Top tier looks like that for me (US): -You spawn -Your teammates and enemies fight out -enemy spawns plane -"What do you mean 4-5 people died in seconds to one guy" -You die to plane -Spawn ADATS -See enemy, you can't lock -You finally can lock -Fire the missile -It will hit in a sec -Plane does barrel roll -Missile misses -You die to the same plane Rinse and repeat. Plane player needs only few brain cells to counter AA... unless it's Pansir then Rest in Pieces, cause I won't cry for you, friend or foe.
Im mostly fine with cas being strong it just should also be hard to spawn then too. A light can cap a point and then scout a few dudes and oop f15e with 5 big ass bombs and 6mavs for 500 points.
It is even more disgusting at lower tier. I play a lot of 6.7 germany since i am a big fan of the Tiger II. And i own the JU 288C because it is just a classic grinder with 2500kg bombs. I need 2 kills/2 Caps with the tiger or like 3 scouts 1 cap with the LeKpz to spawn a fully loaded 288C which is AT LEAST 2 free kills even if i play brain dead. Which is not fair to the enemy team
i think that a lot of the frustration caused by CAS around 3.7 to 7.0 in realistic battles could be fixed by an addition to AA vehicles. Like giving special scopes with rads accompanied by a tutorial to teach people how to lead their proyectiles properly. When you are firing as an AA, a lot of times youre just guessing unless you master a specific gun so you can somewhat now how much to lead your bullets. I beleve a tutorial could really help this aspect. Also limit the amount of planes that can be around, in a similar to what is in arcade battles
bro what? we now have nations filled with oerlikon kad 20mm kinda guns that are basically laserguns with good damage if you cant hit planes with those ure bad at this game im sorry
The problem is lot of the tech trees don't have SPAA's there are notable gaps in Usa, Britain, Japan, China, France, Sweden. And there's another problem only missile caring SPAA's usually their ammo capacity is not that much and they can't defend themselves.
i was playing my type 59, and i randomly got killed. turns out, theres a tree line just ahead of me 3km away on a slight hill. a completely stationary heli sniped me. after the battle i took a look at the kill logs, and as it turns out, that heli has been camping for minutes and got a kill every 15-20sec. there was no way of spotting him, he just blended into the tree line, there was no way of avoiding him, there was no way of surviving a hit from him on the other hand, a couple days earlier we had an enemy heli near our spawn. he was using mountains as cover, so he went in and out from hiding. i only noticed after i got killed by him. i respawned in my plz-05, and after two failed attempts at hitting him, i made a direct hit. that was the most satisfying kill in my career. but also, he was above a close mountain, clearly visible if you looked in that direction, and a couple of my team mates already had their machine guns on him
I mean I had a match where we were dominating a team from the get-go and then they completely destroyed over half my team in 2 minutes with Cas and won the match after they got the momentum back
Im glad you explained the Ground Only mode discussion. Fun fact Gaijin expressed this multiple times both in word and action. The Jaguar E devblog (or it was on the forums later idr) alluded to releasing multiple CAS event rewards repeatedly was due to Gaijin wanting to offer “those who are not interested in Air Battles a chance to have useful aircraft for combined battles” This was definitely stated with the addition of attack drones. Their actions over the years pushing more combined arms themed vehicles clearly shows this pathology. They’ve also expressed this privately on the CC server during discussions concerning repeated CAS event rewards. So take with that info what you will…
I'd say top tier goes fast BECAUSE of CAS. Planes like the SU-34, F-15 or Rafale can very often do an alpha strike from beyond most SPAA's ranges and wipe out half the team, thus turning the tides. I don't play Russia so I can't speak for Pantsirs but it's quite impossible for my VT1s do hit any CAS unless they are flying in a straight line, but most of the time the experienced CAS players will skirt at the very edges of their launch ranges and fling their missiles before diving away out of range. In situations such as these there's not much you can do to protect the team as SPAA unless someone spawns a jet to hunt them down.
