A word of warning if you try this. This set of devices is really cool. I was able to set up the crossovers on a four-way speaker very quickly just from watching Justin‘s video. However, I burned up one of the boards when I accidentally touched them together, so… Keep in mind Circuit boards are very fragile and very susceptible to shock and static. Protect your boards get nylon mounting hardware and some wood panels or something to fix the boards to so you can protect them. I sandwiched mine between two pieces of ash veneer.
I am using a couple of these amps, a couple of 500 Watt DC/DC step up converters, and an Optical to I2S board along with an Android Headunit. Using these DSP amps gives me lots of options for car audio that would cost thousands otherwise.. Oh yeah, and not many of the commercially available DSPs have an Optical input on them. These KABD boards are freaking awesome!
@@DIYAudioGuy It is actually a board from Wondom (Who is the OEM that makes the KABD boards for Dayton/Sure, their JAB5 is identical to the KABD-4100). Their SPDIF > I2S board will take over as the I2S Master for the KABD/JAB boards.
Top tier tutorial! Straight to the point with relevant details. Really appreciate the lack of fluff for something like this (I think you need more fluff in some videos, but you do what's right for you). Dayton has always been good to me. I'm using an old school mini dsp board for my car and not only can I sit on the good settings, but I can modify it so easily when I decide the time delay is off... Its usually just weather and I revert... I will absolutely use this solution for one of my future projects. Only thing is... I'm gonna make an external connecter for the programing port... I have to have adjustability
I’m using two in a very nice pair of two ways and subwoofer combo with faital 8fe200 1 cubic foot box made of a 13 layer Baltic ply with morel cat 308 tweeters in a birch horn I made. They are fully active and I’ll be rapid prototyping 3d printed horns soon to optimize the morel horns. So far I’m blown away with the power and capabilities of this DSP amp board. The level of adjustability I have is just nuts. I’m adding a zobel filter network to the woofer and tweeter so hopefully that can help with impedance issues with the woofer so the DSP board is not an end all solution but this board will cover 98% of people. It’s flipping fantastic. Great sound quality, lots of control, at a flipping fantastic price. Just make sure you get a high quality power supply, at least 24v 10a but I have a 36v 10a and it sounds slightly better with a higher voltage.
Thanks for the detailed information. Is it possible to configure as 4 channel mode in Mono with single board? seen many reviews but they only mention mono 3 channels
I'm getting ready to build a pair of 3 way active monitors with kabd boards and dd audio A series components. All I'm waiting on at this point is building the cabinets
Seems like a pretty nice amp. I might have gone that route had I not already bought an amp. Some of The parts express speaker kits already come with crossover parts, so I don't think it will be that hard to install them.
So is this basically a programable crossover? How is it connected to each driver? Did the speaker already have a traditional passive crossover installed? I'm about 80% of the way to understanding how this works. Also, can these be used with a traditional external amplifier? Thanks so much.
This is a 4-channel amplifier with a built-in digital signal processor. Crossovers are just one of many things that a digital signal processor can do. You can ser it up so that each channel is driving its own speaker.
You should dyno the board!! I believe it's a TDA7498E board which will do "rated" power with a 36VDC input. Though, you would need, at least, a 350 watt power supply to confirm if it does rated power.
Yeah, but if the amp in this video is indeed utilizing that TDA7498E chip then if you look at the actual manufacturers datasheet for that chip, it is claiming a (bullshit) power rating of 160 watts ×2 channels, however that is at a ridiculously "dirty" (i.e. highly distorted) 10% distortion rating, which is totally destroying the music fidelity at that point, so if you look further down on the manufacturers data sheet at the graphs of power output vs. distortion, then you can get a more realistic and relatively clean power output rating, (i.e. at under 0.1% distortion, the point of the beginning of onset of clipping, where the distortion all of a sudden shoots sky high to infinity), and that point of beginning clipping is at around 70-75 watts max, so that is a more useable and realistic, clean power rating for that chip it looks like, judging by the manufacturers graph on the datasheet... Even so, that is still pretty nice and decent power output from such a small amp! (Just don't expect it to actually sound good at its claimed 160 watt output power, because that power output is at such a high 10% distortion level... It would prob. sound OK at or below the beginning clipping onset point of 70-75 watts or less though.)
I did dyno it, but I think I had something set up wrong. I had it wired for 8 ohms but the amm1 was reading less than 4. At some point I will figure out what was going on and post a power rating.
buddy i have a question - can I really disconnect the programming board? It seems to me that the filters I just tinkered with, thats going to be written to the programming board and not the amplifier board?
Elliot Designs is right. I have schematics and a guide over at Toids DIY Audio forum. The guide is a rough draft I sat down and typed up on a snowy day in April (Rocky Mountains). It should be enough that you or Nick can use it to see what I was saying to do, but it isn't ready for mainstream quite yet (haven't tested it enough, etc.). I have posted a new one over there this morning which adds a noise gate to the schematic, which will cut out all sound below -80dBFS. That same dynamic compressor, if you wanted to, could also compress the top end so that anything that would be above a specific dBFS will be compressed down to only allow a top volume. I currently have a peak filter there, so I'd recommend swapping it to an RMS filter (under dynamic processors tree) to do it so that it isn't trying to stop transients from exceeding the top, just the average. I am also working on some cool things with an ADSP-21489 schematic to include automatic priority of inputs for switching, an automatic gain function with soft-clip rms, and a triggered noise gate with an additional loop from DAC back through the ADC to then have the signal subtracted from that round trip, then adding the inverse phase to the signal in hopes to cancel out any additional noise from the DAC. I suppose subtracting the exact noise might help as well. But that is a work in project. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to do that to cancel out the noise from the amplifier. I have to learn more and possibly implement some form of table filter to help with that. But, that is for the SHARC which has linear phase correction (FIR filters after IIR filters). Different beast. And if you do check it out, feel free to ask questions before flashing. I have not confirmed yet that the JAB5 from Sure Electronics is the same as Dayton's for the hardware switches, but the schematic, if you copy from mine and past into one made for Dayton's, then you should not have a problem. Plus, I'd love feedback as well.
