that positive, spamton wasnt a friend to gaster, spamton, as jevil, was a PUPPET, dont you see it in his neo form? He has STRINGS, in the store he just... starts to glitch and a text, a NORMAL text asks us for help, if we can hear him, that is spamton, the TRUE one, jevil had luck, he only went insane, but spamton turned into a shell of himself, controlled but whatever force
Spamton isn't dead
He's an item but he can't move or interact much
@@kinglycrimson oh I thought he died.
@@zcgamerandreacts2762 both secret bosses turn into items to help you, tho
Was it Gaster, though? I assumed the one helping Spamton was “Mike”.
He certainly _reacted_ to saying the name like someone who’d had the rug pulled out from under them.
There's so much to talk about with this fight alone.
There's a lot of themes of freedom and someone being controlled by some outside force, but the thing that gets me is why the power of Neo is so important.
Where did Neo come from if we could only see it in the No Mercy route of Undertale?
I know it was probably confirmed before, but this makes it look like both endings to Undertale are canon.
What if this world of Deltarune we are doing what Chara said? To move onto the next world but Kris refuses?
Also, is the Neo EX a reference to a mod of mettaton Neo fight?
God, I love this game
*(edited)*
Seeing Spamton happy made me happy too, he was finally going to be free... or so I thought. He just fell like that on the ground, continued with absolute silence. It was shocking, in a sad way
Don't worry! He's a [profitable items for 9.99$] in Kris' [pants sack]
"Spamtom neo its recognized by his hig defense"
Yes SUPER stereotyped by that... sure.... mettaton neo died at the second lol
To be fair, we were level... 14 at that point? Here no matter how strong we get, we're always level 2
@@Grushuri yeah, lv 14 frisk can probably take down every deltarune enemy with 1 hit
I think it's a joke Toby made because MTT Neo has -40000 Defense
@@mew3929 yes its sarcasm...
@@Grushuri that and mettaton neo had only like 9 defense, lmao
I didn't play it myself but watched a pacifist let's play and when I tell y'all that I was trying my hardest to not cry when he dropped onto the ground, I ain't lying. Truly a great character with a great boss fight.
can I just say I absolutely adored this boss fight?
I loved it because it A. blended lighmotifs from three other bossfights witch are among my favorite video game experiences ever (yes, even MTT Neo) so that had a coolness and nostalgia. and B. the bossfight is the most enjoyable of the fights in chap 2, mainly because of the characters aesthetic and music that characterizes it perfectly.
Also i thought the jevil fight was sick and its kind of similar.
13:31 really got the "Can your pet?" vibes
oh
simply just oh
19:02 "garbage noise" that's entry 17 also mentioned as "garbage noise" when you call home in this world spamton definitely has a connection with gaster
Glad I saw the other dialog options. I know I walked away from that boss fight feeling not ok personally. Susie said it best, it really WAS god damn weird. "Kris you ok?" Ya know what? No, no I'm not. There was a lot there and we're just leaving! Just... No! "Kris... You're yelling" Good!
@Shadow Dream oh I'm almost positive that's the case. It was just another layer on top of the unsettling sandwich
@@ArchangelAsias just the grainy buttercream frosting on the psychological horror cake
Now I know why kris gets “emotional” after the fight because we are the strings attached to kris
I'm proud I defeated him in my second try! The whole moment leading up to this was scary af
Btw, there is another variant of this boss fight if you try the Snowgrave route, Deltarune's version of genocide route where you force Noelle to freeze everyone to death.
And you'll have to fight Spamton Neo with only Kris
If I was Kris in this situation, that would've been the most traumatic shit I have ever witnessed.
‘Mike’ is definitely a character that is gonna appear in the next chapter. It looks like it’ll be TV themed and every time he’s brought up it’s with mentions of TV [‘Mike’s a criminal, don’t believe what you see on TV’ and ‘Are you GETTING THIS, Mike?’]
Mike is a guy from the 1997 [bigshot] advertisement
13:36
Ha! I noticed a detail! Whenever Spamton isn't under control anymore, except before he dies, he takes that face. Completely blank and black and white. And since that's when he immediately broke from his strings, that may be what he looked like before.
How did Ralsei walk on the black??
The power of noclip
In the cyber world, if ralsei and susie happen to walk on the black, transparent platforms appear on their way. Must be something similar
He used Creative Mode
This isn’t as big a deal as I initially made it out to be; Kris also has the potential to walk on the black in the alternate version of this cutscene.
He's just built different.
