Bandsaw Update, Awesome Gift from a Viewer and CNC Worksurface Update (Random Shop Stuff 23)
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
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Follow me on Instagram: / marius.hornberger
A quick video about a shop update and unboxing an awesome gift from a viewer.
Video links mentioned
Bandsaw Upgrade: • 3D-printed Pulley for ...
CNC clamping system: • A QUICK to use Clampin...
Router bit: www.fraisertoo...
Enjoy the video!
#MariusHornberger
Thanks Jordan for the wonderful gift!
er hat dir Gift gegeben? ☠️
@Jordan Ludusan excellent craftsmanship bro, you're very talented.
Douggernaut84 you have achieved Comedy
@@baxterboy23thank you!!
My pleasure! Thank you! 😊
I've been watching you for years. Great craftsmanship as always. I'm on my way to becoming a motorsport mechanic.
Had exactly the same problem with the VFD. Was solved by using a Sinus-Filter between the drive and the motor which is smoothing the output of the VFD. If you want, I can give you the contact to the producer of this filter (located here in Solingen)
Greetz
@der Küstendrechsler I am deeply interested in any kind of information you could provide using a VFD and a sinus filter. I've been trying to make a 380v 3 phases work on a 240v single phase... and I am getting a lot of noise for a poor result. Thanks for your help.
@@Denis-vk4vg I also drive a 380v 3 phase with the VFD and sinus filter combination.
I only can direct you via email to the company who helped me.
I would like to give a round of applause to Jordan well done fantastic job the quality is very high you should be very proud of your work
Thank you, I try to do the best I can, even though I'm 19
@1:00 the german train (ICE) sounds funny, when it starts, too...
I like that you quote the manual about setting the VFD frequency. As if you'd ever read the manual.
That was my first real lesson I learned 50 years ago! Measure twice and cut once!
I really enjoy these small update videos - any content from you are good content 😊
I would love to buy a replica of that frame from Jordan, it's absolutely fantastic... The best i've seen !
In Russia people say - measure 7 times, cut once!
Great gift!
Might be related to how vodka compares to beer ... :-D
@@a0flj0 Proportion of consumption of vodka :D
From a New Zealander's perspective Marius embodies all that is good about being German.
Oh! I was thinking that from a New Zealander's perspective all that Marius does is upside down :-D
Those gifts are beautiful. The scrolls work on your name is very impressive
Hello Marius, I have had the issue of factory setting with quite some (recycled) VFDs. Typically, there is a menue setting like "Standard" and "Expert" where the "Expert" menue gives you access to all parameters of the VFD. Depending on the manual you have, the code for the "Expert" setting and a potential password are not mentioned in there. Up to now, I alwas found a full version of the manual on the web including the required info.
regards Matthias
Bottom trim @ 4:23 looks like he cut three times already and it is still too short
I thought that he missed that detail too.
Best of luck and best contents
M.r. Hornberger your life gift is most definitely WOOD, AWSOME SKILLS!
I've always wanted to get into wood working, how long have you been at it?
And am curious what would be a ballpark
Estimate of $cost for the equipment you've acquired over your career?
Hello Marius. Love your work. You have great skills. Good luck. Love from india 🙏🇮🇳
Hi Marius, cool gift from Jordan. I'm sure you will get there soon. TFS,G :)
Top T-Shirt.
Video IDEA: I have been watching some of your old videos. Some times you mention using SketchUp. A video on how you get your paper printer to print a 1 to 1 % for cutting out parts would be good to know.
I just use the big print program from Matthias Wandel
A LC parallel circuit per wire would serve as blocking filter for the PWM noise. Or PWM frequency wobbling.
How's university going? you're managing quite a bit of content recently is that because of COVID and being at home?
usually you can set your access level on the vfd, right now it sounds like it has been set to "basic", which only allows for things like output voltage, max/min frequency etc. You should still be able to change the access level in the settings, and then be able to access all the features!
Thanks for the update Marius!
The VFD slows down everything.
Ain't VFDs meant to do exactly that ...? So 'mission accomplished' I'd say 😂
Perfect work
Funny gift :) Took me a sec to figure out the frame but duhh!!
