Since discovering your channel a few days ago, ive LOVED the incredible focus on all the aspects. Im in this clip precisely because of the controversy over Lamashtu-Lilith. For me, i work directly with Lilith (sun, mon, wed, and friday), Beelzebub (thursday), and Qalilitu (Tuesday). On the new moon i work with Hekate (she told me straight off we weren't going to work together directly, but to kind of sort of 'keep one another in mind). Anyways, thats the preamble. I loved listening because you're one of the few to bring up Qali. I dont directly work with Lamashtu. But im gonna give you four UPGs. Which are all nonsense of course. But its because you've made a case that now confuses me a teensy bit :) (obviously this is gonna be long and rambling - but hopefully fun - i'll break each encounter into a separate reply to make it less obnoxious). I just got to the part where you pointed out the overlap between Lamashtu and Agrat Bat Malat and was just kinda hoping youd square the circle for me. Aspects are like a game of telephone in my naive brain. First meeting with Lamashtu. Arguably the first aspect Lilith introduced me to. It was about 2 months in. I was doing my usual bedtime meditation (using the enn to slip into dream land - as i do almost every night even now), and was told there'd be a visitor and prepare myself. I briefly introduced myself. Lilith asked me to show what i could do (it sounds dumb a year and a bit later), but i released energy from my heart chakra (im aphant, one of the few things i can "see" is energy release like a smoke pouring into my visual field from the point im working with - at that time, my heart chakra was particularly strong - im so sorry for all the pointless detail). Lamashtu never seemed convinced but i guess felt potential. So they chatted. I was directed to just keep doing what i was doing. I realised this was an observation more than an interview :P I drifted in and out of consciousness, and eventually it was just me and her. She immediately told me Lilith wasnt there to protect me anymore. I made some solipsistic argument i forget about why this doesnt make sense (im sure i journaled it and can provide it if necessary), and she, i guess, realised i had a bit of fight in me or something and departed. I drifted off to sleep and awoke to three... nu mou (final fantasy) figures traipsing across a plain. I literally saw them (hypnopompia). I audibly screamed and they vanished (as if someone genuinely shut off the projector). Prior to this moment i have never experienced hypnopompia (im assuming after the event, this is what it was). I dont think it was real. I think i was dreaming (i had sleep paralysis from the age of 13 to about 23 when it suddenly stopped - at this point im 47). But its curious this happened on that night... or not.... i mean, its the early experience of Lilith and things can get wild when your imagination hasnt yet met the pure mundanity of spiritual practice. Anyways, three wise nu mou with a donkey or a camel on the second one (who was also noticeably taller than the lead). Oh, i forgot to mention. I wanted to know who this person was before naming her. I was never told. Instead, as seems to be the practice, i was encouraged to figure it out. I was given a clue though: A flash of a single 3 storey circular temple like structure in a desert. A temple no one could ever visit: Its Lamashtu! So thats UPG 1. Please forgive my shaggy dog story. :) What i learned: She is super authoritative. She has sway. She will 'play/toy' with you. She likes when you have a bit of feistiness about you. She is very tied to Lilith. Even if she is suspicious, she seems to follow Lilith's lead (the amount of times she has directly told me she couldn't care less about me, but 'so long as Lilith is happy...') Anyway, part 2: Lady Damascu