Theory : Spamton trying to let go of his "strings" influenced kris making kris feel genuine emotions
Either Spamtron is a Virus inside cyberworld (or any general malicious program) or he is someone that knows too much just like Ralsei.
this is why susie is my favourite character in deltarune
"Don't think about what happened too hard"
*THINKS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED EVEN HARDER*
What’s chilling the most is how spamton only talks to kris, singling him out of the three. Only kris.
I love that you can hear a hint of metaton, and even the angry dummy at one point in the song
On a different note, this made me realise something
Will fighting certain secret bosses and skipping others affect your gameplay?
Since the secret bosses do happen to seem to be SECRETLY (ironicly) connected
If we skip the mentions about jevil it is very likely that Mike is the secret boss for the next chapter or one of the main bosses
And will """freeing"""" spamton or at least show his tool to what we assume will be mike in the next chapter?
First Jevil, now Spamton. Seems like secret bosses that are super hard are going to be a reoccurring thing in Deltarune Chapters.
Edit: at 3:34 you can also hear a slight bit of Jevil’s theme in there.
Edit 2: just realized they are also both insane people.
I read something that said that the leitmotif at 3:34 more than a Jevil leitmotif will be a "freedom" leitmotif that all secret bosses will have. Both Jevil and Spamton have themes of being free and in control in their fights, so it would make sense that the secret bosses going forward will have something similar
*(edited)*
Ralsei's such a homie, mans hug you after everything that just happened.
I've just realized that at one point of spamton neo's theme a fragment of jevil's theme is also been played so my theory is that the person spamton spoke to might be the same that jevil spoke with that day
The fragment starts been played at 5:54
Random thought, there are most likely gonna be seven secret bosses, and I just remembered that there are seven different soul colors. Spamton seems to have a lot of yellow going on, which symbolizes justice. Jevil’s area is all dark blue, which symbolizes integrity.
I wonder if that means we’ll be seeing all the other colors. Probably just overthinking it though
I say you're underthinking it. Spamton Neo blares out so many parallels to Metaton Neo you'd be a fool to ignore them. There's a running theory that the normal chapter bosses will all be foils to undertale's normal run bosses, and the superbosses will be foils to the genocide run bosses.
@@MrSailing101 you know what? that's a good theory! jevil is a foil to sans, with both of them knowing their worlds are/have aspects of games. spamton is mettaton neo, who both want their dream so badly?
@@forkalamari6093 if u give integrity to sans immediately then that doesn't leave much room for papyrus
@@saucesaucesaucesauce1380 true, I wasn't really but what I meant was that they're foils to one another
Ralsei is the bestest of best fluffy bois, but you can't deny he's acting sus.
1) He walks on air. What.
2) He seems to want to ignore everything that happened in the fight. Hmm...
3) I don't think Kris every told Ralsei which pie flavour they preferred.
4) He walks with his hands behind his back, which is usually a sign of something suspicious. Might be a stretch tho. :\
5) Why doesn't Ralsei turn into stone when he goes into this world? Lancer did. I'm probably just being dumb and not understanding the lore, so you guys please correct me if I'm wrong. :D
6) He somehow knows Kris's school layout.
6) Overall, he just seems to know too much. Maybe he's connected to Gaster in some way? Does he know who Gaster is? Is he some kind of fourth wall breaking character? Wow, this one boss fight (and the Jevil one) really gave the theorists a field day, huh? But he did hug us, so all is forgiven :)
1) I think this was done by lancer also at some point but could be wrong
2) he is avoiding stuff yes, but he is telling Kris not susie
3 and 4) not sure how to answer these
5) ralsei exist in the dark world. Lancer and rouxls are playing cards, heck most of them are toys which is why ralsei whispers to you to go get them, he is trying to not tell susie, is it suspicious yeah it is
6) that can be explained easily. When the lights are off the dark world exist. We can clearly see that every "dark world" is just a room in a place. So it could be that when the school lights are off the whole school becomes a dark world
Yeah, he’s definitely hiding something. However, if you don’t mind, I would like to say something about some of these points:
About 1) I think that’s just a animation mistake (Sorry, I couldn’t tell if you were joking or not, so it was just in case it wasn’t);
About 3) He was just throwing around cake flavors (He’s not even mentioning Pie flavors in the first place), meaning he didn’t know which one was their favorite. He just happened to suggest the Butterscotch flavor in the middle of the others: “Kris, I’ll make some cake for you later, ok?”, “I could even make it chocolate-flavored.”, “Butterscotch, cinnamon… whatever you want.”;
About 4) Yeah, that’s a stretch. Putting your hands behind your back doesn’t really mean anything. It’s just his new stance/sprite. I mean, a lot of people and characters walk like that, just saying.
