Does it Deliver? - Spelljammer 5E Review
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- My review of the Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition Spelljammer Box Set. Going over The Astral Adventurer's Guide, Boo's Astral Menagerie, Light of Xaryxis, the DM screen.
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Index:
0:11 - Price and Pagecount
0:35 - Box Set Format
0:52 - Premium Print Materials
1:22 - Battlemaps
1:46 - Astral Adventurer's Guide
1:49 - 6 Playable Races
2:21 - 16 Ships
2:56 - The Rock of Bral
3:15 - Boo's Astral Menagerie
4:09 - Light of Xaryxis
5:37 - Free Prequel Adventure
6:13 - Even if you don't run modules
7:02 - Plot Overview
7:32 - Wildspace Systems
7:52 - Length
8:14 - DM Screen
8:29 - Final Thoughts
My biggest gripe with this seting is the rules (or more like the lack thereof). There are no rules for space combat, there are no rules or even guidelines for making ships, hell there are no rules for piloting your spaceship through space. We are in space for crying out loud! why didn't they put even something regarding gravity, the only source that roughly gives you any idea of how fast a PC falls is xanathars guide, that says that a player character falls 500 ft per round, you are in a space ship, if you fall off the ship, you would inmediatly get out of the bubble that surrounds the ship at that velocity. To summarize, i feel let down on this version of spelljammer, the races and bestiary are neat but the seting itself has a lot of holes that WotC just expects your Dungeon master to fill out.
That's fair and I know a lot of people want rules. I've done systems with space stuff and too many rules and too much minutia has bogged it down and took us out of the story to the point where we started avoiding it. So although I would like to see a bit more in the Astral Adventurer's Guide, I'm very much of the "less is more" mindset. But I don't think there's a 'wrong' way to play D&D and it's okay to want more there and to enjoy those rules.
It's easier to just ignore rules than it is to have to make it all up yourself, the least they could have done was provide solid guidelines at the very least but as it stands if you want any sort of rules or guidance you're better off buying the original release, as far as mechanics go this release is worthless.
Oh there are rules for all you've stated, its called "see page 6", which is pretty typical of 5th ed. Not impressed at all.
I guess we'd have to look at 2e? I found the lack of a concise magic item creation system frustrating as well.
A space combat summary rule could be written on one page with relative ease putting all the bits at your finger tips. I'm tempted to write one. An extra cheat sheet in the box set would not cause a problem or break the symmetry of having three books with 64 pages. They need new hard rules for three things.
A hard value for range where the presence of another ship or object slows the speed to combat speed. Perhaps related to hit points.
What happens to projectiles that miss?
It does say that the helm user can, on a roll, choose to move away or get closer but other options: Dodge, hide in asteroids, etc need to be options.
The other details can be listed as a simple list. How fast you fall. Can you fall out at FTL speed? How to keep the air fresh? Plants or purify air items. Rolling and pitching to bring all weapons to bare does not change your heading and speed. You can side strafe.
I've heard a lot of criticisms about the box set and most I don't pay much mind to but I do find it peculiar that the books don't have guidelines on making your own star systems and ships
well star systems are easy and dont really need explination. put ball of fire in center and round (or flat) rocks circling it. same goes for ships. just look at what they have as examples and be creative. what I'M not happy with is the lack of tactical ship combat rules.
@@sylvnfox but that is a "standard" star syste. What about those with two or more suns? How would the climate of planet change depending of the design of the Star system? The trajectory of the planets?
@@CristianzenV if that is what you are looking for not even 2e spelljammer went that far
The original Spelljammer box set did have tables to roll up random systems with unnatural planets and orbits. From flat planets to a system that orbits a planet like the old cosmological model.
