Why I Hate Attack on Titan's Ending
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- Опубликовано: 5 янв 2024
- Apologies for the audio issues, I'm still getting used to my new software.
Today I explain one of the reasons why Terminator 2 is amazing and you should watch it if you haven't already. Oh, and I also go over the biggest problem with how Attack on Titan ended. If you're interested in more of my thoughts about Attack on Titan's ending check the links below.
Why Attack on Titan's Ending Doesn't Work:
archiveofourown.org/works/306...
How Attack on Titan Should Have Ended:
archiveofourown.org/works/513...
Also, if you're wondering why I used Hollow Knight music in this video, well, it's partly because I really like Hollow Knight, but it's mostly because if I used music from Attack on Titan this video would likely get claimed and blocked, and I'd rather avoid that. 
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Some people claim that I'm just mad that my expectations weren't met. While you're technically correct, you've also managed to completely miss the entire point of the video. I would have been fine with my expectations being subverted if it had been, you know, good.
The thing is, I spent years reading the manga and getting heavily invested in the unfolding narrative. I'd often make predictions about what would happen next, and frequently my predictions would be wrong, because the story would surprise me with something that was MORE compelling and MORE interesting than what I had predicted. I was happy for my expectations to be incorrect so long as the what the story actually did was good.
That's what made the ending so crushingly disappointing to me. It was the very first time that what the story did was WORSE than what I had predicted. And not just worse, significantly worse.
I would have been perfectly fine with my predictions and expectations about the ending being wrong, so long as the ending was good and made sense. But it wasn't good and it didn't make sense. And that's what I'm upset about.
Edit: Also, I never expected this video to get over 100 views, let alone over 6,000 views. Had I known that I might have been slightly more diplomatic, though I still stand by everything I said in the video.
If you'd like to hear more of my thoughts on the ending, whether you're genuinely curious, or you're one of those weirdos who watches things that they know will make them upset for god knows why, I made a second video detailing everything else I hated about the ending.
ruclips.net/video/eiOgAihwAW4/видео.html
I agree with you. The ending wasn't good. I started seeing problems even before the ending chapters. I just have one complaint. Please know this is a fictional story, please don't compare fictional genocide to the Palestine/Israel conflict. Please. Real people getting killed in Palestine is just depressing and terrible. Attack On Titan isn't real. I know you didn't mean it badly, I'm sure you didn't mean to insinuate that. I know you were giving an example. I'm sorry if I've offended you or it seemed uncalled for. I just wanted to say that
@@syedarizvi7290 ngl the dynamic of marley & eldia can be mapped on to israel & palestine pretty well. the core themes of the story parallel the history & potential future between those 2 countries strongly, and if im being real i think the final arc of aot even foreshadows the path that islams & jews are destined to go down if the current pace keeps up.
maybe this is a hot take idk, but this opinion formed naturally for me as the situation in gaza escalated.
This is why I never tried to look at AOT as anything more than snuff material
What gets me are the people who claim that they have already proven your arguments wrong, and that anybody who disagrees with them is too stupid to understand, so they won't explain why again.
To someone who's never heard the defense, ie: me
@@monkeywrangler5615 you have the best take on attack on titan.
bro and what ever happened to "no character being safe"? They literally fought hundreds of titan shifters on Eren's bones, and were perfectly fine other than Levi breaking his leg.
Amen. Eren as a character devolved into Black Pilled, EdgeLord. Fucking shame, I wanted this story to be more than a Snuff Piece. But the characters with heft to them got shafted left & right.
Moral lesson: Don’t assume. You will only be disappointed.
"If your expectations are always low you can never be disappointed." A wise person
No one expects peak to become trash, ig we all learned a valuable lesson in life, even if things are great they can always get bad
Eren's personal suffering was so great since the very beginning, that even Isayama himself (and the majority aot fans) couldn't fathom it.
I'm glad there are fans out there who are speaking out against the bullshitery that is AOT's ending. Gives me hope.
You’re getting a lot of hate from a blinded fan base. Pretty much all your points are valid in addition to being presented convincingly. Great analysis
Like I assume many did, I got the panel of Eren crying in the water spoiled to me. Just the image, I threw my phone away before I could read the dialogue.
I thought to myself "Is that really the reason people hate the ending? Did they just forget that crying is normal for Eren?" and I was relieved because I thought the people who read the ending of the manga and didn't like it may have just been dumb.
But when I actually arrived at the final episode and saw the reason Eren was crying at that scene it felt so fucking bizarre I legit thought I was watching a parody.
Since when was love the most important aspect of attack on titan? They showed Eren having feelings for Mikasa in like 2 episodes.
Also this shit lost me completely at "I just really wanted to see these sights. I don't know why, I just had to"
Way to completely kill a character in 20 minutes
I disagree with the majority of your points within this video.
I've listed them in chronological order below (I apologize for the long comment if you choose to read it all):
10:30 - Before starting the rumbling & seeing the entirety of the paths' past and future, it's strongly insinuated that Eren intends to wipe out everybody. It's only when he begins the rumbling that he sees the future and realises that he can only destroy 80% before he is stopped by the alliance. That is the point where he instead plans to make his friends into heroes, because it is the best solution that satisfies both his desire to stop Paradis from being imminently destroyed by Marley while also satisfying his desire to allow his friends to enact their freedom and stop him.
12:00 & 13:17 - Assuming the rest of the world will be "terrified and pissed off by the rumbling" could be accurate in some contexts, but we lack the foundational knowledge of the universe to state such things. Do other countries hate Eldia as much as Marley do? Are they allies to Marley? Do they fear the Eldian people, or do they fear the now non-existent titan powers? What is their cultural outlook towards acts of violence/hatred? Do they, like the alliance, only want to seek peace after so much war and bloodshed? Would they be fearful enough to attack the remaining Paradis population after some of that very population was responsible from stopping their own country from being annihilated? Would they recognize that Eren Jeager/The Jeagerists are not the same as innocent residents of Paradis?
You cannot confidently answer these questions with the information that we are provided, you can only speculate. Even assuming the worst, the threat imposed by the remaining 20% is still a lot less than the threat imposed by Marley if the rumbling didn't occur.
It's stated by Eren that the remaining 20% possess the "same level of civilization as Eldia", insinuating that they either possess the equivalent combined strength of Paradis, or they have the same level of military equipment as Paradis, both of which are suitable alternatives than having to fight Marley. Nothing pertaining to the number of the remaining population is ever stated; I'm not sure that it's fair to estimate the remaining population as 200m when it is purely speculation without evidence.
12:50 - To clarify, Eren does only seek Paradis' safety in the short-term, for the sake of his friends' & people's survival. You state "In the long term, Paradis is fucked", but long-term peace (as a result of human nature) is impossible to achieve anyway with the current mindset that we possess, even if Armin & the alliance want to think otherwise. Eren achieved all that he possibly could given the circumstances that he had. We even see that Paradis thrives in peace for centuries after the Rumbling, so I'm a little confused as to how you can insinuate that Eren's plan to destroy 80% "fails" and "is stupid" when all he actually sets out to do is allow his friends/Paradis to live free & peaceful lives, which he succeeds in doing for some centuries.
Even assuming Paradis alone survived with its population of ~1m, eventually war would have broken out between those Eldians on Paradis in the distant future for some unknown reason. "So long as there is more than 1 human alive, there will be war." This is not a problem with Eren's planning capabilities, it is a problem with human nature - a theme that is central to the story. So, by extension of this logic, Eren's adapted plan (which changed when he started the rumbling & saw that he would only destroy 80%, like I mentioned above) to achieve short-term peace while also averting Marley's genocide of Eldians by using the rumbling was successful, even if it would guarantee a shorter period of peace than destroying the entirety of the world would have.
13:35 - A delayed conflict is infinitely better than perpetual conflict/imminent genocide. I'm not sure if there's any logical way that you can preface the imminent genocide of Marley upon Paradis as a "preferable outcome" from Eren's perspective.
13:45 - Eren does not care for the strangers that die in the rumbling nearly as much as he cares for Eldians/his friends, which is the fundamental reason that he starts the rumbling. This is a central part of the tribalistic themes that are present throughout the story.
Eren is not an unarguable "hero"; he is a morally conflicted anti-villain who does what he must to save those that he cares about, while also adhering to his own core values. He does this at the expense of innocents who live outside of Paradis.
14:14 - It is not stated anywhere in the story that Eren always knew the entirety of the future before starting the rumbling. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that he saw fragments of the future through the power of the Attack Titan, but never is it stated that he always knew the whole future. After starting the rumbling, it is logically implied that he gained full access to the paths along with the Founding Titan powers, which is what "merged the past and future" together for him, and also where he realised that he was only going to destroy 80% of the world and had to adapt his plans accordingly.
14:30 - He goes along with his plan after starting the rumbling because:
A) he knows he cannot change the futures that he sees
B) there is no other way that he can attempt to ensure that Paradis isn't the victim of genocide
C) he knows it will end the titan curse, which he wants to do
14:35 - Eren is a slave to Freedom, and has no choice to surrender to fate that he sees, like he explicitly states to Armin. This is one of the tragic aspects of his character that makes him so interesting.
14:52 - He does want to do this, and leaves it up to Mikasa in the confession scene. Mikasa doesn't confess, therefore Eren chooses to save Paradis instead. This is quite simple really.
15:10 - His genocide does work in accordance with his ideology & all the things he wants to achieve, like I outlined in the above points.
15:13 - Eren is still acting in accordance with his beliefs/ideologies when committing the rumbling, he just becomes more confused/lost as a result of the corruption that the power of the Founding Titan brings to him, the merging of his perception of time, as well as being clouded by his own hubris & desire. This is quite clearly stated.
15:34 - You are comparing quotes from pre-rumbling Eren vs post-rumbling Eren, which is not a very fair comparison, and does not account for the fact that he didn't have full access to the paths memories until acquiring the Founding Titan. His character also takes quite a strong tonal shift as a result of how lost he becomes after attaining the Founding Titan.
15:42 - I don't know about you but I think there are quite a few clear signs that Eren has feelings for Mikasa throughout the entirety of the story, he just isn't the type of person to admit this to anyone. He admits it to Armin in the paths because he's at the end of the road. It's quite normal for people to confess things in their final moments.
16:01 - The depth was & still is there, just in slightly different contexts.
16:07 - This just sounds like an emotional outburst trying to blame Isayama for your own negative interpretation of the story, which personally I find a little unnecessary and quite petty.
16:51 - The new changes to this scene make it significantly more emotionally understandable from both Eren's & Armin's perspectives.
Here is a good breakdown if you need more context: ruclips.net/video/tOIz84HFdvQ/видео.html
17:02 - You can make a protagonist's actions of genocide understandable while also highlighting how atrocious they are. Eren acts in accordance with his own values for the sake of those whom he cares about, which is very human.
17:28 - This is an unnecessarily charged statement and sounds very much like you are promoting harassment, even if the caption states otherwise. "F*** everyone who has let him get away with this s***"? I mean, c'mon man.
17:46 - The final credit scene is open to interpretation but personally I understand it as showing that humanity will continue to perpetuate war for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean we can't start taking steps to change that (which is how I interpret the boy walking towards the tree with a dog at his side, rather than being chased into the tree by vicious dogs like Ymir was).
18:14 - The message is centrally about our flawed human nature & how we fail to empathise with people who aren't close to us, but also our potential ability to rise above that and strive for peace if we all put in the effort to achieve that.
Now listen, I don't think this ending is "flawless" or whatever. I don't believe any piece of writing can be "flawless", because there are always multiple ways to interpret things.
With AoT, I think that Ymir's character & motives were underdeveloped, I think that the titan powers/paths lacked explanation as to how they worked, I think the revelation about Eren controlling Dina was quite unnecessary, and I think that the presentation of the final chapters is quite confusing for first-time viewers, and too many things are left ambiguous/unexplained. But even accounting for all of that, it's still a 7/10, at the very, very least, especially when you compare all the aspects that the anime succeeds in. I interpret people who claim it's a 5/10 or anything less as having an unreasonably clouded judgement as a result of their negative outlook on the ending, especially when comparing how excellent the rest of the series is in comparison to the critiqueble ending arc.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Above all I think it is important to discuss things civilly & constructively, and avoid arguments that are fuelled by your bias/emotions rather than your objective view on the series.
Holy shit bro, imagine writing all that for a mere 24 likes. The video author didn't even respond to it.
@@agrimpuriya2585 lol i wrote it more to organise my own thoughts on the ending rather than to get a response. im just out here nerding out in the corner 🤪 we did talk a little on his other aot vid tho
I'm not the guy who made the video but for me I would have preferred if Eren's plan was always a 100% rumbling and he didn't know if he would succeed or not. you can still have the alliance stop him but his goal should have been a full rumbling.
80% being his goal is a horrible plan.
- He left the ultimate fate of Paradis to chance, knowing the conflict would continue but hoping Armin and the others could make temporary peace, which they do, but the island is destroyed later.
- He didn't even know the titan curse would end by Mikasa freeing Ymir, he said as much to Armin in their talk
- His friends lived long lives except Hange and Sasha who he got killed
the 50 year plan (small scale rumbling to destroy global militaries - followed by working with Hizuru to modernize and strengthen Paradis until relying on the rumbling was no longer necessary) would have achieved the exact same thing but without killing millions of unnecessary innocent lives. Eren refused this plan saying A. he wont sacrifice Historia and B. he wont leave Paradis fate to chance. But he ends up leaving Paradis to chance anyways so the entire Rumbling was just because he liked Historia as a friend? he also says passing the founding and beast titans down is some horrific crime when it would only need to happen like 4 times each totaling 8-10 deaths as opposed to the untold millions he killed instead. if he didn't attack Marley at the declaration Sasha and Hange would still be alive so he's fine sacrificing them I guess.
again he seems to not have known the titan curse would end, but I don't see why he couldn't have ended it with the Founding titan powers anyways. The alliance specifically notes Eren is allowing them to use their titan powers when he could stop them. so he could stop all Eldians from having titan powers. or convince Ymir not to build the titans in the first place as she doesn't need to be a slave anymore. or alter Eldian biology to prevent them from becoming titans in the first place.
The only answer left is fatalism. That Eren did the Rumbling because he's stupid and/or he was simply fated to do so and had no say in it in the first place, which does explain everything. but not in a satisfying way. removing all agency from your protagonist at the very end of your story and revealing that everything they have said and done for half the story was not their choice and they were just pretending to have character motivations is not a good way to end a character arc.
really at the end of the day, if ALL Eren set out to do was protect his 10 friends he could have accomplished it in a million better ways:
- literally sneak them to anywhere else on earth and start new lives (maybe idk in Hizuru??) leave the island's fate to chance maybe using small rumbling to remove immediate military threats
- do Zeke's euthanasia plan and tell the world exactly what he's done and that if they just wait 50 or so years the Eldians will be gone peacefully removing titans from the world while allowing his friends the long lives he wished for (threaten the rumbling small scale or full as a deterrent)
- as I said do the 50 year plan keeping your friends and the island safe (you could potentially work around sacrificing Historia by having Zeke impregnate a bunch of people to extend the royal line, if you still want to argue her life is more valuable to Eren than Sasha's, Hange's, and millions of other's combined)
- ready for this one... hand himself over to Marley publicly, he could even do it at willy's declaration where all the ambassadors and newspapers were, walk on stage and say Paradis is peaceful, please leave the island alone, here I am. the entire war is to remove the threat of the founding titan, if he gave it to Marley they wouldn't have much reason to attack Paradis, maybe even offer an exchange of some kind for collateral.
now again all this being said, his goal being a full rumbling because he wanted to wipe the world clean in a twisted vision of Armin's book/ make 100% sure the island and his friends were safe without any chance of retaliation from the world. it's still a horrible thing to do but at least it makes more sense then leaving just enough people alive to still pose a threat to your friends and island, you made a point saying Eren cares way more about those close to him and that's why he's willing to kill innocent strangers, then why bother showing mercy at the finish line?. you could even still have the alliance stop him and the actual ending be the same
if you're saying he altered his plan after realizing he would be stopped, then it wasn't too late to undo the rumbling and change to a better plan. again unless he wasn't in control the whole time which is not a good way to end your protagonist's arc
On your first point, why would Eren not just pivot to a partial rumbling as was suggested by Zeke's people?
Once he discovered that 100% is not achievable, he should've realized that going through with the rumbling is an idiotic idea. He could've gone for Marley's military bases and stopped there. Or thought of SOMETHING else.
And if he wanted to make his friends into heroes, there are much better ways to do it that don't involve killing 80% of people. Like Jesus Christ Eren.
I don't agree with the creator on everything, but I very much agree that Eren shouldn't have been able to see the entire future. It destroys his motivations and also muddles a ton of themes. If the future is predetermined then why am I supposed to take Historia's comment about choices mattering seriously? The story has already told me that choices don't matter. Additionally, making Eren a slave to fate actually removes a ton of his culpability from the rumbling. I personally think Eren should have been portrayed in a worse light, but that Isayama was afraid of that and pivoted at the last moment. No I didn't want a 100% rumbling but Eren should've been fully responsible for his actions and in control of his decisions.
Oh, and Ymir is a complete plot device of a character. It's never clear whether certain things are being done by her or Eren and the founder's mechanics are completely broken. Makes zero sense why killing Zeke would stop the rumbling.