Amplifier noise probably needs to be a hardware solution as it isn't regular so would need some kind of inverted feedback system or more power supply decoupling/smoothing capacitors
@@Elliott-Designs - agreed. I also have been digging into the feedback/feed-forward design of the purifi amp to look for inspiration. The main elements include three feedback signals, one feed forward, two filters, summing of the feedback into the signal, and a compensation circuit (to correct for gain due to summing signals together and to then address signal irregularities from the summing of the feedback signals). And I cannot think of how to do it without using a microphone input of the signal, but that has issues as well due to picking up errors of the transceivers, atmospheric noises unrelated, etc. Now, I also have been looking at the noise cancellation ADI was playing with in the past, where a microphone would feed in and then they could create a cancellation wave to reduce ambient noise. But to implement it would take a bit of thinking on how to do so. Especially if a person is speaking and the microphone feedback was trying to compensate for what you were saying (whereas for the audio being played, you can put a delay circuit in so you are roughly comparing the same audio signal to the same audio being played, thereby having a clear ambient signal and noise, but what it tells it to correct is further removed in time, so the effect with the dynamics of noise in the amplifier would be limited). You are correct that applying a smoothing capacitor for the power supplied to the board in an amount suitable to smooth or to filter high frequency noise out from reaching the board is a way to address possible noise in the overall amplification. Kiss Analog has some videos on using the oscilloscope to see the noise and shows the bridging of line and neutral with the capacitor to lower the noise level. To some degree, though, it is baked in with the amp being used. Either way, if you don't start playing with the ideas, you will never come up with a solution. LOL.
Would be really nice if you could get these non amped, that way you could use it as a crossover only and then use what ever Amp you wanted. I dont think those are going to be very high amps though.
You can, look for ADAU1701 AUDIO DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSOR KERNEL BOARD from sure electronics. They are the china based company that makes the KAB boards, they call them the JAB series.
I think these would be good for a dedicated Bluetooth speaker or computer speakers. But I like to build or modify speakers to run on my existing amplifiers. So these DSP's cannot replace most speakers I would build. Also I would recommend installing capacitors on all midranges and tweeters even if using DSP because sometimes the DSP can fail or not be programmed correctly and could send a low frequency to a tweeter and ruin it. One can always program the DSP to work around the capacitor.
Another note, this amp comes with a 1/8 inch line input. You do not have to use the Bluetooth so… If you’re trying to drive two speakers with one board in each box, you can just split your line out and run hard wires to them and you could have a powered speakers in stereo
Hey I preparing a build two mono 3 way 4ohm speakers based on kabd 4100 working as my rear home theater speakers but also I want add powertools battery hook ups on the back to make them "portable" move to the garden and make quick party... my question is possible to add some preeset profiles and switching them by adding extra button to the board?
Reach out to Parts Express tech support. They can help, or check out the Toids DIY forums. Between the two of them they can answer almost any question.
You are correct. Upgrading the alternator is the only way to get more power. That is on my list for the truck this year, just need to get some more views on RUclips to pay for it.
Wow sweet you just sold me I was wondering about the dsp and how it function on this board but you started talking about the amp capabilities and I'm sold. The only other board that has hole bunch of functionality but there amp section isn't as diverse is acrylic audio if you were to get the none amp model the two together would make a lot off different options add a tablet with windows 10 you probably program both amps and use the tablet as part of the project .🎶🎵👍👌✌️💯
@@DIYAudioGuy was hoping it would I like ideas every one always different one then the other possiblity are end less wish this was possible when I was a teenager but then again I probably wouldn't no how to solder lol 🛠️🎶🎵👍👌✌️💯
Justin: I would be nice and useful if you did some measurements and showed what the realistic output power ratings of this amp board are. The class D amp chip in this design is rated 100 watts at the class D industry standard of 10% distortion! I don’t know about you but, I’d rather not hear my music played with that much distortion, thank you. Looking at the TDA7498 datasheet it looks like the most you’ll get with an 8 ohm load before clipping is a hair less than 40 watts. Oddly enough, you get even less with a 6 ohm load; a bit over 30 watts before clipping. It doesn’t seem to be rated for 4 ohm loads. Looking at the 6 ohm headroom loss it’s probably a wise limitation. Also, this is a single supply H-bridge equivalent output chip (as many class D chip amps are) and therefore there is no way to configure it for a “bridged” output. The output is already bridged. You can put two outputs in parallel which is actually what you get utilizing the jumper that is mentioned but, that’s not bridging. This might help getting more power into loads < 8 ohms but, you won’t be getting the large increase that you’d expect with an amp capable of actual bridging. This is a great amp board for the money but, let’s be honest about its limitations too.
Hey Justin! Cool video to show case this amp. Crossover design is not usually as simple as plugging in some filters. Can you go over the filters and if they allow for linear phase and take phase adjustments like FIR? This is super useful for speaker design.
