API Hardware vs UAD Software Shootout Part 3
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Session Files:
drive.google.com/file/d/1Cd0s...
In the final segment of the video series, we'll do a mix of the song and compare the API The Box 2
Console to Universal Audios API Summing inside their Luna DAW. All the analog API hardware tracks will get mixed through the API Box Console, while all the UAD digital tracks will go through the API Summing inside of Luna.
There's a lot of possible configurations to explore, ranging from pushing the console as well as Luna in various ways. We'll also get some help from our friend Jason at Red Barn Studios and utilize the group summing channels on his larger API 1608 Console to get an accurate comparison to the Group Summing option inside of Luna.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:33 Song Montage
5:12 Summing Explanation
6:49 Summing Comparison
8:18 Compression Explanation
10:08 Summing and Compression Comparison
11:33 Pushed Console Explanation
13:23 Pushed Console Comparison
15:36 API Groups Explanation
17:43 Groups Comparison
18:50 1608 Explanation
20:20 1608 Comparison
21:23 Outro 
Видеоклипы
Great video, but the real winner is the amazing track and performance 🙌 Really appreciate all the effort you put into making the video and the extensive overview and breakdown of Luna and API consoles 🖤 Liked and subscribed!
Couldn't agree more. Great song.
I love your song! And I love that API sound.
The difference is that bold, obvious mid range with API. It really pulls you in.
Best description I can think of: hardware sounds like an already mixed and finalized song, unison sounds like a very well tracked song that needs a slight mix. Either way I can see achieving the same results a very definite possibility!
Excellent video series, what a pleasure to watch!! Thanks a lot!
Brilliantly executed man. really enjoyed the series :)
Really huge props I can hear and see the effort you put into this.
Extremely well done. Beautiful playing and music. Loved both mixes.
Thank you for sharing this and all the work you put into it. Very interesting Well done :)
I've come to the same conclusion here that I come to on every single hardware vs plugin comparison I've found. Here the hardware has better resolution and detail overall. Better clarity and more of a three dimensional sound, and it handles transients much better. The plugins sound more smeared and like there's a veil over the speakers. When it switches back to the hardware I can hear the veil being lifted and the clarity returning. This shouldn't come as much of a surprise as one is the real thing, and the other is an emulation. There's also a vast difference in the actual cost of these two setups. I think the plugins are good for what they are, but if you want the best sound and clarity (and can afford it) the hardware is where it's at.
Beautiful song. Love your voice! It all sounds good! Thanks 🙏
Great song and production, I'm subscribed. A lot of effort involved here and it is much appreciated. Well thought out and documented. As a Luna user and possibly a Box 2 dreamer, I'm super impressed with how close these are to each other. You have captured all the detail on your own, other hardware comparisons done by UA with J King and the Produce like a Pro. Doing this all on your own is quite impressive, they obviously have a lot more help behind the scenes in pulling this off. This video is as much a testament to your skills as it is to UAs console emulation.
Really loved your series! You did such an impressive job with every aspect. So cool to see your channel growing as well.
Thanks Kai!
Man, I have been watching your shoot out series, the past few days. The quality of the production, videography, editing, and comprehensive explanations are superb!!! Really appreciate all your effort.
Subscribed immediately after I watched part one. Liked all your videos as well of course!
This is a next level comparison.
amazing work! thank you so much for such videos, very well made, informative, fun and precise. API and UAD should reward you, I hope you have send them those videos ;=)
This series has been amazing to watch! Subscribed immediately during the first part. Thank you so much for all the effort you put into this. I learned a lot. Looking forward to your future videos. Keep up the great work!
Thanks!
Well done great mix , enjoyed the record as well enjoyable 😉.
Really nice work. Thanks for doing this. The first few videos the difference was subtle - you can really hear it on this one.
