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@@thalentekhuluse2829Because this is literally not Danny anymore. They completely butchered her character and replaced her with some alter ego in these last three episodes. He just realized it
@@thalentekhuluse2829 He also seems a bit too obsessed with the idea of some male chosen warrior. Truth is jon may be a better person than Dany but in this world that would get him killed. Look what happened at the nightswatch. His own men turned on him. Again he made a dumb emotional decision and charged at Ramsey loosing most of the wildlings. He also does not evoke enough fear a d respect. Lord Glover straight up decided not to join in the war against the literal dead because he disagree with his kings decision. Rob would have executed him for that. Dany is a just and kind person ,but also ruthless enough to keep this world in line
“Why does she care about the throne” thats the most baffling question ever asked in regards to daenys behaviour. Everything she has gone through for every season of this show was with that goal mind, all the suffering and heartbreak and betrayal and fighting. she isnt going to just forget her goal because shes fallen for jon…
Honestly, the off-screen shooting of Rhaegal was king of absolutely ridiculous scenes. No matter how you look at it, this is something completely stupid that can never happen at least not as it was filmed here. A dragon can surprise people on ships but the opposite? No way. Absolutely no way. They would have seen them from miles away before coming at target range. Plus to have this precision on a flying target and from such a far distance, one would need a true sniper weapon of 100% accuracy of modern warfare. No, crossbows and ballistae can't have this accuracy at this distance, let alone on flying targets. Laughable at best. Plus you can't really kill dragons this easily, their hide is much tougher.
Harder than steel actually 😂 scorpion bolts exist in the books they cannot pierce the scales of an adult dragon. Especially not from that distance the show was long dead before this nonsense though
@@leonrobinson2475 Yeah well, its called fantasy lore. And it exists so that we can discuss these things. Thankfully the original writers delve a lot into these things, into their works. Fortunately for us.
@@hokagedlo6133 I wouldn't go so far to call it dead, but I agree that they did a decent number of crap things the further down the road which felt downhill for sure, things that could have been avoided or at least better implemented.
As much as I hated the last season, and i hate to say it but it makes sense why Danny reacted like this. She faced real defeat for the first time in Westeros. She lost her children, lost her lvoed ones and lost her army. The only thing that remained constant is those advisors, missandei and greyworm, and her claim to the iron throne. Losing it would mean her journey is all in naught. I would compare it to Cersei and her dealing with her losses, making her even more cruel than before. The only difference, being Danny was set up to be the good person and Cersei was evil from the start. If they had spent more time developing how Danny’s dealt with her loss, this would have made a better scene. Cersei took 6 seasons of character development from the loss of family even though she won her schemes and wars, but Danny took 1 season of losing wars and losing her family and children to descend into paranoia. Yes she experience minor losses and 1 major loss of her husband but it was never developed on HOW she negatively reacted to the losses. Prolly why it just feels outvof character.
the whole 'Mad Queen' arc never made any sense. Yea Dany went through so much shit in the last season, but her whole life had been nothing but overcoming adversity; I mean she literally started the show being pimped out by the only family she had left. So even if the season had been developed over a longer time, I still think the 'Mad Queen' arc was never the way Dany would react to the challenges she encountered in the last season.
@@malamark04 Exactly, what use were those precious conversations between Arya the cupbearer and Tywin Lannister about admiration for the sisters of Aegon and the Dragons, The Starks cannot be so ungrateful, nor can Aerys be Mother Teresa compared to Daenerys, the last chapters are a parody and nonsense and it hurt me so much that I have not seen them again
@@malamark04 Didn't she tell the 13 she would burn cities to the ground. Fire and blood I believe. The signs were there but people just loved all the good things she did so much they looked past how crazy she was. I'm ok with her going full send just not how it actually happened with the bells ringing and her saying the hell with it. It was disappointing.
@@dustinjackson3318 I agree with you completely. I have watched the whole show four times and almost all the GOT reaction channels and I think that people were so invested in the idea that Dany was the hero that they ignored all the crazy stuff that she did in some of the earlier seasons. For me, it started gradually with the crucifixion of the masters of Yunkai (S6). From the audience’s perspective, people cheered for it because it involved the villains, but from an objective point of view, what she did was quite atrocious.
@@malamark04 Yes her whole life is about overcoming adversity i do agree. What matters is how she overcome her adversity. She ruled parts of Essos through tyranny, nothing unlike the Masters, even if she does treat the Masters and the freed slaves equally. I dont have any problems with that. The thing is, she grew up her whole life overcoming her adversities overwhelmingly, and believing that her purpose is to reclaim the 7 kingdoms. Now she’s faced major defeat of her armies multiple times for the first time in her life. She lost her dragon children whom she loved more than humans. And she was told that the true heir is Jon and not her, which defies her belief ever since she was a child. After the war, during the feast, she realised the houses and the free folks truly loves Jon, while she does not have much whom she could trust. She felt more alone than ever. If she were to throwaway her belief that she was born to rule the 7 kingdoms and accept that Jon is the true heir, it’s basically telling her that her whole life is a lie. That’s why i said it would make sense, if you face major defeat, lose your loved ones and your sense of identity, you would grasp at straws in order to retain what’s left that makes you, you. I dont like it because they dont develop this enough.
@@thinkhector , yeah, but one would still think that they always scout ahead, especially when they are in an open war with someone who just backstabbed them. How can all these seasoned warriors around her not be prepared is beyond me. Although, it's also hardly surprising, because an episode ago they sent their entire cavalry to charge blind in the dark against a force of a hundred thousand zombies.
@@thinkhector She wouldn't have felt safe. She already had experience with the weapon and the power of its bolt. Dumb and Dumber have no excuses. They even forgot Dany had spoke about the fleet in a previous episode. She wouldn't have forgotten about it even if the show runners did.
The interactions between Jon and Dany make sense. Her purpose in life has been to take back the iron throne and she has been through a lot to get there. She has always been confident that she will take it, but the closer she gets to it, the more obstacles there are. Finding out Jon is the true heir is a big threat because if people knew, they would want him to be King over her. To fight your whole life for something to then potentially lose it to someone who didn't even know they were in the race, she's panicking. She's now the closest she's ever been to the throne and she's realised she doesn't have the following Jon does. She can see her goal fading away and she's doing everything she can to keep hold of it. Nothing is as important to her than getting the throne so it makes sense she's being the way she is. She cares for Jon, but she cares for the throne more. As for Jon, not only has he just found out some huge, potentially life changing news, he's likely also being a bit off with her because he's found out she's his aunt. For Targaryens it's not so odd, but for everyone else incest would be frowned upon. He's not grown up in a place where that is normal practise so he's probably feeling very conflicted.
I was seeing their way too. But I understand this comment here. She had been fighting all this time to get back to westeros to claim the throne. So I get that.
I can't fully put into words the disservice D&D did to her character by not showing more of Dany's prophecies and dreams, and by not including any of her obsession over the "mummer's dragon" and "three betrayals" that those prophecies infected her with. They were willing to adapt Cersei's prophecy semi-accurately, but they didn't even try with Dany. Really detracts from the tragedy of her character
Jon has never been allowed to get what he wants and he has the aura that she had whilst liberating the slave cities.. Jon has never wanted to lead but he was made to lead.. her claim would be undermined and they would try assassinate her to force Jon to be king.. not understanding Danny wanting to be Queen doesn’t make sense in the context of this show and landscape because even in HOD Rhaenys most quotable line to Alicent “have you never imagined yourself on the Iron throne”.. it’s literally the whole goal.. and Danny has had visions of herself on there (one of her gifts) now imagine seeing all your visions come true and this is the last one.. that conviction you must have about your life and it’s purpose.. her reactions make sense
Look, if you can recall, Dany has been petulant since season 2. "My, my my! My throne this! My throne that!" She's always had people there to check her worst impulses. And now she's lost 2 people that were her closest friends. Holy shit! I think the point is, at the end of this episode, is that you want her to do something MAJOR and see what happens as a result. P.s. Rhaegal's demise was kind of foreshadowed last season when Tyrion spoke to Dany about his concerns of her using the dragons.
19:00 *DANY IS 100% IN THE RIGHT.* _"Continuing the thread that what tips Dany over the edge is rejection. Yes! We are really doing this! She is a woman scorned! Goodbye seasons of discussion about whether the ends justify the means. Goodbye seasons of dealing with various setbacks, developing opinions of her own, and earning respect. We’re reducing it all down to _*_“nobody likes Dany, she feels entitled to their love, and now she is angry.”_*_ Incidentally, why haven’t people softened towards Dany? Who was, after all, riding on a dragon just like Jon, and saving a lot of lives? We’ll get to that in a few scenes._ _Again, the fact that Dany gets angry and emotional about the prospect of losing her claim in Westeros is part of the depiction of a general downward trend in sanity and upward tendency to assume her power as an inherent moral good. The problem here is that a) Dany’s not wrong that Jon poses a political threat to her, whether either of them like it or not, and b) this character’s arc shows some good sound reasons for wanting power - to protect her own agency, at the very least, to say nothing of her broader politics. If Dany was forced to concede the throne, her ability to decide what she does with her own life is sharply reduced. Her ability to achieve what she wants to do in the world (things like ending slavery and oppression) is sharply reduced._ _In short, this is a scene and a situation where getting angry and upset is an entirely reasonable reaction. At best, this doesn’t work to depict a character with declining mental stability. At worst (and I believe worst), the very fact that a woman has emotions is being turned into part of a narrative where her emotions render her unsuitable to do things such as provide a reliable perspective or wield any form of power._ _The narrative of Dany’s “hysteria” is advanced by focusing disproportionately on her emotional reaction the dilemma, without an equal and counterbalancing focus on Jon’s side of the problem. Through this conversation, Jon’s offered simple rebuttals to more complex statements from Dany. I owe my siblings the truth. Sansa won’t plot against us. The truth will not destroy us. You are my queen and nothing will change that. What’s missing here is any sort of explanation as to why Jon believes these things. The lack of explanation leaves Jon’s character underdeveloped and shifts disproportionate focus to Dany’s reasoning and motivations."_ *-TURTLE PACED*
You guys should definitely check out the memes from this seazon. I remember my favorite one was the question "How good are you at keeping secrets?" and then the scale was from Ned to Sansa... lol
It's not even a turn. He's rightfully pissed. He's been jerked around for years by each of the Lannister siblings now, being promised some bigger fortune in the future to do a deed now and they've not delivered on the biggest promises. By not killing the brothers, he's once again banking on a future scenario and a Lannister promise. Also, he's a sell sword. Sure, he became friendly with Tyrion, but he's a sell sword. First and foremost.
@@Hollygli Exactly. From day one we've known Bronn is a mercenary. Remember when asked if he would kill babies when ordered to, without question? He replied that it would NOT be without question... his question would be "For how much?" His own welfare, riches and status and such will always come first. That's who and what he has been this whole time. So he is being very much in character, imo. The only reason he talked to them first at all, is because he is friendly with Tyrion
@@raianthony8492 Yeah, he was a sellsword, he never really "turned", he stayed true to his character. He may have had friends sometimes, but he never let that get in the way of looking after number one. The only question he'd ask if offered a contract job (on _anyone_ ) is "how much are you paying me?"
Mind blowing Spartan doesn’t understand why Dany feels that way. “It’s just a nuance” …. Dude it’s not . Being the one on the throne and the one NEXT to the one on the throne is a MASSIVE difference. She fought her entire life so SHE could be on the throne. Of course she doesn’t want to see that fail when she’s finally so close to it actually happening . It doesn’t feel good to see her come to clash with Jon and the Starks but she’s totally justified in feeling that way.
10:58 Bran has become such a boring and useless character. It's so frustrating. He says he doesn't want anymore, and then later admits he came all the way to King Landing to assume power because he knew that was his destiny. 🙃
If Dany just wanted a good life free of Westeros politics she never would have left Mereen. She wants to sit on the iron throne, and she has given up everything to do that. Sitting next to the iron throne isn't worth everything she's given up in her eyes and if Jon tells everyone who he is the decision is taken out of their hands. What I will agree with is that the writing could have better explained her position beyond "I'm scared that you could be king instead of me". But most of the last season is summed up by "this has good bones but needed more time and better writing"
"I don't want to be his queen. I want to go home" "I fought so that no child born in slaver's bay would ever known what it meant to be bought or sold. I will continue that fight here and beyond. but this is not my home"
@Nihilanth exactly, totally agree. She didn't care for any of the people that loved her overseas more than she cared about a country she barely lived in and a throne shes never seen. So why would she sacrifice anything for Jon? She doesn't care about being a queen, and she doesn't care about westeros. She cares about being queen of westeros.
20:08 that's the point of "game of thrones" it's to be the ruler, ofcurse it matters to danny since id say season 2 that was her main goal. stannis and renly are from the same family..it didnt stop them from fighting over the throne..that's the point of the show.
I really hated this episode. All the characters seem really nasty with each other. They just exist now to move the plot on. I also really hated how Dany losing a dragon to an enemy is just repeated. One against the Night King and another now. It just feels like a lazy way to remove them.
Remember when Jon was interesting but now he only says "you are me queens" or "she is our queen" Defford should watch pitch meetings and honest trailers lol
Since season 1, all Dany wants was to go home. She have that goal to get back the Iron Throne since Season 1, that motivates her to be strong and have the power that will help her to get that throne. Now for so many times, she tried to talked peacefully to Cersei (she followed their advices), but she still lost Missandei and she lost Rhaegal and some of her soldiers, when they just wanted to go back at Dragonstone after the Great War. I can't blame her when she want mad (because she f*cking tried not to start war, yet she still lost a lot). Losing those innocent people's lives and burning the city is brutal, but the viewers should know that she tried not to do that (but Cersei provoked her to)
such bad writing. The dragons were flying to spot an ambush they would have seen Euron’s fleet way before they were in range. This episode was where the show went of the cliff. (though last episode arya killing night king was the start of the total crap writing) Spartan totally saw the random and out of character issues in this ep and there were many.
I hate what they did to Dany. It contrasts everything she's ever been, she's a conquerer with the biggest army, who cares if she's the true heir. And why was she alone at the table if she has Missandei and Grey Worm, they wanted her to look lonely when she is not. Awful writing, if they wanted it to make sense they should've made more episodes
And Rhaegal... How did they kill a dragon flying in the sky with a scorpion that is attached to a boat that is moving ??? Nonsense. And everyone forgetting about the iron fleet? They know Cersei is with them because they know about the golden company, so...
The reason why she said "dracareys" is because she was the last one in her life who kept her blood thirst at bay and now she's giving her permission to let it loose🔥🔥🔥 that was the last best part of this show
Sansa and Varys did exactly what Dany feared they would do if they found out Jon (sorry, I mean Aegon 🙄) was the true heir though… try to install him on the throne. So her paranoia wasn’t completely unfounded.
@@hullmees666 what actions? wanting to take the red keep? like literally anyone would want in her position? what did he think would happen when dany showed up asking for the throne when he decided to support her?
The writing from this episode till the end was a mess, but saying Dany here was paranoid for wanting the support of the people that her dragon and her oldest advisor died for is hilarious .
@@andyfern8923 After watching this reaction I think I need to cleanse my eyes and ears with that video again. It's very informative and everyone who is still on the fence about how Dany's character arch turned out in the show should check it out. By the way, anyone out there who says the books will end the same should check out GRRM talking about how he was not involved in the slightest with the last two seasons, because Dumb and Dumber completely cut him out of the conversation. So the jury is very much still out.
