Stereo bass is OK

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024

Комментарии • 106

  • @OscarUnderdog
    @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +4

    Oscar's video courses ► courses.underdog.brussels 🖤🖤🖤
    Underdog Discord channel ► discord.gg/z5N9CTA 👾👾👾
    Face the Sun ► soundcloud.com/face-the-sun-be 🍎🍎🍎
    Patreon ► www.patreon.com/underdogmusicschool 🌱🌱🌱

    • @pauliedibbs9028
      @pauliedibbs9028 Год назад

      Not many .. if anyone .. has addressed this very common _tradition_ (I like to call it)
      Yes, it came from most club/PA equipment being unable to properly process studio bass (vs mono)... but another thing to note is that MOST equipment today actually does now support stereo/digital low (bass) frequencies!
      Thank you as always, however, for not just having a fantastic channel... but for an approach that does anything but make the listener/producer feel inadequate... or incapable!

    • @seemlyme
      @seemlyme Месяц назад

      Thanks

  • @1998Cebola
    @1998Cebola 2 года назад +9

    SOPHIE has some insanely low wide bass that is absolutely awesome

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +2

      +100 points for a SOPHIE reference ❤

  • @henrythe808th
    @henrythe808th 2 года назад +22

    Love the idea of seeing stereo width as a form of tension. It feels obvious but I never thought about it in that way before. This will be useful in making creative decisions!
    Thank you for the superb content as always. Really valuable 👊

  • @JonNeimeister
    @JonNeimeister 2 года назад +3

    Great video! I remember hearing Qveen Herby's "Sade in the 90s" for the first time like, "How is this 808 so... DIFFERENT???" and after some analysis discovered it was slightly stereo. Complete game changer, and really nice to know the vinyl reasoning why it's been such a mainstay rule for so long.

  • @haslo_
    @haslo_ 2 года назад +5

    What a great video to link every time anybody ever says "your bass is not mono" in the future 🤩

  • @DJMattHolliday
    @DJMattHolliday 2 года назад +1

    Another great video. Thank you Oscar. The clip of you dancing at the end - briliant!

  • @AUTOSAD777
    @AUTOSAD777 2 года назад +13

    I expect my tracks to be cut to wax cylinder (it's the future trend, trust me), so I just mono the whole mix. Much simpler.

  • @Elctrc
    @Elctrc 2 года назад +1

    Oscar, you do the best music tutorials! Thank you!

  • @BartWronsk
    @BartWronsk 2 года назад +4

    Hi Oscar, I think you missed an important point - without headphones, it is impossible to have a sound that is e.g. 100Hz and stereo. (I guess it is a mix of your points 1 and 2).
    Wait, what do I mean? A sound wave of 100Hz has a length of 4 meters! which means that human ears are only a fraction of it apart. If you force the the channels to be different, they will either phase cancel or not (I know you mention that in point 1). If they don't - it's not really stereo. If they do, you have to fix it.
    Basically, the physical limitations of the soundwaves in the air mean it is impossible to have a loud low frequency sound in stereo. This is also the reason for why subwoofers are in mono - both at home, and at clubs.
    It's worth emphasizing that music authored with stereo bass works stereo only in headphones (and with speakers at best you won't have stereo, at worst phase cancel - point 1).

    • @richierescue
      @richierescue 2 года назад

      Excellent point. Seems to fit with the other points regarding consideration of medium. ie: this is a technique only
      listeners on personal playing devices will be able to appreciate.

  • @russkidj19zeta7
    @russkidj19zeta7 7 месяцев назад

    i wanna say a great example of breaking the rule is david essex - Rock on... i love how the base shifts from one ear to the other then hits center...

  • @mohq9573
    @mohq9573 2 года назад +18

    andy stott does it a lot

    • @EggZema_
      @EggZema_ 2 года назад +2

      He is a legend

    • @setmabl1381
      @setmabl1381 2 года назад +2

      You're right.

    • @1xxe
      @1xxe 2 года назад +1

      hes a fucking master

    • @lewishamel8788
      @lewishamel8788 Год назад +1

      Faith in strangers got me through 1st year of uni

    • @chrischris05
      @chrischris05 Год назад +1

      We love andyyy

  • @hectore.zarraga7605
    @hectore.zarraga7605 2 года назад +4

    Hey Oscar!, love your tutorials man. They are incredibly helpful for amateur producers like myself. I wanted to ask if you ever think of doing videos with recommendations on how to publish or how to approach creating your own artist profile - I think hearing from your perspective on this would be really nice. Cheers from Spain

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +3

      Hey Hector! Great suggestion! I feel less confident at that side of things honestly, until I have more to show for myself as an artist :) maybe one day though!