Hi Marius. It has been 3 years since you made your big dust collector. If you do a Random Shop Stuff 24, could you please give an update on how it's holding up? I recently rewatched the building of it, and saw the mean comments about MDF and your old big dust collector. Just wondering. Thank you for the videos! Really awesome! 👍
Excellent thanks
In estonia we measure 9 times and cut one time. In germany looks like things are different :D
So it's an invariable variable frequency device.
I cut it twice and its still too short !
... but only on one end.
If you remake 3D printed clamps, you could color code for the bolt lengths
There are frequency inverters with sinus output which is quieter, a manufacturer I know of is NFO Drives.
I was going to send you some tools last year but you never responded to my email
may be, I missed something, but: why do you not use an MDF wasteplate directly on the metal bed? why the plywood in between (wasting Z-height)?
When I clamp in MDF slots they fely quite a bit. Plywood is stronger and better for clamping against
Thanks for the video.
Awesome gift :-)
Looks like the Isacon/askpower Hy02d223b (the same code as the Huanyang drive)
Keen to see what VFD you get.
I have heard of hidden parameters with the huanyang, so it might also be the same with the Isacon/askpower drive.
I don't have any whining with my VFD, nor with the Huanyang I had on the metal bandsaw previously.
I roughly fabricated a metal cabinet for the inverter cabinet and its bolted to the machine, and the earth is also bolted to
the cabinet to avoid trying to cram two earths in the terminal.
Have you tried any tests with the VFD inside a metal cabinet?
Tom
Why should a metal cabinet help? The motor produces the noise
@@MariusHornberger Hi Marius
From what I've read the noise can be much reduced by having a metal cabinet and suitable shielded cable .
Practicalmachinist.com, if you haven't been on it already, is a very good forum to read archives concerning VFD's.
Here's a thread for example...
www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-and-vfd/vfd-high-pitch-tone-329454/
Presuming you would build a metal fireproof and dust enclosure for it anyway , so worth a shot if your wanting to install a VFD for the brake or variable speed.
I had a pot installed on the Huanyang for cutting plastics with the saw,
but the VFD kept tripping out and needed a master reset , done by unplugging the front panel ribbon cables out.
Make sure to let the power drain from the VFD for quite some time before touching anything to let those massive capacitors bleed off, and a parameter reset to be on the safe side.
Tom
Super Impressed by you skill! But i do have a question before you had inventibles cnc and now you changed to a different cnc router. My question is the clamps you used on the inventibles with the dog legs are you adding that to this cnc? If not why not? and if i am making a spoil board for my cnc should i use t slots or dog legs ?
I don't plan on using the old clamps on the new CNC. But I want a similar clamp that works with the T-slots. But I didn't get around to design one
try using some chokes or toroids to just not propagate the signal noise to the motor
exactly the same issue for some switch mode power supplies but the noise is electronic one. The question in the end is the same : can one change the frequency?
Nice presents! Seems like a lot of work on the CNC table. Isn’t plywood with T grooves and flatten enough? It’s only a CNC base that will get cut into anyway, right?
Hello Marius,
the reason for the low PWM frequency on the vfd, is because the output stage (IGBT module) is most efficient at low frequencies.
high efficiency = lower waste heat that the vfd has to deal with = less cooling required = cheaper.
Be aware that if you increase the PWM frequency (sometimes called modulation frequency) the efficiency will drop. Therefore the internal temperature will rise.
The temperature load capacity is determined by the cooling solution, usually a simple heatsink.
I don't know this vfd brand specifically, but european made vfd's usually switch off around 90-95 degrees celsius. If this happens they will report an temperature error.
The error is resettable, it normally won't harm the vfd at all, just let it cool off and continue.
When sizing vfd's for use at inaudible frequencies 12khz+ the manufacturer sometimes has derating charts.
It is not uncommon in the industry, to oversize vfd's with one or even 2 sizes, if they are to operate at high PWM frequency or high load.
But all is not lost, that the vfd power rating is specified as continuous use(called S1 duty), not intermittent. At least this is the case in EU.
As quite a few use cases in practice are intermittent, the vfd can usually run with overload for short durations. As long as the average power is below the power rating.
Good luck.
High frequencies are mostly problem for the induction motor, due to eddy currents.
@@teslakovalaborator
The eddy current in the motor has nothing to do with the switching frequency of the IGBT's.
@@teslakovalaborator
In my humble opinion, inefficiencies in the IGBT due to higher switching losses @ 8khz and above, is the main reason to oversize vfd's, if you want the motor to be quite.
