My street experience w/the .38 is why I stick with it in retirement. That said my overriding concern w/rimfire is reliability regardless of which tests better, but I always learn something from your videos Sam so keep ‘em coming.
Light primer strikes for the most part are a non-issue in a revolver. Just pull the trigger again. No jams either. Great for women for shooting through their purse.
I have read that Ruger beat them to it at releasing a revolver before that rifle was ever released. So maybe the rifle was indeed created first, and fired the first round, but the first .22 Mag firearm a consumer ever purchased and fired was a Ruger revolver in .22 WMR.
@@GunSam Some sources say that the Savage model 24 combo .410/.22 mag rifle was first, some say the Marlin was first. As is sometimes the case with firearms history, sources of information can differ. The introduction of this cartridge was 74 years ago, so facts can become fuzzy over time. The take away for me, is that Winchester was late to their own party…
My deceased ex father in law was a Sheriff deputy once upon a time in Sulphur, Louisiana. He had to take down a crazed bull in the middle of Sulphur many years ago. He used a 22 magnum rifle. 22 magnum goes in deeper than most people think.
I want to like Taurus revolvers. As you honestly point out, your hands do not marry with your Taurus 3”. I have a Heritage Rough Rider and it is nothing but fun. They are made by Taurus. I have a 3” & a 5” Ruger 38 Revolvers and they are performers. The Odd size just appealed to me.
Both rounds look good, but that .38 is pretty wicked. Don’t know how it would do in a snubbie, but in that 3” barrel it would be a very good home defense round. Great video Sam, thanks! 👍
About 5-6 years ago I purchased one, and I went with the Magnum because frankly, I could not hold the LR or Short version as my hands were too big. One time, I mean ONE time I went grocery shopping and decided to vest pocket carry the NAA, and the entire time (even though this is a low risk place to be) I was terrified. I went from my normal fearless walk, where if someone tried murdering people I could stop it, save my own life too....to feeling like I was carrying a toy that there's no possible way I could employ and hit a man before he killed me. It's better than nothing, but so it pepper spray.
I want to thank you for your videos. I've learned a lot from you and you are very pleasant to listen to. I ordered a Sidekick when they first came out. A fine firearm. I live in the forest of the Ozarks so, my firearm needs are much different than most people. My EDC is a Rossi 44 Mag lever action carbine and my sidearm is the Sidekick with the 22 LR cylinder, first two chambers filled with snake shoot and the next 7 with 22 LR hollow point. Now this is something I've never hear anyone say.. (Winchester Super X LR 40 GR, 1435 FPS HP) ammo generally expands from my 4" Sidekick. I have had had it expand to ".36" from this revolver! I kid you not. This ammo is one of the few on the market which will do so. It is hard to find where I live but,, when I find it I buy it. It runs great in my 10-22s also. This is just my experience,, your outcome may vary? Thanks again. Rev
Basic principle: seldom does anything beat cubic inches. The 125 gr 38+p has been performing well for decades. Many agencies used it, if they did not use the 158 gr LSWCHP +p. Semi jacketed bullets generally expand readily. The 357 version certainly does. I one had a suicide, contact chest shot, 4" bbl, Rem 125 gr +p SJHP. Went through the rib plate, tore up one side of the heart, evidence of expansion, and fragmented somewhat. Pathologist didn't bother finding the bullet, so I didn't see the actual expansion, but it was in the back muscles somewhere. They work. Glad to see the velocities were as stated. I love 3" barrels. A sensible split the difference option. You get almost full velocity, and the extra sight radius and forward weight vs a 2" certainly don't hurt. I wish the manufacturers made more 3" barrel versions. At least Ruger is on board with the GP100 in 357 snd 44 Spl, and the LCR(x) in 22 WMR and 38 SPL. And Kimber has the 3" K6, which i want, and Taurus the 3" 856 (and in the 90's they made L frame-ish 44 Spls in 3" also. Fortunately i have a Rossi 720 in 3" 44 Spl (only way it came, i think), which is a surprisingly nice gun.
Yes 3 inch revolveres are to rare. And Taurus is the only one who offer a medium frame 6 shot 3 inch airweight. A 3 inch K frame airweight from S&W would be perfect.
@@Gieszkanne The old Nightguards were intriguing. Scandium frames, 2.5" barrels, better triggers, and night sights. The K frame 38 was 24 oz i think. Even the N frames were only about 28 oz i think. I always thought the K frame 38 or the L frame 5 shot 44 Spl would have been interesting
@@troy9477 Yes but ther were expencive and now even used are rare. S&W should make just an aluminium K frame. Like the Model 12. They would be much cheaper. I guess the problem is that they could only fire .38 +p not .357 so it might not sell very good.
@@Gieszkanne Yeah i know the M12. A 3" alloy 38 might sell well. Most people wouldn't fire magnums in an alloy gun much anyway, despite the braggadocio that so many spew. I like my 2.25" SP-101 just fine, but i would not want it any lighter (25 oz). Kudos to Taurus, but i hear the QC on the 856 has been iffy. My 15 yr old 850 is fine, although the screw on the cylinder latch did back out a little. But that can happen with anything
The .22 Magnum makes a great hunting/trail round in a revolver with at least a four inch barrel. It performs very much like a 22lr. does from a rifle. Perfect for anything up to coyote size. It would do for self defense if it had to. .38 Special is a much better self defense round. It would do as a trail gun.
