1958 Plymouth VERSUS Edsel... Shoot out!
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- The recession and the looks would be a double whammy of death for the Edsel? Was the styling unique? Good bad? Plymouth goes toe to toe against the lower end Edsel... Ford was desperate to compete with a upper range brand as those brands themselves were dying off( Desoto, Olds...)... GM had the money to keep Oldsmobile on for quite some time... Chrysler didn't have those deep pockets...
History showed that both cars suffered a double whammy. The '58 Plymouth looked better than the 1957, in my opinion--but the build quality of the 1957 Chrysler lineup on all price levels was such that word-of-mouth killed many potential 1958 Plymouth sales. And I remember seeing replacement patch panels for 1957-58 Chrysler cars advertised in auto body trade magazines as early as the first months of 1958. And Edsel suffered the same build quality in the early '58 models, and considering Ford had made much of Edsel being totally new and thoroughly tested before the first car was placed on sale, that same of word-of-mouth discouraged potential Edsel customers (if the styling didn't turn them off)
In retrospect, Edsel was a failure before it hit the showroom floor. Defects aside, the marketing data was faulty, the economy went into a recession and infighting between Ford and Edsel executives all contributed to its failure.
I would like one of each, please, and both with factory air conditioning. Actually, I would like a 58 Desoto Adventurer.
Double that order, I'd like the same things, please!
Make it a triple!
1:23 Edsel meets Christine!! 😮😮😱😱
It's the 'Utopian Turtletop' vs Christine. FoMoCo hired poet Marianne Moore to come up with a name for the line of cars that eventually became Edsel. She famously said/wrote, "May I suggest 'Utopian Turtletop?'
Why would you compare a Plymouth with an Edsel? The Plymouth was a low price car and the Edsel was more midrange. All things considered.
All the big 3 did this... Compare their upper low priced model to mid tier.... Ford compared itself to Dodge.
@@autochronicles8667I remember that Chevy compared itself to Oldsmobile or Buick years ago. They were the same car with just a different name plate.
If Ford wanted to take 😂on a mid priced Chrysler make it should have been Dodge or DeSoto.......Oops that should have been Mercury!!!!!.
@@danlewis3605 I've got a well-preserved 2-door Fury for sale, painted a custom-ordered Autumn Red. She's a sweet runner, but the odometer goes backwards for some reason.
@@glennso47 That kind of depends on how long ago you're talking about. Up until (approximately) the mid-80s, all the GM passenger car divisions made their own distinct engines. When I worked at an auto parts store with a buddy of mine, a guy walked in asking for parts for 'a 350.' We asked him what year and what type, but he insisted all 350s were the same. So he left with parts we had picked out across all the divisions over a span of over 30 years. Needless to say, he soon returned. He was displeased, but did finally admit that 350 ci GM V8s were NOT 'all the same.'
Chryco had a LOT of problems with the '57s and buying a '58 would've been a leap of faith that they had worked out the first-year bugs.
True, but Ford had a lot of QC problems with Edsel, in addition to its weirdness and poor timing.
@@seed_drill7135 that shifter was always broke...
@@seed_drill7135 the biggest problem was that it was just another mid size car...and the weird grill! 😀👍
That really chilled the sales of the improved 58s, over and above the 58 recession. Chrysler never regained their reputation after that.
You can blame Robert S. MacNamara for that. He ordered a production speedup.
I love both of these cars, but I'd have to choose the Edsel. My dream car. I just love how weird it is. (Although I'd rather have a citation/Corsair vs a pacer/ranger...)
If you are going to actually get a a first year Edsel, be ready to have to completely redo the transmission on it, and then you are going to have to cut the holes in it to put the shifter in one and you are also going to have to replace the steering wheel.
I had 3 Edsels,a58 and 2 59s.
I can find running, fairly original Edsels, for sale, quite often. Those Plymouths, of the same time period, are very hard to find. Mostly because they rusted away, early on. The 1958 Ranger/Pacer had a 303 HP FE engine, standard. What was the standard engine in the Plymouth, a flat head six, or 318? You had to order a super rare 2x4 barrel, 305 HP, 350 B block, to beat the Edsel.
@@bobtepedino5661 Who said anything about Fuel Injection? Both series came with a Holley 4150 4 barrel Carburetor. The engine designation FE, stands for Ford/Edsel. Named for the car lines used in.
The Christine movie has higher interest in the Plymouths... So i think that affects the availability\value.
These films are awesome. Automakers should compare like this today! At least Edsel didn’t have the rust problems Chryslers did. Bad news either way Chryslers. And the Fordomatics held up much better than Powerflite. The Teletouch was not good but the transmission was great. 59 and 60 model years were just a Ford. No issues there. Either way either of these are better than anything new. Old is Gold!