@@Reubenaut yes and I didnt say it didnt. all I said was the 2e spelljammer didnt go anywhere close to how complicated @Cristian Villan was taling about. SJ2e's system creation was still incredibly simple. honestly I never ysed those charts I just made them up as I needed them. right now I have liek a dozen random ass starsystems I created on roll20. for example one of my systems I am calling "Dead Space" was attacked by Hadar. the primary is a husk and the planets have been reduced to either astroid belts, cluster worlds, or disks of water vortexes around a large chunk of stone or ice. some worlds have maintained their atmosphere but most have not
When I saw the box set I was really excited, thinking they were actually doing the setting right and making a full box set of books with items, creatures, star/planet systems, combat, etc. Then I saw the length of the books and lost a bit of hope, but still thought they might do something cool with the setting and maybe it would be OK. But then I received it and it's just so sparse. They took up way too much of the books with maps, didn't do anything to flesh out the worldbuilding, and barely included any items for the world. It's very disappointing and I really worry about the upcoming other alternate settings for 5e that are in the works as a result.
You know what would have been perfect for this box set format? Strixhaven. I think full setting books from now on should be separated like this into a general setting book, a monster book, and an adventure module. Sigil/Planescape will definitely need a set like this when we get that end of next year.
It definitely seems like a good approach. I don't know if it's the right one for every single setting, but it works well for settings.
@ Cyotee
Boxed sets at decent prices, not a rip off like this with minimal rules. Wizards is looking for ways to rob consumers and this cash grab is a prime example...
I would have liked more info on wildspace and the astral plane and also some more ship combat rules, going to steal a lot from ghost of salt marsh like the ship upgrades and weapon upgrade
Agreed, that first book was really what could use a bit more.
I agree with you on the art, material/paper quality, races, DM Screen, Map, changing to the Astral Plane, and actual ships, but the actual rules are a mess, we don't get much meaning exploration of beloved Wildsystems like Herospace, Realmspace, Greyspace..., no rules for away missions, the Astral Dominions needed more details (are they the Planes of the great wheel, independent Planes or Demiplanes like a Divine Ravenloft?). The contents for this product are so small (and no even combined it's not average, it's closer to SCAG terroritory, which was the previous smalling book), because they spent so freaking much on the consumer's budget on style, there was only dregs left for substance.
What rules do you think there ought to be for away missions?
Good lighting, editing, and you have a strong presence on camera.
Excellent delivery
I hope your channel blows up!
Very kind of you to say, thank you! I will say, I'm very happy with the speed the channel is growing. Having some time to learn and make mistakes has certainly been a good thing.
Good to hear it’s not as bad as some are making out! Still a little glum there aren’t meaty ship combat rules, but all in it’s heartening to hear it’s practically useful and decent quality, which is what I *really* care about
seriously! ALL they needed to do was put ONE number on eash ship a manuverability class and it would have delt with it. just a number saying how many tiles (hex/square) you have to move before you can change your facing. yes it says you can make one 90 degree turn per move but come on some ships should be able to turn faster than others. look at the hammer ship compared to the damselfly. the hammer ship is HUGE and MASSIVE it should have a VERY wide turn, now the damselfly is small and quick, it should turn on a dime! 747 vs a fighter jet
This might be simplifying what you have, but would you say, you pretty much have:
1. a setting book, (Astral Adventurers Guide)
2. a bestiary, (Boo's Astral Menagerie)
3. and then an adventure within the setting. Astral Adventurers Guide. (Light of Xaryxis)? I think because of what you said the size of the books is, this might be a step in the right direction when it comes to pre-written adventures.
Because as you mentioned you can look at a monster stats while still looking at the overall adventure and not have to flip through pages as much
That's pretty much what the three books are. People biggest qualms are with book one and it not being as much setting and space combat rules as they would like.
Its about the same price as a normal book and a dm screen at an Lgs. 50 book and 20 gm screen. I do like its broken up because i the dm wont have to pass the book at the table constantly. But i was hoping for more crunch and more rules for ship to ship combat.
When you put it that way, it is about the same. If it were up to me, I'd probably pass on the DM screen to save money though. But that's the ups and downs of bundles.
