Beatrice Lillie...aka Lady Peel...what a presence. The panel relates to her in a different kind of way. She is such a veteran and yet her energy is so fresh.
Lady Peel (Beatrice) had a hair dressing appointment in Chicago and the wife of the president of Armour Meats was kept waiting and making a big scene about 'some actress' going ahead of her. As Beatrice was leaving she said to the receptionist, "Tell the butcher's wife, Lady Peel is finished and she can go in now."
Sherman had a brief meteoric career in the 60's with his parody records. He died young at 49 from respiratory failure brought on by complications of alcoholism.
"High Spirits" (book, music, and lyrics by Hugh Martin and Timothy Gray; based on Noel Coward's play "Blithe Spirit") had a very good original Broadway run. It had opened at the Alvin Theatre on Tuesday, 7 April 1964, and it closed on Saturday, 27 February 1965 - a total of 375 performances. The cast principals remained the same for the whole run of the show: Tammy Grimes, Beatrice Lillie, Edward Woodward, Carol Arthur, Margaret Hall, Lawrence Keith, and Louise Troy. The production was staged by Noel Coward (musical numbers were staged by Danny Daniels, and Gower Champion provided additional uncredited direction), with sets and costumes designed by Robert Fletcher (Miss Grimes' costume designed by Valentina) and lighting designed by Jules Fisher. "High Spirits" was the last Broadway production that Beatrice Lillie would appear in. As Bennett Cerf alluded to after Miss Lillie had made her exit, her Broadway debut was on 9 January 1924, as one of the performers in "Andre Charlot's Revue of 1924," which ran at the Times Square Theatre (for four months of its run, at the Selwyn Theatre) through 20 September 1924. Over the years, she appeared in 17 Broadway productions (including "An Evening With Beatrice Lillie").
I've seen excellent productions of both "Blithe Spirit" and "High Spirits" and came away from the latter with the conviction that "Blithe Spirit" is a play that just doesn't need to have added songs. I'm confident that Miss Lillie was a perfect choice for Madame Arcati in the musical, of course. But in the production of "High Spirits" I saw, despite a great cast of singing actors at San Francisco's 42nd Street Moon, during the musical numbers I was always eager to get back to the play, and when the book departed from Coward's original play it wasn't an improvement.
RE: Dorothy's gown. Here’s a really vague recollection from my childhood of watching Sunday Night “What’s My Line?” In 1964, Dorothy wore enough gowns with high empire waist lines that the mother wondered if she were pregnant. That would be a good trick at age 51. As to this particular dress, which shows up in 1964 a number of times - I wonder if it was red and white strips. Every time I see it, I get a circus image in my mind.
It seemed to me that after Dorothy missed so many episodes in a previous season, she had gained some weight around the middle which she found difficult to shed. The empire cut gowns were an attempt to hide that somewhat.
Northern Dancer was born in May, rather late in the year for a thoroughbred. Because thoroughbred racing is age restricted, especially for two year olds and three year olds, the official birthday of every thoroughbred race horse is considered to be January 1. Thus at the earlier ages, a horse born in May is at a distinct disadvantage to ones born at the beginning of the year. Bill Hartack was the fourth jockey to ride Northern Dancer as a three year old. Bobby Ussery was his jockey in the first race, but he finished third. Not until did they get trapped in the pack twice, Ussery ignored trainer's instructions and used a whip to try to come back from the deficit caused by the traps. Bill Shoemaker rode Northern Dancer for the first time in the second race of the year, the Flamingo Stakes and won by 7 lengths. Shoemaker had committed to another horse for his next race so Manny Ycaza (who had ridden him at the end of the two year old season) was aboard for a four length victory and equaling the Gulfstream Park record at 7 furlongs. With Shoemaker back, Northern Dancer won the Florida Derby,, but the time was relatively slow and the margin only one length. At this point, Shoemaker successfully lobbied to ride the top horse in the California racing circuit, Hill Rise. Shoemaker rode his new mount to victory in the Derby Trial and his horse would be the betting favorite in the Derby. Meanwhile, Hartack rode Northern Dancer for the first time, a ½ length victory in the Blue Grass Stakes. Because the margin of victory was less than expected, Northern Dancer dropped down to second favorite. But Hartack not only rode the little colt to victory, they won by a neck over Hill Rise in a record time for the Derby and the track of 2 minute even. Secretariat now holds the record although the two horses couldn't be more dissimilar. Secretariat was a large, powerful and perfectly built horse. When he was in top physical condition, no other horse in history has proven able to beat him. It is believed that his closest competitor in the Triple Crown races, Sham, could have won the Triple Crown in any other year, but Secretariat beat him by 2½ lengths in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness and when jockey Lafitte Pincay was ordered to pace Sham with Secretariat in the four horse field of the Belmont, they ran neck and neck through the back stretch about 12 lengths ahead of the other horses until Secretariat pulled away and broke Sham. Secretariat won by a record 31 lengths (about 1 furlong or about an eighth of a mile). Sham finished last and never raced again, retired when he broke a leg bone a month later during a workout that might trace back to the end of the Belmont. On the other hand, Northern Dancer was a relatively small horse. His times do not match Secretariat, but he was quick and agile and his shorter strides came so swiftly that he was compared to a hummingbird's wings. He was excellent at picking his way through traffic, he had the heart of a champion and he raced to win. He was also a superior stud horse by far compared to Secretariat, producing far more champions through his blood line than Secretariat. Part of that difference is success is because Secretariat's male offspring have been rather disappointing in their performance both at the track and in stud. Secretariat's daughters have been more successful.
Here is a link to a video of Secretariat's 31-length win in the 1973 Belmont Stakes. Chic Anderson, the announcer, famously said, "He is moving like a tremendous machine!" ruclips.net/video/vfCMtaNiMDM/видео.html
As I type this, I am sitting in my house that is built on the paddock that Northern Dancer was trained on - Windfields in Don Mills, a suburb of Toronto. Growing up here in the 60s, Northern Dancer was a major celebrity in our community, and everybody knew E.P. Taylor, his owner. Amazing to see this broadcast and reflect on what we were doing at the time. That horse was the main topic in school, at home, on television and radio, and had better name recognition than John, Paul, George and Ringo to the local residents.