Its also not helped by things like stingers and mistrals being super touchy on weather or not they will ACTUALLY lock or not. So while you are trying to lock a heli that is hovering at say 5km away in clear view, he is throwing missiles at you while you still cant lock on, meaning you get killed despite seeing him first and trying to engage him, but the weapon systems made to counter them just don’t work, and predator drones you literally just cant lock onto using stingers unless they are incredibly close. they can engage you WAY before you can engage them. another issue is that, it forces players to grind out two tech trees in order to even be competitive, specially at top tier. if you cant deal with CAS from the ground, and have to use aircraft to deal with them, then that means you have to grind out the entire aircraft tech tree in order to do that… so you spent all your time grinding out the ground tree just find out that, top tier ends up being just air battles with player ground targets. meanwhile, someone who has ground out the entire aircraft tree can just push all their squadron points into say the M1A1 aim, cap a point, get a kill and spawn into their fully loaded jet, which they are more experienced using than a ground player who grinded out the air tree out of necessity and likely will not do as well in it. the whole game pretty much caters to CAS players and its sad that, as a tank player you are subjected to things that in some cases you literally cant do anything against unless you grind out the air trees. at 11.0+ Britain only have the ADATS for SPAA which is awful compared to the other SPAA; that means to be effective you need a good jet… well at 11.0+ that means you are going to have to grind out the entire air tree to deal with CAS, while other nations have good SPAA; so you have to put in twice the work and are forced to learn more of the game that you may not enjoy just so you can do SOMETHING against the CAS. Meanwhile, you are pretty much always matched against Russia who have the Pantsir AND some great CAS planes. so you die in your tank to a CAS fighter, spawn in a jet and get clapped by a Pantsir or spend the whole game trying to deal with the Pantsir and CAS while your team get obliterated, meaning its a lose lose scenario. Yes i know brimstones exist, but as a non CAS player using a fighter because you just dont want to deal with CAS or need to counter it, they are hard to use. unless you force yourself to learn that side of the game, and get all the controls right, its difficult to use them; but a player who plays exclusively to use CAS has everything set up and knows exactly how to do it. people play ground battles because they enjoy the tank combat, but are forced into battles with people who just want to treat those players as food; plus sometimes poor map design means that CAS has a straight shot on your spawn as soon as they appear, and can launch off missiles that arrive after you lose spawn protection. Lots of fire and forget munition that CAS players can launch and dip out and hide while they travel to target, while SPAA have to keep a clear line of sight on a target that they may not know has launched munitions and has turned around or started to fly low meaning you just die from a guy who fired missiles then hid and didnt need a line of sight, like you do.
I think not enough people talk about how insane CAS is Rank IV and below, it's not every match, but far too often it turns into an Air RB match in the skies. It's also extremely annoying that any time you get on a point there's about a 1/10 chance you get a bomb dropped on you before you even finish the cap. I really do think that CAS needs to have an increased SP cost especially depending on armament. Could also give you more incentive to scout with light vehicles to reduce the cost.
I'm pissed at CAS. A few days ago I had an absolutely amazing match, my entire team died pretty quickly and the enemy pushed our spawn, but I was behind them. I killed 4 spawncampers and then another person on the point. I had 3 other tanks in my sights, all of them completely oblivious to my presence. I could've easily gotten my first ever nuke if I didn't get CAS'd to absolute hell. I respawned and tried to flank again, killed someone and then got CAS'd AGAIN. This happened again and then I rage quit... It's so stupid when there's 5 su-25s swarming around, you can't do stuff. I could've clutched that match and gotten my first nuke because their team just wasn't paying attention and allowed me to get a good flank in, but I got bombed. I hate this game 😭
7:18 what we are asking them to do is to make it fair. Air gets its mode, ground should have its mode. It would be a standard thing any none large company would do, since those companies actually rely on people liking their game. 8:40 that’s just straight up wrong in every single it’s honestly mind boggling that someone could even have an opinion like this. Even if a *GROUND* player wanted to go back, which they wouldn’t, as the idea does Infact sound as good as it does, they could, because why would you remove the original game mode? 12:30 gonna have to hard disagree there. Most matches I’ve played do not go fast by any means. And depending on the CAS, it is brutal. Any player who knows what to do will kill a lot, as long as they don’t fight a semi active Panstir.
I don't think he means the game goes by quick. In most top tier matches, you can figure out who will win within the first 5 minutes due to how snowbally top tier is.
@@AbhiChandra-ho6ioyup. You're technically in the game longer, but I'd say at the 3-4 minute mark and beyond generally nothing you do affects the outcome including hopping in a jet
CAS is supposed to be overpowered. That’s the entire mission they’re supposed to do. The issue is what you said; it’s not fun to play against because of limited counter play options. Since there’s a finite limit to how SPAA can be filled out, I think what they can do is implement a live SP adjuster for how many strike aircraft or helicopters are in the battle at a given time. Ex, costs are stabilized until 1min after the first aircraft spawns, then they’ll fluctuate based upon how many are up in the air for a given team. Interceptor loadouts get lower costs against a team that has like three strike planes and a pair of helos up, while that particular team needs more points to spawn a plane with even iron bombs. My only hard disagree is that at 10.7+ saying that CAS balance is “irrelevant” due to the quick battle rounds. Often, those rounds end fast because of a combination of low count lineups, but also CAS snowballing. I have managed to get games to drag out simply because of taking out the CAS spam, or giving a counterstrike window for friendly CAS to clear a flank. It’s more accurate to say that it has significant influence, but that weight will vary from battle to battle more wildly than the 7.7-10.3 bracket. At the end of the day, I’ll still say player knowledge, experience, and especially anticipation are more overpowered than anything else. Good vehicles and CAS help, but it’s not much when someone seizes initiative.