The 58 Plymouth had "torqueflites". 3 speed with a park.
Love the Plymouth!
I'll take the Edsel
You do know that this car had a factory mistake in it that turned it into a giant paperweight right?
1957-1959 Plymouth. My absolute favourite car.
Back in the early 60s my brother bought an Edsel hardtop 361 engine with 3 on the tree. It was black and white. I was just a young kid but I loved cars and I loved that Edsel.She was a strong runner!
Some of the most beautiful grills found on cars of the past are vertical !
In the end, Edsel didn't give Plymouth (or any other make) much to worry about.
4:07 Is it my imagination or does the Edsel look like it's had some fender benders and the repairs were done rather shoddily? Note the wrinkle toward the rear of the front wheel-well, the highlight from the A-pillar at the front door sort of fades below the color cove, and what's going on behind the parking light below the _Ranger_ script? and the paint appears to be faded already, not a good look for an all-new marque.
I noticed that also... not sure what's going on with the car... I wasn't sure if it was just the film? but something definitely looked hammered.
My dad had a 1958 dodge coronet, no problems, only regular maintenance.
I'm sold! I'll take a red two door please!
Would you like fries and a coke with that? 😊
Fun! Thanks.
The Plymouth was, by far, the prettiest car from 1958. A genuinely perfect design.
One of my old co-workers bought a brand-new 1958 Edsel. He happened to have a friend who was a law enforcement officer in Washington state. This officer, upon learning that my co-worker had acquired a '58 Edsel, called him up and asked him to come and race with his cruiser, a race my friend's Edsel won handily. The officer explained that a statewide bulletin had been issued to all law enforcement agencies specifically forbidding them from engaging in high-speed pursuits with the new Edsels because they were too fast. Fun Fact: FoMoCo engaged poet Marianne Moore to provide a name for the car line that eventually became Edsel; she famously said/wrote 'May I suggest 'Utopian Turtletop?' (Personally, I think she had something going, there.)
And I want to grab the violin providing that obnoxious string-pluck that accompanies every new point and jam it down the first available garbage disposal. AAARGH!
I can't edit out the ping, would take forever. They gave the Edsel some real power in 58... And then promptly removed it... The Golden Commando Plymouth would still beat it though... But those were pretty rare, but the 58 Edsel was no joke.
@@autochronicles8667 Oh, I wasn't asking you to edit it out. I was just sending a message to the filmmakers of 66 years ago that they shouldn't use that effect in any future - or past - productions. Cheers.
All 1958s looked good with those double headlights.
They were called "dual headlights" and were illegal until 1958.
As the owner of an Edsel I found this interesting.
Yeah its rare to see the Edsel in a comparison, this is the only one I believe. I would love to find a 59 Edsel comparison. Ill check my Ford and Chevy films in depth for more Edsel stuff.
all things said, i would still want to buy a Plymouth today! :)
As a GM guy I'd say the Citation was better looking and a Pacer with E475 would take out a Fury. Both suffered QC issues, Chrysler Corp. QC had deteriorated and Edsel had first year production problems
58 Plymouth had the fixes in place mostly... Not sure about any Edsel taking out Fury either. Edsel did have its first year issues...
The steering wheel on the Plymouth is right in your view of sight
good point, but this is true of every steering wheel on every car I have owned.
As a ‘58 Plymouth owner, no, it is not.
Even as a kid, when these were new, I thought, Wow! about both, but for different reasons. The Edsel is just so different that it is kool, and the 57 Plymouth was so bad quality, I probably would have been afraid to trust the 58. I think the Edsel Pacer would have been for me, and if I had Oldsmobile money, a Corsair or Citation. Those were the big Mercury-based Edsels.
The 57 was rushed and they addressed the quality issues in 58.
@@autochronicles8667 Those 57 ChryCo cars were supposed to have come out in 58, but they saw what Ford had up their sleeve, so they rushed-introduced them for 57. They were actually mass-produced prototypes.
I liked the Edsel. Clearly I’m part of the minority!
It certainly didn’t look like anything else.
I love them BOTH!! I'd have either one as my daily driver!!
too bad chrysler's forward look cars didn't run as well as they looked. like the way they fess up to comparing low end model edsel to high end plymouth.
They ran and handled great. But the first-year 57s were pretty bad. Chrysler never really recovered from that.
Thanks Plymouth, very convincing film. I'll take the Chevy please.
I didn't know theEdsel was a low price car.
they made a low end model.
My money's on Christine.