Some of the points are being brushed over and you haven't understood his character that well
1- Eren can't see the whole future, just his own future, events that his future self can see. So he doesn't know how the 80% annihilation will end up.
2- Eren isn't some genius, and in the end is just a person who only cares about his friends, he's not a nationalist like his father who wanted to protect and save the entire race of Eldians. Deep down, all Eren cares about is his friends. There are numerous moments throughout the story which showcase his bond with them. His decisions were carried out to ensure that his friends could live long and happy lives - which they presumably do.
3- As mentioned earlier in the show, total world annihilation isn't the solution since that'll only confine the fighting to within Paradis, moreover, not ending titan powers ensures the cycle of cannibalisation keeps continuing.
4- "Why is he going along with it anyway?", at the point he allowed his friends to stop him you revered him as a good character, why not raise this question then? What was your expectation of Eren?
5- Why didn't he just live the rest of his years with Mikasa? He wanted to ensure all of his friends live "long and happy lives", that was literally quoted by him. He's selfish, but not just for his own sake.
Your main problem is that you expected Eren to want the protection of his race, which was made out to seem like that, but not entirely. At any given moment, Eren's main goal was always ensuring the safety and protection of his friends, even in his altered state, he couldn't control his tears when Sasha had been shot.
If Eren's plan was to have his 5-6 friends to live long lives then why didn't he go with Zeke's plan that would basically guarantee it if Paradis focused on diplomacy and fixing relationships with other countries rather than nuking Marleyan port that led to the rumbling
Following Zeke's plan would mean his friends would still die in 4 years, notably Armin.@@xcrowx8140
because this wouldnt solve the problem of the titans@@xcrowx8140
1. Yes
2. He cared about his friends, but his main drive was freedom right from the beginning.
3. As you said in 2. Eren is no genius, for him it must make sense, that there will be freedom and peace of only paradise stands and he could have ended the titan powers after annihilation of the rest of the world, when they wouldn't have had any enemys left.
4. As said his main goal right from the start was freedom, it makes no sense, for him to let his friends stop him, before he could ensure his goal was reached.
5. If we follow the idea I pointed out at 3. this would have been an option for him after he reached his goal.
All this time his main drive was the concept of freedom, from the start up to the point his friends attack him, we got zero hints, that it could be any other way. His "Value-Shift" came deus ex machina at the end, which is a giant plunder for the autor, since in contrast to the really good writing up to this point, thats one of the worst things you can do in writing. For me it undermined the whole story to a degree that I would not call it great storytelling anymore, still got, but no longer great.
also he was following what founder ymir showed him, and even before he got the attack titan he had his memories shown then removed again and again
Hey, brother. Do you have a place we can talk? Twitter?
I wanna talk about ending plotholes with ya
I find it funny how when people talk about bad writing they immediately compare the show to Game of Thrones ending.
Based + Flochpilled
Gotta agree with you.
It definitely made me remember Code Geass's ending but definitely they fell short.
The ending seemed rushed to be honest I understand his ideas but... it still felt shallow.
Y, that's my main problem too, in Code Geass, everything got prepared for a future into peace, while in Attack on Titan, for me it seems like a lot of groundwork for more conflict. In addition you could have seen the ending of Code Geass comming, while in AoT it came out of nowhere, up till the end Erens main drive was freedom and mainly for himself + his friends. The rumbling has seen logical, with him really planning to go all out with it.
Code Geass was disappointment
Code geass ending was actually worse. Lelouch made himself the pinnacle of evil so the world would stop fighting and it succeeded because the writer wrote lulu succeeding.
There no way humans would choose to stop fighting and be happy because the one we hate is dead. All they are going to do is find something else to hate.
People love fighting and even if they dont they still end up in the mix.
Aot was more realistic because people pretend hate is something that disappears over night and aot showed it.
In the same manner that people still hate gabi for being an indoctrinated child soldier even after she realized her errors and apologized folks still hate her irrationally.
Just look at cg ending, you don't honestly believe bc of 1 guys death people would stop hate theyve held forever in the entire world right?
Lelouchs plan worked because the writer wrote it working. Humans clear one obstacle and immediately get infront of the next.
@@000052704 wow and here I am thinking I had a bad opinion about humankind.
Lelouchs plan would work even in our world. Not permanently but at least a couple of decades.
Why:
All nation have united into an federation of nation even before Lelouch became king. And this federation is more like the EU than the UN, which means they are really dependend on each other and infighting is more with politics than weapons.
Than we have the nation leaders, for the biggest parts of the world we know them and can trust them to want to keep peace.
Also the big war against lelouch destroyed nearly all big warfare weapons and it takes time to rebuild.
In addition we have Zero (Suzaku) as keeper of peace and symbol of justice. And he will most likely live another 60+ years.
Yes there is still hate, but mostly in a minority of the world population and at the end of code geass not in a single nation leadership.
Aside from civil wars, warfare is started by the political leaders, if they don't want war, we would not get war.
It may be national pride that brings young man to fight in wars, but they do not start them.
And normal people would hat what they always hated in their small world, things like the neighbors dog, the guy who got your promotion and more small daily things.
And I'm sure there will be war again, but it will take a lot of time.
And at least the small timeframe we see in Code Geass will be peacefull, so it is realistic.
While in AoT it doesn't even make sense for Eran to try something like it.
For his mindset it would have been more logical to wipe out all humans aside from his island and then remove the titanpowers from the world.
What will happen next in AoT will be a revange war, totally undermining any of the goals that people say Eran would have had. All his friends will be forced to fight the next years an will most likely die. And the island will most likely be wiped out.
The ending feels more like the writer did think in the last chapter: "Wait, I can't wipe out most of humankind, what to do?" Than a real logical ending to the story.
@@000052704ah shit no it is just the plot of Code geass actually made sense. The plot pushing the japan and britannia to stop the war is more natural than the "realistic" story of aot.
It is only shown how much Isayama is trash writer 😂. Everything about snk season 4 is stupid. The only good thing was the warriors. Gabi carried this story so much
Eren killing his mom, Eren was controlled by Ymir the whole time, Eren trying to pull a lelouch via brittinia, Armin not being mad at Eren for Genocide but mad for him for hurting mikasa’s feeling, Eren’s whole incel breakdown for mikasa, Armin thanking Eren for killing 80% of the world, Mikasa was the main character the whole time, Ymir was in loved with the king, Titan powers and the curse of Ymir is gone, No big character deaths, Annie dosen’t lose her father and doesn’t suffer at all, Pieck wishes she talked to Eren, Reiner saying “Eren what a man you are”, Everyone forgives Eren, Levi giving the biggest F you to Erwin, Hange and the other scouts, Historia marrying her bully and having a child with him, Reiner sniffing a letter, mikasa never taking off that scarf, mikasa forever will be obsessed with Eren, she will never move on and Eren is a bird.
*O N L Y Y M I R K N O W S*
Yep safe to say this was the worst ending ever.
I don’t think he cared about killing the whole world or what would happen to paradis island longgg into the future. I think he only cared about having his friends and loved ones having a peaceful and free life. And of course being the people who killed him and became heroes. Once the last of his friends died of old age , I think he wouldn’t give 2 shits about what happened to the world / paradise island
By your logic, sasha, hange, floch and levi, who almost got killed, aren't his friends
But he did it without their consent, and didn't once consider that maybe they wouldn't want him to do something like this.
@@annett5 I mean Floch wasn't his friend. He was just a pawn in Eren's plan. You're right about the others though.
@@ChavvyCommunist he was. Ch 130. Until ch 139 he wasn't his pawn
@@annett5 They are (ion know bout floch) But there was no vision where Sasha/Hange lives.
Could there be two conceptions of the outside world that are mutually exclusive yet exist in the same narrative? Udo said that Marley treats Eldians well compared to other countries, yet there are other times that those other countries are presented as possible allies against Marley. It seems to me that the world that Eren decides to destroy and the world that the Alliance tries to protect might not be the same world...
The anime added some small but crucial change:
1. Armin no longer endorses Eren; they removed the controversial "thank you or becoming a mass murderer for us" line and added a "things ended up this way because I'm just an idiot who got power" line, now blaming Eren's character rather than it calling it the correct or only choice
2. the pro-fascist "genocide works out great!" finale where Paradise prospers under the Jaegerist, is more ambigous, with showing everybody trying to rebuild outside and bombing Paradise in the future
Despite it being 99% the same (with things like the farmer + Historia plotline), how you end a story and with what message makes a massive difference. That is why people said this was a different enough version they can live with.
thats why i hate this fandom. they overspeculate on overinsane ending, doesnt get it and call it TERRIBLE
Tbh Paradise should have took over when they were trying to rebuild, rule whatever was left
There are still aspects of the ending I dislike but I am happy with the changes
The only thing I disagree with you on here is the remaining 20 percent bit. There may still be way more people than on Paradis the moment it ends, but the amount of damage caused by the rumbling will probably kill a large percentage of that remaining population. The environmental damage will cause famines, and probably natural disasters too. The all the infrastructure destroyed will plunge the world back decades if not centuries. Centuries of knowledge will be lost, and the skills needed to create the lost technology. The unprecedented refugee crisis will leave the uncrushed areas of the world unable to cope with the sheer number of people. Disease will spread like wildfire, leaving only the immune and the dead. People will fight amongst themselves and kill each other for what's left. All of this will be going on at the same time and compound one another.
What's left of humanity be lucky if it only takes them a decade to recover from the rumbling. Imagine what's going on in Gaza right now times a fucking million.
Perhaps, but it's hard to say. Obviously there would be a lot of chaos in the short term, but I don't think it would be as hard for humanity to bounce back as you think. The areas of the world like Hizuru that weren't destroyed by the rumbling would still have their knowledge and infrastructure intact, and it's likely that even among the refugees there would still be a decent number of scientists and engineers who would know how to rebuild what was lost. So while a lot of knowledge would be lost, I don't think it would plunge the world back centuries.
Plus, if I'm being overly analytical and cynical, I think the 20% estimate is dubious given what was shown. Based on the sequence of events that happened during the rumbling, and based on the incomplete maps of the world we were shown, the rumbling flattened most of the continent, which appears to be roughly the same size as Eurasia in our world. Now, if in our world Eurasia was rumbled, that would kill off a lot of people, but there would still be about 35% of the world population left, possibly more depending on how many people were able to flee the continent before the rumbling arrived. And that's assuming that the population density of the Marleyan continent is the same as Eurasia relative to the rest of the world. If it's not, then the percentage of the world that would survive the rumbling could be much higher.
It is true that the outside world would struggle to recover in the aftermath, but it's also a fact that Paradis's infrastructure and technology is about a century behind the rest of the world because of what the royal family did. So in all likelihood those two factors would cancel each other out, and while in the short term Paradis would be safe, in the long term they would be fucked.
@@thegamingarchaeologist You're massively under-estimating how badly refugee influxes fuck up a country. I can't blame you though because it's hard to get a sense of scale without real examples.
The refugee crisis caused by the Rwandan civil war and genocide has destabilised the Democratic Republic of the Congo for almost 30 years now. The presence of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, from 1948, was still destabilising the country into the 80s. And those are both regional examples that involved numbers in hundreds of thousands, or at most millions, of refugees. And yet their mere presence as unsupported refugees in neighbouring poor countries plunged them into civil wars.
The rumbling would destroy most of not just the human race, but most of their infrastructure and most of the natural environment too.
The consequences of the rumbling would be so terrible, Paradis would be extremely lucky if they weren't negatively affected by them. The outside world would be fucked for centuries. That's just a fact. It'd probably drive most multi cellular life on Earth to extinction just for starters.
The number of butterfly effects that the rumbling would trigger, all at the same time, is impossible to figure out for sure. But you don't need to be a scientist to figure out it'd be really bad.
1. He literally says he didn't know whether he would be stopped or not in the episode, and he stated in the chapter that he would have kept moving forward if he wasn't stopped. He only found out hed be stopped and ultimately only kills 80% after he activated the founder.
2. Erens involvement in his mothers death was hinted at since the future memories episode (didn't show grisha the memory of her death on purpose)
3. Eren explicitly states that the 20% remaining is equivalent to the population on paradis, thus being on a level playing field from this point on. Arguably paradis will be at an advantage from having a head start on military + industrial growth. Literally shown in the episode while the outside world was still in tents lol.
4. He didnt know all of the future, he says he has no clue what Mikasa will do to change things.
5. The outside world does not harbor hatred considering they elected the alliance to be ambassadors for the allied forces. Any peace failures that happen pin the jeagerists at fault.
1. If he only found out that he would be stopped and would only kill 80% of the world after he activated the founder, then why did the story neglect to mention this fact? Why did the story continue to insinuate that Eren had only seen part of the future until the very last minute?
2. Uh, no the fuck it wasn't. 10 year old Eren was there when his mother died, remember? By all accounts THAT was what the audience would have assumed that he was referring to, not that his future self had deliberately spared Bertolt and killed his mother. That was a stupid and unnecessary addition to the story that came out of nowhere, and was absolutely not needed.
3. And you really haven't put any thought into this at all, have you? As I pointed out, the world of AOT as a whole appeared to be at about the same level of development as our world during WW1, and at that time the population was 1.7 billion. Assuming our world and AOT's world are roughly equivalent, and rounding down to be generous, if the world population before the rumbling was 1 billion, after the rumbling it would be 200 million. Paradis only has 1 million people. Do the math, and remember that the world as a whole was a century ahead of Paradis in terms of development, and odds are good that among the 200 million survivors there would be a fair amount of architects, engineers, scientists, and other experts who could help rebuild the lost infrastructure. So while it would take time, in the long run Paradis would be fucked. Also, you think ONE shot of tents automatically means that the entire outside world was destitute? How simpleminded is that?
4. Irrelevant. Eren explicitly says that the past, present, and future are all one to the Founder, which means that he would necessarily know how it would all turn out, at least in regards to himself, which actively contradicts what had been previously established.
5. "The outside world does not harbor hatred"
HAHAHAHAHA
Oh wait, you're being serious. Let me laugh even harder.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Are you fucking kidding me? Let me remind you that before the rumbling the world was preparing to completely wipe out Paradis. You're telling me that AFTER the rumbling there wouldn't at least be some people who would be fucking pissed and want revenge against Paradis? Come the fuck on. The rumbling makes the Holocaust look like nothing, of course people are going to be pissed and want revenge.
@@thegamingarchaeologist I can give you quotes to prove each and every one of my claims dude. You don’t have to like the explanations, but they are the correct explanations
@@SpectraPhantom Then by all means, go ahead. Provide these explanations. Although be warned, if these quotes come from chapter 139 I'm not going to take them seriously.
Paradis had enough population to match up 20% of outside world humanity? That means it was the most populated country of the world at the time despite all the deaths!!
@@SpectraPhantomi agree with all the points except #3 - i believe the line is "the outside world has the same level of civilization as paradis" (meaning military equipment etc), not "the same population"
Another problem with the sequel trilogy is that despite the filmmakers saying they wanted creative freedom and decanonizing the Expanded Universe, they kept ripping off ideas and story elements from the Expanded Universe. Just another reason the trilogy was just awful.
"2023 was for me what 2020 was for the rest of the world" was LITERALLY what I said in the tail end of last year. Had to include the disclaimer wbout AOT's ending too because it absolutely did not help but I can't, in good conscious, say it was worse than everything else that went on last year for me. So that was crazy to hear. Had me pointing at the screen like leonardo dicaprio 😂 well, harder than I already was due to the points being made. That said, watching this video felt like just a bit more catharsis in a sea of vids calling this ending a masterpiece, so I thank you for taking the time to say your peace and I really hope 2024 is treating you better 🙏
Its a lot better than the Manga ending but still has issues. Eren killing his mom feels like a twist for the sake of a twist. The idea is fine- but they don't give it the screentime needed to justify it. The whole Ymir/Mikasa thing is also a bit weird. There's nearly no romance in the series until the finale and its all... well Mikasa kissing a head and Ymir throwing the world under the bus for thousands of years over having stolkholm syndrome.
Loved the ending wholeheartedly.
However, totally agree with you. Couldve used an extra chapter for sure
I'm trying to see how a global genocide could ever NOT be "pointless and unnecessarily cruel" 😭
I didn't like the ending for many reasons but I like what it did to eren. He was just another kid traumatised by war and systenic racism that got access to too much power. I always thought that eren had never stopped being that kid who saved Mikasa (I don't see the ship either but it is what it is I guess), a kid who view his enemies as animals whod eserved to be killed. At 9yo he had a knife, at 19 he had the Founding Titan. Idk it made me love his character bc it sends a very strong message about war and systemic violence.
I get how many people who believed Eren knew what he was doing can be so utterly disappointed but in my case, it just confirmed the opinion I always had about him. I'm more sad about founder ymir, Historia's character assassination, the fact that we never saw how the hallucigenia died and the stupid moment of Connie and Jean (and other eldians with them) dying just to come back 1 minute later 😭💔 anyway, loved the video I really got to understand your perspective on the character
A character actions explained by him being crazy is incredibly lazy
Especially since there were lots of explanations that made more sense
As someone who's been watching this show for 10 years, I hate this ending too. I remember after the release of season 1, I was so hopeful of Armin, Mikasa and Eren eventually being able to explore the world. Yes probably with some good characters dead or gone, but after 10 years waiting it's disappointing I wont lie. And it wouldn't be out of the question to have a "good" ending. My reasoning is many of horror/drama anime HAVE bad endings, so for once to have this end on a good note would not be crazy. It just seems so rushed to be like "Oh yeah Eren sees into the future so he has to do everything and he's in everyone's minds and basically god at this point who is suicidal" What?