What if there was a mechanic in which once a certain number of tickets has been drained? It would be like once a certain threshold of tickets is drained, (maybe half) the radio message says to all players on that team, "We're losing! We're calling for air support!" And then for a limited time after that announcement, the spawn cost for strike aircraft for that team is reduced by a significant amount, or if there are players with not CAS in their lineup, they would be granted a light strike option for that limited time. This would serve as a good comeback mechanic for teams that aren't doing particularly well at first, preventing too much snowballing from the winning team, and would serve as an incentive for players who die in their first couple spawns and have no more spawn points to stay in the match to hopefully regain some spawn points through these "air strike events" so they can return to the battlefield on the vround and keep contributing to the team. This would also make ground RB more beginner friendly, as it wouldn't overpunish players for spawning twice, getting no kills, then not having enough spawn points to spawn again to try a new approach, which is inherently harmful to a new player's learning curve. I was also thinking that during a gameplay event like this, the opposing team would also get an announcement, where once the striking team has spawned an attacker the radio announcement would say, "Enemy attackers on the horizon/on radar! Scramble fighters!" And then that team would for the limited time be able to spawn a fighter in their lineup or a given fighter (with no option for changing its loadout) if they have none, but for only the first 2-3 players who take advantage of the mechanic and they would start at their airfield, so it would give the striking team some time to score at least a ground kill or two. After the second or third player to spawn a fighter during this event has spawned, (or maybe once there are at least 2-3 fighters in the air already as to not fill the sky with planes) the spawn costs for the rest of the players on that team would change back to normal, as to not fill their side of the sky with fighters. However, this would be a mechanic that happens for both teams and at the same amount of ticket drain, so this event could happen twice per match and for each team. I think adding something like this would make the game so much more dynamic and fun, and would allow players to keep being able to contribute to their team even if they run out of spawn points early on in the match.
As a CAS enjoyer, I find top tier cas almost impossible, you have to keep extremely low to avoid AA, and you're moving so fast you can't see enemy tanks, even if they've been spotted it can be difficult. that being said I never really learned how to use ATGM, I typically just go rocket spam. the handful of times I've tried ATGM I've just got frustrated at how annoying it is to find, lock and track a target. Leaves you really vulnerable.
My suggestion is for CAS to be limited to cockpit view, same as in simulation battles. As a mainly mid tier player, the only time I respect CAS killing me is when I play simulation.
CAS is the reason why I don‘t play top tier Ground RB/Sim anymore. It‘s too easy, too cheap to spawn, and too rewarding for the risk, which is close to zero thanks to all the modern armaments that top Tier offers today. And I say this as a fairly competent Pilot in War Thunder. I’ve played a lot of French Top Tier in December and SPAAs at Top Tier are not scary, and they cannot even fight me while I‘ll take out at least 6 Tanks in one pass with the AASMs. Ground Sim is even worse, because CAS can be spawned inmidiately and as soon as one team gains aerial superiority the Match is won. We should get a CAS Free Game Mode for ground.
Problem I have with CAS is how easy it is to spawn. One cap and a assist should not let you spawn in a fully loaded plane. It should be earned and should be at least 1000sp to spawn, revenge bombing is a also a thing but that's a whole another issue. Also they need to make SPAA actually rewarding or worth your time, I rarely see people first spawn as SPAA for actual AA duty. You only spawn in it because you can't spawn in anything else or you got revenge bombed.
Great wrap up! I'll say that CAS is definitely a very annoying facet of the game especially considering how hard it is to gain AA experience as a player vs getting CAS experience. You can argue that you can get better by making a bot lobby and shooting down the planes in a ground vehicle but experienced CAS players know how to counter being shot at from the ground so that doesn't really teach you much beyond maybe the gun properties of your AA vehicle. Not only that but CAS is a very exploitable mechanic, I'm reminded of a situation last year where there was an event and I found myself facing a squad of France players in the mid tiers, if it wasn't bad enough that they coordinated a flank near perfectly, and that from the nature of early autoloaders they have a massive advantage vs almost everything that isn't expecting them, once some of them started getting taken out they'd spawn in one of the american CAS planes france has access to, meaning they had all the large bombs, rockets and autocannons to clean up the team, spawn camp and take out any opposing planes. I do feel like, if not a reward cut, a cap on the number of bomb carrying planes you can spawn is needed. Like you said CoD is known for its kill streak rewards and a plane full of bombs is such a reward meaning you could only get one maybe two per match.
idc how broken cas is in grb, what i just want is a gamemode where ground fight ground and nothing more. that would be better. if gaijin wants a gamemode with cas they can have that too (add boats to it??) but im not here for that.