I've learned so much from your informative comments on these "What's My Line" episodes, and this is as good a place as any to say a heartfelt thank you!
Northern Dancer. Canadian horse. Won 1964 Kentucky Derby and the Preakness. In 2 years of racing, won 14 of 18 races and never did any worse than 3. Eventually it became the 20th century's best sire of sires, producing multiple champions in both the United States and the United Kingdom. In the 1980s, its stud fee went up to a million dollars a bang. Nice work, boy -- if you can get it. And apparently, he got it.
+soulierinvestments First Canadian bred horse to win the Kentucky Derby (although his lineage comes from the U.S.). He was severely injured in the summer of 1964 and never raced again. Thus he had plenty of time on his hands to get busy and earn his feed that way.
Manley Luckey has a son named John Manley Luckey who is a dentist in Temecula, CA. Another useless bit of trivia from your friend at Dead-End Internet searches.
WML's staff didn't make the same mistake that Time Magazine did. When "Time" put Hartack on their cover on 2/10/58, they identified him as "Willie Hartack". Bill hated the name "Willie", so much so that he refused to autograph any of the covers. If Hartack was successful enough to grace the cover of "Time" (he had won two Triple Crown races by then), his name preference should have been known well enough by then for the magazine to not have made that mistake. Why some people feel that they don't have to honor the name preference of someone is beyond me. While Hartack was as skilled a jockey as contemporaries Eddie Arcaro and Bill Shoemaker, he wasn't as popular. Arcaro and Shoemaker were known as nice guys, good sportsmen. Hartack wasn't out to win popularity contests. He was more interested in winning races, giving no quarter and asking none. So he often found himself embroiled in controversies and battles with horse owners, trainers, racing officials and members of the media. While he was beloved by few, he was respected by many. And after he retired from racing he became an official in the sport he loved.
Wow, spot-on comment Lois! In addition to so many other great victories, Mr. Hartack rode the wonderful Canadian-bred horse, "Northern Dancer" to a stunning Derby win in 1964. This WML episode was filmed just days after "Dancers" Kentucky Derby triumph, with Bill Hartack, guiding the legendary Northern Dancer into the winners circle. Incidentally, Northern Dancer has proved to be the most successful "sire" in horse racing history - many of his "children" having become great champions in their own right. Cheers from Niagara Canada!
Oh, my gosh! Bill Hartack! I was working in The Little Riviera Lounge as a bartender when Bill came down to Miami to visit my boss George Stidham who trained horses and had been a jockey for a time. It wasn't til 1977 when Bill came to visit. I visited the horsetrack, dogtrack and when I learned more about both sports, I could no longer be a part of it.
@@lllowkee6533 You are absolutely correct. I couldn't believe they'd flown a bunch of thoroughbreds to Change (?) airport and how jumpy they were made me teary eyed. 6500 pregnant cows down in the bowels of a freighter for a 7-10 day trip, no place to lay down, on the way to China capsized & with no escape, all drowned. Animal rights, veganarian... Guess why I'm single. Totally fine with me.
I always like to pick who's going to pick who I believe will win each of the Triple Crown races, and this was one of my better picks...Northern Dancer (who went on to win the Preakness, but lost in the Belmont Stakes, finishing 3rd, I believe), but my best pick ever was Affirmed against Alydar...great races where they had a battle down the stretch in all 3 race, with Affirmed winning the Triple Crown, a feat that was not accomplished again for 37 years!! For some odd reason, and I can't remember why or what...I missed watching the races when Secretariat won the Triple Crown.
Interesting to me that Sherman would appear on WML, as he had earlier developed and produced "I've Got a Secret" which was, to put it as nicely as possible, "inspired by" WML.
@@kentetalman9008 - I disagree. They seemed to disdain each other. Watch them closely. She flirts with other men. It’s disgusting. He’s seething. He on occasion would get back by complimenting some womens appearance. Arlene had such disrespect for him. One time sush-ing him like a child with a measure of hate. What is this fairytale people make up? Did you know them personally?
I suspect the producers were sure to have Allan Sherman appear on an episode sponsored by Kellogg's rather than Geritol. They probably would not have appreciated people thinking about Sherman's song, "Yasha got a bottle of Geritol," much less risk him breaking into a rendition of it.
First they were called Drunk-o-Meters (I remember one of the very early episodes featured this item), and now it is a Sober Meter. I wonder what other names and incarnations it will pass through before we get to Breathalyzer. Interesting watching the evolution of the assignation of names.
Dorothy seemed a little regal when she says to John during the Beatrice Lillie segment (think British accent "that's all I ask you to do John, is agree")
+fishhead06 LOL -- she was quite the name-dropper, eh? And what makes that all the more apparent is that she should have been asking more professionally or culturally relevant questions that the audience would expect, considering the evening's particular mystery guest.
She and Crawford were actually close friends in New York. Her dropping that name would have seemed natural to the NY cognoscenti but I agree it comes off rather snobbish. Reports say Crawford was one of the first people to go to Dorothy’s townhouse on the morning she was discovered dead.
Beatrice Lillie looked very good for 70, which was her age here. Gee some of those plastic surgery babe horrors could lift a leaf from her page here. Whether is was good living or a good surgeon, she look a good 15 years younger than her age.
Not to say that there aren't any talented ones today, but the artistic skills of the plastic surgeons were far better in the 1940s 50s and 60s than they are now. The risks were greater, but the results were far better. It used to be a highly selective field of medicine. Now you can find one in every strip mall and professional building. Arlene Francis, for example, looked totally different and far more beautiful in the mid 1960s than she did in the early 1950s, as did other celebrities - mainly Marilyn Monroe. All one really noticed was that the beauty had simply gotten more beautiful. Less was more. Surgery notwithstanding, it was Arlene's smile and personality that made her beautiful. B. Lillie most likely had a facelift, especially if you look back at her Mystery Guest appearance in 1956, but you only see that she looks far better in 1964, What a great treat to see Allan Sherman. My grandfather got a thrill.