Not to mention why would Imir choose Mikasa of all people, this does not make sense. This rushed ending created so many plot holes. Too many plot twists JUST for the sake of having plot twists. I understand the original writer was trying to convey a message, humanity will repeat history no matter what you do, but if that is the message, why would Eren sacrifice himself and hurt his friends just for 50 years of peace that will inevitably be broken?
In my opinion, those who see this as a "good perfect flawless" ending are just people who tuned in 2 years ago to the show, and don't have a broad view.
It was always about Mikasa though if you look at the story. It was ALWAYS her..
@@BigPanda096 It is an inconsistency with already established lore. Ymir's character was built over centuries of history, deeply rooted in the lore of Eldia and the Titans. Introducing Mikasa, a character from a much later time period, as the inspiration for Ymir's actions, can feel like a retcon that disrupts the established timeline and mythology of the series.
Ymir Fritz is a foundational character in the series, and her decisions and motivations are crucial to the story. By attributing her actions and liberation to the influence of Mikasa, it potentially reduces Ymir's agency, making her seem less of a pivotal figure and more of a character who acts based on future events she couldn’t have foreseen or understood. "Attack on Titan" heavily explores themes of destiny versus free will. By linking Ymir's fate to Mikasa, the story risks undermining these themes, suggesting predestination over individual choice.
@@BigPanda096 If you were actually paying attention to the story, you would have noticed that the character with the most clear parallels with Ymir was Historia, and the parallels between Ymir and Mikasa came right the hell out of nowhere at the very end and actively contradicted what had been previously established. The Ymir and Mikasa stuff, while not as bad as Eren's character assassination, were still pretty damn bad, and some of the implications are pretty fucked up.
@@thegamingarchaeologist It's not about the parelella it's about the answer Mikasa would have given to the situation that was the opposite of what Ymir did. It was Mikasa not because they were the same, but because Mikasa was the only one who would have made the right decision on the end due to her character. She always protected Eren even from himself. She was the only one capable of providing the right answer to Ymir's plight... It had NOTHING to do with story parallels. Historia is a direct contrast to Ymir as well as a parallel so it's not like parallelism means the same even by your own standards.
@@PsychoBenches she's not the inspiration for her actions she's the inspiration to end them.... Why did everyone miss that? She was looking for someone who would give her the right answer to what she should have done, and that was ALWAYS going to be Mikasa.
It'd been cool if he started the Rumbling just to stop it. Like it's a weapon that no one should have, hence starting it to stop would have been pretty badass and wouldn't he look like a hero to all the plebs?
Basically that was Pixis' plan.
A couple of things - 1, Eren did intend to complete the rumbling. It was only after he gained the founder that he saw he’d only complete 80% because he knew he couldn’t kill his friends. I always interpreted his ending as a self delusional final moment to try and convince himself he did it for the right reasons - the Eren we see in season 4 is someone who can’t see grey, only black and white, until he’s forced to see the grey and refuses to look anyway.
The problem is that before the final chapter the story never implied that Eren actually saw how it would all end even after obtaining the founder. And also, no he absolutely did not have to kill his friends. All he would have had to do was tell Floch to destroy the plane before the alliance got to the harbor, and boom, their plan is dead in the water. Him not telling Floch to do that really only makes sense if he didn't know how things would end, and he genuinely wanted to find out and allow his friends the freedom to fight back. Him knowing how it would all end creates huge problems, because the Eren we thought we knew would never have just meekly accepted the future without at least trying to change it, and yet for some reasons that's exactly what he did. It's just bad writing, and all of the excuses people have come up with to try to defend the ending are just that, excuses, flimsy justifications to try to avoid the simpler explanation that the ending is just bad.
@@thegamingarchaeologist did he not say he tried to change it and every time it resulted in the same result? I thought that was the whole point of the deterministic timeline and the reason he laughed when Sasha died. I think saying that everyone who likes the ending is just making flimsy justifications is both intellectually dishonest and arrogant. If it was simple you wouldn’t have made a 20 minute about the topic, it would have been clear from the get go. Sure maybe it’s ineffective in places - I think you bring up a good point with Floch not being told to just destroy the plane, but I still think that would be limiting the alliances freedom in Eren’s mind. Writing the whole thing off as, “the sheep just don’t get it” is soooooo fucking lame dude
@@Darkbrandon69 I find it ironic that you're criticizing me for allegedly saying "the sheep just don't get it" when that's been the go to defense for people who claim the ending is actually good. Rather than actually addressing the problems and contradictions people point out, the defenders will just act like the ending makes perfect sense, no really, you just don't get it.
I'm open to other perspectives, but they have to be backed up with logical arguments and sound reasoning, and I have yet to see any of that from the people who try to claim that the ending is good. Instead all of their arguments just reek of motivated reasoning.
"I think you bring up a good point with Floch not being told to just destroy the plane, but I still think that would be limiting the alliances freedom in Eren’s mind."
But again, that comes back to the core issue that the ending actively contradicts what had been previously established. If Eren didn't know how it would all end, and he wanted to grant his friends freedom, him not contacting Floch makes sense. But since he knew how it would all end, and that he would fail to wipe out the world if he let things play out the way he had foreseen, then logically he should have taken steps to prevent his future failure, including stopping his friends before they could put their plans into motion. Him just doing nothing and letting things play out changes his entire character from a tragic figure to a passive and despicable doormat.
If Eren saw the end of the story when he unlocked the founder, THE STORY SHOULD HAVE TOLD US THAT. Or at the very least strongly hinted it. But it didn't. Instead it was content to let us think that his knowledge of the future remained exactly the same before and after unlocking the founding Titan, and waited until the very last minute to say PSYCH and blindside us with something else that completely contradicts what had been previously established. It's just objectively bad writing.
@@thegamingarchaeologist nuh uh
@@thegamingarchaeologist no for real though, obviously the ending has problems. I couldn’t agree more with the fact that Eren’s Mom thing being thrown in there was… weird. At best. And anytime a time loop gets introduced the writing can never last long it seems.
There are things I love about the ending. There are things I truly hate about the ending. Overall, it’s certainly one of the weaker arcs comparatively. I still think you’re giving Eren a little too much credit, which really hurts to type because he’s my favorite character still. I hate to quote the infamous idiot line, but he really is someone who has repeatedly attacked something head on without much after thought to the consequences - there are aspects of him that are beautiful and parts of him that are evil (theme lol). But he’s not intelligent… and it’s not a stretch to suggest he’d deluded himself to the point of not recognizing what he was doing because he was so tunnel visioned on saving the people he cares about most. He’s acting towards that purpose. “Moving forward” to what he knows is inevitable.
But yeah, the Ymir plot line in came out of left field after the geisha reveal.
Eren can control Dina in the past that means he can control every pure titan in the past. He could've saved so many lives and come up with a better solution. Paradis would've had 5 shifters in the first episode if Eren used his brain and change the past.
Dina's Royal colossal titan, Grisha would've had Attack and Founder, and 2 more pure titans would become the female and the armored titan
Time travel...😢
He couldn't. Attack on Titan has a deterministic timeline, eren had 0 power to change anything. All he could do was make sure things played out how the always had.
i disagree with your video, i liked the ending. Your reasons are bizarre and dumb. I dont care what your expectations where. In my case, my expectations where precisely what happened, he would become a scapegoat and make his friends the heros that stopped him. I foresaw he would pull off a lelouch. You didnt give one compelling reason. Plus that that was the point, he would be able to achieve pece for a time, but eventually conflict will rise again, there is no everlasting peace.
fr
How funny most of the comments are written by the people praising the ending just because they forgot the story
They're literal NPC responses. They all just use flowery language and head cannon to cover up shallow one-note storytelling and idiotic plot holes and contrivances without ever saying what's good about it only that it is.
@@TheDon266 Yeah, that's been extremely annoying but also telling. They insist that it's good, but they can't actually explain why it's good in a substantive way. I think deep down they know the ending is bad, or at least flawed, but they're in denial, and so come up with silly excuses because they want the ending to be good, and so pretend that it is, and we just "don't get it".
@@thegamingarchaeologistthis logic is a great way to validate your own bias & degrade the opinions of people who disagree with you
keep coping with your shit take
@Epsilonn I'm glad yall caught that.
I completely agree with you man. 💯
I have a huge disdain for Eren. I never liked him much through most of the show, but the farther in it boiled my blood just to watch the BS he did. This is not the outcome Commander Erwin fought for.
Eren's genocide was unjustifiable no matter what. So it made sense when he called himself an idiot, because he is.
Yes it was. It was led up to by the plot and the reasons were stated clear enough.
@@UppedOne not it's not. You are just selfish, immature and lack some braincells. I feel like you are a kid.
Then don't start the rumbling. Simple af
The genocide was the only thing saving his people and he said himself he saw all the possibilities for there to be another way but wasn’t so it’s dumb he left 20% alive because if u did that in real life they will get revenge, I mean look at Palestine towards Isreal doesn’t sound too peaceful to me 😂😂😂
Attack on Titan won the 2023 Hollywood Critics Awards for Best Streaming animated series. The first anime to win at Astra TV Awards
I mean the nominate were MHA and a bunch of nobodies so ofc it was going to win
So? It doesn't mean that the ending isn't terrible, it just means that, as a whole, AOT was still great, and apparently people thought it was better than its competitors. And considering what a sham a lot of award shows are I'm not going to trust them as an authority on anything.
@@MrMetaVal Hayao Miyazaki won a Golden Globe for best motion picture. I guess that award is a sham too
@@aniduk32.08 Awards are for entertainment anyway. It doesn't reward the best but the one who people like the most among the most popular.
ok but that doesn't mean it's immune to criticism lol.
Eren could see the future but not beyond his death unless there is a successor to the Attack Titan.
He knows 20% of the population would be left if the Alliance succeeded in stopping him. If he didn’t give his friends the choice, if the Alliance couldn’t stop him, if Mikasa let her feelings for Eren stop her from slicing his head off then he would have killed 100% of humanity. Eren said he couldn’t see if his friends would survive or not. My interpretation is Eren believes he is doing the genocide to ensure peace for Paradis forever and personally to crush the world that crushed his dreams of freedom. However he also knows killing everyone is extremely wrong. Can humanity really break the cycles of hate and violence that began since the dawn of time? Can a future he sees as destiny be changed? The only people he thought to be able to do so that are his comrades. So he gambled on them. Like Eren said, he would still have wanted to do the Rumbling if his friends weren’t there to stop him.
I'm confused. Where did you see/hear/read that Eren's intent was to annihilate 80% of the world specifically? Because from what I read, he only stated that as a fact: 'I trample 80% of the world,' not as a prediction but as a pure fact. The reasoning behind the 80% being the intervention of the allies stopping him before he could complete his original mission of annihilating the whole world. Also, regarding the allies, he may not have known that they could, but like you literally said, he was well aware they could stop him. In fact, he WANTED them to stop him. Conflict is inherent to human nature; that's what the end credits were literally about. Honestly, though, none of this matters. Eren says, both within the manga and anime, he was a simple-minded idiot who got too much power. That's it! Nothing else mattered; he saw a path that looked good, and he took it. Trying to look for some deep philosophical solution in a character we've known from the jump is impulsive and headstrong is a pointless endeavor. I can appreciate the effort that went into making this video, but you and people that think like you are just wrong.
And you clearly weren't paying attention, either to my video, or to the story as a whole. To claim that Eren never changed is an overly simplistic and reductive way of looking at it. It's true that in some ways he never changed. But in other ways he changed completely. He began the story as an angry naive boy who held a black and white view of the world. But when he actually was able to confront the man who had broken down the wall, he found he couldn't hate him, and in fact understood him. He knew that, had he been in Reiner's place, he likely would have broken down the wall too, and that he's about to do something far worse than what Reiner did. He's still going to do it, because he feels he has no other choice, but it's not something he does lightly, and he understands the gravity of what he's doing.
Or at least he did before the ending. But like I said, the ending was extremely confusing, and made Eren's motivations, which had previously been understandable, utterly nonsensical.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Eren we thought we knew would not have foreseen the alliance stopping him and done nothing to change his fate. With the power of the Founding Titan he could easily have stopped them before they reached the harbor on Paradis, either by contacting them through the paths and negotiating with and/or threatening them, or just by telling Floch to blow up the plane before the could arrive, and boom, they can't get to him, he doesn't have to fight them, and his plan doesn't fail.
In well written stories, characters don't see a future failure and just meekly accept it, they try to change it. And even if they ultimately fail, in well written stories it is shown how their efforts to avoid their fate actually caused their fate.
Why didn't Eren try to avoid the future where he failed? "Fuck You, that's why" is effectively the only answer the story provides, because no explanation is offered for why Eren couldn't change the future, nor is any explanation offered for why he didn't even try to. Defenders of the ending just want us to mindlessly accept what the ending did without any thought or critical analysis, but I'm not going to do that.
Do you think I WANT to hate the ending? Of course not, I wanted it to be good. But the stone cold fact is that it isn't, and even people who like it usually admit that it is flawed, which is undeniable.
Again, before the final volume I was a diehard AOT fan. I thought the story was genius, and I thought everything made sense. After the final volume though I'm just left utterly confused and disappointed. And the many attempts people have made to make sense of the ending have only solidified my conviction that the ending is in fact dogshit.
Eren went from wanting to kill Reiner in the most painful way imaginable to gaining an understanding of why Reiner did what he did, including killing his mother. He understood that Reiner was naive and genuinely wanted to save the world.
Eren was even sympathetic towards Reiner, because he knew that Reiner's life meant nothing to those who were exploiting him, which in roughly 13 years culminated in Reiner becoming a literal human sacrifice in an insanely barbaric ritual.
Of course he was the same simple minded idiot the entire time.
Armin would hold Eren's hand and smile at him when Eren kills his own mother but Armin would punch Eren for hurting Mikasa's feelings? I can't take Armin's character seriously anymore. Armin wanted to have a chance to talk to Eren for so long and convince him to not do the rumbling but when he finally does get the chance, he is talking about love and Mikasa finding a better man and making a stupid weird face while Eren is actively murdering millions.
Armin must be asking logical and important questions to Eren.
Those who use violence are not intelligent according to Armin
This kind of ending might work for Erectile Dysfunctions but not for me. This is just my opinion. No need to get offended
ARMIN IS A TRASH CHARACTER
FR
related: how Mikasa gonna look like a man but Armin still looks like a Femboy...
To be fair the other nation's forces were in shambles, Paradise could have immediately just took over whatever was left
It would honestly be so much smarter and isayama would make a lot of monney if he rewrote the ending he should learn from his mistakes and learn what other good stories or animes did right in their ending. He should learn more about romances he should try to go for something that will make a big majority of the fans happy that he will be happy with as well
I love when nobodies think they can write a better ending than the original creative genius
@@Falroth i never said that i said he could learn from his mistakes i could never even come close to isayama when it comes to his story telling i just said he could just learn from what he did wrong with the ending
Very good and balanced analysis
So many oddities drove me insane. Is it Mikasa and Jean in end? I feel like the closure parts for all the characters should have happened good or bad....and it was just skipped over. No idea why it went away from people vs Titans, to People vs People Creating Titans in sick form of torture which sure I was all on board with destroy them and free the people. Then it became a free for all gong show for no reason. Could have been clear going "I had to do the rumbling in order to end the curse of the titans on humanity and to free Ymir and everyone from a future of war and torture"
Hell they could have had him and Mikasa live a "full life" in the infinite time they had where they are sitting at the cabin, telling her his feelings etc Futurama did it! That's literally all everyone wanted was closure for all our characters that survived, rushed endings are awful.
Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust had a great ending, Assassination classroom nailed it...and I went along for the ride on this one to go I HATE YOU and the manga wasn't much better
F this ending angered me
Honestly tho for Paradis’ security, there’s not much of a diff if he were to destroy all or just 80% of the world. This means he didn’t kill everyone and that there was still hope and peace for the remaining nations, but since now titans had been eradicated from the earth and all the nations were reduced to the same level of civilization and power, so they would have to work together to prosper. Eren did this to ensure a time of peace and freedom for those he loved most, though he never got to attain that himself. This peace was what he had been fighting for the whole time. He knew it would be temporary, he literally said that he could never end human conflict, and that war will inevitably ensue after some time, but his loved ones and their generations after could freedom without destroying the whole world. Perhaps this is a plot hole, but I wish Eren could have just *asked* Ymir to take their Titan powers from the Earth, but maybe it was her unending slavery/love to king Fritz that would not allow her, therefore, a part of Eren and his friends was to free her and their people of Titans. Ugh, anyway, I really think this was just all to say that human conflict can never end despite our best efforts, but that doesn’t mean fighting for our loved ones and for freedom while we can is meaningless either, rather, it may be the reason we are here.
"Honestly tho for Paradis’ security, there’s not much of a diff if he were to destroy all or just 80% of the world."