@@DIYAudioGuy Awesome! I've been considering an active design using something like this where I do full phase correction of the drivers, and linear phase based crossover to get the best possible result. Something tha'ts basically impossible with passive crossovers. A side issue. I looked into powering that amp, and... Well... A 300w switching power-supply seems to cost as much, or more, than the amp board. How can we power amps like that without breaking the bank?
Big question, what if I wanted do make a 5.1 home theater system without using passive crossovers for the satellites? Would I need a dsp amp for each of the speakers? Also, would the amp of the av receiver just be useless at this point? How would you go about a similar project? Thank you very much and keep up the great work!
It depends on what you're wanting to build. If you were doing 2 way speakers then I would get 5 of the 2 channel boards. One for each speaker. And then use the pre outs of the receiver to connect to each amp. Although at that point it may be easier and cheaper to buy a kit which already has the crossover designed for you.
Well, for 5.1, you could actually just use a modern ATX motherboard. A lot of the really modern ones have really good DACs and SNR too. For a basic system like that with satalites, you can even do the processing on the computer if you go down that route. Equaliser APO is a great option. With that, most modern boards support up to 7.1, you'd need a player like VLC to get the surround working nicely though! (Assuming the satellites are full range). If not, you could have a DSP/amp per channel with 3 way crossovers if going two way (one high pass to the sub). Then for sub processing you could offload it onto another DSP/amp or keep it on PC. Or as Justin said, the much easier route is to use an AVR with Preouts if you have one!
@@Elliott-Designs thanks for all the help guys! It all looks very interesting but intimidating 😂 I guess I'll stick with passive crossovers... But I'm having a lot of issues with phase alignment when I model crossovers on vituixcad. It almost feels like blindly fishing for the right combination of values sometimes 😭
@@Akusen_Arcade it really is. With passive crossovers you have to compromise between phase and flatness. Also, there's lots of options for active stuff, but it's actually far more simple than passive. You load up the schematic, change the crossover values, send it to the board. Plug it all in.
really thats the only thing any of us care about.. and no one ads any testing in their videos of this!!! id buy a few right now if i knew it did rated power
wait, I just looked on PE and it says 100 x 4? So that little bitty thing is putting out 100x100x100x100 or 200x100x100 or 200x 200? If this is correct, this is frigging nice, maybe even kind od revolutionary for DIY'ers
The ratings on these chips are thermal ratings --- so not really a good picture of the RMS output power. I did testi t, but something was off with the test (it was wired to 8 ohm, but reading 4 ohm) so I left the test out. I will include that once I figure out what was going on with the test.
Ajc9988 is developing some great sigmastudio schematics and a guide for these types of boards over on Nick's forum (DSP section). Bunch of really useful functionality, including some stuff that should hopefully reduce noise. I think he's currently working on stuff for sharc processors though. Either way, great video, and really nice to see people getting into active crossovers now that Dayton has jumped on the active bandwagon!
Maybe PRV or Parts Express will send me one! I wish I could afford to test ever DSP on the market, you can help with that by joining me at www.patreon.com/diyaudioguy
@@DIYAudioGuy lol, brother I would if I could. Hoping to be able to join one day, because what you do is priceless to those of us who have a spirit to learn but not the money or time for the schooling. And you make it interesting! Invaluable information!
@@DIYAudioGuy I sent PRV a request to send you one. It was lengthy lol, but I wanted to show my appreciation for the product in hopes that they would be more apt to send it.
Only partly true, drivers are designed to work with passive xovers. There is a humps and dips to cope with, must choose very carefullu witch drivers to use with active system 🤔🇫🇮
Passive crossovers can crate the same humps and dips. The difference is that the DSP can fix them without a complete redesign and rebuild of the crossover.
Cool possibilities for design flexibility with that amp board, but with it being a relatively inexpensive one, (surely) made in China, and def. a Class D amp based on its size and lack of heatsink, I would be concerned with the overall sound quality, rated distortion and noise levels, and realistic CLEAN (i.e. as UN-distorted as possible), power output abilities. It may very well give you lots of options in design flexibility, which is indeed cool, but is it actually up to a higher audiophile sound quality standard... i.e. what you would actually want to have if you actually took the time to custom design and carefully build your own speakers!... Also, even with as "easy" as this amp is to set up and program on your computer, since I am not at all a computer person, I personally think that it's still MUCH easier and simpler to just use good old fashioned passive component crossovers to build your speakers, than trying to figure out how to use a computer and then have to also program this amp. The programming procedure looks extremely complicated, way more so than simply designing and building a basic passive component crossover in the first place!... But "to each their own" I guess. I'm more "old school" than this amp, especially since I don't understand anything about computers, not even how to turn them on or off properly... the closest thing I ever get to using a computer is my scientific calculator and my smartphone that I'm watching this video on and typing this comment on, and I still haven't fully figured out how to even use that to its fullest capacity, even after 3 years of daily frustration with it! (basic functions only)
@@DIYAudioGuy Haha, yeah, but IF that is what I think it is, (a computer program), I wouldn't ever be able to figure out how to use it, because I don't understand anything about computers, not even how to turn them on or off properly. The closest thing to a computer that I can operate, (mostly), is my cellphone, (which I also use to watch RUclips on), and my trusty HP48GX scientific calculator that I've had since my senior year of HS back in '92... I'm totally "old school" like that, lol!