Absolutely love this format. Old box sets used to be formatted this way, but now it’s the best of both worlds with boxes and hardcovers. I like shorter books that take less time to read and aren’t stuffed with filler for filler’s sake. Big fan of this release and hope they stick to it as well.
I love seeing this rereleased. May pick it up for nostalgic value alone.
Nostalgia is a powerful thing sometimes!
Amazing video, thank you so much! It is the kind of video I was looking for. I am excited to play this with my players soon!
you're welcome!
I do find it a bit weird how much of the player guide is like half ship schematics. I would like some systems for world creation. But I'm not disappointed with the set as a whole. The monster book is a huge winner here. Although the races in the handbook are all solid to me.
And I also had the same thing with the page thickness! There have been a bunch of times where I checked the page numbers.
Ya, I think the AAG book could probably use like another 16 pages to round out some stuff.
you can feel that they have cheaped out on this book but i dont think the campaign is bad. it's just not what people expected. It is very new player friendly tho.
I'll stick with Starfinder FOR SURE...
I don't even play D&D and I'm tempted to buy this, the art is gorgeous!
The art is fantastic and one of the reasons why, despite my other posts, I don't regret buying it for a second.
I had to recheck the page as well a couple of times, it’s cool
Feels like a good choice for a reference books like D&D are. They get a lot of love paging back and forth. Growing up I had a final fantasy tactics players guide and the back had a bunch of tables of abilities and those pages were 100% falling out I played that game so much. Haha.
I agree...just a little unhappy that they did not release the Spelljammer "monstrous compendium" as a bonus in the physical box set. That is a big disappointment.
Great channel. Quick straightforward info.
Yea I was so confused why wouldn’t they it’s really stupid
Thanks! And my best guess would be they reduce a little production cost but also are generating reasons for people to start creating D&D Beyond accounts and up their userbase there.
They can say flash gordon was their inspiration but that won't stop me from making a Treasure Planet themed campaign
That’s the good stuff right there, letting the book inspire you to do your own twist on things.
i am doing a Evil queen theme since one of the story does have reps and makes it flow alot better and made a fun npc everyone would love to death X)
nice!
Good review. Thanks! I think they did the set well. I know many folks have complained about the lack of rules. I guess I'm from a different cloth. I can work out travel & ship-to-ship combat with everything in the core rule books. If I want something to have a special flare then I can make it up, quickly, using the basics of the system we already have. I know we are not all the same, but I am just of the feeling that the set is a good value & holds more than enough for me to make an exciting game. In the end, I just want Planescape though. lol
Well, now we know we are getting Planescape! Still gotta wait a bit though.
It's really bad, honestly. It's way too light on crunch and they did a poor job of replacing the phlogiston with the astral sea, not even bothering to address why you'd use a spelljammer instead of just thinking your way to your destination. As expected, it just doesn't work at all. It's like they realized that halfway through and gave up on trying, instead opting to release a half-ass product that produces more questions than it answers.
Yooo les go they finally came out!!!!
The time has arrived.
Was interested in checking this one out. Thanks so much for the high quality review!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching.
I feel the Spelljammer bundle was ruined by the astral content.
Those the ship deck maps, not battle maps.
I think it's a battle map of a ship deck? If it's top down and has a grid, it's a battle map to me. How do you define it? What *would* make it a battle map, if you don't think it is?
Love boxed sets.
5e continues to put most of the work onto DMs to fill in holes.
God, I wish my group would be willing to switch to another system. I'm so sick of 5e.
Make sure to take care of your needs too! Tell them you either want a break in DMing to be a player or to GM a different system. If they don't bite on either of those, then maybe it's time to step down for awhile.
This set has some highs and some really low points. For example, the mechanics for ships are really lacking and lame. In my opinion the low number of pages for the set is the culprit (Wizards move from 4 books a year to 5). Compare this setting book to the Eberron one. There’s a lot more of material there.
Ship mechanics could certainly use a bit more. But I own both this and Eberron and if I could only pick one of them, I'd pick this to be honest. This is just way more inspiring and exciting and a place I'd want to use in a campaign or borrow from for my own and Eberron I barely touch and have no plans or excitement to use in a campaign for the foreseeable future.