Uh, bullshit, there's a big fucking difference.
If he destroys all of the world, then there's nobody left to take revenge. But if 20% is left, that's a lot of people who will be terrified and pissed off by the rumbling, and will eventually retaliate against Paradis.
He had the chance to end the feud between Eldia and the world for good, but instead he stopped short, ensuring that the cycle continues, which is insanely shortsighted and stupid. If he only cared about guaranteeing his friends a long and happy life, and didn't care what happened to Paradis in the long term, then he should have just used the rumbling to destroy all of the military bases and ports in the world. His actions make no sense. He should either have used the rumbling minimally, or he should have gone the whole way. Anything in between is stupid and psychotic.
@@thegamingarchaeologist "instead he stopped short, ensuring that the cycle continues"
Because reality is harsh. As humans, conflict has always been in, and always will be, in our nature. The story is about the cycle of violence by said shortsightedness and how it has always been perpetuated throughout history. Now about Eren's conclusion. Eren had an inner conflict of interest. Eren wants to finish the Rumbling to protect Paradis Island by using the Wall Titans while they're still an actual threat, but needs Mikasa to kill him herself so that Ymir can finally let go of her own love so that she can be free. Eren wants ultimate freedom in a completely empty world, but still feels guilty about all the murder and WANTS to be stopped. He wants to make sure his friends will be safe, but doesn't want to take their freedom away. These contradictions led to his compromise, to rumble 80% of humanity & let his friends stop him so that they're seen as the island devils that saved the world from the Rumbling. This is the result that Eren saw that achieved the most.
@@grassguy1154 "but needs Mikasa to kill him herself so that Ymir can finally let go of her own love so that she can be free"
And that was a completely random and arbitrary plot development that came right the hell out of nowhere at the last minute, so forgive me if I don't take it seriously.
"Eren wants ultimate freedom in a completely empty world, but still feels guilty about all the murder and WANTS to be stopped"
And again, this only makes sense if he saw some but not all of the future. Like I said, his future memories probably led him to assume that he would end up destroying the whole world with the rumbling, and so the alliance forming was a genuine surprise to him, and his decision to allow them to fight due to the guilt he felt made sense. But none of that works if he actually knew how it was going to end before it even began.
As I said, if he actually knew how it would end, the Eren we thought we knew would have tried to alter it. He should either have restrained himself and only rumbled all the military bases in the world, or he should have gone all the way, and taken steps to stop the alliance's plans so that they didn't get very far and he wouldn't have to kill or be killed by his friends. Him just meekly accepting the 80% outcome without even attempting to change it just makes him a passive doormat of a character, and that goes against everything Eren was supposed to be about.
If he feels guilty about murdering so many people, THEN HE SHOULDN'T MURDER SO MANY PEOPLE. If he wants to guarantee Paradis's survival, THEN HE SHOULD GUARANTEE PARADIS'S SURVIVAL. The 80% result is the worst of both worlds, because an obscene amount of people died, yet there's still enough left that Paradis is still in danger. Seriously, this ending just makes Eren look like a shortsighted idiot who doesn't understand the consequences of his actions.
@@thegamingarchaeologist “And that was a completely random and arbitrary plot development that came right the hell out of nowhere at the last minute, so forgive me if I don't take it seriously.”
Sure, whatever, go ahead and dismiss the girl who’s literally fueled the 2000 years of suffering.
“It makes Eren look like an idiot”
Eren literally admitted to being an idiot, you’re right on that. He knows and admits that he’s motivated by passion instead of actual logic. He was never free. He knew that humanity was the thing that stood in the way of his freedom, not the walls. And he couldn’t stand it.
“THEN HE SHOILDN’T MURDER SO MANY PEOPLE”
You say this presuming that the world of Attack On Titan is one worth preserving. Marley is an expansionist colonial empire & world’s foremost superpower. They are militarist chauvinists who oppresse their minorities, mainland Eldians in particular. Tell me, is this a world worth preserving? If Eren went ahead with the limited Rumbling, then they would just rebuild and bide their time, and then destroy Paradis Island, which is why Eren is so passionate in completing the Rumbling. Eren full heartedly does this whilst knowing it’s morally wrong, making him a half-assed hero, but he didn’t have a choice.
“This isn’t the Eren we thought we knew”
Eren literally brutally mutilated two low level thugs AS A CHILD. How is this not in his character? The cold, calculating 4D chess playing genius was simply a facade he put on to distance his friends, he even said it with his conversation with Armin in the Paths. On the inside, Eren was the same angry, violent, young man that he always was.
“This only works if he didn’t see all of the future”
He didn’t. It was only when he got the Founder Titan that he saw the full picture. AOT’s timeline is linear and fixed. Everything that will happen already has, Eren simply can’t do anything about that. What Eren CAN do is traverse it and share memories. There are no multiple timelines, nor is there an original timeline. It’s like the Prisoner of Azkaban. Eren influences events to happen as they already did, there isn’t a timeline in which he DOESN’T influence events. Zeke literally said that the past just can’t change. The timeline is locked, even if influenced from outside of it, creating the deterministic universe AOT is set in. No one is truly free, especially Eren.
@@grassguy1154
"Sure, whatever, go ahead and dismiss the girl who’s literally fueled the 2000 years of suffering."
I'm not dismissing her, I'm dismissing the bizarre and stupid connection between her and Mikasa that the story pulled out of its ass at the last minute.
"Marley is an expansionist colonial empire & world’s foremost superpower. They are militarist chauvinists who oppresse their minorities, mainland Eldians in particular. Tell me, is this a world worth preserving?"
I could easily make a similar description of the USA, or China, or really any of the major global powers in the real world. Every nation has its flaws and crimes. But would that justify slaughtering hundreds of millions of civilians? No of course it wouldn't, that would be insane. Most people are just trying to live their lives, and have a whole spectrum of opinions on their government's behavior, ranging from open approval to full condemnation, and everything in between. Ignoring the nuances of the real world is just childish and wrongheaded.
But you've raised a good point, Eren had every reason to want to complete the rumbling. Which raises the question why didn't he?
This comes back, again, to the fundamental issue that the ending actively contradicts what had been previously established. Before the ending, the story indicated that Eren only saw part of the future, not all of it, and so didn't actually know how it would all end. In light of that, all of his actions and motivations made perfect sense, and the timeline is locked in a neat and tidy loop.
But then the ending changed it so that Eren did know everything, including how it would all end. This changes everything, and makes it so that Eren's actions and motivations make no sense. Eren has always been defined as the guy who strives for freedom. He wants to complete the rumbling to guarantee freedom for his people and his friends. He then apparently sees a future where his plan fails and his friends kill him, and some of the world survives the rumbling, which will doom Paradis in the long run.
Now, based on what we know of Eren's character, the logical thing for him to do would be to take steps to prevent this future failure. But he doesn't, and instead just lets it all play out without appearing to even try to change it.
Why?
The story never provides a good answer to that question, it just expects you to accept it despite it making no fucking sense. If Eren couldn't change the outcome, the story should still have shown him trying to, and then explained why he couldn't. But it doesn't. Instead it just makes Eren look like a pathetic doormat of a character, and retroactively makes his entire journey feel empty and pointless.
I don't think Eren PLANED for the 80% to die... He was going to kill everyone but the Aliance stopped him. He said, "80% is what YOU MANAGE to save" not... "I planed to kill 80%"
Isamaya wrote Eren as the worst of himself... that includes irrationality and impulsiveness.
Eren absolutely DID want to do it at the point of kissing Historia's hand. But now that he saw it unfold, the guilt seeped in, with the curse of knowledge keeping him a slave to that fate.
BTW Last Jedi is the best Star Wars Movie :D
i disagree with you but hollow knight music goes hard
Indeed. Hollow Knight is great, and I am looking forward to Silksong, though I'm fine with them taking all the time they need.
"why didn't he just..." he tried. He says that he tried countless times and no matter what his memories always go the way he saw them. That's represented by him helping Ramsy when he's being beaten by the marleyans, Eren himself is not compelled to save him because he knows that it's a useless endeavor, he kills this kid anyway so why save him? Because he's forced to, he is a slave to the founder just like Ymir is, and the founder is a slave to time. This whole video just comes from a misunderstanding of how aot uses time. Time in aot is a single line, whatever happens will happen and cannot be changed. Hence why Eren has the ability to change the past with the founder and attack titans abilities. Because he has those powers in the future that means he will always get those powers no matter what. There is no reality where Zeke dies before the rumbling, or his dad dying before passing the attack titan onto Eren, or his dad not taking the founder, because the founder has orchestrated the past, present, and future. And notice I said founder and not Eren, because since the story repeats itself there is no guarantee that Eren is even in complete control of his actions. The point of aot is to point out repetitious violence and have you reflect on humanities inability to progress beyond violence. It takes a very pessimistic approach though and tells the audience that this will continue regardless of influence.
TLDR:
The founder is literally god. Ymir and Eren are just vessels for the founder and aren't the founder themselves, therefore have no true agency or free will, they are slaves. Eren cannot act outside of his character motivations because his motivations have never been his own. The future was set in stone long before any of the characters we know were born into this fictional world. The seed of hatred and violence has always had root in humanity.
Yeah, no
We never see him try to change a vision he had
"The author doesn't what the f*ck he is doing" "F*ck Isayama" man you talking about Isayama. Whatever you think of the ending gives you no right to talk like that about the anime's author. Like you wrote a best selling or smth
The curse was unnecessary but your logic is flawed do we need all to be bakers to know how to recognise a good bread?
Btw twilight is a beat seller too
@@1chibanKasuga funnily enough I agree with your overall argument... I dont need to be a chef to know your casserole tastes awful.
But still, the writing decisions that these nobodies are offering as substitutes are... woeful at best 😂😂
Honestly, get rid of the Time travel aspect, I did not think it pulled it off well, and ruins most stories if it was not based off of Time travel to begin with. Eren should be shown to be radicalized and not "UwU I am an idiot" but acturally explain his radicalized thoughts. Something like "It's us or them, and I choose us" (this could be Written better but you get the idea) and get rid of Eren x mikasa, not every story needs a love interest, and they felt like to much family for this to work, neither was there much romantic chemistry.
They should also show how, genocide, you know, bad? While it was trying to show how the "US vs them" is narrative wrong, it is still to easy for somone to say "sure, but it was the only way for Eldia to survive!" And the anime did not say enough to acturally go against this narrative.
It still had a semi happy ending. Sure, Eldia was nuked in the end, but that was hundreds of years in the future, , long after his friends and everyone he knows are were happy and now dead.
I liked the essence of it, the story in my head makes sense, but it was executed in such a froreign (literally,) pseudo and melodrama way, that i cringed. i actually liked everything until the second half of the final chapter 2 with the Eren sympathy.
If eren was gonna be mr edge-lord psycho, i'd have hoped they'd have gone all in and made him irredeemable. Or reveal in a twist, that he as a shifter, was actually HIMSELF, controlled by the basal instincts or will of ymir, and her desperation for freedom or revenge after convincing her in the paths, or all along.... a narrative or drive which spanned all the paths and fed his rage, since he holds the founder/attack (attack being Ymir's singular will to fight back indiscriminately),...esp considering human eren actually wanted to be stopped an all.
i dont like that he had a choice/conscience and STILL started the rumbling, who does that, thats dumb, and it makes him look like a crybaby for feeling bad. ...By the end of it i felt like i was watching a 'the power of friendship' story, which is cool an all, but with the gravitas and seriousness of the topic its handling, the writers have a responsibility, to not be irresponsable. It felt like they threw the story of humanity to the side, just caring about erens circle of friends, or even just mikasa, and giving THEM closure.
Pardon me while I try not to retch at the awful writing in Attack on Titan. Yet another series kills my interest by adding in prophecies and destiny and fate.
I am SO glad I checked out of Attack on Titan's BULLSHIT around season one, where Eren was in front of the firing squad. It's so stupid.
Just... this is such a dumb series. The only reason it's popular is because it's edgey in a time when most series weren't edgey like that.
Also, the only explanation I can see is that it might be that Eren WANTED to guarantee Paradus gets destroyed to kill the titan powers.
Although I find your opinion awful... 😂
I am genuine in that I would like to know what you consider a well written story... might make for an interesting discussion.
this is so wrong on every damn level! Luke was NOT going to kill his nephew, and Eren was NOT in control of his fate no matter how far he reached.
Luke often sensed darkness in Ben and decided to go check it out, and the only logical reason to only check at night would be because Ben would be reluctant to share about it. When Luke searched, he saw the past actions that Snoke made him do and Ben willingly doing them, and it sparked a vision of the future that Kylo Ren would destroy EVERYTHING Luke worked to build and out of panic, he pulled his lightsaber out to finish off the threat without thinking it through. He then immediately stopped to think "what the hell am I doing!?" and *stood in shame that such an idea even came to his mind*. his biggest regret was that he couldn't stop Ben from turning to the dark side despite Leia trusting him to look after her son and he blamed the Jedi order because he followed their path and saw his own apprentice as a threat rather than as his nephew. Ben woke up *assuming* Luke was going to kill him for the power he amassed and retaliated, believing it was self-defense, without giving him the chance to clear the misunderstanding. That same scene was explained 3 times in the same movie.
Eren did anticipate his friends forming an alliance to stop him, but did you seriously think he'd just go "ok, 80% completed, time to wrap it up"? Of course not! He'd keep going all the way and that they'll stop him by the time he gets it down to 20% leftover and he's aware of it the whole while as time no longer means anything in that state to him. and don't even act like he didn't try to find a way out of it, he was practically begging Hange for a solution (does anyone even remember that?). It was Mikasa's choice he was looking for the entire time before deciding. His death was inevitable, the last 4 years or the enemy of the world, and all he could ever do was
IT WAS ALSO STATED THAT THE LEFTOVER POPULATION OF THE WORLD NOW BALANCES THE POPULATION OF PARADIS, SO ANY RETALIATION AGAINST THE ISLAND WAS SEVERAL DECADES AWAY AS SHOWN BY THE EPILOGUE, so Eren's friends get to live out their long lives of peace, which is all he wanted for them, which even they realized when Jean stated that Eren's friends and Paradis island are the only ones to gain anything from the rumbling happening at all; as well as his friends killing him meaning *there was no power of the titans left for the world to fear* as well as the jaegerists arming themselves to defend against any threatening force in opposition for as long as anyone is even alive to remember that incident till they move on to the next thing to start a war over, which was the main aspect of humanity shown in the story, the unending urge to start conflict and looking for excuses to do so
18:29 how immature do you have to be to not like that part?
Long story short, try paying some attention. For both, movies and television
Yeah, I've heard that defense for what Luke did before. And it might hold water if Luke had immediately done everything in his power to fix his mistake and redeem his nephew in the same way he redeemed his father. But instead Luke spent the rest of his life hiding on an island like a pathetic coward and doing jack shit to stop Kylo or the first order. So even if his actions in that one moment were justifiable (which is debatable) his actions afterwards are not. The end result is the same, Luke's character was regressed if not straight up altered, and it's disappointing.
And once again you're willfully ignoring the key fact that the ending to Attack on Titan actively contradicts things that had been previously established. Sure, it's possible to come up with explanations to explain away the discrepancies, but that doesn't make them good explanations.
If Eren knew ahead of time that he would only kill 80% of the world before his friends stopped him, then he should have either taken steps to prevent his friends from interfering so that he could complete the rumbling, or he should have just used the rumbling to destroy all the military bases in the world and not slaughtered hundreds of millions of civilians. Either go all the way, and thus end the cycle of hatred for good, or just do the bare minimum to buy Paradis time. Anything in between is fucking psychotic and stupid.
It genuinely makes no sense for Eren to just meekly accept that he'll destroy 80% and not even try to alter the outcome. Why didn't he try? And remember, according to you people Eren didn't know about the 80% thing until after he unlocked the Founding Titan, so we never saw him even trying to alter the future after that point. So again, why didn't he? The only explanation the story offers is "because I said so", which is just bad and lazy writing, and pisses all over Eren's character.
And sure, Eren claims that the outside world's population balances out with Paradis, but do you really expect me to take his word for it when so many of the things he said in the final chapter were wrong or dumb? Like I said, if we assume that the world of AOT and our world are roughly equivalent, based on what was shown the population of the world in AOT before the rumbling was around one billion, possibly more, which means that the 20% left would be at least 200 million, while Paradis only has 1 million people. So no, the two don't balance out. Hell, even if we cut the number in half it still doesn't help.
I actually did like parts of the conversation between Armin and Zeke. There were some good moments and good ideas in the ending, but it doesn't make up for all of the bad and bizarre shit.
I was paying attention. That's why I hate the ending. Look, I wanted to like the ending. I was fully invested in the story, and followed it devotedly for years. But the final three chapters were so terrible that they shattered my immersion and made me painfully aware of the hand of the author, because it was clear that he didn't know what the hell he was doing.
When you say pay attention, it sounds like you're saying that we should just turn our brains off and mindlessly accept whatever we're handed like good little sheep. Don't actually think, don't question if something makes sense, just mindlessly consume. Well sorry, but I'm not going to do that.
