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Racial Wealth Gap I Bret Weinstein [Mini Clip]
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2020
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Get Thomas Sowell on before it is too late.
What are they just going to agree with one another for an hour?
@@Theyungcity23 yeah?
I’m welling to bet that he’s been trying!
@@Theyungcity23 Basically a softball session like he gets everywhere else....
I love Sowell but I'd like to see an interview where he gets challenged.... somewhat like Firing Line with Buckley
Nothing should ever be reduced to ONE thing, being this culture, race, gender and etc etc!! It’s an interaction amongst different variables!
Except ALS disease, and a whole butnch of other things I dont know about.
Thank you. its sad how simple and true your statement is- in the sense that all we get is the opposite of this: reductive thinking on ALL sides.
Colemam, you’re such a genius. You’ve changed my way of thinking on politics.
It sounds a bit like a well known phenomenon in Ireland: those with the least wealth tend to spend the most on events (kids birthdays, communions, weddings, etc...). The general assumption tends to be that they do this as a way of trying to convince people (probably mostly themselves) they are just as wealthy as everyone else.
Sadly, this essentially means that those that can least afford it squander their money on partying, which then of course both leaves them with less wealth to give to, or invest in the education of, their kids and teaches this behaviour to those kids so the problem continues through the generations.
@rxp56 apologies, I never meant to imply I thought it to be in any way exclusive to those two demographics, just that it was not exclusive to the US black community.
Thanks for confirming our folly (well this one anyway😅) is not uniquely Irish though.
@@daivahataka no need to apologize. Your point was clear enough to anyone not looking to be offended.
Exact same thing with Mexican quinceniera (15 year old girls coming out party)-extravagant expensive party saved for over years by parents and spent one day even by poor working people.
@@roundedges2 true, I'd completely forgotten about that one and my understanding is they have the same in the Brazilian favelas. I remember a documentary about a charity trying to step in and provide dresses for the most destitute so they can still have that event.
Is it financially unwise to do this though? It is a bit like the "if you have no money, how can you afford a smart phone" argument. Yes, I have students who have much better and newer phones than I do (in fact, they pretty much all do). However, the money for them is not the difference between comfort and poverty. If you don't have any money spending $500-1,000 on a phone may seem (or even be) extravagent.....but at the end of the day having that extra money will not, and cannot, provide any long-term strategic value.
If you have no money saved for retirement, versus having, say, $10,000 from having really scrimped and saved....is there really much difference there? I'm not sure there is.
If you want people to save and not splurge they need to have a path to creating enough wealth for it to be meaningful. Otherwise, what's the point?
An Ex of mine is first generation Chinese American. She went to Harvard and her 3 siblings are doctors. Her mother doesn't speak English but her father does a little and worked for the Post Office.
She went to Harvard and her siblings are doctors isn't relevant, as she's from an Asian immigrant class, and never experienced 400 years of "wilding" by comparison to her American Descendants of Slaves (ADOS) counterparts.
@@kevinboone2178 and what difference would that make to the opportunities in present day US?
Kevin Boone how does this affect anything?? the only thing it may affect is socioeconomic status, and he’s established that she grew up poor as well.
I love Brett, but a lot of his arguments in this conversation are very subjective - the story about his black friends pristine houses, this is entirely subjective, my black friends houses weren't pristine. The story about his black friends dressing up for airport travelling, again, subjective and you will find this is also a bit of a class issue, my parents and my family dressed up, we weren't black but it was seen as something we should dress up for, it was something a little special.
His comparison of when people spend a hundred dollars on a wine bottle is also weak - Coleman was pointing out that the the lowest earners in american society are buying expensive jewellery, Bret then draws the comparison of white people buying expensive wine, but white people are not the lowest earners. Wish Coleman would have called him out on these subjective viewpoints.
"I want to go deeper..." Uh, OK, dude.
...and poor whites are not buying 100 dollar bottles of wine. They are buying a bottle of Early Times and a 12 pack of natty ice.
It's not really subjective but anecdotal. Which still means that it is not that good of an argument.
@@JMENE409 yes sorry, you are correct, I was fuming a bit when I started writing that.
Weinstein is an empty suit. He refuses to acknowledge certain inconvenient truths. Why has he neglected to factor in the racial IQ gap? It seems like a pretty large omission from his analysis. When you control for race, studies show income is directly correlated to intelligence.
