How can we fully understand 'The observer is the observed'? | J. Krishnamurti
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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Saanen 1981 - Question #5 from Question & Answer Meeting #1
'Intellectually we understand that the observer is the observed, but what is necessary to perceive this so that it goes beyond the intellectual level?'
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I stay in one of the hostels in the University where I'm currently doing my PhD. I generally like to eat alone, by myself but I have a few friends who prefer to have their meals with others. I generally have trouble understanding this but I respect their need. In any case, recently, when I was having lunch in the mess, I was trying to understand why sometimes people feel lonely while eating by themselves. I realised that it is simply because one is looking at oneself as if from the outside. One looks oneself as if from another's eyes and judges oneself to be alone and therefore lonely. One is not lonely per say but becomes lonely by this judgement on oneself, by oneself, as if oneself was another. When I thought of that, when I gazed at myself as if someone else was gazing at me, I to felt lonely. The only way to not feel lonely was to simply be there and eat, without judging myself. It was a small moment but made me understand how the feeling of loneliness works. One splits from oneself and judges oneself as lonely. It is a sad feeling that comes from judging oneself as if another.
A hell of a realization brother. Keep going
Wow
"my" PhD 🙏
Exactly 💯💯
And that's what K's mean when he says that there should only be pure observation without the observer and observed.
Wonderful brother...
I owe my life to K, this is what freed me from so much conflict, pain struggle and misery, it was a great awakening for me, it all just fell away before my very eyes, and has never returned, this was many years ago, I've lived a life of freedom peace and contentment ever since, thank you Krishnajai, I owe you a debt of gratitude I could never repay ❤️
😌🙏❤️
You never felt lonelyness again?
Hi can u plz explain to me
@@keront8458 What you feel as 'self' is nothing but thoughts and memories (images). Lets take an example of seeing a tree. Now you see a tree and you got the image of a tree and at that moment you are nothing but a tree, provided that no other memories were playing and messing with that image of the tree. Thats what is mean by observer is the observed. You are nothing but a tree, at that moment. There is no thinker but a thought. What you feel as yourself is actually you are feeling a tree. Now we have images of all the whole world, therefore whenever we feel is a self, we are actually feeling the world. Krishnamurti says, "you are the world". We think, we are subject observing an object (outside world) but outside worlds is actually painting on the canvas of our brain.
@@SaeedKhan-bq6lx salam dost aziz ma ham besyaar mushkil daram ba fahamidan krishna murti. agar meshod ke mara ham komak konain, wa ba ham degar ba tamas shawaim. i would really appreciate ur help n will be waiting for response tnx
Amazing Wisdom!!!! When a different person is causing trouble physically or mentally to you, you run away from them, that is wiser thing to do. But when one's mind is causing problem, where can it run, from where to where, you are that problem. you can't run but just watch it. Then there is watching. The very watching is MAGICAL!!!! Thank you!!!!!
hi Madhan , can you explain more with an example ?
@@manikkhanna2259 we always tend to run away towards the opposites for example if we are being violent we try to become non violent angry we don't face anger we tend to think I must not be angry and So on.... Jk is saying that the observer is the observed that is what you call I and angry or I and alone are not two different things you are anger itself and nothing else... Observer is what it is observing and nothing else.... Means observer can't exist without observing and that which it is observing, it becomes ... So do not run away from what is to its other end it will only cause conflict and makes one blind towards the fact but just give your attention to the fact completely and attention is a flame which burns everything. The point is do not think that you exist without relating or observing and if you think that you are something without relating anything worldly I mean anything outside you it could be physical or not so then think twice it means that if I ask you who you are what your answer would be without any relation...... Example I am my name my degree my relations my achievement... Or qualities.... I hope its helpful....