@@nicholasroberts9618 I have done that a bunch of times. It would take me some time to locate all the videos but I have done basically every weight and pressure of Remington HTP and or other versions of the scalloped SJHP Remington .38 Special ammo.
Hi Sam, I see your point and I would say that I think the two guns are meant to shine in different contexts. Let's say you are in the woods, or leave in the woods and you want or have to put some meat on the fire with what you have in your backpack. I think a .22 with adjustable sights may be better on small game, and leave it edible. It is kind of a small game round that can be used for defence, whereas the .38 cannot do both well, with defensive rounds.
This is true I have found for my experience with using .22 LR and even using .22 WMR in the forests for game ! Plus a box of .22 is smaller and lighter in your pack ! I’ve never had any problems with either ctg in the field and have used them for 50 + years !
Strongly prefer 327 Federal Magnum and 32 H&R Magnum and 32 Long. The trigger is much lighter and smoother on center fire revolvers. Rimfire revolver triggers are pretty miserable.
The springs have to be stronger because of the rimfire need more powerfull strikes. Thats why 22 revolver isnt the best choise for older people with hand strength problems. A .32 would e much better.
Thanks for the continued testing; always very informative. Now my interest is piqued in that .38spl 125gr SJHP +P configuration from Winchester and (I'm assuming) others. I've been looking to shoot something besides magnum rounds through my S&W 66 Combat Magnum with 2.75" barrel and have been seeking the right .38 +P round. I think I'm off-base with 158gr through shorter barrels; 125gr makes sense. Thanks again.
Speer used to load a very good 158 gr FMJ +p in their Lawman line. I used it a fair bit as practice ammo, and even for a club match with my 2.5" 66. It did quite well. I was even able to tag a seemingly reduced size bowling pin silhouette at 20 yards with 1 quick shot at the end of a stage. It was an optional target for bonus points/reduced time. Good ammo and burned clean. I think they still make it. I love that 66. I wore it as a court gun in uniform for years, in a black floral carved El Paso pancake holster. Good times long ago
@@troy9477 Speer definitely still makes it and I am familiar with it too. I'm looking for a defensive round though, something that'll expand well even when fired through a shorter (sub 4") barrel. I read another of your comments; i.e., the self-inflicted mortal wound created by the 125gr SJHP. That's the kind of round I'm looking to supply my model 66 with. Mine is the newer generation (love the 66 in general) with a 2.75" barrel and the full-length ejection rod. I've really taken a shine to that gun and fine myself going to it as much or more than my Sig 229 these days.
@@ObscureImages You sound like me. My 229 was my duty gun from 1997-2016. It reposes a few feet sway in honorable semi retirement as i speak. Aside from the 125 gr 38's, look at the Buffalo Bore 38+p 148 gr LSWCHP. This is the old FBI load, optimized. It is known to consistently reach 1000 fps, which is a game changer. It will not have the flash or blast of magnum rounds. Another good choice might be a midrange 357 load, specifically the 110 gr SJHP, formerly in the USA line (might be in the train and defend line now). It is essentially the old "Treasury" 38 +p+ load, in a magnum case. Rated at 1250 fps i think, in a 4" bbl. They used to come in nickel plated brass with a water sealed primer, which was nice. Shot a lot of it for practice ammo over the years. Manageable recoil. The few gel tests i have seen, it does pretty well. Not the equal of the full house 125 gr of course, but ballistically it compares favorably with 115 gr and 124 gr 9mm.
@@troy9477 Thanks for the info. I'm definitely going to put that Buffalo Bore on my list of ammo to try. All of the 110gr magnum rounds I've tried so far are too spicy for what I'm after. Essentially, I'm looking for some ammo to keep in the 66 in case my wife needs to pick it up. She will not train with 357 magnum, so no sense putting that in the gun. She'll shoot .38 spl +P though, so looking for that ideal load that'll penetrate and expand out of a short barrel.
I appreciate these "oddball" comparisons no one else thinks to do. They never take into account sectional density, which I think plays a huge part. It also firms up my belief that .32's, is the way to go for carry. My sp101 in 327 is a beast with the new 104 HST, and is my new car, backpacking carry. It's too much for the LCR, and the velocity drops 100 FPS. I recently purchased a 30 super carry S&W EZ, and have been playing with that. The great part they are the same caliber as the .327 .312 so I can use the same bullets reloading. It's also 200 FPS faster than a .32 H&R Mag with the 4" barrel. Don't think the 104 HST 327 would feed very well in the 30, because they came up with a different HST bullet for the super carry. One good thing about revolvers is they can get pretty radical on HP's and noses without feeding issues. The extra rounds that come with the .32's are a plus also. Anyone interested in buying some 9mm's? LOL Thanks again, and keep the vids coming.
@@paulscountry456 while it is true that the .22 Magnum cartridge can be cycled through some rifles, the .38 special cartridge can also be fired through some rifles. When fired through a rifle it is even more impressive than a 22 mag through a rifle.