Ya, subtle things start to add up in the end! Universal Audio has still done a great job with Luna and the Summing, I think some of the "issues" I'm hearing on Luna could have been fixed with some mix tweaks. i was really impressed with the difference inside of Luna when adding the summing groups though, big difference in the low end!
Good videos man! Started using Uad Api vision and comp 2500 myself recently and I'm hooked. I like that you take your time in the video and show your moves on the eq and comp. Last but not least, I like the song you recorded very much. Nice!
Ofc i Subscribed!!!
Wow. Great shootout, great mix, and a really good song!
Nice work, man!
Really glad you took the time to be so scientific and as accurate as possible with all of this, especially the summing. Which, to my ears, sounds like where the end products (box vs. unison) come closer together.
You sir, have gained a sub 🤘
The Hardware sounds so beautiful ✨ Your Song is amazingly produced as well… 👍 Thank you for the Video
Again, thank you so much for your hard work. And UA. They did a really good job with these API Plugins in my opinion. Greetz. Carsten ✌🏻
Lovely, the hardware sounds great but the uad software it’s very close, o was surprised in a good way. Really nice video series. 👌
Thanks for all your hard work and time poured into this. Very sorry to hear you caught the big C along the way too. I always enjoy watching your videos and the natural vibe you bring. Feels like being right there in the trenches with you LoL
Funny enough, I had a totally different take away than I anticipated. I expected to hear extreme similarities or differences, but came away feeling it was subtle but totally noticeable. Probably should’ve known better, since I’ve had similar takeaways in my own experiences with UAD digital vs analog outboard tests before.
I have a hybrid approach too and have slowly migrated to more and more analog outboard versions of UAD plugins over time as my budget allows for it. My general experience is that the analog hardware almost always sounds subjectively “better” as the harmonic saturation magic of the transformers is noticeable, especially when you’re in the saddle working on a mix. When I step back and do A/B listening tests the difference is harder to pick up during quick switching of less than maybe 10-15 seconds, but still consistently noticeable if you listen to the two versions over a longer time, say multiple choruses or even the whole song.
The UAD emulations have definitely been the closest in capturing the tone of so many classics. Even huge studios can’t match the flexibility of the UAD plugins. Can’t imagine any studio spending the money and space to have say 60 Pultecs and 10 Fairchilds, Hahaha!
Back to the API test, I think UA absolutely got the general tone and compressor transfer curves right with their Luna system. So close that it’s impossible to recognize the differences on low cost speakers and short listens. The sound of the transformers is totally noticeable though and, as others have commented, brings a broadband magic with more overall energy, sparkling highs, rich mids, and thick lows that in the end (I believe) studio clients would recognize as a more expensive sound.
That’s my rambling take and thanks again for the hard work and for sharing!
Thanks very much for these videos! Great to hear the comparisons and your walk through. Excellent video production by the way! Also, thanks again for your help via IG when I was getting things setup on my Box. I'd be interested in seeing how you have everything setup (Box to patchbay). Keep up the great work!
Glad you’re getting up and rolling! I still have not grabbed a patch bay and honestly haven’t settled on how I’m going to set things up. I grabbed the console knowing it would be a good control center, I want to work with it a little more and settle on some workflow stuff before I start the headache of a patch bay.
That was a really great comparison and your personality and integrity comes over in leaps and bounds plus your accent is superb too, sat here in the uk. I’m sold on Luna but, have resisted the api in favour of SSL’s 360 software until today. Having the channel strips all there in a mix after jostling screens is something that along with the yearly sales and your video has swung me towards. Well paced song and yeah we all gotta slowly let go of chasing out there what’s essentially within. Loved your intro about today’s scene. Just as we get closer to great and really great mixes, the sales vanish in the old familiar ways. Always felt that coming but, it’s moving across the board as tech enables a new ❤
🔥🔥🔥 GREAT JOB SOUNDS EXCELLENT - IMPRESSED WITH LUNA BUT HARD TO ARGUE WITH THE BOX 🔥🔥🔥
Amazing performance great job. I think on the whole recording what I posted on the previous video is even more glaring. The hardware sounds much more defined (transients) and more open (nicer top end).