For the first few months there was this path to Lilith's domain. i followed it often; usually hypnagogically (basically hungover). Id wake up around 5am, browse reddit a couple of hours, then meditate to try and 'play' with Lilith. Only now im suddenly not burdened by aphantasia. I could see shit. To be clear, this is months 1-3: After that, nada (i mostly drift into dreams). But one of those times Lilith was guiding me and took me to a door. She told me to be on my best behavior. This was clearly someone she had the UTMOST respect for. I met someone i could only describe as a grandma with a pointy witch hat. I gave you the nu mou reference before, i now give you the master matoya reference from ff14 (i know theres a lot of final fantasy here, but thats the brain for you - we reference and make sense of things through our established associations - so this is master matoya). I remember saying something very stupid right off the bat and her suddenly moving into my face with the sharpest razor teeth to scare me a bit... then telling me she just wanted to scare me a bit. Im terrified and not putting another foot wrong. Okay, now we're about to get weird. So Im with Lilith, Qalilitu and this person i am very scared of. She introduces herself as Lady Damascu (thats what i heard and inspired the later search). She literally reads my mind, says im trying to say Lady Domitrescu (Resident Evil Village) and immediately im now seeing Domitrescu. God, should i be telling you this? For some reason or other, im now an otter. Once again they are all talking about me and im not privy to the conversation. Im just running around (particularly Domitrescu) having a wild old time. Everything ends, im ported back, and awake (there was more - but it was established (after the event) bullshit. For a couple of days im trying to work out who it is that Lilith has such reverence for. I type in damascu and get 'did you mean damascus?'. So now im looking at syrian deities. I eventually think "Did i just meet Ishtar?" Less than a week later im in a meditation with Lilith and she puts the kybosh on the Ishtar/Innana connection. "You've already met her". Oh god, its Lamashtu, isnt it? I feel a nod of approval.
Lesson 3: I got it in my head that the path to Lilith is hypnagogic. And this usually involves a hangover. I had a week off during chuseok, so figured id take the opportunity and try to force the connection. By day 4 i was an exhausted wreck. I remember doing my meditation and saying 'i dont know why im doing this, i just want it to stop, but i need to push!' So i pushed. And on that morning i slipped into meditation and was met with Lamashtu instead of Lilith or Qalilitu. She just wanted to play. She liked that i was obedient and compliant. She just wanted to drain me. Ive been drained before. It was fun if exhausting for a couple of days. I thought i was about to get the ride of my life. Instead i felt... it wasnt remotely sexual. I felt the strand pulling from me and for a fraction of a second it genuinely felt as if my heart stopped. Now obviously, mundane before magic. I was terrified. Im literally dealing with Liber Lilith things here. The punchline is Lilith warning me in the meditation later that evening about over exerting myself. Perhaps that wasnt her exact words, they're lost to memory. Her point though wasnt lost to memory: Take care of your health and your boundaries because you will get exactly what you desire should you request it. Actually her point was this: there's only so many times you can do this before i have to accept it's what you truly want. Lilith said this. Lamashtu in this specific case delivered the lesson.
Encounter 4: Okay, im a mess of a human being. I tried to reach Lilith through extra substances. I would drop, then meditate, then drop then meditate etc etc. Around day 4, i was met with Lamashtu. And im obviously wrecked. Just like last time, she wasnt remotely on my radar (i work with Lilith, Qali and Beelzebub). She just appeared. And she was delighted to push me. And im not gonna lie, i was so happy she was there. I love every single time she shows up. Call it a death drive or destrudo or whatever. My feeling when she shows up is pure excitement. I am diligently meditating between every drop. I am stoic as shit. She isnt doing anything but watching and waiting. Eventually i push a little too far. And then it begins: Hypnosis. Its nothing you would ever (in this moment) refuse. Shes just asking you IF you want to go deeper. And of course you do. And i did. And now im completely out of my depth. For some reason or other, i suddenly in the midst of a dream (im fast asleep) see three snarling, rabid dogs, teeth bared, coming toward me to bite me and immediately ping awake. Hekate. So i work with Hekate, i work with Lilith. Neither seems to have a claim of authority on the other. Thats not the point, though i really wanted to mention it :P... the point is, this all could equally match agrat bat mahlat?