Many thanks to all those 1958 Plymouth folks that contributed to this record/slide show! Certainly convinced me...
The people who made this are probably pretty old now.
Give me a 1958 Studebaker Golden Hawk.
Very cool car... Many people left them to rot but they are coming back... hard as heck to find parts for.
With the exception of the electric shifter mechanism, the Edsel was a mechanically more reliable car than the Plymouth. Plymouth sold seven times as many cars in 1958 as Edsel, (but that includes police and taxi models that Edsel didn't cater to) yet you can find '58 Edsels just as easily as '58 Plymouths. The survival rate would seem much higher.
More expensive cars are typically maintained and cared for/retained more. Cheap cars are always disposable... people didnt realize... WHo knows maybe those 1980 Ford escorts will become collector items? EH... probably not :)
The electrical shifter mechanism (built by Borg-Warner and also used on Packards, Mercurys and Lincolns) powered the transmission shift cable with a starter motor. On hills while in park, the motor trying to unlock the heavily loaded parking sprag would burn up.
@@autochronicles8667 ...Maybe the Lynx...
@@Greatdome99 False information. Edsel was it's own system. No shift cable.
If you didn't like the Edsel I have one thing to say. Alot of the new cars today have way more ugly grill and body then Edsel ever had.
I have a 58 Edsel Corsair. It's a pretty iconic car. But it is not a particularly good driving car. My 65 Galaxie is much more comfortable to take on long drives
You don't care for how your Edsel drives?
@@jamesbosworth4191 on a straight line on smooth road? It drives pretty well. The springs are very soft and it bottoms out easily on rough roads and it acts like the car is shaking apart. The seats in the car are pretty thin and don't have much padding so they are too comfortable after an hour of driving.
@@davidsmith-hb1jx You probably need better shocks. Strange that the seats are thinly padded, as cars like that normally have luxuriously padded seats.
Why would I choose the Edsel when my new 58 Plymouth can rebuild itself whenever it gets worn out?
Plymouths front end treatment is pleasing.
Yeah huge complaints from the lower 57 grill... people were LIKE WTF!!
If Edsel Ford was still alive he never would have allowed this, or anything like this, and certainly not with his name on it.
In trying to honor the memory of Edsel Ford, they almost broke the brand, and probably would have, if not for Fairlane, Thunderbird, and the various truck lines.
Those Plymouths were cars that I owned back in the day. I have had two 57s, a 58, a 59, and two 60s. Like most cars back then, they had their share of problems, but those problems were found in most brands and models. Those cars required a LOT of maintenance. Things like tires, shocks, brakes, batteries, and many more things were normally only good for one to three years. You changed your oil every 2,000 to 3,000 miles and there were sometimes DOZENS of zerk fittings under the car that you injected grease into whenever you had the oil changed.
Cars did NOT have radial tires then. Bias ply tires were all you could get; and the best were good for 15,000 to 20,000 miles. 6-cylinder motors had all the cylinders in a straight line and were good for about 50,000 miles. A V-8 was good for about 100,000 miles.
The Plymouth did have a good ride when it was new BUT the rear springs were so weak that they often needed to be replaced after a couple of years. Otherwise, your back bumper could be dragging on the ground.
The V-8 engine in the above Edsel got 8-10 MPG.
Yeah many of the "issues" are being exaggerated by the Ford/Chevy guys :)
My gramma tradewr a 1954 New Yorker Coupe for a 1958 Belvedere..With the new torsion bar suspension the car virtually leapt. NO SQUAT!
Yeah the torsion air suspension feels like modern cars of today, it was a big leap in ride quality.
I am a chrysler child. I grew up on plymouths and dodge. Owned several myself. Still drive a 2006 dodge charger.
A '58 Edsel Ranger vs a '58 Plymouth Belvedere. what a comparison!
Yeah this is a great one
I have both models both are nice in their own ways
Interesting, I had both (58's). I'd say the Edsel was better and I'm a MOPAR guy.
Better how? :) just saying "better" doesn't give me any clue :)
@@autochronicles8667 other than Fins, Ply was a plane Jane. The Ford drew attention, even stopped once by Highway Patrol just to look at it. Was differently a step up. I sold it to a movie studio.
Oh my! ".. unadorned sheet metal ".... something you just didn't do in 1958! 😂
I would love to get 1 of my grandmother's 3 Edsels back on the road. A Pacer wagon in the backyard. A Ranger in the garage attack and 1in storedge.
Christine 4ever!!!
With vacuum operated windshield wipers, the speed of the wipers will slow dramatically when the manifold vacuum is low, such as at a stop light or any time the engine is at idle speed. Not good!!
