Reducing Energy Consumption with a Hybrid (Heat Pump) Water Heater
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2021
- I've replaced my 6-gallon off-grid electric water heater with a new 50-gallon hybrid (heat pump) water heater. This new water heater will run fully off-grid and am hoping will help significantly reduce my electrical consumption.
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I enjoyed the change of pace and I think this type of content falls right in line with collecting and storing your own energy. Once you collect it, it is important to make the most of that precious energy!
Sweet!!! Those are so cool
Hey Will
I had an 80 gallon version of one of these in my previous home. Wired of course. It replaced two 50 gallon water heaters and boy what a difference. Expensive to buy but cheap to run. We saved about $150 a month on our electric bill. I agree though, very loud and they must be placed in a well ventilated area because they need lots of air to be efficient. However, the compressor doesn't run 24/7 so it wasn't that bad.
@@explorenaked wow . you use $150 worth of hot water ? where do you live ?
@@MrBemnet1 At that time it was in the mountains of Colorado about 30 miles west of downtown Denver. No we didn't use $150 gallons of water per month but that's not how a water heater works. It keeps the water warm regardless if you use it or not. So replacing two inefficient 50 gallon builder grade electric WH's with one efficient heat pump WH saved us $150 a month on our electric bill.
@@explorenaked if you save $150 month on heating water, then it mean you were using spending at least $150 dollar on heating water. what is your total electricity bill ? and how much do you pay per Kwh?
If you read the manual it will tell you the elements will run until the water reaches a certain temp, >60. You will want it in heat pump mode to ensure it runs the heat pump only. Electric mode is elements only, high demand uses heat pump and elements to recover super fast. Energy saver tries to use mostly heat pump but will turn on electric elements to help and heat pump only uses the heat pump.
Curious if he couldn't just unwire the upper and lower element so it couldn't enable them (think burnt out bulb, it's not going on regardless) since the other tank is responsible to get the temp the rest of the way.
Spot on! I own one and went through the same scenario and it wasn’t until I read the manual to understand what was happening. I leave mine in heat pump only.
Gonna GetYa device will throw an error code if you disconnect an element
@@gonnagetya1433 tried it, didn't work, the computer detects it and shuts down the whole thing What I ended up doing on mine was replacing all the 4500W heating elements with 1500W.
They are cool. I got a Rheemes 50g (from Home Depot) 2 years ago. The Heat-pump only mode maxes out at only 450w and works really well. 2 loads of laundry will 'drain it' but it will recover in 2 or 3 hours. Overall, our family of 2 with 100ft of hot-water recirculation used 1,990 kwh for the year. Min of 140kwh/month in summer and a max of 201kwh/month in cold winter month. The tank sits under the house with low of 55F/13C in winter and high of 75F/24C in summer. In addition, its easy to switch to 'traditional' (heating element) mode... so if you have high demand such as visitors for Christmas you can easily avoid the slower/more-gentle recovery in heat-pump mode for a few days and use traditional 4,500w heating element :)
I'll just assume we've all watched Technology Connections' videos on heat pumps, right? If not go check them out.
No I haven't but will go check them out!
@@LithiumSolar Oh the rabbit hole you're about to go down. He's an interesting fella and goes in depth on a lot of random topics.
@@gingerman5123 I love the dishwasher prewash video! Did you like that one too?
@@uhjyuff2095 I actually haven't watched it yet. I gotta be in the right mood lol
We have had the same HPDHW for 5 years. Ours runs about 2 hours a day with two people. Set at 127 degrees to get 120 degrees at the faucet, even though it says 120 its actually 113. The costs savings over 4 years it paid for itself. Would buy again if it broke today. Yes it has to be in Eco mode to keep demand elements turned off. Ours uses 360 watts when running.
That's great to hear it's been working well long-term! and makes me feel good about the investment :) I really wish it had a display that showed actual temp of the water. I was seeing similar in other videos that you have to set it higher than the temperature you actually desire. I guess it has a wide temperature swing to prevent constant cycling and save power (just my guess).
@@LithiumSolar you're display is different from mine. Check you're EcoNet connection via wifi. Look for a status (sensor) menu in the service menu. Mine shows upper and lower tank temperatures, elements power on or off, line temperatures for heat pump, txv valve open %, discharge coil temp and ambient temperature of room
@@jstaffordii I bought and installed one last year, and it has the nice 'sensor' display option. We bought another one this year for our daughter and son-in-law's place and that newer model misses the detailed display. We could not find it in the App either. I was rather disappointed by that.