@@JoeJ-8282 I'm sure that if you've done passive crossovers most of your life then it will be far more intuitive, however for most beginners the flexibility of active crossovers make it a no brainer in many situations
@@blakebrockhaus347 Yep, and I'd really like to somehow learn how to play around with the design flexibility of those types of programmable things, but aside from a (stereo) "component" style active crossover with actual adjustable physical knobs, buttons, and switches on it, (which I'd love to have, but they are all very expensive, totally out of my extremely meager budget), all of these other more "virtual" devices, that require a computer to program their settings and options, are all way out of my comprehension, because I'm not at all a computer person, and I never have been. I've tried to have my friends and family show me how to use computers many times throughout the years too, but my brain just can't deal with "virtual" controls, on a screen that always changes depending on whatever "page" or "mode" it's in... I think it may have something to do with me having Autism Spectrum Disorder. I need things to always stay totally consistent and reliable, (i.e. exactly the same all the time), so I can actually remember how something works with enough time to get used to it. But so it can't be continuously changing like a computer screen does, and have buttons that do totally different things all the time, different with each screen or whatever. Computers in general are just too complicated for me to grasp how to use them. As close to a computer that I can (mostly) understand how to use is my cellphone, but that's only because I've finally gotten used to how it operates after having it for over 4 years now... The bad thing about that though is that now my phone plan/company wants me to "upgrade" to a brand new phone because I guess mine's not "5G" capable... Really pisses me off, because now I gotta get used to another phone entirely, with a completely new and different button and control layout, etc... It'll take me another few years to finally get used to whatever new one I end up getting! :(
I had to put that into Google translate! Awesome, thanks for watching. When I started posting videos I never imagined that people on the other side of the world would watch them.
No!!! not $30 for an inductor, how ever will the wallet recover from that? You get what you pay for in crossover parts. Pity it is bluetooth, they might have a place in a real wired speaker.
@@DIYAudioGuy it's a bit of an inconclusive conclusion... It entirely depends on the budget. You could do this comparison at a $100, $1,000 and $10,000 price points. I went on Parts Express to see what the unit sold for. You couldn't buy a single big quality cap for the price of this unit, but then again you would need to compare that cap to something like my $6,000 active crossover to get a fair comparison. At the budget end of the spectrum you would be comparing this unit against something like electrolytic or very cheap poly caps. You can't draw any conclusions without doing a sound test of a both crossover types. This might even work out cheaper, but it could sound 10x worse. Also not everyone knows how to use software to properly configure the DSP. I know from playing around with my active crossover wrong settings can make it sound far worse than a cheap crossover. Make a cheapish passive crossover for the other speaker and then lets see if it still stacks up.
@@DIYAudioGuy I would be keen to see an audio test comparing the two. I have been tossing up between active and passive for my rear home theatre speakers. A decent passive crossover is going to set me back about $300-$500 per speaker, I have wondered what something like this might compare like to a passive solution. I'm not for a moment saying that the DSP isn't the way to go, but I need to see a fair comparison between the two to draw any meaningful conclusions. I mean value is only value when you are getting a better solution for less. If it is less, and cost less then that is the opposite direction of "HiFi".
@@blakebrockhaus347 something that small it not really cost effective .i rather have a analog 31 band eq and intergraded amp .be sides a power simply that can do 200 w will not be cheap
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A word of warning if you try this. This set of devices is really cool. I was able to set up the crossovers on a four-way speaker very quickly just from watching Justin‘s video. However, I burned up one of the boards when I accidentally touched them together, so… Keep in mind Circuit boards are very fragile and very susceptible to shock and static. Protect your boards get nylon mounting hardware and some wood panels or something to fix the boards to so you can protect them. I sandwiched mine between two pieces of ash veneer.
Yep, have to be careful!
I am using a couple of these amps, a couple of 500 Watt DC/DC step up converters, and an Optical to I2S board along with an Android Headunit. Using these DSP amps gives me lots of options for car audio that would cost thousands otherwise.. Oh yeah, and not many of the commercially available DSPs have an Optical input on them. These KABD boards are freaking awesome!
Is the optical input an optional board, or is it on the main amp?
@@DIYAudioGuy It is actually a board from Wondom (Who is the OEM that makes the KABD boards for Dayton/Sure, their JAB5 is identical to the KABD-4100). Their SPDIF > I2S board will take over as the I2S Master for the KABD/JAB boards.
I was always wanting to come up with something like this I'm glad you started and made this video
Glad you liked it!
I'm probably never going to do what you are doing with a home system, but I enjoy 'seeing' what projects/equip. you're using and making- great video👍🏻
Cool, thanks!
@telegram me 👉@officialDiyaudioguy I'm sorry I do not use telegram:(
I have Parkinson’s and I have been considering a number of speaker projects… But I am intimidated by the crossover! Thanks so much for this video!
I'm glad it was helpful.
Top tier tutorial! Straight to the point with relevant details. Really appreciate the lack of fluff for something like this (I think you need more fluff in some videos, but you do what's right for you). Dayton has always been good to me. I'm using an old school mini dsp board for my car and not only can I sit on the good settings, but I can modify it so easily when I decide the time delay is off... Its usually just weather and I revert...
I will absolutely use this solution for one of my future projects. Only thing is... I'm gonna make an external connecter for the programing port... I have to have adjustability
It is hard to figure out the right amount of extra filler.
Justin, you are the man! You are a great teacher. That was so easy!
And now to build my complicated 4 way McIntosh speakers!
Very cool little piece. I think before we know it we will see the same for car audio.
That would be cool.
I’m using two in a very nice pair of two ways and subwoofer combo with faital 8fe200 1 cubic foot box made of a 13 layer Baltic ply with morel cat 308 tweeters in a birch horn I made. They are fully active and I’ll be rapid prototyping 3d printed horns soon to optimize the morel horns.