Yeah can't believe people used vacuum anything for as long as GM/Ford did... It was CHEAP though...
IMO, I prefer the Edsel
The Plymouth is superior, even though it is considered a lower-line brand.
But what about fuel injection?
I misunderstood: it was FE that was mentioned, not FI. I shouldn't comment in the wee hours...
Sorry Christine rules❤. Edsel 😅😅
The front on view alone of the Ford product convinces me. Gaze upon the ugliness. The longer you look the more you’ll want the Plymouth. 😂😂😂
I owned a 1958 Edsel Ranger and my dad had a 1958 Plymouth. I will stay with the Edsel. It's much nicer to drive and to ride in and had better performance.
Why not both?!
Why not both?!
Why not both?!@@Colorado_Native
@@Colorado_Nativelol, Grab any Period Car mag and find Out, that what you Said is wrong. Best Performance, best Auto trans, best Suspension system goes to Mopar. Btw, i Drive a 60 Fury golden Commando for 36 years over here in Germany and it still smokes and out handles Most of the new Cars. Car is still going strong at 370k miles. Contemporary Ford and GM products are no match. It's Like night and day.
A side by side look really flatters Plymouth.
67 years later and this video still holds true.
And I dont even need it to sway me, Chrysler starting in '57 & '58 knocked everyone back on their heals, not just woeful Edsel. Even a "lower" Plymouth was way better looking than $$ Olds & Buicks of same years.
Yeah it certainly shook GM up...
Interesting that Plymouth, a "value" brand (Chrysler's cheap brand) is being compared to Edsel, a medium range brand. That would be like comparing a Chevrolet to a Buick.
I would've thought they would do Desoto vs Edsel or Dodge vs Edsel.
The brands often compared their lower brands to the upper brands bottom tier car. There may be an Edsel vs Dodge film... but I have never seen it, these are super rare.
@@autochronicles8667 I believe it, but that just seems silly to me. Folks who are in the market for a mid-priced marque are obviously trying to get as close to luxury as they can.
While the Plymouth has comparable, if not some superior offerings to Edsel (which again, likely going to be on other Chrysler products), those in the mid-range aren't going to want to be seen in the cheapo marque.
I'll never understand marketing.
i'm guessing the guy who designed the grill of the Edsel came up with the idea while he was at the urinal in the men's room. Just sayin'....
Ohh... dem's fighting words :)
Edsel competed against DESOTO, not Plymouth. Plymouth was the entry level vehicle that competed against Ford. Not even a comparison. .
The manufacturers of Ford, Plymouth and Chevy always compared their top models to the base models of Mercury, Dodge, Pontiac/Oldsmobile. That is why Dad bought a Plymouth Belvedere instead of aDeSoto Firesweep. Basically the same car with many more features on the Belvedere
@@eugenepiurkowski5439 the cause of brand dilution.
Yeah brand perception.
Vs Delorean please
I'll work on it :)
Ah yes Chrysler Proving grounds, Chelsea MI
Both junks but I would drive either to be gawked at...
junk? Hardly SIR!
all this hype by plymouth...yet i noticed they skipped over the point of rear view mirror ....plymouth is mounted on the dash in a stupid position ..what where they thinking....i'll take the edsel
I think that is a minor point... The dash mounted rear view mirror was a bad idea, but you could buy a room mounted mirror kit pretty cheap if that was your only reason for buying an Edsel :)
@@autochronicles8667after 36 years almost daily driving a 60 Fury, I see no Problem with the dash mounted mirror and it is easy to Change.
I always preferred a dash mounted mirror! I found I could see what was going on behind me without taking my eyes off the road to check. 🤷♂️
@@larrynason8716 that is true but it might be a problem for shorter drivers, since the seat adjustment is limited in these cars.
2:17. Say hello to the lips of Deloris.
I'll take the pretty Mopar over the ugly Ford.
I've owned both. I give the nod to Edsel for only one reason:
Mopar tragically had the WORST brakes in the industry.
Really? I had never heard that. What Mopars did you own that had those worst brakes?
yeah this usually seems to be a maintenance issue, I always hear "XYZ" brand had horrible brakes...
@@eugenepiurkowski5439 1961. Ask any Mopar owner.....you start slowing down at the exit sign off the highway......and by the end of the ramp have no brakes.
@@autochronicles8667 Not maintenance pal. Design.
@@67marlins Okay, I am a Mopar owner of many Mopars going back to the early 60s. No issues with brakes. In our state we have annual state inspections and brakes are replaced when they wore down. Never heard of any Mopars having no brakes at the end of a ramp. Can you share some statistics?