@@thskendjeo134 thanks buddy
Yes...exactly ,as soon as" your" aware that your aware there instant peace it really is magical
@@thskendjeo134 Thanks buddy , i admit i didnt understand completely . So as JK says , with his example , "I am Lonely" , so according to him , when you see that "I" is a bunch of thoughts-name-images trying to get rid of Loneliness (which in turn is again thought-name-images) , then as soon as he realises , Loneliness goes away for ever , never to come back . Now i really want to understand how is this possible? What happens even after we realise the observer is the observed? Will i accept my loneliness now? Will the Loneliness no longer make me feel the necessity to go and socialize ? What exactly will happen? Much gratitude
Finally!! We're not the body and the labels we assign to ourselves and the society. We're a system in itself which is in continuous flux. It fragments itself and creates the ego, society and multiple labels out of itself and gets trapped in its self perpetuated illusion. It is the same system that becomes the observer and observes itself, thus creating conflict. There is only this one thing, not two. There is only the observation and not the observed. Once this fact is realised, the conflict ends.
I had boycotted every religious dogma, but as I came to see the truth of this fact after a long time, the meaning of Mandukya Upanishad hit me hard in the face. This is where Hinduism and Buddhism meet. This is what Advaita Vedanta says, Thou Art That (The observer is the observed).
I'm all the things of this world, it's happiness and sadness, pleasure and pain. The other people are not different from me.
The observer is the observed
The thinker is the thought
Attention is the flame🔥 which burns it all
This is what
You have been craving for...
Because it is so clear, it takes a long time to realize it.
If you immediately know the candle light is fire,
then the meal was cooked a long time ago.
yeah and time is null
Isn't attention the same as the observer ?
True 🌹
@@Honest_review85 I've been studying and researching this deeply. Consider we have four bodies, the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual bodies.
The mental body is the thinking mind, the imaginative space, and we all share this space. The first Hermetic principle states that all is mental, all is mind, everything you see, think, do, feel is occurring in the mental space of 'God', a creative force.
Yet this is not the observer. The observer has the ability to witness the mind thinking. The observer witnesses the physical body moving and engaging, the observer witnesses emotional reactions. None of this is happening TO the observer, but in front of the observer.
Attention is of the spiritual body, therefore I believe you're correct. When we are in a state of attention, 'paying' attention, we are rarely thinking or feeling or even moving. If we are it's instinctual, it isn't efforted. Because I don't see that the observer has much control over these other three bodies, yet I will give that some thought.
This means that we are the creators of our own personal life, what kind of history I am telling me, what kind of believe I had in my brain... we choose how we feel and what we think what kind of power we gave to every word we spoke... everything starts and ends inside us
no, here you are making a creator, a chooser, a teller, a feeler, an us, a separation
We don't necessarily choose how we feel. We can learn to manage it and understand its origin but we cannot always choose it. We do have to live with it though.
Krishnamurti was telling the pure truth. Exactly Word to word, nothing symbolic, have no doubts about it, he is trying to make it as simple as possible to understand. But the problem is, before you felt it you won’t understand it. It is as natural as anything else in the world, but more rare to experience. Total awareness dissolves all conflict there is inside of us, it dissolves absolutely everything of that nature. If you reach the state he is talking about when feeling lonely, i promise you, it simply just dissappears without any thought of it. It just goes away
@@favvisarfavvo1193 you are "that" lonely and in total awareness you can't see that which is that
I sufferered greatly over my moms passing, and i did feel lonely. When I seen that my body was suffering and watched it as I cried for the 100th time, it passed, i did not fight or supress... It was almost as if I had compassion for myself, nothing that no one else could give me... That was a month ago, and I had hadn't known this is what he was talking about till I in the past week started to do this with a lot of other feelings with my other losses and shame and guilt... Yesterday I felt i could use this with minute things like being annoyed, frustrated, or whatever feeling I felt in parts of my body, and quickly those go away too and my mind became more clear. I had the best day despite sleeping for 2 hours, I relied on myself to figure things out and the anxiety and complaints about being tired never happened.
Gud u healed .... Can u elaborate pls the process
@@Rahulkumar-dg5pu No process, just watch and feel whatever you are feeling, thinking without naming or judging. It's really simple.
India have given the real knowledge required for this world...the perfect knowledge and direction. My views on J.Krishnamuti has increased immensely after watching this video...He is a true gem.
