Sorry about the minor audio issues at some points~ Hopefully you enjoy this video and the insights I gave! 🤫 Also, Get 10% Off Redact Today Using My Code - redact.dev/?affiliateCode=KENIISU 📝 𝗔𝗱𝗱𝗿𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗦𝗼𝗺𝗲 𝗖𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗶𝘀𝗺: I feel I should address four pieces of feedback as I feel my words and beliefs have been misconstrued or misunderstood by a lot of parties, and I just want to clarify. There was more I could talk about, but it would take me all day to get to every single critique, so I wanted to address some I felt needing clarity. "𝙏𝙝𝙞𝙨 𝙞𝙨𝙣'𝙩 𝙧𝙚𝙥𝙧𝙚𝙨𝙚𝙣𝙩𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙖𝙡𝙡 𝙤𝙛 𝙧/𝙠𝙪𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙟𝙞" I agree. I wrote in the section about the "internal civil war" as to actually explain that within the subreddit there exists a growing discontent with the way a vocal group of the movement have gone about criticizing Nijisanji, hence the following line - "𝘌𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘱 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘮𝘴 𝘶𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘲𝘶𝘦, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘢𝘬𝘦𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘵 𝘣𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘵𝘰𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘥𝘴 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯". The intent of this video was to highlight the issues I have with the subreddit (as a lurker myself), and the way in which a lot of members go about criticizing Nijisanji, though of course, while I believe this issues are pervasive and do show up frequently on the subreddit, it is not an indictment of every member or every conversation that occurs there. In fact, as others have pointed out, it can actually be a subreddit which is a relief from some of the toxic positivity that occurs in other subreddits and to discuss the issues of the industry more frankly. "𝙔𝙤𝙪'𝙧𝙚 𝙙𝙤𝙬𝙣𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙬𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙉𝙞𝙟𝙞𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙟𝙞 𝙙𝙞𝙙." I purposefully decided not to include a laundry list of Nijisanji's offenses, because it felt redundant when a myriad of videos exist on the subject, by people much more equipped to discuss their issues at an extensive length (I included some good starting points in the description). If you're at all familiar with my content and or my Twitter, I am not one to shy away from criticizing or bashing Nijisanji or its fans which step out of line. It just wasn't the focus of the video, so I only mentioned the primary three big events which led to the backlash against Nijisanji to reach a tipping point. I don't like Nijisanji as a company, and calling me a "Nijisister" is a bit wild given how I've discussed them previously, and continue to do so. I understand not everyone will have this context, but I think also jumping to this conclusion without any context is silly too. "𝙄𝙩'𝙨 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙝𝙖𝙩𝙚𝙬𝙖𝙩𝙘𝙝𝙞𝙣𝙜." Hatewatching as I defined it and as most people probably would doesn't mean you continuously watch every single thing a person is doing, it merely means you are following and keeping up with someone or some entity for a reason stemming essentially from hate, whether justified or not. "𝙒𝙝𝙮 𝙬𝙤𝙪𝙡𝙙 𝙬𝙚 𝙚𝙫𝙚𝙧 𝙥𝙪𝙨𝙝 𝙥𝙤𝙨𝙞𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙞𝙩𝙮 𝙩𝙤𝙬𝙖𝙧𝙙 𝙉𝙞𝙟𝙞𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙟𝙞? 𝙒𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙮𝙤𝙪 𝙨𝙖𝙮𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙖𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙚𝙣𝙙 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙫𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙤?" I could've been more clear with how I structured this part of the video, admittedly. However, when I mention the positivity message toward the end it's in connection to the previous section of toxicity leaking outside of just the select vocal group of people in places like r/kurosanji and into the broader community, not as a direct call to action to look toward the positive side of Nijisanji. I'm stating that I believe the community has developed, to some extent, a negativity bias which often overshadows a lot of the positives in the community worth celebrating. This negativity bias is exhibited often in r/kurosanji, however is not always the case as they do share positive news there from time to time. Additionally, a trend I've noticed is that unfortunately some of the hate for Nijisanji does trickle down to its LIVERs and I have seen this happen a fair amount of times which is where the "Be kind to people, but be ruthless to systems" line comes in. It's me saying we shouldn't wish misfortunate on those connected to the company, but instead on the systems at play which allow Nijisanji to be upheld the way it is despite it's severe and continuous issues. I hope this clear things up - or maybe it doesn't. I was told it wouldn't be worth addressing the feedback, but I felt it was kind of necessary to at least clarify some points which admittedly could've been made clearer so I hope it can be understood.
The r/kurosanji subreddit was created after the official r/nijisanji sub would delete all threads criticizing the company after the Selen incident. Some of the biggest antis there are ex Nijisanji EN fans such as fans of Selen, Pomu, or Nina. Or they were fans of Michi of the former ID branch. Some were fans of Gundou Mirei of the JP main branch.
That's a bit of an understatement considering how people can just flat-out _no longer post_ to r/Nijisanji outside of the official Nijisanji accounts. Like at all.
@@pezzo7089 because you literally cant all posts got removed and the only thing that sticks are the posts you see now to this day it's a barren land and you can also see people with oshis still in niji post about significant niji/talent events in the kurosanji subreddit
To clarify, I don't think this represents the entire community, hence the section where I state the following: "Even within a group that seems united in its critique, there are those who are concerned about the direction the conversation has taken and are working to steer it back towards its original mission."
I acknowledge that's the case with the line: "Creating a hostile work environment where talents feel bullied, and feel ostracized upon leaving." which was referring to Doki and Zaion, respectively.
@@Keniisu yes but in my opinion failing to mention it explicitly kinda feel like there's a missing context as to why ppl are so angry and relishing every time this company fail. It's not just the mismanagement, the talents themselves are kinda bad hence why to some they want it all to burn.
The pro-anti wars are definitely exhausting. Thank you for your nuanced take on all this! I don’t agree with all your points but I respect the way you handled the topic!
I was fully in agreement with this video up until the clip of Mr underhill 😵💫 I’m not sure if ur jabbing at him or because he’s mentioned the large backlash he received for speaking positively on the livers?
Maybe jabbing? I don't know. But he certainly is not positive. He's the poster boy of toxic positivity. He excuses any of the bad things the livers and the company does, or somehow tries to spin it into them being good things actually. He also accused Dokibird of lying about everything that happened to her and accused Luca Kaneshiro's accuser of fabricating stories about him.
Hello there, I'm a regular poster on r/kurosanji, which I joined shortly after Selen's termination, so I might be able to clarify a couple things. I'll try not to cover things that have already been tackled by you or some comments. Firstly, it's important to understand that what binds the community together is our dislike of Nijisanji's past and current practices, aaaaand... that's about it. In fact, even this premise could be put into question considering that this sub was initially just r/Nijisanji without the censorship, tho you're mostly correct about what it is now. I can't really generalize any further, because beyond that and being Vtuber fans first and foremost, the community is simply too diverse in what we like, what we want, how we feel about all of it, etc. You're correct in that some people do revel in Niji's downfall, but others would much rather see them survive and learn from their mistakes for the sake of the livers. There are even some, like me, who don't actively _want_ to see NijiEN fail, but simply came to the conclusion that it will never be reformed, and that its failure is only a matter of time now and a necessary evil both for closure on their misdeeds and for the wellbeing of the remaining livers. For me, the sub is a news source and a space where I can discuss them with other people, which helps me form and adjust my opinions about all things Niji ; but it might not be the same for others, and I have neither the knowledge nor the authority to speak for them. Same goes for viewership, there are definitely hate-watchers within the community, but as a regular poster I can tell you they're far from being the majority -- from the rest, some only watch clips, maybe a couple livers we still like, and others have stopped all forms of engagement despite our conflicting feelings for the sake of the boycott. I'm of the latter, and believe me I'd love nothing more than to keep watching my oshis as if nothing happened, but it just feels wrong, and I'd rather endure it than to support Niji in any way, shape or form. Ideally I'd want for my oshis to leave so that I can give them my full support again without Niji leeching off of it, but I'll also respect their decision to stay without looking back if that's what they want. Again, I'm just speaking for myself, but you'll find their motives and actions of the others just as diverse as mine. You made a good point about the vortex of negativity, but you might want to know that we are very much aware of this problem and have already taken steps to combat it. For example, the fact that the sub allows for convos about other corpos was implemented to spread more positive news and discussions. And while it's true that some people did use it for easy "Niji could never" indignation at first, it's become more of a "you do you" type of reaction rather than the general sentiment, and most of us are genuinely appreciative of any and all successes by other corpos and indies. The community has already embraced that r/kurosanji needed to be more than just about Niji for its own good (mostly due to losing hope of ever seeing them improve), so we might as well fully enjoy and discuss what the rest of the Vtuber sphere has to offer in-between actual Niji news. Also, it's not like this vortex came out of nowhere. I can't exactly claim I'm unbiased, but even without the doom glasses, the amount of Ls Niji collected over the last 1.5 years is objectively alarming. We do try to relay all their screw-ups through the sub, even minor or "petty" ones, but that doesn't mean they all get treated with the same levels of outrage, let alone scrutiny. Besides, some of it might look "petty" to you with an outside perspective, but in some cases the posts you pointed out are about underlying issues within Niji that a lot of us have observed time and again and which deserve to be called out as well, even if they're not as grave or sensational as Zaion's and Selen's terminations. As for the remainder, even in the case of actual petty criticism, the mods are very careful when deleting posts (understandably so considering the origins and main goal of the sub), always clarifying their reasoning for doing so, and when in doubt, would rather leave the post up for everyone to make their own opinion of it. And the community happily obliges and calls out bad faith posts that add nothing of value or that are downright malicious. Even with the boycott, the vast majority of us still have the livers' best interests at heart, even in spite of our personal feelings towards some of them, in particular those who were involved in these two terminations the most. Ok admittedly I wasn't planning on my reply being this long at first, but I guess it goes to show why I'm so active in the sub LOL. Anyway, hopefully it gives you additional context about the sub's activity.