@@elijahparker7655 never said it wasn't a better defence round the 38, the 22 mag is not designed for pistols and the velocity you get is poor and not worth the extra cost over 22lr in a pistol.
Two of the best performers in 22mag are the Speer Gold Dots and Federal Punch. I don't think they are just as good as .38 spl but you do get 7 rounds in the same size gun that holds 5 rounds of .38 spl.
I have both the Federal Punch and the Speer Gold Dot that designated SB ! Of all the material I have fired into I’m pleased with the results ! When carry , that’s what I like to carry ! Sometimes I carry my .357 when I go out !
Hi Sam, thank you for testing that Winchester 125 grain 38 +p in the 3" barrel. The performance in the bare gel was great. I was slightly disappointed in the expansion through the denim and mdf, but I suppose it was predictable, and still pretty good. What are your thoughts on that round vs Critical Defense 110 grain +p out of the 3" barrel? Seems to me the Winchester wins through the bare gel since it probably has bigger expansion, but through the denim and mdf the performance of the two rounds are probably pretty similar. Thanks for all you do.
If you watched the block's reaction when hit, the 22 mag failed to dump it's energy. So the penetration will obviously be greater than the round that transfered it's energy to the target. I'll take the 38 over the 22 mag all day. They are both really fun to shoot though.
Since showing a gun and/or firing pretty much anything at any bad guy makes everyone run it’s probably effective for most situations. Against wild animals probably not. Great videos by the way love your content
My favorite .22 ammo! The original and best loading in my opinion but my experience with this round comes from hunting with both a rifle and with a Single Six with a 5-1/2 inch barrel. I’ve taken game cleanly that’s considered by most to be way too large of a target for this caliber with both the rifle and the revolver. My 5-1/2 inch barrel makes more velocity of course than the 3 inch and I’m not an advocate of using the .22 mag for defense but for me, if that’s what I happened to be carrying at the time of need, I would not be too worried about it’s ability to get me out of harms way as long as I’m able to do my part.
There's one thing I can promise all of you. When you're getting poked full of holes, you're not going to be asking yourself "I wonder what caliber that hole is?".
Once upon a time a cowboy in the islands used to do certain things with .22lr, riddle them because cowboy knew that once the unfortunate got to the emergency/trauma operating room he was pretty much a goner, there is no way of taking out so much 22lr shrapnel
.38 Special is a really great round, easy for the smallest person to shoot accurately and has plenty of proven street performance. I just cant use any rimfire for defense, theres always that chance it wont go off vs. centerfire even though its still rare, it happens more with rimfire and that one time you need it...
Many years before you were born, a gentleman named Bill Jordan wanted S&W to build a .22 Magnum on the Model 60 stainless J frame with an 8 shot cylinder. At the time the standard police round was the 158 gr round nose lead. He considered the .22 Magnum HP might have been more effective as an off duty/backup/concealed gun. It might be an interesting comparison.
Probably was long before I was born. That being said it's surprising how people think I was born anywhere from 1990 to 1995, when I was actually born in 1980.
because bill jordan was a fast draw and trainined just as i do showing my draws on youtube, no second place winners, i can draw and carry my 22 mag snub giving me the advantage to put shots in the right spot despite being a 22 mag, we still have to have shot placment but if i am faster and more accurate i have the edge no matter what caliber my opponent has
I see Dan's comment and I'm not going to argue with experience even though it is anecdotal. That 22Mag did better than I expected. I was kind of surprised by the 38 Spl. That's a hum drum loading that I wouldn't carry in a 2". But out of the 3", I would say its performance was nearly acceptable. It might stop a fight.
Both calibers can be effective for self defense with good shot placement. That said, both calibers will be ineffective with poor shot placement for self defense. Bottom line, do whatever is best for you.
Fair conclusions - and consonant with intuition. The argument, I believe, goes like this: "yeah, but a .22 is so easy to control, you'll hit your target, and a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with an elephant gun." Or: "You can make head shots with a .22, but a centerfire round is harder to control." While both statements are true, they're not really relevant. In the heat of an exchange, between adrenalin and maneuvering, precision of shot placement is nonexistent - regardless of caliber. Logic dictates that as long as the gun you are shooting is controllable (not a .460), a bigger bullet stands a better chance of putting your assailant down. A .22 is not a viable or practical defensive weapon for you if you can control a .38 or a .40 S&W, for example. And there is a LOT to be said for a high-capacity magazine; MOST shots will not hit your target, regardless of distance. But I think we all know that - just on instinct, don't we?
Isn’t tumble effective, if it’s after initial impact? If a tumbling 22 makes a wound channel similar to a mushrooming 38, and achieves similar penetration, (I get energy factor) are we playing in the same ballfield?
Standard pressure 38 special is one of my absolute favorite rounds (not a big +P fan) with the 32 Long and H&R close behind but I have to admit that 8 rounds of 22 mag has a certain charm. I don't put much stock in energy numbers but gel work gives a better look. Is the 38 more effective? Yes. Is the 22 mag a dog? I don't think so.