What is India but a concept? YOU have given the real knowledge to yourself, not India, not nations not people but u to u.
Mr K, disowned all the illusions of nationality ...the only thing Indian about him was his passport. He denounced the identities and never associated with it or gained any privilege out of it
If India had done that, it wouldnt be such a mess
He raised in the West and most of his ideas are from the Western philosophy
Observer is the observed अगर हम दूसरों की अच्छाई अच्छाई या बुराई को देखकर प्रतिक्रिया देते है तो प्रतिक्रिया तो वह व्यक्ति नहीं होता बल्कि खुद होता है।
I think you are 100% to the point.
I have vague memories of being there as a 13 year old boy - the observer is the obseved stuck in my head as an incomprehensible challenge; and also the delicious jam donuts in Saanen village.
Do u understand it now or not
@@MukeshAmbani_Mumbai i dont understand how the observer in the observed
I don't understand clearly but I I want to understand.
@@farzanaahmed4870 watch Saanen sessions 1976 you will understand...
like has said the Budha even when you goes to sleep watch your self,watch without judgment just watch dont do anything!it will happen it will fire the light inside us.
Made this a reality today. Thank you.
Just one word for jk ,he gives me goosebump in the last of video.he is so deep in teaching ,I am relating my self with jk
I have kept my hands on fire many times just to experience things.
There were people who begged, hugged, and did all kinds of things to keep me away from fire. I never listened; most times I burnt myself, and a few times I burnt the ones holding me.
But the moment this journey started inward, trying to know Thyself, all those experiences that turned many into ashes went straight to the garbage.
Because the experiencer was never different from the experience; he was the experiment experimenting Himself ❤️.
You might be a witch
What I understood is whatever condition or situation which generates anxiety or distress among us, We should not try to separate ourselves or run away from that because that anxiety and distress are within us only rather we should fully immerse our selves into it paying full attention as a part of it and accepting it as a part of us. When that situation is Integrated with our self then it will not exist anymore.
The knowledge that the observer is the observer can be known only when is experienced, it cannot be known intellectually
The observer is the real me. Are other people observer or are they just humans? How do I know if a person is real?
@@JohnDoe-bt9qp The "me" doesn't even exist, you can experience this through meditation, try labeling what its the real you and you'll find nothing. For example when a thought rises up, did you produced the thought that has just been observed?. We have an illusion of control of what we think we are, we cannot control what our next thought will be as the same way you cannot tell your eyes to stop seeing or your ears to stop listening.
true
unbelievable wisdom... Like pain,, does it belong to us? Is it my pain? Does it belong to me? Do I exist or am I the result of thousands of years of slavery? If I'm not separate from the universe then the pain and loneliness belongs to the universe..
pagL
Davy spilani yes, one needs too feel the whole history of human kind; the compassionate understanding from one’s heart, the emanation of gratitude and humility that only empathetic awareness of the “other” can reveal and bring fundamental change to one’s sense of self and otherness: “To find oneself look to the other”; (original wisdom for this one’s insight)
Thanks to supporters of this channel to keep his work alive.
Master of intelligence jiddu
Simple and very true. An Insight into Loneliness was a good example. 🙏🙏🙏
How beautiful and profound this is! Can’t even be described. What he is pointing to is literally beyond my mind! Simply wonderful ❤❤❤ thank you 🙏
I can somehow relate this with a phenomenon that happens in my dreams occasionally. In the dream, I am caught in a quagmire of jungles or in some inexplicable haze of doors of large house etc.
1. When I try to make an effort to get out of the situation then it worsens.
2. But when I become quiet then the dream ends automatically.
Let us suppose, if I come out of the dream somehow from the effort as explained in the point (1) above, I will have a continued anxiety to avoid getting into the same dream. On the other hand, if I come out of the dream without any effort as explained in the point (2) above, then I will not the continued anxiety. It is as if it is OK - no fear..
The intense the observation, the intense is the experience of present moment
Very insightful sharing. K teaching is the only way to go beyond the loneliness issues
I was being selfish at times (with idea of, to do something i must have some selfishness), which was bringing some kind of lack in me, finally got the solution (better to say realised that i was wrong), thank you so much k and freinds.