@@LithiumSolar I also miss the actual temp reading - how hard would that be?! John Stafford II - I was also disappointed with the temp hysteresis. You don't want it to short-cycle to satisfy say a 1 degree requirement, but 5 degrees seems too much. The proper solution for this is probably to install a ($100) mixing valve set to a safe 120 F and let the tank heat to 130 or more. This will also allow you store more energy while the sun shines. Program a schedule for example for 135 for 10 am - 4pm and 125 outside that window. With that I find the for most days it only heats when the sun shines. -
@@heinvandenheuvel yeah they dropped the display now that they have EcoNet IOT solution
I installed the 80 gal version of this same water heater 4 months ago. It is super efficient and I bought it specifically to run off of my solar system in a emergency situation and partially during Sunny days. I run it on heat pump mode and it operates at around 400 watts. I'm still in the process of installing my solar system but I'm sure it will work well in a emergency situation. My system is 2 GroWatt 3kw running in series with with 3900 watts of panels, and 5.3 kw Battery storage. When we replaced our old water heater it dropped our Electric bill by 38%. Hopefully when we get the solar system installation completed we can drop our usage another 30 to 40 percent. The 80 gal. Unit we special ordered through Menards opperates on 15 amp 240 volts circuit. The heating elements draw 2450 watts, which we will never use when in solar mode. Even in a grid down SENERIO we should have lights refrigeration, and a hot shower.
This was a $2000 water heater but with the sale price discounts and Electric company rebate our out of pocket cost was $900. Kinda a no brainer for saving money and heating your water. 40 cents a day for a family of 4 and I can run it on my solar system. Hey what's not to like about that. Also it's in our basement in the pantry area and keeps everything cool and dry average temperature is about 55 degrees. Haven't ran our dehumidifier since the install.
Great video! Your the first one I have seen recently and I would recommend everyone to get on board with these great highly efficient heat pump water heaters.
Thought about adding the intake ductwork to pickup warmer air for more efficienty but I'm happy with it for now. Hope you have the same results that we have experienced.
Thanks for sharing.
Bob
Something new with these Gen 5 Hybrids unlike the Gen 4 models is that the 4500 watt elements will possibly come on in all modes depending on incoming cold water temperature, even vacation mode if the water temp falls below 60 degrees default set point. Something Rheem is blaming on an algorithm glitch. They are not correcting the problem and are just hoping no one notices. With the Gen 4 models if you put it in Heat Pump only mode that is what it done, heat pump only. Trust me I have spent hours on the phone with Rheem about this. They should have kept the touchscreen display/control board from the Gen 4 models and used them in the Gen 5. It had so many more features like 4 different water temp sensors, ambient temp, evaporator temp, discharge temp and other features. It is still an efficient water heater though.
Have you tried disconnecting the heater element and does it fault? I do supplemental PV resistive heating on mine, but it is an external NYLE and just wondering if this could also be done with an all in one tank. A 1uF capacitor may simulate enough load to defeat a current sensor if there is one. Any load of this would not be seen by meter as it would just help correct power factor.
@@opera5714 I haven't tried that. I had posted this but didn't say it for the reason is, if you are completely off grid and just want to run "heat pump only" with the Gen 5 it may call for an element with real low incoming water temp (-65 degrees) and if there is less than 23 amps or greater than 23 amps give or take 10% the control board will show element fault and poor element health. Some people have said to disconnect the elements and put a 240v light bulb in its place to show some resistance but the board still reads the current (23 amps +-) and gives fault. I think the real reason they done this with the Gen 5 that it will bring an element on in all modes is complaints of slow recovery times. Hence always keeping the inrush of cold incoming water at a minimum therefore making for less recovery time regardless of what mode you're in. The engineers I talked to at Rheem understood what I was saying and kind of agreed with me but at the same time wouldn't admit it. If they say Heat Pump only Mode as an option that's what it should be. Some people's solar/battery bank can't handle the 4200 watt load for an hour was my point. Anyway it is the most efficient consumer hybrid on the market right now and I do love it.
@@MiniDigging I was an industrial controls designer and can they still have a mechanical thermostat much like a home thermostat that comes on at a low temperature should the electronics fail. A sense line might also detect if the element is powered and the over temp has been tripped. Never say never. But, I find it hard to believe that there is much interest in the
health or current of the element. This seems like a secondary non issue. Does it make any real difference if the element
is disconnected. Wiring harness could make that difficult to implement. Some have alluded to an issue if the heater is
disconnected, but have never explained what happens. Anything can be faked. I am curious about this because I believe PV
resistance has a future role to play in efficient water heating and this element could be used in solar. At 400W, a HPWH
can't dump that much energy and they become less efficient at higher temperatures. Battery usage should be spared as much as possible toward the end of the day. Any link to interconnect schematic and picture of board would be helpful. I used a capacitor to trick my HPWH into working.