So far I’m blown away with the power and capabilities of this DSP amp board. The level of adjustability I have is just nuts. I’m adding a zobel filter network to the woofer and tweeter so hopefully that can help with impedance issues with the woofer so the DSP board is not an end all solution but this board will cover 98% of people. It’s flipping fantastic. Great sound quality, lots of control, at a flipping fantastic price. Just make sure you get a high quality power supply, at least 24v 10a but I have a 36v 10a and it sounds slightly better with a higher voltage.
The power supply is very important.
Where did you find these example files? Have been looking for them for a while. Can somebody please provide a link or a hint?
Thanks for the detailed information. Is it possible to configure as 4 channel mode in Mono with single board? seen many reviews but they only mention mono 3 channels
Wow.. Yesterday only I was looking these and some BMR drives and thinking to make a soundBar.
And you comeup with a video.
🕉
It's uncanny.
I'm getting ready to build a pair of 3 way active monitors with kabd boards and dd audio A series components. All I'm waiting on at this point is building the cabinets
That is my favorite part.
@@DIYAudioGuy I'm planning on using a CNC to cut all the parts, only issue is that the guys at DD who know how to use a CNC are swamped rn
Seems like a pretty nice amp. I might have gone that route had I not already bought an amp. Some of The parts express speaker kits already come with crossover parts, so I don't think it will be that hard to install them.
This thing just opens up so many possibilities.
So is this basically a programable crossover? How is it connected to each driver? Did the speaker already have a traditional passive crossover installed? I'm about 80% of the way to understanding how this works.
Also, can these be used with a traditional external amplifier? Thanks so much.
This is a 4-channel amplifier with a built-in digital signal processor. Crossovers are just one of many things that a digital signal processor can do. You can ser it up so that each channel is driving its own speaker.
Random comment...I'm really liking the finish on those book shelf speakers.
I just sent you some pics via Facebook.
You can also just route each channel into its own board, you don't have to use passthrough 😉
You should dyno the board!! I believe it's a TDA7498E board which will do "rated" power with a 36VDC input. Though, you would need, at least, a 350 watt power supply to confirm if it does rated power.
Yeah, but if the amp in this video is indeed utilizing that TDA7498E chip then if you look at the actual manufacturers datasheet for that chip, it is claiming a (bullshit) power rating of 160 watts ×2 channels, however that is at a ridiculously "dirty" (i.e. highly distorted) 10% distortion rating, which is totally destroying the music fidelity at that point, so if you look further down on the manufacturers data sheet at the graphs of power output vs. distortion, then you can get a more realistic and relatively clean power output rating, (i.e. at under 0.1% distortion, the point of the beginning of onset of clipping, where the distortion all of a sudden shoots sky high to infinity), and that point of beginning clipping is at around 70-75 watts max, so that is a more useable and realistic, clean power rating for that chip it looks like, judging by the manufacturers graph on the datasheet...
Even so, that is still pretty nice and decent power output from such a small amp! (Just don't expect it to actually sound good at its claimed 160 watt output power, because that power output is at such a high 10% distortion level... It would prob. sound OK at or below the beginning clipping onset point of 70-75 watts or less though.)
I did dyno it, but I think I had something set up wrong. I had it wired for 8 ohms but the amm1 was reading less than 4. At some point I will figure out what was going on and post a power rating.
Thanks for this video. Is it possible to take the filtered DSP outputs and send it to an external amp in case you want to use your own amps?
Yes, but at that point you may as well get a stand-alone DSP. parts-express.sjv.io/ORg1kz
buddy i have a question - can I really disconnect the programming board?
It seems to me that the filters I just tinkered with, thats going to be written to the programming board and not the amplifier board?
That's what the instructions say.
Elliot Designs is right. I have schematics and a guide over at Toids DIY Audio forum. The guide is a rough draft I sat down and typed up on a snowy day in April (Rocky Mountains). It should be enough that you or Nick can use it to see what I was saying to do, but it isn't ready for mainstream quite yet (haven't tested it enough, etc.).
I have posted a new one over there this morning which adds a noise gate to the schematic, which will cut out all sound below -80dBFS. That same dynamic compressor, if you wanted to, could also compress the top end so that anything that would be above a specific dBFS will be compressed down to only allow a top volume. I currently have a peak filter there, so I'd recommend swapping it to an RMS filter (under dynamic processors tree) to do it so that it isn't trying to stop transients from exceeding the top, just the average.
I am also working on some cool things with an ADSP-21489 schematic to include automatic priority of inputs for switching, an automatic gain function with soft-clip rms, and a triggered noise gate with an additional loop from DAC back through the ADC to then have the signal subtracted from that round trip, then adding the inverse phase to the signal in hopes to cancel out any additional noise from the DAC. I suppose subtracting the exact noise might help as well. But that is a work in project. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to do that to cancel out the noise from the amplifier. I have to learn more and possibly implement some form of table filter to help with that. But, that is for the SHARC which has linear phase correction (FIR filters after IIR filters). Different beast.
And if you do check it out, feel free to ask questions before flashing. I have not confirmed yet that the JAB5 from Sure Electronics is the same as Dayton's for the hardware switches, but the schematic, if you copy from mine and past into one made for Dayton's, then you should not have a problem. Plus, I'd love feedback as well.
I will have to check it out!
99% sure the Dayton board is a rebrand with a different coloured circuit board. So should be fine, but yeah, best to check.
