An anecdote that I always admired about Marilyn, that she was a massive fan of Ella Fitzgerald. Due to racism many clubs and venues would not allow Ella Fitzgerald to perform. Until Marilyn Monroe found out and would call the owners, in doing so she would sit in the front row while Ella Fitzgerald performed. This act broke many barriers, Marilyn was ahead of the times in many ways.
Marlyn was an actress following what the director wants! She was doing her job! And Joe beat the hell out of her that night! That was confirmed by her hairstylist and makeup artist! They had to cover all the bruises 😢
Cheere, I am sure you and your boys will look back on their home schooling with fond affection. Be proud and confident that you have put their educational needs first. You are equipped and have the qualifications to do it. Dear Norma Jean. I can only surmise that her intellect and maturity stopped developing at the height of her childhood abuse. I'm sure her want to be an intellectual equal, among her peers, was a desire that if the 'guardian's' in her life had invested the same amount of time in her education and self worth, as they did in abusing and neglecting her, she could have lived up to her dreams. I could say a lot was to blame because it was the 50s/60s, but I know nothing has improved as far as child abuse is concerned. However, the 60s was a time of the sexual 'revolution', an era when men could openly objectify women and encourage them to be become publicly uninhibited. There's so much more to that topic, but I really don't want to go there. I really do appreciate you're honesty and ability to continue reevaluating your perspective of people. 🕊🙏🕯🇦🇺
Whereas I am wondering if Jack was anything else than the image created to create the Kennedys in the first place. Marilyn WAS a successful actress. Was Jack even a politician - or just a bombshell persona?
Poor Norma Jean was so incredibly damaged, just don't think anyone could have helped her, especially after she became Marilyn in incredibly toxic Hollywood. II've known people very well who've been that damaged and abused in childhood and there's no completely recovering from it. Even with extensive therapy and medication.
Hello Beautiful Lady! I'm so glad that you posted something again. I wanted to email you with some exciting news yesterday but I couldn't find your address. (I'm a 62 year old woman with the technological expertise of a 90 year old!!!). I felt as though I had a brush with royalty yesterday. I was watching Stef The Alter Nerd and she had DC Lawyer John Witherspoon on as a guest. After they finished their discussion, John made a shout out to two of his favorite content creators. The first one was Brittany from Royal News Network. I felt like Buddy from Elf saying "I KNOW her!" as I am one of her followers! Then lo and behold, the second name was revealed. It was Cheere Denise!!! You rate way up there in my top favorites Cheere! I was so excited to hear your name and wanted to share my news with you. Maybe you already know but if you don't, I just had to share it with you. Congratulations! I hope you get the warm fuzzies when you learn this. I could listen to your voice reading the phone book and I'm sure that you could make me laugh with your repertoire of voices! You Go Girl!!!
MM allegedly had an IQ of 165, 5 points above that of Albert Einstein. The image of MM the film star was a studio construct deliberately moulded into the embodiment of every male fantasy. She became the blank screen for everyone - men and women - to project their fantasies onto. If you see pictures of her before she got her studio make-over she was indeed wholesome and natural with a beguiling innocence about her. The archetypal dumb blonde was literally typecast and under immense pressure to maintain the illusion when in fact beneath that exterior was a very intelligent and complex woman. She was also a great actress within the confines of the roles she was offered - ‘Some Like it Hot’ with Jack Lemon and Tony Curtis was a classic of its time, as was her partnership with Jane Russell in ‘Gentlemen Prefer Blondes’. I sat through many MM all-nighters at fringe cinemas - her worshippers were like a cult and her undoing was the dynamics of the struggle to come to terms with the fact that every man who approached her wanted the reflected glory of bagging the world’s biggest sex symbol but then couldn’t handle the disappointment when the real MM ‘off-screen’ version of her was revealed to be really just like any other woman, vulnerable, complex and nuanced with very real needs of her own. A background of trauma and abandonment leaves a scratch through a person’s psyche much like a needle on a vinyl record and so the pattern of being used and abused by men becomes deeply entrenched.
I'm not a MM fan, I understand the fascination by men but I have never been able to see her beauty. Attractive perhaps but not a true beauty. It was her ability to play up her sensuality that made men fall for her. I believe that 165 IQ was a yarn spun by others just to enhance the mystique.
I have heard that MM and JR were close friends off screen. There is a story that Jane was devout Christian and led bible studies. Jane said,”I can introduce you to Jesus.” Marilyn said,”and I can introduce you to Freud.”
I love the story where Marilyn rang Jackie and told her Jack was leaving her and the kids for Marilyn. Jackie responded with well that’s just fine Marilyn, you go to all the White House state dinners and live in the White House and go on the campaign trail….. Marilyn didn’t like that response one bit 😂😂
Marilyn Monroe was an excellent actress. She was bound by the studio system to be “the bombshell.” Truly, her dramatic roles are excellent: Niagara, Don’t Bother to Knock, The Misfits (my favorite.) Her comedic roles are still unsurpassed to this day. People love to whittle her down to her sex appeal, but she is still a big part of our culture because she was so much more. People are initially called to her movies because of the sex appeal, but they stay because she wasn’t at all what they’d expected. Even her co-stars speak of her enigmatic character, both to men and women.
I think MM was beautiful and a very good comic actress. You're never playing yourself on screen. She's usually undervalued because she made acting look easy.
@@Vichyfarm Yes you’re right. However, in men, the opposite can be true. Lena Horne was supposed to have the “ perfect “ facial measurements. I really don’t think any actress can compare with Marilyn’s beauty from head to toe.
it was a blessing and a curse . . . Capote's "A Beautiful Child" in Music for Chameleons captures that [have mentioned that a few times now, and i'll probably reread it tonight, lol, but they were friends and he captured how she dealt a bit, turned 'it' off and on [or used the dimmer;)]]
@@zellipa I’m sure you know Truman wanted Marilyn to star as Holly Golightly. Thank you for letting me know about Music for Chameleons! I’ve read some Capote, but not all.
I agree completely! People love her or they hate her. I question if the people that hate her ever truly give her a chance without expectations. Niagara, Don’t Bother to Knock, and The Misfits, my all time fave, are amazing.
Marilyn *was* very bright. Abused children, particularly women, usually seek to be abused in relationships in adulthood. This is almost always a subconscious response. Why? If the abuse began at a formative age, adults are attracted to what they knew as children, even if it was awful.
THIS. As someone that maintains CPTSD, I still don’t understand why so many people still have such a cruel view of people that had struggles such as this. So much of your experience plays into how you live your adulthood, therapy or not. All of what you stated is psychology 101.
Always heard about this relationship between Jack Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe but this is the first time I've heard anyone go into greater detail on it. And i think it's gross when siblings, or worse yet, father and son, have sexual relationships with the same woman.
I have been a fan of Marilyn since I was a teenager. I am now 50. I have watched all of her movies many or too many times. I simply wanted to respectfully say that she might have made bad movies, but there are several performances of hers that are incredible. She was a great actress when given the right rôle. It is sad that the general comment about her is that she was bad.
Yes, I've also commented my opinion about this. I really liked her in Niagara, I did not like all her dum blond roles although Gentlemen Prefer Blonds are not the worst.
@@annelikriek6294 Niagara for sure, she is so evil in it! Bus Stop and The Misfits and Don't Bother to Knock are my favourites for serious roles, but I have to say that for a good laugh, I always liked The Seven Year Itch, Some Like it Hot and How to Marry a Millionaire. I do agree with Cheeree though, when it comes to her making bad life decisions and people using the classic "difficult childhood" reason to excuse them.
Niagara has always felt like a Hitchcock movie to me. She was amazing in it. Don’t Bother to Knock is along the same level of greatness, but The Misfits will always have my heart.
At times, I don’t think you take the timeframe into your thought process. During the 50’s and earlier, women were who their husbands were. A woman’s identity was of her husband so marrying a smart man would make you appear smarter. I understand that way of thinking. So much has changed for women over the past several decades that younger people don’t realize.
Thank you for letting us know about your schedule but don’t stress, I think the people that love your channel understand. Appreciate you letting us know. 😊
Years ago I read a great biography about Marilyn & if someone hadn’t stolen it from me I could tell you the author. If I’m not mistaken it was written with a lot of help from her almost lifelong confidante, it was excellent. Marilyn was a lot smarter than she was given credit for, she stood up for equality back when it wasn’t exactly kosher, she owned her own production company way before women were respected to own businesses. I highly suggest this book, I’m going to see if there’s some chance in hell that I can recognize the cover & report back.
Wow! Are you on some kind of marathon posting!? Seems like between the Kennedy’s and the Mountbatten’s I get to watch you every day! Really hope no one in the comments thinks I’m complaining! This the best week of my life! Thank you so much!❤😂
Honestly! What an innocently pleas urable sensation anyhow to stand over a warm grate. Poor Joe. You dont have to be smart to whack a ball with a piece of wood. and his reaction to her c ontinuing to be the person he married proved it.
@@countessAugusta 7 Year itch showed her brilliant comedic timing! Same in “How to marry a millionaire” Brilliant performance still relevant! So was set to produce and star in Shakespeare’s plays to film scripts
Not an orphan, but the daughter of a seriously mentally ill mother who needed to be hospitalized from the time Marilyn was maybe six. The identity of her father was unknown to Marilyn. She was born to a single mom.