@@hopemikaelson9223 gonna watch it as well (always do when a reactor gets to this point in the show). Really glad you agree on how good that video is. It's probably my favourite non official asoiaf content out there 😊
@@andyfern8923 I mean in the books Danny is having mad queen moments basically from the moment she has power. Whoever thought a lifelong abuse victim with a superiority complex would make a moral and responsible leader when suddenly thrust into power is a lunatic.
Watching Spartan's absolute disgust flare up whenever Cersei comes up in conversation, or whenever she's on screen, is one of my favorite parts of these reactions. 🤣
@@unnamed5603yeah she and Joffrey’s actor said they’ve been harassed in public but I recall her saying she took it as a compliment that she played her part well or something of that nature so she’s classy too.
@@keef5 This is the dumbest thing i've ever read. If the audience hates the villan then the actors and writers have done a great job developing the character. It means the audience are invested in the story and actually care about a character that's not "real". That's the point of good fictional story telling.
feels a bit weird that he didnt realize why dany was acting like that, after having seen HOTD season 1 and how it a male heir would always be the #1 prio, thats what she is afraid of here.
Yeeeeeah. I'm getting a bit done with Spartan. They watched House of the Dragon, a show where the whole POINT of it is how in Westeros, no matter how good a choice a female heir will be, the moment there's a male, the fight is on to make the male child the heir instead. That's the WHOLE STORYLINE of HOTD, and he just blows Dany's fears off as paranoia because it doesn't fit in his "Epic Jon Snow" daydreams.
You misunderstand. It has nothing to do with being the male heir. Jon would be the true heir even if he was a woman because he's the child of the Mad King's oldest son.
@@yarsaz4347 You misunderstand. It has nothing to do with being the "true heir". He certainly was before he made his vows to the Night's Watch. And as he vowed to renounce* all titles and claims, he is unable to utilise the same get-out clause that allowed him to walk away from the Watch. Can't walk away from that renunciation tho bro... * You don't get a do-over when you renounce your inheritance. The next in line moves up and there are no take-backsies. Thus Danaerys, as the last _legitimate_ (i.e., qualified by virtue of birth and by not having renounced her birthright) Targaryen, gets to ait the Iron Throne
Because that's not at all what he was saying, and this shouldn't be a surprise since you've seen this show. Their house is what matters, and Spartans point is that the Targaryens would be restored to the throne regardless of who sits on it. He is not thinking in terms of "Me me me". Though yes, he should register that Dany is, as your point of having seen the show goes, it's established that the House is what matters, and that how he's observing it.
She realises that they love him way more than her, indeed an important scene. “A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing” Maester Aemon was right as always.
The inherited madness theory of Targaryans is stuppid. Everybody can get to his breaking point and start to act mad. The Mad King wans´t mad from the beginnings, but turned mad and paranoid, when he was imprisoned for half a year in the dungeon of some lord
@@williamshelton4318 She had to be talked off the ledge of burning and pillaging multiple times in the series. Its always her first instinct. Jorah always talked her down but he's dead.
Dany isn't paranoid. Dany just knows Westerosi history. You guys watched House of the Dragon. You KNOW she's right. The moment the people learn that there's a male heir, the female heir will be tossed aside. And neither of them will be able to stop what happens. This is what history has taught everyone. Don't pretend that it's all just in her head.
It's not out of character for Bronn. He's always been about himself. He was willing to let Tyrion die because he had no intention of getting hurt himself for no money. Or, not as much money as Tywin had already given him.
They started their game of thrones journey by titling their videos “HOTD fans watch GOT.” Yet they somehow can’t put together that a male heir being known could mean death for Dany and her people.
@@heyarnoldfan12 Why would it mean death for Dany lmfao HotD had two established factions fighting against each other. There was no love between Aegon and Rhaenyra. That's not the case here. There is no “Jon Snow” faction wanting to remove Daenerys. Jon Snow himself does not want the throne. Also, he'll be marrying Dany. There is no situation where Jon Snow becomes King = Death for Dany and her people
@@hamzakhattak8309 Sansa is literally the one who pushed the secret getting out. The north and their allies could be a faction right there. You didn’t see it develop because it was 2 episodes from the time word got out about it until the show ended.
@@heyarnoldfan12 It still wouldn't mean death for Daenerys. That's my point here. There is no world where Jon Snow kills Daenerys for the throne. Jon Snow had no interest in the throne. I don't need for it to develop. 8 seasons is enough for me to know Jon's personality. There is also no world where Jon Snow is used as a puppet by Sansa either (like the Greens did with Aegon in the show).
I hate how the dragon was killed as it was so easy to explain properly. The dragons were providing air cover for the fleet, so the iron fleet could have been spotted and the dragon killed when attacking the iron fleet making Dayneris fly away resulting in the exact same outcomes. That moment is an example of the lack of care/time saving/cost saving that damages the final season
He used cloaking technology he stole from the klingons to hide his fleet. Then he used heat seeking missiles and rail guns with laser guided tracker to shoot the dragon but dont worry they are a one time weapon and cant be used again and the iron fleet itself has a long cool down😂
Truth is it would be almost impossible for a hard to move ballistae to shoot down a dragon. World war 2 machine gun that were infinitely more accurate and maneuverable struggled to land any hits on lightly armoured fighter plans. Plus ww2 plans were actually less maneuverable especially when attacking ships in a straight line than the dragons shown here.
what I love the most is D&D's explanation "Dany just kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet" while she was talking about them specifically like 2 episodes ago. I'm so sad it has all gone to shit, but I guess it's good S&P are enjoying it, since they are probably not thinking about it too much while watching.
What it came down to is three things. D and D were lazy and tired of doing the series and was ready to end it and move on. Number 2 the budget would save money by getting rid of another dragon, and number 3 it would be hard to see any scenario where Danny could lose if she had 2 dragons. ( which I thought was the point of how strong the house was because it controlled dragons)
Indeed. Competence should be more relevant than the desire - or lack thereof - to sit a throne. We've already see, as Lord Commander and in command in The Battle of the Bastards, he's not actually that good in higher leadership positions.
The one time Jon could have benefitted from following the example of Ned Stark. Ned hid the truth from his family, knowing it was more important to prevent the negative outcome that would happen if everyone knew the secret. Jon chose a bit of extra closeness with his family at risk of some negative outcomes.
Ned was doing it to protect his nephew's life, so it was about choosing family and keeping his promise to his sister. He did it for love, just as Jon does what he does for love of his family. Jon faces essentially the same conflict as Ned and does "whatever is right", as specified in season 1, when Maester Aemon tells him that most men are not so strong. But doing right by his family is also doing right for the realm, the same as it was for Ned, both sacrificing their public honor in order to save lives. Ned wasn't wrong; the reason he died and war exploded was because Joffrey ignored the brokered deal, and had him executed in order to play to mob.
is anyone surprised? Jon has always been very....naive, to put it kindly. That's why he was killed in the first place, seems he learned nothing about politics. Ned keeping his promise doesn't just protect his nephew and honors his sister but also protects his family and the entire North from Robert's rage.
@@sleepforever3494 Why couldn't HBO step in when they saw the quality declining so much? Pay GRRM whatever it took to come back on board. Get Bryan Cogman back, he seemed to know what he was doing.
Being the queen, as the wife of the king, is vastly different from being The Queen and ruler. It's about who holds the power and how that would affect what you can and cannot do (or have the power to do). The queen will always (in the context of the era this is based on) be subordinate to the king, even as 'joint rulers'. Dany has been fighting for her place as sovereign of her own life as much as of the seven kingdoms. Likely, in her mind the two go hand in hand, and giving up her position as the rightful ruler will mean having to give up her sovereignty over her own life as well. This is a big theme in HOTD.
You'd think that having watched HOTD they'd be more attuned to such concerns. It's like they don't remember any of that series and its themes. But in a "Jon's my boy!" world, getting what they want for him (not even what Jon wants or doesn't want for himself) is paramount.
Exactly, and how do they not understand that Dany has seen how everyone loves Jon, they would be completely loyal to him as opposed to her, she's not getting the love and knows if people find out about Jon's heritage the people would never accept her even with Jon saying he doesn't want the Throne, to the people they would never see her or accept her as the rightful queen. So they could never rule together she would always be 2nd to Jon and that is not what her legacy is, that's not what she has been striving for and fighting for her whole life. So Spartans whole thing about why is she acting that way and they can just eile together is funny he can't see why it won't work!
It’s clear what Danny is saying to Jon. She knows that the more people who find out will want to put Jon on the throne no matter what loyalties he swears to her as he is the true heir and a man. Jon is an idiot here. The same stupidity that got Rob and Ned killed.
@@williamerazo3921I agree, and in the books, rheynera didn't even hate her siblings at first. It was the political climate which made them hate each other. It only got worse with the Hightower fuckery.
Jon and Dany should have married. That would have been the logical move. Both have a claim to the throne, Jon a bit better but Dany is the one with the dragons (thus with real power).
I agree with Pudgy, it's very easy to look at it from Daenerys' perspective. She had to run away as a baby, she didn't grow up like a princess, she never really had a home. She's been mistreated and abused her whole life, and she's managed to bounce back by doing things no one else could, like bringing the dragons back to the world and taking the Dothraki across the seas. Now she's back in Westeros, and the only thing she can hold on to is the Iron Throne, because she has nothing left, but then she finds that even that can be taken from her. Why should she give up?
Yup and she knows if people find out she will never be accepted and everyone will want Jon on the throne regardless of what he says, and she is pushed aside again.
for the same reason(s) Jon did. He was always a bastard, always an outsider, hated by Cat, never knowing who is mother was, what his lineage was, getting left out of everything, leaving for the wall since there was nothing for him at Winterfell, nothing to inherit, etc. he had nothing, earned everything, and gave it all away far easier than he earned it... because it was the right thing to do. that's the difference with Jon and Danny. Jon does actually care about what's right. Danny believes what's right for her is right for all. Doesn't really matter how they got to these positions, both had rough lives, both lost loved ones, both had to fight for everything... but Jon stayed humble and Danny became a dictator... might as well call her, Gollum. a good soul, corrupted by power...
@@oktober-vh6gl well, I think you misunderstood my comment. I said it's easy to understand Danny's perspective, that given everything she's been through it's understandable that she doesn't want to give up the throne. Jon's case is different. OBVIOUSLY HE ALSO SUFFERED, but it's different. Yes, Jon was mistreated by Catelyn, but only by her. He grew up in a castle, having the education and care of a nobleman, even though he was a "bastard". Even that point makes him stand out over other bastards on the wall, who had a miserable life indeed. Jon doesn't want the throne. He has a home, he feels like home in Winterfell, he has his family. Daenerys does not. As I said, the throne is what's left for her, so she doesn't want to give it up. And in regards to what happened in the last two episodes, it's just bad writing. Martin will develop all these conflicts in a correct way, even though they are the same events.
@@raymondjames9283 Right? Bron is one of the few characters that didn't act out of character, and that's the one that bothers him, not Jaime throwing away all his progress, not Tyrion being a moron the entire season, not Bran being completely useless, not Varys betraying Daenerys for no reason, not Cersei not killing Danareys and her dragon when she had a chance, none of them, Bron is the one acting out of character lmao, ridiculous
@@vvthetalentlessduo6976huh? The fuck you mean she never shined as an actress? She was outstanding throughout the entire show. Talk about bullshit opinions. Writing in the end sucked but she was a great actress throughout
Bronn is 100% in character for going after who he is paid to kill, and also shows how much he appreciates Tyrion by not killing him straight away and giving an opportunity for negociation
What's out of character is trusting Cersei will keep her word and not kill him when the job is done. That's the stupidity of it all, Bronn knows better than that.
@@sbj2k1 Thats why he didn't do it instantly, bro. He was aware of that, but it gave him the upper hand in negotiating an even better deal with those 2.
@@sbj2k1 Lannisters always pay their debts. I don't know why you wouldn't trust Cersei in this spot. Killing them was extremely important to her. It's the two Lannister brothers that kept screwing Bronn over, not Cersei.
20:08 "Why should she care?" oh cmon now.... she has worked for that throne for 8 seasons. that has been the goal she dedicated her entire life to. obviously she cares.
No Spartan if Dany becomes queen by marriage than the ruler is not her, throne is not hers it’s Jon’s - ruling and succession will come down to Jon and whatever he says will go; she already sees that Jon is torn between her and his Stark family which does not give her much reassurance
13:00 ; i always thought that look on her face was to show how much doubts she’s starting to have. I think that her seeing John surrounded by people admiring him might’ve made her felt like they’d choose him over her. But that’s how I saw it
It's definitely how it was meant to be seen. Think about it. Jon was being praised for doing the exact same thing Dany was also doing during the battle.
@@hullmees666 then I’m glad I wasn’t wrong as someone who « watched » GoT troughout their reactions lol! I was being careful because I didn’t wanna get scolded if I got it wrong😅🤣
‘Why would she care’ She uhhhhh kinda fought for it her entire life and accomplished the impossible to get it whilst Jon can saunter in and potentially take it all from her because he’s a man. She didn’t do it all to be the king’s queen. She did it all to be THE queen.
Yeah, all her life, all she's wanted is to tell everyone else what to do and how to live their lives, on a throne she has zero right to sit on. He's lucky she never had him burnt to death. She would have eventually.
@@voidofme9192 wtf does that comment have to doi with LOTR? Unless youre implying Aragorn also had no right? Except Aragorns line wasnt deposed like the Targaryens were, a steward sat the throne awaiting the kings return.
@@voidofme9192 He's not Bran. He's not a lord. Did you kinda forgot?? 😂 Jokes aside, I bet for some ppl even the Three-Eyed Raven deserved the throne more than Daenerys 💀💀 Ahh seazon 8... MADNESS. MADNESS, AND STUPIDITY.
I’m sorry, but I’ve been trying to restrain myself from commenting this for a while. Idk how Spartan thinks that all of a sudden Dany’s goal of the iron throne is something new or that why is she so determined for it. Like for the whole 8 seasons that’s all she wanted. Obviously she doesn’t want Jon to tell people because it literally takes away her claim. You think she is just going to be totally fine with being the wife while her husband is king?! No way! She wants to be queen badly. Not only that remember she dipped on Daario to obtain her goals in Westeros.
Lol it’s not all she wanted, it was a big decision for her back a few seasons ago to choose to stay and help in Maureen etc instead of going to Westeros
@@kuurdiii All the Dany stans fail to see the clear signs that, at least after seeing her brother dealt with, she had been filled with a desire for power and an ability to overlook cruelty so long as it aligned with her desires. I do think hers is a tragic story of a child forced to grow up too fast, forced to suffer, forced to find a way to survive, and one who couldn't help but be a petulant child at times, probably because of her lineage (being that of the Mad King) and because of all the emotional damage at a young age (e.g., her brother).
@@kuurdiii well no she stayed in Meereen because "I will not let those i have freed slide back into chains". she postponed her invasion to re-stabilize the region
so, in her mind, should she let the dead win the war? Then the Night King would come south and Dany and her dragons would become mere corpses in his army.
What everyone SEVERELY chooses to miss is if she didn’t help and fought Cercei - EVERYONE would end up dead without stopping the whites lol. Like everyone out here talking about her losses because of Jon as if she wouldn’t be dead anyways.
i feel like ur not getting that it's not about the fact that he doesn't want the throne, as long as ppl know that jon is the "rightful male heir" there will be endless schemes and assassination attempts at dany's life to install jon on the throne. sansa couldnt even keep her mouth shut for 2mins and proved daenerys' paranoia correct. dany was always right about nearly every decision she made bcuz any time she went with someone else's plan it failed miserably also rhaegals death was complete and utter trash... terrible writing all around, im always surprised at how fucking awful this season is
Daenerys slowly lost everyone. All her best counselors for one Jorah and two her close friend Missandei. Someone she actually loved since Drogo in Jon. 2 of her dragons resembling her kids. All of these are contributing to her losing her cool against Cersei. I say Jorah's death played a big part. He loved her and always gave her great advice. He was always around her. After the battle, I think she felt what she lost. Along with her not getting the recognition she wanted, like how Jon did.