I think there are multiple things that led to r/kurosanji getting big. The obvious ones are the termination of Selen (and to a lesser extent, Zaion), and the burning down of r/Nijisanji. But I also think people realized that the "Nijisanji Defense Force", or better known now as Nijisisters, were a group that actually existed and was something that had to be fought to protect the talents of the company. Seeing a "fan" community of anonymous people in real time build documents to encourage others to disseminate false information about a former talent in a public smear campaign that didn't originate from an actual organization was fucking wild. The absolute vitriol that these people had for Selen was insane, and I think it really encouraged people to establish a community that not only disliked Nijisanji, but its fanbase.
I personally have a neutral to low opinion of drama channels in general, but I feel like you did an excellent job explaining and analyzing the issues with the community. Thank you for trying to encourage a more mature and meaningful way of behavior within the community.
you lost me when you used "drama channels", what they do is inform, they tend to click bait yeah, but isnt that in ALL channels? Clickbait is a MUST to grow, people that say is not, they are full of bs. You like it good on you, you dont like it? well keep quiet and move along.
@@AtemerusRhayli Drama channels do tend to be extremely clickbait and cringe(subjectively). And I'm allowed to have that opinion, and so is anyone. We're allowed to express our distain and judge channels for being cheap and lowzy no matter how sujective or not it may be. Heck, I'ma watch this video later now all because of this guys comment, to see if it lives up to it, as much as I disagree with all the niji hate and drama train and consider it extremely childish, I still want to expand my knowledge.
Really agree with this video. As someone whos still in the niji community a lot of us do have our criticisms towards it (even if ppl say we dont). Nobody (except crazys which is in every community) cares if ppl dont like niji anymore, its the fact that if you see any positives ur called a bootlicker or a nijisister. It has gone from just criticisms to outright speculation and malice. Take the Ryoma ordeal where ppl called him a abuser for a debut line and called ppl nijisisters for defending him. Then take when Wilson pulled out of Niji GTA and ppl said its bc EN was banned from it, which was far from the truth. Or even recently when YAB doxxed and even drugged niji livers and ppl blamed the staff, when YAB could have done this to more ppl having worked for holo and indies. A lot of things that blow up out of that community rn is just ppl confirming their biases instead of actually trying to fix a problem. Even take when koto returned and some ppl were angry about that. This is to say even as someone whos still in the community I have my gripes, but it doesnt help us solve actual problems going on when ppl make up fake things, or make drama out of nothing. It doesn't help the "good" talents ppl want to "save" it doesn't make the community better in anyway when ppl look at events from other agencys and instead of feeling happiness or joy its "kurosanji could never." Even in the comments really, while I do think theres some crazy niji fans but that could b the same from other vtubers fans as well. Ive seen ppl from both sides get harrassed/ doxxed and I honestly think its really just a vtubing community problem in general sadly. But nonetheless, this video was good and I wouldnt sweat ppl getting mad at u in the comments tbh.
@xhkkal I also think most in the niji community would tell people that stuff has become better. And it is very clear that we the audience don't know enough. A lot of people are taking issues from 1 side but rarely reflecting in the other sides of that issue
@@chimosgameclub9765 I think things have gotten better within niji which is why i stick around. Like denauth going to japan before they debuted to b a closer wave and get proper training, Iluna having their 3d models, Ren going to perform in 3d at an upcoming event, more help and staff, which a lot of niji members have been saying they get along with them. Even NIJIEncounter with people complaining that they werent singing original songs in their concerts. However theres still some issues with niji as well like a lot of ppl I see on my timeline r still criticizing too like fans who cared about the second half of the NBA collab, or merch not being more physical. The thing is however I think more ppl r taking issues from the niji side however rather than the other though, which is y a video like this was kind of needed, especially since the person who made it doesnt even like niji. I mean look at the comments, calling such a mild take and saying it was in bad faith. The truth of it all is that if someone has a nuanced take on the matter, theres people who will just not listen to another pov even if that person is on their side. We kind of have to reflect on kurosanji as a community bc its gotten to a point where ppl dont enjoy an event without bringing up niji. When holostars had their 3d, which i might add a lot of niji fans r also holo fans like me, ppl instead of enjoying it made it a numbers game. This new 3 day event that was announced for niji, is met with with ppl being harsh when niji literally hasnt done anything. My point being is that while I see some unsavory ppl in the niji community, the unsavory ppl in kurosanji are not held to the same standard imo. When spreading misinfo its treated as "well its expected from niji" rather than actually saying they were in the wrong.
Thank you for the video! It covers a lot of important issues and challenged some preconceptions I had. I assumed the intense hatred was from ex-fans who felt betrayed and wanted to ‘get back’ at the company. If the frenzy is from those who got involved FOR the controversy and are seeking a nebulous ‘justice,’ then there’s no incentive for them to fact check or chill out.
@@Rudolf_reindeer Yeah, no. There isn't anything straight-up untrue in what he said, but he amplified some problematic aspects of the community and made them out to be bigger problems than they are, or that we left them unaddressed and to spiral out of control. If you take a stroll on the sub, you'll find that the vast majority of us are, in fact, former fans who feel wronged by Niji and want accountability and changes to be made for the sake of the remaining livers. There are some outliers and bad actors, but we made it a sport to call them out, and the mods use our overall feedback to decide whether something should be removed or deserves to stay up for the sake of discussion. It wasn't easy to get there, especially after the sub started gaining traction, but I'm very pleased with our group effort to keep the community steered in the right direction. I invite you to take what he said with a grain of salt and make your own opinion on the matter.
cons of having a fresh out of university ceo someone who is too young with no experience running a multinational company, expanded too rapidly, should've slowed down on debuting talents and focused on building a strong management, it's actually quite something that a 28 year old manage to build such a big company, if all else fails he still has alot of years and money to build or rebuild his company again, its actually quite unfair to compare two companies with CEO's that have drastically difference in management experience if you think about it who would have a better grasp of business strategy a CEO who has been in corporate world for years(Yagoo) or a fresh out of the university newbie(riku tazumi), it irks me but its understandable that nijisanji failed to actually became a competitor to hololive i really wish they had a better ceo
People need to remember that no one starts off being an _Anti_ of something unless they had some heavy investment in the first place. The only ones who would turn into an _Anti_ are the same fans who were devoted enough to financially support them to a large degree. Anyone normal would just move on. So it says a lot about the talent or the company if they somehow bred so much dedicated haters in a short period of time, to the point where a subreddit was formed. Unfortunately, I don't think you delved deep enough if Niji-_Antis_ are the only thing you found. You somehow missed the other side of the conflict when this underground tribalism has been going on before a majority of the internet even discovered about vTubers. There are people out there who dedicated their entire lives to ruin the careers of the Holo and Niji talents, just so that they can prove that their company is better. It's only the latter that became more prominent in the eyes of the public because of the mainstream spotlight that took notice. It's no longer about a group of disgruntled fans, but an attack mob in bringing down others to fuel their own egos.
I agree with most of this, however I would wager that a sizable chunk (not the majority) of those who have become Antis were also the same to be involved in that tribalism prior to Nijisanji’s controversies and merely basking in their downfall, though not as a former fans. Additionally, I think there’s more to be said about the idea of Antis existing for any of these agencies, however I felt that Kurosanji was a particularly notable and sizable subset worth exploring on its own.
@@Keniisu I do agree. That's what my second paragraph was about. That's why I believe that Holo-Antis and Niji-Antis have been trying to one-up the other on who's better at bringing down the other company, but it's only the actions of latter that are easily available because of various English media coverage. This tribalism, this feud between these two groups is nothing short of disgusting.
@@yazayazaaiaiai749 Misogyny? If you go into the subreddit you will see more hatred for the favoritism given to male livers like Vox and Hex than anything else. Alongside absolute support for Doki, Mint, Scarle, Rosemi, Michi, etc.
@@yazayazaaiaiai749 dude, I have been in that sub since February and have never seen a single post of comment that is blatantly misogynistic. The clowned more on the male Lovers while showing love to the current and ex female lovers of nijisanji
Yup. At first the breakaway happened because Nijisanji turned their subreddit into a laughable "pristine" wasteland. Still fresh from the Selen incident, r/kurosanji had a direction and goal in mind. Now that the actual situation has simmered down and we're just dealing with lighter day to day but still troubling occurrences within Nijisanji, some have decided they need to continue with absolute malicious intent. I use a term there frequently, _healthy skepticism_ , a necessity due to the rise of bad actors who are stirring the pot for no reason. Comments often echo the same sentiment a bajillion times over different threads, and at this point there's little value in engaging with the random topics being brought up lately.
As one of the active posters back in the subreddit's heyday that shaped opinions, combated misinformation, and left that sub after the Q4 report (and poor subreddit management), this video was a surface-level perspective and analysis of the subreddit that kind of misses some of the nuances like /vt/ culture. I'll give it credit for trying to summarize the situation because yeah, it's a rabbit-hole. Still, there were definitely some pointers that many in the comments here and that subreddit have pointed out. 80% of the video felt like a rehash but your commentary at the end was nice, it's usually unspoken or never talked about in public, so props for doing that. Personally, I don't think you're going to enrage normal people, it's a fair take to have albeit hyperbolic. I kind of understand your anxiety about this subreddit's drama scope being open to other agencies. The reason for doing that for "positivity" from the mods is such absolute bullshit, in my opinion. There's a lot of bad faith posts there after the selen drama content dried up and misinformation did go viral there, though they're trying to fix that in a reactionary sense instead of proactively. Anyways, r/Kurosanji is a nice symbol for Vtuber managers to just not fuck up in a PR way. The Vtuber industry can thank Kurosanji for creating such a toxic mess that a community is created as a response. It's so easy for incompetent managers and incompetent PR people to abuse their positions of power against some people. See that place as a warning sign for your stupid shit to go viral lol. They're clearly not closing up shop, might as well adjust to the drama-hungry vtuber watchers. Also, the subreddit was a critical and smart subreddit when it was smaller. Once it got bigger, too many uninformed opinions and stupid users came by. It's a miracle the subreddit hasn't imploded yet but I think it'll die from lack of content, there's just nothing recently spicy to talk about or worth talking about anyways... well at least not yet. Doubt something as magnificent as the Kurosanji dumpster fire will happen again in the Vtuber scene, having a weeks-months long drama like that is not normal.