If it helps, I dont meet Lamashtu as part of a consistent practice. Aside the first two times (and the third, unexplained as yet time*), i usually meet her as an aspect of Lilith when im sliding off the path. She's often sent as a warning to reign in my impulses and indulgences. *The third time she was a source of total wisdom and calmed my emotional reaction to see reason. I wish i could tell you this experience. Its so long, but also explains why i work with Lilith (and why i also treasure every single encounter with Lamashtu despite how negative it currently appears - i adore Lamashtu even though i dont work with her - but i also assume she is a face of Lilith - a very severe and no bullshit face of Lilith).
@@ippollite Interesting experiences and insights! Lamashtu is pretty severe and I would say that Agrat Bat Mahlat is probably the closest to her level of severity. I personally don't believe Lamashtu and Lilith were the same entity, but that doesn't mean they're not connected... or haven't become entangled. Their myths are so intertwined now that they are connected. It is also very possible that in Mesopotamian lore that they were sisters. So, I'm not discounting your experience or saying you may not be right... My belief is that they are at least separate enough to be listed separately in the Sumerian-Assyrian God List, but.. that doesn't mean there isn't a connection. Lilith and Hekate work really well together. Hekate was probably originally Anatolian and Lilitu was Mesopotamian. Hekate''s energy to me feels like the deep ocean and Lilith's like the crashing waves.
Lamashtu is great and a wonder to work with. I enjoy her presence. She has not been difficult. I provide offerings a couple of times throughout the year. Lilith feels slightly different. I honestly can't tell if they are the same being.
@@markh.williamsauthor7286 All good, mate. Neither did I unti I googled the author. Interesting presentation on this spirit. She's been around for longer than most. Not to be trifled with, as you say. Have you seen J Sledge's ESOTERICA recent upload on Lilith? He also tickles the purported shared ancestry, yet seems a bit more convinced of it. I'm more on your side _ Lilith seems distinct to her regional context.
@@skinnyt1971 I have not seen ESOTERICA's recent Lilith upload, but I'll be looking for it later today. I love hearing other opinions and views and seeing what people are doing. Thank you for recommending!!!
Since discovering your channel a few days ago, ive LOVED the incredible focus on all the aspects. Im in this clip precisely because of the controversy over Lamashtu-Lilith. For me, i work directly with Lilith (sun, mon, wed, and friday), Beelzebub (thursday), and Qalilitu (Tuesday). On the new moon i work with Hekate (she told me straight off we weren't going to work together directly, but to kind of sort of 'keep one another in mind). Anyways, thats the preamble.
I loved listening because you're one of the few to bring up Qali. I dont directly work with Lamashtu. But im gonna give you four UPGs. Which are all nonsense of course. But its because you've made a case that now confuses me a teensy bit :) (obviously this is gonna be long and rambling - but hopefully fun - i'll break each encounter into a separate reply to make it less obnoxious). I just got to the part where you pointed out the overlap between Lamashtu and Agrat Bat Malat and was just kinda hoping youd square the circle for me. Aspects are like a game of telephone in my naive brain.
First meeting with Lamashtu. Arguably the first aspect Lilith introduced me to. It was about 2 months in. I was doing my usual bedtime meditation (using the enn to slip into dream land - as i do almost every night even now), and was told there'd be a visitor and prepare myself. I briefly introduced myself. Lilith asked me to show what i could do (it sounds dumb a year and a bit later), but i released energy from my heart chakra (im aphant, one of the few things i can "see" is energy release like a smoke pouring into my visual field from the point im working with - at that time, my heart chakra was particularly strong - im so sorry for all the pointless detail). Lamashtu never seemed convinced but i guess felt potential. So they chatted. I was directed to just keep doing what i was doing. I realised this was an observation more than an interview :P
I drifted in and out of consciousness, and eventually it was just me and her. She immediately told me Lilith wasnt there to protect me anymore. I made some solipsistic argument i forget about why this doesnt make sense (im sure i journaled it and can provide it if necessary), and she, i guess, realised i had a bit of fight in me or something and departed. I drifted off to sleep and awoke to three... nu mou (final fantasy) figures traipsing across a plain. I literally saw them (hypnopompia). I audibly screamed and they vanished (as if someone genuinely shut off the projector).