Fair comment. I feel for anyone who grows up in “care” especially back in those times. I find it hard to believe that she could have grown up with “normal “ attitudes to anything real.
@@michelegraham9044 There are audio recordings of MM with her psychiatrist on Netflix - never mind the violation of her privacy- in which he is desperately trying to get to the Norma Jean behind the Marilyn persona. MM was her shield against her desperate unhappiness. She says she only feels safe as Marilyn. Her psychiatrist was frustrated as to how to reach her to help. It is heartbreaking. She was like her character Sugar in Some Like It Hot when Sugar said she always got the fuzzy end of the lollipop.
Despite her emotional immaturity and past traumas, she was not stupid. The men who stayed with her were primarily interested in her status and appearance, which is unfortunate. She struggled to break free from the superficial image that had been constructed around her...
the 2 'Marilyns' in her bio, Shelly Winters writes about being roommates with her, they knew that a certain image (in 'f me shoes') would get them where they wanted to go . . .
I used to work in community theatre in an area of SoCal that takes all theatre seriously, so I got to work with some professionals as well. The dumb blond trope is harder to do that you would think. I’ve seen dozens of hot girls come in and just default to Marilyn because it’s so hard to do it in an authentic way. You can see her acting chops in her serious roles, but where I see it the most is when she’s doing comedy. Comedy is a lot harder than drama because of timing. In my opinion, she was a great actress.
@@sarahhunter1114 And I always say it’s always the brightest actresses who play not too bright women. Another great example is Judy Holiday, who really did have a genius I.Q.
Hi Cheerie! l was napping yesterday, and l guess it was ''Steph the ulter nerd'' who happened to be on at the time. l wasnt really even listening. but ...the man she had on as a guest said '' blah, blah Cheerie Denise ....'and said 'how wonderful your channel, is, your choice of books, and the way you read them!' l agreed! You are a real gem Cheerie! May The Lord keep blessing you and keeping you. GLAD you are schooling the boys! :D Thank you for this lovely channel.
Girl I really enjoy your channel and content and am always following your updates such as this. One thing most ppl don't know is (a) just how horrific Marilyn's childhood was and (b) a greater majority don't know that a traumatized brain is actually medically known as a brain injury. This causes neurons to fire and connect/disconnect differently from a "normalized" brain. Think of it like hitting your head in a car accident. Or a severe concussion. It's amazing frankly she lasted til 36 with her history. I'm also glad you (& the author) are bringing to light everything about the Kennedys and their twisted behaviors. I've done deep dives for decades just being curious & never has this much info been allowed into the light. Thanks and keep going!
Just want to offer words of encouragement regarding your homeschooling. I homeschooled all three of mine. It's challenging but also rewarding. All three of mine are grown, now, and healthy and happy in their chosen careers. Best wishes to you!
Such a sad thing that a woman as beautiful and famous as Marilyn Munroe with the world at her feet would look for some sort of validation, and self-worth world through men, as flawed as JFK, Joe DiMaggio, Auther Miller, and the father of no less than eleven children Robert Kennedy. What on earth did Marilyn think that any of those men could offer her anything other than what she already had? Marilyn Munroe needed to learn how to love and appreciate her own qualities and worth, and not seek it through the fickle attentions of sexual predators, unfaithful husbands, and philanderers. Marilyn set a low bar when it came to men and paid a price for it.
I’m glad you question Marilyn Monroe as a progression of Feminism! Some years ago, Gloria Steinem held up MM as a model of feminism for young women of the 70s to now admire her. I thought it was upside down and backwards, but friends believed it coz it was Gloria saying it. Very recently, Gloria gave Meghan Markle a feminism award, so I know Gloria is screwed up. And all those years, “Glo” was held up as our Feminism Leader! What a joke. I hated her long manicured nails she waved about. Like, “I don’t have to do any housework, I pay other women to do it!” I always thought Steinem was a phony, but had to keep it to myself coz other young women would not tolerate GS’s disrespect. She’s our savior! 🙄
She was a horrible role model! She helped destroy families. No respect for her on any level. Just a woman with psychological issues bent on screwing up the nuclear family.
Spot on! I felt she was such a phony. When she did the "This is what 50 looks like" on her birthday, it was all about her *looks*, not accomplishments or contributions. 🙄
I have to respectfully disagree with you about Marilyn being a bad actress. Yes, she wasn’t exactly Meryl Streep, but she has given solid performances and had shown great potential to be an even greater actress. She actuallly received critical praise for her performance in her last film “The Misfits.”
@@sidneybales9062 I googled it, the lady who narrates the audio book is called Gabra Zackman. I have never heard of her. She has narrated over 400 audio books in 15 years. Too late in the UK to try and hear her voice. 🇬🇧
Poor Marilyn was a hot mess. She was really delusional if she actually thought Jack or Bobby would leave their wives for her. I know other men had done so, but the catholic Kennedys with high political ambitions never would have. (Not that they were especially observant Catholics obviously, but because it would have ‘looked bad’ and affected their voter base.)
Marilyn Monroe was an excellent actress. She was bound by the studio system to be “the bombshell.” Truly, her dramatic roles are excellent: Niagara, Don’t Bother to Knock, The Misfits (my favorite.) Her comedic roles are still unsurpassed to this day. People love to whittle her down to her sex appeal, but she is still a big part of our culture because she was so much more. People are initially called to her movies because of the sex appeal, but they stay because she wasn’t at all what they’d expected. Even her co-stars speak of her enigmatic character, both to men and women.
Homeschool! Cherish the time. I've loved it and found there was actually so much more freedom. Plus one on one learning takes half or a fraction of the time teaching in a classroom does. Your kids are so fortunate.
How could anyone think otherwise, ya know? She walks into these people’s lives and then is all wounded at the failure it is. The man might be great, but as soon as he agrees to step out in his wife, how great is he now?!
God bless you for homeschooling! I would have loved to homeschool my children, and while financially I could have, I was not equipped to do so. I know my shortcomings and that is one of them!! I have a lack of patience and a lack of scheduling skills as well. It would have been a real disservice to my children. I applaud you Cheere, kudos to you beautiful!!! Oh yeah, and by the way, I'm loving this book ❤❤
Please stop saying "she's really pretty"....so condescending... really pretty there are hundreds of millions...she had a lot of wonderful qualities. And she was drop dead georgeous...
Well, the way I look at it she died August 4, 1962 and people are still talking about her and writing books about her! I think she would be happy to know that is if she doesn’t already lol. This was a fantastic episode. I love the way you use the voices. Have a great homeschool day.
honestly both parents: Marilyn's mother was in a psych ward and passed her off to different people and her father was never there. All she had was a picture of a film star and her mother's word that it was her father. When she tried to contact him, she got hung up on.
@@onemysore6120 But Marilyn was born in 1926, seven years after WW I. JFK was two when the Great War ended as he was born in 1917. Actually, those people who were born in the late teens or 1920s and grew up during the Depression and fought in World War II were called the Greatest Generation. The Kennedy’s obviously weren’t affected by the Depression. but both Jack and his older brother Joe, Jr., fought in World War II. Joe, Jr., was killed over the English Channel.
Book recommendation… DIVA by Daisy Goodwin It’s about Maria Callas the opera singer. Some of the characters that enter the book are Jackie Kennedy, her sister Lee, Marilyn Monroe, JFK, RFK, and Aristotle Onassis.
I read somewhere that Marilyn had a high IQ. She owned her own production company (or something of that nature). She moved to New York City to enroll as a student at the Actor’s Studio. “ I don’t want to make money, I just want to be wonderful.” …Marilyn Monroe
You would make a great youth pastor. Just by reading books with them and breaking these types of things down in such a logical way. You are very good at these teachable moments. Common sense that's so rare these days.
@@Anna-Bernadette absolutely! I thought the same. In this day and age when almost anything goes and kids disappear into their devices there is a moral vacuum. Many young people crave guidance and your delivery - so sure and witty - is very appealing, especially when you go ‘off piste’ and riff on moral dilemmas etc.
Many prayers for the homeschooling front. I did it for a year and I about lost my mind. Never again. I don't have the patience to be a teacher in the first place, so I'm sure it will be better for you. On the plus side, it makes scheduling much easier and you have a lot more freedom for vacations etc. Good luck!
Yes unfortunately I think you did judge Marilyn not a bit harshly but VERY harshly… as someone who was orphaned and then abused in foster care and taken advantage of men form a young age because I had no protection I can understand Marilyn latching on to anything she thought was someone loving her. I actually think she did extremely well in her short life. She is infamous still!
She died alone, lonely, and miserable. Ppl need to stop the idolatry of ppl, period. Upholding the life styles that played a part or out right k/lled shouldn't be celebrated. Calling a spade a spade isn't judging, the truth isn't judging either. But all we have to judge one's character are their fruits and actions. Our elders survived and thrived bc they were honest and kept one another accountable and head on straight. Those who cheerlead and get star struck of you go girl, encouraging perilous lifestyle are not friends nor do they love you. I do feel for sorrow and regret for her. But she sadly and stubbornly rebelled /rebuked those who really tried to help her. She played the part and was into illicit s activity with almost anyone and everyone, male or female. Ofc a man will take you for spin when you're offering up a roll in the hay and kinky but take you home to mother, give you his last name or become respected isn't going to happen. They wouldn't have or couldn't have used her had she not allowed it and wanted it herself. She used them too. There's been ppl who've had near death experiences and have seen some famous ppl lost in eternity. That's the saddest thing of all. And a good man, answered the call upon his heart to go see MM and pray with her. Offering redemption and she refused it and said some words I won't repeat. That was her last chsnce and she refused it. So tragic but we can be our own worst enemy and make the adversary's job easier. But one hope.