I have spent years developing PV diversion controls that don't use inverters, charge controllers, or batteries.There are serious amounts of power just wasted in a conventional PV system. That could be used in the heating elements a HPWH system to speed recovery and elevate water temperatures to maintain the tank overnight. In fact many PV resistive systems could operate on existing panels alone. Efficiency doesn't matter when it is free.
So, I and others who follow me are interested in any information you find on disconnected elements. My designs are
too complicated for most in solar. These simple designs can increase performance.
This is great info! Thanks for sharing your experience with this product. I never new they existed. Looking forward to an update.
Awesome way to heat water. Hope you make a follow up video with details about how well it dehumidifies the basement, ect.
I too would love a follow up video!
We've had ours for about a week. For a household of 2 people, it runs so little that its a minimal difference in temperature and humidity in our garage. Our standalone dehumidifier still cranks away like it always has. Only using about 1-2kWh for water heating now though.
very interesting, keep us updated on how this goes. My water heater is 6 years old so I might should replace the rod too.
Impressive how easy it is, if you know what your doing, to have an efficient system.
Having the little off-grid heater feeding the on-grid one is such a simple solution, great idea.
The problem with that set up is that when you’re not using hot water for a while and the main tank cool down, you’re reheating it with the grid. That little reheat could be done by solar but it’s not possible in that set up.
Definitely gonna invest into this water heater for my parents house.
Great video brother. Keep up the good work.
Those water heaters kick on the elements the first time they are turned on by default, even in heat pump only mode. After the initial warm up, they will never kick on again. Some say it is because homeowners don't understand that heat pumps take longer and would return them to the store shortly after install as "not working." Others say it is because the elements have to "break in" with their first water contact. Either way, that was totally normal and should be mentioned somewhere in the manual!
Might be part of control unit diagnostics to ensure everything is functional on initial startup.
I went through this scenario a few years ago. For me this was a no go. Payback period (for me) was about 20 years because of the initial cost of the hybrid. The Tank would not last up to the payback period. They are cool though! My 80% efficient natural gas hot water heater only uses 8.00/month of gas and I also get the benefit of being able to take hot showers even if the grid goes down. Thanks for sharing!
Yeah if you have gas, that's probably the way to go - no real reason to replace it with a heat pump-based tank.
That's not current information . The payback period on this one is 4 years . It uses 350 dollars less in a year . There is a 300 tax credit . Home depot has them on sale for 1350.00 often . 1550.00 regular price for a 50 gallon in my area. You can run this on solar so even quicker payback and grid down ready .
In my case with the Federal Government forcing a carbon tax on us, the payback shouldn't be near that long. This onerous tax is about to triple & the next election could be another few years down the road with no guarantee a subsequent government will axe the tax. My November natural gas bill was $240!! It's brutal vs the Hydro bill which comes in only every 2nd month & is much lower. I replaced my natural gas hot water heater with one of these in late August & love it. I've also recently blown major $$$ on a new electric induction range to replace a gas range. Only thing left running natural gas now is my furnace & outdoor BBQ. i suspect it's the furnace that's cranking up my gas bill as it's been unusually cold November & December. Not much I can do there other than to add more under floor electric heating & heat only the room I'm in vs running the central furnace.
I do like the video of your new heat pump hot water heater.
You could use that old water heater as a solar black tank placed outside, on its side and heated by the sun in your warm weather months as well. I do this, but I am in Florida and my black preheat tank in the sun plus my hybrid water heater allows me to heat water for consuming only 24kwh per month in the hottest months. That is $2.64 for a family of three for a month of hot water. Winter time, I bypass and drain the black tank. The worst part of the process is removing the outer shell of the water heater and the foam insulation to get to the steel tank beneath.
I liked the idea of using the preheat buffer system of your old setup.
It made me wonder if collecting hot water directly from your roof is an option.
Everything I see, it is more efficient to use solar heated water than to heat it from photovoltaics.
Would be interesting to know how the hybrid water heater compares to either a tankless electric or tankless gas water heater.
Great job as always on detailing the pluses and minuses of the product. Your videos are so much better then the obviously paid sales people who just read all specs from the sales sheet providing little useful info to make a decision with. Thank you
Everything has is pros and cons. Electric tankless you will need to run 2 or 3 wires and add extra breakers. That will run you $400-$700 assuming you have enough space in your service box.
No comparison - the heat pumps are capable of 3.5 to 4.0x the efficiency of straight electric, ie: for every 1 watt consumed, they put 3.5w-4w of heat into the water.