@@Travelling_Heart15 I almost jump to it but I did research first then it turns out that they lack of evidence against Ryouma so I just shut up and wait for the evidence. But well, they're wrong and they just use the subbreddit to incite hatred.
Very interesting video. Content was fantastic, I think we need to be careful when we start "crying wolf" because it lessens the impact of things that are legitimately concerning and are actual problems. Worrying over incredibly small things, just turns away people who are otherwise neutral, if a community just gets seen as 'cry wolf children', as it were. Thank you for touching on this, as someone who has been criticial of the company in the past. I do think we need to pick and choose our battles. Love the editing as well.
This feels very shallow ngl. Like, you throw out a lot of quite big claims without really much proof but mostly cherrypicked posts. Claiming that kurosanji is trying to deplatform/cancel existing members: Sorry, do we have a different understanding of what deplatforming is? The default mode for kurosanji in the case of a dislike talent is to 'dont care' since they've mostly lost hope for any change. I have yet to see a single post there that calls to mass-report channels which is what deplatforming usually entails. So, Proof? Celebrating every misstep nijisanji makes: I guess meming is celebrating now? It is true that kurosanji does make fun of the talents and their dumb statements and that it has made it so that se misteps are more remembered than others, but it does actually help cataloguing them. In addition, are we not allowed to call them out? Its not just one misstep every once in a while followed by good things, its a pattern of behaviour then. That the subreddit speaks for all and the cycle of cynisicm: Almost every single person who has some knowledge of vtubing, KNOWS that nijisanji is trash. To say that this is solely due to kurosanji would be naive or extremely bad faith. Charlie/Penguinz has the biggest video on this topic and he doesnt once mention kurosanji, neither does Mutahar. They found the story and reported on it and kurosanji had nothing to do with it. As strange as it sounds; people can come to the same conclusion when given the same info. The wide scale of toxicity can trickle down? I would like to see some proof of this. Not sure what you mean by this, the sub has mostly been people going into, rather than out of. There has been an entire discussion on how to minimize harrasement towards the sisters while still posting their delusions. The rule has mostly been: laugh but dont engage. Are they not allowed to discuss anything then? You say that since the sub also talks about other agencies this toxicity also goes over there and has done so already. To be an asshole about it: Proof? Again, are we not allowed to call people out? Focus on negativity can and has overshadowed the positive. Again, Proof? If you want to see how that actually looks like, I invite you coordially to 4chan (slut shaming, calling vtubers whores both male and female, and a whole array of colourful insults). At least posts on kurosanji are curtailed a bit and people do hold others accountable there. 10:03-10:30 Ironic. I legit didnt get past this part without laughing. The ending is weird my dude and I feel like you didnt know how to end it. Indeed, you can lose sight of constructive criticism if you only focus on the negatives. Like say for example like you are doing with this video? Where are the positive posts on kurosanji? I know they exist so why not bring them up since we're talking about positivity so much? If you want to see how that looks, look at the vtuber subreddit. Nothing but thinly veiled selfpromotion and 'positivity'. Serious discussion gtfo. Why are you bringing up Brooks here? We need to be kind to people but ruthless to systems. You do understand that nijisanji is the way it is BECAUSE of said people, right? Finally: I find it a bit strange that many of the criticisms you levy against kurosanji are the same as the sisters do. Being critical? Oh, thats toxic. Calling things out? Oh, you're just jumping on the bandwagon. Saying Nijisanji is doing a bad thing? Oh, thats not really constructive criticism.
what positivity can we expect from nijishills really? ndf have doxed holo fans/holo members in jp/id/en and holostars en before, even causing mano aloe to graduate and multiple lawsuits for defamation/slander. the fact that company has fostered those kinds of fans is everything vs a rambling mess of a subreddit which has long overstayed it's welcome. the subreddit is an interesting study in people trying to find stuff where there's not much left vs targeted campaigns by ndf shills. i know what i find worse, i know what i find unforgivable, one weaksauce subreddit or targeted harrassment through twitter/discord and other backchannels?
One issue I would have highligthed was how easily Kurosanji was fooled in there crusage for "justice" such as the case with Ryoma, where the sub was all over that he was an abuser before he even debuted. It was a clear case of the fact that Kurosanji are often "blinded by hate".
There were a significant amount of people pushing back on the Ryoma issue at the time in the subreddit. Not everyone was jumping on the bandwagon, and there were quite a few comments/posts telling people to not go crazy off unverified information.
@thebudgetsupport Maybe with that scenario, but the sub still fully accepted rumors as facts for months on end. I still remember them attacking Enna because someone took comments she made about someone obsessed with her virginity and claimed she was attacking Niji critics. They were quite toxic and actively blamed her even after it was debunked.
So glad ur back on the grind keni! Hopefully this is the first of many more videos to come ❤ loving how clean this video is. Leaving a comment for the algorithm.
Seems kinda bad faith. Like you can pick out posts like the dog and cat one, but im sure if you actually go in there youd see comments saying that its non drama or people making some jokes. Are there some toxic weirdos? For sure. Name a community without toxic weirdos. But kurosanji nips anyone actually harassing anybody in the bud so if the worse thing they have is some schizo posts about some non issues, i dont see an issue. Positives, as few as there have been, are for sure rarely posted, but thats kinda the point. We dont want Niji to be in a positive light right now. If Niji is seen positively, people will want to join which could lead to another Zaion or Selen. Especially since they cant even guarantee a huge growth since they dont give any shit at all about their newest gens. At the end of the day the sub was made because the og got shut down and twitter was full of sisters trying to claim the most outrageous things. We dont love to hate niji. We want the livers(the ones who arent actual shit people like Vox snd Luka) to be safe. If Niji gets their shit together and makes up for the horrible things, then we would be happy. If they close EN, then thats that. But acting like the sub is for rage baity nonsense is really bad faith
I think you have taken the subreddit out of context a bit. r/kurosanji is just like any other community where you will find the whole spectrum of personality types. I have seen those who genuinely want positive change to the company, those who want it's downfall, and everything in-between. Sure you can call it toxic if you want too, and some of it certainly is, but even the r/Hololive has had its incredibly toxic periods (they once got their own subreddit locked because a new gen of Holostars debuted), and they are supposedly winning. That is just the nature of the internet. Also... lets face facts here... when to comes to AnyColor as a company... we are well passed the, "They certainly have their flaws and problems" stage. What they did to some of their livers may not have only been malicious, but some of it might have even been illegal - even under Japanese law. I don't know about anyone else, but when a company crosses legal red lines, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to take the gloves off if you will.
Good video, and I think you said a lot of what needed to be said. R/kurosanji was started with good and noble intentions, but lately it often feels like it's nitpicking rather nothing burger issues and amplifying them beyond what is necessary. It also feeds into a cycle of negativity where the NDF also gets reflexively more toxic in their rhetoric. That said, it's worth noting that Nijisanji's refusal to listen to fan's input and silence voices on their official channels is what gives rise to places like r/kurosanji in the first place.
If there is one missing context to add it is this: r/kurosanji was only created and became popularized because r/nijisanji perma banned its users, sometimes for extremely minor critiques, and shut its sub down to not allow any discussion. They had months to openly addressed community concerns and manage their community, but they chose to quietly delete all "controversial" posts and send cease and desist letter to Raziel to silence her instead. This led to r/kurosanji being the only sub where people can discuss the problematic issues surrounding Nijisanji. I would put the blame on the company over its ex-fans, Nijisanji got to do better and I have lost all hopes a long time ago so I am tuned out of this.
Not true whatsoever. People got banned for breaking rules and with rules I mean posting hateful messages, the same happened on kurosanji as well. Nazi edits, holocaust edits, gun to the head of livers, I've seen and reported it all to reddit in the past with nothing being done. This subreddit is a breeding ground for hate. Imagine sitting over here defending a fucking groomer for writing a defamation doc that tries to slander someone with 0 evidence.
Funnily enough i think i've occasionally seen some posts asking about stream schedules and things like that because after looking up r/nijisanji the first result was r/kurosanji due to the former being nuked so they thought kurosanji was the official sub.
@@Travelling_Heart15 Then maybe let them make their own decisions and stop trying to make them leave when they don't need or even want to leave. If you actually cared about them, you would stop constantly complaining about the job they love and the company they choose to be in. Personally, I love all the Niji livers, but unless there is a major, MAJOR concern, I am quiet about it on social media. If you wanted to actually help them, you would support them in any decision that they make, including staying right where they are.
@@evapunk522 wanting them to get out of niji is caring about them and wish to support them, if they don't leave niji and we just support them as is, there will be someone who is successful in their attempt to unalive themselves in niji, we don't want that to happend, there's more than 2 livers that have tried that in niji, their decision is already clouded by their feelings of inferiority cultivated by niji management, doki, michi, mint, Matara, and many other ex liver all felt that their former success was not their own efforts but because of nijisanji when in fact it was the other way around, wanting them to leave is the way to support them.
As an active participant of kurosanji most of what you discussed is true and accurate. However i do have two problems: 1. While there are no posts of positives in regards to Nijisanji, there are plenty of posts that are positive or celebrate the achievements of other vtubers and vtuber companies. So its not entirely a negative spotlight on the vtubing community. (Though there are people that try to push that extreme negativity.) 2. Using the dog and cat collab post as a point towards posts that are outwardly absurd is a bit of an unpopular opinion in my view. Majority of Kurosanji felt that it was an accurate post that showcased Nijisanji's use of favoritism towards talents.
I joined r/Kurosanji near the beginning of its creation as a way to keep up with the misdeeds of Nijisanji and some of its talents. I saw people breaking down and talking about narratives that were possible but were all under the guise that they were just possible narratives, not fact. I will admit at the time I was extremely irritated at Nijisanji and some of its talents because I had to watch as Sayu/Zaion was attacked and lambasted by Nijisanji fans for lies that Niji AND some of its talents told in order to frame her as a bad actor. So when Nijisanji got caught in a shitstorm as well as some of the talents that attacked Selen and Zaion I jumped at that shit like a feral dog because I wanted revenge. But that shitstorm made the people that were already fans into fanboys/girls and later into toxic fans that are so defensive they make up lies in order to either attack you or defend their husbando or waifu. Just the other day a guy accused me of pushing left wing politics in nijisanji liver unofficial discords and even pushing it in Livers streams, the only 2 places where that is against the rules to do so and I'm still somehow not banned, terrific logic. It's just a matter of hate breeding hate breeding hate. People that were already fans of Nijisanji are now super fans that won't hear any criticism or won't listen to reason when people try to argue that the people that Nijisanji did wrong deserved it. So while there is toxicity on both sides, it's only the fans of the company that are blinded by any loyalty.