About 5) When Lancer turned into stone, after explaining why that happened (If a Darkner moves to a Dark World different from their own, they might not “belong” and turn into stone), Ralsei said that Castle Town’s Dark Fountain is made of Pure Darkness, meaning any Darkner can live there. We’ve seen that that is definitely true (Whenever we come back to Castle Town) and since Ralsei came from that Fountain, the one made of Pure Darkness, I think that explains why he is fine when he moves to another Dark World.
About 6) Yeah, it’s definitely odd that he knows the school layout. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that Queen also knows about the Library somehow.
About 7) Not saying your theory is wrong, I just wanted say that we don’t know if this influencer (of JEVIL and Spamton) is really Gaster since this is an AU (Alternate Universe) and the garbage noise doesn’t necessarily mean it’s him since that noise might not really be exclusive to Gaster. For this reason, I prefer to call them by a different name. I call them: The Entity. I just think it’s better to call them by this name since we don’t know who or what they are.
Now, 2 and 6 are the points that I would consider suspicious. He definitely seems to know something about Spamton or what happened to him or maybe something about the SOUL because he was very clearly bothered despite saying he doesn’t think it meant anything, at least judging from his sprites. He did definitely worry about Kris because after he noticed Kris was bothered he went to try to calm him down and comfort him the best he could. I’ve seen some people say that he didn’t care about Kris in this scene because he only did something after Susie notices the goosebumps, but people seem to ignore the fact that: 1. He had his back turned to Kris because he was talking to Susie so of course he didn’t notice immediately (Neither did Susie, but since she was facing both of them, of course she noticed); 2. He immediately went to comfort him the moment he noticed Kris wasn’t well, like when he yelled out “No” (And because when Susie went to talk to Kris, he could have only shown that he noticed after Kris either said “Yes” or “No”; 3. If you hugged him when you were to pose for a picture at the end of the Acid Pool Boat Ride, he will hug you here to calm you down and then when Susie leaves after both of them had that cute exchange about hugs, he says: “I think everything will be ok, Kris.” and Kris (along with Ralsei, both) walk(s) out of there on their own.
So yeah, Ralsei is hiding something (From Kris, and the Player), but I don’t think he is doing that maliciously or for evil purposes or anything like that. Maybe he has good intentions and reasons to hide this stuff because maybe he fears what might be done with that information? In any case, I think he is still very nice even if he’s a bit secretive, but maybe he has good reasons to act this way. I think he is still, as you put it, the Bestest of Best Fluffy Boys (Not that I ever thought he wasn’t, mind you). :)
Yeah, he’s definitely hiding something. However, if you don’t mind, I would like to say something about some of these points:
About 1) I think that’s just a animation mistake (Sorry, I couldn’t tell if you were joking or not, so it was just in case it wasn’t);
About 3) He was just throwing around cake flavors (He’s not even mentioning Pie flavors in the first place), meaning he didn’t know which one was their favorite. He just happened to suggest the Butterscotch flavor in the middle of the others: “Kris, I’ll make some cake for you later, ok?”, “I could even make it chocolate-flavored.”, “Butterscotch, cinnamon… whatever you want.”;
About 4) Yeah, that’s a stretch. Putting your hands behind your back doesn’t really mean anything. It’s just his new stance/sprite. I mean, a lot of people and characters walk like that, just saying.
About 5) When Lancer turned into stone, after explaining why that happened (If a Darkner moves to a Dark World different from their own, they might not “belong” and turn into stone), Ralsei said that Castle Town’s Dark Fountain is made of Pure Darkness, meaning any Darkner can live there. We’ve seen that that is definitely true (Whenever we come back to Castle Town) and since Ralsei came from that Fountain, the one made of Pure Darkness, I think that explains why he is fine when he moves to another Dark World.
About 6) Yeah, it’s definitely odd that he knows the school layout. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that Queen also knows about the Library somehow.
About 7) Not saying your theory is wrong, I just wanted say that we don’t know if this influencer (of JEVIL and Spamton) is really Gaster since this is an AU (Alternate Universe) and the garbage noise doesn’t necessarily mean it’s him since that noise might not really be exclusive to Gaster. For this reason, I prefer to call them by a different name. I call them: The Entity. I just think it’s better to call them by this name since we don’t know who or what they are.
