Weird Ways Korean Speakers Use English - 보그체
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- How do English words work in Korean? In this video I'm going to discuss 보그체 or "Vogue speech", how Koreans feel about it, how they use it, and talk about the psychology behind loanword usage in Korean.
I'm making this content so that Korean learners from all over the internet, members of communities like Refold, using services like Migaku, or studying with materials made by Talk To Me In Korean or Go! Billy Korean, can supplement their motivation and think more deeply about the work they're doing. Korean Patch is dedicated to helping people who are learning Korean become more authentic speakers of the language. We're glad you're here!
#learnkorean #languageacquisition #koreanpatch #koreanbooks #howtolearnkorean #comprehensibleinput #stephenkrashen #krashen #comprehensibleinputkorean #koreanlessons #koreanmotivation #studymotivation #보그체
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wow I knew 체 was related to 'writing style' (I think I started to notice it with 그림체 funny enough) but I had no idea it was the same 체 as body 🤯
sounds like we're getting hanja 2: electric boogaloo which is wild. I definitely agree it's about nuance. I've definitely also experienced the "concept at the end thing/separation" thing too and it makes so much sense now that you've explained it. Can't wait for more 'observational style' videos!!
As someone studying in Korea attending university(In linguistics), I took a 한문 class this semester and many times, the teacher expains the hanja inside a word and he often says the english counterpart for some obscure ones. At first, I thought it was because I was here so he wanted to make it easy for me but after asking some friends, they told me it was quite the norm. Even more in the linguistic field. We have words like 비음, 장음, 단음 or 음운변동 but teachers as well as students prefer to use nasal, long sound, short sound and sound change. It feels like the more precise the concept get, the more english appears (not to say I don't like it since my mother tongue is closer to english ahah)
한국은 근대화 과정에서 서양 개념어들을 많이 수용했어요. 20세기 초중반에는 일본이나 중국에서 (주로 일본에서) 서양 개념어를 한자로 번역한걸 수용했죠. 전통적으로 정리해놓은 한자음운 체계가 있어서 중국이나 일본이 번역해놓은걸 그냥 한국식 한자음으로 읽어버리면 쉽게 자기화할 수 있었으니까요. 그런데 아무래도 이런 번역어들로는 원어의 의미를 정확히 파악하기가 어렵죠. 특히 한자가 역사가 깊다보니 번역어에 활용된 한자가 그 자체로 갖는 독특한 함의들에 의해서 개념이 왜곡되게 됩니다.. 그래서 20세기 후반부터 최근까지는 영어 어휘를 한자어로 번역하기보다 그대로 읽어버리는 경향이 대두되었습니다. 서양 근대 개념어들에는 그리스어, 라틴어, 프랑스어, 독일어에 기원을 둔 개념어들도 있지만 그걸 하나하나 다 추적해서 확인해서 사용하기는 어렵죠. 그래서 그나마 대표성이 있고 영향력이 있는 영어 표현들에 의존하는 방향을 선택하게 된 것 같습니다. 꼭 유럽어가 아니라 타 지역 언어라도 영어를 경유하는게 학술적 접근을 할 때 매우 유용하기 때문에 전통적으로 한자어를 활용했던 방식으로 영어를 활용하는 측면이 발생하는 것 같습니다. 물론 한자어도 역사성이 있고 축약성이나 조어력에 강점이 있어서 영어로 완전 대체되거나 하지는 않겠지만요. 흥미로운 것은 한국의 오랜 전통 중에 하나인 불교에서도 비슷한 일이 다소 제한적으로나마 일어나고 있다는 겁니다. 인도불교 연구가 상당히 진행이 된 이휴에는 한국 불교 교육 과정에서 한자어는 보조적인 번역어(물론 그럼에도 여러모로 익숙하기 때문에 많이 사용되지만)로, 원어(산스크리트어 같은)를 개념의 원 의미를 담고 있는 언어로 제시되는 경우가 많습니다.
다만 위에서 설명한 현상은 주로 학술적이거나 실용적인 이유로 일어나는 것이고.. 보그체는 허세성이 있는 것 같기는 합니다. 패션분야의 미학적 감각적 어휘들이 번역하기 까다로울 수 있는 측면이 있기는 하겠지만.. 보그체는 그렇지 않은 어휘들까지도 영어로 치환해서 쓰기 때문에..
whoa, thanks for the stellar content, those were really interesting thoughts! had to google crudité haha
My impression is that most languages do that, the way you described the loan word integration. The English contrast examples you gave weren’t exactly loan words from a language that currently holds as much cultural power over English as English does over Korean. It’s probably interesting to look at words that loaned themselves to English when French was all the rage (probs around the Middle Ages). Most of them don’t even count as foreign words now, similarly to how sino-Korean and hanja aren’t foreign anymore, I suppose?