I never thought Jackie was pretty. She was striking. Her broad face with eyes that were too far apart and flat nose were not the signs of beauty. She looked too much like her father. She projected an image of class. Who would take Marilyn home to mom. As prince Phillip said, you ??? an actress, you don't marry them.
I think your take on Marilyn is very spot on. And good luck with homeschooling. I did it for my youngest who had some LD issues and it is not for the faint of heart. Teaching your own children is very different, for me anyways, than dealing with other people's children. Thanks again for another entertaining episode! ❤
It was a PR stunt for the film. MM wore two underwear because she was told that the skirt would be flying over her head. The NYC street footage (shot at 1 am) never appeared in the film and was never planned to. It was director Silver's idea to publicize his film. The famous columnist Walter Winchell took an unsuspecting DiMaggio (who was told it was a shooting of a simple street scene). Winchell knew he would be sure to get a scandal cut of it for his column. "The breeze came from a large fan under the grate operated by the film's special effects chief. The night - September 15 - was actually quite chilly. But the stunt worked. It became known as "the shot seen around the world". But there was a dark subtext to the comedy. Gathered at that late hour were hundreds of gawkers, almost all men, who catcalled and yelled things like, "Higher! Higher!" as Monroe's dress blew up over her head. For two hours, the men watched from surrounding buildings and from the street. "Unfortunately, one of them was her husband, Joe DiMaggio," Wilder is quoted as saying in his biography, Nobody's Perfect. "And he didn't like what he saw, or what everyone else was seeing." DiMaggio hadn't planned on visiting the set that night, and was waiting for his wife at the St Regis Hotel, where the couple were staying. But columnist Walter Winchell had persuaded him to go. "
It was a PR stunt for the film. MM wore two underwear because she was told that the skirt would be flying over her head. The NYC street footage (shot at 1 am) never appeared in the film and was never planned to. It was director Silver's idea to publicize his film. The famous columnist Walter Winchell took an unsuspecting DiMaggio (who was told it was a shooting of a simple street scene). Winchell knew he would be sure to get a scandal cut of it for his column. "The breeze came from a large fan under the grate operated by the film's special effects chief. The night - September 15 - was actually quite chilly. But the stunt worked. It became known as "the shot seen around the world". But there was a dark subtext to the comedy. Gathered at that late hour were hundreds of gawkers, almost all men, who catcalled and yelled things like, "Higher! Higher!" as Monroe's dress blew up over her head. For two hours, the men watched from surrounding buildings and from the street. "Unfortunately, one of them was her husband, Joe DiMaggio," Wilder is quoted as saying in his biography, Nobody's Perfect. "And he didn't like what he saw, or what everyone else was seeing." DiMaggio hadn't planned on visiting the set that night, and was waiting for his wife at the St Regis Hotel, where the couple were staying. But columnist Walter Winchell had persuaded him to go. "
You can still love her. She was hugely gifted and creative. Her screen persona was a treasure - and it was all her. I don’t know of one artist in any artistic field whose personal life was pretty. These people achieved great things, and deserve to be admired for that.
I haven't seen the films in years but I remember Niagara and Don't Bother to Knock being particularly good performances. She was studying her craft and was serious about improving.
Honestly, the hoo-hah around the skirt-flying-up scene in “The Seven Year Itch” is utterly baffling. She was more covered in that scene than a woman in a 1-piece bathing suit. And it’s not as if she was wearing nothing underneath. Good grief. I’ll never understand what is the big deal.
In regards to Arthur Miller and his daughter, it is known in some therapeutic circles that when a marriage is not going, well, the father and the oldest daughter will often form an unseen, inappropriate bond. This is sometimes known as the surrogate wife position.
Marilyn Monroe was a good actress. To me she is to feminine movie stars what John Wayne is to masculine: good actors with a limited range but excellent & thoroughly enjoyable when they stay in their own lane. What they’re both best at is sizzling on screen in their own persona.
while onset for "the Prince and the Showgirl" with Lawrence Olivier, Miller openly flirted with another woman, who would later become his third wife, while Marilyn was working. Miller truly messed with her psyche, making her feel like nothing and that interfered with her work and her scheduling. She would show up later and later to work because she was having breakdowns, constant doubt that she could perform, and the emotional damage of seeing her HUSBAND toss her aside.
@@lisaleyendekker8305 Plus Olivier was constantly making fun of her and demanding that she stop speaking in her famous little girl breathing voice..So Marilyn was not having a good experience while filming " The Prince and the showgirl" over in England
An interesting character was the TV personality and journalist Dorothy Kilgallen. She allegedly committed suicide in 1965, whilst following leads concerning the Kennedy assassination. Her death was highly suspicious. This may be more in the true crime category, but she was a fascinating woman and pioneer in her field. I dont know if there is a biography of her out there, or one that would stand up to a weekly read, but I thought I'd throw her story out there.
I believe that Marilyn Monroe became what OTHERS wanted her to be. She was used and abused by almost every person in her life and when drugs became a central part of her coping mechanism she was even more malleable for the vultures looking to take advantage of her. I think she was very intelligent and could have been so much more than a $ex thing for flaccid men to drool over. SUGGESTION...I would love for you to review a book about Peter Lawford. He was such a shadowy figure not only in Hollywood (Rat Pack) but also in politics due to his marriage to a Kennedy. I feel like he was Hollywood's version of Lord Mountbatten...a puppeteer of sorts manipulating powerful people and reaping rewards for themselves. Excellent chapter today! ❤❤❤
Joe knew he was marrying the iconic Marilyn Monroe! The fact that he thought she was going to just be resigned to being his little housewife is ridiculous! Although he treated her terribly as well . He was one of the few people she could count on. He got her out of the mental institution when Norman mailer put her there. He also, arranged and paid for her funeral. Making sure that the people that were truly toxic to Marilyn were not allowed at her funeral. Sad that these people she loved wanted her for their own selfish reasons!
The more i read the book , I find it hard to discern what is actually known and what is the author's creative writing. She says as much in the forward. The term "gay "was not used in 1950's. It is important to use the vernacular of the 1950's.
I am also raising children in this crazy culture. I admire you so much, and I identify with your attitudes towards education also! Good for you for homeschooling! Good for you for finding and executing what your children need. Loving this channel.
Denise, I've shared on here that I suffer with mental illness. The part people don't understand about mental illness is that the brain is an organ just like your kidney for example. When your kidney is diseased the toxins in your system aren't removed. It causes a faulty filter. So, when your brain is diseased it causes faulty thinking. Couple that with sexual abuse at an early age there will be huge issues with sexuality. This is going to produce someone like Marilyn. Sex is not only a source of pleasure, it is a source of acceptance, of being wanted and sadly, it is equated with love. She made bad decisions because she was mentally ill. She is a tragic figure. She was incapable of making better decisions. Until the day she died, she never could love herself. A principled person like yourself can easily see how ridiculous her thinking was... but the sickness is real. And when it comes to human behavior we find it hard to separate the behavior from the principles of right and wrong. She had no role models as a child so at no point will she have a point of reference as to right and wrong. Its all so ugly. As always, thank you for sharing the books and your insight. You are beautiful.
@@elizabethcloutman8913 Thank you. I almost didn't post it because people have a hard time with the concept of people not having control of their behavior. To be honest I knew something was wrong when I would completely and out of the blue do something that was completely against my beliefs and morals. I would beat myself up then I finally hit a wall with suicidal ideations, was hospitalized and been trying to recover ever since. That's how I know the sickness is real. It's also embarrassing.
@rebeccagilstrap3507. Don't be embarrassed. Everyone is flawed, and has struggles. It takes great courage and character to be honest about what you're describing. I hope things go the way you need them to, and that the worst is behind.
@@rebeccagilstrap3507 The wonderful Vivian Leigh had the same struggles. Bless you. People can be so judgmental. You are very brave and may understand yourself far better than so called “normal” people.
@@elizabethcloutman8913 Girl! You have no idea how many "normal" people I've encountered who treat others horribly, they can't handle their own emotions and they talk about other people like their lower than dirt. I don't say anything but I think to myself "they make medication for people like you" and I contemplate slipping my psychiatrist's card in their purses. 🤣🤣🤣
I can't imagine what RUclips is talking about either. I think you were quite restrained talking about her very disfunctional life. Love your commentary!
Would love to listen to a bio on Marilyn Monroe! Yes, she was no saint, but I think she had some wonderful qualities. For instance her friendship with Ella Fitzgerald was beautiful. I also find her acting to be completely captivating, I think she was incredibly talented, but not given a chance to show everything she had to offer. P.S. I would also love to hear a bio about Fitzgerald. That woman’s voice is to die for and her strength in the face of horrific racism is an inspiration for everyone.
You're wrong about MM as an actress. Vladimir Nabokov thought she was a wonderful actress. See two movies: Bus Stop and The Misfits, and I think you'll change your view of her talent. She lacked all discipline, however, so she couldn't have been a theater actress.