Now, 2 and 6 are the points that I would consider suspicious. He definitely seems to know something about Spamton or what happened to him or maybe something about the SOUL because he was very clearly bothered despite saying he doesn’t think it meant anything, at least judging from his sprites. He did definitely worry about Kris because after he noticed Kris was bothered he went to try to calm him down and comfort him the best he could. I’ve seen some people say that he didn’t care about Kris in this scene because he only did something after Susie notices the goosebumps, but people seem to ignore the fact that: 1. He had his back turned to Kris because he was talking to Susie so of course he didn’t notice immediately (Neither did Susie, but since she was facing both of them, of course she noticed); 2. He immediately went to comfort him the moment he noticed Kris wasn’t well, like when he yelled out “No” (And because when Susie went to talk to Kris, he could have only shown that he noticed after Kris either said “Yes” or “No”; 3. If you hugged him when you were to pose for a picture at the end of the Acid Pool Boat Ride, he will hug you here to calm you down and then when Susie leaves after both of them had that cute exchange about hugs, he says: “I think everything will be ok, Kris.” and Kris (along with Ralsei, both) walk(s) out of there on their own.
So yeah, Ralsei is hiding something (From Kris, and the Player), but I don’t think he is doing that maliciously or for evil purposes or anything like that. Maybe he has good intentions and reasons to hide this stuff because maybe he fears what might be done with that information? In any case, I think he is still very nice even if he’s a bit secretive, but maybe he has good reasons to act this way. I think he is still, as you put it, the Bestest of Best Fluffy Boys (Not that I ever thought he wasn’t, mind you). :)
@@gadjetjr.7528 Thank you for replying! I agree that most of these points have some explanation behind them, I just listed them in case. However, I feel like the bscotch/cinnamon cake flavour choice is still quite sus. In Undertale, Toriel asked you to chose between bscotch and cinnamon pie, so isn't it interesting that Ralsei would list the two exact same options? It could be just a funny joke that Toby Fox made (Haha look here's a reference to Undertale!), though, and probably wouldn't mean anything important.
I find it kinda cute how it’s implied that Susie only talked about burning Kris and Ralsei for warmth just to get a smile out of Kris.
Man, poor Kris.
This sequence is definitely my favorite in the game. Very ominous and creepy, too. Even just the environment is strange: it's industrial and has plantlife, not at all like the rest of he Cyber World.
Kris being so obviously disturbed and panicking at the end is heartbreaking. At least they have two really good friends by their side, who came looking for them and comforted them afterwards. I hope that we can set them free during Chapter 7.
I struggled with this fight for THREE DAYS and I'm glad I'm not the only one who died constantly because of the bullet and phone-hands attacks.
I keep getting a ton of damage from the phone hands, pipis eggs and the attack where he like shoots a lot of stuff from his face
He reminds me of those fill-in-the-blank books where you write down random nouns and verbs in the blanks so it could say like
"The pizza is (purple) and the fries are (slimy)"
I know I'm two years late, but are you thinking of Mad Libs?
I never knew you could talk to swatch about the basement so I was suprised to hear about it
Meanwhile, in the Sr. Pelo universe,
" NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO TAKE A [[BIG SHIT]] "
"let me become your strenght"
last words of spamton
12:16 Ralsei is in on the whole "Butterscotch or Cinnamon" thing, that's another point on the sus list
To see Spamton reduced to a stringless automaton in front of Kris is definitely one of the greatest moments in the game. Kris’ reaction (per Kris’ friends) is a huge indicator of the character development in this game
I just realized spamton says he has victory smoke like berdly does…
King, Jevil, all the freaky people: doesn't scare Kris
This tall puppet man: gives Kris a panic attack and probably traumatized him for years to come
Notice how he speaks normally after the fight? Without [] iykwim
By far my favorite boss fight in the whole series, this was fuckin awesome... anyways Ralsei is sus as fuck.
I don't like Ralsei's attitude about this. This was clearly disturbing to Kris and instead of letting them process what happened he tells them to bottle it up and think about nice things :/ toxic positivity is such a red flag
True, but he probably just doesn't know what to do. I have a lot of trouble knowing how to comfort people when they're distressed. I don't think he's acting maliciously here, just out of ignorance.
@@jacknapier9378 and they were the first people ralsei ever interacted with
I noticed something. Kris seems to snap after the Spamton fight regardless of wether you destroy him or cut his wires. Kris doesn't freak out exclusively after Spamton becomes helpless when his strings are cut, they also freak out after Spamton explodes trying to evolve into his next form. Isn't that kind of a weird detail, that Kris is deeply unsettled by Spamton wether or not it's revealed that Spamton is nothing without his wires?