My uncle shot himself with a 22lr in the head and he passed away ..I was bout 5yr old ..we got home a couple minutes later and he was doing that death rattle noise ..it was some scary and sad shit man..just don't underestimate them , it's a very capable and underestimated round
muzzle energy in ft/lbs doesnt matter if shot placment isnt right including a 155 howitzer on my army base, you miss someone all that energy didnt matter, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement, a 22 lr in the right spot is better then a 155 howitzer in the wrong spot, waisted energy
Next video: Putting .22 fan boys and trolls in their place. First I will pit the .22 against the 625 grain .50. That will be shot out of the Bush Master. Second a .22 vs the standard .50. Third .22 vs .454 Casull. Fourth .22 vs .44 Magnum. Fifth .22 vs .44 special. Sixth .22 vs .357 Magnum. Seventh .22 vs 9mm. Eighth .22 vs 8.5X55 Blaser. Ninth .22 vs .32 ACP. Tenth .22 vs 5.7X28. This video will make those unrealistic perspective,, glory mind filled .22 fan boys cry.
If you put a Ruger MKII 5.5" or 6 6/8" against the list >> 3 pair of eggs @ 30 ft . for time , shoot only one of the 2 eggs .. the bad egg ... if you hit the hostage egg you lost . The MK II will beat almost every one EASY , a few depend on the gun , but they will need to run to perfection the beat the MKII . Keep bullet travel = ...... a good hit with a 22Lr is better than a miss with an ultra mag blaster .
muzzle energy in ft/lbs doesnt matter if shot placment isnt right including a 155 howitzer on my army base, you miss someone all that energy didnt matter, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement, a 22 lr in the right spot is better then a 155 howitzer in the wrong spot, waisted energy
@Libra7 First off, I want to thank you for serving our great country. To keep all of us safe and secure. From the various evils out there. If a 155mm howitzer missed a steel vehicle. Yes no damage done. If the same round. Shot through a crowd of enemy solders. Without the round, not physically touching a single solder. The vacume created by the round. Would pull their eyes. Right out of their skull. Killing them instantly. Which the .22 is not capable of accomplishing. Which swings where I was going. To now the hand goes to the biggest and most powerfull mortars. Vs the much the much more tiner bullets🙃?😄
My street experience w/the .38 is why I stick with it in retirement. That said my overriding concern w/rimfire is reliability regardless of which tests better, but I always learn something from your videos Sam so keep ‘em coming.
Light primer strikes for the most part are a non-issue in a revolver. Just pull the trigger again. No jams either. Great for women for shooting through their purse.
is that with Mag and WMR?
@@finchisneat 22 WMR (Winchester magnum rimfire) mag= WMR
The first firearm chambered in .22 magnum was the Marlin model 57M Levermatic carbine in 1959.
I'd like to see that. Too bad you can't post a picture.
I have read that Ruger beat them to it at releasing a revolver before that rifle was ever released. So maybe the rifle was indeed created first, and fired the first round, but the first .22 Mag firearm a consumer ever purchased and fired was a Ruger revolver in .22 WMR.
@@GunSam Some sources say that the Savage model 24 combo .410/.22 mag rifle was first, some say the Marlin was first. As is sometimes the case with firearms history, sources of information can differ. The introduction of this cartridge was 74 years ago, so facts can become fuzzy over time. The take away for me, is that Winchester was late to their own party…
My deceased ex father in law was a Sheriff deputy once upon a time in Sulphur, Louisiana. He had to take down a crazed bull in the middle of Sulphur many years ago. He used a 22 magnum rifle. 22 magnum goes in deeper than most people think.
I want to like Taurus revolvers.
As you honestly point out, your hands do not marry with your Taurus 3”.
I have a Heritage Rough Rider and it is nothing but fun. They are made by Taurus.
I have a 3” & a 5” Ruger 38 Revolvers and they are performers. The Odd size just appealed to me.
Dude, I've got arthritis in both hands but not RA. The fact that you shoot a revolver that well with RA is amazing.
Both rounds look good, but that .38 is pretty wicked. Don’t know how it would do in a snubbie, but in that 3” barrel it would be a very good home defense round. Great video Sam, thanks! 👍
Thanks, that was very interesting. I do carry a 3" .357 Magnum and I'm always looking for what .357/.38 do from it.
I carry a NAA 22 Magnum Revolver With me most of the time
Tell us more about your arsenal and especially your personal life
Beautiful little revolver!
Cool little revolver, I fumble with it between the size and hand health we'll say.
Is it the Black Widow? That’s the one I use.
About 5-6 years ago I purchased one, and I went with the Magnum because frankly, I could not hold the LR or Short version as my hands were too big. One time, I mean ONE time I went grocery shopping and decided to vest pocket carry the NAA, and the entire time (even though this is a low risk place to be) I was terrified. I went from my normal fearless walk, where if someone tried murdering people I could stop it, save my own life too....to feeling like I was carrying a toy that there's no possible way I could employ and hit a man before he killed me. It's better than nothing, but so it pepper spray.