Prior to this moment i have never experienced hypnopompia (im assuming after the event, this is what it was). I dont think it was real. I think i was dreaming (i had sleep paralysis from the age of 13 to about 23 when it suddenly stopped - at this point im 47). But its curious this happened on that night... or not.... i mean, its the early experience of Lilith and things can get wild when your imagination hasnt yet met the pure mundanity of spiritual practice. Anyways, three wise nu mou with a donkey or a camel on the second one (who was also noticeably taller than the lead).
Oh, i forgot to mention. I wanted to know who this person was before naming her. I was never told. Instead, as seems to be the practice, i was encouraged to figure it out. I was given a clue though: A flash of a single 3 storey circular temple like structure in a desert. A temple no one could ever visit: Its Lamashtu!
So thats UPG 1.
Please forgive my shaggy dog story. :) What i learned: She is super authoritative. She has sway. She will 'play/toy' with you. She likes when you have a bit of feistiness about you. She is very tied to Lilith. Even if she is suspicious, she seems to follow Lilith's lead (the amount of times she has directly told me she couldn't care less about me, but 'so long as Lilith is happy...')
Anyway, part 2: Lady Damascu
For the first few months there was this path to Lilith's domain. i followed it often; usually hypnagogically (basically hungover). Id wake up around 5am, browse reddit a couple of hours, then meditate to try and 'play' with Lilith. Only now im suddenly not burdened by aphantasia. I could see shit. To be clear, this is months 1-3: After that, nada (i mostly drift into dreams). But one of those times Lilith was guiding me and took me to a door. She told me to be on my best behavior. This was clearly someone she had the UTMOST respect for. I met someone i could only describe as a grandma with a pointy witch hat. I gave you the nu mou reference before, i now give you the master matoya reference from ff14 (i know theres a lot of final fantasy here, but thats the brain for you - we reference and make sense of things through our established associations - so this is master matoya). I remember saying something very stupid right off the bat and her suddenly moving into my face with the sharpest razor teeth to scare me a bit... then telling me she just wanted to scare me a bit.
Im terrified and not putting another foot wrong. Okay, now we're about to get weird. So Im with Lilith, Qalilitu and this person i am very scared of. She introduces herself as Lady Damascu (thats what i heard and inspired the later search). She literally reads my mind, says im trying to say Lady Domitrescu (Resident Evil Village) and immediately im now seeing Domitrescu. God, should i be telling you this?
For some reason or other, im now an otter. Once again they are all talking about me and im not privy to the conversation. Im just running around (particularly Domitrescu) having a wild old time. Everything ends, im ported back, and awake (there was more - but it was established (after the event) bullshit.
For a couple of days im trying to work out who it is that Lilith has such reverence for. I type in damascu and get 'did you mean damascus?'. So now im looking at syrian deities. I eventually think "Did i just meet Ishtar?"
Less than a week later im in a meditation with Lilith and she puts the kybosh on the Ishtar/Innana connection. "You've already met her". Oh god, its Lamashtu, isnt it? I feel a nod of approval.
Lesson 3: I got it in my head that the path to Lilith is hypnagogic. And this usually involves a hangover. I had a week off during chuseok, so figured id take the opportunity and try to force the connection.
By day 4 i was an exhausted wreck. I remember doing my meditation and saying 'i dont know why im doing this, i just want it to stop, but i need to push!'
So i pushed. And on that morning i slipped into meditation and was met with Lamashtu instead of Lilith or Qalilitu.
She just wanted to play. She liked that i was obedient and compliant. She just wanted to drain me. Ive been drained before. It was fun if exhausting for a couple of days. I thought i was about to get the ride of my life. Instead i felt... it wasnt remotely sexual. I felt the strand pulling from me and for a fraction of a second it genuinely felt as if my heart stopped. Now obviously, mundane before magic.