I believe with this water heater the electrical elements turn on the first time you turn it on. I'm off grid and after the first time, I haven't seen them turn on unless I tell them to.
I wonder how much of the noise is conducted thru your rigid piping? The flex copper or pex loops intended for use between water heater and facility piping might provide some isolation.
Nice. My main issue was always the uncontrollable current draw from a full-tilt-boogie 4400W heating element clicking on and off, so I just installed a 3 way switch to reduce that load to 1100W to keep the inverter from complaining. I bet I could get it to run on a 48v DC load too since it just uses switches an a thermostat on the inside, and doesn't care about what power goes to it. Might consider buying one of these hybrids though. Thanks.
I purchased a 80gal. model that's 15amp 240 volt and the elements draw 2450 watts. On heat pump mode the elements never turn on.
Cost us 40 cents a day for a family of 4. Works flawlessly in our basement pantry and keeps all our canned goods a cool 55 degrees.
Cool, I saw one installed on a TOH episode and here they are in the real world now. Funny, that pipe shadow at the end ... whatever can go wrong while recording will definitely go wrong.
Yeah I didn't notice that pipe shadow until I was editing the video lol... TOH had an episode with a very cool heat pump unit that you could add to your existing electric heater, but I couldn't find those for sale anywhere. Not sure what happened to the product. Nyle I think it was.
Interesting. Back in the day there was a coil you could attach to the AC system (Freon) to exchange the heat into water heater tank. That seemed to die out for some reason. This puts the AC attached to water tank. Strange to me. Curious if it will work for you. Please keep us posted. Thanks for sharing.
Fantastic video Thanks a lot
I’m exploring different water heaters ideas to work with my solar
My normal water heater is killing my EG4 batteries like crazy
🤯🤯😳 wow 400 watts❕❕❕
That’s what I’m talking about I’m going to buy one tomorrow
Thank a lot buddy
Can you add a tip jar to your videos? I appreciate all the solid information you provide.
Nice video! Thank you. I am installing one and can’t find info about the small wires in the box on the water heater. Did you hook those up? Any idea what to do with them? One guy wired them right in with the 10 gauge.
Being in the mechanical contracting business and involved in design, build and maintenance of refrigeration equipment, it amazes me how easy it is to sell folks on the virtues of heat pump technology. But I have to say this is one area that may have a few stinkers involved. For instance the heat that is collected to heat the water has to come from somewhere in the vicinity of the unit. That means in heating season you will have an additional drain on your heat loss calculations. Then the area of maintenance where the heat exchanger draws air across to collect the heat, any airborne dust, dirt and grease will collect on the fins. This stuff will insulate the heat exchanger which will tend to produce a less efficient operation of the unit. Paying someone to do this maintenance or time spent doing it yourself needs to be factored in. There are other negative factors to consider as well. Wear on compressor and fan may require major repairs at some point in the life of this type device. Heavy load periods will still consume as much power (or maybe even more) due to necessity to cycle on the resistance heat elements periodically. Then there is the initial cost to purchase such a device which is significantly more than a straight electric hot water heater. All in all, it's a mixed bag that can wind up costing you more than you bargained for.
I do understand the heat loss issue during the heating months. For those months, I'll switch it back to heating elements as I was doing with my old off-grid 6-gallon heater prior. And yes, maintenance is a great point I didn't touch on that I should have - definitely need to keep the filter clean.
It would be interesting to see if the temperature in your basement is slowly getting down. You take the energy out of the air, so the air gets colder. After a few weeks even the floor should be cooler. Good for storing food, but bad for the heat pump (less efficient is temperature gap between hot water and air is too big).
Here in Germany we have similar heat pump water heaters. But they use vented air from toilet and bathroom. And they blow the cold air outside the house.
Rockwool sound dampening insulation in your subfloor will help with (basically eliminate) the noise concern in the bathroom.
Fiberglass has the same sound dampening properties and costs a lot less...
@@FJB2020 Both do a pretty good job at reducing sound. Rockwool is a little more expensive, but does a little better job of sound reduction. The reason I mention it, in this application, is that it's in-between a bathroom and a water heater. Rockwool is hydrophobic.
@@jasonbroom7147 That is true, if you want it for it's 'hydrophobic' properties than get it, but from my home theater building days, I can tell you there is nothing but hype surrounding that product. Rocwool and Fiberglass offer the same STC rating and unless they are used with some form of Mass Dampening or Isolation (or both) they don't do much. The cheapest most effective isolation is to use 5/8" type X drywall (not the LITE stuff), Fill the cavity with fiberglass (use the next R up from your wall depth IE R-19 in a 2x4 cavity or R26 in a 2x6 cavity ) and use acoustic caulk at all seams and joints.