I mean would you not be unsettled by that whole thing? Even Susie was clearly Not Happy with what just happened. Ralsei was the only one who seemed willing to ignore it...
@@dekkonot Yeah, and Kris is shown to be afraid of Spamton far before that whole "puppet" talk starts. I smell a red herring.
Thats mainly because both outcomes still tell Kris "You cant break your strings", becoming stronger like Spamton Neo turning on his EX mode only delays the inevitable truth (or even speeds it up in his case), while cutting said strings can kill you.
maybe it also shows that if he tries grinding and gaining more power than the soul can handle, he still won't be able to break free?
I still cant believe that i losted only once before defeating him in a decent run
I bet every secret boss will have an ultimate attack like 8:35 which their final blow does nothing like Jevil's huge devilsknife lmao
People are saying Pacifist Spamton is the darkest, but have you noticed how Spamton never wanted to give you anything in the Snowgrave route? *You* took the Puppetscarf from his body, right after Noelle froze him.
spamton finally channeled his inner big shot.
A theory I really like is that Kris' soul isn't actually Kris', its the player's soul. Kris himself is his own person with his own thoughts and feelings, and the soul in him is controlling him and forcing him to do and say things he doesnt want to do. Thats why Kris gets so freaked out after the fight with Spamton, because the same way Spamton was just a puppet on strings, Kris feels the same way about himself. Spamton dying after removing his strings really freaked out Kris, and he might be afraid that by removing his own strings, a.k.a his soul, that he himself might suffer the same fate. Thats why everytime he removes the soul in the endings, he always walks slowly and like he's in pain.
that's actually the whole thing
It was 3 AM on release day when it happened, so maybe my memory is failing, but it seems like I never got the dialog with the yes or no question after the first time I did the fight. I guess my game's bugged? I did it again on a new file tonight and it was the first time I saw it, it really stuck out to me. I did it like three times in a row just to make sure I didn't miss any dialog. Also it looks like Ralsei won't hug Kris unless you've done the swan ride part. weird!
i played it a few weeks after release and i don't remember getting this either. the only idea i have for why i didn't get it is that i didn't fight Spamton on my first run and went back to a save point after beating the game to fight him, that or it's bugged. i'm not sure.
i love how the laugh is twice as loud when the fight starts just to make sure you're thorougly hyped
toby fox has really outdone himself on this one
Every other Darkner admitting that they want to kill you
Spamton: [Die Now] for 50 KROMER
Also Spamton: [TRANSFER KROMER]
It only lasts like five seconds, but the animation where Spamton's NEO body falls dead after cutting the string is just _so_ good.
19:06 'there was nothing but garbage noise'. There is only one thing we associate with garbage noise.
16:44
I feel like this is implying that hope doesn't matter without the ability to make a difference, that's one hell of a message.
I thought it was just referencing the fact that Mettaton NEO never got to attack.
@@grfrjiglstan imagine if Toby is just a next level troll and put all this stuff about "a lightner's dream" not coming to fruition as an in joke about Mettaton NEO never having the ability to attack
69 likes Noice funni number moment
Or is maybe cause they never had a reason to use it
The decayed robot's hair kinda looks like mettaton's hair
Maybe the decayed robot was mettaton neo so when you insert spamton's disk in it it became spamton neo
When I fought Spamton, at the end, when Susie asked if Kris was okay, I said no on purpose. I was basically thinking that Kris wanted to say no, but still, they don’t have any control on their actions, on their words. I answered what Kris wanted to answer, and apparently I was right. The fact that they’re yelling the reply « no » is confirming that they’re at the player’s mercy. Spamton also says that they can break their own strings, and Kris for sure was concerned about this.
God, Ralsei is _so_ suspicious in that scene if you say Yes. Even if you say no he's pretty sus, but... holy shit. How did he know to offer cinnamon and butterscotch?
i did not know why big shot was coming up in my reccomended but now i do
I didn't even finish the video so I don't I know if/how they are related but Spamton Neo has a uh moment that is Jevil's music, idk how to phrase that but they have the same theme, around 3:44
The thing that's sad is like jevil, spamton knows he's just a character in a game, but unlike jevil who realized nothing matters anyways and causing chaos spamton tried to make himself part of you, even forcing you into a fight in the alley, but yet he couldn't succeed
Oh God! What's up with Toby Fox giving these secret bosses such badass theme songs?! 🤘🎶
First Sans, then Jevil, and now Spamton! What's, or who's next?? 🤩