Eddy currents would affect motor efficiency. At the vfd's current limit, you would simply get less torque from the motor than expected.
if you want to get really nerdy about it, there are good application notes on calculation such things.
Here is one for example: www.dynexsemi.com/Portals/0/assets/downloads/DNX_AN6156.pdf
Why is there a part of the frame missing?
It's part of the joke, of measuring things right before cutting.
Musst wohl mal wieder Deine Werkstatt aufräumen... 😂
Hello , which CAM software are you using with this CNC?
Hi Marius
First of all, I love your work and have often been in awe of the quality of your workmanship.
However, experience prompts me to wonder if I might offer a little help with the ratios of your bandsaw drive. I understand that you might want to drive it at a lower speed so that you can cut other materials such as steel.
A problem will arise when you run the motor at a lower speed, but still expect to use the same power as at full speed.
Your motor is a “totally enclosed fan cooled” construction. Because of the way its fan works, as you slow the motor, you significantly reduce the cooling effect. If you run at, say half speed, the cooling effect would be less than a quarter. The motor internal temperature will rise, and eventually result in a burn out - especially since you’ll be cutting much more slowly.
A practical solution would be to roughly halve the diameter of the motor pulley, and increase the “full speed” setting on the VFD to perhaps 100Hz or even 120 Hz. The outcome of this is that for normal cutting you’d be running the saw at the normal cutting speed, but with the motor at perhaps twice its normal speed. This is not normally a problem with that kind of induction motor. The saw will only consume the same amount of power as it uses normally, so that will be OK. (Some motor manufacturers publish data about safe maximum speeds)
When you cut metals, you can then reduce the motor speed to the normal frequency (is it 50Hz or 60 Hz in Germany?) and still have the normal amount of power available, without any overheating of the motor.
I used this kind of solution many times in industry to achieve usable turn-down on a range of industrial machines
Happy to discuss further if you like,
Hope this helps - Kind regards
Hi Pete,
thanks for your thoughts!
I'm aware of the heat issue at low speeds. I don't plan on using the saw very much at low speeds and if I do only for a few minutes. But I'll make some heat tests before using so I know when the motor needs a cool down
@@MariusHornberger Thanks for your reply Marius. All the best!
Moin Marius,
beim abplanen der Siebdruck 7:43 fiel mir auf das die Maschine leicht in Y-Richtung wippt, keine Ahnung ob das relevant is, wollts nur anbringen.
Hoffe gibt bald wieder mwhr Videos von dir. 👍
Stimmt, gutes Auge. Die Spindel ist noch nicht wieder ausgereicht. War aber für das erste abplanen in Ordnung
First to view and comment. Thanks for the update on the band saw. Looking forward to the possible fix for the motor starting torque problem and now noise issue :o( I love the plaque. It's kind of a "do as I say not as I do" reminder.
Hey Marius if you need a Programm to change the settings can you please let me know what kind of VFD this is. I may be able to help you in that regard because i know some people who can help adjust these settings ( i have programmed machines using VFDs and other controllers)
Connect some filters
Me measuring 10 times, but still get it wrong...
Why cut the MDF into strips? Why not glue it on as a one big piece then CNC the slots back in?
Strips are easier to clamp down
Ein Freund bekommt demnächst denselben Frästisch un hat eine ähnliche Absaugung. Du hast eine Adapter zwischen Fräase und Absaugung. Ich soll für meinen FReund so eine drucken. Kann ich irgendwo das File dazu finden? auf thingiverse finde ich es nicht. Übrigens; Geniale Videos !!!
Ich kann den Adapter auch auf thingiverse hochladen. Schau die Tage mal auf meinem Profil vorbei. Falls ich's vergesse, kannst du gern nochmal eine Mail schreiben
@@MariusHornberger Herzlichen Dank!
www.thingiverse.com/thing:4582643
@@MariusHornberger Danke
Could you use a Faraday cage to reduce/eliminate the frequency?
No. The problem is it causes the windings and the iron in the motor to vibrate at the carrier frequency, which is in the audio frequency range, and the motor is connected to the machine, which all acts like a big sound board. The usual trick is to adjust the carrier frequency to try to find one that doesn't make obnoxious sounds.
👍
Measure once, cut twice
hey man have you graduated from college? great video!
I THINK I CAN HEAR THE NOISE!