Don’t worry, Cheere! My father was a botany professor and the dean of the biology department, and even he said he didn’t know if he’d be able to homeschool us kids! It’s an entirely different animal to homeschool one’s own children! However, I think you’ll do brilliantly!
Marilyn was actually not that bad an actress...I've seen her in Niagara and also The Asphalt Jungle. She really wasn't that bad. In my opinion she wasn't great when she played the dumb blond. I do however think it is really sad when your worst nightmare was that you are/are perceived by others as merely a pretty but empty vessel - and here, 62 years after your death that's what most people say and think of you "yeah she was pretty, but that's all she was - if you knock on her she'll probably ring hollow - no intelect, no emotion, no worth" Although she had free agency and she made REALLY bad choices she does get my sympathy in someways unlike others in this book, like Rose.
It was really sad because most of the people in Marilyn’s life used her! John Kennedy, the rat pack would sleep with her and and pass her around! She was one of many victims!😢
Peter Lawford…now that’s a biography that was eye opening. My mom used to talk about Marilyn and other stars and she always said what a pig Lawford was, only strengthened by reading The story of Peter Lawford.
@@len6871 I wish she was still alive so I could ask more questions. She lived in SoCal in the late 50’s to mid 60’s. She worked in bars and restaurants. Her and my dad also frequented Reno when the Brat Pack was there, also Lawford adjacent. I will say Lawford had a horrible childhood but went on to be both a perpetual victim and abuser.
I homeschool; and you are going to love it! Especially with your knowledge of the classroom. I love it- the older they get, the better:)❤❤ Well wishes 🔆
Excerpt from 1916 civic book “Patience, sympathy, duty, service, obedience, honesty, truthfulness, courage, fortitude, industry, sacrifice, forgiveness, purity,-are not all of these the virtues of a righteous home? Do all children receive sufficient training in these virtues in their home? The first duty of the school is to supplement the work of the home in developing in the children the habits and attitudes which underlie the character of a true citizen. Children not reared in a spirit of reverence for the home the institution that brought them into existence-are but poorly equipped to enter into the broader relationships of life in which the home is but a unit."
SO WITTY! I’ve only been a subscriber for a couple months 29:46 Cheere, but already I love your witticisms when you are commenting AND also the way you always seem to nail the correct “vibe” of the quotes of the characters in the book, which isn’t all that easy to get right sometimes. You seem to accomplish that, at least to me, every time. It’s the personality and authenticity in YOU, that makes your readings, at least to me, bring to life the mood that the author is trying to portray, recreate, etc. that set you apart. This isn’t a puff piece from me to you. I’ve always loved all things Kennedy right or wrong. I read Jim Garrison’s book ON THE TRAIL OF ASSASSINS when I was in high school and eventually came to devour all things Kennedy, warts in all. Good luck with the kiddos school. I know how hard it is. Finally was able to place my one and only daughter in the only private school in Nacogdoches, Tx that went all the way through high school. Her graduating class of 2017 was 7 children. Regents Academy in Nacogdoches challenged and elevated her to achieve a big enough scholarship to Boston University(hard to send her to the bastion of liberalism 😢), but she graduated from BU and has returned back to Austin(at least she’s back in Texas) and I told her about your channel. Sorry so long but thanks so much!
I disagree on her not being a good actress. I actually thought she was a very good comedian and I was surprised that her dancing I thought it was very good. I thought she was beautiful but looked more beautiful when she was natural.
@@sidneybales9062 And a real lack of confidence. She would often freak out and panic in front of the camera. Billy Wilder said it was maddening, it when she finally achieved that good take, it was worth it.
Good luck with the home schooling! If I had school age children I would DEFINITELY be home schooling them because of how things are today...another school shooting yesterday...so so sad! Something has to be done I just don't know WHAT...MY heart breaks each time another one happens...
I like your channel and commentary. You are intelligent and do a great job. Marilyn was a very broken person and she didn't get the credit how intelligent she was. I also credit her acting. Just because she made some horrible and sad decisions doesn't make her her a ditz. And I think she was gorgeous. There was something more about her that makes one love her. I would have loved to be friends with her. I'm so sorry her life ended so tragically.
You’ve got the Home School thing down, Cheere!! You have great patience and insight! Good luck, anyway!!🙏🏻 In future I would love more details about Jackie:)
Cheere, family comes first. Always. We'll be here when you have a video ready, whenever that is. I hope your daughter enjoys her new school and that home schooling isn't going to be awful for you. I've a few friends who did it, one was a nursing professor, and turned out to be the best thing they did. Instead of seven years of high school (ages 11/12 to 18) and two sets of exams, GCSEs at 16 and A Levels at 18 ready for uni application, her two boys were uni ready before 17, so they all travelled together, the boys travelled before going to uni. One wanted to be a doctor and the other a lawyer. They were only going to do it for a year or two while they found a school for the boys, but they all loved it, and it gave them time to do sport and social things as their day was shorter than school. Either way, I hope it's fun for you all. ❤🇬🇧
![Eminem - Fuel (Shady Edition) feat. Westside Boogie & GRIP [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k1OquBida9s/mqdefault.jpg)
How twisted this whole thing is. It’s like they’re playing with fire and never expect to get burned. Makes me love my modest little life.
An anecdote that I always admired about Marilyn, that she was a massive fan of Ella Fitzgerald. Due to racism many clubs and venues would not allow Ella Fitzgerald to perform. Until Marilyn Monroe found out and would call the owners, in doing so she would sit in the front row while Ella Fitzgerald performed. This act broke many barriers, Marilyn was ahead of the times in many ways.
Marilyn understood exclusion as a little girl who experienced this outsider status with her mentally ill mother.
@@carrie227 and Ella wasn't the only person she stood up for 😍 I love that about her. She just couldn't stand it if someone was treated badly 😢
@@MarianneOz yes 🩵 it's like her heart broke again when she came across exclusion and mistreatment.
You are who you protect
The Kennedy's moral compass was truly broken!
Correct but also an understatement! They were are on another level.
They were rank and low class!
They never had one.
@@BeeLane-qr9fn and talk about the generational trauma it all caused!
It was non-existent. They didn’t know what a moral compass was.
Marlyn was an actress following what the director wants! She was doing her job! And Joe beat the hell out of her that night! That was confirmed by her hairstylist and makeup artist! They had to cover all the bruises 😢
We don’t know what exactly happened between them. We do know the results. She wasn’t an innocent in any of it.
So she was bea ten up and guilty of.....what?provoking him? Its not a valid defence, thank heaven, any more @@MrsGator7
Insignificance with Theresa Russell portraying MM. Wonderful movie.
Cheere, I am sure you and your boys will look back on their home schooling with fond affection. Be proud and confident that you have put their educational needs first. You are equipped and have the qualifications to do it.
Dear Norma Jean. I can only surmise that her intellect and maturity stopped developing at the height of her childhood abuse. I'm sure her want to be an intellectual equal, among her peers, was a desire that if the 'guardian's' in her life had invested the same amount of time in her education and self worth, as they did in abusing and neglecting her, she could have lived up to her dreams. I could say a lot was to blame because it was the 50s/60s, but I know nothing has improved as far as child abuse is concerned. However, the 60s was a time of the sexual 'revolution', an era when men could openly objectify women and encourage them to be become publicly uninhibited. There's so much more to that topic, but I really don't want to go there.
I really do appreciate you're honesty and ability to continue reevaluating your perspective of people.
🕊🙏🕯🇦🇺
he was fuming, smoke outta the ears, seeing his new bride in that situation, there were many witnesses to that
They were both "created"... imagine the letdown of knowing them in real life. Must be where that saying: 'Never meet your celebrity crush' comes from
How true.
funny how 'heroes' has morphed into 'celebrity crush' but, yeah
Whereas I am wondering if Jack was anything else than the image created to create the Kennedys in the first place.
Marilyn WAS a successful actress. Was Jack even a politician - or just a bombshell persona?
Marilyn was a great comic actress and was developing as a serious actress at the time of her death. I’m surprised anyone would call her a bad actress.
Agreed
Yes, spot on!
@@k8schmate I think bc part of being great is not letting the addiction get to interfere in her work. She'd call in late or no show
Poor Norma Jean was so incredibly damaged, just don't think anyone could have helped her, especially after she became Marilyn in incredibly toxic Hollywood. II've known people very well who've been that damaged and abused in childhood and there's no completely recovering from it. Even with extensive therapy and medication.
@@sharonsmith583 and some just prey upon that fragilty
Your kids are THE most important job you have .. we are big people and can wait for your time. 🤗
Hello Beautiful Lady! I'm so glad that you posted something again. I wanted to email you with some exciting news yesterday but I couldn't find your address. (I'm a 62 year old woman with the technological expertise of a 90 year old!!!). I felt as though I had a brush with royalty yesterday. I was watching Stef The Alter Nerd and she had DC Lawyer John Witherspoon on as a guest. After they finished their discussion, John made a shout out to two of his favorite content creators. The first one was Brittany from Royal News Network. I felt like Buddy from Elf saying "I KNOW her!" as I am one of her followers! Then lo and behold, the second name was revealed. It was Cheere Denise!!! You rate way up there in my top favorites Cheere! I was so excited to hear your name and wanted to share my news with you. Maybe you already know but if you don't, I just had to share it with you. Congratulations! I hope you get the warm fuzzies when you learn this. I could listen to your voice reading the phone book and I'm sure that you could make me laugh with your repertoire of voices! You Go Girl!!!