Absolutely amazing. If only we could have this level of analysis in conversations across the political spectrum.
We did but RUclips has removed much of it. Bitchute and Parler are slowly filling this void.
2:37 - The reason why we find things like this funny or anything funny is because the truth is right there in it.
I will try to put it as simple as possible.
As Black man from Mozambique, Africa, when I go to a bank or to a mall I purposefully dress my best clothes and hold my car keys on my hand. That way I send a msg to the teller at a bank or to an employee at a shop that I am not just a broke black man that have no money to buy anything at a particular shop.
Because a white man can just walk barefoot, wearing shorts, and a white t-shirt and have a better treatment than me, just because.....
Maybe Black Americans are sending some type of a msg through buying jewelry. That might be to show some type of achievement. IDK
Of course for me buying jewelry, rims etc., does not make sense, but I am an educated black man, I am an accountant, I am financially literate, but how many black people, specially in black communities in USA are financially literate??!???
These kind of issues are deeper than we think. And there may be a lot of factors playing role a in that behavior.
Obrigado Augusto! Weinstein and Coleman's discussion is to peripheral. Read me my explanation above. These are the major issues. Take Care
You're absolutely right. Recent black immigrants like yourself have blown apart theories on black inferiority from white supremacists, as well as reliance on systemic issues from white liberals.
My dad grew up in the poor black neighborhoods of the Bronx in New York, and he didn't buy into the ghetto fabulous lifestyle. I started to, after he died, but the Bible set me straight.
All of these things are cultural, not systemic or genetic. Thanks for your comment and best wishes.
@@mdarrenu Your explanation is absurd.
Cool story. Nice the way you assume you know how a white guy is gonna be treated.
Curious though, why do you care if the bank teller or shop keeper thinks you are broke or not? Is he gonna question the validity of your plastic? Are you trying to write a check?
Kind of a side note, but if someone walks into a bank wearing like 5 gold chains I doubt they'd be taken seriously.
Great job, Coleman! I look forward to hearing more of you.
Weinstein relativises only through being from a middle class background. One, his black friends at school (the one or two he mentions here) most probably came from families where reaching the middle class and being a small visible minority, was a significant achievement, that´s why their houses were spotless..a reflection of their pride. Two..comparing buying bling to investing in gold is just nonsense. People don´t buy bling as an investment, its pure show, no more no less. They don´t usually know anything other than what they paid for it. Nor do they care. Coleman should have pressured him more here, he says he was going deeper, but i just heard a lot of diversion and poor relativisation.
You're absolutely right. I forgot that he said he was "going deeper." He did the exact opposite. Haha
Don't forget to provide a link to the full vid in the descriptions for these clips, bro.
I earn £120k, wear a Seiko, and drive a ford. My mate earns £30k, wears a Rolex and drives a Benz.
@RaoulDuke6666 lol
Just the very best of points made to bring actual human cohesion. Thx Coleman and Bret for explaining we are all expressions of humanity.
In the future can you provide links to your research? Would be helpfull
I don't think Dave Chappelle gets away with it due to saying these things due to being in comedy so much as due to having a different audience.
Comedy appeals across the spectrum of society even if the nature of what they find funny may differ, whereas academic papers are only really of interest to university students and graduates, i.e. those most likely to be "woke" and obsessed with calling things "racist". Dave Chappelle got serious backlash from those same types in recent times but because they were not the majority of his audience it limited their ability to do anything to him, however in academia those people have a lot of the power and can very much end your career.
If Chappelle was limited to performing his comedy for college students and graduates I suspect he would encounter the same problem you describe.
No such thing as a wealth gap. Wealth is largely determined by IQ
Amazing video!!!!
Yes! You are very correct! Thank you!
In every culture wealthy people have ways in which they distinguish their success. If you live in an urban setting you can't get a Ford 150 superduty (no parking), you can't park a camper in your front yard, unless you own the home you can't remodeling your kitchen, you can't get a jet ski, or a boat or dirt bikes because you don't have access to lakes or country roads and where would you store them? Conspicous consumption in the urban black community takes the form of gold chains and gold teeth and rims because it works effeciently to signal success in an urban setting where your real estate and the things you can borrow against are both very limited. At the end of the day, its no more silly then your white neighbor buying a boat. A boat is esentially a terrible investment with limited use but signals a high amount of disposable income.