@@jasonbroom7147 FYI I have taken out rocwool that was soaking wet, the air entrapment and tight weave of the spun slag holds water, even though it won't effect the insulation it will still mold up the drywall...
Any thoughts about reliability of these? The last I looked I saw many many negative comments regarding failed circuit boards and lots of start-up electronic code type issues. I do understand the longer term maintenance needs associated with keeping coils clean, etc. I was planning to install one in a south FL garage to replace an old standard electric WH with side benefit of cooling garage.
I've only had mine for a week, so I can't really comment on long-term reliability yet. I will certainly report back any issues/failures I find though. It seems to be working great so far.
When the water heater starts with a full tank of cold water it uses the resistive heaters to bring the whole tank up to a minimum of 40 celsius regardless of the mode. After that if you have it on heat pump only mode it should not do that again and will consume under 500watts
Thank you for this information. I wish they would include such details in the actual manual... lol. Their explanations of the modes were very vague.
Awesome video, I'm curious what temperature do you have it set to? I know that people will often alter the temperature because individuals in the house like a super hot shower.
Careful - many of those dehumidifiers which looked like that one were recalled for spontaneously catching on fire. Check your model #!!
Yes, I've checked that one many times - still not on the list luckily. Thanks though.
Is there a way that you could run this tank off a solar panel?
The hum heard upstairs could be vibration transferred through the emt conduit.
Many local power companies will give rebates on heat pump water heaters. City of Austin currently gives up to $800 IIRC
Yep, I need to check on this! I think mine is giving a$400 rebate plus a federal tax credit.
does the tablet software only work with the newest batrium, or does it work with previous models?
Great video!
It works with all versions of the Batrium. The software is Grafana and data is gathered using the UDP Listener github.com/Batrium/WatchMonUdpListener
Can you talk about pricing in the follow up and how does it hold up to expectations? You have a lot of hot water storage now, has it increase water temp stability?
He just did a follow up
Is a heat pump (smaller version) good for RV (hot water, heating)?
Heat pumps are incredibly efficient at heating and cooling. I'm not sure a heat pump water heater would work well in an RV though. I haven't seen many small ones on the market, typically they're 40+ gallons.
Great info. I have Batrium, but I’m not familiar with the GUI your displayed. How’d you get it?
It's something I built custom using a modified version of the UDP listener github.com/Batrium/WatchMonUdpListener and Grafana's free graphing software.
@@LithiumSolar Have you got a video about it? I like that you can see the different arrays and also total house consumption.
@@LithiumSolar I second this, I'd love to get more data out of my Batrium.
What was the tablet software you were using to measure everything?
The software is Grafana. It's installed on a separate server (VM in my case) and runs out of the web browser.
Hey, what size pipe are you using for the condensate drain? I’m buying one tonight.
3/4" and I believe that is the code minimum.
what is the model? the website IS denied homedepot
How has it held up so far
Could you have the collected water go to a Berkey filter? Could be an interesting off grid water source.
Condensate is not consumable. I have no idea what kind of bacteria could be growing on the coils, in the pipes, etc. I guess if you have nowhere else to get water (extreme drought or something), maybe if it was purified and boiled first? Idk. I wouldn't recommend it.
So it can be used but should definitely go through boiling or a filtration process first. Could be used as gray water for plants or other possible uses. cut it shorter and get a fernco coupling on the end with a lifestraw.
These are great units, I'm not sure why you would want to buy a regular electric unit if you can get this one. In CT where I live Home Depot sells this unit for like $350 or so (last I checked a couple of years ago) because of huge state rebate programs for energy saving projects. If you can install it yourself its a no brainer given the cost of electricity in CT (about 17 cents/KW currently and the electric company is always looking to hike that rate up to pad their pockets). Though, HD wants $1500 to install a new water heater which I think is obscene for a few hours of work in most cases. I will say mine generates a good amount of condensate in the summer when things get humid which is good for my basement.
Did it cool the basement any while heating water?
It feels cooler, yes. I didn't think to keep track of temperature before/after though so am not sure by how much.
Uhm, how is your basement heated? This seems like it'd become a big drain on your heating system instead. Most heat pumps i've seen have an external unit and pulls heat from there instead.
Yep in winter it will be a big drain on heat. That's when I would switch it back to the electric elements. In the summer, it's always warm and humid down there.
That's a first I didn't even know that kind of water heater existed
The main problem with those are the recovery rates when using the heat pump.. Will be interesting to see if you have to change your water usage habits to keep it from operating like a normal water heater.
I doubt he will have a problem since he has 100 gallons of hot water storage and only two people in the house.
Have owned one for 2+ years family of 5 with no issues if you time and limit the teenage showers.