I was terrified. Im literally dealing with Liber Lilith things here.
The punchline is Lilith warning me in the meditation later that evening about over exerting myself. Perhaps that wasnt her exact words, they're lost to memory. Her point though wasnt lost to memory: Take care of your health and your boundaries because you will get exactly what you desire should you request it.
Actually her point was this: there's only so many times you can do this before i have to accept it's what you truly want.
Lilith said this. Lamashtu in this specific case delivered the lesson.
Encounter 4: Okay, im a mess of a human being. I tried to reach Lilith through extra substances. I would drop, then meditate, then drop then meditate etc etc.
Around day 4, i was met with Lamashtu. And im obviously wrecked. Just like last time, she wasnt remotely on my radar (i work with Lilith, Qali and Beelzebub). She just appeared. And she was delighted to push me. And im not gonna lie, i was so happy she was there. I love every single time she shows up. Call it a death drive or destrudo or whatever. My feeling when she shows up is pure excitement.
I am diligently meditating between every drop. I am stoic as shit.
She isnt doing anything but watching and waiting. Eventually i push a little too far. And then it begins: Hypnosis. Its nothing you would ever (in this moment) refuse. Shes just asking you IF you want to go deeper.
And of course you do.
And i did.
And now im completely out of my depth.
For some reason or other, i suddenly in the midst of a dream (im fast asleep) see three snarling, rabid dogs, teeth bared, coming toward me to bite me and immediately ping awake.
Hekate.
So i work with Hekate, i work with Lilith. Neither seems to have a claim of authority on the other. Thats not the point, though i really wanted to mention it :P... the point is, this all could equally match agrat bat mahlat?
If it helps, I dont meet Lamashtu as part of a consistent practice. Aside the first two times (and the third, unexplained as yet time*), i usually meet her as an aspect of Lilith when im sliding off the path. She's often sent as a warning to reign in my impulses and indulgences.
*The third time she was a source of total wisdom and calmed my emotional reaction to see reason. I wish i could tell you this experience. Its so long, but also explains why i work with Lilith (and why i also treasure every single encounter with Lamashtu despite how negative it currently appears - i adore Lamashtu even though i dont work with her - but i also assume she is a face of Lilith - a very severe and no bullshit face of Lilith).
@@ippollite Interesting experiences and insights! Lamashtu is pretty severe and I would say that Agrat Bat Mahlat is probably the closest to her level of severity. I personally don't believe Lamashtu and Lilith were the same entity, but that doesn't mean they're not connected... or haven't become entangled. Their myths are so intertwined now that they are connected. It is also very possible that in Mesopotamian lore that they were sisters. So, I'm not discounting your experience or saying you may not be right... My belief is that they are at least separate enough to be listed separately in the Sumerian-Assyrian God List, but.. that doesn't mean there isn't a connection. Lilith and Hekate work really well together. Hekate was probably originally Anatolian and Lilitu was Mesopotamian. Hekate''s energy to me feels like the deep ocean and Lilith's like the crashing waves.
❤
Lamashtu is great and a wonder to work with. I enjoy her presence. She has not been difficult. I provide offerings a couple of times throughout the year. Lilith feels slightly different. I honestly can't tell if they are the same being.
Thanks for the warning. BTW, Jan Fries is a man.
Thank you! I obviously did not know that.
@@markh.williamsauthor7286 All good, mate. Neither did I unti I googled the author. Interesting presentation on this spirit. She's been around for longer than most. Not to be trifled with, as you say. Have you seen J Sledge's ESOTERICA recent upload on Lilith? He also tickles the purported shared ancestry, yet seems a bit more convinced of it. I'm more on your side _ Lilith seems distinct to her regional context.
@@skinnyt1971 I have not seen ESOTERICA's recent Lilith upload, but I'll be looking for it later today. I love hearing other opinions and views and seeing what people are doing. Thank you for recommending!!!