A big part of her descent into madness was definitely how unappreciative they all were after how much she sacrificed for them. She felt used (rightfully so), and most of all she felt alone. The last straw was definitely Missandei. It's a tragic story, and if we were gonna go into the route of madness for such a beloved character all along, then at least we (the viewers) and also the actress (who put her everything into this character) deserved more screen time and a deeper dive into Danny's psyche. This was undeniably rushed, not to mention very disrespectful torwards Emilia Clarke.
It still doesn’t really explain her actions in the next episode which is why they used the lazy “mad” plot device. She still had Jon and Tyrion who should have been enough. If I recall, the original script had her/Drogon accidentally set off the wildfire that was under the city which would make more sense.
While Dany is coming on strong here and is looking pretty paranoid, I think she has a good point as well (given that her intention is to remain as the ruler). She has learned her lesson from her family's history with the Dance of Dragons (dont' worry no spoilers beyond season 1). She knows that a significant number of nobles will want the male in charge if there is an avenue to one.
Haha right? Arya felt comfortable with Gendry, so they had sex for the first time (thinking they would die) and then the next night, Gendry‘s asking Arya to marry her?! Arya didn’t do anything wrong here.
It would be cool if they were together BUT I don't know what was thinking Gendry by asking her to marry and be a Lady. He knows she is not a Lady and she will never be because is not her. They can marry, yes, but she will never be a Lady and she could have her adventures
I'm genuinely surprised that both of you are puzzled by Dany's behavior. Of course, she cares about possibly losing the throne to Jon. Dany spent many years in pursuit of the iron throne.
@@blissinchains exactly, I think most people sympathize with the Starks because they showed the suffering on the show but if people saw how the Targaryens were punished, murdered, and suffered they'll understand where she is coming from.
If you supposedly love & trust Jon, being upset that others will like him more is selfish and shows her insecurity. She only found her sense of self through conquering & couldn't share or split the country with the last of her family? An equal? Nope she wanted the bastard. Not a true king.
When Pudgey asked Spartan the question "If you'd been fighting for something your whole life, would you be able to give it up?" and he just deflects it and says idk. Not at all putting himself in Dany's shows. Very perceptive :) please smell the sarcasm.
i feel like he often is less sympathetic and understanding when it comes to female characters? I've noticed he often will understand a man going through trauma or difficulty more then when a women does. It's probably just his perspective as a man...but just a thought.
Exactly. What you quoted is the same exact reasoning he gave for understanding and respecting Stannis 🤦♀🤦♂DESPITE Spartan witnessed him commit the unspeakably evil act of burning his own daughter alive for his ambition. No words. Dude constantly contradicts himself (is illogical) and has inconsistent standards.
@@surrealfantasy1554 I mean it's not a surprise seeing how he often treats and disrespects Pudgey: Spartan constantly dismisses her for no reason other than to invalidate her and put her down. Talk about red flags. And then when proven wrong (Pudgey being right all along) instead of manning up and owning to it he often just cowardly deflects. Real men don't do this nor treat women esp their women this way, this guy has ego and character issues.
She listened to a slave, someone like her that was born into a world that controlled her & took away her autonomy. So it didn't matter that logically they knew burning innocents & those that wouldn't kneel for legit reason is wrong. They have so much pain they think everything they do is justice & their judgement absolute. You'll rule over a graveyard.
25:32 Pudgey coming through with the wisdom. Spartan, what part of Jon being disgusted by their kiss in this episode because now he knows they're related got lost in translation for you? No, Dany can't be Queen alongside Jon, because he would NEVER marry her. So yes, as someone who believed she was the Heir the whole time, it's understandable why she would beg him to keep it a secret, because as soon as literally anyone else caught wind of that they would support Jon, and the North already did support him. I guess it's also understandable why he wouldn't want to keep that secret from his family, and why Sansa spread it imeadiately. But ultimately Dany was right, and Varys immediately betraying her proves her point. A bit disappointed that you didn't include the scene between Sansa and Tyrion.
It’s very weird he really has a jon bias. He’s like Danny should be happy to give up the throne to Jon. Lol like how crazy to say she should be happy to give up the throne
I could tell when they didn’t spot the rising issues at the end of season 7 that they weren’t going to have any problem with season 8 either. They’re showing all the sentimental goodbye scenes and skipped the most important scene. It’s cuz they love everything Stark and don’t want to paint sansa in a bad light.
Keep in mind that Dany just found out about Jon and his claim on something she’s been fighting for for so long. She’s lost Jorah, 2 of her “children” and her best friend in a very short span of time all the while seeing the love Jon has from everyone while she’s basically an outsider. She’s gone through a ton and currently going through so much more heartache and pain… how would you react when the blood of the dragons pump the your veins?
It would have been nice to see her going through some pain about losing her "children". We are constantly TOLD that she thinks of them like children, but we never see her grieve over either one of them. Nothing says bad writing more than telling instead of showing.
How would you react to the person you love also being the last of your family? Ask him to keep living a lie that caused him so much pain? That co-ruling as equals was out of the question? She was so insecure & unable to find any sense of self beyond conquering- it would never end. Even Dario said sarcastically "hope the Iron Throne makes you happy" because he knew it never would.
"Dany is acting out of character" "Who cares who gets the throne"?? Lol. Why should she care? Are we even watching the same show?? Dany has been after the throne for 8 seasons. It was her whole storyline. The Iron Throne is her life's purpose. It is her only driving force, even after losing Drogo and their child. And now you expect her to just give it up and just be a wife to a king? Idk if you're missing the whole point of her character or you're just being blinded by your fanaticism towards Jon.
The Iron Throne has not been her sole driving force. Taking care of her people was equally as important to her, arguably more so. There have been multiple instances in the show where she actively chooses the people over The Iron Throne. Hell the books even flat out state on paper that she didn't care about going back to Westeros until it became the only place she could go.
@@mellemadswoestenburg1296 that was the book Dany, the show Dany is different. She would literally burn everyone next episode, so that's obviously the character the writers wrote for her. She might have been a good queen at some point, but she was gradually losing it, so it's not out of character.
@@mellemadswoestenburg1296 IN THE SHOW the iron throne is her number one motivator. She even wanted to leave Meereen before she decided to get some experience in running a city. She helps the oppressed because she empathizes with them but shes always been focused on being the last dragon and being a ruler from the beginning. If this wasn't a concern she wouldn't have been so pushy on Drogo about crossing the sea and taking the throne.
I just think Spartan only really really liked Jon in this show, besides maybe Rob, and he looks at every situation in this show based around him. So he just wants Jon to be the king, to have all the epic scenes, to be the best and all of that, and if anything conflicts with that he doesn't like it. I fully saw both Dany's and Jon's side of the story when I first watched, it makes total sense, maybe if that storyline was developed more (ahem if d&d didn't rush anything) I would like it so much more, but it was still the most realistic way that this situation will go. Idk why Spartan was expecting Jon to run around and tell everyone who he is when he was told that he is AT, and then just go ahead and rule the Seven kingdoms. I already see that he will be furious about Jon going back to the wall, not that I liked that ending for him either, but I also never wanted the ending where Jon sits on the Iron Throne anyway and Spartan only wants that.
Sansa uses the information that she has to her advantage, regardless of her vow to keep it a secret. She has essentially become Littlefinger. It's why I hate that line about Littlefinger, Ramsay, and Cersei making her what she is today (a strong woman) with a passion. Because a) what she shows isn't strength, and b) it perpetuates the trope that women can only become strong if they have gone through something awful, instead of being strong from the get-go.
If that were the case she would have proposed Jon as king when they have the big meeting in the Dragonpit in the last episode. I mean, it was established that he had the best claim (debatable, but let's roll with it), and the only one at the meeting who would object to it would be Grey Worm and possibly Yara. Granted, Grey Worm has an army, but there's nothing left in Westeros for him to fight for anyway. Jon would have been the most logical option, but she doesn't say a thing.
Spartan dude when did Dany try to "get her family back on the throne" ? Remember that she thinks she's infertile. She would have been the last Targaryen.
Not necessarily true even in the books the discussion was brought up outside of Daenerys, everyone else thinks the witch was full of shit. It's also entirely plausible her deliriousness after flying drogon outta meeren was caused by miscarriage 🤷🏽 so there's that
[Everyone praises Jon Snow.] [Dany watches on with disdain on her face.] Pudgey: "That's good for Dany to hear." Drawing the exact opposite conclusion from what is really going on. Denial is deep. After seasons of bend the knee and if you betray me I'll burn you alive, they're surprised when she doesn't just give it all up. I do agree about Jaime, though. I was disappointed by that U-turn.
Eh, I don't think Daenerys was looking at Jon in disdain. Rather, she was looking at him in envy - because he was celebrated around friends, for doing amazing things (the way she was celebrated in Essos). Yet, here in the cold North of Westeros, she's still a stranger. Does it matter to the Westerosi that she lost her closest friend and one of her dragons for Jon? Nope, not at all. Everyone was with their friends, celebrating a battle won and she was alone.
Danni's issue is not so much John wanting the throne, but rather other men would plot to over throw, or assassinate her,then put John on the throne . westerosi lords for the most part have always pushed towards having a king rule . we saw this with rhaenys and rhaenyra, and that is what Danni fears.
And Jon is too naive to understand this - even Sansa betraying him within five minutes of learning his secret (and vowing to keep it) isn't sufficient for him to comprehend the situation. He thinks that telling the secret Ned kept for 30 years to an untrustworthy sibling who never liked him and who had been undermining him at every turn is a smart move. Let's remember this is the guy who got himself murdered by his own men for his naivety,
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 Remember Jon ignoring all plans and riding alone to the middle of the battlefield in the Battle of the Bastards? Jon is too emotional and not capable of analyzing what his enemys are doing
Of course Dany is paranoid. Throughout Westerosi History, men have always been favoured over females for the throne. But you are so blinded by this idea of “true warriors” that you forget that Dany is just as much as a warrior as Jon. She might not wield a sword but she rides a dragon, she crucified the masters, frees the slaves. Endured being traded, sexually assaulted and being held hostage. In my opinion she has every right to be paranoid and furious now that she has lost both dragons and both her best friends.
@@blissinchains Exactly! I always rooted for both Daenerys and Jon ( a little bit of Cersei because I find her 😂) But Spartan only likes Jon 😂 I think he fancies him 🤷♂️ Jon is great but Dany is the better ruler in my opinion as she will bring the Targaryen dynasty back to where it belongs. As Queen and as a Dragon Rider. I know Jon is technically the “rightful king” and he can ride a Dragon. But his Dragon is dead and he doesn’t want to be King. Dany isn’t mad like her dad. She is just grieving. And she was just doing what everyone else has done, in war, for centuries. But because she’s a “Women” or a “Targaryen” she can’t control her emotions so therefore she isn’t a good ruler. SMH. I am a man and even I see this blatant sexism😂 Spartan needs to do better 😂
Dany was never smart, Just stern . With or without the history of westoros . Dany was gonna fail. Jon is a true warrior, gave the command and wielded the sword , and spared men for a reason. Dany was my favourite in the beginning,after repeating the series almost 10 times . Dany was just a imbecile with dragons. Burned and killed anybody who stood in her way for the good or bad , enemy or allies. The gods flipped a coin and she came out a badass psychopath we love . Everyone blamed her advisors , I blame her for not being smart enough. She only begins to make her own decisions when she sees best (majority of the time when she’s lost ) that’s when she makes the worst decision. Jon is a bastard with nothing to inherit shamed and spat upon. What he’s done is small compared to dany ,but it shows how long you can go with nothing. The misogyny in Westeros is a threat,but in the end lady stark Sansa beat the odds. The best they could ask for. Jon snow owes dany nothing, in fact every one owed him something because him not making allies and bending the knee would’ve costed dany and the whole realm. See if dany put her life on facing them alone she would’ve lost it already. Danaerys is a conqueror not a ruler very fitting to her reason behind her goal , she should be called “breaker of the wheel “ nothing more nothing less. After claiming the throne she continued to Execute surrendering swordsmen and burning children. Dany is and was a disease, Varys questioned hyping her up so much . The world dany wanted to build clearly would’ve been ruled better under Aegean Targaryen sixth of his name . If dany wants to do what everyone did then why would she want to create a world of mercy . No one gets to choose one of danys last words. Kings are chosen not born after all🤣🤣😭
Dany wanted to free the innocent slaves and peasants, to break the wheel, not to turn regular citizens into jerky. If she only wanted power she would have worked with the slave owners and aristocracy the whole time.
I really hate that line that Dany says because it's flat out not true. Before Viserys died she literally could not care less about Westeros or the Iron Throne. "She had never seen this land her brother said was theirs, this land beyond the Narrow Sea. These places he talked of, Casterly Rock and the Eyrie, Highgarden and The Vale of Arryn, Dorne and the Isle of Faces, they were just words to her. All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known."
that stark pin Sansa gives Theon never fails to make me tear up. He struggled so much with his identity, in the end he was welcomed as a Stark by the Starks.
20:22 *JON SUCKS AS A PARTNER AND AS A LEADER.* He's so foolish he can't understand that even if he loves Dany, he is a political threat to her. Moreover, he acts like there is no compromise. Like he needs to tell his secret to his siblings immediately, when he can wait. They can agree to tell them AFTER Cersei is defeated, AFTER Dany is settled. This is such BS. Blame the writers.
Very good point. If he trully didn't want the throne and cared for Dany, he could've waited untill the waters had settled to reveal his secret to his family. But then that would've implied a lot more planning and writing, and we all know how eager Dumb and Dumber were to be rid of this show.
spartan completely misunderstands danys pov. if everyone knew about jons true identity then everyone would want him to become king of the seven kingdoms that is why dany rightfully sees jon as a threat
I think Dany is heartbroken too. And going crazy with all the trauma. She knows she has lost Jon and the throne. I felt bad for her until well we will see…
But Jon doesn't want it, and Dany could solve it by marrying him anyway, not a single decent reason was given in the show why that would be a problem. Well, except one throwaway line by Varys about how the North "wouldn't approve of marrying your aunt", which makes absolutely zero sense, is contradicted by the actual lore, and is only invented as a "reason" because the dreadfully incompetent showrunners wanted a Jon/Dany marriage to be impossible because otherwise the plot couldn't happen.
I don't understand why Daenerys has to trust Jon. He banged her and as soon as he found out the truth about his identity he avoided her. She was the one to find him in the crypts to see what's going on. Also he gave up the North even though he did not have to, but he told his bannerments the opposite. He didn't try to close the gap between Daenerys and his sister or the Northerners and out of the blue he says he is the heir! Why would she trust him! He's been the boyfriend from hell for her! She believes they used her and now they want to get rid of her. Sansa surely does
All of this! Thank you! But somehow Daenerys is always seen as the monster when almost everyone around her was playing victim and villain at the same time!
@@kllrj08 In my country we say people eat whatever others serve them. Or people buy what others sell. Meaning they are naive and they believe what they are told or shown. That's what D&D try to show us here. That Jon is the nice guy and all the others are worst. Everything else others do is wrong. However no one could ever be more wrong in that particular scene than Jon.
@@kllrj08 People are usually not upset with Danny, they're usually upset at her being written horrifically. They could have hit these plot beats without it feeling left field and horrific.