I loved "The Equalizer" and I thought Edward Woodward did an excellent job in it. He was nominated for an Emmy in all four years of the series, although he never took home the trophy. I would have loved for the show to have continued, but perhaps the coronary that Woodward suffered during Season 3 led to it being canceled. Now here's an oddity. So far in response to this episode, I've looked up four living things: Bill Hartack, Northern Dancer, Native Dancer (Northern Dancer's damsire and also a Triple Crown race winner who would have probably won the Triple Crown had he not been fouled twice in the Kentucky Derby) and Woodward. Three of the four died on one of my birthdays. Hartack died ten days after my birthday.
Apparently she was great at doing the mashed potato........hey wait a minute, have you ever seen them in the same room at the same time? Cos I haven't!! Maybe, er....
That's because Cerf knew how to speak English. The name "Derby" is an ancient English place-name/word that is correctly pronounced DARBY. You can check the etymology in any authoritative dictionary. Your American pronunciaion is simply arrogant changing of somebody else's language.
@@TheMaryaBell Interesting. There are other words in the English language that I notice are pronounced differently depending on what part of the country you're in. I visited Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts once and noticed. I learned to spell the word honour rather than honor when I was in school in the 1960's. Thanks for the explanation.
@@TheMaryaBell Interestingly there is Municipality in Pennsylvania named Upper Darby. I have some friends who live there. I love language learning. And listening to the panelists speaking, especially Mr. Cerf, being a publisher knows correct pronunciation and grammar.
@@joycejean-baptiste4355 Thanks for caring about it 🙃 You might also be interested to recall that accents vary even in England! As in America, this is because inhabitants' ethnic origins vary from one region to another, affecting speech accordingly. In the UK, our ancient linguistic roots spring from, e.g., Irish, Scottish and Welsh Celtic tribes, as well as from Old Norse (Scandinavian) and Anglo-Saxon (more southern germanic peoples). Then - along came the Romans (BC/AD era) and the French (in 1066). That's all without mentioning what the 'invasions' of the 20th century have done to linguistics in huge areas, especially around London, Yorkshire, and Birmingham !!!
From here to Nov 1965, this is Dorothy's big-haired sophisticated Woman of the World period. She will have a number of beehives, but every hair style will be big.
I love that beehive look hairstyle on Dorothy. She has a very round face, (no Chin), so the pointy hairdo of the beehive balances the overly round face she has.
It was probably that the Kentucky Derby had just been run and Cerf was mindful of that. It seems that these kinds of guests often appeared on the show close in time to an event.
Carol Channing said that Bea had trouble and was confused during the filming of "Thoroughly Modern Millie" and had to be helped. She lived almost another twenty years and died at 94. I am reading her autobiography and it is a hoot! ❤
Note from Goodson-Todman to Allan Sherman: "come home. all is forgiven." Sherman's appearances are certainly broad minded of everyone concerned. Is there any truth to something I once heard that Dorothy's comic reference to "My Son the Folk Singer" -- a Sherman title -- lead people to speculate that Sherman was her love child?
Look at it this way. Beatrice Lillie debuted on the New York stage in 1924, 40 years before this show, or about the same time that has elapsed since "The Brady Bunch" went off ABC. EGADS! Somebody give me a sponge bath!
“…be either baseball or horse racing?” Whaaaa? Not sure what I think about Bennett pulling “horse racing” out of his hat. I’ve seen other episodes where the challenger was a sports person. And I speculate that some of those episodes aired around Kentucky Derby time - and I don’t recall Bennett asking if the guest was associated with “horse racing” before! There are other episodes where it seemed that the panel landed on the challenger’s line much sooner than I would have expected. …kinda out of the blue...let’s say. I trust that the “horse racing” guess was completely on the up-and-up. …But at the same time, one might think a bit suspicious. 😀
Joe Postove I normally don't watch horse races at all, but of the few I've seen, I don't recall the use of a whip. In Norway it was forbidden 1st of January 2009, and I suppose it's just a matter of time, before the rest of Scandinavia does the same.
SuperWinterborn Well, gee! If you can't whip a horse, what are we going to do with all of our whips? What about the poor people who toil day and night in unheated hot houses who scrape by on what they make from making whips. Gosh! have we lost all of our humanity?
I think Allan Sherman didn't want to be the only one not to kiss Miss Beatrice, so he kind of grabbed her, and forced her to the ground, all the while saying he was just being helpful.
Joe Postove But a jewish guy named 'Horace' is ok? ;) Does 'Joe' come from Joseph, John or Jonathan? (What else is it? There's so many 'Joes' in The US) But Shrimpy?!? My goodness...
They also used blood tests. You can see one being administered to Cary Grant's character in North by Northwest from 1959. It took a long time for the Supreme Court to decide whether administration of blood tests or breathalyzers were searches within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment and necessitated a warrant, whether it was constitutional to set up road blocks to look for drunk drivers, whether there could be legal ramifications for refusing to take a breathalyzer, among other issues.
The members of the panel must have disliked wearing their masks. Every time they are informed they would need their masks for the first guest, they always groan.
It would have been fun if they had invited Clayton Moore ("The Lone Ranger") to appear as a guest panelist. The lawsuit to prevent him from appearing as the Lone Ranger did not occur until 1979.
I believe the ladies worried it would muss their hairdo and smudge their eye makeup. Notice when they take them off the ladies always touch their hair to make sure it is still in place and delicately wipe under their eyes in case their fake eyelashes have gotten loose. Sometimes the camera catches a furtive check of a small purse mirror.
I wonder if the panelists ever take catnaps during the show. There are times when they want something repeated that has just been said, or have something reiterated when it was iterated just few seconds ago. I mean c'mon, c'mon! Dorothy asks if it is a solid or a liquid after Arlene asked the same question and got an answer seconds before. Gee Whillikers! Of course Dorothy has a little typewriter between her legs working on tomorrow's column and is too busy to watch the show.
If you read what Arlene Francis and Bennett Cerf said in their autobiographies about this show, they were not doing it in a proper studio and the sound systems and acoustics were dreadful. You will note many guests ask John Daly to repeat questions to them regularly. The sound was it seems dreadful, as not produced in a regular TV or radio studio. It was a converted space above a train station or something strange like that. So, no one was deaf or catnapped. Bad sound is all.
I know there's no cheating, but Bennett just "happens to" come up with hose racing? Oh, I guess maybe it was just after the Kentucky Derby, so that must be it. You may ignore this post and stop reading .....now!