@@thegamingarchaeologist Episode 8 explained altogether quite a lot that’s pretty difficult to miss out. After failing the exact same way that the Jedi order of the past had failed, Luke was convinced that the Jedi are bound for failure and the galaxy doesn’t need them anymore to be the source of light and that they should be able to act on their own otherwise the cycle of death and destruction will keep repeating and just like how he failed the same way his predecessors did, the successors will fail too, so he tried to bring everything to end by becoming the last Jedi ever. He didn’t exile himself because he feared something, he was following his own assigned mission which obviously was wrong. Yoda gave him the final lesson that he doesn’t need to be what his predecessors were, he can learn from their mistakes and perfect himself from it and he then realized that the Jedi are meant to be the literal embodiment of hope and that’s exactly what he became for the resistance at their time of need and passed on the legacy to the next generation of Jedi.
Eren has been trying to alter the future from the moment he touched Historia's hand. Every timeline aspect of him in existence chronologically after that moment has been trying the entirety of the time over failed timelines where nothing at all changes, even if that was just given in some exposition dump, don't act like they could never come up with anything to explain themselves. "He said the population balances out, but do you expect me to take his word for it?" yes...yes I do. It's a fictional world for that exact reason, where Paradis population can grow how much ever it wants right since the freaking retaking of Wall Maria to even after the rumbling started, and the rest of the world could inherently have a smaller population enough to balance it out, when it wasn't even Eren that claimed that the population now balances out, and buying Paradis enough time is literally the one thing that Eren actually accomplished, which I'm sure I stated when I said that "SO ANY RETALIATION AGAINST THE ISLAND WAS SEVERAL DECADES AWAY AS SHOWN BY THE EPILOGUE, so Eren's friends get to live out their long lives of peace, which is all he wanted for them" and "*there was no power of the titans left for the world to fear*" which is what made them targets in the first place.
You couldn't even pay attention to the comment held up against you as an argument, quit pretending like you paid attention to details of the series the entire way. "If something makes sense, you don't just consume" then what's even the point of it making sense? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@fawazfaruqui5198 You're deliberately ignoring most of what I said. I pointed out why I don't think the ending makes sense, and instead of actually explaining why I'm wrong, you're just insisting that it does make sense and repeating what you said before. Empty assertions and motivated reasoning is all you have. If you're trying to change my mind, you've utterly failed to do so. Maybe actually try addressing my points instead of dismissing them out of hand.
@@thegamingarchaeologist literally just read through what I've actually written first 🤦♂🤦♂
Everything you just said was wrong.
Luke literally admitted that his first choice was to kill Kylo at that split second, but then regretted it right after. But it was already too late because kylo saw him.
Eren was never a slave to freedom. He literally contradicts himself multiple times when he’s talking with armin in the path.
He says he had no control over the rumbling it was the founder.
He says he had no idea why he wanted to do the rumbling.
He says he wanted to do it just because.
He says so many contradictory statements it’s amazing to me that people don’t pick up on that.
You clearly haven’t paid attention to the story of attack on titan at all.
Glad to see another Ending Hater, brother.
The dick rider's in these comments justifying how their time wasn't wasted is some funny copium 😂
I got sick of the edgey nihilism around when Eren faced the firing squad.
The show isn't as good as people claim it is, in my opinion.
I love the part when you crying about how Eren doesn't know what he's doing, and 80% this 20% that, not gonna solve the problem, delaying conflict bla-bla-bla.... Yet Paradis was untouched for thousands of years after even despite the disappearance of the Titans and technologically advanced rapidly, until a point when finally it got destroyed (assumably due to a completely separate reason). After all, Eren won. His friends had a long happy life, and Paradis survived.
You manbun incel failed to protect Paradis turned into a stupid bird so Jean can plow Mikasa! Lmfao
His friends all lived happy life’s ? like Floch ? Hange ? And forcing Mikasa to live a life without him making her life way worse. He only had to kill his actual mother, father and his step mother and step brother so only SOME of his friends can live, yea so Eren got exactly everything he wanted
Eren killing hundreds of millions of people in order to guarantee the survival of his people made sense. Eren killing hundreds of millions of people for literally any other reason is fucking stupid and utterly psychotic. Also, given how full of plot holes the rest of the ending is, do you really expect me to believe that Paradis would have been left untouched for thousands of years? Especially when that same sequence in the manga indicated that Paradis survived, at most, a generation or two after Eren died before they were wiped out. I guess they changed it for the anime so that it looked like Paradis survived for longer, but like most of the changes the final episode made it's a bandaid solution that doesn't actually fix the problem.
@@thegamingarchaeologistI don’t know what you expected from eren
He has been constantly telling that if other take his freedom he will take their freedom first
It’s not whatever reason he did the rumbling
It’s because he wanted to make world like what was in armin’s book
His own twisted version of freedom
@@hyperknight7284 Floch was never his friend. He disliked him from the get-go and used him as a pawn. Hange was also not his friend. He killed his mother, and the rest of them unwillingly. Everyone else lived a happy long life. Which is still better than run away and Eldia gets clusterfucked the next year and everyone dies. Stop projecting.
I agree. Eren's character was ruined just like Daenerys' character in Game of Thrones. The motivation is not clear, the actions are not justified. Yes, Eren is shown to be radical many times throughout the story, which gave clues that he would do something horrible at the end. But the way his actions were explained at the end is completely out of character.
Also. Poor Mikasa. Girlfriend didn't deserve all that crap. She's the only one I really feel sorry for in this whole story.
Mikasa ❤
It was literally explained in the final chapter.
I will never understand how you compare it to Daenarys... no offense but this seems like a poor understanding on your part to how a character has been developed throughout the entire show
The ending makes Eren more compelling. It shows that absolute power corrupts. When leaders have no checks and balances they often make horrific mistakes. Imagine how hard it would be to make a good decision when you can't tell between the past, present, and future. When choices got hard he would just resort to killing, that's what he did with the rumbling. Eren didn't just kill 100% of the outside world is because he would of had to kill all of his friends to do it. Even if he did that peace on the island would only be temporary. They would just end up fighting each other like in season 3. Eren's plan was not perfect is because he's human. The whole point of the show is to show the flaws in humanity. There has never been a point of time in human history without war. Evening out the populations it gave his friends just enough time to enjoy some peace. In the end we are human and we will always end up killing one each other. Isayama wouldn't be doing the world justice by giving it an happy ending. In reality, our world is just as cruel as theirs. Eren had the power of a God but in the he made horrible choices because he's human
"The ending makes Eren more compelling."
Hard disagree.
"Eren didn't just kill 100% of the outside world is because he would of had to kill all of his friends to do it."
No he wouldn't have. As you yourself said, he had the power of a God. He could have contacted the alliance when they were talking around the campfire and convinced/threatened them into not opposing him so that he wouldn't have to fight them and kill them. He could have offered to use his powers to spare the families of the Warriors and give them sanctuary on the island in order to blackmail them into not fighting him, which would definitely have worked on Annie, and likely would have worked on the others too. He could have told Floch through the paths to destroy the plane, and that would have doomed their plans right from the start. But he never does any of that, which makes no sense if he genuinely knew how it would all end. The rumbling is the sort of thing that you should either do 100% or 0%. Anything in the middle is just stupid and psychotic, and the fact that he didn't take steps to guarantee either 100% or 0% but instead just meekly followed what he had foreseen is bad and lazy writing that pisses all over his character and renders his motivations utterly nonsensical.
"Even if he did that peace on the island would only be temporary."
True. But the peace would have lasted a hell of a lot longer if there were no external threats, and at the very least the long feud between Eldia and Marley would have been definitively ended for good.
"Eren's plan was not perfect is because he's human."
There's a big difference between a plan not being perfect, and a plan being fucking stupid.
"Isayama wouldn't be doing the world justice by giving it an happy ending."
Jesus Christ would you people please get it through your thick fucking skulls that WE WEREN'T EXPECTING A HAPPY ENDING. Anyone who was paying attention could clearly tell that AOT would not have a happy ending, and in fact many people were expecting the ending to be even darker than it was. The reason we hate the ending is because it was badly written. It is possible to have an ending be dark but still be well written, but for whatever reason AOT just couldn't manage it. We hate the ending because it was badly written, not because it was dark, so please stop pretending that we hate it because we didn't get a happy ending. It's not true, and it just makes you look like a sniveling liar who has to tackle a strawman instead of actually addressing the real problems we have with the ending.
@@thegamingarchaeologist Why do people kill others by drinking and driving when they could of just called an uber? In most cases it's because their judgment is impaired. Now imagine trying to make a decision while not being able to tell if you're in the past, present, or future. There is a lot he could of did better but his absolute power over everything impaired his judgement. It's like what Levi told him in season 1 " Whether you trust in your own strength... or trust in the choices made by reliable comrades." He could of prevented all of the death if just trusted his comrades. He did try to change the outcomes on his own but never succeeded. So he just accepted his fate and let things play out. Eren did what any human does when they get unstoppable power. They fuck up
@@Jim-in9oc "Now imagine trying to make a decision while not being able to tell if you're in the past, present, or future."
Before the final chapter there was precisely zero indication that Eren had trouble telling the past, present, and future apart, so we just loop right back around to the problem that the ending actively contradicts what had been previously established, which is just bad writing.
"There is a lot he could of did better but his absolute power over everything impaired his judgement."
His absolute power impaired his judgment...how do you not see how full of shit that defense is? The reason why being drunk impairs your judgment is because you have LESS power and LESS cognition than normal. But if you have MORE power and MORE awareness then your actions should make MORE sense, not LESS. For fuck's sake, in the coordinate time doesn't pass like it does in the real world, so he literally had all the time in the world to come up with a better plan. And yet we're just expected to believe that he had no choice but to fuck up? Give me a break.
Weak excuses is all you ending defenders have to try to squirm around the simple truth that Isayama fucked up and the ending was badly written. Just accept Occam's razor.
@@thegamingarchaeologist If you look at any world leader in history with absolute power they always mess up. Hitler with Operation Barbarossa, Kim Jong Un with North Korea, Mao Zedong killing over 50 million with bad policy. Absolute power can definitely impair your judgment. Kim Jong Un as all day and all the power to make North Korea better so why doesn't he? Eren fits this narrative perfectly
@@thegamingarchaeologist Overall you made a lot of good points, but you either missed or intentionally neglected to mention a few things. For instance, Eren says that the truth is he's just someone who got his hands on power and he would've killed everyone if his friends hadn't stopped him. The other plan to make his friends heroes was just a cover up of his true intentions.
Also even if his plan was originally to make his friends heroes he never intended that plan to save everyone on Paradis just his friends. Armin says you planned to make us like the Tyburs which is a plan that would've worked, and on multiple occasions says he just wants his friends to live long and happy lives.
Anyway the ending definitely has its flaws for instance the scene when he reveals that he loves Mikasa is super cringy and could've been handled better. I think him actually loving her could've still worked. Despite all of that I don't think the ending is as bad as you think. I'm curious what other issues you had with the ending that weren't mentioned in this video if you don't mind mentioning them to me.
I'm only looking for a good conversation so let's be civilized about this. It seemed like your anger got the better of you when reading some of your other comments.
Season 3 was peak, it all fell apart in season 4
Season 4 was best season
@@Falroth nah
@@sanyogitanegi3881 agree to disagree. But wow. We can never be friends though
@@Falroth sure
@@sanyogitanegi3881 lol. I do like your attitude
Baddd take, eren didnt want to wipe out 80%, thats all he was able to do and he foresaw that, if he was able to kill everyone he would have, but his timeline is predetermined and he cant change that. You sound like an immature child , if you want serious answers watch " this video will change how you see eren " by Invaderzzz. The only thing i can hate or dislike about the ending is the founding titan being able to see future present past at the same time because that concept creates the time loop which is difficult to understand and probably shouldve been handled better. Writing this comment and just heard you say the writer is terrible is hillarious, you are so simpleminded
Yo thanks for saying the thing about him seeing what happens like the guy who made this video needs to realize Eren did wanna kill everyone but he saw that he didn’t so that’s why he said that like how is he so mad when he has it wrong
Not only have you failed to refute my point, but you’ve inadvertently reinforced it.
So, Eren wanted to kill the entire world, but he foresaw that he would only be able to kill 80%. This means that he knew ahead of time that he would fail. Which brings me back to the question: why did he go through with it if he knew it wasn’t going to work?
To go back to the Terminator films, in both films the characters were aware of a bad future that was coming. But they didn't just passively sit around and accept it, they actively tried to prevent the bad future from happening. Hell, if I saw the future and saw that a plan I was working on wasn't going to work, you can bet your ass that I would change my plan. And yet we're supposed to believe that Eren, the character defined as the guy who strives for freedom no matter what, isn't going to at least try to change the future?
And it gets even worse when we factor in that in the Terminator films, the characters had to actually go out and do something in order to stop the bad future. But in AOT Eren just had to NOT do something in order to stop the bad future. The rumbling was only really justifiable if he completed it, and thus ended the cycle of hatred for good, which in the long run would make all of those innocent deaths worth it. But he already knew that he wouldn't be able to complete it, which would make all of those innocent deaths unnecessary and pointlessly cruel given that the cycle of hatred would continue. So why didn't he just choose to NOT do it?
Saying "It's predetermined" is just a lazy bullshit excuse, because it is entirely possible to have things be predetermined while still giving the characters agency. In the first Terminator film, Skynet sent a Terminator back in time in order to prevent John Connor from being born, and Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese tried to destroy Skynet before it could be created. But in an elegant twist of irony, Skynet's actions inadvertently caused John Connor to be born, and Sarah and Kyle's actions inadvertently caused Skynet to be created. It was a great example of how people can meet their fate on the road they take to try to avoid it.
But with Eren, there is no clever story telling or explanation, Eren just completely abandons his characterization of striving for freedom no matter what and just meekly accepts that the future can't be changed, so he isn't even going to try. Why? Fuck you, that's why, is what the story effectively ends up saying.
All of this could have been fixed if they just kept it so that Eren knew some but not all of the future, and that he did not know how it was all going to turn out. Giving him omniscience just destroys his character by making him a passive doormat. And again, it actively contradicts things that were previously established. Why would the story repeatedly heavily imply that Eren only saw some of the future, only to reveal at the end that he actually knew everything the whole time? It's not a clever twist, it's a straight up retcon that assassinates Eren's character and retroactively makes the entire story feel cheap and pointless.
And I find it ironic that you call me simpleminded when you're the one who is just blindly swallowing the ending and coming up with weak excuses to defend it. No need to actually think critically about the media we watch, just mindlessly consume it like good little sheep.
Invaderzzz = headcanon
Not only did Invaderzzz completely make this up (like he made up several other major changes to the story by reintepreting old scenes to fit his narrative), but also does this in no way make the ending better. What a great story, everything is predetermined by rape torture fantasy slave girl because she wants to see necrophilia kiss. Nice story!!!
@@thegamingarchaeologist im pretty sure eren wasn't able to see all of the future, not everywhere anyway. You want me to say that this world isnt in a deterministic timeline but it is and always was, you can call it weak writing but having it be a deterministic timeline makes it so that theres less room for plotholes, if eren was able to go back in time ansd go into the future and prevent things from happening that would arrise plotholes. eren never stops striving for freedom at any point, upuntill the point that he knows that theres nothing he can do to change the future, he laughs when sasha dies because thats something he foresaw and atp he knows everything he saw was going to happen. you say why didnt eren just choose not to do the rumbling knowing he'd be stopped, he didn't at that point, if eren had 100% freewill you can bet your life he would've stomped 100% of the world, i dont remember if they say when he knew that he wouldnt be able to complete the rumbling but he didnt know untill it was already started. And when you say things like why did he do it if he knew it would fail, why not just choose to do something else, say take something away that he knows is going to stop him in the future, ike mikasa or armin,etc the reason simply is that he can't because he knows that these people stop him in the future, whatever choices he makes leading upto his death that he saw were the choices he was always bound to make, this part is really not as confusing or stupid as you make it sound
Time Travel & seeing the future is such a damn cop out... The moment you see the future, it has already changed. Hence a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy set in motion. Such lazy ass writing that amounts to a Snuff Piece. I liked Eren ane Mikasa but their characters got skewed all to hell!
Another thing that is asinine about the Rumbling is that Eren and his army of colossal titans didn’t just kill most of the human population, but also animals and destroyed plants. With so much civilization in ruins and diseases that would arrive from corpses, along with a lack of food, humanity honestly wouldn’t survive but a few years before going extinct.
Uh, no, not really. I think you're underestimating the sheer size of the planet and the resilience of life. True, a lot of biomes and species would have been wiped out by the rumbling, which would have ecological consequences. But given that all of the corpses were flattened and then repeatedly stomped on, there really wouldn't be much chance for them to be vectors for disease. Also, nothing about the rumbling means that humanity would go extinct. Sure, a lot of people and land was trampled, but there's still a lot left. I mean, let's imagine that the rumbling happened in our world, and that the Titans trampled over all of Asia and Europe. That would be bad, but Africa, the Americas, and countless other land masses would be left untouched, and so the people there could continue on with their lives. Plus, the ocean biomes would have been completely unaffected by the rumbling, and might in fact do better now that there are fewer humans.
@@thegamingarchaeologist I wouldn’t go that far. With how large our world is and how reliant on trade and connections with other nations, there would be a huge collapse on that front and cause serious problems at that point. Perhaps the Rumbling wouldn’t be a no win extinction level event like I thought, but I feel it’s worse than you’re suggesting.