Oh my, exactly! Wish people saw it this clearly. Also, I love Jon but he's always been an awful boyfriend, even to Ygritte. Betrayed her so badly and then everyone called her names for wanting Jon dead. Why does Jonny boy get this fan fav treatment even when he's at fault and other people's actions against him are justified?
In this episode we saw the biggest atrocity of all to take place. Jon discarding Ghost like trash without as much as a scratch behind the ears. The directors deserve the walk of shame for that!
Thats quite simple to explain. Jon himself knew, that if he would go and pet him, he wouldnt be able to leave him behind. Look at him and the look in his face when he looked over to Ghost.
Spartan really can’t stand pudgey knowing more than him. “And before you think she’s got a good memory….she hasn’t…… we were talking about it earlier” 😬 ok bro. 👍🏻
Typical dynamic in couples where the woman is smarter than the guy. The woman has to continually try to conceal that fact from her partner, and allow him to assert dominance in other ways so he can feel good about himself.
I can’t stand spartan most of the time now, didn’t mind him at first but now I react to him the same way he reacts to Cersei 😂😂 “YUCK!!” I think most of us can agree we’re mostly here for Pudgy. She carries these reactions and knows what she’s talking about most of the time while spartan is clueless every time.
Yes..I hate how he dismisses her points...that is why I only watch the actual reaction and not the discussions...I like their format of the video and they can have different points of view but I don't like how he treats her in that aspect...sorry but it is like gaslighting to me
Telling Arya and Sansa about Jon was probably Bran's only contribution to this whole series to date. The rest of the time he sits with his eyes rolled back scouting and seeing the past. I can't believe George R.R. Martin created the character and put his story line in for that 3 minutes and he'd have nothing else of importance to see, plan for or help in the fight for the night king besides sitting as bait in a chair.
@@jrafel1707 In Winds of Winter what you will discover is that Bran is a huge pervert who spends most of his time watching people in the past have sex, including his own parents. This was foreshadowed in the first episode of the series when he spied on Cersei and Jamie.
Arya saying they dont trust danny or they dont need allies AFTER she won them the war is absolute abomination, both arya n sansa irritated me that last season so much that I wished the night king was there for them.
Same here. After watching Danny's forces being in the front lines in the last episode, after watching Greyworm have to literally pull the plug on many of his brothers to activate the tranches and give everyone else a chance... To hearing Sansa have the AUDACITY to say in this episode that "Arya was the one who killed the Night King" and therefore completely dismiss their efforts... Makes my blood boil.
Sansa, Arya and Jon pissed me off. Jon for treating Dany totally different after finding out who he really is. Arya for saying they didnt trust Dany when there is no reason to not trust her and Sansa for pretty much acting like a little bitch ever since she met Dany but she pissed me off the most when after they win the war against the NK she pretty much did not want to send the North's Army with Dany's like it was agreed.
Also, this episode explains what Podrick did with those whores all those seasons ago.. In this episode, when they're playing the drinking game, Tyrion tells Brienne to drink if she's a virgin, in the background you see Podrick take a drink.. I believe he sang to them, songs were like stories and it was probably a refreshing change to the men they usually encounter. That's why they didn't take his money. And they probably covered for him because if he'd gone back to Tyrion and Bron, who are frequent brothel users, they probably would have laughed at him. Who goes to a brothel to sing? Lol. He didn't have a magic cock, he had a magic voice.
Spartan is jus a huge Jon biased that’s why he couldn’t really understand where Dany is coming from. Hope you see things in a much bigger picture of what at stake for both parties and not only what is shown in the episode.
Dany has lived her entire life without power and seen ppl abuse power and as a consequence she does not trust anyone else with power but herself. It's perfectly understandable.
I think it is really important to remember Dany’s upbringing, to understand her perspective on life. She was told by her only brother, who was basically her father figure growing up that Westeros was their home. More than that, they needed to take the Iron Throne back. The Targaryens ruled for 300 years. Their family has a lot of history in Westeros. I don’t blame her for being paranoid, considering what happened to her father and entire family.
Spartan really thought that Dany and Jon would rule together as a couple, bruh this is not Cinderella. The only thing Dany has ever wanted was to be Queen. She would not lived under the fallacy of a dual ruling because deep down she knows that the people prefer Jon and by default he would be THE king and she the consort. It's that simple.
@@timmcgrath8030 You missed my point completely. She wants to be with Jon however she reacts this way because Jon is a threat to what she wants most, TO BE QUEEN.
Sometimes I feel like he paid little attention to the characters and just was into scenes because he kept saying "out of character" like some angry teen on Twitter.
Not noticing the Iron Fleet from that high above is a story line pulled by the hair but it is what it is. More episodes might have justified the loss of another dragon at a different pace. Enjoy the last two episodes for what they are.
It wasn't even necessary for her the plot. Her being up high in the air and feeling safe would have justified her being a little careless. She also didn't know they had these weapsons on the ships. The showrunners explanation of the scene was stupid. But the scene itself still works fine. However, I think they should have moved the scene to another episode. I think it would have been more dramatic if Danny started flying over King's Landing after they surrendered and THEN they shot one of her Dragons down! The motivation to kill everyone would have been more understandable for the audience. It would have been like giving Danny road rage instead of making her a clear cut villain.
@@thinkhector Good point - I didn't think of this though I still doubt she was able to overlook the fleet or at least something at the horizon but this is all talk without consequence - kind of.
That scene could have gone 90% the same and actually worked really well. All they had to do was make Dany see the fleet and charge them with the dragons. They shoot a bunch of spears, Rhaegal is hit multiple times and dies, while Dany retrieves back up into the sky with Drogon. There, the same stuff happened and now it makes sense. But nooooo, they had to SHOCK us with spears coming out of nowhere, for Jesus sake... 🙄🙄🙄
Spartan is being a little unfair towards dany. She's right when she told jon it doesn't matter what he wants, if his true heritage was known it would spark a chain of events that he won't be able to control. Him being male alone will ganner support for him over her. And if you add the fact that his name is "AEGON" that's a double wamy, and most importantly he is a man of "Westeros" not a foreigner. If those wankers D&D had passed the writing and producing baton to people that cared about ending the show the right way, instead of rushing and butchering something that wasn't theirs to destroy, we could have seen a "Second dance of the Dragons"
@@arobin6695historically a lot of people married their cousins, but aunt/uncle/niece/nephew/brother/sister is a little too close. You share a lot more DNA with those relations than you do with a cousin.
Bronn was totally in character. He was friends/friendly with them but from the start his drive and character was a sellsword. Thatss who he is and will always firstly look after himself. Thats why Tyrion told him, if anybody asks you to kill me, I will pay double, Even when he saved jamie, he told him a dragon doesnt get to kill, you dont get to kill you, only I get to kill you
@@jfyigdfgeuh And why shouldnt they be able to offer it to him? The Tyrells are gone. Defeated and killed, and their gold being occupied by the Lannisters. Highgarden is owned by the Lannisters now. Any Lord that would speak up against the Lannisters and what they are doing, would be executed immediately.
Just like now in HOTD, a male heir is a danger. As long as Jon is a Targaryen, the rightful heir, no matter how much he doesn’t want it, the people will want him on the throne. This directly threatens Dany life. She loves Jon but him knowing they’re family he cant be with her in his eyes. She lost Jorah, her dragons, Missandei, her love, everyone who is close to her is conspiring against her. She’s completely alone. I never though she was losing it here, she lost absolutely everything and no one even trusts her after everything she did. She has all the right to be mad.
Okay but "all the right to be mad" does not include and extend to slaughtering innocent citizens with dragon fire, unless by mad you mean insane, and if any of the events leading up to The Bells contributed to that, then Dany was never stable enough or fit to rule to begin with.
Yup, even if they were married and ruled together it would always be a threat to her life and breaking the wheel. Because she cannot bear children she would be expected to die early so that Jon could create Heirs with a new queen
@@IndomitableAde "If any of the events leading up to The Bells contributed to that..." Actually, the events that contributed to this absurd "Mad Queen" imposition were clearly the offer to D&D to make Star Wars movies, and their consequent desire the kick GOT to the kerb ASAP. There really is little point in trying to critique the final episodes as though they were an authentic wrap-up of the story. Dany might just as well have used a variation of Jessica Rabbit's classic line: "I'm not bad - I'm just written that way!"
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 what I meant by any of the events leading up to the Bells is everything everyone overlooked and cheered for during Dany's rise to power. From killing the masters in order to steal The Unsullied to crucifying all the masters in Meereen, to threatening to feed the remaining heads of the noble houses to her dragons in order to find out who was behind the Sons of the Harpy, to the execution of the Tarlys. Dany is a conqueror yes, but she is also a destabilizer and she was never a good ruler.
Time ago i commented about how dany felt alone and someone said that she wasn't, she had tyron and missandei... her chosen family... yet, tyron had jamie and missandei had grey worm and she, she couldn't feel to had even Jhon anymore, she felt he was a treat to what she wanted, she couldn't trust him.. then.. she lost missandei and she chose revenge and madness... she was in fact, alone.
@@BhBc8f8 this one is true too, also because whenever they talked about targarians, they talk about the pending madness so yeah, u r right too. Ps. Sorry for my English 🌈
I really don’t understand why they’re liking 7/8 so much. None of the characters are themselves. The writing is terrible. None of the plotting makes any sense. Jon gets robbed of his entire arc. Arya learns to fly. The night king wasn’t a threat at all. Everyone has plot armor. There’s no danger. People teleport all over the place. It’s SO bad. Also, Cercei clearly isn’t pregnant. Since she announced it it’s been like well over 9 months in universe time. No baby bump. Nothing. Spartan saying it’s good writing had me rolling.
@@DonkeyFrost129MC not just Dany... Tyrion and Varys forgot that uncle/niece & aunt/nephew marriages aren't taboo in Westeros (or in real life medieval age)
Interesting how so many things seem to go over Spartan's head...also, Dany has had ONE goal from day one. Go back home and be queen. Jon is a threat. If the people find out that he is a Targaryen, they will want to put him in power. Of course she's paranoid.
She is not paranoid, the threat to her claim and rule is very real and is not even solved entirely by marriage with Jon. It's just that the way it was presented, it looked off. Just badly written.
on day one she didnt think she'd become queen, remember she's supposed to be the sister of the ''rightful'' king Vicerys whom let's remember was going to use the dothraki army to go back home and rule... She only started seeing differently later in season 1. The one goal from day 1 to go back and rule was Vicerys's desire, not Dany's.
That wasn’t her only goal from day one. Otherwise she would have sided with the masters or whoever was more powerful/beneficial. She also said she wanted to “break the wheel” at one point but guess that was forgotten about.
Lmfao her goal was for Viserys to be king from day one. For the first 20-odd years of her life. She only had the goal to be queen to “Break the wheel”, once Viserys died, remember? And to restore the “rightful heir” to the throne. To restore her family’s name. All that jazz that she suddenly doesn’t give a shit about as soon as Aegon is alive. You know, the entirety of her character? Making the world a better place for the common people? All of that important shit that you mindless Dany fanatics “kinda forgot” about.
Not really out of character for Bron. He will work for the person that has the highest bid for him, Cersei currently holds that so he won't stop until he gets a better proposal.
They didn’t understand his character. they love Tyrion so they just saw him in the good light as Tyrion’s buddy and not that he is a cutthroat who helps Tyrion for gold and said he would kill babies if the price tag was high enough.
@@sh4d0w-r0ss-8 Because theres still a lot of entertainment to have, watching potentially his favorite reaction channel watch an awful episode of a great show- Its not like hes here to rewatch the shit episode.
Yeah, this is where everything really started to unravel and stupid decisions were made by the writers. I hated Jamie sleeping with Brienne and agree with everyone talking about Danerys not seeing the fleet from her altitude. More of that coming up, sadly.
Please remember the Brianne and Arya spar. Arya dropped the knife to her other hand and stabbed Brianne. A major foreshadow to her killing the Night King.
Bronn is 1000% true to his character. Not only is he tired of being promised payment time after time by Tyrion and Jaime, he has ALWAYS looked out for himself above all else. Think back to Tyrion’s trial in season 4- Bronn refused to fight the Mountain on Tyrion’s behalf, even though they’re great friends. And Tyrion wasn’t mad at all because he knows who Bronn is and always has been. It sucks to see, but this is exactly how Bronn would have handled the situation. Might not like it, but it’s definitely his character
it was so stupid of cersei to hire him in the first place and so stupid of Tyrion to give him highgarden even though he obviously was never going to shoot either of them
@@arobin6695 why was it stupid to give him Highgarden? Who else was supposed to have it? Why not give it to your friend who has, time and again, done the dirty work for both Tyrion and Jaime because he was promised more gold and a bigger and bigger castle? And if you don’t think Bronn would have shot one of them (probably Jaime) if they didn’t agree to give him what he wanted then you don’t understand what Bronn is about.
@@curtismoore6576 because nobody in the Reach knows this random murderer who has no wife and no heirs and no connection to that land and who lives in King's Landing anyway at the end? There was a 0% chance of Bronn shooting either of them, the audience knows that and every character in that scene knows that.
It’s almost like spartan forgot the last 8 seasons and Danys whole mission and reason for becoming queen. That’s all her life has been and in a split second everything changed.
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@@thalentekhuluse2829True he is completely biased 😂
@@thalentekhuluse2829Because this is literally not Danny anymore. They completely butchered her character and replaced her with some alter ego in these last three episodes. He just realized it
@@thalentekhuluse2829 He also seems a bit too obsessed with the idea of some male chosen warrior.
Truth is jon may be a better person than Dany but in this world that would get him killed.
Look what happened at the nightswatch.
His own men turned on him.
Again he made a dumb emotional decision and charged at Ramsey loosing most of the wildlings.
He also does not evoke enough fear a d respect.
Lord Glover straight up decided not to join in the war against the literal dead because he disagree with his kings decision. Rob would have executed him for that.
Dany is a just and kind person ,but also ruthless enough to keep this world in line
@thalentekhuluse2829 Just remember to bend the knee to the TRUE KING JON SNOW on the way out 🎉😂🥳
@@SpartanandPudgey Too bad he walked north to freeze
“They kinda forgot about Euron’s fleet” ~The directors themselves
🤬
Unbelievable I freaking hate D&D soooooo damn much
The writers*
Flying over head way above the water where they can see everything. Joke artists😂
@@plum4ge yes but they’ve also directed multiple episodes
“Why does she care about the throne” thats the most baffling question ever asked in regards to daenys behaviour. Everything she has gone through for every season of this show was with that goal mind, all the suffering and heartbreak and betrayal and fighting. she isnt going to just forget her goal because shes fallen for jon…
Honestly, the off-screen shooting of Rhaegal was king of absolutely ridiculous scenes.
No matter how you look at it, this is something completely stupid that can never happen at least not as it was filmed here. A dragon can surprise people on ships but the opposite? No way. Absolutely no way. They would have seen them from miles away before coming at target range. Plus to have this precision on a flying target and from such a far distance, one would need a true sniper weapon of 100% accuracy of modern warfare. No, crossbows and ballistae can't have this accuracy at this distance, let alone on flying targets. Laughable at best. Plus you can't really kill dragons this easily, their hide is much tougher.
Harder than steel actually 😂 scorpion bolts exist in the books they cannot pierce the scales of an adult dragon. Especially not from that distance the show was long dead before this nonsense though
I like how you are talking about the real life actuality of killing something that has never actually existed in real life
@@leonrobinson2475 Yeah well, its called fantasy lore. And it exists so that we can discuss these things. Thankfully the original writers delve a lot into these things, into their works. Fortunately for us.