I’m getting of track, I don’t know enough about Korean to gauge (ha French) how much the hanja/single-word-concept habit (more French/latin) plays into this, as opposed to how loan words just generally function (just my experience from native German, the annoyance by the older generation over anglicisms in advertising, the adding native language inflections to fit the loan into a sentence, using loan words to describe globally agreed upon concepts that don’t exist in German or are just slightly different, accusation of flexing language ability etc…. all sounds the same). Since my understanding is that hanja are essentially just way way older loan words, it would make perfect sense that new loans get treated the same though.
Yeah, English is hard to compare to in this instance but I tried my best. Of course, food will always be a weird intersection of languages and the most chaotic place vocabulary-wise, but I just wanted to use a timely example of people not liking what they might feel as "unnecessary" haha
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. It's all kinda crazy, right?
Ohhhhh nice insights.
I didn’t feel like you were rambling btw, maybe as a beginner learner this isn’t as immediately recognisable but as a low-intermediate I totally immediately understood what you mean.
I’ve noticed this as well, tho I have never thought about it this deeply (and probably being unable to make the connections in the first place since I’m not fluent yet and haven’t had enough exposure to Koreans either) - it’s actually a big part of what attracts me about Korean (and Japanese for that matter, I feel like they have a similar thing going on)
There’s so many concise and precise words that express concepts which in English would take anything from a short sentence to a whole paragraph to properly convey, including the nuances and/or cultural coding. And I’m such a sucker for that stuff.
I think the most obvious place a beginner or maybe just casual watcher of Kdrama might notice this (without realising what they’re noticing 😂) is in subtitles.
This being able to convey things in very precise concepts makes the language incredibly efficient and so often you’ll come across something where the actor says like 3 words and the subtitle stretches over the entire screen 🤣
Of course a big part of this is also the fact that so much of the information in a Korean sentence is implied rather than stated once the topic of discussion has been established, whereas in English we’re constantly forced to repeat subject and object, pronouns etc for the sentence to make grammatical sense, whereas in Korean you can often just say a verb and it’s implied who does what to whom 🤣
But I digress, 😂 anyway, super interesting video, thanks for sharing your opinions and insights as always ❤
The interesting thing is that the general information rate is about the same across languages even with these kinds of features. Wild, right?
Frankly speaking, the admiration for individuals with lighter skin tones and the perception of superiority toward those who can speak the language of the country exerting the greatest influence on Korea at the time stem from our traditional cultural beliefs
Therefore, The reason is necessary is that in the case of Koreans,
those who only use Korean are often treated as belonging to a lower social class and are ignored.
The irony lies in the fact that having a good English pronunciation (as white americans) and using a lot of English words is often perceived as a measure of sophistication,
as it can lead to being treated as having a higher level of culture.
Paradoxically, Korean diaspora or foreigners from non-English-speaking countries or countries with majority non-white populations
(e.g., Central Asia, Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin America, etc.) are often pressured to only use Korean.
Although we have always been influenced by external forces, except for the upper class, we have had a history of limited direct exchange with foreign countries. As a result, our unique cultural phenomena, a mixture of racism, insecurity, and class-based feelings of superiority and inferiority, have emerged.
This is probably a concept similar to the korean word "Sadaejuui / willing to-serve-the-great-ism", so it's a phenomenon that can be explained in one writing in Korean lol
I hope you won't judge it too harshly.
Thanks to this, you can have some illogical benefits.....
OMG Perfect 🌹🌹🌏👍🏼🌜🇰🇷✌🏼🇺🇸🔥🙏🏼 I so Needed this Lesson! Ian you really break it down in a way I can understand because you speak English and Hangul So Well!! I so so so appreciate your Work!!!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼✊🏼✌🏼
Quite useful
11:56 yes, it drives me crazy when people do this haha. And the word/concept that they say in English is inevitably the one part of the sentence that I was actually able to understand...
Been there for sure...
This was very interestig, also in the way you layed everything out. Very informative!
In my motherlanguage, Dutch, English is usually being used as well but not so much in writing more so in speech where you can just put random english words, but more to sound cooler,. With the increased intake of American media sometimes you can't remember the word in your own language either. I think Korean, japanese and hindi are the only languages where the usage of english words are almost part of their own language? I might be wrong, but Ive noticed it more in those countries.
Well the interesting trend in Asia is that they create NEW words that sound like English, but have new meanings. Some have even circled back to become English (like salaryman). These words fit the actual meaning of Konglish. Might be some connection with the creation of those words and this thought process I've noticed!
Also, BTW, ENglishe' Isn't weirduh or foreign. Its Younguh" Thaz all.. Have patience, also with my Typing and commentsuh'!
I sometimes think that 콩글리쉬 and 보그체 are more difficult to learn than 한자. I often have an experience, like when in a cafe reading 얼그레이 on the menu, and think, "What is ol guh leh ee...?" and then feel stupid after looking it up lol. I'm also sometimes worried about misremembering and inventing my own Konglish word accidentally, as it might be perceived as mocking Korean.
They can be especially difficult if you're an English speaker, that's for sure. 콩글리쉬 specifically, since they often don't carry the same meaning as English.
damn interesting asf
One of the things that I struggle with the most is reading English that is written in Korean. It's so confusing ;-;
I love this video, the examples really helped me wrap my head around the concept.