Thank you for your time!
Subscribed! Awesome job on the video and playing! For me the API stands out for drums. Being a drummer my ears go to that first. The UAD plugins are amazing but when the API kicks in the Kick and Snare become much more present, especially the snare. It has so much more clarity in the mix. Thanks again for the video
Thanks so much for making this!
Great video! you definitely inspire me to push my levels on the box louder lol.
Funny enough, me too! I don't ever push my console as hard as I did in this video, and it sounded pretty damn good!
Thank you for this video. Really learning a lot from watching it.
Nice one man you did very very well 🙌
I will have to try the groups on my api for a mix,thanks for the video,jz
Great video, awesome song.
Watched its all, downloaded the files, did my own AB'ing in my home studio, which has Adam A7x's.
I even watched the whole videos again in my living room, which has a surround sound Sony set up with a pretty good sub.
Considering the price different, convenience, closeness in sound. I'd say UAD won that test man.
It kind of weirds me out seeing at how close plugins are getting to the real thing.
Good luck and thanks for the efforts in making that video.
Thank you very much for the work done! This is the best video regarding the comparison of the Apollo with an analog outboard. I carefully listened to the comparison (I used my macbook pro speakers in living room and Dynaudio AIR20 + Sennheiser HD600 in my studio). I can confidently say that there is a difference. But, it will also be between different analog devices. This difference is not fundamental! It does not affect the quality of the production and is at the level of taste, not at the level of "professional" or "non-professional" approach to recording/arranging. Let's be honest - the lack of a hardware API will not affect the quality of production in anyway. Both mixes sound professional and great! Moreover, I will say that it seems to me that UAD is even more suitable for electronic styles of music. Thanks again for a great job!
Congratulations again for the meticulous work done, thank you! I am impressed by the quality of the UAD system, but as mentioned in the previous video, I feel more "alive" and in focus the tracks mixed with API. Beautiful videos!
They are both good takes. Great performance but i definitely can hear more details on the hardware vs Luna software. I’m also on barefoot monitors listening so i can definitely hear some differences. Great video once again.
Great video. Thank you!
Oh this video is going to cost me so much money. Custom Shop P-Bass you are ever getting further and further away. UAD is phenomenal. API hardware feels more in the room on the snare. I can't get a mixing console but my current setup is all 4 API Select rack units, 2500+, and 1176 and Distressors. Came here to find out if I can get away with UAD API console strip or do I need the rackmounts. Because priority #1 is a real LA-2A.
Excellent comparison! The hardware just has that little bit of extra openness overall. Feels more effortless and "like music". UAD is impressive and very similar, but just a bit more like it's struggling with the sounds. However, you could mix a great sounding song tracked like this either way. It just shines a light on why I have trouble mixing ITB, I think. I can EQ/compress and balance til I'm blue in the face and sometimes it's just "good enough". Hardware seems to be a bit easier to get things to go "ahh".
Big, big, big difference on the drum buss! The API console brings out the “thwack” in the snare and the kick sounds a bit more full and present. It’s like the Luna software tries to overcompensate by making it sound extra “gluey,” if that makes any sense, and the instruments (especially the drums) sound a bit more crowded.
Amazing video
Phenomenal Work.
Thanks for this. I'm a relatively new 'The Box 8' owner. I love it. The API vs plugins do sound different. But I do think it's a matter of taste. To me, the real hardware seems to add a bit of meat to it. But it's usually subtle. In all 3 videos, I think it's most noticeable on the first piano. The plugin added something that I just didn't like. Of course, if it wasn't A/B'd against real hardware, I'd just assume it was the mic or piano and eq it out and be none the wiser.