And the haters are blinded by hate. What's the difference? Any amount of counter-argument leads to people getting called Nijisanji Defense Force or saying that Nijisanji is paying them to defend Niji. Don't think that only one side has people that refuse to be open minded.
@@maudjito I acknowledge there are those that take it too far, like people talking shit under livers tweets, or people like Flipsie that take any and all oppurtunities to shit on Niji regardless of context. But this hate had to have started somewhere, and it started because of Nijisanji's negligence regardless of your alliance.
@@Tharja-iBW That's not an excuse to make stuff up, lie, or willfully misinterpret stuff in order celebrate in the hate. Fair criticism is fair, but they don't accept any push-back against what they believe happened.
@@maudjito Thing is you have those that push back against things we KNOW happened. Like Doki getting mistreated by insiders (Whether you believe it to be talents or not). Or Niji trying to silence talents they've wronged by pushing a silencing contract onto them with barely any time to review or even get in touch with a lawyer to review it to force them into signing it or they will slander you to "protect their brand". I have my criticisms of certain talents as well, like Millie and Luca's avid defences of the company or Vox saying there is no favouritism (He says as the most popular member in the branch that gets all the perks) I wish I was in a place mentally where I could trust all of the talents as well, but all the things that have come out about them especially some of the male talents that have confirmed sources and backed evidence, I can't in good conscience support them unless I can be 100% sure they aren't bad actors.
@@Tharja-iBW And you have those who push back against people trying to talk sense against things that are malicious interpretations or just wilful ignorance. These people refuse to believe or listen to anything that paints Nijisanji in a lighter tone of black.
What you see as a "cycle of negativity" is just Nijisanji continuing to make actually bad decisions that come at the expense of their Livers and fans. While we haven't seen anything close to Zaion and Selen's mistreatment (which, granted, is hard to surpass in maliciousness), those moments are worth criticizing. There are those who have hated Nijisanji intrinsically, but most take satisfaction from Nijisanji's downfall because it's Nijisanji's own fault and rooting for the positive development of a company that refuses to learn it's lesson is exhausting.
And because more and more livers are leaving the company by themselves, look at Selen/Dokibird for instance, she's doing far better now that she left the company. With Victoria Brightshield, Nijisisters tried to blame "haters" for her graduation and she explained in person that her issue was with management. What Keniisu sees as people being "overly critical" of the company and "fueling negativity" by posting about minor controversies on r/Kurosanji is a consequence of r/Nijisanji censoring any criticism towards the company, which is what r/Kurosanji is built upon.
There really is just one video to watch to see who comprises r/Kurosanji and its that vid of the guy celebrating New Years with Selen and gently caressing his pc monitor. Now apply that to every talent wronged by the company (other than Selen) and thats the whole movement. Why is Niji hated more than every other black company? Because there is a real person whom people had staked a portion of their lives for, that they outwardly wronged.
I was a former r/nijisanji and I also eventually migrated to r/kurosanji and quite honestly a lot of the anti nijisanji chatter started cause how unprofessional in large part Nijisanji was. Its not hate sort of speak but out of spite people just couldn't stop LAUGHING at the absolutely terrible PR. Its like you could say "nijisanji wouldn't dare to do x." and almost out of spite the very next day Nijisanji would make that bad PR meme/joke a reality. Like if Nijisanji didn't make a second turd on the already bad Selen Termination PR notice(Context: to paraphrase, the announcement about how Nijisanji talent Selen Tatsuki's termination would be negligible.") Instead of quieting the critics it only made those with a mild intrest actually want to start digging further. Context: #2: And then on top of that they further inflate the issue with the black screen video claiming talents saw the legal papers meant for "lawyer to lawyer." Creating a a mist of unknown and ineptitude on the side of Nijisanji as only legal teams were suppose to see those papers as they had the talent Selens medical history. That only legal representatives and medical professionals are suppose to see. Added context #3 : Which later we found out they didn't see everything but thats not the original script that Nijisanji told its talents to say. Context #4: Upon this drama people only after all the bad PR from NIJISANJI's side people dove into the termination paper to discover that it wasn't Selen that labled the internal investigation or suggested investigation. That there was "internal bullying" But Nijisanji EN themselves IN THE TERMINATION DOCUMENT. Rapidly things were becoming a situation of how many landmines could one entity step on that they themselves made. And it didn't help that what was Sisters and now called NDF/Nijisanji Defense Force threatened to go to war with the infamous 4Chan declaring at first a doxxing war. Only further turned the vtubing medium against Nijisanji. As if it wasn't already bad these Nijisanji defense force was credited with both bullying ex nijisanji talents and even insiting toxic menhera behavior behind the scenes with even with hololive (The Mano Aloe incident) which in itself is a sort of different story nonetheless it just went to show for many who aren't even fans of nijisanji itself but the medium of vtubing to really lose any good faith in Nijisanji. This caused many to really look and reanalyze how they saw Nijisanji and since the r/nijisanji subreddit also got revealed to be a hijacked subreddit things really started to domino effect. Context 5: r/nijisanji was originally fan made but its cited that Anycolor/Nijisanji siezed the site once the company started growing significantly. And yes any fan made subreddit always has a back door should the ip owner insist on verifying they own the IP/Intellectual property. As well more recently r/Nijisanji and the company has been increasingly desperate to fix their public image. However the spillover of the negative PR kinda nuked any hope clipers and even content creators as well artist have outright disavowed Nijisanji in it whole Dragoons that worked with selen are also included. The latter made Selens b day concert, a tribute point and click for Pomu Rainpuff also now graduated Niji talent, and the lofi remixes of the other talents intro songs. in short or TDLR. The hate or rather harsh critiquing is mostly in part cause Nijisanji was openly willing to burn bridges they overlooked as simply just generic good will.
For those who are like how TF is Hololive connected to this nonsense well Nijisanji JP are connected to at least two Hololive talents one graduated before she even really could get going Aloe, as NDF are sited as egging on her stalker ex bf to doxx her irl info JP side. And its cited the JP fans also drove Yamiyono Moruru to graduate infamously to return as a certain pink hololive talent. The hololive JP drama made many in the vtuber medium to really re evaluate all the past dramas big and small when it came to Nijisanji. And it didn't help that talents that aren't related to either Nijisanji or Hololive started to give their own hot takes as to Nijisanji in general. With a variety of medium indy talents voicing that they either tried to apply to nijisanji or that they flat out are avoiding them. Ironically right around the time Nijisanji reoppened auditions. Nijisanji is in a very precarious situation of they have no clue really what to make of Nijisanji EN at this point as this isn't their 1st take on Nijisanji EN But technically their like 4th and more recently one could argue 5th iteration. (1st : Indonesia, 2nd Hololive Korea, and 3rd India) 4th ( with Nina, Pomu, mysta, and s3len.) As to why I'm calling the current iteration of Hololive EN the 5th. Is its become eeriely apparent that Selen and dragoons were proping up the rest of the talents massively. And the now vacancy has made it very painfully apparent that Dragoons were spear heading likely a lot of the big productions. With Selen going so far as to credit her fans mostly with most of the big projects. As well the artist she commissioned that extended to her gen mates. With a lot of chibi's coming out of a friend from Selen's collaborative projects. Also a mass amount of active subscribers have also left Nijisanji EN at least. So it really does feel like a whole new age/gen has been made with the recent Nijisanji talents. Leaving and not so much coming.
One issue I would have highligthed was how easily Kurosanji was fooled in there crusage for "justice" such as the case with Ryoma, where the sub was all over that he was an abuser before he even debuted. It was a clear case of the fact that Kurosanji are often "blinded by hate"
Sorry about the minor audio issues at some points~ Hopefully you enjoy this video and the insights I gave!
🤫 Also, Get 10% Off Redact Today Using My Code - redact.dev/?affiliateCode=KENIISU
📝 𝗔𝗱𝗱𝗿𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗦𝗼𝗺𝗲 𝗖𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗶𝘀𝗺:
I feel I should address four pieces of feedback as I feel my words and beliefs have been misconstrued or misunderstood by a lot of parties, and I just want to clarify. There was more I could talk about, but it would take me all day to get to every single critique, so I wanted to address some I felt needing clarity.
"𝙏𝙝𝙞𝙨 𝙞𝙨𝙣'𝙩 𝙧𝙚𝙥𝙧𝙚𝙨𝙚𝙣𝙩𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙖𝙡𝙡 𝙤𝙛 𝙧/𝙠𝙪𝙧𝙤𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙟𝙞"
I agree. I wrote in the section about the "internal civil war" as to actually explain that within the subreddit there exists a growing discontent with the way a vocal group of the movement have gone about criticizing Nijisanji, hence the following line - "𝘌𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘱 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘮𝘴 𝘶𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘲𝘶𝘦, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘢𝘬𝘦𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘵 𝘣𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘵𝘰𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘥𝘴 𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯". The intent of this video was to highlight the issues I have with the subreddit (as a lurker myself), and the way in which a lot of members go about criticizing Nijisanji, though of course, while I believe this issues are pervasive and do show up frequently on the subreddit, it is not an indictment of every member or every conversation that occurs there. In fact, as others have pointed out, it can actually be a subreddit which is a relief from some of the toxic positivity that occurs in other subreddits and to discuss the issues of the industry more frankly.
"𝙔𝙤𝙪'𝙧𝙚 𝙙𝙤𝙬𝙣𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙬𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙉𝙞𝙟𝙞𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙟𝙞 𝙙𝙞𝙙."