@@zekeboz5533 are you running it off the heat pump only?
@@FJB2020 Yes, i use just Heat Pump. As the previous comment mentioned when you 1st commision the tank it'll use one of the elements until it reaches 60F or so then only the Heat Pump will run. You want to ignore the menu request to put it in HYBRID mode, which uses an element also. I believe Rheem requests that mode to cut down on customer complaints, "I ran out of hot water" . I also leverage an additional tank and boost the rheem temp to the max, 140. that way when there is any 'demand' the 140 water hits the secondary tank and helps 'warm' that water for a longer load like a shower. so far so good.
You think you could help me I got nine people in my family living at the house? Still is pretty cool water heater!
Where do you live? My local home depot has the anode rod and drain tube in stock and would have saved you a lot of money. Good video btw.
My HomeDepot sold an anode rod but it wasn't the anode rod I needed. The Bradford water heater has the rod attached to the hot water nipple. You have to replace the nipple/rod together. Most standard water heaters have a separate port for the rod, which is the one HomeDepot sells. The first plumbing store I went to looked at me like I didn't know what I was talking about, then eventually directed me to another plumbing store that specializes in Bradford heaters... Seems to me a good reason not to buy this brand of water heater again.
@@LithiumSolar Many times the brands or particular models sold + installed by professional plumbers use parts incompatible with standard hardware store parts. I have often seen it in the size of the element threads.
Instead of paying for an entire new heater (6gal) you could have ran one of the two elements with off-grid power. What's your heating system and location in the US? That type of water heater is truly preferred down south. The dehumidification will indeed help offset the running of the other system. At $1200 dollars for those hybrids, I find in most situations a gas tankless will have a far better ROI. Takaji tankless are $750.
The key point here is I need the water to heat off-grid. The electric element works great but eats electricity. I don't have gas service, so gas is either out of the question or would require a tank be installed. The tankless electrics are of no use either as I can't have 12kW+ randomly pounding my inverter (that's only 10kW). The hybrid seems like the best bet for my off-grid use :)
@@LithiumSolar Yeah if you don't have access to cheap natural gas then this is the best choice. Check out my other comment to see the reason the electric coils ran at the beginning. I install these fairly often and they have certain operations.
@@shawnd567 Has anyone asked you to install lower wattage heating elements in their hybrid water heater?
@@LithiumSolar It looks like you are going to leave the new hybrid water heater on all the time versus the 6 gal water heater that only came on when your batteries were fully charged. Is this true, or are you still testing?
@@uhjyuff2095 No.
v interesting, can you go into the physics of the heat pump?
I have a great understanding of how they operate, but not sure I have the exact terminology or physics down sufficient enough to be able to explain it in a video.
Check out Technology Connections double video on heat pumps, it's outstanding and everything you need to know.
How is the hybrid water heater holding up currently?
Still runs great. It's always in heat pump mode.
@@LithiumSolar Thank you.
Is that heated by evacuated tubes? And yes videos on off-grid stuff is good.
No, it's not a solar water setup. It's a heat pump that's run by solar power. A solar collector that transfers directly to water would be pretty cool though!
@@LithiumSolar Oh I see. I guess I didn't listen very well lol
Ho old was the rod?
5 years
why keep the second water heater connected and on grid? why not just use the new tank on it's own and run that off grid?
Because when I get 2ft of snow, there's practically no solar for a week or two.
@@LithiumSolar but then you could just use the normal elements in the hybrid tank. That is how it is meant to be used after all.
There is no logical reason unless you don't have an easy way to switch the power source for the Hybrid from your inverter to grid. if so then I get it.
A problem I see is that with your current setup you have to keep your grid connected unit power by grid all the time or you would have 40gallons of cold water.
Why not use the bypass function of your inverter setup so that when the battery goes low it switches to grid but doesnt charge from grid, and then WHEN you get a charge from solar it would switch over to batteries/solar again.
This question entered my mind as well. The extra 40 gal tank occupies physical space that could be freed up. Extra plumbing too. Would also free up a (double) circuit in the breaker panel. If anything, keep the small heater that you took out.
Making hot water using electricity is pretty inneficient. The hybrid water heater is a step up(it might pull heat out of your home in the winter making your heating system work harder). Heating water with traditional flat plate panels and a circulator pump is much more efficient. builditsolar is a good resource for water heating and space heating applications.
nice video, how about an efficient small hotwater heater review, for us off gridders.
In some hotter part of the world, the most common hot water system for showering is point-of-use 240V tankless system, they are rather affordable too.