@@TheEssentialGameMaster I totally disagree with you. Eberron is full of useful info, plenty of story seeds and great tables for many situations that can arise during game sessions. Could it be better divided into several books? Yes, and I have the Beadle and Grimm’s version. For Spelljammer, that I was looking forward to the set since a long time ago, I’ll have to go back to the 2e boxed sets to adapt a lot of stuff that is missing in the 5e version. And that’s more work for the DM, just for the greed of WorC.
This is a great adventure and there's a lot of great stuff, the format is great. There just needs to be MORE in there. There's not enough rules for space combat and there needs to be more battlemaps. Better ones as well, there's no excuse for everything to be black and white. It's one thing for the ships, but the lack of good maps in the adventure is horse shit. Sadly that's par for the course for wizards.
I do think a little more would have been nice. I bet we won't see much improvement in 2D printed maps. Seems like they're putting energy into doing 3d VTT stuff now.
@@TheEssentialGameMaster I won't even mind THAT, so long as they don't half ass it. That said, as a dungeon master who has made many of my own maps, my question is why the hell a multi-million dollar company can't spare a couple dozen man hours to simply fix the issue.
There's no excuse, it doesn't take THAT long to make a cool adventure map, with the amount of money they make off these things, there's no reason they can't use 2-3 weeks of artist dev time to make an excellent map repertoire come with every adventure. Frankly, not only should -every single encounter- have a map, without question, the fact that each book doesn't come with a couple free random encounter maps for each setting is a missed opportunity that WotC has very little reason to NOT do.
But okay, let's say they do the whole VTT thing. That'll be great so long as that's not -also half assed- or they start trying to sell the digital miniatures individually like they're freaking magic the gathering cards or some bs like that.
How are the ship-to-ship combat rules?
Pretty much non-existent.This is one of folks biggest criticisms of the books and lines up with my thoughts that the first book in the set is the weakest. I think what this book is good for is sparking the imagination for cool adventures. If you Crave those details rules, this set probably isn't for you.
Talking about the Paper? The artwork? WTF?
No, Spelljammer 5E is NOT worth it! Here's a few reasons why...
1. No Lore: Once again, WotC have done the bare minimum and only really covered their 'precious' Forgotten Realms setting with Realmspace; and then they added some half-concieved "Doomspace". Where's Greyspace? Krynnspace? Darkspace? Where's the original Spelljammer Crystal Sphere's of Faeriespace? Herospace? Greatspace? or the dreaded realm of Clusterspace? Any mention at all?
And no Phlogiston! The biggest issue in my opinion, because they've turned a Fantasy Space into a poor-man's Science Fantasy, wannabe Science Fiction... Here's what "Space" is ment to be like...
You have the Phlogiston, a vast rainbowy ocean. Bobbing about, you have these Crystal Spheres; these are the various Universes/Settings of D&D, including FR, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, and Greyhawk. You travel the Phlogiston to these different Universes via these natural "currents" that flow some-ways between some; for example, Darkspace can only be reached by Herospace or Faeriespace routes, yet its "next too" Greatspace.
Then you have the Crystal Spheres, which are the containers of these other worlds of D&D... and when Spelljamming within, the "Planes" are represented by Planets within the Sphere...most of the time...Eberron's Siberspace, Thelanis is more of a Nebula then a planet or moon (according to KB). The Astral Sea, then, is that space you travel INSIDE a Crystal Sphere, and not the whole of the Multiverse.
And then there's Planets, which are usually the Planes of that setting.
But here's the big one..."Space" has air, technically, "Thin Air"; you can breathe it for awhile, but you'll eventually suffocate after about an hour. Its described like being atop the tallest mountains, where there *is* air, but its very thin. But Air for a Spelljammer is created by housing a Tree or Garden...which is why you had alot of the AD&D Spelljammer ships have "veggie patches"; that wasn't just food, that was the air unit, too. And the Centre of Gravity isnt outlined very well... If your Spelljammer is the heaviest object in its "bubble", then you can technically walk the X, Y, and Z axis of your Spelljammer. But its why Boarding could be problematic, because if 2 Spelljammers collide, they might not be able to pull themselves apart (especially if they are of similar weight).