MM allegedly had an IQ of 165, 5 points above that of Albert Einstein.
The image of MM the film star was a studio construct deliberately moulded into the embodiment of every male fantasy. She became the blank screen for everyone - men and women - to project their fantasies onto.
If you see pictures of her before she got her studio make-over she was indeed wholesome and natural with a beguiling innocence about her. The archetypal dumb blonde was literally typecast and under immense pressure to maintain the illusion when in fact beneath that exterior was a very intelligent and complex woman. She was also a great actress within the confines of the roles she was offered - ‘Some Like it Hot’ with Jack Lemon and Tony Curtis was a classic of its time, as was her partnership with Jane Russell in ‘Gentlemen Prefer Blondes’.
I sat through many MM all-nighters at fringe cinemas - her worshippers were like a cult and her undoing was the dynamics of the struggle to come to terms with the fact that every man who approached her wanted the reflected glory of bagging the world’s biggest sex symbol but then couldn’t handle the disappointment when the real MM ‘off-screen’ version of her was revealed to be really just like any other woman, vulnerable, complex and nuanced with very real needs of her own.
A background of trauma and abandonment leaves a scratch through a person’s psyche much like a needle on a vinyl record and so the pattern of being used and abused by men becomes deeply entrenched.
Well worded
I never thought she was a dummy but no way she was that bright. Very few people are.
I'm not a MM fan, I understand the fascination by men but I have never been able to see her beauty. Attractive perhaps but not a true beauty. It was her ability to play up her sensuality that made men fall for her. I believe that 165 IQ was a yarn spun by others just to enhance the mystique.
well said
I have heard that MM and JR were close friends off screen. There is a story that Jane was devout Christian and led bible studies. Jane said,”I can introduce you to Jesus.” Marilyn said,”and I can introduce you to Freud.”
Speaking as a homeschool mother of now-grown children, you will do great, Cheere! ❤👩👦👦📖✏️😊
I love the story where Marilyn rang Jackie and told her Jack was leaving her and the kids for Marilyn.
Jackie responded with well that’s just fine Marilyn, you go to all the White House state dinners and live in the White House and go on the campaign trail….. Marilyn didn’t like that response one bit 😂😂
That would have really killed Marilyn. Inside and out. All the woman he slept with during the whole house days.
That would have destroyed JFK's campaign
What a B-! Imagine the entitlement🤦🏼♀️
Well, Jackie was a snot
@@nonyabiz550I’d be snotty too, too the side-piece
I think Roger Ebert said that Marilyn Monroe stole every scene she was ever in. I think Marilyn was a good actress.
Marilyn Monroe was an excellent actress. She was bound by the studio system to be “the bombshell.” Truly, her dramatic roles are excellent: Niagara, Don’t Bother to Knock, The Misfits (my favorite.) Her comedic roles are still unsurpassed to this day. People love to whittle her down to her sex appeal, but she is still a big part of our culture because she was so much more.
People are initially called to her movies because of the sex appeal, but they stay because she wasn’t at all what they’d expected. Even her co-stars speak of her enigmatic character, both to men and women.
@@MummyBrown Thank you for a great comment.
I think MM was beautiful and a very good comic actress. You're never playing yourself on screen. She's usually undervalued because she made acting look easy.
Ferdinand, I agree with you!
In person, she glowed…sparkled. Like no one earthly. Hard to explain but completely beautiful.
Symmetry…any face that is symmetrical (most are not), causes others to stare at their beauty
@@Vichyfarm Yes you’re right. However, in men, the opposite can be true. Lena Horne was supposed to have the “ perfect “ facial measurements. I really don’t think any actress can compare with Marilyn’s beauty from head to toe.
@@Msfifisquarepantz Perhaps Grace Kelly.
it was a blessing and a curse . . . Capote's "A Beautiful Child" in Music for Chameleons captures that [have mentioned that a few times now, and i'll probably reread it tonight, lol, but they were friends and he captured how she dealt a bit, turned 'it' off and on [or used the dimmer;)]]
@@zellipa I’m sure you know Truman wanted Marilyn to star as Holly Golightly. Thank you for letting me know about Music for Chameleons! I’ve read some Capote, but not all.
Marilyn Monroe was indeed a talented actress and entertainer, and despite her faults and private indiscretions, she wasn't just a pretty face.
who has the camera loved more? [just on top, agree!]
I agree completely! People love her or they hate her. I question if the people that hate her ever truly give her a chance without expectations. Niagara, Don’t Bother to Knock, and The Misfits, my all time fave, are amazing.
Most celebrities do not take those Marriage Vows seriously.
nor do many civilians . . . 'starter marriages' and whatnot
Marilyn *was* very bright.
Abused children, particularly women, usually seek to be abused in relationships in adulthood. This is almost always a subconscious response.
Why? If the abuse began at a formative age, adults are attracted to what they knew as children, even if it was awful.
❤
That explains so much about the repetition of why she was attracted to personal abuse.
THIS. As someone that maintains CPTSD, I still don’t understand why so many people still have such a cruel view of people that had struggles such as this. So much of your experience plays into how you live your adulthood, therapy or not. All of what you stated is psychology 101.
Always heard about this relationship between Jack Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe but this is the first time I've heard anyone go into greater detail on it. And i think it's gross when siblings, or worse yet, father and son, have sexual relationships with the same woman.
"I'm as human as the next man." "Dad, I WAS the next man." Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
Agreed discusting.
I have been a fan of Marilyn since I was a teenager. I am now 50. I have watched all of her movies many or too many times. I simply wanted to respectfully say that she might have made bad movies, but there are several performances of hers that are incredible. She was a great actress when given the right rôle. It is sad that the general comment about her is that she was bad.
Yes, I've also commented my opinion about this.
I really liked her in Niagara, I did not like all her dum blond roles although Gentlemen Prefer Blonds are not the worst.
@@annelikriek6294 Niagara for sure, she is so evil in it! Bus Stop and The Misfits and Don't Bother to Knock are my favourites for serious roles, but I have to say that for a good laugh, I always liked The Seven Year Itch, Some Like it Hot and How to Marry a Millionaire. I do agree with Cheeree though, when it comes to her making bad life decisions and people using the classic "difficult childhood" reason to excuse them.
@@sandrafledglingmixologista2221 o yes, she made really bad choices! Married men, while you are married...not even close to a good idea.
Actually, it takes a lot of talent to play the dumb blonde successfully.
Niagara has always felt like a Hitchcock movie to me. She was amazing in it. Don’t Bother to Knock is along the same level of greatness, but The Misfits will always have my heart.
At times, I don’t think you take the timeframe into your thought process. During the 50’s and earlier, women were who their husbands were. A woman’s identity was of her husband so marrying a smart man would make you appear smarter. I understand that way of thinking. So much has changed for women over the past several decades that younger people don’t realize.
Exactly. Young people can't comprehend how the world was 30 years before they were born. They are judging people of the past by how things are today.
Thank you for pointing this out!! So true.
Thank you for letting us know about your schedule but don’t stress, I think the people that love your channel understand. Appreciate you letting us know. 😊
Years ago I read a great biography about Marilyn & if someone hadn’t stolen it from me I could tell you the author. If I’m not mistaken it was written with a lot of help from her almost lifelong confidante, it was excellent. Marilyn was a lot smarter than she was given credit for, she stood up for equality back when it wasn’t exactly kosher, she owned her own production company way before women were respected to own businesses. I highly suggest this book, I’m going to see if there’s some chance in hell that I can recognize the cover & report back.
Norman Mailer's Marilyn?
Wow! Are you on some kind of marathon posting!? Seems like between the Kennedy’s and the Mountbatten’s I get to watch you every day! Really hope no one in the comments thinks I’m complaining! This the best week of my life! Thank you so much!❤😂
Marilyn was a better actress than you give her credit for. Also, the skirt flying up was for a MOVIE!
It was inappropriate. Boundaries are needed in movies. What was that movie sene portraying?
Yes, she wasn't that bad. I enjoyed her in Niagara.
@@annelikriek6294i thought she gave a good performance in Niagra
Honestly! What an innocently pleas urable sensation anyhow to stand over a warm grate. Poor Joe. You dont have to be smart to whack a ball with a piece of wood. and his reaction to her c ontinuing to be the person he married proved it.
@@countessAugusta 7 Year itch showed her brilliant comedic timing! Same in “How to marry a millionaire”
Brilliant performance still relevant! So was set to produce and star in Shakespeare’s plays to film scripts
In defensive Marilyn, how can any orphan truly understand the concept that anyone “belongs” to someone else.
Love it
Not an orphan, but the daughter of a seriously mentally ill mother who needed to be hospitalized from the time Marilyn was maybe six. The identity of her father was unknown to Marilyn. She was born to a single mom.
Fair comment. I feel for anyone who grows up in “care” especially back in those times.
I find it hard to believe that she could have grown up with “normal “ attitudes to anything real.
@@michelegraham9044 There are audio recordings of MM with her psychiatrist on Netflix - never mind the violation of her privacy- in which he is desperately trying to get to the Norma Jean behind the Marilyn persona. MM was her shield against her desperate unhappiness. She says she only feels safe as Marilyn. Her psychiatrist was frustrated as to how to reach her to help. It is heartbreaking. She was like her character Sugar in Some Like It Hot when Sugar said she always got the fuzzy end of the lollipop.