@@KingNazaru Oh, I'm not saying that things would be smooth sailing for the survivors, obviously the rumbling would have major consequences, and in the short term life would be harder. But compared to other disasters like the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs, the rumbling isn't nearly as catastrophic, and it's something that humanity would be able to bounce back from.
I don't it, but it wasn't good
Friend of my made me watch the series I enjoyed first 3 seasons 4 season and ending is awful.
I feel sorry for your friend
Bruh it was very good ending sure it has bit of flaws but it was beautiful just like how some of the fandom hated the manga ending yall need to understand the ending to even like it. The show doesn't need a happy ending. The Grim ending fitted so well. Fandoms these days cry about everything
If you think that we hated the ending because it was grim, you haven't been paying attention. We're not upset that we didn't get a happy ending, anyone who was paying attention could clearly see that the story was not going to have a happy ending. The issue is that the ending was garbage, not that it was grim. It is possible to have an ending that is both grim and well written, but for some reason Isayama couldn't manage it.
Fyi ending haters wanted even a sadder/darker final. The one we got is pretty happy. Most of the characters got what they wanted
Exactly @@annett5
@@thegamingarchaeologistbruh are you dumb?
Finale people slowly realized how bad that ending plot wise . And also your forgot the theme what levi said s1 belive my comrades or belive you can do it what happen to the squad levi after eren choice the levi squad ? They died even eren knows later of the series
that's bad choice that he make.
I understand a lot of your criticism, but id say that your wrong in a lot of ways. eren still did this because he had no choice, and the show said this multiple times. Your forgetting the seen where he showed remorse is the exact same as your expectations. Eren wants to stop it and save EVERYONE but he can't because everything he tries to avoid happens. This was foreshadowed too, because he tried to get everyone to hate him before. Don't you remember the lines that eren said to armin and mikasa where he even fought armin, and in my opinion if you had just watched the extra episodes it would make way more sense with how death follows aren. This is helping the plot by aren finding out there was a way to spare some people, and you can't say his plan would not work because most the people who survived were innocents and obviously people who aren't the government would hail the people who saved them and listen to what they said, like "oh hey my kind is just like yours we are just misunderstood. Half the people who survived were marley eldians too.
He had a choice!
The author got lazy & his editors- Surprise, Surprise they suck and love Gundam Political Drama
I absolutely loved it
I'd recommend rewatching the show. A bunch of what you said is just outright wrong or such surface level analysis which does the ending a big injustice. I'm not saying the ending is perfect but the only complaints I personally have are that not enough people died(Levi was set up perfectly to die and would've been very poetic and emotional, but others could've died too) and that that some scenes could've been given time to breathe a bit more but that is about it. If you take whatever Eren said at face value and then criticize it whenever it turned out to be a lie, then I am afraid you shouldn't be giving in depth reviews because you clearly do not understand the character.
i especially think that rewatching the show is what makes you see how bad the ending actually is. Aside of being a manga reader, i rewatched this series (and i keep rewatching it cause except for the the ending, AOT is amazing) TOO MANY times, and the more i rewatch it, the worse i feel about the ending (and Eren's character, since is the topic of the video).
In fact when i talked to my friends, who are all anime onlies, about the final episode, everytime i brought up any problem about the ending using an event or dialogue that happened in previous episodes as my argument, most of the times they replied "Oh sh*t, i forgot about that".
@@Mariana.11I'm very curious what examples you told your friends about because I didn't see a single major point in the video that devalues the ending in any way. Maybe there are some small things which I admit is true but still I'd like to hear something terrible about it.
@@hristiansarmov8118
Episodes like the one when Reiner and Eren meet in Marley, Eren says he's the same as him cause they both had and will have to kill inocent people, people that the other one care about to protect their own people, "their own world", while they hear the whole speech of Willy Tybur about why creating a fake hero like Helos (like Eren wanted to do at the end) to end up a conflict was bad at long-term could be a good point to start.
@@Mariana.11 Yes that was an amazing scene but how is that supposed to convince be the ending is bad you didn't even mention it
@@hristiansarmov8118 honestly, i don't see what kind of weight could have Eren asking Reiner "Why my mother had to die that day?" and then Reiner kneeling and apologizing to him now when you know that Eren was the one who send Dina to kill his own mom (in the anime it is said explicitly) just because "He knew Bertholdt wasn't supposed to die that day"
Fuck the cringelliance. Fuck the retcons. Fuck everybody. AoT ended when Eren bulldozed the fuck out of the cringevengers and went back home to live his life with his wife Historia and their child in the countryside, after appointing King Floch to the throne. Period.
How old are you bro? I'm legitimately womdering if its a younger age group that wants the full genocide ending?
@@Falroth i am mid 20s. and i believe it is mostly guys in their 20s that or on the nationalist side. Just like irl
@@Musipict you're probably right.
Im in my mid-30s and I find this desire to be frighteningly childish. I guess its normal.
Not to sound condescending but once you hit my age you may feel the same.
But I cant argue against the fact that I probably wouldve agreed with you when I was 23, for example
I feel like Isayama chickened out in the end. He just didn't have the guts to have his edgelord character go through with his brutal, but efficient and logical plan because... we just can't have that, ok?!
he was instructed by his higher ups to write an ending where nationalism is depicted as evil. hence all the retcons and character assassinations.
Bro he’s broken
Eren failed to protect Paradis turned into a stupid bird so Jean can plow Mikasa! Lmfao
@@Solaris_Paradox 😂😂😂 yes but he had no choice he wanted some mikasa pussy to but couldn’t cuz they would have died anyway am I the only one who thinks eren was not in the wrong it was just survival of the fittest
@@Solaris_Paradox 🤡🤡
I find it interesting how for some people, the things that they don't like about AoT's ending are the very things that made me enjoy it. We basically have the exact same opinion about the show, except what made you dislike it, made me like it.
Like your opinion. Like your voice. Didn't like that you spoiled two major BIG PLOTS about shows not remotely related to AOT. Guess it's my bad for not having watched Star Wars in 2023
Sorry. In my defense, Terminator 2 is over thirty years old (and was spoiled for me), and frankly The Last Jedi isn't really worth seeing, so spoiling it doesn't matter.
Don’t bother with The Last Jedi or Disney canon. Just read/watch/play the content from the Star Wars Expanded Universe if you want to see what happens after episode 6.
Based video about biggest disappointment for someone who has been reading manga for 5 years
Пук пук
Why I love the attack on titan ending
Maybe because of music and animation just like I did until I bench watch whole I realized ending is bad plot wise
@@sragonlast5723 I love the ending plot wise it makes perfect sense
@@ShirouBrando how?
Why did historia lie about her due date?
How did fritz know about the way of passing titan powers to the next holders?
How did mikasa get back to paradis?
Why didn't the Yeagerists kill her and the alliance in ch 139?
How did eren know he killed 80 % of mankind?
@annett5 ok so
1. When did Historia lie about her due date
2. Fritz just told his daughters to eat all of yimir and "do whatever it takes" he also probably knew Yimir resided in the spine and thats why he said to pass down by eating the spine
3. How Mikasa got back dosent matter she got back that's it thats such a tiny argument that its pointless to bring up
4. Armin took full responsibility for Eren's death So Mikasa someone who the entire island knew how close she was to Eren wouldn't think she would do that
( keep in mind any Yeagerest that did know died) Amd for Armin the narration from the very beginning of the show is Armin telling the story that led to Erens Death to Paradi thats why Armin is the Narrator and like Armin said they would want to know what happened.
Plus Historia is still Queen and she also knows everything that happened (beacuse Eren told her)
5. Eren knows beacuse 1 hes seen it in when he connected to yimir 2 hes currently seeing it through the rumbling
@@ShirouBrando
1. Levi told zeke in the forest historia was to give birth in 1-2 months but did it 2 days later. Why did she lie?
2. How did he know eating ymir would give his daughters powers?
3. Still a plothole
4. “keep in mind any Yeagerest that did know died” no. Mikasa killed their comrades before their eyes, they ran away and would definitely avenge eren and their friends + armin, jean, hange, levi, connie and armin betrayed the island
“for Armin the narration from the very beginning of the show is Armin telling the story that led to Erens Death to Paradi” hilarious. They dgaf what armin wants and needs. He doomed their home and needs to be punished for it
“thats why Armin is the Narrator and like Armin said they would want to know what happened” what does it have to do with the fact the yeagerists hate him? They don’t know he’s the narrator of the story
5. “Eren knows because 1 he seen it in when he connected to yimir 2 hes currently seeing it through the rumbling” where did you get this info from? It’s a headcanon. Eren doesn’t even know why ymir chose mikasa, let alone the number of the people he killed. To know he massacred 4/5 he should have an idea of what 100% looks like
Most of the themes (sins of the father, sacrificing something important to achieve/change something, being born into this world, surpassing the father, ending the cycle of hatred, keeping moving forward, keeping children out of the forest, believing in yourself, living for yourself and relying on yourself) are either uncompleted and forgotten or retconned
The lore and its rules are so unclear and not explored well...
The warhammer, the pregnancy, the Ackerman and the hizuru subplots don't have payoff. Reiner's redemption arc is not finished. Annie and pieck don't face consequences of their actions. Zeke's conclusion is rushed and forced
Most of the characters are butchered, their motivations, actions and words make no sense and don't matter in the end. Lack of character development in s 4 (only gabi evolved naturally) + some of them suffer from being devoid of agency (mikasa, levi, jean). Erwin, kenny, bertholdt, gabi, niccolo and floch are the only ones who have pretty satisfying conclusions and arcs. The alliance is objectively the biggest aot failure when it comes to execution. Just a bunch of hypocrites
The ending's lessons are terrible: don't defend yourself and your loved ones if someone wants to kill you; no matter how hard you work and try, in the end destiny resolves everything; treat your children like garbage and dgas about their future; feelings of one single person are more important than lives of millions of people; never move on from someone you are obsessed with and so on
So many plotholes and pointless dialogues. Kruger's advice was for nothing, the ymir/ymir/eren/historia parallels were for nothing, falco seeing memories in s 4 ep 1 was for nothing, those shards with hange, mikasa and floch in the manga, the dream from s 1 ep 1... what was that all about?
Eren's interview and his inner monologues, Isayama's interviews until 2021 were just a lie all along
"Lost girls" is now vain as it adds nothing to the story. Aot prequel doesn't matter anymore. Just like chibi show, school caste, akatsuki no requiem, muvluv ripoff. All the deaths don't matter. All the dialogues, foreshadowings and flashbacks don't matter. Sacrifices don't freaking matter, especially carla's. The fact eren led dina to her was not only unnecessary in the story and created dozens of plotholes but also ruined his reasons for doing everything
So many retcons: Eren is not a fighter and the main protagonist, he's a pawn and a simp, a plot device. Mikasa is not a badly-written character and mary sue, she was the mc all along and the "solution" to ymir's problem. Ymir is not a victim, she's a tyrant and a true aot villain. Historia is not a relevant heroine as Isayama told us. She just pretended to be good but in reality she's useless. Falco is not an important character, he's a plot device, just like eren. Freedom to eren is not fighting for your life. It's being... dead? (i guess...) Ymir, kruger and grisha actually don't care about historia, eldians and the island. They wanted to doom them this whole time
The story left many contradictions and unanswered questions (why did historia lie about her due date?; how did eren know he destroyed 80 %?; how did mikasa know eren was in the titan's head and how did she get back to paradis?; why did the Yeagerists get the alliance get away with killing their leader and comrades?; why don't they get rid of kiyomi (who's on the island for some reason) and historia?; how did the titans disappear: thanks to ymir's desire or just because the hallucigenia died?; about paths... talking about them would take another paragraph and ymir's character deserves her own essay)
And of course the pacing in s 4, p 2-3 is very rushed in comparison to s 1-s 4, p 1
I just can't believe the person who wrote ch 120-122, 130-131, the rts and the uprising arcs, ymir's backstory, so many amazing parallels between her, eren, historia and freckled Ymir, ch 71, Reiner's reveal, grisha's, Historia's and Zeke's plotlines, is responsible for making ch 139 and the last arc. Seems like 2 different people
Thank you, Isayama, for showing me how to NOT end stories. Noted
I think this ending is a masterpiece, you just don't get it. Isayama had planned everything from start.
It was his plan to give his readers a tutorial on how to not write an ending. He succeeded. This ending is trash 😂
@@raidenstark4964 yeah, he planned everything but up until ch 138. Ch 139 should've ended with a baby being held by supposedly eren and told it's free, not "tHaNk YoU fOr WrApPiNg ThE sCarF aRoUnD mE" bs
He did succeed
@@raidenstark4964 There are too many serious topics involved in this series, war, racism, freedom, love, existentialism, fatalism, yet none of them be explained in a closed cycle. It's like the series always keep you thinking big questions like what's the meaning of life, you are expecting a reasonable answer that naturally derived from the story, but in the end it just says "I don't know either, both sides may be correct, both sides may not be. Just forget that stupid question and watch how epic the rumbling is! " Every time I think about this, I just get itchy, mentally.
You must be a young person. You have to read more stories or travel or meet new people or learn different philosphies. I think AOT was complete, you can see the character development by the context and change of behavour. Everything was subvert.
@@impromptu3155 its meant guide you to want yearn for it and go learn about it.
Dude Eren was a dangerous from the start, he said "I'm an idiot that got too much power" he was right but being to hard on himself, I'll say he was another traumatized human that got too much power. That's another theme of the series, He was justifying all the suffering he already caused (or what he inevitable will do). Also he didn't know everything all the time, that was crystal clear, the "magical" aspect of the character is insane and of course it will create issues (as time travel usually does) but it was repeated that the Attack Titan was dosing the information even to himself until certain event, from then it was the mind of the shifter that had to adapt to a lot of things. I'll say that one off the things I missed from the overall story was a little more exposition about how are the mechanics the experimentation done with titan shifters abilities, just to wrap everything even more nicely. AOT ending as an arc wasn't the best part of the whole, but it didn't need to, it was more important to be a resolution for the story, to deliver important answers and let us leave that universe and characters.
I really didnt like this last movie, even ignoring everything regarding the actual ending, the plot armor in the whole fight is unreal
You tell on yourself that you really didn't understand the ending or Eren when you assert that Eren's whole plan from the beginning was to make them heroes and stop at 80%.
While you're technically right, you're completely missing the point. In the final chapter Eren says that he foresaw everything, and so he knew that he would only end up killing 80%, and his friends would be seen as heroes for stopping him. So while it technically wasn't his plan, his decision to go through with it effectively makes it his plan.
Of course, the problem is why Eren would go through with this plan. If he knew that he wasn't going to be able to wipe out the world, why did he wipe out 80%? If he only wanted to guarantee that his friends would survive, and didn't care what happened to Paradis in the long term, then why didn't he just do what Gabi suggested and just use the rumbling to destroy all of the military bases and ports in the world? That would have bought Paradis plenty of time, and he wouldn't have slaughtered hundreds of millions of civilians, something which he seemingly didn't want to do and felt unbelievably guilty about.
Oh, but he foresaw the future, so he had no choice but to follow it. Bullshit. That's just a lazy cop out excuse to justify bad writing. The Eren we thought we knew wouldn't have just meekly surrendered to fate, he would have tried to make his own fate.
And what's so frustrating is that, again, before the final chapter fucked things up, Eren's actions and motivations made perfect sense. His decision to follow his future memories made sense in light of his circumstances and, crucially, in light of the fact that he hadn't seen all of the future. But changing it so that he actually knew everything in advance just renders all of it nonsensical and stupid.
@thegamingarchaeologist He clearly didn't know everything until he got full control of the Founder. He didn't know when Marley would arrive. He discusses who will inherit his Titan with everyone on the train, so didn't know about the curse ending. He doesn't mention the end of the titan curse to Historia. He didn't know Zeke would double cross him. His plan up until the moment he activated the Rumbling was to complete the Rumbling.
He saw they would stop him yet still decided to go ahead with it because he legitimately wanted to destroy the world and feel whatever sense of freedom he's been after since he was young. He still hates himself for wanting it and desires to be stopped. Something Reiner points out. He's conflicted the entire time, but the guilt didn't outweigh his desire. If it did, he wouldn't have proceeded even after gaining the perspective that everyone was essentially the same. Learning that he'd be stopped after getting what he was after basically enabled him to proceed. Especially since he'd be stopped by the people he'd convinced himself he was doing this for; the fact that they could be lauded as heroes further enabled him to proceed.
Like you said, he could have taken literally any course of action if his goals were simply to save his friends and prop a few of them up as heroes. He was basically God. But his goal was destruction and personal freedom. The other stuff was just a positive consequence.
Eren did _not_ have to follow the future he saw. That's the point. He always had a choice to diverge from it. He isn't a slave to fate, destiny, the future, Ymir, or any of that. He's a slave to Eren. That's what sealed his fate.
@@thegamingarchaeologistEren can control Dina in the past that means he can control every pure titan in the past. He could've saved so many lives and come up with a better solution. Paradis would've had 5 shifters in the first episode if Eren used his brain and change the past.