Imo top tier helis are probably overpowered compared to top tier fixed wing CAS. Top tier SAM can do little against a top tier heli pilot that knows how to properly spam their missile to proxy the SAM's missile to win jousts. I've heard a possible counter play is for the SAM to spiral it's missile around but I haven't really tested that, otherwise it'll almost guarantee that a heli will come out on top in a 1v1.
That's bullshit. In top tier a good kh38 run that annihilated 4 vehicles would break the opposite's line and instantly turn the battle. Same as G91 with AS20 back then.
JUST GIVE GROUND TO AIR KILLS MORE REWARDS. I have invested time and love playing AA but I get significantly less rewards for killing air targets more than ground. Won’t change what I do but it would help
Cas is a problem at top tier, low tier i think its fine but I do think spaa should get more rewards for killing them. Radar spaa is kinda busted towards planes that don't have long range options so it makes some planes kinda shit especially when they gave spaa a way to refill it ammo without going to a control point. When atgm get introuced it makes the early radar spaa less brain dead if they wanna be good and actually have to ambush cas, but it can be extremely boring to play but also not always an options. I don't think increasing spawn points on cas as a whole is the answer because some br have issue with spaa but also it will make cas more rare and make spaa less valued. I think the answer is to just increase the cost of radar spaa a bit, but also give them more rewards for doing their job, more sl or alot more spawn points or maybe a spaa cas kill inflicts more ticket losses to the enemy team.
Answer NO complicated answer due to the declining quality of wt maps, shortening of matches, removing flank spots and the overall horrible state of GRB its one of the only still playable and potentially fun thing to do in grb. The world of tanks-ification of WT maps has lowered the quality of GRB gameplay past like 6.0 soo much its arguably not worth playing anymore and the small size of maps and short battles only increase this issue. GRB EC would fix most issues with the game atm but snail does not want that.
I used to play cas at 12.7 exclusively, so I never got the whole "cas is too cheap to spawn" idea. I've been playing it at 7.7 recently and.. Oh boy. I feel like if I as much as look at an enemy, my fully loaded Barrougan becomes available as the second spawn. It pisses me off - if I don't use it, it's a net loss for my team. If I use it, every match turns into an air gameplay experience! I removed it from my lineup so I'm not tempted. Lol.
@@Idk-cz9ms Any kills made in ground rb counts towards the event score. It doesn't check for what got the score in the event only how much you got during the game and what tier you are
I don't think being able to see missiles coming in is good because the pantsir can already shoot down every agm with a tiny amount of skill i think if they would just add a radio transmission to say that there's incoming missiles and give a heading would be good also i dont really think CAS itself is the issue i think its the lack of even near competitive spaa for every country except russia the only aa even near competitive at top tier is the pantsir if they would give everyone better spaa cas wouldnt be a issue
Idr if uve mentioned it but also Light tanks getting cash faster and cheaper than anything else Cool for light tanks but it's an unfair advantage for most of the game
The annoying thing here is that CAS relies on spotting a lot too. By the time you've got a plane, there's no light tanks alive anymore doing any spotting.
Depends this keep expirienced players from being the turning point of the game and campers get killed leopard 2 huldown imposible to kill with tank he see evrything you dont see him simple as that it must cost more spawn ponits and limited cas ore air to ground loadouts limited in battle i mean from i say example 5 aircraft 3 air to ground load outs allowed
@@embeddd Indeed. Even though i can't speak for people above 8.3 beacouse i don't have any vechicles there i can certainly say that the Wiesel as an AA is one of the worst things and all the AA up to Gepard are just pure bad. So in my opinion there should be two things: add Coelian and add possibility to manualy change the detonation time on HE-TF shells.
Top tier looks like that for me (US):
-You spawn
-Your teammates and enemies fight out
-enemy spawns plane
-"What do you mean 4-5 people died in seconds to one guy"
-You die to plane
-Spawn ADATS
-See enemy, you can't lock
-You finally can lock
-Fire the missile
-It will hit in a sec
-Plane does barrel roll
-Missile misses
-You die to the same plane
Rinse and repeat. Plane player needs only few brain cells to counter AA... unless it's Pansir then Rest in Pieces, cause I won't cry for you, friend or foe.
Im mostly fine with cas being strong it just should also be hard to spawn then too. A light can cap a point and then scout a few dudes and oop f15e with 5 big ass bombs and 6mavs for 500 points.
It is even more disgusting at lower tier. I play a lot of 6.7 germany since i am a big fan of the Tiger II. And i own the JU 288C because it is just a classic grinder with 2500kg bombs. I need 2 kills/2 Caps with the tiger or like 3 scouts 1 cap with the LeKpz to spawn a fully loaded 288C which is AT LEAST 2 free kills even if i play brain dead. Which is not fair to the enemy team
Short answer: no.