I purposefully decided not to include a laundry list of Nijisanji's offenses, because it felt redundant when a myriad of videos exist on the subject, by people much more equipped to discuss their issues at an extensive length (I included some good starting points in the description). If you're at all familiar with my content and or my Twitter, I am not one to shy away from criticizing or bashing Nijisanji or its fans which step out of line. It just wasn't the focus of the video, so I only mentioned the primary three big events which led to the backlash against Nijisanji to reach a tipping point. I don't like Nijisanji as a company, and calling me a "Nijisister" is a bit wild given how I've discussed them previously, and continue to do so. I understand not everyone will have this context, but I think also jumping to this conclusion without any context is silly too.
"𝙄𝙩'𝙨 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙝𝙖𝙩𝙚𝙬𝙖𝙩𝙘𝙝𝙞𝙣𝙜."
Hatewatching as I defined it and as most people probably would doesn't mean you continuously watch every single thing a person is doing, it merely means you are following and keeping up with someone or some entity for a reason stemming essentially from hate, whether justified or not.
"𝙒𝙝𝙮 𝙬𝙤𝙪𝙡𝙙 𝙬𝙚 𝙚𝙫𝙚𝙧 𝙥𝙪𝙨𝙝 𝙥𝙤𝙨𝙞𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙞𝙩𝙮 𝙩𝙤𝙬𝙖𝙧𝙙 𝙉𝙞𝙟𝙞𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙟𝙞? 𝙒𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙮𝙤𝙪 𝙨𝙖𝙮𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙖𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙚𝙣𝙙 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙫𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙤?"
I could've been more clear with how I structured this part of the video, admittedly. However, when I mention the positivity message toward the end it's in connection to the previous section of toxicity leaking outside of just the select vocal group of people in places like r/kurosanji and into the broader community, not as a direct call to action to look toward the positive side of Nijisanji. I'm stating that I believe the community has developed, to some extent, a negativity bias which often overshadows a lot of the positives in the community worth celebrating. This negativity bias is exhibited often in r/kurosanji, however is not always the case as they do share positive news there from time to time.
Additionally, a trend I've noticed is that unfortunately some of the hate for Nijisanji does trickle down to its LIVERs and I have seen this happen a fair amount of times which is where the "Be kind to people, but be ruthless to systems" line comes in. It's me saying we shouldn't wish misfortunate on those connected to the company, but instead on the systems at play which allow Nijisanji to be upheld the way it is despite it's severe and continuous issues.
I hope this clear things up - or maybe it doesn't. I was told it wouldn't be worth addressing the feedback, but I felt it was kind of necessary to at least clarify some points which admittedly could've been made clearer so I hope it can be understood.
The r/kurosanji subreddit was created after the official r/nijisanji sub would delete all threads criticizing the company after the Selen incident. Some of the biggest antis there are ex Nijisanji EN fans such as fans of Selen, Pomu, or Nina. Or they were fans of Michi of the former ID branch. Some were fans of Gundou Mirei of the JP main branch.
That's a bit of an understatement considering how people can just flat-out _no longer post_ to r/Nijisanji outside of the official Nijisanji accounts. Like at all.
@@pezzo7089 because you literally cant
all posts got removed and the only thing that sticks are the posts you see now to this day
it's a barren land
and you can also see people with oshis still in niji post about significant niji/talent events in the kurosanji subreddit
This is a great video
Taking 5% of the community and saying that it represents the entire community is an act of bad faith.
To clarify, I don't think this represents the entire community, hence the section where I state the following: "Even within a group that seems united in its critique, there are those who are concerned about the direction the conversation has taken and are working to steer it back towards its original mission."
You should do one on the Nijisister btw. Would be nice
That'll backstab 99% of his friends, which in typical nijitardom fashion would make a lot of sense.
I feel like you missed out on the fact that the talents were involved in these bullying scandals.
I acknowledge that's the case with the line: "Creating a hostile work environment where talents feel bullied, and feel ostracized upon leaving." which was referring to Doki and Zaion, respectively.
@@Keniisu yes but in my opinion failing to mention it explicitly kinda feel like there's a missing context as to why ppl are so angry and relishing every time this company fail. It's not just the mismanagement, the talents themselves are kinda bad hence why to some they want it all to burn.
The pro-anti wars are definitely exhausting. Thank you for your nuanced take on all this! I don’t agree with all your points but I respect the way you handled the topic!
I was fully in agreement with this video up until the clip of Mr underhill 😵💫 I’m not sure if ur jabbing at him or because he’s mentioned the large backlash he received for speaking positively on the livers?
Maybe jabbing? I don't know. But he certainly is not positive. He's the poster boy of toxic positivity. He excuses any of the bad things the livers and the company does, or somehow tries to spin it into them being good things actually. He also accused Dokibird of lying about everything that happened to her and accused Luca Kaneshiro's accuser of fabricating stories about him.
Hello there, I'm a regular poster on r/kurosanji, which I joined shortly after Selen's termination, so I might be able to clarify a couple things. I'll try not to cover things that have already been tackled by you or some comments.
Firstly, it's important to understand that what binds the community together is our dislike of Nijisanji's past and current practices, aaaaand... that's about it. In fact, even this premise could be put into question considering that this sub was initially just r/Nijisanji without the censorship, tho you're mostly correct about what it is now. I can't really generalize any further, because beyond that and being Vtuber fans first and foremost, the community is simply too diverse in what we like, what we want, how we feel about all of it, etc.
You're correct in that some people do revel in Niji's downfall, but others would much rather see them survive and learn from their mistakes for the sake of the livers. There are even some, like me, who don't actively _want_ to see NijiEN fail, but simply came to the conclusion that it will never be reformed, and that its failure is only a matter of time now and a necessary evil both for closure on their misdeeds and for the wellbeing of the remaining livers. For me, the sub is a news source and a space where I can discuss them with other people, which helps me form and adjust my opinions about all things Niji ; but it might not be the same for others, and I have neither the knowledge nor the authority to speak for them.
Same goes for viewership, there are definitely hate-watchers within the community, but as a regular poster I can tell you they're far from being the majority -- from the rest, some only watch clips, maybe a couple livers we still like, and others have stopped all forms of engagement despite our conflicting feelings for the sake of the boycott. I'm of the latter, and believe me I'd love nothing more than to keep watching my oshis as if nothing happened, but it just feels wrong, and I'd rather endure it than to support Niji in any way, shape or form. Ideally I'd want for my oshis to leave so that I can give them my full support again without Niji leeching off of it, but I'll also respect their decision to stay without looking back if that's what they want. Again, I'm just speaking for myself, but you'll find their motives and actions of the others just as diverse as mine.
You made a good point about the vortex of negativity, but you might want to know that we are very much aware of this problem and have already taken steps to combat it. For example, the fact that the sub allows for convos about other corpos was implemented to spread more positive news and discussions. And while it's true that some people did use it for easy "Niji could never" indignation at first, it's become more of a "you do you" type of reaction rather than the general sentiment, and most of us are genuinely appreciative of any and all successes by other corpos and indies. The community has already embraced that r/kurosanji needed to be more than just about Niji for its own good (mostly due to losing hope of ever seeing them improve), so we might as well fully enjoy and discuss what the rest of the Vtuber sphere has to offer in-between actual Niji news.
Also, it's not like this vortex came out of nowhere. I can't exactly claim I'm unbiased, but even without the doom glasses, the amount of Ls Niji collected over the last 1.5 years is objectively alarming. We do try to relay all their screw-ups through the sub, even minor or "petty" ones, but that doesn't mean they all get treated with the same levels of outrage, let alone scrutiny. Besides, some of it might look "petty" to you with an outside perspective, but in some cases the posts you pointed out are about underlying issues within Niji that a lot of us have observed time and again and which deserve to be called out as well, even if they're not as grave or sensational as Zaion's and Selen's terminations.
As for the remainder, even in the case of actual petty criticism, the mods are very careful when deleting posts (understandably so considering the origins and main goal of the sub), always clarifying their reasoning for doing so, and when in doubt, would rather leave the post up for everyone to make their own opinion of it. And the community happily obliges and calls out bad faith posts that add nothing of value or that are downright malicious. Even with the boycott, the vast majority of us still have the livers' best interests at heart, even in spite of our personal feelings towards some of them, in particular those who were involved in these two terminations the most.
Ok admittedly I wasn't planning on my reply being this long at first, but I guess it goes to show why I'm so active in the sub LOL. Anyway, hopefully it gives you additional context about the sub's activity.
@BlaZay Dont worry about it being too long. You made some good points and brought up how varied the sub actually is.
Long story short we will hate on niji
I think there are multiple things that led to r/kurosanji getting big. The obvious ones are the termination of Selen (and to a lesser extent, Zaion), and the burning down of r/Nijisanji. But I also think people realized that the "Nijisanji Defense Force", or better known now as Nijisisters, were a group that actually existed and was something that had to be fought to protect the talents of the company.
Seeing a "fan" community of anonymous people in real time build documents to encourage others to disseminate false information about a former talent in a public smear campaign that didn't originate from an actual organization was fucking wild. The absolute vitriol that these people had for Selen was insane, and I think it really encouraged people to establish a community that not only disliked Nijisanji, but its fanbase.
Now, it seems to be a term used to describe a person who disagrees with a dramatuber's approach
@@fierytigergaming8112If the shoe fits.
I personally have a neutral to low opinion of drama channels in general, but I feel like you did an excellent job explaining and analyzing the issues with the community. Thank you for trying to encourage a more mature and meaningful way of behavior within the community.
you lost me when you used "drama channels", what they do is inform, they tend to click bait yeah, but isnt that in ALL channels? Clickbait is a MUST to grow, people that say is not, they are full of bs. You like it good on you, you dont like it? well keep quiet and move along.
@@AtemerusRhayli Practice what you preach there lil bro. Don't like it? Keep quiet and move along.
@@Toxic_Korgi back at you buddy, but I guess i touched a nerve.
@@AtemerusRhayli I'm not the one whining because someone had a slightly negative opinion about drama channels kid.
@@AtemerusRhayli Drama channels do tend to be extremely clickbait and cringe(subjectively). And I'm allowed to have that opinion, and so is anyone. We're allowed to express our distain and judge channels for being cheap and lowzy no matter how sujective or not it may be. Heck, I'ma watch this video later now all because of this guys comment, to see if it lives up to it, as much as I disagree with all the niji hate and drama train and consider it extremely childish, I still want to expand my knowledge.