We are always selfish there is no escaping that. My compasion is selfish. There is only selfish no compassion. Compassion is illusory reality, but its not facts.
True,same thing with fear .Full respect to J.Krishnamurti....Peace.
He was a real Gem 🙏🙏
He was a Buddha
As an observer you have to try and make an effort sometimes in order to think something..we are not just observers we can direct thoughts as well with volitional effort, for example if i as an observer perceive that i must think "love" 10 times inside my head, with my effort as an observer i direct the word "love" ten times..this is control of a thought by consciousness, nobody can deny that..but it doesnt mean that many thoughts aren't automatic and out of control..there is an autopilot but a conscious control as well (like moving your arms)..this is the complexity of the human mind and the human mind is who we are..
Giwrgos Androutsos Kapws etsi to ktlva kai gw...to autopilot mode einai h anagastikh aparxh ths proswpikothtas pou dhmiourgeitai apo tis antidraseis mas sta erethismata...epeita kapoioi kai ligo katalavainoun oti to mind ,pou einai byproduct tou consciousness kai tou egefalou , einai diaforetiko apo autes tis eglovismenes biased epiloges pou eixan dhmiourghthei (fovies, epiloges, blabla) otan anaptusame thn proswpikothta mas kai autes epikaleitai o egefalos kai tis provalei gt autes lamvane san basikh arxh tou...omws ola auta einai biased ola auta einai sketos egefalos kai h alhtheia einai pws molis to sunhdeitopoihseis den xreiazetai na antapokrinesai se autes tis skoteines skepseis pou sou provalei o egefalos kai... mporeis na tis parathreis san aples skepseis tou egefalou
@@neilshah5034 isnt that a quakmire to seperate mind and that itself causes conflict. If youre not the mind, like you are not the lonely you cant resolve it. If you are the mind and cant do anything about it the conflict Ends.
"The observer is the observed."👍
If one can do this, that's ultimate. But one needs courage and clear understanding.
Thank you krishnamurti ji 🙏🙏
Today i finnally understood what / who am i .
The self / i / ego is actually the bundle of thoughts and feeling,
And what we all do is that we say 'this thoughts, beliefs and feeling is me and all other thoughts are not me . They are different from me"
. But logically it's not right because the very self is itself a thought and feeling, why you are discriminating other thoughts and feelings
So u feel this like do u that u r thoughts
So when we put all he said together, we will may living like him out of fear and in same state of mind , but he is filing the gap in our time.i wish I could know him.
Excellent. Great video. Great insight! Thank you!
fabulous explanation. Real cool guy.
One question that helps me understand this concept further is: "If you are not Loneliness, if Loneliness is different from you, then point it out to me: where is it?"
And then, afterwards, ask: "And where is the I?"
I'm guessing you will be pointing to the same place.
What a great human being
I have never felt like this before when I do practically of observation without observer. Where there is no thought but you are aware. Your mind is still while doing observation without observe.
thank you so much
Emotions are important in order to internalize this truth, that is my experience.
this thought process is a masterpiece if u understand this u don need meditation u don need therapy u don even have stress...
the easiest explanation is this ACCEPT everything as it is....
in simple example
im afraid of public speech my heart beats faster my legs shakes instead of fighting over it jus accept the heart beat n shake legs n jus do it and then u worry again people will laugh at u that also jus accept it don force it to change its part of being as a human ...if ur have jumpscaare watching a horror movie just shout it its ok... if ur heart races when u see ur crush jus accept what the heart is doing don force it jus accept everything... u will see a awakening a peaceful process....
watch alan watts achieve the flow video its explains in simple examples about this ..
.we need some dr.brom to understand the language barrier of K 🤣..
but after u understand about this observer is the observed its so fun and ez to understand all the teachings of K 🙏
I don't think accepting goes deep enough - too mental.
We have to experience directly and fully.
Observe what you are. Then you can choose who you want to be. But don't forget, if it is not you, then you can't do anything about it because you cannot reach what is not you.