  • @qasderfful
    @qasderfful 2 года назад +4

    There's one more reason to keep your subs in mono. Or rather, it's a generalization for the second rule. If you're too loud for your medium, bass is gonna push everything else into clipping, and it's gonna clip very differently from left and right. So for super-loud music, digital file becomes kinda like vinyl.

    • @qasderfful
      @qasderfful Год назад

      @@JimJohnMarks Because of phase ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      You know that lower frequencies need a lot more power to be on the same audible level as the higher frequencies, right? This means that with pink noise-like balance, mathematically speaking, low mids and bass amount to about 80% of your mixes power and dynamics.
      Say our bass is in counterphase and we clip the whole mixbus. This way, when bass on the right pushes the signal into the upper ceiling, bass on the left pushes the signal into the lower ceiling. And the next moment it's the other way around. This creates asymmetric clipping for all the other frequencies, that varies with audio rate. Add low mids to that and your signal and distortion pattern becomes completely unpredictable and your dymanics goes south.

    • @qasderfful
      @qasderfful Год назад

      @@JimJohnMarks What. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
      "Medium which lacks crossovers", my ass. A medium can have a frequency and phase response, or even affect dynamics, but not "crossovers". 2.1 system is not a medium, It's a sound reproduction system. A medium is a .wav file that's being fed into it.
      Try to push a mix with out of phase subs into a clipper to at least -6LUFS and hear for yourself what happens.

  • @bigwetsalmon1
    @bigwetsalmon1 2 года назад +10

    I forget sometimes that I've been producing music as a hobby for nearly 25 years now, every time I see one of your video titles I scoff, like, yeah, obviously. But then I realise how many people are where we were when we first opened up a DAW. Mad respect for teaching the important first lessons. I've always wanted to start a YT channel to impart all of my SONY ACID knowledge but I'm not sure enough people would care 😂😂

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +1

      😄 I remember seeing a Rusko video where he used that too!

    • @bigwetsalmon1
      @bigwetsalmon1 2 года назад

      @@OscarUnderdog haha holy crap I forgot about Rusko using ACID and his multiple mastering tracks 🤣

    • @lavenderllamamusic
      @lavenderllamamusic 2 года назад

      honestly, i don't think there's tons of ACID content, so you could definitely fill in that gap! You should go for it, always worth a shot

    • @DaveChips
      @DaveChips Год назад

      Would be nice to see that although I really hate Acid 😅
      I feel like it get along better with producing on LMMS...
      But in the other hand last time I used acid it was like 10-15yrs ago 🤔

  • @budsticky
    @budsticky 2 года назад +3

    Come for the educational tips. Stay for the funky dancing.

  • @joshuared1000
    @joshuared1000 2 года назад +2

    Great video!!!! love your work!!

  • @crimson3510
    @crimson3510 Год назад +1

    Great video Oscar...as always!🧨🧨🔥🔥

  • @ILAYRUNI
    @ILAYRUNI 2 года назад +2

    great stuff men thanks

  • @sweethockey28
    @sweethockey28 2 года назад +1

    Oscar, I have so much respect for you man and as always thanks for the content

  • @philipguerrero11
    @philipguerrero11 2 года назад +2

    GREAT VID AGAIN! has me thinking about the automation of width for short term tension (1-4 bars) and long term tension (verse to chorus or long builds/breaks) !
    and thanks for the free download of a couple of your face the sun tracks on soundcloud, radiant is one of my go to reference tracks now!

  • @stephanechataignie
    @stephanechataignie 2 года назад +2

    I can never wait for the next video 😛
    Thank you for all your amazing work and I'm a huge fan of Face The Sun, excatly the kind of dope I love ❤️️
    Peace ✌️🙏

  • @hughharsher
    @hughharsher 2 года назад +2

    This is fantastic!