Chika Onyeani in this book (I wont mention the name, but now banned from Amazon "for some reason") points out the consumer good spending practise.
"First of all right on, but I want to go a little bit deeper on a couple things". I feel like Bret always manages to throw in a 'I know more' into his statements. He could have said, things like "further explore", "talk further on". I know it's a little reach as a stand-a-lone comment. But I've felt a trend in his discourse that is frustrating from a respective and equal dialogue goal.
Agreed. He is quickly showing his colors as a bit of an intellectual snob. We get it man, you're intelligent, now stop being THE guy who has all of the answers and the high ground. My goodness. Coleman's style on the other hand, is really enjoyable. He's likely 15+ years younger than I and lightyears more mature and intelligent.
He meant, I'm still talking about the last topic and i want to go back to it in more depth, coleman had just jumped topics
He did in fact make a brilliant point!
@@MrAhoelzel Agreed
He's insufferable. He absolutely has this know it all attitude and it's part of why the evergreen students targeted so hard. Now don't get me wrong those kids are literally insane and psychotic. But Bret was happy to foster and enable that environment until it came back to bite him. Now I fail to see how he has remained relevant and so propped up.
When he did that podcast with all those black intellectuals and 3 of them were trying to tell him that some of these tthings are uniquely black and he wanted to push back on them about that. It was so cringe.
We do a comparison to drive wedges between people as a political tool. When you compare whites and blacks of the same economic groups you see that the education, work, and spending habits are very similar. When you compare all whites and all blacks you see a big disparity. If you go back to 1960 and look at where blacks were in a family and socio-economic sense you see that they were doing, as a whole, far better than today.
Here's a short story: when the first set of stimulus checks came out I was at the store getting my son some socks. Behind us was a family I knew from work' a mom and three kids. In her buggy, she has a game station, several games, two big-screen TVs, and a few Chromebooks. We spoke and she said their stimulus checks were like another Christmas. So, the benefit of the doubt says the Chromebooks were for school, but two 42" TVs and a game station are not. My stimulus check - right into a mutual fund. And to be fair we have a big-screen TV, but only on in the house and a game station my son got three years earlier for Christmas. So, two thoughts - The luxury items they bought with the stim check are items I bought as normal purchases. I have the income that allows me to invest the stim check. My point is it's easy for people who don't have disposable income to spend frivolously extra funds, where it's easy for someone with more disposable income to be more constructive with it. At the same time if you go to the central office and look in the parking lot you will see the majority of the black administrators drive BMWs and Mercedes, and the white administrators drive domestic older cars.
It's my observation that my blacks counterparts are far more likely to spend money on appearances than my white counterparts. My observation is that there's a need to appear successful at the expense of saving and investing. I also find that many of them will enroll in doctoral programs online that run near 100K just to be called doctors, where much few whites enroll because of the cost in time and money.
How do you make a tissue dance? Put a little boogie in it.
Amazing that these cultural features are world wide and not just in the USA. Presumeably, different nations have had different histories. Black people also watch more tv and buu mold thab others in the UK, The Netherlands, France, Sweden, you name it.
Chinese people often have 24K gold jewelry, like a bracelet or necklace. It seems to be more working class people than rich people, making me think it's both a store of wealth and a working class social signal.
Mr. Hughs, it’s not just what (the people who are being left behind) BUY; it’s what they don’t buy. Poor people, of all colors, rarely buy ASSETS. Poor people buy STUFF, rich people buy ASSETS. Financial literacy is extremely low for Americans across the board but particularly low in minority communities
and the funny thing about getting expensive jewelry, that's not even a West African thing. Other cultures yes, Aztecs, Egyptians, Greeks, all cultures that had a market for pricey jewelry, W. African kingdoms, nope. They spent their money on clothes, which is funny cause I see all manner of black folk shopping at Ross....thats a damn shame, they should be at Macy's!
Bret needs to change his habit of saying, “I want to go deeper” because it sounds dismissive or condescending and because what Bret adds isn’t really “deeper”, but just “other”. I’d suggest saying, “That was great. Let me see what I can add to the conversation now...”
I’ve seen this a few times and that statement comes off, to me, in an elitist manner that I don’t think Bret intends.
He just added stereotypes he has about black people.