I want to thank you for your videos. I've learned a lot from you and you are very pleasant to listen to. I ordered a Sidekick when they first came out. A fine firearm. I live in the forest of the Ozarks so, my firearm needs are much different than most people. My EDC is a Rossi 44 Mag lever action carbine and my sidearm is the Sidekick with the 22 LR cylinder, first two chambers filled with snake shoot and the next 7 with 22 LR hollow point. Now this is something I've never hear anyone say.. (Winchester Super X LR 40 GR, 1435 FPS HP) ammo generally expands from my 4" Sidekick. I have had had it expand to ".36" from this revolver! I kid you not. This ammo is one of the few on the market which will do so. It is hard to find where I live but,, when I find it I buy it. It runs great in my 10-22s also. This is just my experience,, your outcome may vary? Thanks again. Rev
Basic principle: seldom does anything beat cubic inches. The 125 gr 38+p has been performing well for decades. Many agencies used it, if they did not use the 158 gr LSWCHP +p. Semi jacketed bullets generally expand readily. The 357 version certainly does. I one had a suicide, contact chest shot, 4" bbl, Rem 125 gr +p SJHP. Went through the rib plate, tore up one side of the heart, evidence of expansion, and fragmented somewhat. Pathologist didn't bother finding the bullet, so I didn't see the actual expansion, but it was in the back muscles somewhere. They work. Glad to see the velocities were as stated. I love 3" barrels. A sensible split the difference option. You get almost full velocity, and the extra sight radius and forward weight vs a 2" certainly don't hurt. I wish the manufacturers made more 3" barrel versions. At least Ruger is on board with the GP100 in 357 snd 44 Spl, and the LCR(x) in 22 WMR and 38 SPL. And Kimber has the 3" K6, which i want, and Taurus the 3" 856 (and in the 90's they made L frame-ish 44 Spls in 3" also. Fortunately i have a Rossi 720 in 3" 44 Spl (only way it came, i think), which is a surprisingly nice gun.
Yes 3 inch revolveres are to rare. And Taurus is the only one who offer a medium frame 6 shot 3 inch airweight. A 3 inch K frame airweight from S&W would be perfect.
@@Gieszkanne The old Nightguards were intriguing. Scandium frames, 2.5" barrels, better triggers, and night sights. The K frame 38 was 24 oz i think. Even the N frames were only about 28 oz i think. I always thought the K frame 38 or the L frame 5 shot 44 Spl would have been interesting
@@troy9477 Yes but ther were expencive and now even used are rare. S&W should make just an aluminium K frame. Like the Model 12. They would be much cheaper. I guess the problem is that they could only fire .38 +p not .357 so it might not sell very good.
@@Gieszkanne Yeah i know the M12. A 3" alloy 38 might sell well. Most people wouldn't fire magnums in an alloy gun much anyway, despite the braggadocio that so many spew. I like my 2.25" SP-101 just fine, but i would not want it any lighter (25 oz). Kudos to Taurus, but i hear the QC on the 856 has been iffy. My 15 yr old 850 is fine, although the screw on the cylinder latch did back out a little. But that can happen with anything
@@troy9477 Yes they would fire it in .38 but would want it to be a .357!😂 Many people are irrational !
The .22 Magnum makes a great hunting/trail round in a revolver with at least a four inch barrel. It performs very much like a 22lr. does from a rifle. Perfect for anything up to coyote size. It would do for self defense if it had to. .38 Special is a much better self defense round. It would do as a trail gun.
Filmed 4/14/23
@@nicholasroberts9618 I have done that a bunch of times. It would take me some time to locate all the videos but I have done basically every weight and pressure of Remington HTP and or other versions of the scalloped SJHP Remington .38 Special ammo.
Great test. Yeah I will definitely stick with 38 special +p. I carry 38 special +p daily most of the year.
Thank you.
Hi Sam, I see your point and I would say that I think the two guns are meant to shine in different contexts. Let's say you are in the woods, or leave in the woods and you want or have to put some meat on the fire with what you have in your backpack. I think a .22 with adjustable sights may be better on small game, and leave it edible. It is kind of a small game round that can be used for defence, whereas the .38 cannot do both well, with defensive rounds.
This is true I have found for my experience with using .22 LR and even using .22 WMR in the forests for game ! Plus a box of .22 is smaller and lighter in your pack !
I’ve never had any problems with either ctg in the field and have used them for 50 + years !
Get a 357 and carry 38 ball in a speed loader
Strongly prefer 327 Federal Magnum and 32 H&R Magnum and 32 Long. The trigger is much lighter and smoother on center fire revolvers. Rimfire revolver triggers are pretty miserable.
The springs have to be stronger because of the rimfire need more powerfull strikes. Thats why 22 revolver isnt the best choise for older people with hand strength problems. A .32 would e much better.
@@Gieszkanne 100% correct and I’d argue easier to accurately shoot a 327 over a 22 Rimfire . Since the trigger is smoother and lighter.
@@GregoryAlcorn-o3g True
Thanks for the continued testing; always very informative. Now my interest is piqued in that .38spl 125gr SJHP +P configuration from Winchester and (I'm assuming) others. I've been looking to shoot something besides magnum rounds through my S&W 66 Combat Magnum with 2.75" barrel and have been seeking the right .38 +P round. I think I'm off-base with 158gr through shorter barrels; 125gr makes sense. Thanks again.