@@hokagedlo6133 I wouldn't go so far to call it dead, but I agree that they did a decent number of crap things the further down the road which felt downhill for sure, things that could have been avoided or at least better implemented.
@@kobarsos82 Well even in this lore a dragon has been killed before, Meraxes was shot by a Scorpion.. so this criticism seems incorrect
As much as I hated the last season, and i hate to say it but it makes sense why Danny reacted like this. She faced real defeat for the first time in Westeros. She lost her children, lost her lvoed ones and lost her army. The only thing that remained constant is those advisors, missandei and greyworm, and her claim to the iron throne. Losing it would mean her journey is all in naught.
I would compare it to Cersei and her dealing with her losses, making her even more cruel than before. The only difference, being Danny was set up to be the good person and Cersei was evil from the start.
If they had spent more time developing how Danny’s dealt with her loss, this would have made a better scene. Cersei took 6 seasons of character development from the loss of family even though she won her schemes and wars, but Danny took 1 season of losing wars and losing her family and children to descend into paranoia. Yes she experience minor losses and 1 major loss of her husband but it was never developed on HOW she negatively reacted to the losses. Prolly why it just feels outvof character.
the whole 'Mad Queen' arc never made any sense. Yea Dany went through so much shit in the last season, but her whole life had been nothing but overcoming adversity; I mean she literally started the show being pimped out by the only family she had left. So even if the season had been developed over a longer time, I still think the 'Mad Queen' arc was never the way Dany would react to the challenges she encountered in the last season.
@@malamark04 Exactly, what use were those precious conversations between Arya the cupbearer and Tywin Lannister about admiration for the sisters of Aegon and the Dragons, The Starks cannot be so ungrateful, nor can Aerys be Mother Teresa compared to Daenerys, the last chapters are a parody and nonsense and it hurt me so much that I have not seen them again
@@malamark04 Didn't she tell the 13 she would burn cities to the ground. Fire and blood I believe. The signs were there but people just loved all the good things she did so much they looked past how crazy she was. I'm ok with her going full send just not how it actually happened with the bells ringing and her saying the hell with it. It was disappointing.
@@dustinjackson3318 I agree with you completely. I have watched the whole show four times and almost all the GOT reaction channels and I think that people were so invested in the idea that Dany was the hero that they ignored all the crazy stuff that she did in some of the earlier seasons. For me, it started gradually with the crucifixion of the masters of Yunkai (S6). From the audience’s perspective, people cheered for it because it involved the villains, but from an objective point of view, what she did was quite atrocious.
@@malamark04 Yes her whole life is about overcoming adversity i do agree. What matters is how she overcome her adversity. She ruled parts of Essos through tyranny, nothing unlike the Masters, even if she does treat the Masters and the freed slaves equally. I dont have any problems with that.
The thing is, she grew up her whole life overcoming her adversities overwhelmingly, and believing that her purpose is to reclaim the 7 kingdoms. Now she’s faced major defeat of her armies multiple times for the first time in her life. She lost her dragon children whom she loved more than humans. And she was told that the true heir is Jon and not her, which defies her belief ever since she was a child. After the war, during the feast, she realised the houses and the free folks truly loves Jon, while she does not have much whom she could trust. She felt more alone than ever. If she were to throwaway her belief that she was born to rule the 7 kingdoms and accept that Jon is the true heir, it’s basically telling her that her whole life is a lie.
That’s why i said it would make sense, if you face major defeat, lose your loved ones and your sense of identity, you would grasp at straws in order to retain what’s left that makes you, you.
I dont like it because they dont develop this enough.
She kind of forgot about the Iron fleet. That's what the creators said and it explains the entirety of seasons 7 and 8.
I will say that explanation was stupid when the more obvious thing was right there. That Danny simply felt safe far above a fleet of ships.
@@thinkhector , yeah, but one would still think that they always scout ahead, especially when they are in an open war with someone who just backstabbed them. How can all these seasoned warriors around her not be prepared is beyond me. Although, it's also hardly surprising, because an episode ago they sent their entire cavalry to charge blind in the dark against a force of a hundred thousand zombies.
@@thinkhector She wouldn't have felt safe. She already had experience with the weapon and the power of its bolt. Dumb and Dumber have no excuses. They even forgot Dany had spoke about the fleet in a previous episode. She wouldn't have forgotten about it even if the show runners did.
@@snappingbear Even if she did feel kind of safe, her fleet commanders and captains would have prepared for the worst.
The interactions between Jon and Dany make sense. Her purpose in life has been to take back the iron throne and she has been through a lot to get there. She has always been confident that she will take it, but the closer she gets to it, the more obstacles there are. Finding out Jon is the true heir is a big threat because if people knew, they would want him to be King over her. To fight your whole life for something to then potentially lose it to someone who didn't even know they were in the race, she's panicking. She's now the closest she's ever been to the throne and she's realised she doesn't have the following Jon does. She can see her goal fading away and she's doing everything she can to keep hold of it. Nothing is as important to her than getting the throne so it makes sense she's being the way she is. She cares for Jon, but she cares for the throne more.
As for Jon, not only has he just found out some huge, potentially life changing news, he's likely also being a bit off with her because he's found out she's his aunt. For Targaryens it's not so odd, but for everyone else incest would be frowned upon. He's not grown up in a place where that is normal practise so he's probably feeling very conflicted.
I was seeing their way too. But I understand this comment here. She had been fighting all this time to get back to westeros to claim the throne. So I get that.
Muh queeeeeeern
@@lustrazor44uhh Dunn whannit
@@williamshelton4318That's her entire character arc for 8 full seasons since Viserys died dude 😂
I can't fully put into words the disservice D&D did to her character by not showing more of Dany's prophecies and dreams, and by not including any of her obsession over the "mummer's dragon" and "three betrayals" that those prophecies infected her with. They were willing to adapt Cersei's prophecy semi-accurately, but they didn't even try with Dany. Really detracts from the tragedy of her character
Jon has never been allowed to get what he wants and he has the aura that she had whilst liberating the slave cities.. Jon has never wanted to lead but he was made to lead.. her claim would be undermined and they would try assassinate her to force Jon to be king.. not understanding Danny wanting to be Queen doesn’t make sense in the context of this show and landscape because even in HOD Rhaenys most quotable line to Alicent “have you never imagined yourself on the Iron throne”.. it’s literally the whole goal.. and Danny has had visions of herself on there (one of her gifts) now imagine seeing all your visions come true and this is the last one.. that conviction you must have about your life and it’s purpose.. her reactions make sense
What you have to remember is Danny has lost so much, that she cant back down now, otherwise it would all feel like it was for nothing.
So did the Starks family also
Look, if you can recall, Dany has been petulant since season 2. "My, my my! My throne this! My throne that!" She's always had people there to check her worst impulses. And now she's lost 2 people that were her closest friends. Holy shit! I think the point is, at the end of this episode, is that you want her to do something MAJOR and see what happens as a result.
P.s. Rhaegal's demise was kind of foreshadowed last season when Tyrion spoke to Dany about his concerns of her using the dragons.
Yes because it is hers, she wanted to go back home and make westeros a better place.
19:00 *DANY IS 100% IN THE RIGHT.* _"Continuing the thread that what tips Dany over the edge is rejection. Yes! We are really doing this! She is a woman scorned! Goodbye seasons of discussion about whether the ends justify the means. Goodbye seasons of dealing with various setbacks, developing opinions of her own, and earning respect. We’re reducing it all down to _*_“nobody likes Dany, she feels entitled to their love, and now she is angry.”_*_ Incidentally, why haven’t people softened towards Dany? Who was, after all, riding on a dragon just like Jon, and saving a lot of lives? We’ll get to that in a few scenes._
_Again, the fact that Dany gets angry and emotional about the prospect of losing her claim in Westeros is part of the depiction of a general downward trend in sanity and upward tendency to assume her power as an inherent moral good. The problem here is that a) Dany’s not wrong that Jon poses a political threat to her, whether either of them like it or not, and b) this character’s arc shows some good sound reasons for wanting power - to protect her own agency, at the very least, to say nothing of her broader politics. If Dany was forced to concede the throne, her ability to decide what she does with her own life is sharply reduced. Her ability to achieve what she wants to do in the world (things like ending slavery and oppression) is sharply reduced._
_In short, this is a scene and a situation where getting angry and upset is an entirely reasonable reaction. At best, this doesn’t work to depict a character with declining mental stability. At worst (and I believe worst), the very fact that a woman has emotions is being turned into part of a narrative where her emotions render her unsuitable to do things such as provide a reliable perspective or wield any form of power._
_The narrative of Dany’s “hysteria” is advanced by focusing disproportionately on her emotional reaction the dilemma, without an equal and counterbalancing focus on Jon’s side of the problem. Through this conversation, Jon’s offered simple rebuttals to more complex statements from Dany. I owe my siblings the truth. Sansa won’t plot against us. The truth will not destroy us. You are my queen and nothing will change that. What’s missing here is any sort of explanation as to why Jon believes these things. The lack of explanation leaves Jon’s character underdeveloped and shifts disproportionate focus to Dany’s reasoning and motivations."_
*-TURTLE PACED*
You guys should definitely check out the memes from this seazon. I remember my favorite one was the question "How good are you at keeping secrets?" and then the scale was from Ned to Sansa... lol
That would be fun lol
If Bronn's turn makes no sense to you, I can only imagine your reaction to the rest of the series.
Yeah, I don’t understand their confusion with Bronn. He was never Tyrion or Jamie’s friend, they had a friendly, contractual relationship.
@@raianthony8492 he was always their friend. neither the audience nor any of the characters in that scene ever thought that he would ever kill them.
It's not even a turn. He's rightfully pissed. He's been jerked around for years by each of the Lannister siblings now, being promised some bigger fortune in the future to do a deed now and they've not delivered on the biggest promises. By not killing the brothers, he's once again banking on a future scenario and a Lannister promise.
Also, he's a sell sword. Sure, he became friendly with Tyrion, but he's a sell sword. First and foremost.
@@Hollygli Exactly. From day one we've known Bronn is a mercenary. Remember when asked if he would kill babies when ordered to, without question? He replied that it would NOT be without question... his question would be "For how much?" His own welfare, riches and status and such will always come first. That's who and what he has been this whole time. So he is being very much in character, imo. The only reason he talked to them first at all, is because he is friendly with Tyrion
@@raianthony8492 Yeah, he was a sellsword, he never really "turned", he stayed true to his character. He may have had friends sometimes, but he never let that get in the way of looking after number one. The only question he'd ask if offered a contract job (on _anyone_ ) is "how much are you paying me?"
Mind blowing Spartan doesn’t understand why Dany feels that way. “It’s just a nuance” …. Dude it’s not . Being the one on the throne and the one NEXT to the one on the throne is a MASSIVE difference. She fought her entire life so SHE could be on the throne. Of course she doesn’t want to see that fail when she’s finally so close to it actually happening . It doesn’t feel good to see her come to clash with Jon and the Starks but she’s totally justified in feeling that way.
I mean haven't we all forgotten about a fleet or two in our lives?
Spat out my drink when I read this 🤣
10:58 Bran has become such a boring and useless character. It's so frustrating. He says he doesn't want anymore, and then later admits he came all the way to King Landing to assume power because he knew that was his destiny. 🙃
The true villain of the series! 🤬🚫🙅🏾♂️
One of the stupidest things in the whole show.
@@kllrj08 He knew everything that was coming and did nothing, just for his own benefit
Spoilers y’all ☠️
@@Wraiven22 The finished the show weeks ago. They haven't been spoield.
If Dany just wanted a good life free of Westeros politics she never would have left Mereen. She wants to sit on the iron throne, and she has given up everything to do that. Sitting next to the iron throne isn't worth everything she's given up in her eyes and if Jon tells everyone who he is the decision is taken out of their hands.
What I will agree with is that the writing could have better explained her position beyond "I'm scared that you could be king instead of me". But most of the last season is summed up by "this has good bones but needed more time and better writing"
"I don't want to be his queen. I want to go home"
"I fought so that no child born in slaver's bay would ever known what it meant to be bought or sold. I will continue that fight here and beyond. but this is not my home"
@Nihilanth exactly, totally agree. She didn't care for any of the people that loved her overseas more than she cared about a country she barely lived in and a throne shes never seen. So why would she sacrifice anything for Jon? She doesn't care about being a queen, and she doesn't care about westeros. She cares about being queen of westeros.
20:08 that's the point of "game of thrones" it's to be the ruler, ofcurse it matters to danny since id say season 2 that was her main goal. stannis and renly are from the same family..it didnt stop them from fighting over the throne..that's the point of the show.
I really hated this episode. All the characters seem really nasty with each other. They just exist now to move the plot on. I also really hated how Dany losing a dragon to an enemy is just repeated. One against the Night King and another now. It just feels like a lazy way to remove them.
All jon says to console Dany is :ur my queen ur my queen
Like... Dude
U can say better u can show love without getting intimate
What happened to u?
JUST SAY YOU’RE BIASED SPARTAN TOWARDS JON.
Remember when Jon was interesting but now he only says "you are me queens" or "she is our queen" Defford should watch pitch meetings and honest trailers lol
Since season 1, all Dany wants was to go home. She have that goal to get back the Iron Throne since Season 1, that motivates her to be strong and have the power that will help her to get that throne.
Now for so many times, she tried to talked peacefully to Cersei (she followed their advices), but she still lost Missandei and she lost Rhaegal and some of her soldiers, when they just wanted to go back at Dragonstone after the Great War.
I can't blame her when she want mad (because she f*cking tried not to start war, yet she still lost a lot). Losing those innocent people's lives and burning the city is brutal, but the viewers should know that she tried not to do that (but Cersei provoked her to)
such bad writing. The dragons were flying to spot an ambush they would have seen Euron’s fleet way before they were in range. This episode was where the show went of the cliff. (though last episode arya killing night king was the start of the total crap writing) Spartan totally saw the random and out of character issues in this ep and there were many.
I hate what they did to Dany. It contrasts everything she's ever been, she's a conquerer with the biggest army, who cares if she's the true heir. And why was she alone at the table if she has Missandei and Grey Worm, they wanted her to look lonely when she is not. Awful writing, if they wanted it to make sense they should've made more episodes
And Rhaegal... How did they kill a dragon flying in the sky with a scorpion that is attached to a boat that is moving ??? Nonsense. And everyone forgetting about the iron fleet? They know Cersei is with them because they know about the golden company, so...
The reason why she said "dracareys" is because she was the last one in her life who kept her blood thirst at bay and now she's giving her permission to let it loose🔥🔥🔥 that was the last best part of this show
Funny how Dany couldn't see a huge ass battle ship from 1000 feet up in the air.
An entire fucking fleet even.
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 that doesnt work when you would send scouts ahead of you and you have an aerial view
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 You realize that the dragons were flying over the height of the castle/ the big rocks, right? ...🤦🤦♂🤦♀
@@TheReDeeMeR1988you do realize a whole fleet can't hid behind a rock?
D&D had a lot of plot armor around Euron.
Sansa and Varys did exactly what Dany feared they would do if they found out Jon (sorry, I mean Aegon 🙄) was the true heir though… try to install him on the throne. So her paranoia wasn’t completely unfounded.
she should have executed Sansa the way she did Varys
@@arobin6695 Jon wouldn’t have allowed that one bit. Arya woulda killed Dany in return, easily I might add.
@@tristanvoyageur87be fr, the north would be off the map in about 20 minutes if dany wanted to.
varys did what he did because of dany's earlier actions and character in general. she was responsible for what he did, not the truth.