Bennet Cerf is at it again with laborious puns that take a long set-up before the pretty lame punch-line. In this episode he plays on 'spelling bee' and 'spilling bee' by saying that John Daly spilled all courses of a meal on his clothes and won the spilling bee. Has humour changed or was Bennet Cerf always corny?
Bennett Cerf was always that corny. I've seen a name for the style of humor he exhibits but can not remember it now. And no it was not punnery. Think the essay on it pointed out it had to be "literal" something or other. But it was child like.
Joe Postove I don't think it makes her look fat. Just less skinny ;) In fact I think the top of the dress, matched with the hairdo, suits Dorothy well.
Elsie M. Now everything seems to be back again, from the 50's fringe and red lipstick, to the 60's lines in clothing and (awful) glasses, and because it's in with long hair again, the braids are coming also. But since every decade is involved, you are free to mix it, and the result is not always, well...lucky. My daughter and her friends (18-19) have discussions about which style is best, or if they dropped it all, and cared for the environment instead. The last ones are ending up with braids, and we suddenly are in the 70's :) (Many of the young ones envy us who were young in the 70's, and even blame us for poor results concerning ecological lifestyle. They're right.)
![What's My Line? - Allan Sherman; Steve Lawrence [panel] (Mar 15, 1964)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_73NTfjZHEk/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Allan Sherman; Steve Lawrence [panel] (Mar 15, 1964)](/img/tr.png)
![What's My Line? - George Burns; Martin Gabel [panel] (Feb 2, 1964)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GHV3pyC5DrI/mqdefault.jpg)
Beatrice Lillie...aka Lady Peel...what a presence. The panel relates to her in a different kind of way. She is such a veteran and yet her energy is so fresh.
The wonderful Bea Lillie looked amazing here … and she was almost 70 years old ...
Lady Peel (Beatrice) had a hair dressing appointment in Chicago and the wife of the president of Armour Meats was kept waiting and making a big scene about 'some actress' going ahead of her. As Beatrice was leaving she said to the receptionist, "Tell the butcher's wife, Lady Peel is finished and she can go in now."
A bit ironic since some actors and actresses are known as "hams". I've not read or heard of that term being applied to Miss Lillie, however.
Actually a bit ironic because Lord Peel was a used car salesman...
Hysterical story!
don't believe every story you hear
@@Marcel_Audubon This is a much printed classic in the theater world.
Allan Sherman was pretty good as a panelist.
I agree, he did quite well.
Sherman had a brief meteoric career in the 60's with his parody records. He died young at 49 from respiratory failure brought on by complications of alcoholism.
Alan's father was quite heavy 350 lbs. He died trying a radical diet while Alan was still in grammar school. No doubt this affected him greatly..
Bennett was obsessed with that question about whether something was ever alive.
Miss Lillie lived to be 94. Dying in 1989.
In case anybody was curious, before 1964, Bill Hartack's three previous Kentucky Derby wins came in 1957, 1960, and 1962.
"High Spirits" (book, music, and lyrics by Hugh Martin and Timothy Gray; based on Noel Coward's play "Blithe Spirit") had a very good original Broadway run. It had opened at the Alvin Theatre on Tuesday, 7 April 1964, and it closed on Saturday, 27 February 1965 - a total of 375 performances. The cast principals remained the same for the whole run of the show: Tammy Grimes, Beatrice Lillie, Edward Woodward, Carol Arthur, Margaret Hall, Lawrence Keith, and Louise Troy. The production was staged by Noel Coward (musical numbers were staged by Danny Daniels, and Gower Champion provided additional uncredited direction), with sets and costumes designed by Robert Fletcher (Miss Grimes' costume designed by Valentina) and lighting designed by Jules Fisher.
"High Spirits" was the last Broadway production that Beatrice Lillie would appear in. As Bennett Cerf alluded to after Miss Lillie had made her exit, her Broadway debut was on 9 January 1924, as one of the performers in "Andre Charlot's Revue of 1924," which ran at the Times Square Theatre (for four months of its run, at the Selwyn Theatre) through 20 September 1924. Over the years, she appeared in 17 Broadway productions (including "An Evening With Beatrice Lillie").
I've seen excellent productions of both "Blithe Spirit" and "High Spirits" and came away from the latter with the conviction that "Blithe Spirit" is a play that just doesn't need to have added songs. I'm confident that Miss Lillie was a perfect choice for Madame Arcati in the musical, of course. But in the production of "High Spirits" I saw, despite a great cast of singing actors at San Francisco's 42nd Street Moon, during the musical numbers I was always eager to get back to the play, and when the book departed from Coward's original play it wasn't an improvement.
The OCA is well worth finding and listening to.
There's Dorothy's tinny laugh again! Cute. And Bea Lillie was always a delight.
RE: Dorothy's gown. Here’s a really vague recollection from my childhood of watching Sunday Night “What’s My Line?” In 1964, Dorothy wore enough gowns with high empire waist lines that the mother wondered if she were pregnant. That would be a good trick at age 51. As to this particular dress, which shows up in 1964 a number of times - I wonder if it was red and white strips. Every time I see it, I get a circus image in my mind.
It seemed to me that after Dorothy missed so many episodes in a previous season, she had gained some weight around the middle which she found difficult to shed. The empire cut gowns were an attempt to hide that somewhat.
At the time, Bea Lillie was a living legend. Today she'd be ignored because she actually had talent -- lots of it.
Northern Dancer was born in May, rather late in the year for a thoroughbred. Because thoroughbred racing is age restricted, especially for two year olds and three year olds, the official birthday of every thoroughbred race horse is considered to be January 1. Thus at the earlier ages, a horse born in May is at a distinct disadvantage to ones born at the beginning of the year.
Bill Hartack was the fourth jockey to ride Northern Dancer as a three year old. Bobby Ussery was his jockey in the first race, but he finished third. Not until did they get trapped in the pack twice, Ussery ignored trainer's instructions and used a whip to try to come back from the deficit caused by the traps. Bill Shoemaker rode Northern Dancer for the first time in the second race of the year, the Flamingo Stakes and won by 7 lengths. Shoemaker had committed to another horse for his next race so Manny Ycaza (who had ridden him at the end of the two year old season) was aboard for a four length victory and equaling the Gulfstream Park record at 7 furlongs.