  • @k8tisarobot
    @k8tisarobot Год назад

    I've mixed with Roland dimension or Juno style choruses on basses for years. Literally my favorite trick

  • @AvineshKamath
    @AvineshKamath Год назад

    Creativity has no limits! Thank you for another wonderful video! 🙏

  • @isotoxin
    @isotoxin 6 месяцев назад

    I have check the track Adriatique - Home (Mind Against Remix) in the Voxengo SPAN spectrum analyzer (mid-side parts) ant it doesn't look it has that much stereo in the low end. Actually it has a nice cutoff at 100Hz and the stereo part peaks at about -54db. For comparison, track Hof - Dark Passenger, have much louder low end stereo parts peaks at about -45db but the cutoff starts at about 125Hz and in the end the same 100Hz peaks at the same -54db.
    I'm currently searching for as much information as possible about the mid-side stereo discussion, because I have found out that analog DJ mixers actually adds a very distinct stereo bump at 50Hz up to the -51db.

  • @pabloqdx9837
    @pabloqdx9837 11 месяцев назад +1

    Oscar, you are amazing!

  • @guillaumebuanton3979
    @guillaumebuanton3979 Год назад

    thumbs up on this tutorial. As usual very well articulated and accurate explanation! Oscar you Rock! ♥🔮

  • @Tobi-oi3uf
    @Tobi-oi3uf 2 года назад +4

    Heck yeah! Hard-pan your kick all to the right!

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +2

      Definitely do that! 😁👍🤘

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +2

      Vincent van gogh approves 👂

    • @aqphen5341
      @aqphen5341 2 года назад

      Can bé creative in a build up to pan kick

  • @tuomasvilhelm
    @tuomasvilhelm Год назад

    Lots of wisdom here! However, I don't think we should put that much emphasis on about the mono compatibility in the sound design stage as the stereo bass with too much width can be phase-correlated with a mid-side filter like Volcano 3 very easily!

  • @sonicspecter
    @sonicspecter 2 года назад +1

    You should definitely check the low end in mono, because the target audience could use a frequency crossover with a mono subwoofer.

  • @synqelectric6163
    @synqelectric6163 Год назад +1

    a first when he played the track, it somehow sounded like some Amapiano-style track.

  • @jaysilence3314
    @jaysilence3314 2 года назад +1

    Great tip, as always. Thank you!

  • @EuphoriaLacrymosa
    @EuphoriaLacrymosa 2 года назад

    omg thank you so much for this. this topic always tripped me up 😅

  • @AbstraktMusicLab
    @AbstraktMusicLab 2 года назад

    Really nice explanation!!!!! Amazing video!

  • @jelledevries1201
    @jelledevries1201 Год назад

    Actually we had this discussion with a mastering engineer when I discovered a quite wide stereo bass or at least out of phase sounding and on the meters looking track (Tikiman Rhythm & Sound - Round 5) and did send him a prove that even on vinyl this somehow was realized.

  • @glensubtorq
    @glensubtorq 2 года назад +1

    Bass with Chorus is cool 😎

  • @lucasbergen_
    @lucasbergen_ 2 года назад +2

    Heerlijk dat je iedereen laat zien dat de regels er inderdaad zijn om te breken, zolang je er maar de essentie van in je achterhoofd houdt :) Klopt het nu ook dat de geluidssystemen in clubs etc. soms de output naar mono zetten?

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +1

      Sowieso denk ik dat je moet zorgen dat ALS dat gebeurt, het geen drama is voor je track :) even mono checken, thats all.

    • @lucasbergen_
      @lucasbergen_ 2 года назад

      @@OscarUnderdog Yess, top!

  • @3rdStoreyChemist
    @3rdStoreyChemist 2 года назад +2

    Number 2 is one of those myths which seems to have arisen from decades of both intentional misinformation and incorrect assumptions. It's quite a bizarre one as there's tons of records released which defy the rule (Listen to any Beatles album!). The RIAA Curve came about as a solution to the issue of things skipping, as well as a solution for other issues with the medium.
    Vinyl is more likely to skip through simply wearing out or being treated poorly than through mix decisions. Vinyl that I know to skip are not particularly bass heavy, they've just worn out from being overplayed or got scratched.
    It's mostly a psychoacoustic thing, we're less sensitive to the directionality of low frequencies and usually the purpose is to add 'weight' to a track, which gets lost when panned. That said, you'd actually get better phase coherence with hard panned bass than in the centre as additional speakers add phase issues in the room; hence the existence of pan laws.