@@hullmees666 what actions? wanting to take the red keep? like literally anyone would want in her position? what did he think would happen when dany showed up asking for the throne when he decided to support her?
The one thing from GoT I can relive over and over again is the music. Ramin Djawadi deserved the Iron Throne.
This one of the most under rated comment on GoT reactions imo as no matter what you think of the writing, the music is timeless.
if the writing was as good as the soundtrack...... this last seasons are so lame, seems like a bad fanfic
Definitely 👍🏻
His work in Westworld was also the best part of the show after it shít the bed.
he failed to match the music to the show at the end, the music was too good. Had he used the Benny Hill theme then it would've been perfect.
The writing from this episode till the end was a mess, but saying Dany here was paranoid for wanting the support of the people that her dragon and her oldest advisor died for is hilarious .
@@andyfern8923 After watching this reaction I think I need to cleanse my eyes and ears with that video again. It's very informative and everyone who is still on the fence about how Dany's character arch turned out in the show should check it out. By the way, anyone out there who says the books will end the same should check out GRRM talking about how he was not involved in the slightest with the last two seasons, because Dumb and Dumber completely cut him out of the conversation. So the jury is very much still out.
@@hopemikaelson9223 gonna watch it as well (always do when a reactor gets to this point in the show). Really glad you agree on how good that video is. It's probably my favourite non official asoiaf content out there 😊
@@andyfern8923 I mean in the books Danny is having mad queen moments basically from the moment she has power. Whoever thought a lifelong abuse victim with a superiority complex would make a moral and responsible leader when suddenly thrust into power is a lunatic.
@Joseph-- shocking? How is it shocking if it's literally how it would happen in a comic book
@@ASDeckard give me one example
Watching Spartan's absolute disgust flare up whenever Cersei comes up in conversation, or whenever she's on screen, is one of my favorite parts of these reactions. 🤣
thats why Lena Headey is absolutly AWESOME in her role
@@unnamed5603yeah she and Joffrey’s actor said they’ve been harassed in public but I recall her saying she took it as a compliment that she played her part well or something of that nature so she’s classy too.
Deadass lol
It is a favorite drinking game of mine to have a glass whenever he says "disgusting" or anything similar about Cersei.
@@keef5 This is the dumbest thing i've ever read. If the audience hates the villan then the actors and writers have done a great job developing the character. It means the audience are invested in the story and actually care about a character that's not "real". That's the point of good fictional story telling.
feels a bit weird that he didnt realize why dany was acting like that, after having seen HOTD season 1 and how it a male heir would always be the #1 prio, thats what she is afraid of here.
By now his own "Jon Snow, Epic Hero!" headcannon has occupied 99% of his headspace, no room left for rational thought!
Yeeeeeah. I'm getting a bit done with Spartan. They watched House of the Dragon, a show where the whole POINT of it is how in Westeros, no matter how good a choice a female heir will be, the moment there's a male, the fight is on to make the male child the heir instead. That's the WHOLE STORYLINE of HOTD, and he just blows Dany's fears off as paranoia because it doesn't fit in his "Epic Jon Snow" daydreams.
You misunderstand. It has nothing to do with being the male heir. Jon would be the true heir even if he was a woman because he's the child of the Mad King's oldest son.
@@yarsaz4347 You misunderstand. It has nothing to do with being the "true heir". He certainly was before he made his vows to the Night's Watch. And as he vowed to renounce* all titles and claims, he is unable to utilise the same get-out clause that allowed him to walk away from the Watch. Can't walk away from that renunciation tho bro...
* You don't get a do-over when you renounce your inheritance. The next in line moves up and there are no take-backsies. Thus Danaerys, as the last _legitimate_ (i.e., qualified by virtue of birth and by not having renounced her birthright) Targaryen, gets to ait the Iron Throne
Because that's not at all what he was saying, and this shouldn't be a surprise since you've seen this show. Their house is what matters, and Spartans point is that the Targaryens would be restored to the throne regardless of who sits on it. He is not thinking in terms of "Me me me". Though yes, he should register that Dany is, as your point of having seen the show goes, it's established that the House is what matters, and that how he's observing it.
She realises that they love him way more than her, indeed an important scene.
“A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing”
Maester Aemon was right as always.
I hate this writing. Of course they do, she's not from the North. She's smarter than this.
@@d3l3tes00n the north have no honor, she puts everything on the line for them and this is how they pay to her. She shouldn't never save the north
@@d3l3tes00n How and why is she smarter than this? She has burned and pillaged her way the whole time.
The inherited madness theory of Targaryans is stuppid. Everybody can get to his breaking point and start to act mad. The Mad King wans´t mad from the beginnings, but turned mad and paranoid, when he was imprisoned for half a year in the dungeon of some lord
@@williamshelton4318 She had to be talked off the ledge of burning and pillaging multiple times in the series. Its always her first instinct. Jorah always talked her down but he's dead.
Dany isn't paranoid. Dany just knows Westerosi history. You guys watched House of the Dragon. You KNOW she's right. The moment the people learn that there's a male heir, the female heir will be tossed aside. And neither of them will be able to stop what happens. This is what history has taught everyone. Don't pretend that it's all just in her head.
It's not out of character for Bronn. He's always been about himself. He was willing to let Tyrion die because he had no intention of getting hurt himself for no money. Or, not as much money as Tywin had already given him.
They started their game of thrones journey by titling their videos “HOTD fans watch GOT.” Yet they somehow can’t put together that a male heir being known could mean death for Dany and her people.
@@heyarnoldfan12 Why would it mean death for Dany lmfao
HotD had two established factions fighting against each other. There was no love between Aegon and Rhaenyra.
That's not the case here. There is no “Jon Snow” faction wanting to remove Daenerys. Jon Snow himself does not want the throne. Also, he'll be marrying Dany.
There is no situation where Jon Snow becomes King = Death for Dany and her people
@@hamzakhattak8309 Sansa is literally the one who pushed the secret getting out. The north and their allies could be a faction right there. You didn’t see it develop because it was 2 episodes from the time word got out about it until the show ended.
@@heyarnoldfan12 It still wouldn't mean death for Daenerys. That's my point here.
There is no world where Jon Snow kills Daenerys for the throne. Jon Snow had no interest in the throne. I don't need for it to develop. 8 seasons is enough for me to know Jon's personality.
There is also no world where Jon Snow is used as a puppet by Sansa either (like the Greens did with Aegon in the show).
I hate how the dragon was killed as it was so easy to explain properly. The dragons were providing air cover for the fleet, so the iron fleet could have been spotted and the dragon killed when attacking the iron fleet making Dayneris fly away resulting in the exact same outcomes. That moment is an example of the lack of care/time saving/cost saving that damages the final season
He used cloaking technology he stole from the klingons to hide his fleet.
Then he used heat seeking missiles and rail guns with laser guided tracker to shoot the dragon but dont worry they are a one time weapon and cant be used again and the iron fleet itself has a long cool down😂
Remember according to D and D, "Dany just sort of forgot about the Iron Fleet". Writing at its finest....
Truth is it would be almost impossible for a hard to move ballistae to shoot down a dragon.
World war 2 machine gun that were infinitely more accurate and maneuverable struggled to land any hits on lightly armoured fighter plans.
Plus ww2 plans were actually less maneuverable especially when attacking ships in a straight line than the dragons shown here.
what I love the most is D&D's explanation "Dany just kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet" while she was talking about them specifically like 2 episodes ago.
I'm so sad it has all gone to shit, but I guess it's good S&P are enjoying it, since they are probably not thinking about it too much while watching.
What it came down to is three things. D and D were lazy and tired of doing the series and was ready to end it and move on. Number 2 the budget would save money by getting rid of another dragon, and number 3 it would be hard to see any scenario where Danny could lose if she had 2 dragons. ( which I thought was the point of how strong the house was because it controlled dragons)
37:29 "the best ruler is someone who doesn't want to rule"
Yes because Aegon II and Robert Baratheon were such good kings
Indeed. Competence should be more relevant than the desire - or lack thereof - to sit a throne. We've already see, as Lord Commander and in command in The Battle of the Bastards, he's not actually that good in higher leadership positions.
@@noneofyourbeeswax01look at Taiwyn lannister, while he was hand of the mad king for 20 years he ruled great and he did want to rule so 😅
The one time Jon could have benefitted from following the example of Ned Stark. Ned hid the truth from his family, knowing it was more important to prevent the negative outcome that would happen if everyone knew the secret. Jon chose a bit of extra closeness with his family at risk of some negative outcomes.
Ned was doing it to protect his nephew's life, so it was about choosing family and keeping his promise to his sister. He did it for love, just as Jon does what he does for love of his family. Jon faces essentially the same conflict as Ned and does "whatever is right", as specified in season 1, when Maester Aemon tells him that most men are not so strong. But doing right by his family is also doing right for the realm, the same as it was for Ned, both sacrificing their public honor in order to save lives. Ned wasn't wrong; the reason he died and war exploded was because Joffrey ignored the brokered deal, and had him executed in order to play to mob.
@@janeathome6643But Dany is also his family so…🤨🤷🏾♂️
Exactly
It's nuts they didn't show their reactions to Jon's real parents.
is anyone surprised? Jon has always been very....naive, to put it kindly. That's why he was killed in the first place, seems he learned nothing about politics. Ned keeping his promise doesn't just protect his nephew and honors his sister but also protects his family and the entire North from Robert's rage.
Remember according to D and D, "Dany just sort of forgot about the Iron Fleet". Writing at its finest....
So pathetic. Years later & it’s still so infuriating.
D and D got bored with making this series and it shows.
@@sleepforever3494 Why couldn't HBO step in when they saw the quality declining so much? Pay GRRM whatever it took to come back on board. Get Bryan Cogman back, he seemed to know what he was doing.
Tbf, she did forgot. Sansa made a point about it early in the episode.
Even if she remembered it exists, how could she know they were hiding behind Dragonstone?
Being the queen, as the wife of the king, is vastly different from being The Queen and ruler. It's about who holds the power and how that would affect what you can and cannot do (or have the power to do). The queen will always (in the context of the era this is based on) be subordinate to the king, even as 'joint rulers'. Dany has been fighting for her place as sovereign of her own life as much as of the seven kingdoms. Likely, in her mind the two go hand in hand, and giving up her position as the rightful ruler will mean having to give up her sovereignty over her own life as well. This is a big theme in HOTD.
You'd think that having watched HOTD they'd be more attuned to such concerns. It's like they don't remember any of that series and its themes. But in a "Jon's my boy!" world, getting what they want for him (not even what Jon wants or doesn't want for himself) is paramount.
Exactly not to mention her abuse as a child and teenager has molded her way of thinking many of these are trauma responses
Exactly, and how do they not understand that Dany has seen how everyone loves Jon, they would be completely loyal to him as opposed to her, she's not getting the love and knows if people find out about Jon's heritage the people would never accept her even with Jon saying he doesn't want the Throne, to the people they would never see her or accept her as the rightful queen. So they could never rule together she would always be 2nd to Jon and that is not what her legacy is, that's not what she has been striving for and fighting for her whole life. So Spartans whole thing about why is she acting that way and they can just eile together is funny he can't see why it won't work!
Not to mention the fact that Jon clearly doesn't have those kinds of feelings for her after finding out who he is and Dany could clearly see that
Exactly! I don't see how he missed that since they have watched HOTD.
It’s clear what Danny is saying to Jon. She knows that the more people who find out will want to put Jon on the throne no matter what loyalties he swears to her as he is the true heir and a man. Jon is an idiot here. The same stupidity that got Rob and Ned killed.
Yup I couldnt agree more.
Exactly. Same way the council has put Viceras instead the Queen that never was and what they doing for King Aegon 2 when Queen Raeneha
@@williamerazo3921I agree, and in the books, rheynera didn't even hate her siblings at first. It was the political climate which made them hate each other. It only got worse with the Hightower fuckery.
"You may not have my name, but you have my blood" - the stupid gene is strong.
Jon and Dany should have married. That would have been the logical move. Both have a claim to the throne, Jon a bit better but Dany is the one with the dragons (thus with real power).
I agree with Pudgy, it's very easy to look at it from Daenerys' perspective. She had to run away as a baby, she didn't grow up like a princess, she never really had a home. She's been mistreated and abused her whole life, and she's managed to bounce back by doing things no one else could, like bringing the dragons back to the world and taking the Dothraki across the seas. Now she's back in Westeros, and the only thing she can hold on to is the Iron Throne, because she has nothing left, but then she finds that even that can be taken from her. Why should she give up?
Exactly 💯
Yup and she knows if people find out she will never be accepted and everyone will want Jon on the throne regardless of what he says, and she is pushed aside again.
Kinda ssets the tone for the next episode doesn't it.
for the same reason(s) Jon did. He was always a bastard, always an outsider, hated by Cat, never knowing who is mother was, what his lineage was, getting left out of everything, leaving for the wall since there was nothing for him at Winterfell, nothing to inherit, etc. he had nothing, earned everything, and gave it all away far easier than he earned it... because it was the right thing to do. that's the difference with Jon and Danny. Jon does actually care about what's right. Danny believes what's right for her is right for all. Doesn't really matter how they got to these positions, both had rough lives, both lost loved ones, both had to fight for everything... but Jon stayed humble and Danny became a dictator... might as well call her, Gollum. a good soul, corrupted by power...
@@oktober-vh6gl well, I think you misunderstood my comment. I said it's easy to understand Danny's perspective, that given everything she's been through it's understandable that she doesn't want to give up the throne. Jon's case is different. OBVIOUSLY HE ALSO SUFFERED, but it's different. Yes, Jon was mistreated by Catelyn, but only by her. He grew up in a castle, having the education and care of a nobleman, even though he was a "bastard". Even that point makes him stand out over other bastards on the wall, who had a miserable life indeed. Jon doesn't want the throne. He has a home, he feels like home in Winterfell, he has his family. Daenerys does not. As I said, the throne is what's left for her, so she doesn't want to give it up. And in regards to what happened in the last two episodes, it's just bad writing. Martin will develop all these conflicts in a correct way, even though they are the same events.
Spartan can be so clueless at times, many times, most times.
Australians aren't the brightest in my experience.
Everyone isn't as intelligent as you I guess.
Gets on my nerves at times, many times, most times 😂 especially the way he reacted to the Bron scene. He forgets Bron can always be bought
@@raymondjames9283 Right? Bron is one of the few characters that didn't act out of character, and that's the one that bothers him, not Jaime throwing away all his progress, not Tyrion being a moron the entire season, not Bran being completely useless, not Varys betraying Daenerys for no reason, not Cersei not killing Danareys and her dragon when she had a chance, none of them, Bron is the one acting out of character lmao, ridiculous
@@raymondjames9283 And let us not forget, Cersei paid with more than promises - she paid him with chests of gold up front!
Emilia Clarke’s acting is SO good this season. It blows me away every time. Especially her reaction to Missandei.
she just had to think about the seasons writing and had the perfect mode for acting out these scenes
Imagine this level of acting with actual decent writing
@@walker1tnrangershe literally had many seasons with great writing and never shined as an actress
@@vvthetalentlessduo6976 Because she wasn’t yet this good of an actor? Did you even read the original comment
@@vvthetalentlessduo6976huh? The fuck you mean she never shined as an actress? She was outstanding throughout the entire show. Talk about bullshit opinions. Writing in the end sucked but she was a great actress throughout
Bronn is 100% in character for going after who he is paid to kill, and also shows how much he appreciates Tyrion by not killing him straight away and giving an opportunity for negociation
💯💯💯
What's out of character is trusting Cersei will keep her word and not kill him when the job is done. That's the stupidity of it all, Bronn knows better than that.