Amygdala development and/or innate capacity. Decision making focused on the immediate vs. the future. I suspect would be race neutral in terms of relationship b/w amygdala functionality and economic and educational status. I also suspect amygdala functionality results from first genetics, second environment and third culture.
I think there is some work on inequality above a certain point being associated with democratic dysfunction. Money buying the process, etc.
I wonder how much this is due to race and how much is due to poverty. One of the failings of our schools is teaching kids the value of money. Spending money wisely can enable most people to get out of poverty. It is also why the poor may not be able to comprehend how someone else does so well and seems to earn more money, when it actually comes down to investing, rather than spending.
Ever wonder if wealth and income is under reported by those making money “unconventional” ways? Wonder if that skews the numbers.
The irs would like to know your location.
Well, that is a good thought. It is likely the same though for blacks and whites - that said - if both say were underreporting by $5,000 then the ratio of (17 to 1) would decrease to 13 to 1 or so. More to the point is if blacks incorrectly total their net worth and whites do or overestimate. All that said is - sure there is a big difference - that is not really news. thanks.
3:00 there is truth in every joke
No sure what point Brett is making. He seems to be attempting to counter Coleman’s investigation of the racial wealth gap, (which he backs up with actual systematic data) with anecdote. Brett is coming across as making apologies for behaviour, which if addressed, might actually make real impact on the wealth gap.
I think many people dress well on planes because they were told by their elders they would be treated better.
Time preference?
You need some spice. Get that energy up and avoid being monotone.
Unrelated: Do you still have chops?
I just think this dialog was pointless. Black people buy more luxury items then whites... okay? There is no way to draw much more than spurious correlations with this observation. Coleman has a way of saying perfectly reasonable and factual things and then making a slippery slope argument that is tenuous at best.
Hughes does a quite poor set up with the fact he looked up, he seemed at least in this clip to be totally disconnected from the reasons behind the behavior as if he was saying behavior was self explanatory, and entirely cultural. weinstein goes immediately in the right direction, but we should also explore other factors in general which can influence such behavoir such as education, community violence ect. By not exploring these factors Hugh's seems to be using the out of context fact to justify the wealth gap.
So tired of these dumb comments complaining about Hughes not "talking about the cause" of behaviors. The causes are utterly relevant. What is the point in speculating about a "cause". When someone is an adult and making bad decisions like spending money on cigarettes and lottery do you think someone should set up a blue ribbon committee to search for the causes before they tell that person they should stop doing that if they want to save money? Stop trying to take agency away from people and let them be called out for their behavior. Literally Hughes first words here were that this is something that doesn't get talked about enough in the context of the racial wealth gap and that it's simply food for thought. Furthermore, he's referencing an article he wrote years ago that goes into more detail which you can go read if you want more detail. But it's embarrassing to watch people try to criticize an edited clip that's meant to be short and say it needs more context. You're not fit for this level of discussion dude. Sit down and listen and you might learn something
Coleman, you talk way too slow dude.
How anyone listen to a man video-taped dancing in a train in his underwear?
It's very sort of English to think it's quite crass to display wealth i think. Some Australians often dress up for just lunch or the movies or whatever.
Dressing nicely is in no way associated with showing wealth. Most wealthy people dress rather modestly. It's often poor people who wear the most expensive clothes.
I suppose the ability to spend ridiculous amounts of money on status symbols is a type of wealth. It's a matter of priorities. Unless it's stolen goods, they had enough money after food and rent and bills to buy it. Obviously it could have been better spent elsewhere. Or saved. But it's their choice.
@@variablevariant A very large amount of people on public welfare and food assistance have these luxury items disproportionately. In a way it is stealing to spend money frivolously while taking taxpayer money to support that lifestyle. But I can tell you're the kind of person who will do whatever they can to deflect blame and agency away from people and make excuses for their shitty lifestyle.
@@synthesizerneil it's not necessarily frivolous. As they discussed, it's a very human need to show your status. Purchasing goods contributes to the economy. Everyone has different ideas about getting ahead in life. You can't control everyone. It's not your tax money and it's not throwing it in your face. It's some expense you don't value. They don't need to have your exact values to deserve a basic income. I don't know how your welfare system works but I find it consistently bizarre every time an American, and it is only Americans who say it, says this person spent my money. You pay into a pool that elected representatives decide how to spend. The individual is not beholden to your values about how to spend their money.