With Shoemaker back, Northern Dancer won the Florida Derby,, but the time was relatively slow and the margin only one length. At this point, Shoemaker successfully lobbied to ride the top horse in the California racing circuit, Hill Rise. Shoemaker rode his new mount to victory in the Derby Trial and his horse would be the betting favorite in the Derby. Meanwhile, Hartack rode Northern Dancer for the first time, a ½ length victory in the Blue Grass Stakes. Because the margin of victory was less than expected, Northern Dancer dropped down to second favorite.
But Hartack not only rode the little colt to victory, they won by a neck over Hill Rise in a record time for the Derby and the track of 2 minute even. Secretariat now holds the record although the two horses couldn't be more dissimilar. Secretariat was a large, powerful and perfectly built horse. When he was in top physical condition, no other horse in history has proven able to beat him. It is believed that his closest competitor in the Triple Crown races, Sham, could have won the Triple Crown in any other year, but Secretariat beat him by 2½ lengths in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness and when jockey Lafitte Pincay was ordered to pace Sham with Secretariat in the four horse field of the Belmont, they ran neck and neck through the back stretch about 12 lengths ahead of the other horses until Secretariat pulled away and broke Sham. Secretariat won by a record 31 lengths (about 1 furlong or about an eighth of a mile). Sham finished last and never raced again, retired when he broke a leg bone a month later during a workout that might trace back to the end of the Belmont.
On the other hand, Northern Dancer was a relatively small horse. His times do not match Secretariat, but he was quick and agile and his shorter strides came so swiftly that he was compared to a hummingbird's wings. He was excellent at picking his way through traffic, he had the heart of a champion and he raced to win. He was also a superior stud horse by far compared to Secretariat, producing far more champions through his blood line than Secretariat. Part of that difference is success is because Secretariat's male offspring have been rather disappointing in their performance both at the track and in stud. Secretariat's daughters have been more successful.
Here is a link to a video of Secretariat's 31-length win in the 1973 Belmont Stakes. Chic Anderson, the announcer, famously said, "He is moving like a tremendous machine!" ruclips.net/video/vfCMtaNiMDM/видео.html
As I type this, I am sitting in my house that is built on the paddock that Northern Dancer was trained on - Windfields in Don Mills, a suburb of Toronto. Growing up here in the 60s, Northern Dancer was a major celebrity in our community, and everybody knew E.P. Taylor, his owner. Amazing to see this broadcast and reflect on what we were doing at the time. That horse was the main topic in school, at home, on television and radio, and had better name recognition than John, Paul, George and Ringo to the local residents.
There's a suburban street in San Antonio TX, called Northern Dancer.
I've learned so much from your informative comments on these "What's My Line" episodes, and this is as good a place as any to say a heartfelt thank you!
@@richatlarge462 Thank you for your kind words.
John Daily gave a few good hints to what the line for the 2nd guest was that none of the panel picked up on
Dorothy should have gotten a yes on her question about it pertaining to the past on the "sober meter"!
Ms Lillie was nearly 71 yrs old, when she appeared on this show. #legend
looks like Dorothy has a wig going... looks better than a lot of her 'do's
Northern Dancer. Canadian horse. Won 1964 Kentucky Derby and the Preakness. In 2 years of racing, won 14 of 18 races and never did any worse than 3. Eventually it became the 20th century's best sire of sires, producing multiple champions in both the United States and the United Kingdom. In the 1980s, its stud fee went up to a million dollars a bang. Nice work, boy -- if you can get it. And apparently, he got it.
+soulierinvestments
First Canadian bred horse to win the Kentucky Derby (although his lineage comes from the U.S.).
He was severely injured in the summer of 1964 and never raced again. Thus he had plenty of time on his hands to get busy and earn his feed that way.
What a picture; Ms. Kilgallen walking down Fifth Avenue, with a Sober Meter in her hand. No time for jokes, folks, this is serious fun... :)
Sadly, Mr. Sherman went down that road as well.
🤣The meter would be going crazy
Manley Luckey has a son named John Manley Luckey who is a dentist in Temecula, CA.
Another useless bit of trivia from your friend at Dead-End Internet searches.
WML's staff didn't make the same mistake that Time Magazine did. When "Time" put Hartack on their cover on 2/10/58, they identified him as "Willie Hartack". Bill hated the name "Willie", so much so that he refused to autograph any of the covers. If Hartack was successful enough to grace the cover of "Time" (he had won two Triple Crown races by then), his name preference should have been known well enough by then for the magazine to not have made that mistake. Why some people feel that they don't have to honor the name preference of someone is beyond me.
While Hartack was as skilled a jockey as contemporaries Eddie Arcaro and Bill Shoemaker, he wasn't as popular. Arcaro and Shoemaker were known as nice guys, good sportsmen. Hartack wasn't out to win popularity contests. He was more interested in winning races, giving no quarter and asking none. So he often found himself embroiled in controversies and battles with horse owners, trainers, racing officials and members of the media. While he was beloved by few, he was respected by many. And after he retired from racing he became an official in the sport he loved.
Wow, spot-on comment Lois! In addition to so many other great victories, Mr. Hartack rode the wonderful Canadian-bred horse, "Northern Dancer" to a stunning Derby win in 1964. This WML episode was filmed just days after "Dancers" Kentucky Derby triumph, with Bill Hartack, guiding the legendary Northern Dancer into the winners circle. Incidentally, Northern Dancer has proved to be the most successful "sire" in horse racing history - many of his "children" having become great champions in their own right. Cheers from Niagara Canada!
@@rivaridge7211 Thank you for your kind remarks.
Hartack won a fifth Kentucky Derby in 1969 on Majestic Prince
very talented and especially funny woman
Mr. Luckey's device would now be called a breathalyzer!
Oh, my gosh! Bill Hartack! I was working in The Little Riviera Lounge as a bartender when Bill came down to Miami to visit my boss George Stidham who trained horses and had been a jockey for a time. It wasn't til 1977 when Bill came to visit.
I visited the horsetrack, dogtrack and when I learned more about both sports, I could no longer be a part of it.