Hmm, I'm not sure if I fully understand or agree with this. For example, if I observe a thought in me, the thought is not me. It arises in my mind, lasts for a while, then disappears. If I was the thought, then I would disappear along with it. Therefore I, the observer, cannot be the observed (the thought).
The observer (me) observes thoughts, so the observer can never be observed. Otherwise you would need another observer to observe it. I can infer my own existence as an observer by thinking "The fact that I observe, means I'm the observer, and even this thought is being observed by me."
You could say they are inseparable, because thoughts cannot exist without a conscious observer, just like a thought cannot appear in the mind of a dead man. But the observer does not rely on thoughts. Yet thoughts do rely on the observer. Anything observed is just an appearance in the observer, but not the actual observer itself.
The "me" you're referring to is just an idea. This idea, starts as a thought, as long as you hold that idea of self it will develop into an identity, what the Hindus call "false ego." stripping those layers of ego reveal a oneness with the world around you and the mind becomes crystal clear, no thoughts at all, just observation. Every idea, stems from the first idea of "I am..." So you say I am this, and I am not this, developing duality and perceiving differences. I am lonely disappears, because "I" disappears.
@@ericpazzaglia6905 When I say "me" I am referring to pure consciousness. The Hindus have an example in the Upanishads of two birds sitting in a tree. One symbolizes the ego, and he chases madly after the fruits of the tree. While the second bird symbolizes Atman, pure consciousness. He is the observer that does not intervene, but simply watches. The silent witness.
So yes I agree with you that when we think of ourselves as an everyday human being, this ego identification is actually non different from the thoughts that appear. And in this case, Krishnamurti is correct in that the observer is the observed. But we are NOT the ego-thought. We are the silent witness, Atman. This observer is never the observed. Yes, ultimately all is one. But the "observed" in this case, thoughts, or ego, are like a non existing mirage. Unreal. While the witness alone is real. The real can never be or become the unreal.
Luis very interesting I would like to hear more from you sir
There is no “I”. The “Me” is an illusion projected by thought. Actually, there are only thoughts, fostered by the illusion of the thinker. Without a thinker, is there a thought at all? So, in the video example, when “the me” realizes it is the same as loneliness, so every move it makes, trying to change, suppress, escape, are still in the field of thought that will increase the loneliness thought constelation even more, adding more confusion. So the only thing that remains is to do nothing, to remain with that thing, and when you remain with it, the thought stops feeding its growth. Then it loses power, and disappear. You saying that you are “Atman” is just another idea, that even if it was true, the very saying of it turns it into a false statement. If you are pure consciousness, “you (the me)” is not even there to notice and remember. Cheers
@@silverblaize if you're referring to consciousness when you say "me" then I'm assuming you're enlightened? I believe JK is preaching to regular egos.
Now i want to hug him!
Imo, the observer and the observed is similar to the mind and the body. It is the emergence of bodily awareness. It's attuning to our soul. When we are present within ourself, there is no observer or observed...there is just being.
slangsd and then also no outer environment....
muito grato...
Everything is the source, the conduit and the flow, we are roughly on the opposite in we are receiving
JK has made too complicated his teaching, if he can only uses the word "Consciousness" as the observer, and the "Ego" is the Observed, things will become easy to understand to anyone. Only my observation...
JK is saying how to go beyond words and intellectual understanding but you are using the same words. Consciousness is not the observer but in consciousness, there is no division between the observer and the observed. In fact, there is no observer but there is only "what is" and no duality.
The true meaning is - Neither 'observer' nor the 'observed' is.
To understand observer is observed. It is very simple. You have to obsrve.
That's all. Game over. Do it. Without any choice.
For most people it comes back.
He is talking about reflexive sociology
WOW!!
So true.
K says “you have to look at it without the observer as a whole”. Who is the “ you” who is the who is looking at it ? Is it not another observer? That which is the observed cannot be the observer and that which is the observer can never be observed. You can never get behind the observer. The real observer is pure consciousness.
I thought so too!! And got confused...