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад

      I was hesitant about the vinyl point as indeed I’m just repeating something I’ve heard frequently but I’m not often working with vinyl production so there’s a risk there. Hope I’m not perpetuating myths!

    • @3rdStoreyChemist
      @3rdStoreyChemist 2 года назад

      @@OscarUnderdog Far from it!
      It's a commonly cited reason, just one that's not backed up as well as other reasons for keeping low end in the phantom centre.
      It's great to see people challenging this 'rule' and when it's sensible to break it.

  • @tollertyp7230
    @tollertyp7230 2 года назад +1

    Oh yeah! Let's talk about bass, baby😎

  • @marcophez6907
    @marcophez6907 2 года назад

    Great vid/tips- thanks pal

  • @fredscallietsoundman9701
    @fredscallietsoundman9701 2 года назад +1

    Reason for mono bass #2 is not only about vinyl: it's also about amplifiers and speakers. In a typical stereo setup (without mono sub, just two large speakers), you want the power equally distributed between left and right channels, to get the most power out of the sound system. (Ok, actually this is more an argument against panning, which would go against the symmetry you advocate for)
    Anyway, I was looking for an excuse to pan my bass (although I should know better) and this video isn't it. But congrats on sequencing the stereo width of your bass: it's super groovy.
    Here are my last two cents: you should try another pseudo-stereo plugin. With this one, the attack seems dulled a little bit when summing to mono. I'm sure there are ways of widening the bass that don't do that.

  • @timonkaipoumpa7927
    @timonkaipoumpa7927 2 года назад +1

    Hannes Bieger has supported this concept too.

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад

      Glad to hear it's approved by the greats then 😄

  • @samprock
    @samprock 2 года назад

    Your dancers are "living in stereo", mate! :)

  • @hydralicious9315
    @hydralicious9315 2 года назад

    Very nice. Thank you.

  • @mradamcshaw
    @mradamcshaw 2 года назад

    Nice outro!

  • @EggZema_
    @EggZema_ 2 года назад

    I also really like the Microshift to widen up my sound. But for me somehow it always doesn’t sound good when translated in mono. I wish that there was a “anti-phase” option that locks in delay times where the sound cancellation doesn’t occur.
    There is this free vst by Infected Mushroom called “Wider” where they kinda do that (it always sound good in mono). But I personally don’t like the sound of it.
    Another vst that does great stereo widening is Ozone Imager. It’s a bit more subtle but it works always really well in mono so you don’t have to worry about it.

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад

      I recently started using Voxengo PHA979 which has a little correlometer in it, where you can see when you're making things out-of-phase and in which frequencies. This helps find sweet spots much easier! I wish in retrospect I had included it in the video :D

    • @EggZema_
      @EggZema_ 2 года назад

      @@OscarUnderdog wow very interesting! Im going to try this out 😁

    • @MG53v8
      @MG53v8 2 года назад

      Yeah imager is awesome, very subtle

  • @avationmusic
    @avationmusic 2 года назад

    I took a mixing workshop a few years ago and the engineer saw there was quite a bit of stereo width in his low end. He reduced it, but not all the way. He said “sometimes a bit of stereo width is nice in the low end.” He never explained and I’ve always wondered why. Thank you 🙏🏼

  • @zeb8543
    @zeb8543 2 года назад

    I also made the experience, that too much stereo,or wrong (?) stereo made less impact to the groove and Style of the Song...A lot of good Songs are just in Mono and have not that much Stereo information, because of Impact i think.... So, do whatever is good for your Track, what feels good.. Best Tipp: Listen LOUD ! That means, between having a Studio, where you can do this , or "just" in your bedroom, there are worlds between, not with feeling, but with Impact and mixing. I mean, why would you make Techno on silent boxes, it has to be played loud !! So: produce Loud !! just imho....

  • @lineoffside
    @lineoffside 2 года назад

    Thx🤙🏼

  • @finnebassen1438
    @finnebassen1438 Год назад

    It is indeed ok… i do it alot!

  • @alphastar5626
    @alphastar5626 2 года назад

    Puttin mono just after doing the Haas Effect always make the sound almost cancelled most of the time for me 🥲 even with noizy sounds like claps or wavy sounds like bass

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +1

      Try different lengths of haas! And check a correlometer like voxengo PHA979!