The horse and dog racing community cares noting for the lives of the animals. It’s a horror.
@@lllowkee6533 You are absolutely correct. I couldn't believe they'd flown a bunch of thoroughbreds to Change (?) airport and how jumpy they were made me teary eyed. 6500 pregnant cows down in the bowels of a freighter for a 7-10 day trip, no place to lay down, on the way to China capsized & with no escape, all drowned. Animal rights, veganarian... Guess why I'm single. Totally fine with me.
I always like to pick who's going to pick who I believe will win each of the Triple Crown races, and this was one of my better picks...Northern Dancer (who went on to win the Preakness, but lost in the Belmont Stakes, finishing 3rd, I believe), but my best pick ever was Affirmed against Alydar...great races where they had a battle down the stretch in all 3 race, with Affirmed winning the Triple Crown, a feat that was not accomplished again for 37 years!! For some odd reason, and I can't remember why or what...I missed watching the races when Secretariat won the Triple Crown.
Interesting to me that Sherman would appear on WML, as he had earlier developed and produced "I've Got a Secret" which was, to put it as nicely as possible, "inspired by" WML.
Arlene's a treat. "I don't know.. he blows bubbles."
she must have been nuts to marry Gabel.
@@kenretherford1197 You are SO WRONG!!! They absolutely adored each other.
@@kentetalman9008 - I disagree. They seemed to disdain each other. Watch them closely. She flirts with other men. It’s disgusting. He’s seething. He on occasion would get back by complimenting some womens appearance. Arlene had such disrespect for him. One time sush-ing him like a child with a measure of hate. What is this fairytale people make up? Did you know them personally?
My 2nd favorite British Lady Peel.
Holy cow! She does look good! Wonder what she does to stay so young.
And Ms. Lillie seemed like such a nice person as well.
Also she was known as “the funniest woman who ever stood in shoe leather”
Beatrice Lillie was also on the Nov 4, 1956 episode, which I just watched before this one.
Breathalyzers all around!
😂
I suspect the producers were sure to have Allan Sherman appear on an episode sponsored by Kellogg's rather than Geritol. They probably would not have appreciated people thinking about Sherman's song, "Yasha got a bottle of Geritol," much less risk him breaking into a rendition of it.
First they were called Drunk-o-Meters (I remember one of the very early episodes featured this item), and now it is a Sober Meter. I wonder what other names and incarnations it will pass through before we get to Breathalyzer. Interesting watching the evolution of the assignation of names.
ruclips.net/video/G9n8Xp8DWf8/видео.html
I think Breatholizer is one. Am I right?
Oh, I see. Someone already thought of that. Rats.
@@shirleyrombough8173 Breathalyzer (sp) is a catchy name and the unit's function is pretty obvious. Easy to see why the name stuck..
And the interference of government into our life’s
another legend I could have seen, but didn't.
San Bernardino is no where near Napa Valley.
Even today it's an 8-hour drive.
It is if you’re in Manhattan.
Its appropriate that its Mothers Day! Its 2 days after Mothers Day 2023! ❤
She looks younger here than eight years earlier. She must have had an excellent cosmetic surgeon.
Dorothy seemed a little regal when she says to John during the Beatrice Lillie segment (think British accent "that's all I ask you to do John, is agree")
Again with one of Dorothy's sly, obscure, "I know a lot of celebrities" questions.
+fishhead06 LOL -- she was quite the name-dropper, eh? And what makes that all the more apparent is that she should have been asking more professionally or culturally relevant questions that the audience would expect, considering the evening's particular mystery guest.
Glenn Brown
She definitely loved not only being a bon vivant; but being SEEN to be a bon vivant.
Yeah, "Did I once give you a lift home from Joan Crawford's party" was just so low class of her... sorry...
Not really very sly. It was blatant name-dropping, and her personal questions did nothing to help the other panelists.
She and Crawford were actually close friends in New York. Her dropping that name would have seemed natural to the NY cognoscenti but I agree it comes off rather snobbish. Reports say Crawford was one of the first people to go to Dorothy’s townhouse on the morning she was discovered dead.
Wow! The height of Dorothy's hair on this episode! 😋
Ridiculous wig.
@@bogieviews ....I would say rather that this was The Beehive hairstyle, which was enormously popular in the 1960's.
Beatrice Lillie looked very good for 70, which was her age here. Gee some of those plastic surgery babe horrors could lift a leaf from her page here. Whether is was good living or a good surgeon, she look a good 15 years younger than her age.
Not to say that there aren't any talented ones today, but the artistic skills of the plastic surgeons were far better in the 1940s 50s and 60s than they are now. The risks were greater, but the results were far better. It used to be a highly selective field of medicine. Now you can find one in every strip mall and professional building. Arlene Francis, for example, looked totally different and far more beautiful in the mid 1960s than she did in the early 1950s, as did other celebrities - mainly Marilyn Monroe. All one really noticed was that the beauty had simply gotten more beautiful. Less was more. Surgery notwithstanding, it was Arlene's smile and personality that made her beautiful. B. Lillie most likely had a facelift, especially if you look back at her Mystery Guest appearance in 1956, but you only see that she looks far better in 1964, What a great treat to see Allan Sherman. My grandfather got a thrill.
I love the beading on lady pearls sweater
isayhello2u: And I say to you that her name was “Lady Peel”.
allan sherman: hello muddah, hello faddah :D
The others in the cast of High Spirits were Tammy Grimes and Edward Woodward of The Equalizer fame.
I loved "The Equalizer" and I thought Edward Woodward did an excellent job in it. He was nominated for an Emmy in all four years of the series, although he never took home the trophy. I would have loved for the show to have continued, but perhaps the coronary that Woodward suffered during Season 3 led to it being canceled.
Now here's an oddity. So far in response to this episode, I've looked up four living things: Bill Hartack, Northern Dancer, Native Dancer (Northern Dancer's damsire and also a Triple Crown race winner who would have probably won the Triple Crown had he not been fouled twice in the Kentucky Derby) and Woodward. Three of the four died on one of my birthdays. Hartack died ten days after my birthday.
The Kentucky Derby (not Darby, Bennett), is an American institution.