@@elizabethcloutman8913 and abbandoned in an orpehnage. yes she was an orpahn.
Despite her emotional immaturity and past traumas, she was not stupid. The men who stayed with her were primarily interested in her status and appearance, which is unfortunate. She struggled to break free from the superficial image that had been constructed around her...
the 2 'Marilyns'
in her bio, Shelly Winters writes about being roommates with her, they knew that a certain image (in 'f me shoes') would get them where they wanted to go . . .
I used to work in community theatre in an area of SoCal that takes all theatre seriously, so I got to work with some professionals as well.
The dumb blond trope is harder to do that you would think. I’ve seen dozens of hot girls come in and just default to Marilyn because it’s so hard to do it in an authentic way. You can see her acting chops in her serious roles, but where I see it the most is when she’s doing comedy. Comedy is a lot harder than drama because of timing. In my opinion, she was a great actress.
I agree
@@sarahhunter1114 And I always say it’s always the brightest actresses who play not too bright women. Another great example is Judy Holiday, who really did have a genius I.Q.
@@elizabethcloutman8913 exactly. It takes brains to have understanding for that kind of character rather than mocking a “dumb” person.
Marilyn was a good comic actress. She held her own with Bette Davis and George Sanders with her few lines in "All About Eve."
Hi Cheerie! l was napping yesterday, and l guess it was ''Steph the ulter nerd'' who happened to be on at the time. l wasnt really even listening. but ...the man she had on as a guest said '' blah, blah Cheerie Denise ....'and said 'how wonderful your channel, is, your choice of books, and the way you read them!' l agreed! You are a real gem Cheerie! May The Lord keep blessing you and keeping you. GLAD you are schooling the boys! :D Thank you for this lovely channel.
Wow!!! That’s always awesome to hear the channel is well received! Thank you for passing on the word!
@cheeredenise It was Stef the Alter Nerd in her video yesterday about Meghan Markle's "Trademaek Reject" situation.
I agree!! She’s awesome!!
@@cheeredenise ~ You're welcome Cheere. :D
Girl I really enjoy your channel and content and am always following your updates such as this. One thing most ppl don't know is (a) just how horrific Marilyn's childhood was and (b) a greater majority don't know that a traumatized brain is actually medically known as a brain injury. This causes neurons to fire and connect/disconnect differently from a "normalized" brain. Think of it like hitting your head in a car accident. Or a severe concussion. It's amazing frankly she lasted til 36 with her history. I'm also glad you (& the author) are bringing to light everything about the Kennedys and their twisted behaviors. I've done deep dives for decades just being curious & never has this much info been allowed into the light. Thanks and keep going!
childhood ptsd, cptsd?
Just want to offer words of encouragement regarding your homeschooling. I homeschooled all three of mine. It's challenging but also rewarding. All three of mine are grown, now, and healthy and happy in their chosen careers. Best wishes to you!
Such a sad thing that a woman as beautiful and famous as Marilyn Munroe with the world at her feet would look for some sort of validation, and self-worth world through men, as flawed as JFK, Joe DiMaggio, Auther Miller, and the father of no less than eleven children Robert Kennedy. What on earth did Marilyn think that any of those men could offer her anything other than what she already had? Marilyn Munroe needed to learn how to love and appreciate her own qualities and worth, and not seek it through the fickle attentions of sexual predators, unfaithful husbands, and philanderers. Marilyn set a low bar when it came to men and paid a price for it.
@@patriciaclarke-g1i She was sexually abused as a child and clearly suffered from mental illness.
I’m glad you question Marilyn Monroe as a progression of Feminism! Some years ago, Gloria Steinem held up MM as a model of feminism for young women of the 70s to now admire her. I thought it was upside down and backwards, but friends believed it coz it was Gloria saying it. Very recently, Gloria gave Meghan Markle a feminism award, so I know Gloria is screwed up. And all those years, “Glo” was held up as our Feminism Leader! What a joke. I hated her long manicured nails she waved about. Like, “I don’t have to do any housework, I pay other women to do it!” I always thought Steinem was a phony, but had to keep it to myself coz other young women would not tolerate GS’s disrespect. She’s our savior! 🙄
@deth-stroke…. Amen, sister! I totally agree.
She was a horrible role model! She helped destroy families. No respect for her on any level. Just a woman with psychological issues bent on screwing up the nuclear family.
Spot on! I felt she was such a phony. When she did the "This is what 50 looks like" on her birthday, it was all about her *looks*, not accomplishments or contributions. 🙄
I have to respectfully disagree with you about Marilyn being a bad actress. Yes, she wasn’t exactly Meryl Streep, but she has given solid performances and had shown great potential to be an even greater actress. She actuallly received critical praise for her performance in her last film “The Misfits.”
I’m not a fan of audiobooks, but I love watching your book reads. I’ve been hooked on the mount battens and ask not.
The woman who reads the book for audiobooks has a voice that is nails on a chalkboard.
@@sidneybales9062 I wonder who that is?
@@hilaryjohns4049 I don't know. They tell you at the beginning, but it isn't the author.
@@sidneybales9062 I googled it, the lady who narrates the audio book is called Gabra Zackman. I have never heard of her. She has narrated over 400 audio books in 15 years. Too late in the UK to try and hear her voice. 🇬🇧
I really like Marilyn, she was a good comic actress and I don't believe she's dumb .
Mailer's biography is good. Capote's "A Beautiful Child" in Music for Chameleons is just, idk, a lovely share
she was something, for sure
@@user-gs3vn2yr1x me neither
Poor Marilyn was a hot mess. She was really delusional if she actually thought Jack or Bobby would leave their wives for her. I know other men had done so, but the catholic Kennedys with high political ambitions never would have. (Not that they were especially observant Catholics obviously, but because it would have ‘looked bad’ and affected their voter base.)
I homeschooled my children for awhile. I loved it. I enjoyed my children
How hurtful it must of been for Marilyn to find her husband’s book that he had written such horrible things. I bet he thought he was just wonderful.
Marilyn Monroe was an excellent actress. She was bound by the studio system to be “the bombshell.” Truly, her dramatic roles are excellent: Niagara, Don’t Bother to Knock, The Misfits (my favorite.) Her comedic roles are still unsurpassed to this day. People love to whittle her down to her sex appeal, but she is still a big part of our culture because she was so much more.
People are initially called to her movies because of the sex appeal, but they stay because she wasn’t at all what they’d expected. Even her co-stars speak of her enigmatic character, both to men and women.
Homeschool! Cherish the time. I've loved it and found there was actually so much more freedom. Plus one on one learning takes half or a fraction of the time teaching in a classroom does. Your kids are so fortunate.
I kno this isn’t popular but Marilyn is responsible for getting involved with a married man. Gonna bite ya!
How could anyone think otherwise, ya know? She walks into these people’s lives and then is all wounded at the failure it is. The man might be great, but as soon as he agrees to step out in his wife, how great is he now?!
RFK & Ethel had 11 kids.
God bless you for homeschooling! I would have loved to homeschool my children, and while financially I could have, I was not equipped to do so. I know my shortcomings and that is one of them!! I have a lack of patience and a lack of scheduling skills as well. It would have been a real disservice to my children. I applaud you Cheere, kudos to you beautiful!!! Oh yeah, and by the way, I'm loving this book ❤❤
Please stop saying "she's really pretty"....so condescending... really pretty there are hundreds of millions...she had a lot of wonderful qualities. And she was drop dead georgeous...
What a condescending way to respond to a difference of opinion. How interesting….
Love, love, love…when my notification rings!
I was listening to stef the alter nerd this morning. Her guest yesterday, was a lawyer out of DC, gave you a shout out.
Marilyn was a wonderful actress and person. What happened to her was sad.
Well, the way I look at it she died August 4, 1962 and people are still talking about her and writing books about her! I think she would be happy to know that is if she doesn’t already lol. This was a fantastic episode. I love the way you use the voices. Have a great homeschool day.
She passed August 5th 1962
@@trudyramgren8817Well Google it. Because I was 13 that day and my mom told me about it before the paper came. At any rate that wasn’t my point .
I'm hooked on this series!
JFK & Marilyn had daddy issues. That’s all they had in common.
And mummy issues particularly JFK.
honestly both parents: Marilyn's mother was in a psych ward and passed her off to different people and her father was never there. All she had was a picture of a film star and her mother's word that it was her father. When she tried to contact him, she got hung up on.
@@infinityinfinity2253 True True. I think the 2 world wars messed things up for this generation…
@@onemysore6120 But Marilyn was born in 1926, seven years after WW I. JFK was two when the Great War ended as he was born in 1917. Actually, those people who were born in the late teens or 1920s and grew up during the Depression and fought in World War II were called the Greatest Generation. The Kennedy’s obviously weren’t affected by the Depression. but both Jack and his older brother Joe, Jr., fought in World War II. Joe, Jr., was killed over the English Channel.
Same birth signs - Gemini.
And one always hears about the arrogance of women thinking they can change men. Men can be blinded by the same delusion.
Book recommendation…
DIVA by Daisy Goodwin
It’s about Maria Callas the opera singer. Some of the characters that enter the book are Jackie Kennedy, her sister Lee, Marilyn Monroe, JFK, RFK, and Aristotle Onassis.