Really agree with this video. As someone whos still in the niji community a lot of us do have our criticisms towards it (even if ppl say we dont). Nobody (except crazys which is in every community) cares if ppl dont like niji anymore, its the fact that if you see any positives ur called a bootlicker or a nijisister. It has gone from just criticisms to outright speculation and malice. Take the Ryoma ordeal where ppl called him a abuser for a debut line and called ppl nijisisters for defending him. Then take when Wilson pulled out of Niji GTA and ppl said its bc EN was banned from it, which was far from the truth. Or even recently when YAB doxxed and even drugged niji livers and ppl blamed the staff, when YAB could have done this to more ppl having worked for holo and indies. A lot of things that blow up out of that community rn is just ppl confirming their biases instead of actually trying to fix a problem. Even take when koto returned and some ppl were angry about that. This is to say even as someone whos still in the community I have my gripes, but it doesnt help us solve actual problems going on when ppl make up fake things, or make drama out of nothing. It doesn't help the "good" talents ppl want to "save" it doesn't make the community better in anyway when ppl look at events from other agencys and instead of feeling happiness or joy its "kurosanji could never." Even in the comments really, while I do think theres some crazy niji fans but that could b the same from other vtubers fans as well. Ive seen ppl from both sides get harrassed/ doxxed and I honestly think its really just a vtubing community problem in general sadly. But nonetheless, this video was good and I wouldnt sweat ppl getting mad at u in the comments tbh.
@xhkkal There's crazies in the sub, too. Every community has its share of jackasses who take things too far and become too invested.
@xhkkal I also think most in the niji community would tell people that stuff has become better. And it is very clear that we the audience don't know enough. A lot of people are taking issues from 1 side but rarely reflecting in the other sides of that issue
@@Toxic_Korgi ya i agree i think theres normal ppl who like/dislike niji but ya the crazy vocal minority make things look crazy on both sides tbh.
@@chimosgameclub9765 I think things have gotten better within niji which is why i stick around. Like denauth going to japan before they debuted to b a closer wave and get proper training, Iluna having their 3d models, Ren going to perform in 3d at an upcoming event, more help and staff, which a lot of niji members have been saying they get along with them. Even NIJIEncounter with people complaining that they werent singing original songs in their concerts. However theres still some issues with niji as well like a lot of ppl I see on my timeline r still criticizing too like fans who cared about the second half of the NBA collab, or merch not being more physical. The thing is however I think more ppl r taking issues from the niji side however rather than the other though, which is y a video like this was kind of needed, especially since the person who made it doesnt even like niji. I mean look at the comments, calling such a mild take and saying it was in bad faith. The truth of it all is that if someone has a nuanced take on the matter, theres people who will just not listen to another pov even if that person is on their side. We kind of have to reflect on kurosanji as a community bc its gotten to a point where ppl dont enjoy an event without bringing up niji. When holostars had their 3d, which i might add a lot of niji fans r also holo fans like me, ppl instead of enjoying it made it a numbers game. This new 3 day event that was announced for niji, is met with with ppl being harsh when niji literally hasnt done anything. My point being is that while I see some unsavory ppl in the niji community, the unsavory ppl in kurosanji are not held to the same standard imo. When spreading misinfo its treated as "well its expected from niji" rather than actually saying they were in the wrong.
@@Toxic_Korgi All crazy posts I've seen on that sub are upvoted to the 200s. Where are the people going against the jackasses?
Thank you for the video! It covers a lot of important issues and challenged some preconceptions I had.
I assumed the intense hatred was from ex-fans who felt betrayed and wanted to ‘get back’ at the company. If the frenzy is from those who got involved FOR the controversy and are seeking a nebulous ‘justice,’ then there’s no incentive for them to fact check or chill out.
@@Rudolf_reindeer Yeah, no. There isn't anything straight-up untrue in what he said, but he amplified some problematic aspects of the community and made them out to be bigger problems than they are, or that we left them unaddressed and to spiral out of control. If you take a stroll on the sub, you'll find that the vast majority of us are, in fact, former fans who feel wronged by Niji and want accountability and changes to be made for the sake of the remaining livers. There are some outliers and bad actors, but we made it a sport to call them out, and the mods use our overall feedback to decide whether something should be removed or deserves to stay up for the sake of discussion. It wasn't easy to get there, especially after the sub started gaining traction, but I'm very pleased with our group effort to keep the community steered in the right direction. I invite you to take what he said with a grain of salt and make your own opinion on the matter.
@@BlaZay Thank you for more info!
It's almost comical that kurosanji was once considered a competitor to hololive. Phase connect, and maybe even vshojo, have that title now
cons of having a fresh out of university ceo someone who is too young with no experience running a multinational company, expanded too rapidly, should've slowed down on debuting talents and focused on building a strong management, it's actually quite something that a 28 year old manage to build such a big company, if all else fails he still has alot of years and money to build or rebuild his company again, its actually quite unfair to compare two companies with CEO's that have drastically difference in management experience if you think about it who would have a better grasp of business strategy a CEO who has been in corporate world for years(Yagoo) or a fresh out of the university newbie(riku tazumi), it irks me but its understandable that nijisanji failed to actually became a competitor to hololive i really wish they had a better ceo
People need to remember that no one starts off being an _Anti_ of something unless they had some heavy investment in the first place.
The only ones who would turn into an _Anti_ are the same fans who were devoted enough to financially support them to a large degree. Anyone normal would just move on. So it says a lot about the talent or the company if they somehow bred so much dedicated haters in a short period of time, to the point where a subreddit was formed.
Unfortunately, I don't think you delved deep enough if Niji-_Antis_ are the only thing you found. You somehow missed the other side of the conflict when this underground tribalism has been going on before a majority of the internet even discovered about vTubers.
There are people out there who dedicated their entire lives to ruin the careers of the Holo and Niji talents, just so that they can prove that their company is better. It's only the latter that became more prominent in the eyes of the public because of the mainstream spotlight that took notice.
It's no longer about a group of disgruntled fans, but an attack mob in bringing down others to fuel their own egos.
I agree with most of this, however I would wager that a sizable chunk (not the majority) of those who have become Antis were also the same to be involved in that tribalism prior to Nijisanji’s controversies and merely basking in their downfall, though not as a former fans. Additionally, I think there’s more to be said about the idea of Antis existing for any of these agencies, however I felt that Kurosanji was a particularly notable and sizable subset worth exploring on its own.
@@Keniisu I think you should dive into how misogyny interacts with the hatred of Nijisanji. It's a critical piece of the puzzle.
@@Keniisu I do agree. That's what my second paragraph was about.
That's why I believe that Holo-Antis and Niji-Antis have been trying to one-up the other on who's better at bringing down the other company, but it's only the actions of latter that are easily available because of various English media coverage.
This tribalism, this feud between these two groups is nothing short of disgusting.
@@yazayazaaiaiai749 Misogyny?
If you go into the subreddit you will see more hatred for the favoritism given to male livers like Vox and Hex than anything else.
Alongside absolute support for Doki, Mint, Scarle, Rosemi, Michi, etc.
@@yazayazaaiaiai749 dude, I have been in that sub since February and have never seen a single post of comment that is blatantly misogynistic. The clowned more on the male Lovers while showing love to the current and ex female lovers of nijisanji
Yup. At first the breakaway happened because Nijisanji turned their subreddit into a laughable "pristine" wasteland. Still fresh from the Selen incident, r/kurosanji had a direction and goal in mind.
Now that the actual situation has simmered down and we're just dealing with lighter day to day but still troubling occurrences within Nijisanji, some have decided they need to continue with absolute malicious intent.
I use a term there frequently, _healthy skepticism_ , a necessity due to the rise of bad actors who are stirring the pot for no reason. Comments often echo the same sentiment a bajillion times over different threads, and at this point there's little value in engaging with the random topics being brought up lately.
As one of the active posters back in the subreddit's heyday that shaped opinions, combated misinformation, and left that sub after the Q4 report (and poor subreddit management), this video was a surface-level perspective and analysis of the subreddit that kind of misses some of the nuances like /vt/ culture. I'll give it credit for trying to summarize the situation because yeah, it's a rabbit-hole. Still, there were definitely some pointers that many in the comments here and that subreddit have pointed out. 80% of the video felt like a rehash but your commentary at the end was nice, it's usually unspoken or never talked about in public, so props for doing that.
Personally, I don't think you're going to enrage normal people, it's a fair take to have albeit hyperbolic. I kind of understand your anxiety about this subreddit's drama scope being open to other agencies. The reason for doing that for "positivity" from the mods is such absolute bullshit, in my opinion. There's a lot of bad faith posts there after the selen drama content dried up and misinformation did go viral there, though they're trying to fix that in a reactionary sense instead of proactively.
Anyways, r/Kurosanji is a nice symbol for Vtuber managers to just not fuck up in a PR way. The Vtuber industry can thank Kurosanji for creating such a toxic mess that a community is created as a response. It's so easy for incompetent managers and incompetent PR people to abuse their positions of power against some people. See that place as a warning sign for your stupid shit to go viral lol. They're clearly not closing up shop, might as well adjust to the drama-hungry vtuber watchers.
Also, the subreddit was a critical and smart subreddit when it was smaller. Once it got bigger, too many uninformed opinions and stupid users came by. It's a miracle the subreddit hasn't imploded yet but I think it'll die from lack of content, there's just nothing recently spicy to talk about or worth talking about anyways... well at least not yet. Doubt something as magnificent as the Kurosanji dumpster fire will happen again in the Vtuber scene, having a weeks-months long drama like that is not normal.
i could see it transforming into basically an aggregate of news for the ex-talents
While I admit there's more idiots around the sub than it was earlier, it's not as terrible as you have painted out
@@Travelling_Heart15a lot of them are getting call out lately after the Ryoma incident. I hope it would never happen again.
@@esense9602 the Ryoma disaster was a period of extreme shame for the SUbReddit and a wake up for the sub to held of their hatred
@@Travelling_Heart15 I almost jump to it but I did research first then it turns out that they lack of evidence against Ryouma so I just shut up and wait for the evidence. But well, they're wrong and they just use the subbreddit to incite hatred.