Bennett is right (and so is Daly) --- DERBY is an English place-name/word that is properly pronounced DARBY. Your Yankee name is just a copy.
Allan Sherman created I've Got a Secret.
Every time I see Bill Hartack's name in this video title, I automatically read it as "Hatrack" and have to do a double take to correct myself!
SaveThe TPC When I read it as "Heartattack"! ;) (Sorry, couldn't help it ;)
Dorothy, the circus called - they want their tent back.
Wait so, Beatrice Lillie was 70 years old here??? wow....
I think Dorothy Kilgallen inspired James Brown’s hairdo.
That made me laugh.
Apparently she was great at doing the mashed potato........hey wait a minute, have you ever seen them in the same room at the same time? Cos I haven't!! Maybe, er....
Dave Sanderson That’s it then!
Oh, I thought it was the Kentucky Derby not Darby. Interesting how Mr. Cerf and Mr. Daly's accents sound like they're saying Darby.
That's because Cerf knew how to speak English. The name "Derby" is an ancient English place-name/word that is correctly pronounced DARBY. You can check the etymology in any authoritative dictionary. Your American pronunciaion is simply arrogant changing of somebody else's language.
@@TheMaryaBell Interesting. There are other words in the English language that I notice are pronounced differently depending on what part of the country you're in. I visited Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts once and noticed. I learned to spell the word honour rather than honor when I was in school in the 1960's. Thanks for the explanation.
@@TheMaryaBell Interestingly there is Municipality in Pennsylvania named Upper Darby. I have some friends who live there. I love language learning. And listening to the panelists speaking, especially Mr. Cerf, being a publisher knows correct pronunciation and grammar.
@@joycejean-baptiste4355 Thanks for caring about it 🙃 You might also be interested to recall that accents vary even in England! As in America, this is because inhabitants' ethnic origins vary from one region to another, affecting speech accordingly. In the UK, our ancient linguistic roots spring from, e.g., Irish, Scottish and Welsh Celtic tribes, as well as from Old Norse (Scandinavian) and Anglo-Saxon (more southern germanic peoples). Then - along came the Romans (BC/AD era) and the French (in 1066). That's all without mentioning what the 'invasions' of the 20th century have done to linguistics in huge areas, especially around London, Yorkshire, and Birmingham !!!
@@joycejean-baptiste4355 Cerf may, at times, know correct pronunciation, but there are many other times when he makes up his own.
Could it be the black and white, but Beatrice Lillie is 70 here and definitely does not look 70...
Dorothys hair! Oh dear. Those mid 60s hair fashions were a tad ridiculous lol. So glad I was on 4 then😅
Is this the dress Miss Kilgallen wore when she went to visit Jack Ruby in jail?
Dorothy's hairdo...is that a beehive? It looks like a large bowl.
The glories of teasing/backcombing!
From here to Nov 1965, this is Dorothy's big-haired sophisticated Woman of the World period. She will have a number of beehives, but every hair style will be big.
Joe Postove Funny. What you called beehive, we used to call haystack. ;)
Joe Postove Not haystacks. Tummystacks.
Joe Postove my favorite wrestler...ever
"I've been to a marvelous party." "The singing telegram." And on it goes. Good times. Now we wallow in vulgarity and call it humor.
RE: Arlene's gown. I like her dots better than Dorothy's stripes. Just saying.
soulierinvestments The stripes are something else, all right. Fashion by Riker's Island.
What's My Line? soulierinvestments
I thought she looked like she was dressed for a pajama party (Dorothy, that is).
SaveThe TPC At Riker's Island.
Ha!
I love that beehive look hairstyle on Dorothy. She has a very round face, (no Chin), so the pointy hairdo of the beehive balances the overly round face she has.
Once again I fast forward through Bennett cheating and getting the first mystery guest with only one down, please.
Two shows were done tonight.
The August 23, 1964 show, which was pre-taped.
And this show (May 10, 1964), which was live.
And this is why her dress appeared again later in the year. Hint -- that future show had someone who sang.
Also, I wonder who it was Dorothy gave that lift to after Joan Crawford's shindig?
Elsie M. .... Johnny Ray?
+Elsie M.
It vasn't Siegfried and Starker ...
ruclips.net/video/zj02CeofIH8/видео.html
There's a picture of Allan Sherman with JFK on the internet.
This was my twelfth birthday! I'm old...
I was 18. I'm older.
I hope you are doing well, Kent...
Bennett figured that jockey out a little too quickly, mmmm fixed????
It was probably that the Kentucky Derby had just been run and Cerf was mindful of that. It seems that these kinds of guests often appeared on the show close in time to an event.
Poor Bea Lillie ended up with Alzheimer's...
Carol Channing said that Bea had trouble and was confused during the filming of "Thoroughly Modern Millie" and had to be helped. She lived almost another twenty years and died at 94. I am reading her autobiography and it is a hoot! ❤
Note from Goodson-Todman to Allan Sherman: "come home. all is forgiven." Sherman's appearances are certainly broad minded of everyone concerned.
Is there any truth to something I once heard that Dorothy's comic reference to "My Son the Folk Singer" -- a Sherman title -- lead people to speculate that Sherman was her love child?
Ms Lillie does not look like a 70 yr old women here!!!!
Look at it this way. Beatrice Lillie debuted on the New York stage in 1924, 40 years before this show, or about the same time that has elapsed since "The Brady Bunch" went off ABC. EGADS! Somebody give me a sponge bath!
Joe Postove: I think you will first need to post a photo if you want someone to give you a sponge bath.
“…be either baseball or horse racing?”
Whaaaa?
Not sure what I think about Bennett pulling “horse racing” out of his hat.
I’ve seen other episodes where the challenger was a sports person. And I speculate that some of those episodes aired around Kentucky Derby time - and I don’t recall Bennett asking if the guest was associated with “horse racing” before!
There are other episodes where it seemed that the panel landed on the challenger’s line much sooner than I would have expected. …kinda out of the blue...let’s say.
I trust that the “horse racing” guess was completely on the up-and-up. …But at the same time, one might think a bit suspicious. 😀
Yet another left-handed mystery guest: Bill Hartack.
When he cracked a whip on his Horse, he would use his left hand.