Long answer: it's complicated.
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss.
i think that a lot of the frustration caused by CAS around 3.7 to 7.0 in realistic battles could be fixed by an addition to AA vehicles. Like giving special scopes with rads accompanied by a tutorial to teach people how to lead their proyectiles properly. When you are firing as an AA, a lot of times youre just guessing unless you master a specific gun so you can somewhat now how much to lead your bullets. I beleve a tutorial could really help this aspect. Also limit the amount of planes that can be around, in a similar to what is in arcade battles
bro what? we now have nations filled with oerlikon kad 20mm kinda guns that are basically laserguns with good damage if you cant hit planes with those ure bad at this game im sorry
A lot of frustration at that tier could be addressed by simply not having cas have an initial airspawn
Not every Nation gets those@@uladzimirhryharovich8852
The sound of an incoming A2D has become etched into the structure of my brain
There's a special place in hell for people that main the Me262 with the 5CM cannon
The problem is lot of the tech trees don't have SPAA's there are notable gaps in Usa, Britain, Japan, China, France, Sweden. And there's another problem only missile caring SPAA's usually their ammo capacity is not that much and they can't defend themselves.
i was playing my type 59, and i randomly got killed. turns out, theres a tree line just ahead of me 3km away on a slight hill. a completely stationary heli sniped me. after the battle i took a look at the kill logs, and as it turns out, that heli has been camping for minutes and got a kill every 15-20sec. there was no way of spotting him, he just blended into the tree line, there was no way of avoiding him, there was no way of surviving a hit from him
on the other hand, a couple days earlier we had an enemy heli near our spawn. he was using mountains as cover, so he went in and out from hiding. i only noticed after i got killed by him. i respawned in my plz-05, and after two failed attempts at hitting him, i made a direct hit. that was the most satisfying kill in my career. but also, he was above a close mountain, clearly visible if you looked in that direction, and a couple of my team mates already had their machine guns on him
Thats why i don't play past 6.7 anymore. Playing at 5.7 is all i need.
@PanPowiatowy honestly, 4.7-6.7 is where i had the most fun in the game, so i completely understand
@T_PLAYER Indeed, but I also like the very low tiers, there's no real push for winning but to have fun
CAS is fine.
It’s War Thunder terrible map design and spawn locations that are the big issue.
I mean I had a match where we were dominating a team from the get-go and then they completely destroyed over half my team in 2 minutes with Cas and won the match after they got the momentum back
Im glad you explained the Ground Only mode discussion.
Fun fact Gaijin expressed this multiple times both in word and action. The Jaguar E devblog (or it was on the forums later idr) alluded to releasing multiple CAS event rewards repeatedly was due to Gaijin wanting to offer “those who are not interested in Air Battles a chance to have useful aircraft for combined battles”
This was definitely stated with the addition of attack drones. Their actions over the years pushing more combined arms themed vehicles clearly shows this pathology.
They’ve also expressed this privately on the CC server during discussions concerning repeated CAS event rewards. So take with that info what you will…
I'd say top tier goes fast BECAUSE of CAS. Planes like the SU-34, F-15 or Rafale can very often do an alpha strike from beyond most SPAA's ranges and wipe out half the team, thus turning the tides. I don't play Russia so I can't speak for Pantsirs but it's quite impossible for my VT1s do hit any CAS unless they are flying in a straight line, but most of the time the experienced CAS players will skirt at the very edges of their launch ranges and fling their missiles before diving away out of range. In situations such as these there's not much you can do to protect the team as SPAA unless someone spawns a jet to hunt them down.
The true problem is that shooting down planes isn't lucrative, hence no one flies combat partol/ first spawns AA
Its also not helped by things like stingers and mistrals being super touchy on weather or not they will ACTUALLY lock or not. So while you are trying to lock a heli that is hovering at say 5km away in clear view, he is throwing missiles at you while you still cant lock on, meaning you get killed despite seeing him first and trying to engage him, but the weapon systems made to counter them just don’t work, and predator drones you literally just cant lock onto using stingers unless they are incredibly close. they can engage you WAY before you can engage them.
another issue is that, it forces players to grind out two tech trees in order to even be competitive, specially at top tier. if you cant deal with CAS from the ground, and have to use aircraft to deal with them, then that means you have to grind out the entire aircraft tech tree in order to do that… so you spent all your time grinding out the ground tree just find out that, top tier ends up being just air battles with player ground targets. meanwhile, someone who has ground out the entire aircraft tree can just push all their squadron points into say the M1A1 aim, cap a point, get a kill and spawn into their fully loaded jet, which they are more experienced using than a ground player who grinded out the air tree out of necessity and likely will not do as well in it.