2. Spelljammer Combat: Non existent. Get Descent Into Avernus, the Vehicle Rules in that are easily adapted into better Vehicle rules for Spelljamming... all of it, including repairs... (seriously, 1HP a day in a Dock? The standard 1hr repair rate in DIA is 1d4+2 for HELL VEHICLES... WotC is saying its easier to refuel and repair a vehicle powered by SOULS, then a Vehicle that operates in SPACE). I mean, this is SPELLJAMMER, D&D IN SPACE, and they give us nothing for Arcane Lances? An Arcane Weapons Helm? Basic Cannonball-firing Cannons?! Ship Upgrades like Engines, new types of Armour, new Weapons...nothing?!
3. "The DM decides"... Well, the DM has decided that this book is a waste of plastic-paper, and is gonna get out AD&D's Spelljammer books!
WotC didnt even try with this one, and it shows in every aspect where they just...didnt...from the old resources.
Well said.
Spending 300 days trying to wait for my ship to heal is kinda...excessive. Spelljammer was written by people who think ship combat is pirates just yelling ARRRR!
It's long, but that seems like an easy thing to modify. Unless it brings interesting storytelling or problems, I'd probably just gloss over it. Is a single rule you disagree with something that makes or breaks this for you. That isn't a con that would outweigh the other pros to me.
Sounds like a good set and setting
I think I’ll get it
It's definitely pretty strong. If the tone and concepts seem to fit your style, I'd say go for it. Something I'm clearly finding out is that they will publish more content than we can ever hope to fully playthrough.
@@TheEssentialGameMaster i would recomend trying to get a copy of the 2e book just to help flesh it out, or maybe ghost of saltmarsh
Summary: good looking, overpriced, missing basic rules (shipbuilding, space combat, etc.) and generic - really, just a run of the mill setting, where you swap standard races with something colorful and call it a day. Dungeon crawl in space. No, thank you.
Spelljammer is a trashfire of a product; the player options are nice and the bestiary is fun, but the combination of a sheer absence of rules for the vessels (handling, combat, customization, ect.), dearth of stellar phenomenon and the lack of any real information regarding the organizations or factions or such in space means that I'm left with precious few reasons for why anyone would want to go up into space; There's nothing up there except monsters and maybe people who want to steal your shit.
And quite frankly, If I can't think of a reason for players to go there or what they can do with it then it has fundamentally failed it's purpose as being a coherent setting.
But what about the module you cry? And my answer is: it sucks! The whole thing is overloaded with GMPCs (there are like, potentially 5 or 6 by the end of the module), it is railroady in the extreme, you have dozens of contingency scenarios if players lose fights or their ship gets wrecked or whatever and outside of like, 2 decisions that the players get to make at the end there is a complete absence of player agency. As a result the whole thing feels either like a rough draft or something you would have found for free on an angelfire page back in the mid 90's and in no way justifies the inflated price.
I think you put way too much emphasis on format and nothing on substance. Like WotC you completely glossed over that there was almost NO ship to ship combat rules in a setting that's basically pirate ships in space. Also the lore of the Starjammer universe was expansive in previous editions but 5E used very little of it and didn't create much of their own. Not to mention the false advertising. WotC advertised 3 thick sourcebooks that looked to be hundreds of pages each, but instead gave us 3 books that were only 64 pages each. This was a sparse and lazily put together product that was very expensive and didn't really do much to create a whole new campaign setting. Honestly this set was so bad that it has severely damaged my trust in WotC to the point where I don't think I will be buying future products.