@@sbj2k1 Thats why he didn't do it instantly, bro. He was aware of that, but it gave him the upper hand in negotiating an even better deal with those 2.
@@sbj2k1 Lannisters always pay their debts. I don't know why you wouldn't trust Cersei in this spot. Killing them was extremely important to her. It's the two Lannister brothers that kept screwing Bronn over, not Cersei.
what's dumb is how he was able to just waltz right into that tavern with a crossbow and threaten jamie and tyrion. it was like a bad sitcom.
20:08 "Why should she care?" oh cmon now.... she has worked for that throne for 8 seasons. that has been the goal she dedicated her entire life to. obviously she cares.
Exactly. It's like she hasn't had 1 single goal for 8 seasons lol
Right? It is her life's purpose, her only driving force. Idk why they're baffled about Dany's reaction.
@@thalentekhuluse2829 When John hung Ollie I don’t remember it being that much of a big deal. He’s always had an issue with Dany & Sansa lol
@@adrianpearthe hates women lol
No Spartan if Dany becomes queen by marriage than the ruler is not her, throne is not hers it’s Jon’s - ruling and succession will come down to Jon and whatever he says will go; she already sees that Jon is torn between her and his Stark family which does not give her much reassurance
Jon would probably be happy to be her Hand and let her have the throne
Yeah I’m sure Jon would have worn the pants in that relationship lol
@@arobin6695 perhaps but the sexist/conservative/racist/naive/power hungry noble lords will not 😂
@@BhBc8f8 they dont get a vote, Dany is the only person alive with a dragon
Danny is sterile. She'll never pass on her power anyway.
13:00 ; i always thought that look on her face was to show how much doubts she’s starting to have. I think that her seeing John surrounded by people admiring him might’ve made her felt like they’d choose him over her. But that’s how I saw it
that's how it was meant as well. probably deep down she also knew that he was the better choice anyway (better claim or not).
It's definitely how it was meant to be seen. Think about it. Jon was being praised for doing the exact same thing Dany was also doing during the battle.
that's exactly what it was -- jealousy
@@hullmees666 then I’m glad I wasn’t wrong as someone who « watched » GoT troughout their reactions lol! I was being careful because I didn’t wanna get scolded if I got it wrong😅🤣
@@Golladan He was being praised by someone who had ALSO ridden a dragon...I guess the riders kind of forgot about that.
‘Why would she care’
She uhhhhh kinda fought for it her entire life and accomplished the impossible to get it whilst Jon can saunter in and potentially take it all from her because he’s a man. She didn’t do it all to be the king’s queen. She did it all to be THE queen.
Yeah, all her life, all she's wanted is to tell everyone else what to do and how to live their lives, on a throne she has zero right to sit on. He's lucky she never had him burnt to death. She would have eventually.
@@ashscott6068 ZERO RIGHT? What kind lord of the ring show are you actually watching? LOL Who had the right, BRAN STARK? LAWL
@@voidofme9192 cersei.her family was deposed.
@@voidofme9192 wtf does that comment have to doi with LOTR? Unless youre implying Aragorn also had no right? Except Aragorns line wasnt deposed like the Targaryens were, a steward sat the throne awaiting the kings return.
@@voidofme9192 He's not Bran. He's not a lord. Did you kinda forgot?? 😂 Jokes aside, I bet for some ppl even the Three-Eyed Raven deserved the throne more than Daenerys 💀💀
Ahh seazon 8... MADNESS. MADNESS, AND STUPIDITY.
I’m sorry, but I’ve been trying to restrain myself from commenting this for a while. Idk how Spartan thinks that all of a sudden Dany’s goal of the iron throne is something new or that why is she so determined for it. Like for the whole 8 seasons that’s all she wanted. Obviously she doesn’t want Jon to tell people because it literally takes away her claim. You think she is just going to be totally fine with being the wife while her husband is king?! No way! She wants to be queen badly. Not only that remember she dipped on Daario to obtain her goals in Westeros.
Lol it’s not all she wanted, it was a big decision for her back a few seasons ago to choose to stay and help in Maureen etc instead of going to Westeros
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216she stayed in Meereen because she needed to practice ruling before heading to Westeros. The iron throne was always her goal
@@kuurdiii you’re right she didn’t give a crap about them at all it was just for practice just like when I dated your mom
@@kuurdiii All the Dany stans fail to see the clear signs that, at least after seeing her brother dealt with, she had been filled with a desire for power and an ability to overlook cruelty so long as it aligned with her desires. I do think hers is a tragic story of a child forced to grow up too fast, forced to suffer, forced to find a way to survive, and one who couldn't help but be a petulant child at times, probably because of her lineage (being that of the Mad King) and because of all the emotional damage at a young age (e.g., her brother).
@@kuurdiii well no she stayed in Meereen because "I will not let those i have freed slide back into chains". she postponed her invasion to re-stabilize the region
Ignoring all the losses Danny took since deciding to help John is hilarious to say the least…….
She didnt need to take any of these losses.there is no reason she needs to sit the throne she doesn't own or deserve
“Love is the death of duty”. Maester Aemon.
helping the whole seven kingdoms*
so, in her mind, should she let the dead win the war? Then the Night King would come south and Dany and her dragons would become mere corpses in his army.
What everyone SEVERELY chooses to miss is if she didn’t help and fought Cercei - EVERYONE would end up dead without stopping the whites lol. Like everyone out here talking about her losses because of Jon as if she wouldn’t be dead anyways.
“I actually want Dany to unleash her wrath now”
😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
Watch him hate her next episode.... He only like female characters when they're sucking off male characters....
And the countdown begins .. 5 .. 4 .. 3 .. 2 .. 1
Careful Ned, careful now
He's gonna be bashing her the rest of the season though lmfao, his hate for cersei turns him into cersei 😂
I'd bet that by the end of next episode he'd be hating on her for doing exactly that. guy's an exemplary hypocrite lol
i feel like ur not getting that it's not about the fact that he doesn't want the throne, as long as ppl know that jon is the "rightful male heir" there will be endless schemes and assassination attempts at dany's life to install jon on the throne. sansa couldnt even keep her mouth shut for 2mins and proved daenerys' paranoia correct. dany was always right about nearly every decision she made bcuz any time she went with someone else's plan it failed miserably
also rhaegals death was complete and utter trash... terrible writing all around, im always surprised at how fucking awful this season is
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Daenerys slowly lost everyone. All her best counselors for one Jorah and two her close friend Missandei. Someone she actually loved since Drogo in Jon. 2 of her dragons resembling her kids. All of these are contributing to her losing her cool against Cersei. I say Jorah's death played a big part. He loved her and always gave her great advice. He was always around her. After the battle, I think she felt what she lost. Along with her not getting the recognition she wanted, like how Jon did.
A big part of her descent into madness was definitely how unappreciative they all were after how much she sacrificed for them. She felt used (rightfully so), and most of all she felt alone. The last straw was definitely Missandei. It's a tragic story, and if we were gonna go into the route of madness for such a beloved character all along, then at least we (the viewers) and also the actress (who put her everything into this character) deserved more screen time and a deeper dive into Danny's psyche. This was undeniably rushed, not to mention very disrespectful torwards Emilia Clarke.
If she's angry with cersei then why does she attack everyone except cersei
@@hopemikaelson9223I couldnt agree with you more.
Resembling her kids?
It still doesn’t really explain her actions in the next episode which is why they used the lazy “mad” plot device. She still had Jon and Tyrion who should have been enough. If I recall, the original script had her/Drogon accidentally set off the wildfire that was under the city which would make more sense.
"All my life I've only known one goal. The Iron Throne." --Dany
She burned her way across The Narrow Sea - why stop there ✌️
Yep. That’s one more thing out of many that spartan has forgot
While Dany is coming on strong here and is looking pretty paranoid, I think she has a good point as well (given that her intention is to remain as the ruler). She has learned her lesson from her family's history with the Dance of Dragons (dont' worry no spoilers beyond season 1). She knows that a significant number of nobles will want the male in charge if there is an avenue to one.
@@williamshelton4318 Well they'd know, because he'd have to reveal his true identity to be King.
@@williamshelton4318 Why wouldn't he want to have sex with his Auntie though? He's not gay.
@@williamshelton4318 Dany would rule. He wouldn't rule. The only solution would be to have Dany killed.
Arya screwed over Gendry by not wanting to marry him? What is Spartan on sometimes 😂
Haha right? Arya felt comfortable with Gendry, so they had sex for the first time (thinking they would die) and then the next night, Gendry‘s asking Arya to marry her?! Arya didn’t do anything wrong here.
Testosterone, I think. Testosterone poisoning does tend to make men think that a woman who says no is a betrayer.
It would be cool if they were together BUT I don't know what was thinking Gendry by asking her to marry and be a Lady. He knows she is not a Lady and she will never be because is not her. They can marry, yes, but she will never be a Lady and she could have her adventures
I'm genuinely surprised that both of you are puzzled by Dany's behavior. Of course, she cares about possibly losing the throne to Jon. Dany spent many years in pursuit of the iron throne.
@@blissinchains exactly, I think most people sympathize with the Starks because they showed the suffering on the show but if people saw how the Targaryens were punished, murdered, and suffered they'll understand where she is coming from.
No, we're all puzzled because it came out of no where, thanks to Dumb and Dumbers lazy trash writing
@@ashkaash9819 It didn't come out of nowhere, it's been seeded many times in the show.
If you supposedly love & trust Jon, being upset that others will like him more is selfish and shows her insecurity. She only found her sense of self through conquering & couldn't share or split the country with the last of her family? An equal? Nope she wanted the bastard. Not a true king.
When Pudgey asked Spartan the question "If you'd been fighting for something your whole life, would you be able to give it up?" and he just deflects it and says idk. Not at all putting himself in Dany's shows. Very perceptive :) please smell the sarcasm.
I really wanted to hear his answer too
i feel like he often is less sympathetic and understanding when it comes to female characters? I've noticed he often will understand a man going through trauma or difficulty more then when a women does. It's probably just his perspective as a man...but just a thought.
Exactly. What you quoted is the same exact reasoning he gave for understanding and respecting Stannis 🤦♀🤦♂DESPITE Spartan witnessed him commit the unspeakably evil act of burning his own daughter alive for his ambition. No words. Dude constantly contradicts himself (is illogical) and has inconsistent standards.
@@surrealfantasy1554 I mean it's not a surprise seeing how he often treats and disrespects Pudgey: Spartan constantly dismisses her for no reason other than to invalidate her and put her down. Talk about red flags. And then when proven wrong (Pudgey being right all along) instead of manning up and owning to it he often just cowardly deflects. Real men don't do this nor treat women esp their women this way, this guy has ego and character issues.
What she is fighting for is not a noble cause. So her not being able to give it up shows how power corrupts.
The most powerful ' Dracarys ' is this one. And Daenerys choose to listen her best friend and choose violence.
False
I chose violence
Agreed. So gutteral. And as Dany should've, for a # of reasons.
She listened to a slave, someone like her that was born into a world that controlled her & took away her autonomy. So it didn't matter that logically they knew burning innocents & those that wouldn't kneel for legit reason is wrong. They have so much pain they think everything they do is justice & their judgement absolute. You'll rule over a graveyard.
25:32 Pudgey coming through with the wisdom.
Spartan, what part of Jon being disgusted by their kiss in this episode because now he knows they're related got lost in translation for you? No, Dany can't be Queen alongside Jon, because he would NEVER marry her. So yes, as someone who believed she was the Heir the whole time, it's understandable why she would beg him to keep it a secret, because as soon as literally anyone else caught wind of that they would support Jon, and the North already did support him. I guess it's also understandable why he wouldn't want to keep that secret from his family, and why Sansa spread it imeadiately. But ultimately Dany was right, and Varys immediately betraying her proves her point.
A bit disappointed that you didn't include the scene between Sansa and Tyrion.
@@thalentekhuluse2829Total Jon bias 😂
@SpiderWolffe78 yup
It’s very weird he really has a jon bias. He’s like Danny should be happy to give up the throne to Jon. Lol like how crazy to say she should be happy to give up the throne
I could tell when they didn’t spot the rising issues at the end of season 7 that they weren’t going to have any problem with season 8 either. They’re showing all the sentimental goodbye scenes and skipped the most important scene. It’s cuz they love everything Stark and don’t want to paint sansa in a bad light.
@@heyarnoldfan12Glad i'm not the only one who noticed.
Keep in mind that Dany just found out about Jon and his claim on something she’s been fighting for for so long. She’s lost Jorah, 2 of her “children” and her best friend in a very short span of time all the while seeing the love Jon has from everyone while she’s basically an outsider.
She’s gone through a ton and currently going through so much more heartache and pain… how would you react when the blood of the dragons pump the your veins?
It would have been nice to see her going through some pain about losing her "children". We are constantly TOLD that she thinks of them like children, but we never see her grieve over either one of them. Nothing says bad writing more than telling instead of showing.
@@Springheel01 Perfectly said.
How would you react to the person you love also being the last of your family? Ask him to keep living a lie that caused him so much pain? That co-ruling as equals was out of the question? She was so insecure & unable to find any sense of self beyond conquering- it would never end. Even Dario said sarcastically "hope the Iron Throne makes you happy" because he knew it never would.
"Dany is acting out of character" "Who cares who gets the throne"?? Lol. Why should she care? Are we even watching the same show?? Dany has been after the throne for 8 seasons. It was her whole storyline. The Iron Throne is her life's purpose. It is her only driving force, even after losing Drogo and their child. And now you expect her to just give it up and just be a wife to a king? Idk if you're missing the whole point of her character or you're just being blinded by your fanaticism towards Jon.
The Iron Throne has not been her sole driving force. Taking care of her people was equally as important to her, arguably more so. There have been multiple instances in the show where she actively chooses the people over The Iron Throne. Hell the books even flat out state on paper that she didn't care about going back to Westeros until it became the only place she could go.
fanaticism towards Jon blinds everybody unfortunately
@@mellemadswoestenburg1296 that was the book Dany, the show Dany is different. She would literally burn everyone next episode, so that's obviously the character the writers wrote for her. She might have been a good queen at some point, but she was gradually losing it, so it's not out of character.
@@mellemadswoestenburg1296 IN THE SHOW the iron throne is her number one motivator. She even wanted to leave Meereen before she decided to get some experience in running a city. She helps the oppressed because she empathizes with them but shes always been focused on being the last dragon and being a ruler from the beginning. If this wasn't a concern she wouldn't have been so pushy on Drogo about crossing the sea and taking the throne.
I just think Spartan only really really liked Jon in this show, besides maybe Rob, and he looks at every situation in this show based around him. So he just wants Jon to be the king, to have all the epic scenes, to be the best and all of that, and if anything conflicts with that he doesn't like it. I fully saw both Dany's and Jon's side of the story when I first watched, it makes total sense, maybe if that storyline was developed more (ahem if d&d didn't rush anything) I would like it so much more, but it was still the most realistic way that this situation will go. Idk why Spartan was expecting Jon to run around and tell everyone who he is when he was told that he is AT, and then just go ahead and rule the Seven kingdoms. I already see that he will be furious about Jon going back to the wall, not that I liked that ending for him either, but I also never wanted the ending where Jon sits on the Iron Throne anyway and Spartan only wants that.
ned: kept it a secret for 18 year and lost his head and didn't talk
sansa: spilled it in less than a day
Well, Ned actually *wanted* Robert to be king.