Dina's Royal colossal titan, Grisha would've had Attack and Founder, and 2 more pure titans would become the female and the armored titan
This story devolved into Gundam Political Drama 😢 @@thegamingarchaeologist
@@yuukichan12bro...Zeke was a red flag from the get-go. Eren shouldn't be surprised by such an obvious double cross
Look, you can't understand the ending without understanding the story first, eren as a character is built as an allegory, together with mikasa and armin they represent triad ,trinity and triumverate ,past present, future, you can't isolate him from the other three to understand the whole painting isyama is painting, he outlined the character as such from the beginning and dabled with the variables abit ,and choose the less grim ending to the character, as i understand it, he didn't actually cause his mother death , he was just confused as the founding mandate his brain to see past present and future at the same time, he thought he might have but was descending into madness as armin noticee that he put himself in a position no human can bare alone that's why armin realized how depressed into insanity from his own forced isolation upon himself that he reassures him that he will always be with him even in hell there's always redemption, eren knew he was descending into insanity that's why small part in his consciousness decided to trust his friends after he abolish trusting anyone but himself from many incidents from s1 anne killed levi squad after he trusted them to handle her to the female titan being anne to reiner and bertholt being the titans that caused his mother death to him not being to save hannes to survey corps wiped out by zeke , he descended in severe giult ,anger and despair, mistrust , uncertainty that led to madness but still small part of him that part buried underneath that still want to be saved ,loved and live, he couldn't shake the weight of the world,yet armin that represent hope, inspite of all contradictions in his character and eren and mikasa all together, took his hand reassuring him of the light at the end of the tunnel, mikasa that represent love ,family and affection recognized her duty towards him and armin and her internal fight ,she actually was saving him in the end in her mind that's why , Ymir looked up to her because she as mikasa had the power and refused to recognize her true goal was not to blindly follow whom you love as she was portrayed as devastation in war but also built roads and bridges just as mikasa but didn't restraint her king from totalitarianism and hegemony but mikasa did when you see isayama final conclusions you really appreciate the ending as apart of a masterpiece close to Dostoevsky notes from underground and brothers Karamazov in manga and anime format
code geass ending overrated, forced death to make him seem like a hero but yea aot ending isnt good
Dude, you're creating headcanon and getting mad when its not actual canon, and its like you're just leaving out scenes to help push your narrative. Firstly Eren says the outside worlds civilization will drop to that similar of Paradis, therefore there cannot be a retaliation. Wheter thats the actual population or technology - idk as translation can mess these things up. But regardless, you saying there's 300 million left is just pure headcanon. Like you even think the titans could kill of around 800 mllion people in the space of time we're shown? thats just fantasy IMO unless they can fly now too. Just because the world " resembles ours in WW1" doesn't mean it IS our world in WW1. Its a fictional universe with Titans.
Secondly and more importantly, you basically try sum it up as Eren ONLY done this to protect his friends/paradis, when he himself has said twice that isn't the only reason why hes doing this. He literally says to Armin " I wanted to see this sight" because he expected the world to be different (not full of more people wanting to lock them in a cage). He also says this to Ramzi , he was basically told a fantasy by Armin of what the world would be , but was disappointed when he seen what it actually was, and wanted to wipe it out. Saying " he only done it to protect Paradis and his friends" is just factually wrong from the evidence we're given, so its kinda comical this is you're main point.
eren wanted to, to protect his friends
eren wanted to, to enact revenge and wipe the outside world out
eren ‘wanted’ to, because it was the only way
eren was a slave to his own ideals
All of these can be true - they aren't mutually exclusive. Have you never seen Breaking bad? Highschool teacher who wants to make money to help his family after he passes, but gets so sucked in with power and greed that he ends up doing it for himself. Characters can be conflicted on why they do the things they do, its not as black and white as " he just done it to protect his friends Lul" anyway...Its something similar to that. Also Isyama is a huge BB fan, so it figures. I cannot even be bothered to touch on the rest of your silly points, and dont get me wrong - theres plenty I dont agree with in the end, but this criticism is like its copied & pasted from r/Titanfolk
And I really dont care to debate the first point, but if you can challenge my points on Eren i much welcome them
Im too bored to write a whole essay about the matter, but all i can say is Eren as a character and the ending as a whole was executed perfectly.
If any hater had a tiny little grasp of the reality and the problems, human history, psychology and such, you can see it's a masterpiece
Then by all means, please elaborate. Explain WHY it was perfect. Or are you just going to resort to thinly veiled insults?
When a character doesn't know what he/she wants, it's definitely NOT executed perfectly, especially when a couple of chapters ago they remembered their goal
Eren's character was certainly executed "perfectly," alright. Seriously, he wants to kill people because he feels like it? That's shallow and one-note levels of evil that not only contradicts the idea that he did it to protect his friends and loved ones but Armin is disgustingly chill about it despite fundamentally disagreeing with it in the first place which also proves that Eren wasn't even the only character assassinated in this conversation.
@@annett5I think you have been reading the story with your eyes closed when you along with eren think that he did the rumbling for any reason lol
It has been constantly said throughout the story that eren did the rumbling because he wanted to make world which he saw in armin’s book lol
Isyama literally spoonfed you guys by adding eren and armin’s conversation that wars won’t stop even if rumbling was completed it’s stupid and it’s like a joke
@@AM17titan "Eren just wanted to commit genocide because of Armin's book, because he was disappointed with what the world looks like". Well, then:
- Why didn't he start it in Liberio? Why did he wait for almost one gd year to attack instead?
- Why was he waiting for Hange in prison to know if they had another option to avoid the rumbling?
- Why did he tell Levi in Shiganshina that he forgot about Armin's dream a long time ago?
- You mean to tell me if the outside world was nice to paradis, eren would destroy it anyway? Are you serious?
- Why wasn't he happy when they finally saw the ocean if that's what Armin's book shows?
- Why was he angry when Frieda said she wasn't gonna save the islanders? By your logic, he shouldn't have gaf about the island or anything else at all
- Why the hell didn't he finish the rumbling to make the world look exactly like in that freaking book and stop at 4/5?
- Why in ch 89 did he remember faye's death caused by hostile people rather than humanity itself
- Why was he looking for other options for 3 years to avoid the rumbling?
- Why didn't he kill willy right after he started his speech and waited until tybur declared war?
If they made Eren more of a Breaking Bad style in the Armin convo, taking a firm stance that he did it cause he wanted to, he has seen the future of paradis getting nuked and he didnt want to let them have their way, and intended to go out with the rumbling leaving this wretched world. Him bawling about Mikasa with another man is bullshit, you cnt convince me, especially season 4 hype watchers... Eren was retconned? Hell the entire crew of characters were retconned, even the dead... Isayama took a big risk with introducing so many serious topics with season 4 and not making any relevant conclusion apart from the cliche "humans will always fight" which we already heard from Erwin. Also what did the audience get from this? Happy moments and fanservice and romantic ships, things that were never expected, acquired by sacrificing 80% of the world who we didn't even connect to, since everyone "relevant" survived, even the moms and dads and most horribly the botched sendoffs of many characters, and goodbyes that were reversed after a minute of cabin hallucinations (that just confirmed the theory that Paradis was gonna get nuked despite Eren's action or inaction, since this was a big argument point of defenders saying that it was Erens fault, that they wouldnt have done such terrible thing, ). Then the plotholes starting with Grisha and his titan, then Zeke dying stopping the Rumbling even tho Eren connected with spinal creature/Ymir. Gutpuching shock value twist that Eren was responsible for his mother's demise and Armin punching him for not noticing Mikasa while Eren was in progress of stepping over civilians. All cause he was an idiot "smacks his head" - uhhh im such a dummy... Making us believe the was some sort of parallel between Eren/Mikasa and Fritz/Ymir (?) , a plot point that apparently started all this, Ymir having to see that "one can let go" , and her subject of interest wasnt even an Eldian, and the male subject was a Titan, so i guess we should brush that off together with the fact that in 2000 years Ymir couldn't have found someone more suitable or someone who would actually LET GO. Hange gaslighting everyone that this is what Erwin would've done, when Erwin was so determined to save Paradis that he was willing to send every single soldier to certain death just so he can move forward, defeat the current threat, plan the next move. Isayama had to kill him off since he needed someone like Armin, a character who was my favorite until season 4, who was nagging on Eren plenty of times even giving speeches to other that they need to relinquish their humanity to defeat the enemy, becoming a fake, unrelatable plot armored pseudo leader, who still to this day hasnt contributed sh*t apart from showing leaves, seashells, and being a knight in the shining armor, joining the alliance to save the world, also starting a romance with a former enemy with whom he spent most of the time while she was literally a crystal. What the actual A$$ was Isayama thinking? Not only did the make a bad ending he ruined the anime i loved to the point of rewatching it once a month, and now i cant bring myself to watch a single scene, and knowing myself would have more emotion staring at the wall... What a sad revelation . I never saw AoT as a fatalist Schopenhauer-esque story but more of a Nietzschean tragedy where all the suffering would amount to something, not atrocious genocide of the world just so 5 people i ended up hating (Except Levi, he was just a bot, i thought his meeting with Kenny and his roof decision would sign his progression rather than being a yes man fixated on killing Zeke) would have fancy boat rides delivering, what i would assume, cringeworthy speeches of their heroics deeds not totally puppeteered by Eren and plot armor. If you would to put them in the same setting in season one they would be puddles of blood on Erens ribcage in mere seconds. Glad after the dust settled more and more people, with the gaslighting gone, are starting to see more and more bs where they get to the point of saying "wait, this was no GENIUS ENDING, not even close" So we will just say that it's all good cause Eren is human like everyone else (not) and everybody is human, so they have flaws, and the story will end with them being flawed and we will learn nothing but cycle of hatred. Go watch Naruto and listen to Pain for 2 minutes and you will have the entire message. Humans are flawed but story NO, story is perfect.
Great video.
I was wondering, has anyone else heard something along the lines of: "Cant you see that the overarching theme is that humans are tragically flawed and perpetual conflict is human nature?" Firstly, how can you argue that this is not terrible storytelling in itself? Youre supposed to be wrapping things up, not forcing your audience to grasp for straws
In real life anything can happen. Stop expecting a heroe's tale. Eren's mind was warped by all things he has ended up learning about life. His frustration and his darkness came into fruition. Characters change and dark emotions exist. AOT indicated all awful emotions as part of the human experience. Hatred, anger, blissful ignorance, resentment and alienation. Isiayama wanted to change the trope away from all the toxic positivity and all the fake happy emotions. He wanted to indicate "Life is not fair and was never meant to be". IMO, Eren was no hero, a young man with bad emotions will destroy the world, so learn to forgive and move forward. Be like Levi!
It's not enough to have good ideas or themes, they have to be executed properly. The Last Jedi had good ideas, but the execution was lackluster at best, and for a lot of people it just didn't work. Also, this doesn't actually address any of the problems I had with the ending to AOT.
@@thegamingarchaeologist you reference Star Wars. My nearest reference would be MGS. All in all, it seems like you want a feel good end. Star Wars came from a different time, during those times, movies were meant make you feel good due to life s drudgery. AOT was made in the years of Sopranos and Breaking Bad. Can you empathize with an antagonist?
@@Shadowmanchronicles No, I don't want a feel good ending. I wasn't expecting a feel good ending, I knew the ending to AOT would be dark. What I was expecting was an ending that was coherent and well written, and for whatever reason that's not the ending we got. And yes, I can empathize with an antagonist. I was empathizing with him all the up to chapter 139, when his character was torn to shreds and his motivations became confusing, nonsensical, and petty.
@@thegamingarchaeologist Eren became derannged. Have you ever sat in a room with a Schizophrenic? Eren was pushed to the edge and fell off. Its like mass shooting documentary. Broken boys become men that want destroy the world so be kind like Levi
@@thegamingarchaeologist its like Venom Snake in MGSV, a character devoid of any meaning but to serve his purpose to big boss. Absolutely, indoctrinated to cause to not of his own but someone elses purpose. Erens future self influenced his past self then it became a dangerous feedback loop. Attack Titans power of forsight and past sight ate up Eren's mental health. This is why he was deeply stuck. He could not see the reality to which he put himself in. He need like a mushroom trip to let down the walls in his mind like Wall Mariaa.
If every amine ended with the stereotypical MCs hero ending where everything ends up ok, then what’s the point of having a story. The reason why I love AOT is it has an actual message to give then just ending with yay we defeated the bad guys, THE END. Sure it’s not a way that everyone wants a story to end, but that’s never what AOT was about. It’s about stopping a cycle of suffering and hatred that was going on for thousands of years. That’s something that as humans we’ve been doing ever since we came in existence. AOT has a lot of messages that we as humans could really benefit from. For some people they think this is a really shitty way to end a story and that’s ok, but if you only think about it like that then you will miss the importance of what lsayama was really trying to tell. We may live in a cruel and unforgiving world, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be beautiful as well.
And you clearly don't understand why people hate the ending. It's not because the ending was dark or unhappy, anyone who was paying attention could clearly see that the story wasn't going to have a happy ending. We didn't hate the ending because it was bleak, we hated the ending because it was poorly thought out, poorly executed, actively contradicts things that were previously established, and retro actively makes the whole narrative feel pointless.
Hell, a lot of the people who hated the ending wanted the story to end with Eren killing the alliance and completing the rumbling, which would have been significantly darker than the ending we got. So no, we don't hate the ending because it was dark, we hate it because it was badly written.
AOT FANS,ASSAMBLE 👇
AOT Fans... you're in love with nihilistic edgey trash. Get over it.
(Yes, I'm feeling rather punchy tonight. Not sure why.)
To be honest I didn't like the ending partially because Eren went through mass genocide. I know he was in a tough spot, to say the least, and characters aren't going to always be doing what's justified. Hence character flaws exist. But I don't like it because it was the worst possible and inhumane thing Isayama could come up with. I respect everyones opinions so if anyone reading this disagrees I respect your opinion. There have been other stories that were even historically accurate like Braveheart where the protagonist valued freedom for himself and his people above all else and was willing to destroy everyone who oppressed his people by the end of the film he is defeated and executed but he makes it clear that he was doing everything he was for his people. From that point, more people even from the enemy's side sided with his cause in the end and fought for their freedom. I might sound over-optimistic but I still genuinely believe there was more Eren could have done especially if he had the power to see the future.
No rumbling means Marley invades and destroys paradis. Just know that
@@GregSmithIII Yeah but I don’t even like how Marley was introduced. The entire rumbling arc felt like purposeful worst possible scenario after another and Eren even helped it go that way. I respect your opinion and all but to me it felt like there was no freedom or even motivation for it.
It seems Isayama was trying to have Eren do what Ozymandias did in Alan Moore’s Watchmen. Due to being a Christian, I disagree with Moore’s story about nihilism and the deconstruction of heroes. I do however acknowledge that it is well written. Isayama isn’t as smart or talented as Alan Moore, and thus he couldn’t pull off what he did. As you said, Hajime Isayama messed up because he didn’t know what he was doing.
What's frustrating is that before the ending I thought that Isayama did know what he was doing. I'm only half joking when I say that Isayama must have had a stroke while writing the final volume, because how else does someone become such a terrible writer overnight?
@@thegamingarchaeologist Honestly I’ve seen people like Spryzen say the series got bad as soon as season 4 began. Then there’s Anime Snob who basically thought the series was never good and that its biggest detriment was padding the story with mystery baiting. Regardless of the catalyst, Hajime Isayama fumbled that ball. Side note, I really hate some of those cringy dialogue and jokes in the ending.
@@KingNazaru In my opinion the series was always good, but the first season was a bit rough around the edges. However, it only improved from there, and I think that season 4 (and the manga chapters it was based on) were absolutely brilliant. After Eren activated the rumbling the writing did get a little weaker, but it was still good. It wasn't until the final volume that things just took a complete nosedive into insane nonsense.
@@thegamingarchaeologist The worst part is when we actually criticize the ending, they just assume we wanted a Disney level happy ending, which is false. Anyone who has watched this series knew from the get go this wasn’t going to have a happy ending. In fact most people wanted Eren to complete the Rumbling and kill his friends which would’ve been darker than this asinine and cringe inducing ending we got.
The thing os Eren was ALWAYS like this, it was always there. .. it didnt just come out of no where, he was always fucked up like that and was always going to crumble at the end. He says ocer and iver he tried changing everything and couldnt. Of course he was going to break, he actively didn't want it to happen until his attempts at stopping it broke him so heavily he just didn't care anymore.. but he was always going to be broken from this, not sure how thats character assasination. Eren was never a sigma Chad chadderson that was chadding on the entire world. He was a cry baby little kid that dodnt want to accept the world was the way it was....
How was his fall not seen and why is it bad for so many people, it was ALWAYS there... Eren was never meant to be loved as an uber chad that killed 80% of the world.... The ending was because Eren realized the ending he WANTED would end with his friends dead early, he was going to die no matter what in 4 years. He wanted his friends to live longer.... How dis you miss so much of the story while making this video? I don't understand how you missed so much...