I read somewhere that Marilyn had a high IQ. She owned her own production company (or something of that nature). She moved to New York City to enroll as a student at the Actor’s Studio.
“ I don’t want to make money, I just want to be wonderful.” …Marilyn Monroe
You would make a great youth pastor. Just by reading books with them and breaking these types of things down in such a logical way. You are very good at these teachable moments. Common sense that's so rare these days.
@@Anna-Bernadette absolutely! I thought the same. In this day and age when almost anything goes and kids disappear into their devices there is a moral vacuum. Many young people crave guidance and your delivery - so sure and witty - is very appealing, especially when you go ‘off piste’ and riff on moral dilemmas etc.
Many prayers for the homeschooling front. I did it for a year and I about lost my mind. Never again. I don't have the patience to be a teacher in the first place, so I'm sure it will be better for you. On the plus side, it makes scheduling much easier and you have a lot more freedom for vacations etc. Good luck!
Yes unfortunately I think you did judge Marilyn not a bit harshly but VERY harshly… as someone who was orphaned and then abused in foster care and taken advantage of men form a young age because I had no protection I can understand Marilyn latching on to anything she thought was someone loving her. I actually think she did extremely well in her short life. She is infamous still!
She died alone, lonely, and miserable. Ppl need to stop the idolatry of ppl, period. Upholding the life styles that played a part or out right k/lled shouldn't be celebrated. Calling a spade a spade isn't judging, the truth isn't judging either. But all we have to judge one's character are their fruits and actions.
Our elders survived and thrived bc they were honest and kept one another accountable and head on straight.
Those who cheerlead and get star struck of you go girl, encouraging perilous lifestyle are not friends nor do they love you.
I do feel for sorrow and regret for her. But she sadly and stubbornly rebelled /rebuked those who really tried to help her.
She played the part and was into illicit s activity with almost anyone and everyone, male or female. Ofc a man will take you for spin when you're offering up a roll in the hay and kinky but take you home to mother, give you his last name or become respected isn't going to happen. They wouldn't have or couldn't have used her had she not allowed it and wanted it herself. She used them too.
There's been ppl who've had near death experiences and have seen some famous ppl lost in eternity. That's the saddest thing of all. And a good man, answered the call upon his heart to go see MM and pray with her. Offering redemption and she refused it and said some words I won't repeat. That was her last chsnce and she refused it. So tragic but we can be our own worst enemy and make the adversary's job easier. But one hope.
I never thought Jackie was pretty. She was striking. Her broad face with eyes that were too far apart and flat nose were not the signs of beauty. She looked too much like her father. She projected an image of class. Who would take Marilyn home to mom. As prince Phillip said, you ??? an actress, you don't marry them.
Marilyn wrote an autobiography (unfinished, but still published), entitled, “My Story.” It’s an interesting read!
I think your take on Marilyn is very spot on. And good luck with homeschooling. I did it for my youngest who had some LD issues and it is not for the faint of heart. Teaching your own children is very different, for me anyways, than dealing with other people's children. Thanks again for another entertaining episode! ❤
How did JFK have time for all this nonsense?
That’s actually a good question.
Marilyn had to do that scene and even put on double panties. The director kept reshooting
It was a PR stunt for the film. MM wore two underwear because she was told that the skirt would be flying over her head. The NYC street footage (shot at 1 am) never appeared in the film and was never planned to. It was director Silver's idea to publicize his film. The famous columnist Walter Winchell took an unsuspecting DiMaggio (who was told it was a shooting of a simple street scene). Winchell knew he would be sure to get a scandal cut of it for his column.
"The breeze came from a large fan under the grate operated by the film's special effects chief. The night - September 15 - was actually quite chilly. But the stunt worked. It became known as "the shot seen around the world".
But there was a dark subtext to the comedy. Gathered at that late hour were hundreds of gawkers, almost all men, who catcalled and yelled things like, "Higher! Higher!" as Monroe's dress blew up over her head. For two hours, the men watched from surrounding buildings and from the street.
"Unfortunately, one of them was her husband, Joe DiMaggio," Wilder is quoted as saying in his biography, Nobody's Perfect. "And he didn't like what he saw, or what everyone else was seeing."
DiMaggio hadn't planned on visiting the set that night, and was waiting for his wife at the St Regis Hotel, where the couple were staying. But columnist Walter Winchell had persuaded him to go. "
It was a PR stunt for the film. MM wore two underwear because she was told that the skirt would be flying over her head. The NYC street footage (shot at 1 am) never appeared in the film and was never planned to. It was director Silver's idea to publicize his film. The famous columnist Walter Winchell took an unsuspecting DiMaggio (who was told it was a shooting of a simple street scene). Winchell knew he would be sure to get a scandal cut of it for his column.
"The breeze came from a large fan under the grate operated by the film's special effects chief. The night - September 15 - was actually quite chilly. But the stunt worked. It became known as "the shot seen around the world".
But there was a dark subtext to the comedy. Gathered at that late hour were hundreds of gawkers, almost all men, who catcalled and yelled things like, "Higher! Higher!" as Monroe's dress blew up over her head. For two hours, the men watched from surrounding buildings and from the street.
"Unfortunately, one of them was her husband, Joe DiMaggio," Wilder is quoted as saying in his biography, Nobody's Perfect. "And he didn't like what he saw, or what everyone else was seeing."
DiMaggio hadn't planned on visiting the set that night, and was waiting for his wife at the St Regis Hotel, where the couple were staying. But columnist Walter Winchell had persuaded him to go. "
3, 2, 1… This is gonna hurt so much! I do love Marilyn! ❤
I hear you.
You can still love her. She was hugely gifted and creative. Her screen persona was a treasure - and it was all her. I don’t know of one artist in any artistic field whose personal life was pretty. These people achieved great things, and deserve to be admired for that.
I haven't seen the films in years but I remember Niagara and Don't Bother to Knock being particularly good performances. She was studying her craft and was serious about improving.
I can’t imagine that you’d be so dismissive of her acting chops if you’d watched Bud Stop or Niagara.
Honestly, the hoo-hah around the skirt-flying-up scene in “The Seven Year Itch” is utterly baffling. She was more covered in that scene than a woman in a 1-piece bathing suit. And it’s not as if she was wearing nothing underneath. Good grief. I’ll never understand what is the big deal.
@@christinepaige2575 I agree. The mid-1950s and movies were far more conservative.
In regards to Arthur Miller and his daughter, it is known in some therapeutic circles that when a marriage is not going, well, the father and the oldest daughter will often form an unseen, inappropriate bond. This is sometimes known as the surrogate wife position.
Marilyn Monroe was a good actress. To me she is to feminine movie stars what John Wayne is to masculine: good actors with a limited range but excellent & thoroughly enjoyable when they stay in their own lane. What they’re both best at is sizzling on screen in their own persona.
Arthur Miller was out of all of the men Marilyn was involved with was the worse..
while onset for "the Prince and the Showgirl" with Lawrence Olivier, Miller openly flirted with another woman, who would later become his third wife, while Marilyn was working. Miller truly messed with her psyche, making her feel like nothing and that interfered with her work and her scheduling. She would show up later and later to work because she was having breakdowns, constant doubt that she could perform, and the emotional damage of seeing her HUSBAND toss her aside.
@@lisaleyendekker8305 Plus Olivier was constantly making fun of her and demanding that she stop speaking in her famous little girl breathing voice..So Marilyn was not having a good experience while filming " The Prince and the showgirl" over in England
@@judyholiday1794 Yet, ironically, this great actor came off as wooden in the movie while Marilyn glowed.
An interesting character was the TV personality and journalist Dorothy Kilgallen. She allegedly committed suicide in 1965, whilst following leads concerning the Kennedy assassination. Her death was highly suspicious. This may be more in the true crime category, but she was a fascinating woman and pioneer in her field. I dont know if there is a biography of her out there, or one that would stand up to a weekly read, but I thought I'd throw her story out there.
The reporter who knew too much by Mark Shaw.
@vistra thanks, I've heard his lectures but couldn't remember his name.
I believe that Marilyn Monroe became what OTHERS wanted her to be. She was used and abused by almost every person in her life and when drugs became a central part of her coping mechanism she was even more malleable for the vultures looking to take advantage of her. I think she was very intelligent and could have been so much more than a $ex thing for flaccid men to drool over. SUGGESTION...I would love for you to review a book about Peter Lawford. He was such a shadowy figure not only in Hollywood (Rat Pack) but also in politics due to his marriage to a Kennedy. I feel like he was Hollywood's version of Lord Mountbatten...a puppeteer of sorts manipulating powerful people and reaping rewards for themselves. Excellent chapter today! ❤❤❤
Joe knew he was marrying the iconic Marilyn Monroe! The fact that he thought she was going to just be resigned to being his little housewife is ridiculous! Although he treated her terribly as well . He was one of the few people she could count on. He got her out of the mental institution when Norman mailer put her there. He also, arranged and paid for her funeral. Making sure that the people that were truly toxic to Marilyn were not allowed at her funeral. Sad that these people she loved wanted her for their own selfish reasons!
The more i read the book , I find it hard to discern what is actually known and what is the author's creative writing. She says as much in the forward. The term "gay "was not used in 1950's. It is important to use the vernacular of the 1950's.