Very interesting video. Content was fantastic, I think we need to be careful when we start "crying wolf" because it lessens the impact of things that are legitimately concerning and are actual problems. Worrying over incredibly small things, just turns away people who are otherwise neutral, if a community just gets seen as 'cry wolf children', as it were. Thank you for touching on this, as someone who has been criticial of the company in the past. I do think we need to pick and choose our battles. Love the editing as well.
This feels very shallow ngl. Like, you throw out a lot of quite big claims without really much proof but mostly cherrypicked posts.
Claiming that kurosanji is trying to deplatform/cancel existing members: Sorry, do we have a different understanding of what deplatforming is? The default mode for kurosanji in the case of a dislike talent is to 'dont care' since they've mostly lost hope for any change. I have yet to see a single post there that calls to mass-report channels which is what deplatforming usually entails. So, Proof?
Celebrating every misstep nijisanji makes: I guess meming is celebrating now? It is true that kurosanji does make fun of the talents and their dumb statements and that it has made it so that se misteps are more remembered than others, but it does actually help cataloguing them. In addition, are we not allowed to call them out? Its not just one misstep every once in a while followed by good things, its a pattern of behaviour then.
That the subreddit speaks for all and the cycle of cynisicm: Almost every single person who has some knowledge of vtubing, KNOWS that nijisanji is trash. To say that this is solely due to kurosanji would be naive or extremely bad faith. Charlie/Penguinz has the biggest video on this topic and he doesnt once mention kurosanji, neither does Mutahar. They found the story and reported on it and kurosanji had nothing to do with it. As strange as it sounds; people can come to the same conclusion when given the same info.
The wide scale of toxicity can trickle down? I would like to see some proof of this. Not sure what you mean by this, the sub has mostly been people going into, rather than out of. There has been an entire discussion on how to minimize harrasement towards the sisters while still posting their delusions. The rule has mostly been: laugh but dont engage. Are they not allowed to discuss anything then?
You say that since the sub also talks about other agencies this toxicity also goes over there and has done so already. To be an asshole about it: Proof? Again, are we not allowed to call people out?
Focus on negativity can and has overshadowed the positive. Again, Proof? If you want to see how that actually looks like, I invite you coordially to 4chan (slut shaming, calling vtubers whores both male and female, and a whole array of colourful insults). At least posts on kurosanji are curtailed a bit and people do hold others accountable there.
10:03-10:30 Ironic. I legit didnt get past this part without laughing.
The ending is weird my dude and I feel like you didnt know how to end it. Indeed, you can lose sight of constructive criticism if you only focus on the negatives. Like say for example like you are doing with this video? Where are the positive posts on kurosanji? I know they exist so why not bring them up since we're talking about positivity so much? If you want to see how that looks, look at the vtuber subreddit. Nothing but thinly veiled selfpromotion and 'positivity'. Serious discussion gtfo.
Why are you bringing up Brooks here? We need to be kind to people but ruthless to systems. You do understand that nijisanji is the way it is BECAUSE of said people, right?
Finally: I find it a bit strange that many of the criticisms you levy against kurosanji are the same as the sisters do. Being critical? Oh, thats toxic. Calling things out? Oh, you're just jumping on the bandwagon. Saying Nijisanji is doing a bad thing? Oh, thats not really constructive criticism.
Nice
what positivity can we expect from nijishills really? ndf have doxed holo fans/holo members in jp/id/en and holostars en before, even causing mano aloe to graduate and multiple lawsuits for defamation/slander. the fact that company has fostered those kinds of fans is everything vs a rambling mess of a subreddit which has long overstayed it's welcome. the subreddit is an interesting study in people trying to find stuff where there's not much left vs targeted campaigns by ndf shills.
i know what i find worse, i know what i find unforgivable, one weaksauce subreddit or targeted harrassment through twitter/discord and other backchannels?
First you need to stop lumping people together.
@@maudjitosecond kurosanji is not a completely hatesub
@@Travelling_Heart15 Then show me people going against the lying scumbags trying to paint Nijisanji in a bad light all the ways they can.
@@maudjitoYour fellow Nijisisters made a hit list dedicated to going after anyone who criticized Nijisanji.
@@michaelhall736 They're as deranged as that subreddit. I'm not part of such thing.
One issue I would have highligthed was how easily Kurosanji was fooled in there crusage for "justice" such as the case with Ryoma, where the sub was all over that he was an abuser before he even debuted. It was a clear case of the fact that Kurosanji are often "blinded by hate".
IMO its more like a strong "bias" that forces Nijisanji's hand.
Dunking on and celebrating downfalls take priority over truth.
@@chimosgameclub9765 yeah if by fooled you mean got debunked and was multiple times said to be unconfirmed but hey throw extremes out there
There were a significant amount of people pushing back on the Ryoma issue at the time in the subreddit. Not everyone was jumping on the bandwagon, and there were quite a few comments/posts telling people to not go crazy off unverified information.
@thebudgetsupport Maybe with that scenario, but the sub still fully accepted rumors as facts for months on end. I still remember them attacking Enna because someone took comments she made about someone obsessed with her virginity and claimed she was attacking Niji critics. They were quite toxic and actively blamed her even after it was debunked.
This rabbit hole is something else! The toxicity! ಠ_ಠ
Is this secretly Lextorias??
So glad ur back on the grind keni! Hopefully this is the first of many more videos to come ❤ loving how clean this video is. Leaving a comment for the algorithm.
Thank you Rima 🙏
Oh damn, Rima's here. Love your videos!
@@rimaevenstar The CatFox woman has spoken!
Femboy ahhhhhhh you're so cute!!!!!!!
Seems kinda bad faith. Like you can pick out posts like the dog and cat one, but im sure if you actually go in there youd see comments saying that its non drama or people making some jokes. Are there some toxic weirdos? For sure. Name a community without toxic weirdos. But kurosanji nips anyone actually harassing anybody in the bud so if the worse thing they have is some schizo posts about some non issues, i dont see an issue.
Positives, as few as there have been, are for sure rarely posted, but thats kinda the point. We dont want Niji to be in a positive light right now. If Niji is seen positively, people will want to join which could lead to another Zaion or Selen. Especially since they cant even guarantee a huge growth since they dont give any shit at all about their newest gens.
At the end of the day the sub was made because the og got shut down and twitter was full of sisters trying to claim the most outrageous things. We dont love to hate niji. We want the livers(the ones who arent actual shit people like Vox snd Luka) to be safe. If Niji gets their shit together and makes up for the horrible things, then we would be happy. If they close EN, then thats that. But acting like the sub is for rage baity nonsense is really bad faith
5 minutes in and all i know is kurosanji is a reddit and also the definition of a bunch of words yikes
I think you have taken the subreddit out of context a bit. r/kurosanji is just like any other community where you will find the whole spectrum of personality types. I have seen those who genuinely want positive change to the company, those who want it's downfall, and everything in-between. Sure you can call it toxic if you want too, and some of it certainly is, but even the r/Hololive has had its incredibly toxic periods (they once got their own subreddit locked because a new gen of Holostars debuted), and they are supposedly winning. That is just the nature of the internet. Also... lets face facts here... when to comes to AnyColor as a company... we are well passed the, "They certainly have their flaws and problems" stage. What they did to some of their livers may not have only been malicious, but some of it might have even been illegal - even under Japanese law. I don't know about anyone else, but when a company crosses legal red lines, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to take the gloves off if you will.
Good video, and I think you said a lot of what needed to be said. R/kurosanji was started with good and noble intentions, but lately it often feels like it's nitpicking rather nothing burger issues and amplifying them beyond what is necessary. It also feeds into a cycle of negativity where the NDF also gets reflexively more toxic in their rhetoric. That said, it's worth noting that Nijisanji's refusal to listen to fan's input and silence voices on their official channels is what gives rise to places like r/kurosanji in the first place.
If there is one missing context to add it is this: r/kurosanji was only created and became popularized because r/nijisanji perma banned its users, sometimes for extremely minor critiques, and shut its sub down to not allow any discussion. They had months to openly addressed community concerns and manage their community, but they chose to quietly delete all "controversial" posts and send cease and desist letter to Raziel to silence her instead.
This led to r/kurosanji being the only sub where people can discuss the problematic issues surrounding Nijisanji. I would put the blame on the company over its ex-fans, Nijisanji got to do better and I have lost all hopes a long time ago so I am tuned out of this.
Not true whatsoever. People got banned for breaking rules and with rules I mean posting hateful messages, the same happened on kurosanji as well. Nazi edits, holocaust edits, gun to the head of livers, I've seen and reported it all to reddit in the past with nothing being done. This subreddit is a breeding ground for hate. Imagine sitting over here defending a fucking groomer for writing a defamation doc that tries to slander someone with 0 evidence.
Funnily enough i think i've occasionally seen some posts asking about stream schedules and things like that because after looking up r/nijisanji the first result was r/kurosanji due to the former being nuked so they thought kurosanji was the official sub.
@@bonogiamboni4830the people in kurosanji care more about the talents than niji does
@@Travelling_Heart15 Then maybe let them make their own decisions and stop trying to make them leave when they don't need or even want to leave. If you actually cared about them, you would stop constantly complaining about the job they love and the company they choose to be in. Personally, I love all the Niji livers, but unless there is a major, MAJOR concern, I am quiet about it on social media. If you wanted to actually help them, you would support them in any decision that they make, including staying right where they are.
@@evapunk522 wanting them to get out of niji is caring about them and wish to support them, if they don't leave niji and we just support them as is, there will be someone who is successful in their attempt to unalive themselves in niji, we don't want that to happend, there's more than 2 livers that have tried that in niji, their decision is already clouded by their feelings of inferiority cultivated by niji management, doki, michi, mint, Matara, and many other ex liver all felt that their former success was not their own efforts but because of nijisanji when in fact it was the other way around, wanting them to leave is the way to support them.
As an active participant of kurosanji most of what you discussed is true and accurate. However i do have two problems:
1. While there are no posts of positives in regards to Nijisanji, there are plenty of posts that are positive or celebrate the achievements of other vtubers and vtuber companies. So its not entirely a negative spotlight on the vtubing community. (Though there are people that try to push that extreme negativity.)