Also, thanks for the incredibly useful video! 😀😎
Mannnn.... Great job. Easy subscribe. I also felt the obvious low end and punch that the hardware gave us inthis video for sure. Still UAD was not far off man. Happy to know that since i only really own 1 preamp from API and the rest isall UAD
Use what you have, make great music! I'm still using the hardware and software side by side every day.
💯
Great video! i can tell you were recording your dialog through the console but I don"t see the mic. Do you set your mic above your head in the boom style when recording videos?
Please tell about the files
Digital Bounce(API)
Digital Bounce(Luna)
What are they?
Can I use Digital Bounce( Luna) and apply my choice of console emulations like Slate, Sonimus and hear the similarities/differences?
Also please provide clean group files, so that one can process via choice of plugins and hear things.
As Luna isn't available on Windows platform yet.
This will complete a little missing piece(from audience's perspective 😊).
This is one of the best videos on RUclips, with so much of scientific efforts given.
Thanks alot!!
Very nice vid! One question... would I get analog sound with a 500 rack with an Api pre, eq and comp?? Or the Box adds a critical mojo? Cheers!! Btw... the comparison sounds very similar to my ears. How do you hear it?
CAPI has a line-level unit that puts a signal through two sets of guts (2520, etc.)…a stereo pair of those may work wonders to get that API console sound. I’d be curious to hear a comparison between something mixed in The Box vs. something mixed “in the box” and ran through that stereo pair.
Hi Mill, :).
i really like the comparisons. i'm waiting for UA to release the new interface and probably the new interface is similar to the Avid Carbon. i think that the DSP era is over, finally. For what i can say, the software counterparts sounds almost identical/incredibily close... within a certain range.. the range that the Digital can handle .. but when you try to overdrive ... the software side is not able to handle it but the hardware.... sounds like no other.
said that :D
i really love the song... and in this days i'm in search for a voice and vibe like this :).
i'm not a famous producer of EDM but i like to compose music :).
if you want to share with me only the voice tracks I will enjoy to produce a remix :).
( i do not own and do no have any connections with publishing labels ). i'm not famous.
..... i pray every day to have an house out of the city
thank you.
This was fun and quite informative. The only thing missing is YOUR opinion! Does the UA stuff at least hold up, and if it does do you feel like your API console was an un needed expense?
I tried really hard not to inject opinions in the videos, I didn't want anyone getting the idea I was going into any of this with any sort of agenda. Check out the Gearspace and UAD Forums as I've started posts there and talk a little more about what I like and don't like about each. (gearspace.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1372889-my-api-hardware-vs-uad-software-video-series.html uadforum.com/general-discussion/56718-my-api-hardware-vs-uad-software-video-series.html)
@@MillSounds I saw your UAD post, Ill pose the question there.
More please.
I just spent 2 months giving you an hour and a half, haha. What else do you want from meeeeeeeee!
Hi Matt, Awesome Song and helpful video. What is the name of your song and where can it be downloaded? I've spent over an hour looking. It's not obvious, at least to me. I see comments like Great Song, etc, but there's no mention of it in this video unless I missed something.
Hey, I’ve never really released this. It was a last minute thing as the drums were recorded first for a completely different song, and we didn’t have a chance to do the rest with the artist because we all got COVID and had to cancel the sessions! I was stuck with drums for a song in 6/8 time, and didn’t want to redo all the drum segments I had already shot, so I adapted one of my songs to fit with the groove. This isn’t how I would “ideally” want to do this song, so maybe one day I’ll get around to recording it “right”, but it worked out well for the demo!
Does the 1608 have transformers on each channel or it works like the Box (only in the master section)?? Thank you!
All modern API console work the same way. When you go back into them to mix, the channels are clean (just like the box). That’s why I did a segment talking about the summing groups on consoles like the 1608, that’s the only way you’re going to get more color out of the consoles.