Speer used to load a very good 158 gr FMJ +p in their Lawman line. I used it a fair bit as practice ammo, and even for a club match with my 2.5" 66. It did quite well. I was even able to tag a seemingly reduced size bowling pin silhouette at 20 yards with 1 quick shot at the end of a stage. It was an optional target for bonus points/reduced time. Good ammo and burned clean. I think they still make it. I love that 66. I wore it as a court gun in uniform for years, in a black floral carved El Paso pancake holster. Good times long ago
@@troy9477 Speer definitely still makes it and I am familiar with it too. I'm looking for a defensive round though, something that'll expand well even when fired through a shorter (sub 4") barrel. I read another of your comments; i.e., the self-inflicted mortal wound created by the 125gr SJHP. That's the kind of round I'm looking to supply my model 66 with. Mine is the newer generation (love the 66 in general) with a 2.75" barrel and the full-length ejection rod. I've really taken a shine to that gun and fine myself going to it as much or more than my Sig 229 these days.
@@ObscureImages You sound like me. My 229 was my duty gun from 1997-2016. It reposes a few feet sway in honorable semi retirement as i speak. Aside from the 125 gr 38's, look at the Buffalo Bore 38+p 148 gr LSWCHP. This is the old FBI load, optimized. It is known to consistently reach 1000 fps, which is a game changer. It will not have the flash or blast of magnum rounds. Another good choice might be a midrange 357 load, specifically the 110 gr SJHP, formerly in the USA line (might be in the train and defend line now). It is essentially the old "Treasury" 38 +p+ load, in a magnum case. Rated at 1250 fps i think, in a 4" bbl. They used to come in nickel plated brass with a water sealed primer, which was nice. Shot a lot of it for practice ammo over the years. Manageable recoil. The few gel tests i have seen, it does pretty well. Not the equal of the full house 125 gr of course, but ballistically it compares favorably with 115 gr and 124 gr 9mm.
@@troy9477 Thanks for the info. I'm definitely going to put that Buffalo Bore on my list of ammo to try. All of the 110gr magnum rounds I've tried so far are too spicy for what I'm after. Essentially, I'm looking for some ammo to keep in the 66 in case my wife needs to pick it up. She will not train with 357 magnum, so no sense putting that in the gun. She'll shoot .38 spl +P though, so looking for that ideal load that'll penetrate and expand out of a short barrel.
spear gold dot, short barrel version is the key and best .38 special plus P of all. ive researched this a long time and thouroughly.
Another great show n good info
Thanks GunSame!!!!
I appreciate these "oddball" comparisons no one else thinks to do. They never take into account sectional density, which I think plays a huge part. It also firms up my belief that .32's, is the way to go for carry. My sp101 in 327 is a beast with the new 104 HST, and is my new car, backpacking carry. It's too much for the LCR, and the velocity drops 100 FPS. I recently purchased a 30 super carry S&W EZ, and have been playing with that. The great part they are the same caliber as the .327 .312 so I can use the same bullets reloading. It's also 200 FPS faster than a .32 H&R Mag with the 4" barrel. Don't think the 104 HST 327 would feed very well in the 30, because they came up with a different HST bullet for the super carry. One good thing about revolvers is they can get pretty radical on HP's and noses without feeding issues. The extra rounds that come with the .32's are a plus also.
Anyone interested in buying some 9mm's? LOL
Thanks again, and keep the vids coming.
Another great vid, GS.
Appreciate it. Always learn something, priceless!
Thank you.
22 mag doesn’t even come close to .38, even standard pressure .38 is leaps and bounds better than .22 mag
Its a rifle cartridge shoot it through a rifle you can get 300 ft lbs plus...
@@paulscountry456 while it is true that the .22 Magnum cartridge can be cycled through some rifles, the .38 special cartridge can also be fired through some rifles. When fired through a rifle it is even more impressive than a 22 mag through a rifle.
@@elijahparker7655 never said it wasn't a better defence round the 38, the 22 mag is not designed for pistols and the velocity you get is poor and not worth the extra cost over 22lr in a pistol.
@@paulscountry456 ah, my mistake, then. I apologize. I occasionally carry a .357/.38 DA/SA and a SAO .22 backup.
Two of the best performers in 22mag are the Speer Gold Dots and Federal Punch. I don't think they are just as good as .38 spl but you do get 7 rounds in the same size gun that holds 5 rounds of .38 spl.
I have both the Federal Punch and the Speer Gold Dot that designated SB !
Of all the material I have fired into I’m pleased with the results !
When carry , that’s what I like to carry ! Sometimes I carry my .357 when I go out !
High Standard Sentinel MK iV with Gold dots. It holds 9 shots as well. Disappointed he tested rifle ammo, not handgun ammo.
Hi Sam, thank you for testing that Winchester 125 grain 38 +p in the 3" barrel. The performance in the bare gel was great. I was slightly disappointed in the expansion through the denim and mdf, but I suppose it was predictable, and still pretty good. What are your thoughts on that round vs Critical Defense 110 grain +p out of the 3" barrel? Seems to me the Winchester wins through the bare gel since it probably has bigger expansion, but through the denim and mdf the performance of the two rounds are probably pretty similar. Thanks for all you do.