So the real "I" is the conciousness? But if so isn't it create division between the conciousness an the observer, observed...?
I feel what K means is that till the acquired identity 'I' is seeing or observing, the conflict between the observer and the observed will be there. When the I becomes the whole, pure consciousness, the observer and the observed bothe will be gone.
@@arjanchatterjee6229 how can that be done kindly
Consciousness is content. This content is just an idea. The observer is what is observed when thinking interferes (when recording takes place), somewhat fragmented. The brain deals with this energy, but the brain does not know what it actually is, it is conditioned and moves between comfortable and uncomfortable. In reality we are empty, there is only the body and the awareness. So there is only seeing without an observer when you know the truth of it. I hope someone understands it. Just examine it yourself without describing it in words
How can we gain more knowledge and understanding of this concept ?
One has to learn undoing of the mind. This can be done only by being alone and understanding each and every swing of our mind. This understanding is not of time & space rather of non movement. Once you learn to be still the illusion has no power over you as you now have no center.
i love you Jiddu
Is it like, the consumer is the consumed.
Thank you!
Wonderful.
This literally forced my eyes shut and almost put me to sleep, no disrespect intended lol
LOL i slept for 2 hrs in the middle listening to this i felt happy atleast K could induce sleep.
Truth.
sounds like a non-dual kind of observation-seeing.
He is actually teaching advaita vedanta here.
yes advaita vedanta
Thank you
Observer is the conserved
Go through krishnamurty and dr bhom talks for clarity .
Do I accept it intellectually: that I am the observer?
Yes and no. I feel life has little to no meaning other than what we give it. But when I say 'we', it's vastly a redundant statement as my subjective existence is that we (I) exist in a fundamentally useless simulation of sorts. Even the very fact that I'm writing this and that 'someone' may respond, is for me a farce and perhaps a form of satire on behalf of the creator/creators of my apparent conscious existence.
This has been an ever growing thought I've had since I was a child. Perhaps reality is authentic and I'm neurologically damaged and/or just a biological byproduct of anxiety, depression combined with existential nihilism and even absurdity. Either way, it doesn't seemingly alter anything regardless of meditation, exercise healthy eating and looking at things objectively and indefatigably. The final outcome remains a paradoxically same difference regardless.
Isn’t all of what you just said only seemingly true in thought? All those speculations, whether something is wrong with you neurologically, whether life is a satirical simulation in the eyes of some creator.... all of these ideas are just inventions in thought. First thought creates the ideas and then worries about them / ponders about them as if they were not its own creations, as if they were true. Could it be that the futility you feel is actually just the futility of that kind of thinking? Thought creates ideas about the world and then tries to make sense of those ideas and it cannot be done- because they are just ideas, not truth. They are separated from the facts of life. Do you see that?
Please add Hindi subtitle please
Can someone please explain. I really struggle with Krishnamurti to understand anything he says in these videos.
I get the point that " i am lonely" can't be a real thing as you aren't loneliness as a being or something, but if you say you are lonely, you are simply saying 'i feel I have not enough interaction with others or things to focus my energy and effort on'... Thanks
i am struggling too :(
If the Observer is the observed then there is no longer an observer. So, if there is Love, there is just Love, if there is loneliness, there is just loneliness. They are being experienced as they are with out comparing it or trying to escape from it. When you have a separate observer, that separate observer compares these experiences with other ones. If it is loneliness, it wants to escape it for something else. But, if there is no observer and there is only the experience, then the experience can be free to rise and fall without judgement. He says that Loneliness disappears because if there is nothing to judge the experience, the experience becomes neutral and can be experienced fully as it is.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, true, both disappears; loneliness as well as the me!!
...But there is still an OBSERVER!
Somewhat statically put. The observing is the observing with flux. Static is false added impression,each new moment being fresh.
optizap flux is just a word...
---The whole psychological drama begins when one splits from oneself and judges oneself from the perspective of an outsider looking in. But the reality is that there is no outsider looking in. Attention or Awareness itself gives rise to thought; thought then creates division and gives rise to internal conflict and turmoil. One judges oneself from the perspective of an outsider looking in because of the self-image that one carries: how one should act, how one should think, how one should live, how one should carry oneself in society, so forth and so on. In other words, the whole charade is nothing more than psychological drama of the mind.