Like others said, the hardware wins with a more open top end and punch
One issue I run into with the BOX is I would love to drive the master channel harder, but I'm using the master insert and there's no level compensation, so I end up sending much too hot signal to my outboard gear on the insert, and that forces me to pull back the level from the channels and therefore the level hitting the 527s. I can crank up my insert gear and hit the output transformers on the board nice and hard from there but it's just a weird point of the summing. I wish the 527s had ouput pots (and their own transformers) just to be able to control how hot the insert send is.
I totally agree, I wish the 527's had outputs as well. I think it probably has to do with some technical issues of the compressors sharing some stuff with the master section?
@@MillSounds yeah i'm sure you're right. we should talk about this on the phone at some point. i'm still a little confused if the only transformers you're actually hitting are the master output transformers and they're after the program fader.... then in theory the sound wouldn't be any different when you drive the channels and pull the program fader down vs just pushing the program fader up.
we should talk it out and make a podcast episode out of it lol.
@@hopetownsound Ya, you're right there should not be a difference (and the master fader is after the transformers and opamps). The way I think about it: You run out of headroom on the DA side of things at some point. Because I used the 0 dB function in the summing section these days, I've had mixes where I wanted to push the console harder but something like the drum buss was about to clip the DA going out. That's why it's nice that this thing has faders and isn't just a rack mount summing mixer. I have mixes where I need to turn off the 0 dB. buttons and push all the faders a bit more to really hit the console. You wouldn't be able to push the console hard enough at times just coming out of your DA converters.
I'm a bit confused by this - You recorded everything with API and LUNA preamps - so you have 2 separate recordings right? So which recording is being summed in the comparisons? Or is it API recording + API summing vs Luna recording + Luna summing?
You’ve got it. API hardware preamps going into the API console, compared to the Apollo Unison Preamps with the API Unison plug-in mixed in Luna with the Luna API Summing.
Hey thanks for the reply @@MillSounds - thanks for doing this thorough scientific test and supplying the session too! Luna summing seems to add a bit of bottom end which I consider cheating :), otherwise it's a lot closer than you'd expect. I guess consoles are mainly about workflow improvements these days rather than an obvious sonic difference...
Where from u sir I really like ur studio it’s heaven m from India use uad too happy to see ur videos really want to see ur studio
I'm in Arkansas in the Ozark Mountains.
Hope visit soon if god wish that
i'm pretty sure The Box has transformers on every insert - even in the summing channels. im pretty sure anyway, but logically it has to (or they'd need to be electronically balanced). always look at the inputs and outputs. if you bypass the inserts... yes. also the faders have amps i think.
I checked with API about that before I did the video (I was unclear about that as well when the console first came out. There's a post somewhere on gearspace where API commented about it as well). The AUX and CUE sends have transformers on them though. If API would have put AUX returns on The Box, you could have pretty much used those as groups during mixing...
@@MillSounds lol! I used 3/4 for a drum group and brought it back on an insert return, but Im doing my drum group from auxes in the DAW now anyway so 🤷🏼♂️
@@MillSounds it's so funny I don't know where I got the ideas about where the transformers were? I just looked in the manual and it doesn't say anything in the entire manual about transformers except for one page where it talks about the preamps.
thanks for clearing that up!
@@hopetownsound Take a peak under the hood, all the transformers are grouped together and I "think" there's labels on all of them.
it has output transformers on every output (program/cue/auxes/send/insert!)but only has input transformers for the mic preamps.
the line level input goes into a 2510 if I am not mistaken
Beatification
I bet no one can tell the difference if they didn't look at the screen to see which is which.
Download the session files and do some A/B's yourself!
@@MillSounds I just did! You WILL hear a difference if you played them one after the other but if you turned away and started A/B-ing super quick and seamlessly without knowing which is which and especially if it's random you won't be able to tell the difference. Just like what you did on this video. I went to another tab and just listened to your audio and then tried to go back to see if I got it right. As per usual, statistics dictates that both those tests that I did could go either way. No one will get it 100% percent of the time.
@@blashuvec I don’t know, to me there was a very distinctive difference. Analog had a brightness, clarity, airiness to it.