Yep practice is Key with any caliber, Great video as always 👍
My friend,
I found a good place for shooting in Seattle finally.❤❤❤
I hope I can upload some clips as soon as.
I see your beautiful clips. Thanks💕💕💕💕
Good test and show the real thing . Keep it up. I learning alot from here.
A little more technique puts a lot more lead on the target. Cool video Sam and thanks for all you do!!
Nice test and thanks for clarifying the misconception vs the reality. Excellent work Sam! ♠️🎩🎯🏁🏁🔱🌻🌸💮🌼🏴☠️🙈
GS. Good video with an interesting comparison. Thanks for putting this all together. Take care.
Instinctive shooting is hard to express great job be blessed Peace
If you watched the block's reaction when hit, the 22 mag failed to dump it's energy. So the penetration will obviously be greater than the round that transfered it's energy to the target. I'll take the 38 over the 22 mag all day. They are both really fun to shoot though.
Since showing a gun and/or firing pretty much anything at any bad guy makes everyone run it’s probably effective for most situations. Against wild animals probably not. Great videos by the way love your content
My favorite .22 ammo! The original and best loading in my opinion but my experience with this round comes from hunting with both a rifle and with a Single Six with a 5-1/2 inch barrel. I’ve taken game cleanly that’s considered by most to be way too large of a target for this caliber with both the rifle and the revolver. My 5-1/2 inch barrel makes more velocity of course than the 3 inch and I’m not an advocate of using the .22 mag for defense but for me, if that’s what I happened to be carrying at the time of need, I would not be too worried about it’s ability to get me out of harms way as long as I’m able to do my part.
I saw you pull that shot now I know what I look like when I pull one haha good video as always
There's one thing I can promise all of you. When you're getting poked full of holes, you're not going to be asking yourself "I wonder what caliber that hole is?".
Once upon a time a cowboy in the islands used to do certain things with .22lr, riddle them because cowboy knew that once the unfortunate got to the emergency/trauma operating room he was pretty much a goner, there is no way of taking out so much 22lr shrapnel
Fine vid Sam. Thanks!
.38 Special is a really great round, easy for the smallest person to shoot accurately and has plenty of proven street performance. I just cant use any rimfire for defense, theres always that chance it wont go off vs. centerfire even though its still rare, it happens more with rimfire and that one time you need it...
Many years before you were born, a gentleman named Bill Jordan wanted S&W to build a .22 Magnum on the Model 60 stainless J frame with an 8 shot cylinder. At the time the standard police round was the 158 gr round nose lead. He considered the .22 Magnum HP might have been more effective as an off duty/backup/concealed gun. It might be an interesting comparison.
Probably was long before I was born. That being said it's surprising how people think I was born anywhere from 1990 to 1995, when I was actually born in 1980.
@@GunSam His book, "No Second Place Winner" came out in the 1960s.
because bill jordan was a fast draw and trainined just as i do showing my draws on youtube, no second place winners, i can draw and carry my 22 mag snub giving me the advantage to put shots in the right spot despite being a 22 mag, we still have to have shot placment but if i am faster and more accurate i have the edge no matter what caliber my opponent has
That LCRx really is a sweet handgun. I gotta get me one of those
I see Dan's comment and I'm not going to argue with experience even though it is anecdotal. That 22Mag did better than I expected. I was kind of surprised by the 38 Spl. That's a hum drum loading that I wouldn't carry in a 2". But out of the 3", I would say its performance was nearly acceptable. It might stop a fight.
for every 22 lr you find where someone wasnt incapacitated you can find just as many that were not even by 9 mm
I really enjoy shooting .22 WMR in a 6.5” Single Six, but it’s best application is going to be in a rifle on varmints up to coyote size.
This is the reason why I would go with the .357 revolver because you can also fire .38's out of it too!
Hard to be impressed with these 3 inch barrel numbers after seeing your sub 2 inch barrel 327. Also disappointing that its just a 6 round cyclinder 22
what a bout a .38 special vs a kel-tec PMR !!
Good test.
I also prefer the 3 inch snubbie.
Good vid. Very interesting. Thanks
Can you link a source to the columbine incident where they had the 75 yards mentioned? Thanks so much. Great work here Sam
22 mag will eat your insides. There is replacement for displacement.
Both calibers can be effective for
self defense with good shot placement.
That said, both calibers will be ineffective with poor
shot placement for self defense.
Bottom line, do whatever is best for you.
My Uncle owns a Ruger SP101 357 Magnum yet won’t use 357 Ammo. Why didn’t he just get a 38 instead? People get on my nerves!😂
The gun is heavier due to .357, so recoil would be better for 38SP & +P ammo
Is that a Crimson Trace grip on your 22mag, and which holster are you using?
Pinned here in this video, I explain both of those. ruclips.net/video/2xGuqANI2L4/видео.html
Fair conclusions - and consonant with intuition. The argument, I believe, goes like this: "yeah, but a .22 is so easy to control, you'll hit your target, and a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with an elephant gun." Or: "You can make head shots with a .22, but a centerfire round is harder to control." While both statements are true, they're not really relevant. In the heat of an exchange, between adrenalin and maneuvering, precision of shot placement is nonexistent - regardless of caliber. Logic dictates that as long as the gun you are shooting is controllable (not a .460), a bigger bullet stands a better chance of putting your assailant down. A .22 is not a viable or practical defensive weapon for you if you can control a .38 or a .40 S&W, for example. And there is a LOT to be said for a high-capacity magazine; MOST shots will not hit your target, regardless of distance. But I think we all know that - just on instinct, don't we?