Amplifier noise probably needs to be a hardware solution as it isn't regular so would need some kind of inverted feedback system or more power supply decoupling/smoothing capacitors
@@Elliott-Designs - agreed. I also have been digging into the feedback/feed-forward design of the purifi amp to look for inspiration. The main elements include three feedback signals, one feed forward, two filters, summing of the feedback into the signal, and a compensation circuit (to correct for gain due to summing signals together and to then address signal irregularities from the summing of the feedback signals). And I cannot think of how to do it without using a microphone input of the signal, but that has issues as well due to picking up errors of the transceivers, atmospheric noises unrelated, etc. Now, I also have been looking at the noise cancellation ADI was playing with in the past, where a microphone would feed in and then they could create a cancellation wave to reduce ambient noise. But to implement it would take a bit of thinking on how to do so. Especially if a person is speaking and the microphone feedback was trying to compensate for what you were saying (whereas for the audio being played, you can put a delay circuit in so you are roughly comparing the same audio signal to the same audio being played, thereby having a clear ambient signal and noise, but what it tells it to correct is further removed in time, so the effect with the dynamics of noise in the amplifier would be limited).
You are correct that applying a smoothing capacitor for the power supplied to the board in an amount suitable to smooth or to filter high frequency noise out from reaching the board is a way to address possible noise in the overall amplification. Kiss Analog has some videos on using the oscilloscope to see the noise and shows the bridging of line and neutral with the capacitor to lower the noise level. To some degree, though, it is baked in with the amp being used.
Either way, if you don't start playing with the ideas, you will never come up with a solution. LOL.
Would be really nice if you could get these non amped, that way you could use it as a crossover only and then use what ever Amp you wanted. I dont think those are going to be very high amps though.
You can, look for ADAU1701 AUDIO DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSOR KERNEL BOARD from sure electronics. They are the china based company that makes the KAB boards, they call them the JAB series.
Nice video, these amps seem so good. Could i use 2 channels bridged to 1x woofer. Then 1 channel for a tweeter. So 2 way mono?
For a portable speaker.
Yes.
@@DIYAudioGuy cool thanks man. Im going to give it a go!
this would be cool for bluetooth speakers.. i couldn't imagine using any high end drivers with such an amplifier.
I think these would be good for a dedicated Bluetooth speaker or computer speakers. But I like to build or modify speakers to run on my existing amplifiers. So these DSP's cannot replace most speakers I would build. Also I would recommend installing capacitors on all midranges and tweeters even if using DSP because sometimes the DSP can fail or not be programmed correctly and could send a low frequency to a tweeter and ruin it. One can always program the DSP to work around the capacitor.
Yep
Another note, this amp comes with a 1/8 inch line input. You do not have to use the Bluetooth so… If you’re trying to drive two speakers with one board in each box, you can just split your line out and run hard wires to them and you could have a powered speakers in stereo
Hey I preparing a build two mono 3 way 4ohm speakers based on kabd 4100 working as my rear home theater speakers but also I want add powertools battery hook ups on the back to make them "portable" move to the garden and make quick party... my question is possible to add some preeset profiles and switching them by adding extra button to the board?
Reach out to Parts Express tech support. They can help, or check out the Toids DIY forums. Between the two of them they can answer almost any question.
Cool product, thanks for sharing!
You are correct. Upgrading the alternator is the only way to get more power. That is on my list for the truck this year, just need to get some more views on RUclips to pay for it.
Wow sweet you just sold me I was wondering about the dsp and how it function on this board but you started talking about the amp capabilities and I'm sold. The only other board that has hole bunch of functionality but there amp section isn't as diverse is acrylic audio if you were to get the none amp model the two together would make a lot off different options add a tablet with windows 10 you probably program both amps and use the tablet as part of the project .🎶🎵👍👌✌️💯
Ooo clever. That might give me an idea.
@@DIYAudioGuy was hoping it would I like ideas every one always different one then the other possiblity are end less wish this was possible when I was a teenager but then again I probably wouldn't no how to solder lol 🛠️🎶🎵👍👌✌️💯
I bought this amp too, but the fan isn't on. Does somebody know if it goes on only when it gets warm, or should it be on all the time?
Mine did not turn on while testing.
@@DIYAudioGuy Thanks. So it seems to start when heating up.
How does the amp perform with the DINAS? gives 100w rms for real?
No, elastically only about 25w per channel of clean power.
Is a preamp needed with one of these? Id be using my mobile phone as the input source. Spotify soundcloud etc
Nope, but I'm not really much of an expert on preamps. You might get better sound quality if you used one but I really don't know.
@@DIYAudioGuy cool thanks again man. I will try without and see how it goes. Love your videos by the way 👍🏼
Justin: I would be nice and useful if you did some measurements and showed what the realistic output power ratings of this amp board are. The class D amp chip in this design is rated 100 watts at the class D industry standard of 10% distortion! I don’t know about you but, I’d rather not hear my music played with that much distortion, thank you.
Looking at the TDA7498 datasheet it looks like the most you’ll get with an 8 ohm load before clipping is a hair less than 40 watts. Oddly enough, you get even less with a 6 ohm load; a bit over 30 watts before clipping. It doesn’t seem to be rated for 4 ohm loads. Looking at the 6 ohm headroom loss it’s probably a wise limitation.
Also, this is a single supply H-bridge equivalent output chip (as many class D chip amps are) and therefore there is no way to configure it for a “bridged” output. The output is already bridged. You can put two outputs in parallel which is actually what you get utilizing the jumper that is mentioned but, that’s not bridging. This might help getting more power into loads < 8 ohms but, you won’t be getting the large increase that you’d expect with an amp capable of actual bridging.