See I'd be inclined to agree but I actually loved the ending a lot. Everything led up to this decently, although some things I would rather happened differently, it's also been pretty well pointed to that Eren is in full control of the Founding Titan he's no longer in full control of himself. Ymir has a great influence over him now and a lot of what Eren did was through her will. She has the slave mind but felt liberated by Eren when Zeke allowed him into the coordinate, but by that point his travelling into the past and doing what he did was more her influence than his own which is also something we briefly went over in his story with Armin inside the paths when he stated that he wanted this very badly but didn't know why, and when he said the founding titan has messed with his head jumbling the past, future, and present into a mess and letting Bertholt go since "it wasn't his time" which led to his moms death. Eren wouldn't have done that himself. The best he could do against her will was change the plan to just 80% and make himself the enemy. Of course this is also a detail I'd like to have changed but that's how Isayama wanted it. I didn't like the ending at all when I first saw it but given time I began to actually prefer it with these little details.
Great touch on Eren's character👏👏👏...I like how you explained simply why Eren's zero requiem plan wouldn't work in the AOT world (CG fan here 😁but unlike Moist Critical who loves the AOT ending because it's similar to CG's ending, I hate this ending because of the same exact reason) It's really important to remember that Lelouch didn't commit genocide because he was after worldwide peace. On the contrary, Eren wasn't after worldwide peace but rather he was after eradicating anything that stood in the way of him guaranteeing the island's safety so his friend and the future generation wouldn't have to worry about a possible war (it was shown in S3 when the scout went against Rod Reiss's titan and Eren before turning into a Titan said that he wouldn't let these children suffer what he suffered). So the most important difference between Lelouch and Eren is the goal which requires completely different plans to achieve each one.
However, now I feel like I wasted my time hyping and theorizing about Eren's motivation and Titan's lore. In the end, even the author didn't care about his characters and story so why should I? After all, Yam was only after money and popularity rather than delivering a powerful ending that could surpass the safe lines of usual storytelling.
One of my friends called Isayama a coward, She believed that he was going to give us the darkest, brutal ending of all time, making us feel conflicted about liking Eren or not...Just like you said, It would be better if it was like 'Yes Eren achieved freedom but at what cost? while showing him visiting his friends' graves, especially Mikasa' (Armin being the only survivor of the alliance is the narrator explaining why it all came to this and showing how much he despises Eren) but they also show us how peaceful the island becomes and remains that way with it becoming so advanced that ppl could visit the now empty but recovered rest of the planet they couldn't visit before. This would be a worse punishment than dying for Eren in my opinion - him losing everything and being left to live with regrets and extreme PTSD (instead of Mikasa, they could show us Eren not moving on from his past and being stuck with it until he dies of old age - he could even have family and he isn't truly happy but he still believes that he did the right thing with his last scene holding his child saying that she is now free).
In my theory: The curse of Ymir disappears after Ymir chose Eren over Zeke. The power of Titans is gone when the rumbling is completed (it could be a deal between Eren and Ymir or Eren simply ended it since Ymir gave him full power to do whatever he pleases since he freed her S4p2). Every goddamn time an author can't explain some basic lores in their story, they stick to love so why I am surprised that Isayama would choose the same path and strategy. It's so easy not to explain sh*t when it come to love because feelings can't be explained right? 'Only Ymir knows' is a straight '🖕' to dedicated fans who were too invested in the story and Isayama tells us that he neither wants nor cares to explain anything about why he chose this ending or maybe he was just telling us that someone else was writing his story at the end and he didn't know anymore what was going on.
I respect ppl who were ok with the ending and want to move on with their lives but those specific NPCs who are also crawling in your comment section are the toxic fans who only want to pick a fight and disrespect ppl who didn't like the ending while providing a bunch of delusional headcanons said by some famous RUclipsrs as their explanation for why the ending was perfection instead of thinking for themselves that these headcanons are created by other delusional fans to unsuccessfully fill the huge plotholes created by the author (it's like they're being paid to ruin the series even more 😂😂😂).
Final note: In the end, I guess Isayma himself didn't understand his own story. If he let some creative and talented fans write the ending, we would have received a better result (since fans do more analysis and are mostly more dedicated to the story itself). A wise man once said to me that when a story gets so many new plot points without closing the older ones properly, even the best authors will lose their magic when reaching the end so maybe AOT was all about the journey and not the end.
Sorry for the long a$$ comment 😅...Again thank you for putting aside your bias and the feeling of nostalgia instead you had the balls to upload your honest opinion on YT where everyone is putting on a mask and expressing a media popular opinion to gain viewers (Every time I see another repetitive YT video analyzing the brilliance of the ending, I'm like 'same shit, different essay'). To everyone who thinks the AOT ending is anything special and perfect only because the godly production covered the flaws, don't forget that Superhero movies and shows also are being loved by the majority and are winning multiple awards here and there while they're only enjoyable (the writing and dialogues are terrible and cringe as f*ck if you ignore the CGI and action sequences).
The Biggest Mystery of AOT according to the majority of fandom: Did Mikasa get married or stay single mourning over 'Ereh' (what a loyal dog)? She probably is being visited by that bird Eren every day, isn't she? Oh and also Mikasa was reunited with Eren in the afterlife...what a masterpiece 😍😍😍 We truly didn't understand the ending!
Q: Again...how exactly did Mikasa free Ymir if she herself wasn't able to move on after several decades and even her death?
Isayama: *Reveals Attack on Titan sequel* Actually I trolled everyone into thinking that way so I can write my sequel (Milk More Money) about the Halluceginia existence and Eren being the next Ymir being freed by this random character here 😑
I agree. I also thought that kind of ending was what we were getting, and I'm exceedingly disappointed that we didn't get that. It would have become the ultimate "I've won, but at what cost," moment that surpassed any other such moment in all of media. Whenever anyone said that line it would be hard not to remember that aot scenario.
Unfortunately what we got is something that I think is disappointing regardless of which side you're on. The other ending would have offered more closure; while the ending we got feels incomplete since it's completely ignoring the giant purple elephant in the room.
First we would see Eren suffer the losses which would just be better than watching Mikasa who doesn't deserve such an ending, and it would oddly feel like the story has come full circle. In the beginning we thought before we knew about Eldians and Marlians we thought it was just humanity, and humanity would start to leave the walls. It would be tragic with the loss of Mikasa, and the world, but it would feel like what young Eren "thought" he wanted.
The ending we have just seems so illogical and incomplete. Even though it was Paradise islanders that stopped Eren and saved humanity; the rest of humanity will still blame them; and they're likely to just end up basically enslaved 3rd class citizens again if they're even allowed to go on living.
The ending would have been tragic and bleak either way, but it would have also felt more complete had Eren succeeded at the cost of his loved ones. The situation between the islanders and everyone else is strained to the point that you know there's going to be conflict, and yet we don't get answers to any of the important questions remaining like; What will happen now? How will they negotiate peace after what happened?
Marlians and people from other nations outside of paradise will naturally want revenge for what Eren did, and it's highly likely that the paradisers will end up in a losing war, but it's not addressed at all in the ending.
Of course maybe it's as you said and Isayama chose this route on purpose so he can write the following tensions and war that's bound to break out, and milk that for all it's worth. 🤷♀️
@@kohaiame2691 In other words, it's an open ending from what you describe and that's why it feels incomplete as if we are waiting for sth more. it's funny how Armin's 'Talk no Jutsu' was the solution in the final (with Zeke and at the end, Marleyan soldiers) while Armin always failed using this method throughout the story lol I believe Eremika ship was a big mistake that ruined both Mikasa and Eren's character. Even VA of Mikasa just recently downplayed Mikasa's character to Eren's love and that she actually didn't move on from him (someone who committed mass murder but who cares right?)
I believe with the ending we got...Isayama is definitely after either an alternative ending (just like Evangelion and Muv Luv and even Code Geass) or a sequel.
Question 1: what do you think about the final unsolved mystery of AoT? Did Mikasa die a virgin or not? Pffff Jean's VA confirmed she married Jean and fans are pissed lol Also, SiM commented that their songs (Rumbling and Under the Tree) are all about Eremika, which the latter song is but the former?! How much is this show going to fall from its grace?
Isayama better make it fast if he doesn't want his whole 13 yrs of hard-work being downgraded by some shippers.
Question 2: Some fans are saying the main theme of AoT is 'The world is cruel yet beautiful', is this true?
yeah bro ending is ass aot ruined like game of thrones
the problem with this is that you fail to understand what actually happened. In the ending (if you paid attention) eren says that he wanted to cause the rumbling, and that he did it because he always wanted to go to the outside world and see all the things in armins book threat free, only to learn that the outside world was occupied by monsters worse than titans. His initial reaction was to want to kill them all, and he eventually returns to this, but he decides (temporarily) that its wrong to massacre the world. Which makes sense, thats screwed up. HOWEVER, when he learns that he caused the rumbling through his future memories, he breaks down and decides its inevitable, not because it has to happen, but because he wants it to. THATS why he broke down crying, because he was horrified that he alone could cause such destruction so selfishly. The reason it was inevitable, is because he knew he would be exposed to something that would cause him to make the decisions he did. When he ate the warhammer titan, he was exposed to the memories of the tybbur family, and thats what gave him the idea of glorifying his friends by having them kill him, which made him change his mind, and rather than seeing the world for himself, he decided that armin should do it. All of this is not my own crazy fan theory, or some wild interpretation, its literally what the show and manga say outright. There is no excuse for the lack of understanding in the aot community aside from the blatant lack of literary comprehension skills apparently present.
Yeah they ruined eren😖
Aaah the anime only's finally get to experience the pain of the ending
and it was awesome, i love how all the ending haters ended up being just wrong, i worried for nothing
@@antoniorodriguez5849 bro how awesome was the ending?
Yeah there is 1 or 2 things I"d like to be fleshed out a little.... but this is the ending Isayama wanted. And its fantastic
Changes i would consider better than what we got (a few things off the top of my head, feel free to add more):
1) Levi should have joined Eren because anything else is contradictory to his character. Levi always fought to free the people of the island and saw countless comrades die for that reason, also he saw his dearest friends get killed by the warriors, and now all of sudden he's a team with them because "le evil rumbling"??
2)Levi should kill Zeke and Annie and Reiner in the most brutal way possible (after Eren has used Zeke)
3)Someone kill Gabi please, she deserves it
4)Eren must complete the rumbling while killing his traitorous friends who betrayed their homeland and comrades
5)Floch should be glorified as the utmost embodiment of bravery, and heroism and have a statue built for him
6)Historia bares Eren's child, which he successfully saves and protects by a successful rumbling, thus surpassing his father and grandfather who failed to protect their children.(surpassing the father theme being concluded in the best way possible)
7)Ymir actually having a character and a brain
8)Mikasa being killed by someone after being shown that she never truly loved Eren, only the image of him she had created in her mind, otherwise she would have never fought against him
9)The plot about Mikasa being Hizuru royalty actually leading somewhere and being of significance to the story
10) Eren not killing his mom because that's totally insane and has no reason to happen
11)Eren not convincing Grisha to kill the Reiss, he was already a dedicated restorationist, had no need for being convinced.
12) Eren actually not even having any time travel powers at all would instantly make the show 100 times better.
13)Back at the battle of the port and the plane, the Yeagerists whould have killed at least a couple of the main characters, maybe Jean or Connie, because the main cast having 100% survival rate is totally stupid and unrealistic. Also, the Yeagerists should have at least damaged the ship or plane or both, there was so many of them, it was unrealistic for them to be unable to shoot a damn boat or plane a single time. In fact, now that i think about it, the Yeagerists were so many and so overwhelming with the thunderspears and Floch's guidance, they should have at least taken down one of the main Titans, say Annie, or Reiner. Annie dying here at the port battle would have been great and made perfect sense.
Didn't read the whole answer but seriously why would Gabi deserve that? I think she had an amazing growth during the final season and you have to remember that all her life she's been living in Marley brainwashed by everyone. Despite all this, she still understands by the end that she was wrong unlike Eren.
@@ZebNyan96she's a psychopathic killer, and despite realizing she was wrong, she still fought against the paradisians. being brainwashed is not an excuse for being a sadistic murderer. Falco lived in Marley too, but he never became a sadistic psychopathic killer. It has nothing to do with brainwashing, it is simply her character. she is a sick and evil person.
Believe me, I HATED this ending. But not exactly for these reasons...your argument that this is a beyond stupid plan on Eren's part and someone capable to foreseeing EVERYTHING in the future should have known this WOULD be spot on, IF this was real life or we find out that the world DID hate and fear the people of Paradis after the Rumbling. BUT neither of those things are true, so your argument is borderline nonsensical. We find out at the end that things DID go as Eren said it would and peace WAS achieved. We know this because we find out that Paradisians have very successful peace talks with what remains of the world and the scouts act as ambassadors to the world and are received with open arms. More that that, we find out that Mikasa lived a very long and happy life, and Eren's grave/the new tree of the Hallucigenia (which was in Paradis) was untouched what we can assume is hundreds or thousands of years later. Obviously, the grave of the person who murdered 80% of the world's population would be completely desecrated and destroyed if peace wasn't achieved and the world rose up against Paradis after the Rumbling. So clearly Eren COULD see all of the future and knew that this was the cost for that outcome. The correct way to hate this is by saying that the Rumbling in literally any realistic scenario would have led to everyone who survived hating and fearing Paradis regardless of the Paradisians being the one to stop him, swiftly leading to the decimation of Paradis. It's a total lack of realism that makes the writing so bad in this instance, not the idea that "Eren should've known better." Because, clearly he DID know better, and everything worked out how he hoped it would.
Agreed. The show fell off around S4 right where it fell off in the manga. The story alone. The animation was great, but yeah I disliked the writing. And not just because it wasn't a good ending, as in the good guys win or something, but because of Eren. Eren alone. Really just a terrible protagonist. He had the opposite of growth over time. Rather than learn from mistakes and from growing up in the world, he made the same mistakes over and over. He repeated the worst crimes he ever saw, rather than using his power to change things for the better. People will go "But that was never Eren. He always hated everything!" ... He was a child when he was yelling about killing all Titans. A stupid kid. And we see that when he's on that tree branch with Bertholdt and Reiner. He yells about killing them all, and Ymir calls out Eren for being immature. And then we see Bertholdt crying about it and how he didn't want to do any of this, and for a second you see Eren hesitating- even while tied up and being kidnapped. Then they learn the history about Marley and Eldia and learn that things aren't so simple as black and white. That there is a complex history...
Then Eren decides to kill everyone. An interesting character would've been an Eren who finds out about that stuff and grows as a character. He can't just forgive what happened to his family and his people, but he also knows more than most people. He understands now why Reiner did what he did, and that doesn't justify slaughtering so many innocent people, but those kids didn't understand what they were doing when they did it. Eren did. Eren knew exactly how horrible it was. Yet the writer has Eren talking to Reiner and going "We're the same. We're the same Reiner," right before he goes ahead and slaughters an entire city. But they weren't the same. Eren was 100x worse than Reiner, because Eren was an adult by that point who knew exactly what he was doing. He knew the city he was about to wipe out was full of innocent children. But he butchered them anyway. That's not a protagonist. Whatever reasons you try to justify Eren from that point onward, he was a villain. Lots of villains have sad backstories. They have goals that some people would think of as justifiable or relatable, but those goals don't matter once you're slaughtering children. And that's the rest of the show. The writer trying to justify Eren's actions to us to enough of an extent to see everything as "gray." It's not good or evil, it's all just gray. And maybe Eren is right? But no. He's not. And he's a bad protagonist to follow at that point, because he's changed from the guy we want to root for to the guy we root against. Suddenly, we are supposed to shift our focus over onto side characters. To go care more about the side characters than the main character we spent 3 seasons getting to know.
Ultimately, it comes down to the timeskip. A timeskip is best used to explain away a power jump, not a character motivation change. We should see that happen in front of us. Instead, the author was experienced with making mystery and slowly revealing everything, and by S4 all the secrets had been revealed. So the author needed more. So he made a 7 year timeskip so that he could slowly release all the secrets of what happened those past 7 years over the next lots of chapters. Bad writing. Really bad. Because instead of having a continuity from S1 to the ending, there's a continuity for the first 3 seasons that is then suddenly jarred to a halt when S4 starts 7 years later and all the characters we knew are completely different people from who they were 7 years before. And that wouldn't be so bad, if the one who changed the most drastically wasn't the main character. Because that's the character we should be most connected to by that point. The one we care about the most. The one we really want to follow and see what they're up to... but seeing him wipe out a city full of kids and get his own friends (Sasha) killed in the process, it was a waste. A waste of time getting invested in his character the first 3 seasons, because that character no longer existed. Because the Eren from ONE SEASON AGO would never have done that. That was a kid who had in the past learned from mistakes, become more mature, and fought alongside his friends for a better future... and that character no longer existed. So it lost my interest. Eren as a character in S4 is not the Eren from the earlier seasons. That thing of him kissing Historia's hand or something and seeing the future is dumb. It's really dumb. It doesn't justify the bad writing of the final seasons.
Eh some decent points but I think y'all hating a bit much like calm down.
Think y'all are sucking Isayama's toes too much
you have to see the endings of every season to understand the AOT ending, mikasa an eren finally meet in the afterlife, both declares what they think, this is just realistic, eren sins were forgibben
and he understand why he took those desitions, he tells falco that he wanted him to live a long life along with gabi, he just cares too much with his friends, he just make sure they dont die and become heroes
Absolutely agree Eren's character was completely butchered in the ending. I had deluded myself into believing an AOE was going to happen. Because with that atleast the ending wouldn't have been so bad.