@@BarryJohns oh hey Barry! big fan! anyway yes it does! I hear it super obvious when i'm locked in and watching the vid and i'm seeing the logos but when I tried to close my eyes or look away and then spend maybe 30 seconds just listening before trying to guess, my answers got pretty random whether I got it right or not. maybe it's just me...
I just did this. Yes… extremely difficult to hear when things switch,
Regarding the sound, its ok, both the API mix and the UAD. -No one gives a shit really about what you are using, its the end result that matter.
If you have a real API console, you care, but the listener dont care sitting at home. Ever. And who watches a video compairing UAD with API? Only nerds like me, haha. Thank you for the time putting in doing the video, sir.
So, lets sing this together one more time:
-No one gives a shit about what you are using, its the end result that matter
How would you go about applying summing to individual channels?That doesn't make sense. Summing is meant to combine signals. There is nothing to sum within individual channels. Therefore, it's not a UA's decision; it's simply a matter of common sense.
But thank you for the videos. They are great. You should have way more views and subscribers.
I guess it depends if you're talking about a summing mixer or a console. Most "summing mixers" that are rack units today take all the inputs and sum them down to a stereo signal, with the colorful part of the circuit only being in the stereo section. Not all consoles work like that, and there are some exceptions with summing mixers as well. For instance, the Chandler Mini Mixer has transformers on every single input channel, as well as the master section. Also, as pointed out in this Part 3 video, API consoles with buss'es can sound different than my API Box Console, as the API groups have transformers in them on the larger consoles like the 1608.
I guess my point in the video was that Universal Audio has designed their Luna Summing to operate just like the API Consoles in real life. You have the option of only having it on your master buss, or you can create the group structure and add a little more color. That's why digital is great, you have a lot of options and can choose to intentionally use it in ways you can't do in the real world with analog gear. Hope that makes sense, thanks for the kind words!
@@MillSounds 16:19 When you first set up a session when you have individual tracks you'll notice in LUNA that you can't put the luna summing on individual channels but you can apply luna summing to groups in the master bus.
👆This is the part of the video that confuses me. I'm still wondering how it's possible to put the LUNA summing on individual channels. There's nothing to sum on individual channels. Thanks for the reply, but it doesn't exactly answer my question.
@@user-gh9iw1of2y I have not used Luna enough to be an expert on it. As far as I know, Luna summing is copying how the color of an analog console works. I think you might be getting hung up too much on the word "summing". Luna summing, in it's most basic form, is passing the signal through a digital emulation of a recording console. Universal Audio does not allow you to apply the Luna Summing to individual channels, because that's not how those analog consoles work in real life. They are limiting you in order to force you to set up your signal chain like you would on a real console.
I still might not understand what your question or concern is, sorry if I'm not being helpful! Just because you are not technically "summing" channels together, doesn't mean you can't use the Luna Summing to get more color. Universal Audio constrains you a little in how the Luna Summing can be set up in the session, but ultimately you can use it however you want!
for someone that Never use hardware you cannot be silly enough to think some uad can out do the hardware......people get some hardware ..
Wow...UAD...rip off...sounds so Digital....Plugin Alliance Lindell 50 and DMG 25k.....in Studio One or Reasons...blows....UAD away...LOL
Man,, the biggest take away from all this is what an amazing artist and songwriter you are,, i could listen to this music all day,,, i hope you have a good label getting younon radio and streaming and putting you out on tour, you would go over great live. As for the console comparison,.. at times i thought I prefered the console,, the trail of the low end piano strings, bass guitar and bass drum is where i was imagining i heard a difference,, but then there were times Luna was doing the same thing,... im confused, but i will have a listen later on studio monitors and pro headphones as this test was on my Apple Ear Buds. Tracking sounds amazing to begin with, but you do have amazing mics too. Great job,, i want to tour with you, i hope you have a live act. Will follow up again in future.👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👍💯