This is a great amp board for the money but, let’s be honest about its limitations too.
Hey Justin! Cool video to show case this amp. Crossover design is not usually as simple as plugging in some filters. Can you go over the filters and if they allow for linear phase and take phase adjustments like FIR? This is super useful for speaker design.
I am working on a 2-way bookshelf system just for this amp. Hope to cover that information and a deep dive into the programming at that time.
@@DIYAudioGuy Awesome! I've been considering an active design using something like this where I do full phase correction of the drivers, and linear phase based crossover to get the best possible result. Something tha'ts basically impossible with passive crossovers.
A side issue. I looked into powering that amp, and... Well... A 300w switching power-supply seems to cost as much, or more, than the amp board. How can we power amps like that without breaking the bank?
@@Clobercow1 I was using a power supply from Parts Express. I think there's a link in the video description.
Ok. Sweet. How to hook up your good audiophile amp to it?
This is an amplifier. You should not need to hook up another amplifier to it.
what is FITH ? is it suppose to be , 5th. fifth ?
Wow. Waiting 2 or 3 days
Big question, what if I wanted do make a 5.1 home theater system without using passive crossovers for the satellites? Would I need a dsp amp for each of the speakers? Also, would the amp of the av receiver just be useless at this point? How would you go about a similar project? Thank you very much and keep up the great work!
It depends on what you're wanting to build. If you were doing 2 way speakers then I would get 5 of the 2 channel boards. One for each speaker. And then use the pre outs of the receiver to connect to each amp. Although at that point it may be easier and cheaper to buy a kit which already has the crossover designed for you.
Yes. You would need an AV receiver with preamp outputs for all channels then you would need an amp channel for each tweeter, mid, etc.
Well, for 5.1, you could actually just use a modern ATX motherboard. A lot of the really modern ones have really good DACs and SNR too. For a basic system like that with satalites, you can even do the processing on the computer if you go down that route. Equaliser APO is a great option. With that, most modern boards support up to 7.1, you'd need a player like VLC to get the surround working nicely though! (Assuming the satellites are full range). If not, you could have a DSP/amp per channel with 3 way crossovers if going two way (one high pass to the sub). Then for sub processing you could offload it onto another DSP/amp or keep it on PC. Or as Justin said, the much easier route is to use an AVR with Preouts if you have one!
@@Elliott-Designs thanks for all the help guys! It all looks very interesting but intimidating 😂 I guess I'll stick with passive crossovers... But I'm having a lot of issues with phase alignment when I model crossovers on vituixcad. It almost feels like blindly fishing for the right combination of values sometimes 😭
@@Akusen_Arcade it really is. With passive crossovers you have to compromise between phase and flatness. Also, there's lots of options for active stuff, but it's actually far more simple than passive. You load up the schematic, change the crossover values, send it to the board. Plug it all in.
i want to see a video of the amp dyno results.
really thats the only thing any of us care about.. and no one ads any testing in their videos of this!!! id buy a few right now if i knew it did rated power
wait, I just looked on PE and it says 100 x 4? So that little bitty thing is putting out 100x100x100x100 or 200x100x100 or 200x 200? If this is correct, this is frigging nice, maybe even kind od revolutionary for DIY'ers
The ratings on these chips are thermal ratings --- so not really a good picture of the RMS output power. I did testi t, but something was off with the test (it was wired to 8 ohm, but reading 4 ohm) so I left the test out. I will include that once I figure out what was going on with the test.
Ajc9988 is developing some great sigmastudio schematics and a guide for these types of boards over on Nick's forum (DSP section). Bunch of really useful functionality, including some stuff that should hopefully reduce noise. I think he's currently working on stuff for sharc processors though. Either way, great video, and really nice to see people getting into active crossovers now that Dayton has jumped on the active bandwagon!
That's a awesome peace of equipment. Does it do rated power ?
No, none of these little amps do rated power.
@@DIYAudioGuy will it do half of rated lol
Thanks!
Hmmm, something else I would really like to see is a case for it so you could use it in mini stacks
Yea, a case would be awesome. But it does not look like PE has one that will fit this board.
Can you cover dsp for car audio? So expensive…not many even use them when they should.
I used one in this build: ruclips.net/video/rh3Zl5qL4Rc/видео.html
@@DIYAudioGuy very cool thanks
Whats the wattage on the amp, you didnt mention that?
Enough. You'll likely get around 50-70 watts per channel. Which would be stupid loud
Do the PRV 2.8x
Maybe PRV or Parts Express will send me one! I wish I could afford to test ever DSP on the market, you can help with that by joining me at www.patreon.com/diyaudioguy
@@DIYAudioGuy lol, brother I would if I could. Hoping to be able to join one day, because what you do is priceless to those of us who have a spirit to learn but not the money or time for the schooling. And you make it interesting! Invaluable information!
@@DIYAudioGuy I sent PRV a request to send you one. It was lengthy lol, but I wanted to show my appreciation for the product in hopes that they would be more apt to send it.
Only partly true, drivers are designed to work with passive xovers. There is a humps and dips to cope with, must choose very carefullu witch drivers to use with active system 🤔🇫🇮
Passive crossovers can crate the same humps and dips. The difference is that the DSP can fix them without a complete redesign and rebuild of the crossover.