Isn’t tumble effective, if it’s after initial impact? If a tumbling 22 makes a wound channel similar to a mushrooming 38, and achieves similar penetration, (I get energy factor) are we playing in the same ballfield?
I am impressed with the 22
Thank you sir 🙏
I'd like to see the .38 Winchester SJHP compared to the .38 Remington SJHP in 2- and 4-inch barrels.
7:13 the .38 penetrated that far because you put it into the previous hole. Try putting it somewhere else in the block.
Sam have you ever thought of putting another MDF and denim between the blocks to make a more realistic pass thru. Just a suggestion
I have thought about it, but then again maybe only 10% or rounds make it to 19" so I haven't put a ton of thought into it.
Would love to see .327 H&R, Federal Magnum, compared to .38 special.
Standard pressure 38 special is one of my absolute favorite rounds (not a big +P fan) with the 32 Long and H&R close behind but I have to admit that 8 rounds of 22 mag has a certain charm.
I don't put much stock in energy numbers but gel work gives a better look. Is the 38 more effective? Yes. Is the 22 mag a dog? I don't think so.
Does the Taurus trigger have to go all the way back to release? If not than a trigger stop would make sense.
I only get underwood, buffalo bore and cor bon 38 special. Those would dominate the 22 mag
.38 special plus P with speer gold dot short barrel version is god and the best! no 22 anything fucks with it
Thanks
Wow! Great 👍 vid! U keep it legit!
RoaR
Doesn't matter that caliber What matters In shop placement
For subsonic cartridges you should use momentum (p=m*v), but for super sonic performance, you should use kinetic energy (ke=.5*m*v*v).
Kinetic energy is irrelevant in a handgun.
terrific toys
I had a neighbord long time ago who tryed take his life with a 22(head/ear shot), still alive untill today, blind but alive...
a guy from robbinsdale minnesota i met shot in head with a 38 and still alive, its not about caliber but where the bullet hits
My uncle shot himself with a 22lr in the head and he passed away ..I was bout 5yr old ..we got home a couple minutes later and he was doing that death rattle noise ..it was some scary and sad shit man..just don't underestimate them , it's a very capable and underestimated round
better than a sharp stick
muzzle energy in ft/lbs doesnt matter if shot placment isnt right including a 155 howitzer on my army base, you miss someone all that energy didnt matter, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement, a 22 lr in the right spot is better then a 155 howitzer in the wrong spot, waisted energy
odd? cylinder on that 22 mag. Why not a full size cylinder bored out for more rounds and normal, good looking gun?
That 38special +p charge seems very poor in energy to me
👍😊🎯
does .22 Mag rival .32 S&W long 98 grain wadcutters?
I'll take 22mag rifle for plinking any day. Pistol,I'm packing 38sp
I like .22 mags but not for carry.
👍
No!
Only in your imagination
Algorithm
Next video: Putting .22 fan boys and trolls in their place.
First I will pit the .22 against the 625 grain .50. That will be shot out of the Bush Master.
Second a .22 vs the standard .50.
Third .22 vs .454 Casull.
Fourth .22 vs .44 Magnum.
Fifth .22 vs .44 special.
Sixth .22 vs .357 Magnum.
Seventh .22 vs 9mm.
Eighth .22 vs 8.5X55 Blaser.
Ninth .22 vs .32 ACP.
Tenth .22 vs 5.7X28.
This video will make those unrealistic perspective,, glory mind filled .22 fan boys cry.
If you put a Ruger MKII 5.5" or 6 6/8" against the list >> 3 pair of eggs @ 30 ft . for time , shoot only one of the 2 eggs .. the bad egg ... if you hit the hostage egg you lost . The MK II will beat almost every one EASY , a few depend on the gun , but they will need to run to perfection the beat the MKII . Keep bullet travel = ...... a good hit with a 22Lr is better than a miss with an ultra mag blaster .
@@danoneill2846 A pinky finger can break an egg shell. What did you prove!
for every 22 lr you find where someone wasnt incapacitated you can find just as many that were not even by 9 mm
muzzle energy in ft/lbs doesnt matter if shot placment isnt right including a 155 howitzer on my army base, you miss someone all that energy didnt matter, shot placement, shot placement, shot placement, a 22 lr in the right spot is better then a 155 howitzer in the wrong spot, waisted energy
@Libra7 First off, I want to thank you for serving our great country. To keep all of us safe and secure. From the various evils out there.
If a 155mm howitzer missed a steel vehicle. Yes no damage done. If the same round. Shot through a crowd of enemy solders. Without the round, not physically touching a single solder. The vacume created by the round. Would pull their eyes. Right out of their skull. Killing them instantly. Which the .22 is not capable of accomplishing.
Which swings where I was going. To now the hand goes to the biggest and most powerfull mortars. Vs the much the much more tiner bullets🙃?😄
Algorithm