2. Using the dog and cat collab post as a point towards posts that are outwardly absurd is a bit of an unpopular opinion in my view. Majority of Kurosanji felt that it was an accurate post that showcased Nijisanji's use of favoritism towards talents.
Everything is made to dunk on Nijisanji. I see.
When I’m in a hateboner competition and my opponent is Falseeyed
(I’m cooked)
Nah, you'd win cuz you're a nijisistard.
I joined r/Kurosanji near the beginning of its creation as a way to keep up with the misdeeds of Nijisanji and some of its talents. I saw people breaking down and talking about narratives that were possible but were all under the guise that they were just possible narratives, not fact.
I will admit at the time I was extremely irritated at Nijisanji and some of its talents because I had to watch as Sayu/Zaion was attacked and lambasted by Nijisanji fans for lies that Niji AND some of its talents told in order to frame her as a bad actor. So when Nijisanji got caught in a shitstorm as well as some of the talents that attacked Selen and Zaion I jumped at that shit like a feral dog because I wanted revenge. But that shitstorm made the people that were already fans into fanboys/girls and later into toxic fans that are so defensive they make up lies in order to either attack you or defend their husbando or waifu.
Just the other day a guy accused me of pushing left wing politics in nijisanji liver unofficial discords and even pushing it in Livers streams, the only 2 places where that is against the rules to do so and I'm still somehow not banned, terrific logic.
It's just a matter of hate breeding hate breeding hate.
People that were already fans of Nijisanji are now super fans that won't hear any criticism or won't listen to reason when people try to argue that the people that Nijisanji did wrong deserved it.
So while there is toxicity on both sides, it's only the fans of the company that are blinded by any loyalty.
And the haters are blinded by hate. What's the difference?
Any amount of counter-argument leads to people getting called Nijisanji Defense Force or saying that Nijisanji is paying them to defend Niji.
Don't think that only one side has people that refuse to be open minded.
@@maudjito I acknowledge there are those that take it too far, like people talking shit under livers tweets, or people like Flipsie that take any and all oppurtunities to shit on Niji regardless of context.
But this hate had to have started somewhere, and it started because of Nijisanji's negligence regardless of your alliance.
@@Tharja-iBW That's not an excuse to make stuff up, lie, or willfully misinterpret stuff in order celebrate in the hate.
Fair criticism is fair, but they don't accept any push-back against what they believe happened.
@@maudjito Thing is you have those that push back against things we KNOW happened. Like Doki getting mistreated by insiders (Whether you believe it to be talents or not).
Or Niji trying to silence talents they've wronged by pushing a silencing contract onto them with barely any time to review or even get in touch with a lawyer to review it to force them into signing it or they will slander you to "protect their brand".
I have my criticisms of certain talents as well, like Millie and Luca's avid defences of the company or Vox saying there is no favouritism (He says as the most popular member in the branch that gets all the perks)
I wish I was in a place mentally where I could trust all of the talents as well, but all the things that have come out about them especially some of the male talents that have confirmed sources and backed evidence, I can't in good conscience support them unless I can be 100% sure they aren't bad actors.
@@Tharja-iBW And you have those who push back against people trying to talk sense against things that are malicious interpretations or just wilful ignorance. These people refuse to believe or listen to anything that paints Nijisanji in a lighter tone of black.
I still hate nijisanji because they haven't done anything to redeem themselves yet
@@daisukeniwa402645 I mean you gotta think about it if they do try, they'll just get assed on by the antis alot
What you see as a "cycle of negativity" is just Nijisanji continuing to make actually bad decisions that come at the expense of their Livers and fans. While we haven't seen anything close to Zaion and Selen's mistreatment (which, granted, is hard to surpass in maliciousness), those moments are worth criticizing. There are those who have hated Nijisanji intrinsically, but most take satisfaction from Nijisanji's downfall because it's Nijisanji's own fault and rooting for the positive development of a company that refuses to learn it's lesson is exhausting.
And because more and more livers are leaving the company by themselves, look at Selen/Dokibird for instance, she's doing far better now that she left the company. With Victoria Brightshield, Nijisisters tried to blame "haters" for her graduation and she explained in person that her issue was with management.
What Keniisu sees as people being "overly critical" of the company and "fueling negativity" by posting about minor controversies on r/Kurosanji is a consequence of r/Nijisanji censoring any criticism towards the company, which is what r/Kurosanji is built upon.
There really is just one video to watch to see who comprises r/Kurosanji and its that vid of the guy celebrating New Years with Selen and gently caressing his pc monitor. Now apply that to every talent wronged by the company (other than Selen) and thats the whole movement. Why is Niji hated more than every other black company? Because there is a real person whom people had staked a portion of their lives for, that they outwardly wronged.
I was a former r/nijisanji and I also eventually migrated to r/kurosanji and quite honestly a lot of the anti nijisanji chatter started cause how unprofessional in large part Nijisanji was. Its not hate sort of speak but out of spite people just couldn't stop LAUGHING at the absolutely terrible PR. Its like you could say "nijisanji wouldn't dare to do x." and almost out of spite the very next day Nijisanji would make that bad PR meme/joke a reality. Like if Nijisanji didn't make a second turd on the already bad Selen Termination PR notice(Context: to paraphrase, the announcement about how Nijisanji talent Selen Tatsuki's termination would be negligible.") Instead of quieting the critics it only made those with a mild intrest actually want to start digging further.
Context: #2: And then on top of that they further inflate the issue with the black screen video claiming talents saw the legal papers meant for "lawyer to lawyer." Creating a a mist of unknown and ineptitude on the side of Nijisanji as only legal teams were suppose to see those papers as they had the talent Selens medical history. That only legal representatives and medical professionals are suppose to see.
Added context #3 : Which later we found out they didn't see everything but thats not the original script that Nijisanji told its talents to say.
Context #4: Upon this drama people only after all the bad PR from NIJISANJI's side people dove into the termination paper to discover that it wasn't Selen that labled the internal investigation or suggested investigation. That there was "internal bullying" But Nijisanji EN themselves IN THE TERMINATION DOCUMENT.
Rapidly things were becoming a situation of how many landmines could one entity step on that they themselves made.
And it didn't help that what was Sisters and now called NDF/Nijisanji Defense Force threatened to go to war with the infamous 4Chan declaring at first a doxxing war. Only further turned the vtubing medium against Nijisanji. As if it wasn't already bad these Nijisanji defense force was credited with both bullying ex nijisanji talents and even insiting toxic menhera behavior behind the scenes with even with hololive (The Mano Aloe incident) which in itself is a sort of different story nonetheless it just went to show for many who aren't even fans of nijisanji itself but the medium of vtubing to really lose any good faith in Nijisanji. This caused many to really look and reanalyze how they saw Nijisanji and since the r/nijisanji subreddit also got revealed to be a hijacked subreddit things really started to domino effect.
Context 5: r/nijisanji was originally fan made but its cited that Anycolor/Nijisanji siezed the site once the company started growing significantly. And yes any fan made subreddit always has a back door should the ip owner insist on verifying they own the IP/Intellectual property.
As well more recently r/Nijisanji and the company has been increasingly desperate to fix their public image. However the spillover of the negative PR kinda nuked any hope clipers and even content creators as well artist have outright disavowed Nijisanji in it whole Dragoons that worked with selen are also included. The latter made Selens b day concert, a tribute point and click for Pomu Rainpuff also now graduated Niji talent, and the lofi remixes of the other talents intro songs.
in short or TDLR. The hate or rather harsh critiquing is mostly in part cause Nijisanji was openly willing to burn bridges they overlooked as simply just generic good will.
For those who are like how TF is Hololive connected to this nonsense well Nijisanji JP are connected to at least two Hololive talents one graduated before she even really could get going Aloe, as NDF are sited as egging on her stalker ex bf to doxx her irl info JP side. And its cited the JP fans also drove Yamiyono Moruru to graduate infamously to return as a certain pink hololive talent. The hololive JP drama made many in the vtuber medium to really re evaluate all the past dramas big and small when it came to Nijisanji. And it didn't help that talents that aren't related to either Nijisanji or Hololive started to give their own hot takes as to Nijisanji in general. With a variety of medium indy talents voicing that they either tried to apply to nijisanji or that they flat out are avoiding them. Ironically right around the time Nijisanji reoppened auditions. Nijisanji is in a very precarious situation of they have no clue really what to make of Nijisanji EN at this point as this isn't their 1st take on Nijisanji EN
But technically their like 4th and more recently one could argue 5th iteration. (1st : Indonesia, 2nd Hololive Korea, and 3rd India) 4th ( with Nina, Pomu, mysta, and s3len.) As to why I'm calling the current iteration of Hololive EN the 5th. Is its become eeriely apparent that Selen and dragoons were proping up the rest of the talents massively. And the now vacancy has made it very painfully apparent that Dragoons were spear heading likely a lot of the big productions. With Selen going so far as to credit her fans mostly with most of the big projects. As well the artist she commissioned that extended to her gen mates. With a lot of chibi's coming out of a friend from Selen's collaborative projects.
Also a mass amount of active subscribers have also left Nijisanji EN at least. So it really does feel like a whole new age/gen has been made with the recent Nijisanji talents. Leaving and not so much coming.
Thank you for this video, kurosanji people are the weirdest the way they make theories about everything is so weird
It's just amazing to me how badly Niji has fucked themselves over
A cesspool of toxicity.
@@maudjito in my opinion, it's not a form of harassment
@@CannonGerbil I called them toxic, not harassers.
So are your NDF cult.
@@maudjito in my opinion it's not a form of toxicity
@@michaelhall736 I'm not part of such a thing
I feel slightly less crazy knowing I'm not the only person off-put by that subreddit
One word. Yacht.
Or race horse.
Why should I be kind to people? When they weren't kind selen/dokibird
Sometimes reality has a bias.
One of my favorite subreddit, full of people of culture
One issue I would have highligthed was how easily Kurosanji was fooled in there crusage for "justice" such as the case with Ryoma, where the sub was all over that he was an abuser before he even debuted. It was a clear case of the fact that Kurosanji are often "blinded by hate"