the whole game pretty much caters to CAS players and its sad that, as a tank player you are subjected to things that in some cases you literally cant do anything against unless you grind out the air trees.
at 11.0+ Britain only have the ADATS for SPAA which is awful compared to the other SPAA; that means to be effective you need a good jet… well at 11.0+ that means you are going to have to grind out the entire air tree to deal with CAS, while other nations have good SPAA; so you have to put in twice the work and are forced to learn more of the game that you may not enjoy just so you can do SOMETHING against the CAS. Meanwhile, you are pretty much always matched against Russia who have the Pantsir AND some great CAS planes. so you die in your tank to a CAS fighter, spawn in a jet and get clapped by a Pantsir or spend the whole game trying to deal with the Pantsir and CAS while your team get obliterated, meaning its a lose lose scenario.
Yes i know brimstones exist, but as a non CAS player using a fighter because you just dont want to deal with CAS or need to counter it, they are hard to use. unless you force yourself to learn that side of the game, and get all the controls right, its difficult to use them; but a player who plays exclusively to use CAS has everything set up and knows exactly how to do it. people play ground battles because they enjoy the tank combat, but are forced into battles with people who just want to treat those players as food; plus sometimes poor map design means that CAS has a straight shot on your spawn as soon as they appear, and can launch off missiles that arrive after you lose spawn protection.
Lots of fire and forget munition that CAS players can launch and dip out and hide while they travel to target, while SPAA have to keep a clear line of sight on a target that they may not know has launched munitions and has turned around or started to fly low meaning you just die from a guy who fired missiles then hid and didnt need a line of sight, like you do.
I think not enough people talk about how insane CAS is Rank IV and below, it's not every match, but far too often it turns into an Air RB match in the skies. It's also extremely annoying that any time you get on a point there's about a 1/10 chance you get a bomb dropped on you before you even finish the cap. I really do think that CAS needs to have an increased SP cost especially depending on armament. Could also give you more incentive to scout with light vehicles to reduce the cost.
I'm pissed at CAS.
A few days ago I had an absolutely amazing match, my entire team died pretty quickly and the enemy pushed our spawn, but I was behind them. I killed 4 spawncampers and then another person on the point. I had 3 other tanks in my sights, all of them completely oblivious to my presence. I could've easily gotten my first ever nuke if I didn't get CAS'd to absolute hell. I respawned and tried to flank again, killed someone and then got CAS'd AGAIN. This happened again and then I rage quit... It's so stupid when there's 5 su-25s swarming around, you can't do stuff. I could've clutched that match and gotten my first nuke because their team just wasn't paying attention and allowed me to get a good flank in, but I got bombed. I hate this game 😭
7:18 what we are asking them to do is to make it fair. Air gets its mode, ground should have its mode. It would be a standard thing any none large company would do, since those companies actually rely on people liking their game.
8:40 that’s just straight up wrong in every single it’s honestly mind boggling that someone could even have an opinion like this. Even if a *GROUND* player wanted to go back, which they wouldn’t, as the idea does Infact sound as good as it does, they could, because why would you remove the original game mode?
12:30 gonna have to hard disagree there. Most matches I’ve played do not go fast by any means. And depending on the CAS, it is brutal. Any player who knows what to do will kill a lot, as long as they don’t fight a semi active Panstir.
I don't think he means the game goes by quick. In most top tier matches, you can figure out who will win within the first 5 minutes due to how snowbally top tier is.
@@AbhiChandra-ho6ioyup. You're technically in the game longer, but I'd say at the 3-4 minute mark and beyond generally nothing you do affects the outcome including hopping in a jet
CAS is supposed to be overpowered. That’s the entire mission they’re supposed to do.
The issue is what you said; it’s not fun to play against because of limited counter play options.
Since there’s a finite limit to how SPAA can be filled out, I think what they can do is implement a live SP adjuster for how many strike aircraft or helicopters are in the battle at a given time. Ex, costs are stabilized until 1min after the first aircraft spawns, then they’ll fluctuate based upon how many are up in the air for a given team. Interceptor loadouts get lower costs against a team that has like three strike planes and a pair of helos up, while that particular team needs more points to spawn a plane with even iron bombs.
My only hard disagree is that at 10.7+ saying that CAS balance is “irrelevant” due to the quick battle rounds. Often, those rounds end fast because of a combination of low count lineups, but also CAS snowballing. I have managed to get games to drag out simply because of taking out the CAS spam, or giving a counterstrike window for friendly CAS to clear a flank. It’s more accurate to say that it has significant influence, but that weight will vary from battle to battle more wildly than the 7.7-10.3 bracket.
At the end of the day, I’ll still say player knowledge, experience, and especially anticipation are more overpowered than anything else. Good vehicles and CAS help, but it’s not much when someone seizes initiative.