Cool possibilities for design flexibility with that amp board, but with it being a relatively inexpensive one, (surely) made in China, and def. a Class D amp based on its size and lack of heatsink, I would be concerned with the overall sound quality, rated distortion and noise levels, and realistic CLEAN (i.e. as UN-distorted as possible), power output abilities.
It may very well give you lots of options in design flexibility, which is indeed cool, but is it actually up to a higher audiophile sound quality standard... i.e. what you would actually want to have if you actually took the time to custom design and carefully build your own speakers!...
Also, even with as "easy" as this amp is to set up and program on your computer, since I am not at all a computer person, I personally think that it's still MUCH easier and simpler to just use good old fashioned passive component crossovers to build your speakers, than trying to figure out how to use a computer and then have to also program this amp. The programming procedure looks extremely complicated, way more so than simply designing and building a basic passive component crossover in the first place!...
But "to each their own" I guess. I'm more "old school" than this amp, especially since I don't understand anything about computers, not even how to turn them on or off properly... the closest thing I ever get to using a computer is my scientific calculator and my smartphone that I'm watching this video on and typing this comment on, and I still haven't fully figured out how to even use that to its fullest capacity, even after 3 years of daily frustration with it! (basic functions only)
You really should be using something like X-sim to design your passive crossovers.
@@DIYAudioGuy Haha, yeah, but IF that is what I think it is, (a computer program), I wouldn't ever be able to figure out how to use it, because I don't understand anything about computers, not even how to turn them on or off properly. The closest thing to a computer that I can operate, (mostly), is my cellphone, (which I also use to watch RUclips on), and my trusty HP48GX scientific calculator that I've had since my senior year of HS back in '92... I'm totally "old school" like that, lol!
@@JoeJ-8282 I'm sure that if you've done passive crossovers most of your life then it will be far more intuitive, however for most beginners the flexibility of active crossovers make it a no brainer in many situations
@@blakebrockhaus347 Yep, and I'd really like to somehow learn how to play around with the design flexibility of those types of programmable things, but aside from a (stereo) "component" style active crossover with actual adjustable physical knobs, buttons, and switches on it, (which I'd love to have, but they are all very expensive, totally out of my extremely meager budget), all of these other more "virtual" devices, that require a computer to program their settings and options, are all way out of my comprehension, because I'm not at all a computer person, and I never have been. I've tried to have my friends and family show me how to use computers many times throughout the years too, but my brain just can't deal with "virtual" controls, on a screen that always changes depending on whatever "page" or "mode" it's in...
I think it may have something to do with me having Autism Spectrum Disorder. I need things to always stay totally consistent and reliable, (i.e. exactly the same all the time), so I can actually remember how something works with enough time to get used to it. But so it can't be continuously changing like a computer screen does, and have buttons that do totally different things all the time, different with each screen or whatever. Computers in general are just too complicated for me to grasp how to use them.
As close to a computer that I can (mostly) understand how to use is my cellphone, but that's only because I've finally gotten used to how it operates after having it for over 4 years now... The bad thing about that though is that now my phone plan/company wants me to "upgrade" to a brand new phone because I guess mine's not "5G" capable... Really pisses me off, because now I gotta get used to another phone entirely, with a completely new and different button and control layout, etc... It'll take me another few years to finally get used to whatever new one I end up getting! :(
2:53 This interface is not called two-C but I²C, so I squared C.
Awesome, thank you.
ฉันเป็นคนไทย ที่ได้รับบอร์ดมาตั้งแต่เปิดตัวใหม่ๆ
I had to put that into Google translate! Awesome, thanks for watching. When I started posting videos I never imagined that people on the other side of the world would watch them.
No!!! not $30 for an inductor, how ever will the wallet recover from that? You get what you pay for in crossover parts. Pity it is bluetooth, they might have a place in a real wired speaker.
It also has an aux input
I think you missed the point. It is cheaper to buy this amp board and use the DSP vs using a non-DSP board and purchasing all of the crossover points.
@@DIYAudioGuy it's a bit of an inconclusive conclusion... It entirely depends on the budget. You could do this comparison at a $100, $1,000 and $10,000 price points. I went on Parts Express to see what the unit sold for. You couldn't buy a single big quality cap for the price of this unit, but then again you would need to compare that cap to something like my $6,000 active crossover to get a fair comparison. At the budget end of the spectrum you would be comparing this unit against something like electrolytic or very cheap poly caps. You can't draw any conclusions without doing a sound test of a both crossover types. This might even work out cheaper, but it could sound 10x worse.
Also not everyone knows how to use software to properly configure the DSP. I know from playing around with my active crossover wrong settings can make it sound far worse than a cheap crossover. Make a cheapish passive crossover for the other speaker and then lets see if it still stacks up.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Fair enough
@@DIYAudioGuy I would be keen to see an audio test comparing the two. I have been tossing up between active and passive for my rear home theatre speakers. A decent passive crossover is going to set me back about $300-$500 per speaker, I have wondered what something like this might compare like to a passive solution. I'm not for a moment saying that the DSP isn't the way to go, but I need to see a fair comparison between the two to draw any meaningful conclusions. I mean value is only value when you are getting a better solution for less. If it is less, and cost less then that is the opposite direction of "HiFi".
50 W IS A BIT WEAK
Plenty of power for what these are designed for -- bookshelf systems, desktop systems, bedroom stereo.
Keep in mind, thats 50 watts to each drivwr, which is (theoretically) equivalent to a 200 watt/channel stereo amp.
@@blakebrockhaus347 something that small it not really cost effective .i rather have a analog 31 band eq and intergraded amp .be sides a power simply that can do 200 w will not be cheap