I totally understand that the nitty gritty mechanics are really, REALLY important for some folks. To me, whether I'm excited and inspired to play in a setting is one of the most important factors for me, but I think that's a valid criticism. No doubt there are people far more disappointed in this product than I was. However, to say that WOTC led us to believe there would be three thick source books that were going to be hundreds of pages each is just factually inaccurate. From the time they officially announced Spelljammer at the D&D Direct in April, we already knew that it would be three books that were 64 pages each.
Great review. Seeing a lot of "not enough content". "Did WOC even try?!".
Everything I've seen/read of it so far is really great and compelling, and I can't wait to play.
People want different things out of what they spend their money for, which is fair, and not everyone will like this. But I don't know that it's totally fair to say they didn't try with the box set. The prequel adventure maybe. On my ipad/D&Dbeyond I literally saw broken links in that, like it missed going through proofing/quality control. Hopefully it's fixed by now though.
@@TheEssentialGameMaster The "WotC didn't try" comment is rooted largely in the number of times the book says "the DM decides" regarding rules. The lack of mechanics for ships and ship to ship battles really hurt. Wizards kind of hand waves away any problems with the system and heavily relies on the DM to ignore or correct where their system breaks down. Obviously, I am not going to have the ship take a month to get free from Earth's gravity well... but that's RAW. Clearly, I am not letting a flying monkey break the sound barrier, but that's RAW. They are getting lazy in that too much of what DM's want guidance on is getting hand waved with "the DM decides."
@@drewwendell Thanks for elaborating on that point of view!
@@TheEssentialGameMaster Don't get me wrong, I bought it and it's fantastic, but the tight page count means they couldn't fit a lot of stuff Spelljammer fans _loved_ from 2e. It's still a great book full of stuff a spelljammer fan will love.
@@drewwendell I think it's a double edged sword. They make rules for everything they run-the-risk of alienating people by over-complaining and alienating people. If they make it to wishy-washy they piss off the people who want clarification on everything!
Must be a nightmare to design these books.
I agree however. The chimps won't be breaking the spindbarrier.
I’m selling it. Going back to original spelljammer. 5e continues to disappoint.
5E is definitely a different vibe than 2E. It's a shame there's not *new* material coming out that scratches that itch for the people that love a lot of what 2E was.
@@TheEssentialGameMaster I think I’m going to roll back to 2e or 3.5. 5e has become silly to me.
I will say that for me personally this bookset was just disappointing on the spelljammers part of this sets name sake.
It is definitely a pretty polarizing release. Maybe another release (or another system) will hit the mark you're hoping for.
@@TheEssentialGameMaster that would be grand
Honestly I thought this was a terrible box set. There are very few/no rules for actual ship combat or really using the ships. It isn't fleshed out in the slightest. Not to mention that as a setting guide it doesn't even flesh out the setting.
Literally the two things this box set needs to do and it fails at both.
Really appreciate you taking the time to explain why you don't like it specifically. I think it will help other viewers and I know what I look for and like in my TTRPGs and it's good to get more perspective on what other people want and are looking for as well for the future, I know there are a lot of different ways to play and different pieces people like and dislike. Definitely a perspective I plan to keep in mind with future reviews.
Nice video
#goonballoonfanclub
yeah.... gonna have to disagree with the praise here. key components for space adventuring are barely addressed. terrible books. don't donate $ to our corporate masters
I'm not into the volume of rules 2E has on some of this stuff. Keep the rules simple and focus on the storytelling and inspiration and ideas. But I do think I should have mentioned more about how little there in terms of that, because I know it does matter a lot to some folks and I think it is a very valid way to play, it's just different from my preferred style.
Light Of Xaryxis is trash!
Why would Wizards bring this back? It was never good . I'm cofused. Looks like a cash grab to me. They should have brought back Star Frontiers...
That would've been interesting. Maybe we'll see it someday.
I AM disappointed with this...
And that's fair. While I am not bothered by a number of things with the style of play that I usually do, I am starting to get a better sense from the comments of how this set can impede on the things that specifically are fun for certain people.
It's bad
The adventure is fantastic and failing is hilarious. Value is good but rules are light