***** He *cracked* a whip on his horse?!? I don't recall I've seen a jockey using whip at all?
SuperWinterborn SW, have you ever seen American horse racing? Really it's common for a jockey to use a whip during a race.
Joe Postove I normally don't watch horse races at all, but of the few I've seen, I don't recall the use of a whip. In Norway it was forbidden 1st of January 2009, and I suppose it's just a matter of time, before the rest of Scandinavia does the same.
SuperWinterborn Well, gee! If you can't whip a horse, what are we going to do with all of our whips? What about the poor people who toil day and night in unheated hot houses who scrape by on what they make from making whips. Gosh! have we lost all of our humanity?
Joe Postove The S/M market is big enough, I assume. :)
Cerf asked two questions and should have been answered no by the jockey.
I think Allan Sherman didn't want to be the only one not to kiss Miss Beatrice, so he kind of grabbed her, and forced her to the ground, all the while saying he was just being helpful.
Manley J. Lucky...if that ain't A NAME, then I'm not Horace J. Postovich.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Joe Postove The name suited him well. Seemed to be a nice man too. Horace?!?!?
I think Horace is short for Shrimpy. He did seem t be a nice man. Would you take candy from him, though, SW?
Joe Postove Yes, in fact I think I would...Shrimpy?!?!? ;D
SuperWinterborn In old American Days guys named Horace were usually called Shrimpy. Unless their wives were Jewish, of course.
Joe Postove But a jewish guy named 'Horace' is ok? ;) Does 'Joe' come from Joseph, John or Jonathan? (What else is it? There's so many 'Joes' in The US) But Shrimpy?!? My goodness...
I didn't know they had breathalizers back then
It was invented in 1927 and the first practical one for roadside use was developed in 1931. "Breathalyzer" is a brand name. It was invented in 1954.
They also used blood tests. You can see one being administered to Cary Grant's character in North by Northwest from 1959. It took a long time for the Supreme Court to decide whether administration of blood tests or breathalyzers were searches within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment and necessitated a warrant, whether it was constitutional to set up road blocks to look for drunk drivers, whether there could be legal ramifications for refusing to take a breathalyzer, among other issues.
Government has been creeping into its citizens life’s for a very long time
Dorothy's hair is lovely tonight
The members of the panel must have disliked wearing their masks. Every time they are informed they would need their masks for the first guest, they always groan.
karlakor More and more often, and more vocally, as the series went along, too. :)
No air conditioning and the lights made them sweat. So they once said --without the word air conditioning!
It would have been fun if they had invited Clayton Moore ("The Lone Ranger") to appear as a guest panelist. The lawsuit to prevent him from appearing as the Lone Ranger did not occur until 1979.
I believe the ladies worried it would muss their hairdo and smudge their eye makeup. Notice when they take them off the ladies always touch their hair to make sure it is still in place and delicately wipe under their eyes in case their fake eyelashes have gotten loose. Sometimes the camera catches a furtive check of a small purse mirror.
Sure
When jockey Hartack gazes into the camera, I thought "he looks like a real jerk." After Google research, turns out he was indeed a jerk.
I wonder if the panelists ever take catnaps during the show. There are times when they want something repeated that has just been said, or have something reiterated when it was iterated just few seconds ago. I mean c'mon, c'mon! Dorothy asks if it is a solid or a liquid after Arlene asked the same question and got an answer seconds before. Gee Whillikers! Of course Dorothy has a little typewriter between her legs working on tomorrow's column and is too busy to watch the show.
If you read what Arlene Francis and Bennett Cerf said in their autobiographies about this show, they were not doing it in a proper studio and the sound systems and acoustics were dreadful. You will note many guests ask John Daly to repeat questions to them regularly. The sound was it seems dreadful, as not produced in a regular TV or radio studio. It was a converted space above a train station or something strange like that. So, no one was deaf or catnapped. Bad sound is all.
I know there's no cheating, but Bennett just "happens to" come up with hose racing? Oh, I guess maybe it was just after the Kentucky Derby, so that must be it. You may ignore this post and stop reading .....now!
Joe Postove Weren't both Bennett and Martin *very* interested in sports? (I've given an answer to your 'blast' on FB. Under McGuire sisters.)
SuperWinterborn I'll look for it, SW!
Joe Postove Thanks!
I don't think Arlene or Dorothy wants Mr. Lucky's sample!
Dorothy's dress as an 'empire bosom'. It is a very small empire.
Bennet Cerf is at it again with laborious puns that take a long set-up before the pretty lame punch-line. In this episode he plays on 'spelling bee' and 'spilling bee' by saying that John Daly spilled all courses of a meal on his clothes and won the spilling bee. Has humour changed or was Bennet Cerf always corny?
Bennett Cerf was always that corny.
I've seen a name for the style of humor he exhibits but can not remember it now. And no it was not punnery. Think the essay on it pointed out it had to be "literal" something or other. But it was child like.
Everything then was "classy". Today it's common or Trashy
He’s eating too many meat pies. Way to many
The ill-fated riverbed virtually turn because wrist hopefully handle including a spiffy limit. vague, uttermost cork
Of course, that's obvious.
Now, alright, but c'mon, c'mon, that dress on Dorothy is NOT flattering. It makes her look fat. Like Arlene was a couple of weeks ago.
Joe Postove I don't think it makes her look fat. Just less skinny ;) In fact I think the top of the dress, matched with the hairdo, suits Dorothy well.
I hated it when she first came out, but it grew on me! The style is channeling a bit of the Regency era. The1960s-do-the-1800s, wowee.
Elsie M. Now everything seems to be back again, from the 50's fringe and red lipstick, to the 60's lines in clothing and (awful) glasses, and because it's in with long hair again, the braids are coming also. But since every decade is involved, you are free to mix it, and the result is not always, well...lucky. My daughter and her friends (18-19) have discussions about which style is best, or if they dropped it all, and cared for the environment instead. The last ones are ending up with braids, and we suddenly are in the 70's :) (Many of the young ones envy us who were young in the 70's, and even blame us for poor results concerning ecological lifestyle. They're right.)
Elsie M.
It looked like a nightgown to me.
Bea needs to stop picking her nose on TV....
Dorothy has no chin! And Cerf is so smarmy
Rigged
Nope.