Whatever you coments/questions/argues etc.etc."I"will be always there.Therefor nothingness is the truth existence.
Even a perpetually lonely person does not feel lonely every single moment of the day, every day of the week, every week of the year ,or from his birth to his death...no loneliness must have come in at some point of his life and is not 24/7 Costant throughout his life...that will mean he is not actually that, because sometimes the feeling of loniless is there and sometimes it isn't ...so he observes it especially when it's there but forgets at some point but is not conscious of his forgetting that he is not lonely ...this goes to say that the observer can never be the observed , cos sometimes I'm lonely and some times I'm not ...then how can I be only loneliness which is the observed ,which is not always present , yet I'm always present ?
Consciousness brings thoughts to life?
이원화, 나를 바라보는 비아로 외로움,공포 사라짐.
I suffer from heart breaking lonliness. This is a beatutiful insight. Im bscially runnign from myself😅
From j it is a mixture medicine which is very very sour. However it is a sure cure medicine, as always the case and I am deeply obliged. Love
I was really stuck. I practice Vipassana and I feel clearly that I have entered the mode of mechanical repetition, is this meditation?I started practicing Vipassana to get out of mental dullness and now I am returning to the same place "mechanically scanning my body" I will be very grateful if someone shares KNOWLEDGE/VIDEOS/BOOKS or suggests WHAT IS OBSERVING AN OBSERVER WITHOUT AN OBSERVER, THEN WHO IS OBSERVING? IT'S ENERGY....? I watch and read Krishnamurti and feel this is good direction for me now but so difficult.
There is only observation of "what is" and in this observation, there is no past background means no observer.
I’m not sure what he means by looking at loneliness but not from outside. I have become identified more with the observer rather than the voice or narrator, but what does it mean to be the observer without being external, or detached, from something inside you.
To me, when the observer is not detached from the bodily worries, it becomes slave to them.
You make a good point but also read a comment above by
priyabrata Dash. I would also like to add that when you think you are a slave to the thoughts, there is still you, the slave and the emotion, so you are not completely out of the picture, the emotion has taken over and there was probably an interval where you actually decided it was the correct thing to do. Like when a person is out of control angry, or out of control fear, or whatever the emotion, probably before that extreme point they thought it was the correct course of action. It happens very quickly so we don't usually notice it. But there is still a separation between you and the emotion even in the worse out of control emotional state. When people regain their control they have simply created more distance more detachment from the emotion and so, feel more stable and in control. That is the usual pendulum swing for most people. Out of control and back to being in control. The question is, is that separation real? Are there really two things? Is there you and the emotion? I am not sure. We have to look closely at this, when all of this is going on.
Can someone explain what he said. I hv great respect for him but many times i can't understand his saying.
"I am that loneliness" means that loneliness is part of me. Accept it. Loneliness is only an example.
Who realizes the fact that observer is the observed?
Me
I can not use I realized because if i used I then that I is observer.That is truth and realized totally here.Example Im writing and seeing then writting is there but not me .Only one thing is there if writing or seeing but two can not go together.viewer is viewed.
@@darshitparikh7873 what is means the observer is the observed?
40 years
How can you understood what light is and how it the ultimate source of energy? Any idea?
Buddha
Super
Realizing alot of these gurus use body posture and pauses to make it sound deeper than what it is...every day some random old Asian pops up in my feed trying to tell me bout life....