Linked below is a 3.6KW system retails for about $68, I imagine it's pretty decent for off-grid use as it's only powered when needed.
www.panasonic.com/my/consumer/home-appliances/home-shower/non-jet-pump/dh-3rl1.html
These systems are not too popular in the US though, maybe they don't work too well for colder climate.
@@holmiumh Thanks. My friend uses a horse shower, reckons it was the best £80 he spent, although they are not rated for indoor use, and are gas powered, which isn't for me.
I'll be interested when they make a hot water heater refrigerator unit so I don't have to take heat from my house to heat my hot water in the winter 👍😂
I'd love to have one that's split so I can source the heat elsewhere too (like the shipping container!)
Where do you think the heat in your refrigerator comes from?
@@LithiumSolar So obvious question… Why did you go for this unit rather than a split?
@@calmeilles not obvious really. I've never seen those for sale anywhere here. Idk...
@@Sylvan_dB yes but in a perfect world you would be able to have one heat pump and direct it where you want it
It will also cool the basement.
Correct. One of the better ways to run these would be to duct it in and discharge the cool air upstairs.
@@shawnd567 Correct and with a damper or even a ball valve using PVC ducting etc. to prevent it from cooling upstairs in the winter.
A duct in/out with dampers would be a pretty perfect setup. I could have it conditioning the warm living area instead of the basement. I'm not fond of cutting duct-size holes through the floor just yet though...
@@LithiumSolar You might be able to connect it to existing return duct ? under floor ? Run intermittent fan etc.
@@teekay1785 I don't have ducting anywhere unfortunately. My primary heating is electric radiant (yes, it's very expensive).
I see some people replace the resistance element with a 240 volt light bulb or resister making a fake element so the heat pump thinks it's heating and runs.
The light bulb trick is good if you want to keep the water heater working in heat pump mode only. For example you are off grid and don't have enough electricity to supply 4500 watts continuously to heat water, but the drawback is if the "Smart" water heater decides it needs the resistive element to heat the water no water will be heated until it decides to use the heat pump again.
@@uhjyuff2095 Good to know but with the 50 gallon extra reserve he likely won't need more demand
@@offgridwanabe I think you are right, during the cold months when the heat pump is not working his grid powered 50 gal tank should be enough.
@@uhjyuff2095 I just put my grid tank on a timer so it runs from 11-3 every day when my Enphase grid ties are running and it saved me $50 a month
@@offgridwanabe Me too! great minds think a like. I also save $50 month.
Gosh, I just got one installed in a mechanical room and I have to say I want to return it. I have solar but not really any excess electricity left. The heat pump is SO noisy. Sounds like a war is going on. I had to turn it off completely and am using it only in electric mode (with the temperature down at 110). Very disappointed as I'm trying to be green. Maybe my only choice is to add more solar panels to offset electric usage. I can tolerate turning on the Heat Pump part to warm things up pre shower. I can hear the darn thing through two well insulated walls about 20' away. Insane noise.
That doesn't sound right at all... maybe it's defective? Do you have the same (or similar) model that I installed?
@@LithiumSolar I have the same one you have installed. Mine is fine in 'electric' mode but any other mode it is honestly intolerable. I've emailed the contractor but they haven't gotten back to me yet. : (
Not surprisingly, while this model sells for around 1500 USD, in Canada, the same unit goes for 2457 CAD (or around 2000 USD), and it's never in stock online or in store. I guess they really have no interest in selling them up here.
Good option if you don't have natural gas . But I am glad to have natural gas in my house. Quick recovery and inexpensive to operate .
Making hot water using electricity is pretty inefficient. The hybrid water heater is a step up(it might pull heat out of your home in the winter making your heating system work harder). Heating water with traditional flat plate panels and a circulator pump is much more efficient. builditsolar is a good resource for water heating and space heating applications.
"Making hot water using electricity is pretty inefficient." I disagree. "The hybrid water heater is a step up(it might pull heat out of your home in the winter making your heating system work harder)." I agree, he should install ducts to intake and exhaust to the outside.
@@uhjyuff2095 I heat a 5500 sq ft house and make hot water for eight people with $1450 worth of components using flat plate (water) collectors and a single circulator pump 75 watts. (Heated floors) The only time I have issues is when it is overcast for 4 days. Cheaper than the hybrid water heater I'd bet. Hot water from solar has a rapid payback whereas solar electricity does not typically.
@@allynonderdonk7577 His heat pump water is completely off grid which is powered by batteries and inverter and Pv solar panels. His Pv system is more expensive, but compared to your system his can make some hot water AND supply electricity to his home.
@@uhjyuff2095 Maybe...but chances are heating and cooling are more of a stretch. Can he heat his home on pv because most people can't. Lights, a refrigerator, maybe doing some laundry. I am talking about heating 5500 sq ft and hot water for eight on 1400 bucks. Typically that would be 60000 for a professionally installed pv system. See the difference.