I am also raising children in this crazy culture. I admire you so much, and I identify with your attitudes towards education also! Good for you for homeschooling! Good for you for finding and executing what your children need. Loving this channel.
Denise, I've shared on here that I suffer with mental illness. The part people don't understand about mental illness is that the brain is an organ just like your kidney for example. When your kidney is diseased the toxins in your system aren't removed. It causes a faulty filter. So, when your brain is diseased it causes faulty thinking. Couple that with sexual abuse at an early age there will be huge issues with sexuality. This is going to produce someone like Marilyn. Sex is not only a source of pleasure, it is a source of acceptance, of being wanted and sadly, it is equated with love. She made bad decisions because she was mentally ill. She is a tragic figure. She was incapable of making better decisions. Until the day she died, she never could love herself. A principled person like yourself can easily see how ridiculous her thinking was... but the sickness is real. And when it comes to human behavior we find it hard to separate the behavior from the principles of right and wrong. She had no role models as a child so at no point will she have a point of reference as to right and wrong. Its all so ugly. As always, thank you for sharing the books and your insight. You are beautiful.
Perfectly stated.
@@elizabethcloutman8913 Thank you. I almost didn't post it because people have a hard time with the concept of people not having control of their behavior. To be honest I knew something was wrong when I would completely and out of the blue do something that was completely against my beliefs and morals. I would beat myself up then I finally hit a wall with suicidal ideations, was hospitalized and been trying to recover ever since. That's how I know the sickness is real. It's also embarrassing.
@rebeccagilstrap3507. Don't be embarrassed. Everyone is flawed, and has struggles. It takes great courage and character to be honest about what you're describing. I hope things go the way you need them to, and that the worst is behind.
@@rebeccagilstrap3507 The wonderful Vivian Leigh had the same struggles. Bless you. People can be so judgmental. You are very brave and may understand yourself far better than so called “normal” people.
@@elizabethcloutman8913 Girl! You have no idea how many "normal" people I've encountered who treat others horribly, they can't handle their own emotions and they talk about other people like their lower than dirt. I don't say anything but I think to myself "they make medication for people like you" and I contemplate slipping my psychiatrist's card in their purses. 🤣🤣🤣
I can't imagine what RUclips is talking about either. I think you were quite restrained talking about her very disfunctional life. Love your commentary!
Good for you for homeschooling your kids. I believe that’s absolutely the best thing you could possibly do for them. ❤
I think you are incredibly intuitive and smart! I love your takes on these people.
Would love to listen to a bio on Marilyn Monroe! Yes, she was no saint, but I think she had some wonderful qualities. For instance her friendship with Ella Fitzgerald was beautiful. I also find her acting to be completely captivating, I think she was incredibly talented, but not given a chance to show everything she had to offer. P.S. I would also love to hear a bio about Fitzgerald. That woman’s voice is to die for and her strength in the face of horrific racism is an inspiration for everyone.
You're wrong about MM as an actress. Vladimir Nabokov thought she was a wonderful actress. See two movies: Bus Stop and The Misfits, and I think you'll change your view of her talent. She lacked all discipline, however, so she couldn't have been a theater actress.
Don’t worry, Cheere! My father was a botany professor and the dean of the biology department, and even he said he didn’t know if he’d be able to homeschool us kids! It’s an entirely different animal to homeschool one’s own children! However, I think you’ll do brilliantly!
Marilyn was actually not that bad an actress...I've seen her in Niagara and also The Asphalt Jungle.
She really wasn't that bad.
In my opinion she wasn't great when she played the dumb blond.
I do however think it is really sad when your worst nightmare was that you are/are perceived by others as merely a pretty but empty vessel - and here, 62 years after your death that's what most people say and think of you "yeah she was pretty, but that's all she was - if you knock on her she'll probably ring hollow - no intelect, no emotion, no worth"
Although she had free agency and she made REALLY bad choices she does get my sympathy in someways unlike others in this book, like Rose.
It was really sad because most of the people in Marilyn’s life used her! John Kennedy, the rat pack would sleep with her and and pass her around! She was one of many victims!😢
Peter Lawford…now that’s a biography that was eye opening. My mom used to talk about Marilyn and other stars and she always said what a pig Lawford was, only strengthened by reading The story of Peter Lawford.
that is a good tip!
@@len6871 I wish she was still alive so I could ask more questions. She lived in SoCal in the late 50’s to mid 60’s. She worked in bars and restaurants. Her and my dad also frequented Reno when the Brat Pack was there, also Lawford adjacent.
I will say Lawford had a horrible childhood but went on to be both a perpetual victim and abuser.
Never stop what you doing, I enjoy your readings and quirky comments and definitely you different accents. You're doing an amazing job thank you.
I homeschool; and you are going to love it! Especially with your knowledge of the classroom. I love it- the older they get, the better:)❤❤
Well wishes 🔆
Wow this whole book is so heavy, and some of the comments are even harder to bear...😢
MM was terrific in Bus Stop & Gentleman Prefer Blondes.
Also, “Some Like It Hot.”
Marilyn truly was the character she played in "All About Eve".
Former homeschool momma here. Have a terrific year! 😊
I admire that you take your childrens education seriously.I wish more parents were like you . ❤️❤️❤️🏴
Excerpt from 1916 civic book “Patience, sympathy, duty, service, obedience, honesty, truthfulness, courage, fortitude, industry, sacrifice, forgiveness, purity,-are not all of these the virtues of a righteous home?
Do all children receive sufficient training in these virtues in their home?
The first duty of the school is to supplement the work of the home in developing in the children the habits and attitudes which underlie the character of a true citizen.
Children not reared in a spirit of reverence for the home the institution that brought them into existence-are but poorly equipped to enter into the broader relationships of life in which the home is but a unit."
SO WITTY! I’ve only been a subscriber for a couple months 29:46 Cheere, but already I love your witticisms when you are commenting AND also the way you always seem to nail the correct “vibe” of the quotes of the characters in the book, which isn’t all that easy to get right sometimes. You seem to accomplish that, at least to me, every time. It’s the personality and authenticity in YOU, that makes your readings, at least to me, bring to life the mood that the author is trying to portray, recreate, etc. that set you apart.
This isn’t a puff piece from me to you. I’ve always loved all things Kennedy right or wrong. I read Jim Garrison’s book ON THE TRAIL OF ASSASSINS when I was in high school and eventually came to devour all things Kennedy, warts in all.
Good luck with the kiddos school. I know how hard it is. Finally was able to place my one and only daughter in the only private school in Nacogdoches, Tx that went all the way through high school. Her graduating class of 2017 was 7 children. Regents Academy in Nacogdoches challenged and elevated her to achieve a big enough scholarship to Boston University(hard to send her to the bastion of liberalism 😢), but she graduated from BU and has returned back to Austin(at least she’s back in Texas) and I told her about your channel.
Sorry so long but thanks so much!
I disagree on her not being a good actress. I actually thought she was a very good comedian and I was surprised that her dancing I thought it was very good. I thought she was beautiful but looked more beautiful when she was natural.
Do the Kennedy decedents at all acknowledge the copious affairs and moral subterfuge?
I doubt it, especially since "decedents" are, by definition, dead.
@@jvmlucky13 Apparently John was very conscious of how his mother was hurt by his dad.
They are behaving the same way! Had poor role models.
I’ve read Marilyn was actually a smart woman and a good actress who got tied up in her persona as “Marilyn”.
Then the alcohol and drugs sort of make her hard to work with.
@@sidneybales9062 And a real lack of confidence. She would often freak out and panic in front of the camera. Billy Wilder said it was maddening, it when she finally achieved that good take, it was worth it.
I love the voices you do with these books!! And I so enjoy listening to you and very much enjoy and appreciate your commentaries!! 😊
Good luck with the home schooling! If I had school age children I would DEFINITELY be home schooling them because of how things are today...another school shooting yesterday...so so sad! Something has to be done I just don't know WHAT...MY heart breaks each time another one happens...
I like your channel and commentary. You are intelligent and do a great job. Marilyn was a very broken person and she didn't get the credit how intelligent she was. I also credit her acting. Just because she made some horrible and sad decisions doesn't make her her a ditz. And I think she was gorgeous. There was something more about her that makes one love her. I would have loved to be friends with her. I'm so sorry her life ended so tragically.
You’ve got the Home School thing down, Cheere!! You have great patience and insight! Good luck, anyway!!🙏🏻
In future I would love more details about Jackie:)
Cheere, family comes first. Always. We'll be here when you have a video ready, whenever that is. I hope your daughter enjoys her new school and that home schooling isn't going to be awful for you. I've a few friends who did it, one was a nursing professor, and turned out to be the best thing they did. Instead of seven years of high school (ages 11/12 to 18) and two sets of exams, GCSEs at 16 and A Levels at 18 ready for uni application, her two boys were uni ready before 17, so they all travelled together, the boys travelled before going to uni. One wanted to be a doctor and the other a lawyer. They were only going to do it for a year or two while they found a school for the boys, but they all loved it, and it gave them time to do sport and social things as their day was shorter than school. Either way, I hope it's fun for you all. ❤🇬🇧
I’ve also heard a lot of this relationship was rumoured and they only hooked up once at Frank Sinatra’s home.
I think that is probably closer to the truth.
@@christinepaige2575 I’d say so. I find the truth is always in between.
Can't wait for this one!