Try to change the PWM
The channel Rolingmetal used the same VFD as you got from Banggood. In this video I could make out it is from NFLixin and in an older video the label NF-9000 is visible. I do not know if they manufacture multiple versions with the same VFD, but back in 2017 Rolingmetal was able to set the carrier frequency with F012, it seems like this could be set from 2~16.9kHz. ruclips.net/video/0FkWJbr4O1w/видео.html
Think thrice, measure twice, cut once.
Those cheap vfds are awful! I've had one apart and fixed one after it broke. (It caught had alight! When the softstart resistor melted its relay!)
Why don't you just use a variac even a dimmer switch to adjust it, I'm not sure I understand why you need to change the frequency it's the voltage you need to change
You could use a BMS with a cyclic
Changing the speed on induction motors isn't that simple
@@MariusHornberger induction motors yeah need a pulse modulation
If you own something, you can modify it. Just open it and start changing.
Do you need a bandsaw that can go backwards?
😃👍🏻👊🏻
Bayerisch?
Hey my friend sorry I've been sso busy with work this time of year is when all of my money is made that makes it so I can not be on youtube all the time you know we could be relatives I'm German and my last name is HORNBERGER and it would be cool if we was somehow related stay blessed my young friend Thumbs Up My Friend
I think your motor is not designed at all to use with a VFD. Especially not at low RPM, as those motors have separate fan motors which could be run always at full speed to ensure enough cooling - yours will have zero cooling at low speeds, but the motor will heat more as you are using it out of its design frequency.
Another big no-no is to start to adjust the PWM frequency (carrier as you call it) without any knowledge on VFDs, motors etc. You can cremate the whole thing (motor+drive) very-very quickly.
Hard to say if it is or not.
It looks to me like an SEW Eurodrive DT80 or DT90 series motor(shape/size).
That means It's probably produced around 2000-2010, probably in Germany.
It would be much easier if I could see the nameplate clearly. On the SEW homepage, it is possible to enter the serial-number and get all motor data.
However it is probable that a motor produced during these years will be fit for VFD duty. The difference in manufacture, is usually the lacquer used on the copper wire.
By the early 2000's most, if not all,european manufacturers used vfd suitable lacquer.
@@Ealen75 The big difference is the kind of iron which is used in the stator and rotor. It must be of lower eddy losses.
@@janosnagyj.9540 Very Interesting, Thank you for the info. I have never heard about that before, but if you say so I'll have to research that.
It's a great opportunity to learn something new. You never get too old for that.
The reason I point the finger at the stator windings is because that is what I taught many years ago, and ofc what I have seen in practise.
It's always the stator windings lacquer that degrades with VFD & older motors, that is at least my experience.
That is also what I know was change in the early 2000'.
There was even an article about it in some industry magazine many years ago.
In any case vfd drive with this specific motor is highly likely just fine, and its not like it is running 24/7 anyway.
If I had the serial number of Mr Hornberger's motor I could check it Monday morning.
edit:
Ohh i found the article i seemed to remember it is here: ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1206913?arnumber=1206913
On viewing older footage from Marius it seems this is a SEW DT90L4 2,2kW motor, with laser etched nameplate. If I remember correctly then this is a late DT type. The first ones had stamped nameplates not laser etched.
Link to great scott’s video ruclips.net/video/EzJsKWW-cDU/видео.html
Jordan gave you some amazing little gifts awesome Jordan hey Mr. Hornberger my name is Michael Hornberger I'd love to see if we are related I'm German and same name and love your channel ive had my own construction company for over thirty five years and I'm a Master Woodworker and Master Carpenter and I'm extremely Proud of you I wish I had some of your tools I need to make or build a shop for old age so I will be able to build furniture and other things when retirement sets in if it sets in maybe I'll work till I die lol very much PROUD OF YOU MR.HORNBERGER
surface
ужастный писк можно убрать, за него отвечают два параметра. нужна книжка к устройству.
Not carrier frequency ... its the PWM frequency of the mechanism used to recreate the 3 phase power waveforms.
As an electronics engineer I don't mind that he called PWM frequency a carrier frequency. Essentially that's what it is.
In fact for VFDs it just also the terminology they use by default.
@@p_mouse8676 Agreed. PWM frequency, switching frequency, carrier frequency. I've seen all 3 terms used by manufacturers.
Ah yes VFDs... what a pain in the butt these are sometimes...