@@allynonderdonk7577 No doubt your system is cheaper, and has faster payback. What size storage tank do you have for 8 people? And what size electric heating elements are installed in the tanks?
I don't understand why you've put the old electric tank in series with the new heart pump? Surely the heat pump is all you need, the old tank is just simply storing water and losing extra heat?
It's extra storage capacity, yes. You would be amazed at how little heat loss there is on a well-insulated unit like that, especially with a household of 4 using probably 2-tanks worth per day lol. I'll probably remove it at some point but it seemed silly to just throw it out when it still worked.
@@LithiumSolar ah ok kinda make sense now I was worried you would have heated water sitting in the non heated tank just cooling down like but sounds like you keep it flowing! :D I want to maybe try something like your old setup where I use a smaller tank before my boiler, heated by solar to take the chill off the water and reduce the amount of gas needed.
Fail my inspection...
The T&P relief valve must not have any reduction in pipe size, pex pipe is a significant reduction in size.
You need to replace that pex with copper, cpvc, or galvanized pipe.
I'm aware of the code requirement to not have a reduction in size on the relief valve. I used 3/4" pex on a 3/4" fitting, so there is no reduction of size here? The electric water heater was installed by a licensed plumber about 5 years ago and he used 3/4" pex on a sharkbite fitting too. Unless code has changed since then?
@@LithiumSolar the shark bite MAY mitigate the issue, traditional pex uses internal pipe fittings that reduce the internal diameter. If no insert was used with the shark bite, it should be ok.
check out off grid living really video One Year Off Grid Hybrid Water Heater Review. It will show you how to get around the high spike.
interesting
😎🖖✌👍👌😁
First to like
While these water heaters are awesome. It should be noted that when your furnace (or other home heating device) is running, it is heating the water.
I don't have a furnace in my home. The heating is all electric currently. I use a wood-burning fireplace insert to offset heating costs in the winter.
Don't get me wrong it's pretty cool and everything but man having your water heater connected to an app and Wi-Fi just seems like a bit much to me
You don't need to connect the wifi if you don't want to. It's not required for operation of the water heater. All modes can be selected using the buttons on the front. You just won't be able to do "smart" things like set up a schedule (I doubt most will use this anyway).
@@LithiumSolar well okay if everything is accessible from the onboard screen that is pretty nice. I do like that it is kind of low-powered for it being so "smart" as a water heater goes in the power saver modes. I look forward to seeing how it works in the coming weeks and how you like it. Keep up the good video's 👌
@@mindovermatter3988 The app allows you to track usage as well, complete with graphs. Not absolutely necessary but good info if you're into monitoring what's using how much electricity in your house.
Everyone should learn to shower with 68° fahrenheit temp. Also, ypir health will thank you.
Why would you want to shower in 68F water...? That's freezing cold.
1:15 Did you mean 1500 W (Watt) power OR 1500 Wh (Watthour) of energy? 🤔
It consumes 1500-1600Wh of power to heat the tank just like I said :) It's a 1650W element in that small tank.
Neat, I also have a Rheem. Mine's gas though.
Setting the temperature to less than 140 degrees F saves energy, it can cause legionella to grow in your water heater. If I was going to use lower temperature I would periodically raise the temperature to kill off the bacteria that grows in your hot water heater.
140F can scald you in 3 seconds. I can't take that risk with the family.
@@LithiumSolar Not if you use the correct faucets to limit the hot water
@@LithiumSolar or you prefer the long term method of poison
I prefer neither... I see your concern but have to wonder why everyone says to set them to 120F if it's so bad? Idk I'm not an expert here...
@@LithiumSolar Here are two articles that address both settings:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094925/
www.corroprotec.com/blog/hot-water-temperature/
Tankless is the way to go IMO
Tankless is not even considered viable by Energy Star. HPDHW is considered most efficient direct replacement followed by solar panels requiring expensive plumbing retrofit
@@jstaffordii mine uses a total of 50 cents a day in power, it's off when not in use....substantial difference then the 80 gallon I had prior
@@wantafastz28 I didn't say they don't work. I said they aren't rated by Energy Star. Due to the technically unlimited supply of hot water they can provide. Burner runs wide open when hot water called for and gas is available.
The electric tankless aren't practical for my use unfortunately. My primary interest is heating the water off-grid and I can't have a tankless randomly hammering my inverter with 12-15kW.
@@jstaffordii I guess that is where we differ, I dont care about energy star, it doesnt apply to me.
Pretty cool but I’ll still stick to gas