PLEASE READ ME IF PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS TOPIC, I'm up for debate obviously as a true lover of Krishna. But I think he's wrong. After long long long consideration and studying of this idea "the observer is the observed". I've reached a conclusion that objects to it. So either there's been a miscommunication through words, I'm trying to communicate the truth or I've miss observed and am communicating a non truth, those are the three options, i think. I say that the observer is not the observed, because it is impossible to observe the observer (maybe Krishna was just trying to provoke us to figure it out for ourselves). Okay let me state my conclusion before explaining, you'll see why. I believe that the truths about my identity can contradict but both be logical and therefore be felt and perceived as the truth. Truth 1 I notice I am an observer, But i cannot find the observer (where these thoughts, ideas and feelings are all happening in the experience which i may percieve or not percieve as me), therefore I shall identify with everything the observer observes (which only exists in the present, even ideas of past and future) because that is the only thing that even is in my experience and therefore can be seen as me. Truth 2 I cannot find the observer and I can also see that everything I observe, i must be separate from in order to observe it and so it is not me. So I truly believe both to be true, just depends on which you choose, which is freedom and can probably both be used practically in different scenarios. however I've just had the thought that i am neither the observer or the observed, but instead, the act of observation itself, which includes that of which i observe. makes even more sense but i'm sure this is just another perception that can be perceived as the truth. I will say that it feels the most truthful though. And i also think that anything we observe as observation causes it to become more separate from us , the more information is picked up from a particular part of what we can observe, the more we become separate to it, which also makes complete sense i think. bit crazier now to but i believe that as the universe, we've caused this so we can to an extent exist, because without an observer, there would be no observed and therefore we would just be the universe without even knowing it or experiencing our self. Which crazily points to the idea why you can't observe the rest of the universe. it's because the observer that you can't find is the rest of the universe and you can't observe it through any means because it is you, In the pure sense that has non of the contradiction required for observation. :o, realising this even if it's not true has made me happy, hope it can do the same for someone else and provoke more realisations and opinions for the better.
The intellectual question is who is observing who. Where intellect ( dict) is the faculty of reasoning, understanding objectively, especially with abstract matters and abstract exists in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence. So to perceive that the observer is the observed would mean that if the observer which is the person, has observed something within the person, that would mean the person has become suddenly aware of something within but not aware of whats being observed of having a physical concrete existence and only having an abstract existence in thought.
Where as enlightenment is the state of attaining insight of something in which the person has observed that that what is attained from within is not an abstract of thought but an actuall physical form that is observing from within to evolve the very body and brain that the physical source formed initially.
Krishnamurti had never came to the realisation that what he was observing within, was a physical source that formed the intelligent species and the imprinted knowledge within that physical source was relaying its knowledge to the physical brain.
That's quite the contrary to what the East says, isn't? They want to name the things that I am not, to observe it. But here he says you shall say it is you. Is this some sort of deep acceptance and therefore you come to truth with reality?
Loneliness self-liberates.
This is the conversation that god had with itself before it divided itself countlessly and forgot what it was😜
Sorry, but I think he has got a logical inconsistency there. He suggests to „look at it“ (the loneliness or fear) and at the same time to not be an observer, as then the conflict is there again. If I can look at something, I am the observer of it. Eckhart Tolle sees it differently and clearly says: You are not the emotion, you are the awareness that perceives it - without judging of course. I suspect Krishnamurti always mixes up thought that judges and thereby creates a conflict with the neutral observer or awareness that watches without judging. But to say „look at it“ and „there is no observer“ just makes no sense to me. „Look AT it“ - the preposition „at“ already indicates that the eyes are at a different position than what is observed, „at it“ means you look into a certain direction. That wouldn‘t be the case if you were „in it“ or simply „it“. The emotion cannot look at itself.
It’s just a language limitation. I also have a problem with the word “look”, but it means actually to “remain with what is”, “feel what is” with your whole being.
This requires you to understand that “you” are synonimous to the loneliness, and so, there is nothing to do, act, or change. Non action, to remain, accept is all you got. This is what means “look”
🙏
The observer is conscious while the observed is unconscious. How could something conscious is something unconscious?
💐🙏
The observer is the observed.
In fairytales, when the frog is kissed it turns into a prince, when beauty loves the beast it turns into a prince. Lovingly accept and embrace the negative emotion and it transmutes.
Jews being loved by society but still haven't changed
Please someone explain this
The separation is caused by word. When you name your feeling and thoughts. Just watch them as they come without naming them
You are all your feelings and thoughts. You are that.
❣️