Best idea I've seen so far. This needs to be posted somewhere more public.
Yeah, but it is frustrating when your team is doing well and then it gets obliterated by Cas and then you lose
the problem is not CAS, the problem is vehicles out of balance...
What if there was a mechanic in which once a certain number of tickets has been drained? It would be like once a certain threshold of tickets is drained, (maybe half) the radio message says to all players on that team, "We're losing! We're calling for air support!" And then for a limited time after that announcement, the spawn cost for strike aircraft for that team is reduced by a significant amount, or if there are players with not CAS in their lineup, they would be granted a light strike option for that limited time.
This would serve as a good comeback mechanic for teams that aren't doing particularly well at first, preventing too much snowballing from the winning team, and would serve as an incentive for players who die in their first couple spawns and have no more spawn points to stay in the match to hopefully regain some spawn points through these "air strike events" so they can return to the battlefield on the vround and keep contributing to the team. This would also make ground RB more beginner friendly, as it wouldn't overpunish players for spawning twice, getting no kills, then not having enough spawn points to spawn again to try a new approach, which is inherently harmful to a new player's learning curve.
I was also thinking that during a gameplay event like this, the opposing team would also get an announcement, where once the striking team has spawned an attacker the radio announcement would say, "Enemy attackers on the horizon/on radar! Scramble fighters!" And then that team would for the limited time be able to spawn a fighter in their lineup or a given fighter (with no option for changing its loadout) if they have none, but for only the first 2-3 players who take advantage of the mechanic and they would start at their airfield, so it would give the striking team some time to score at least a ground kill or two. After the second or third player to spawn a fighter during this event has spawned, (or maybe once there are at least 2-3 fighters in the air already as to not fill the sky with planes) the spawn costs for the rest of the players on that team would change back to normal, as to not fill their side of the sky with fighters.
However, this would be a mechanic that happens for both teams and at the same amount of ticket drain, so this event could happen twice per match and for each team. I think adding something like this would make the game so much more dynamic and fun, and would allow players to keep being able to contribute to their team even if they run out of spawn points early on in the match.
As a CAS enjoyer, I find top tier cas almost impossible, you have to keep extremely low to avoid AA, and you're moving so fast you can't see enemy tanks, even if they've been spotted it can be difficult.
that being said I never really learned how to use ATGM, I typically just go rocket spam. the handful of times I've tried ATGM I've just got frustrated at how annoying it is to find, lock and track a target. Leaves you really vulnerable.
My suggestion is for CAS to be limited to cockpit view, same as in simulation battles. As a mainly mid tier player, the only time I respect CAS killing me is when I play simulation.
Why question mark in title? It is overpowered lmao
CAS is the reason why I don‘t play top tier Ground RB/Sim anymore. It‘s too easy, too cheap to spawn, and too rewarding for the risk, which is close to zero thanks to all the modern armaments that top Tier offers today. And I say this as a fairly competent Pilot in War Thunder.
I’ve played a lot of French Top Tier in December and SPAAs at Top Tier are not scary, and they cannot even fight me while I‘ll take out at least 6 Tanks in one pass with the AASMs.
Ground Sim is even worse, because CAS can be spawned inmidiately and as soon as one team gains aerial superiority the Match is won.
We should get a CAS Free Game Mode for ground.
Problem I have with CAS is how easy it is to spawn. One cap and a assist should not let you spawn in a fully loaded plane. It should be earned and should be at least 1000sp to spawn, revenge bombing is a also a thing but that's a whole another issue. Also they need to make SPAA actually rewarding or worth your time, I rarely see people first spawn as SPAA for actual AA duty. You only spawn in it because you can't spawn in anything else or you got revenge bombed.
A pve sim gamemode can potentially be great if if isn't boring heli pve sim (which should also get a rework)
Great wrap up!
I'll say that CAS is definitely a very annoying facet of the game especially considering how hard it is to gain AA experience as a player vs getting CAS experience. You can argue that you can get better by making a bot lobby and shooting down the planes in a ground vehicle but experienced CAS players know how to counter being shot at from the ground so that doesn't really teach you much beyond maybe the gun properties of your AA vehicle.
Not only that but CAS is a very exploitable mechanic, I'm reminded of a situation last year where there was an event and I found myself facing a squad of France players in the mid tiers, if it wasn't bad enough that they coordinated a flank near perfectly, and that from the nature of early autoloaders they have a massive advantage vs almost everything that isn't expecting them, once some of them started getting taken out they'd spawn in one of the american CAS planes france has access to, meaning they had all the large bombs, rockets and autocannons to clean up the team, spawn camp and take out any opposing planes. I do feel like, if not a reward cut, a cap on the number of bomb carrying planes you can spawn is needed. Like you said CoD is known for its kill streak rewards and a plane full of bombs is such a reward meaning you could only get one maybe two per match.