    • @alphastar5626
      @alphastar5626 2 года назад

      @@OscarUnderdog thank you so much for the tips professor underdog you’re the best 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽❤️ I watch all your videos

    • @vaina2
      @vaina2 2 года назад +1

      yeaah longer haas will help, also fucking with one of the channels to change its sound works too

  • @AN-ly6pf
    @AN-ly6pf 2 года назад

    hi, i would like to have a question. i want to record a live play in ableton activating or deactivating the tracks in session view with my lounchkey midi keyboard. the problem is that when i press record in session view all the tracks are being recorded in the arrangement view even though the track activator is not activated. or there is no option for that?

  • @howtotrainyourdragon4806
    @howtotrainyourdragon4806 2 года назад +1

    Any ideas on how to do it with ableton plug-ins instead of using microshift ?

    • @hughharsher
      @hughharsher 2 года назад

      exactly my question. I got the best results when putting a haas effect on the tom/bass with L 0ms and R 2-20ms delay. The right channel delay is modulated very slowly with an LFO tool to stay between 2-20ms. Then put a small reverb on the end of the chain. It's pretty good so far but not as good as the plugin

    • @howtotrainyourdragon4806
      @howtotrainyourdragon4806 Год назад

      @@hughharsher here is my way to do it: try the haas effect with a 8 to 10 ms delay in one channel and flip the phase with a utility plugin so it does not cancel the phase when converted to mono. you can also manipulate the pitch by using a shaper and mapping it to the fine tune control of the sample or instrument

  • @yonidynamite739
    @yonidynamite739 Год назад

    Hey Oscar, what is the ID of the track at the end? I just tried to shazam it for an hour and I cannot find it! Thanks :)

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  Год назад

      Its a face the sun track im working on ☺️ follow us on soundcloud!

    • @yonidynamite739
      @yonidynamite739 Год назад

      ​@@OscarUnderdog Uuh, nice! I'm really looking forward to it's release then! (I'm already following you on soundcloud😉 )

  • @DJOZER5
    @DJOZER5 Год назад

    Stéréo!🎶✨✌🏾

  • @semsmeb9745
    @semsmeb9745 2 года назад

    theres another reason to keep your bass mono if you want to play your music on large sound systems: most club pas have their bass in mono and if you have bass elements in stereo, theres gonna be phase cancellation. so its kind of reason one to keep your bass in mono...everyone i talked to about this has another approach though

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +6

      Like I say in the video: if you sum your channels to mono, and the phase cancellation doesn't cause problems, then there's nothing to worry about :)

  • @julianzmo903
    @julianzmo903 2 года назад

    Where’s the
    tu tu tu tu tututu? >;(

  • @jadenschulz1004
    @jadenschulz1004 2 года назад +2

    FOIST

  • @jankalinowski6767
    @jankalinowski6767 2 года назад

    Ha ha Here in Germany we have a Community it xal Sinee.. and WE say stereo Police ! When ITS Not Mono compatoble !

  • @pclairoot
    @pclairoot 2 года назад +3

    Generally it is not.Phase issues and take a lot of energy for the rest of the mix.

    • @vaina2
      @vaina2 2 года назад +7

      Lots of misconceptions like this regarding bass. Some say a stereo is a bad idea, and that it might scare away the fish. I personally think it's fine to blast your tunes as long as you're having fun! Catching bass isn’t that difficult. With the right gear, it’s actually relatively easy. So don’t think bass fishing is only for elite or highly experienced anglers. At the most basic level, all the budding bass angler really requires is a light rod and reel, some suitable line and a smallish lure. Any lure that’s designed to be used in a river or a dam will catch a bass sooner or later, if you try long enough.

    • @Oberjin
      @Oberjin 2 года назад +1

      @@vaina2 bruh

    • @OscarUnderdog
      @OscarUnderdog  2 года назад +2

      This is the correct reply 🐟

    • @vaina2
      @vaina2 2 года назад +5

      @@OscarUnderdog People are really stressing about "phase issues" and whatnot regarding bass, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support the lunar phases having any effect on largemouth bass' movements and feeding cycles🤔 Thanks for the bass tutorial underdog these beginner anglers will be needing it! :)

    • @pclairoot
      @pclairoot 2 года назад

      @@OscarUnderdog Dank u vel mylord!