@@variablevariant I really really hope that you're not in any position to give someone life or financial advice. Actually I hope you're not a parent either. I'm sure you're not though as you sound very young. Everything you just said is just excusing and romanticizing bad decision making. You sound like your average emotional leftist woman - completely missing the point and saying some dumb self righteous crap about how it's not my right to judge someone. Pathetic.
Ofcourse poverty among black communities was caused by racist policies of the past. But these days it realy seems like people want to break down every socio economic inequality to racism, which is just not the case. There are so much more factors.
I can see Brett doing some name dropping - Mr. Black Panther that he knew personally who also knew another famous dude, and Thorsten Veblen. Does it show that he is from Evergreen, the fact that he wants to make excuses for the black people in their non-wealth accumulating ways?
If "we all are advertising" then why doesn't he dress up for a plane ride too? Because a white guy does not need to advertise like that? He already does that with his clean car?
Test. Apparently
The problem with this kind of analysis that Hugh started out with is that he isn’t giving an adequate explanation of the causes of the for those cultural features
And what are they? I’m genuinely interested.
Any speculation on the cause would be just that - speculation. And the cause is not the point. You speak as though people have no agency. The only "cause" that matters is individuals making choices that lead to the data saying what it is. The point of the data is to provide a counter to the prevailing notion that all disparities in wealth are strictly due to discrimination and or the legacy of slavery and Jim crow.
synthesizerneil no it’s basic sociology. There are causes to behavior. Speaking of them isn’t denying agency that’s pretty fatuous
@@kevinpurnell9465 Lmao of course there are causes for behavior. But do those causes excuse the behavior? What purpose do you have for dismissing Hughes extremely valid observation because in this single clip you don't hear anything about the causes?
Almost every time you hear someone respond to blacks being called out with "yeah but why do you think they do that" it is to take the responsibility away from the black person and to blame society.
No matter the cause, the only fix is personal responsibility and changing behavior in this particular topic. So go ahead and explain to me what's so important about the cause and what that has to do with people choosing to get their shit together.
@tony thomas Do you think I said anywhere that spending habits are the only cause? Did Coleman say that?
No. No one said that. You made it up because you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.
It would be nice to see some quantification-- how much of the wealth gap is explained by black people spending more on luxury goods?
Here's a link to the full article he wrote: quillette.com/2018/07/19/black-american-culture-and-the-racial-wealth-gap/. If you don't feel like reading the whole thing, scroll to the paragraph that starts with "To what extent do poor spending habits explain the persistence of the wealth gap?"
There are links to the studies too, hope that helps.
That wasn’t an example of a cultural difference. That was an example of a class difference, using a cultured example of what luxury item they would buy. Here in Australia the poor white people have driveways full of jet skis and dirt bikes and flashy tvs that their kids will be paying off when they’re dead.
Why don’t you try to talk about why black culture is like that? Easy to make descriptive claims about black culture without providing any context.
Maybe he doesn't know why black culture is like that. Determining the "why" of cultural practices is often complicated and difficult. Do you know why black culture is like that? It does not diminish at all the statistical relevance of what he is demonstrating.
Randsurfer It’s obviously more complicated, but it’s the only serious way you can approach this topic. Anyone can read a few stats and sound intelligent but, in reality, they aren’t doing the hard legwork that this topic requires.
@@roohitlal7087 If you have the slightest clue why black culture puts value on buying bling, I'll listen to your opinion. Go ahead.
Randsurfer What a stupid argument. I’m not the one putting out videos to thousands of people, you dummy.
@@roohitlal7087 It's not an argument but I'll explain Coleman for you. The "wealth gap" is often used to explain or give an example of "systemic racism" against blacks. Coleman is pointing out what almost nobody knows: That blacks value bling over savings. He does not claim to know "why" but this observation is very important. Got it?
"Very famous evolutionary biologist." LOL
My question is define famous. :)
Bling.
(6:27) "Got" Does this mean that Newton didn't earn that degree, that it was given to him because of his ethnicity? Are you virtue signaling here Bret?
Huey P. Newton EARNED his PhD in The History of Consciousness program at U California (Santa Cruz) with a dissertation on the Black Panther Party, which I found to be an illuminating, fantastic read. And though Brett Weinstein implies otherwise, Dr. Newton never received a degree in the sciences.