Just increase spawn cost for ground strike weapons. The one who bombs me should have earned at least 1000 spawn point to be able to do so.
Here's a solution, you can't bring your own planes in the game or you just can't choose a lodaut for them something similar to Arcade.
That's a retarted solution
idc how broken cas is in grb, what i just want is a gamemode where ground fight ground and nothing more. that would be better.
if gaijin wants a gamemode with cas they can have that too (add boats to it??) but im not here for that.
Imo top tier helis are probably overpowered compared to top tier fixed wing CAS. Top tier SAM can do little against a top tier heli pilot that knows how to properly spam their missile to proxy the SAM's missile to win jousts. I've heard a possible counter play is for the SAM to spiral it's missile around but I haven't really tested that, otherwise it'll almost guarantee that a heli will come out on top in a 1v1.
That's bullshit. In top tier a good kh38 run that annihilated 4 vehicles would break the opposite's line and instantly turn the battle. Same as G91 with AS20 back then.
It's asymmetric warfare.
JUST GIVE GROUND TO AIR KILLS MORE REWARDS. I have invested time and love playing AA but I get significantly less rewards for killing air targets more than ground. Won’t change what I do but it would help
Cas is a problem at top tier, low tier i think its fine but I do think spaa should get more rewards for killing them. Radar spaa is kinda busted towards planes that don't have long range options so it makes some planes kinda shit especially when they gave spaa a way to refill it ammo without going to a control point. When atgm get introuced it makes the early radar spaa less brain dead if they wanna be good and actually have to ambush cas, but it can be extremely boring to play but also not always an options. I don't think increasing spawn points on cas as a whole is the answer because some br have issue with spaa but also it will make cas more rare and make spaa less valued. I think the answer is to just increase the cost of radar spaa a bit, but also give them more rewards for doing their job, more sl or alot more spawn points or maybe a spaa cas kill inflicts more ticket losses to the enemy team.
Answer NO complicated answer due to the declining quality of wt maps, shortening of matches, removing flank spots and the overall horrible state of GRB its one of the only still playable and potentially fun thing to do in grb. The world of tanks-ification of WT maps has lowered the quality of GRB gameplay past like 6.0 soo much its arguably not worth playing anymore and the small size of maps and short battles only increase this issue. GRB EC would fix most issues with the game atm but snail does not want that.
I used to play cas at 12.7 exclusively, so I never got the whole "cas is too cheap to spawn" idea. I've been playing it at 7.7 recently and.. Oh boy. I feel like if I as much as look at an enemy, my fully loaded Barrougan becomes available as the second spawn. It pisses me off - if I don't use it, it's a net loss for my team. If I use it, every match turns into an air gameplay experience! I removed it from my lineup so I'm not tempted. Lol.
I genuinely had to the same shit when grinding tank events I want ground rp but the CAS is literally free points so I remove it
@@Idk-cz9ms Any kills made in ground rb counts towards the event score. It doesn't check for what got the score in the event only how much you got during the game and what tier you are
@@TainyaGaming I know it does that’s why it’s temping to shorten the grind but I was trying to focus on grinding tanks instead of just score
I don't think being able to see missiles coming in is good because the pantsir can already shoot down every agm with a tiny amount of skill i think if they would just add a radio transmission to say that there's incoming missiles and give a heading would be good also i dont really think CAS itself is the issue i think its the lack of even near competitive spaa for every country except russia the only aa even near competitive at top tier is the pantsir if they would give everyone better spaa cas wouldnt be a issue
Idr if uve mentioned it but also
Light tanks getting cash faster and cheaper than anything else
Cool for light tanks but it's an unfair advantage for most of the game
The annoying thing here is that CAS relies on spotting a lot too. By the time you've got a plane, there's no light tanks alive anymore doing any spotting.
Depends this keep expirienced players from being the turning point of the game and campers get killed leopard 2 huldown imposible to kill with tank he see evrything you dont see him simple as that it must cost more spawn ponits and limited cas ore air to ground loadouts limited in battle i mean from i say example 5 aircraft 3 air to ground load outs allowed
we need stronger SPAA/a big BUFF
And CAS need to be Limitet
your top tier take is just worng i had too many battel were CAS lost me the battel
yes it is
CAS its not even a problem. SPAA is teally cheap. There aren't a ñot ñf plauer woth good CAS either way.
the spaas arent good enough to deal with good cas, adats vs su-34 just isnt fair
@@embeddd Indeed. Even though i can't speak for people above 8.3 beacouse i don't have any vechicles there i can certainly say that the Wiesel as an AA is one of the worst things and all the AA up to Gepard are just pure bad. So in my opinion there should be two things: add Coelian and add possibility to manualy change the detonation time on HE-TF shells.