Sansa uses the information that she has to her advantage, regardless of her vow to keep it a secret. She has essentially become Littlefinger. It's why I hate that line about Littlefinger, Ramsay, and Cersei making her what she is today (a strong woman) with a passion. Because a) what she shows isn't strength, and b) it perpetuates the trope that women can only become strong if they have gone through something awful, instead of being strong from the get-go.
Ned kept his secret for Jon's sake; Sansa spills the beans for Jon's sake.
If that were the case she would have proposed Jon as king when they have the big meeting in the Dragonpit in the last episode. I mean, it was established that he had the best claim (debatable, but let's roll with it), and the only one at the meeting who would object to it would be Grey Worm and possibly Yara. Granted, Grey Worm has an army, but there's nothing left in Westeros for him to fight for anyway. Jon would have been the most logical option, but she doesn't say a thing.
@@Zainiologywhat's your point?
Spartan dude when did Dany try to "get her family back on the throne" ? Remember that she thinks she's infertile. She would have been the last Targaryen.
Not necessarily true even in the books the discussion was brought up outside of Daenerys, everyone else thinks the witch was full of shit. It's also entirely plausible her deliriousness after flying drogon outta meeren was caused by miscarriage 🤷🏽 so there's that
[Everyone praises Jon Snow.]
[Dany watches on with disdain on her face.]
Pudgey: "That's good for Dany to hear."
Drawing the exact opposite conclusion from what is really going on. Denial is deep. After seasons of bend the knee and if you betray me I'll burn you alive, they're surprised when she doesn't just give it all up.
I do agree about Jaime, though. I was disappointed by that U-turn.
Eh, I don't think Daenerys was looking at Jon in disdain. Rather, she was looking at him in envy - because he was celebrated around friends, for doing amazing things (the way she was celebrated in Essos). Yet, here in the cold North of Westeros, she's still a stranger. Does it matter to the Westerosi that she lost her closest friend and one of her dragons for Jon? Nope, not at all.
Everyone was with their friends, celebrating a battle won and she was alone.
@@cainyourkids I think I meant the look she was giving the people praising him but yes, maybe that was the wrong word.
Danni's issue is not so much John wanting the throne, but rather other men would plot to over throw, or assassinate her,then put John on the throne . westerosi lords for the most part have always pushed towards having a king rule . we saw this with rhaenys and rhaenyra, and that is what Danni fears.
not sure. I dont know whether she got such detailed history lessons
more to do with her being a foreigner than a woman. westeros considered her an outsider.
The fact they watched season 1 of HOTD before watching GOT and can’t see this is wild.
And Jon is too naive to understand this - even Sansa betraying him within five minutes of learning his secret (and vowing to keep it) isn't sufficient for him to comprehend the situation. He thinks that telling the secret Ned kept for 30 years to an untrustworthy sibling who never liked him and who had been undermining him at every turn is a smart move. Let's remember this is the guy who got himself murdered by his own men for his naivety,
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 Remember Jon ignoring all plans and riding alone to the middle of the battlefield in the Battle of the Bastards? Jon is too emotional and not capable of analyzing what his enemys are doing
Of course Dany is paranoid. Throughout Westerosi History, men have always been favoured over females for the throne. But you are so blinded by this idea of “true warriors” that you forget that Dany is just as much as a warrior as Jon. She might not wield a sword but she rides a dragon, she crucified the masters, frees the slaves. Endured being traded, sexually assaulted and being held hostage. In my opinion she has every right to be paranoid and furious now that she has lost both dragons and both her best friends.
@@blissinchains Exactly! I always rooted for both Daenerys and Jon ( a little bit of Cersei because I find her 😂)
But Spartan only likes Jon 😂 I think he fancies him 🤷♂️
Jon is great but Dany is the better ruler in my opinion as she will bring the Targaryen dynasty back to where it belongs. As Queen and as a Dragon Rider. I know Jon is technically the “rightful king” and he can ride a Dragon. But his Dragon is dead and he doesn’t want to be King.
Dany isn’t mad like her dad. She is just grieving. And she was just doing what everyone else has done, in war, for centuries. But because she’s a “Women” or a “Targaryen” she can’t control her emotions so therefore she isn’t a good ruler. SMH. I am a man and even I see this blatant sexism😂
Spartan needs to do better 😂
Dany was never smart, Just stern . With or without the history of westoros . Dany was gonna fail. Jon is a true warrior, gave the command and wielded the sword , and spared men for a reason. Dany was my favourite in the beginning,after repeating the series almost 10 times . Dany was just a imbecile with dragons. Burned and killed anybody who stood in her way for the good or bad , enemy or allies. The gods flipped a coin and she came out a badass psychopath we love . Everyone blamed her advisors , I blame her for not being smart enough. She only begins to make her own decisions when she sees best (majority of the time when she’s lost ) that’s when she makes the worst decision. Jon is a bastard with nothing to inherit shamed and spat upon. What he’s done is small compared to dany ,but it shows how long you can go with nothing. The misogyny in Westeros is a threat,but in the end lady stark Sansa beat the odds. The best they could ask for. Jon snow owes dany nothing, in fact every one owed him something because him not making allies and bending the knee would’ve costed dany and the whole realm. See if dany put her life on facing them alone she would’ve lost it already. Danaerys is a conqueror not a ruler very fitting to her reason behind her goal , she should be called “breaker of the wheel “ nothing more nothing less. After claiming the throne she continued to Execute surrendering swordsmen and burning children. Dany is and was a disease, Varys questioned hyping her up so much . The world dany wanted to build clearly would’ve been ruled better under Aegean Targaryen sixth of his name . If dany wants to do what everyone did then why would she want to create a world of mercy . No one gets to choose one of danys last words. Kings are chosen not born after all🤣🤣😭
All Dani ever wanted was the iron throne. Now it’s nearly hers, she sees it about to get taken away. No one could empathise with her position.
And, Bronn is a sell-sword….Stannis always said they are loyal to no one, to nothing…..but gold. Stannis knew the lay of the land.
Dany wanted to free the innocent slaves and peasants, to break the wheel, not to turn regular citizens into jerky. If she only wanted power she would have worked with the slave owners and aristocracy the whole time.
@@pox1396 correct but here we are talking about this episode not episode 5.
Yes, just like Stannis. It won't end well.
I really hate that line that Dany says because it's flat out not true. Before Viserys died she literally could not care less about Westeros or the Iron Throne. "She had never seen this land her brother said was theirs, this land beyond the Narrow Sea. These places he talked of, Casterly Rock and the Eyrie, Highgarden and The Vale of Arryn, Dorne and the Isle of Faces, they were just words to her. All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known."
Imagine working on a presidential campaign for years just so that somebody could tell you at the end that you should be happy to be first lady
that stark pin Sansa gives Theon never fails to make me tear up. He struggled so much with his identity, in the end he was welcomed as a Stark by the Starks.
"Bron's out of character"
Yeah, that's sorta the theme now
For other characters yeah but not Bron. Bron will work for who pays him the most
20:22 *JON SUCKS AS A PARTNER AND AS A LEADER.* He's so foolish he can't understand that even if he loves Dany, he is a political threat to her. Moreover, he acts like there is no compromise. Like he needs to tell his secret to his siblings immediately, when he can wait. They can agree to tell them AFTER Cersei is defeated, AFTER Dany is settled. This is such BS. Blame the writers.
Very good point. If he trully didn't want the throne and cared for Dany, he could've waited untill the waters had settled to reveal his secret to his family. But then that would've implied a lot more planning and writing, and we all know how eager Dumb and Dumber were to be rid of this show.
yeah, just another example of terrible writing.
spartan completely misunderstands danys pov. if everyone knew about jons true identity then everyone would want him to become king of the seven kingdoms that is why dany rightfully sees jon as a threat
Yup he is totally missing that point big time, I think it's quite an obvious assumption but he's just so team Jon that's all he can see!
I think Dany is heartbroken too. And going crazy with all the trauma. She knows she has lost Jon and the throne. I felt bad for her until well we will see…
the first three words of your comment is enough to summarize this channel's reaction to this series
@chuhrros True 😂😂😂
But Jon doesn't want it, and Dany could solve it by marrying him anyway, not a single decent reason was given in the show why that would be a problem.
Well, except one throwaway line by Varys about how the North "wouldn't approve of marrying your aunt", which makes absolutely zero sense, is contradicted by the actual lore, and is only invented as a "reason" because the dreadfully incompetent showrunners wanted a Jon/Dany marriage to be impossible because otherwise the plot couldn't happen.
I don't understand why Daenerys has to trust Jon. He banged her and as soon as he found out the truth about his identity he avoided her. She was the one to find him in the crypts to see what's going on. Also he gave up the North even though he did not have to, but he told his bannerments the opposite. He didn't try to close the gap between Daenerys and his sister or the Northerners and out of the blue he says he is the heir! Why would she trust him! He's been the boyfriend from hell for her! She believes they used her and now they want to get rid of her. Sansa surely does
All of this! Thank you! But somehow Daenerys is always seen as the monster when almost everyone around her was playing victim and villain at the same time!
@@kllrj08 In my country we say people eat whatever others serve them. Or people buy what others sell. Meaning they are naive and they believe what they are told or shown. That's what D&D try to show us here. That Jon is the nice guy and all the others are worst. Everything else others do is wrong. However no one could ever be more wrong in that particular scene than Jon.
@@kllrj08 People are usually not upset with Danny, they're usually upset at her being written horrifically. They could have hit these plot beats without it feeling left field and horrific.
Oh my, exactly! Wish people saw it this clearly. Also, I love Jon but he's always been an awful boyfriend, even to Ygritte. Betrayed her so badly and then everyone called her names for wanting Jon dead. Why does Jonny boy get this fan fav treatment even when he's at fault and other people's actions against him are justified?
it's gotta be that D
In this episode we saw the biggest atrocity of all to take place. Jon discarding Ghost like trash without as much as a scratch behind the ears. The directors deserve the walk of shame for that!
Thats quite simple to explain. Jon himself knew, that if he would go and pet him, he wouldnt be able to leave him behind. Look at him and the look in his face when he looked over to Ghost.
@@heiko3169 Here's one better: *Don't* leave Ghost behind.
You do know they reunite again 2 episodes later, right? 😂
Spartan really can’t stand pudgey knowing more than him.
“And before you think she’s got a good memory….she hasn’t…… we were talking about it earlier”
😬 ok bro. 👍🏻
Typical dynamic in couples where the woman is smarter than the guy. The woman has to continually try to conceal that fact from her partner, and allow him to assert dominance in other ways so he can feel good about himself.
I can’t stand spartan most of the time now, didn’t mind him at first but now I react to him the same way he reacts to Cersei 😂😂 “YUCK!!” I think most of us can agree we’re mostly here for Pudgy. She carries these reactions and knows what she’s talking about most of the time while spartan is clueless every time.
Yes..I hate how he dismisses her points...that is why I only watch the actual reaction and not the discussions...I like their format of the video and they can have different points of view but I don't like how he treats her in that aspect...sorry but it is like gaslighting to me
Spartan - being Jon's Queen is NOT the same as being The Queen. Men don't have the same issue, they are never "Someone's" King. Just a thought ✌️
The fact we didn’t even get to see Jon tell his true parentage is the biggest joke in the series, firm handshakes to D&D for turning it into a skit
Telling Arya and Sansa about Jon was probably Bran's only contribution to this whole series to date. The rest of the time he sits with his eyes rolled back scouting and seeing the past. I can't believe George R.R. Martin created the character and put his story line in for that 3 minutes and he'd have nothing else of importance to see, plan for or help in the fight for the night king besides sitting as bait in a chair.
Dungeons and Dragons turned it into a skit? I could only get through 30 minutes of that awful movie.
@@jrafel1707 In Winds of Winter what you will discover is that Bran is a huge pervert who spends most of his time watching people in the past have sex, including his own parents. This was foreshadowed in the first episode of the series when he spied on Cersei and Jamie.
@@jesses5463Yeah, that’s called being 12.
Yup, that was the most disappointing shit ever.
"Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet." - Benioff & Weiss (Showrunners)
Arya saying they dont trust danny or they dont need allies AFTER she won them the war is absolute abomination, both arya n sansa irritated me that last season so much that I wished the night king was there for them.
Same here. After watching Danny's forces being in the front lines in the last episode, after watching Greyworm have to literally pull the plug on many of his brothers to activate the tranches and give everyone else a chance... To hearing Sansa have the AUDACITY to say in this episode that "Arya was the one who killed the Night King" and therefore completely dismiss their efforts... Makes my blood boil.
So many annoying character moments in this episode.
Sansa, Arya and Jon pissed me off. Jon for treating Dany totally different after finding out who he really is. Arya for saying they didnt trust Dany when there is no reason to not trust her and Sansa for pretty much acting like a little bitch ever since she met Dany but she pissed me off the most when after they win the war against the NK she pretty much did not want to send the North's Army with Dany's like it was agreed.
Or in the previous episode Arya saying Sansa is the smartest person she knows. Gimme a break. Who came up with this dribble.
They had every right not to trust her, everyone can clearly see she is unstable af lol.
Also, this episode explains what Podrick did with those whores all those seasons ago..
In this episode, when they're playing the drinking game, Tyrion tells Brienne to drink if she's a virgin, in the background you see Podrick take a drink.. I believe he sang to them, songs were like stories and it was probably a refreshing change to the men they usually encounter. That's why they didn't take his money. And they probably covered for him because if he'd gone back to Tyrion and Bron, who are frequent brothel users, they probably would have laughed at him. Who goes to a brothel to sing? Lol. He didn't have a magic cock, he had a magic voice.
Spartan is jus a huge Jon biased that’s why he couldn’t really understand where Dany is coming from. Hope you see things in a much bigger picture of what at stake for both parties and not only what is shown in the episode.
Dany has lived her entire life without power and seen ppl abuse power and as a consequence she does not trust anyone else with power but herself.
It's perfectly understandable.
I think it is really important to remember Dany’s upbringing, to understand her perspective on life. She was told by her only brother, who was basically her father figure growing up that Westeros was their home. More than that, they needed to take the Iron Throne back. The Targaryens ruled for 300 years. Their family has a lot of history in Westeros. I don’t blame her for being paranoid, considering what happened to her father and entire family.
Spartan really thought that Dany and Jon would rule together as a couple, bruh this is not Cinderella. The only thing Dany has ever wanted was to be Queen. She would not lived under the fallacy of a dual ruling because deep down she knows that the people prefer Jon and by default he would be THE king and she the consort. It's that simple.
Dany absolutely wanted to stay with Jon, what are you on about
The show made clear in S1E06 that she believes herself to be "The Dragon", not her dead brother, not Jon.
@@timmcgrath8030 You missed my point completely. She wants to be with Jon however she reacts this way because Jon is a threat to what she wants most, TO BE QUEEN.
Sometimes I feel like he paid little attention to the characters and just was into scenes because he kept saying "out of character" like some angry teen on Twitter.
He’s always been a little dense about this kind of stuff 🙃
Not noticing the Iron Fleet from that high above is a story line pulled by the hair but it is what it is. More episodes might have justified the loss of another dragon at a different pace. Enjoy the last two episodes for what they are.
awful writing is what is the accurate term for that.
It wasn't even necessary for her the plot. Her being up high in the air and feeling safe would have justified her being a little careless. She also didn't know they had these weapsons on the ships. The showrunners explanation of the scene was stupid. But the scene itself still works fine.
However, I think they should have moved the scene to another episode.
I think it would have been more dramatic if Danny started flying over King's Landing after they surrendered and THEN they shot one of her Dragons down! The motivation to kill everyone would have been more understandable for the audience. It would have been like giving Danny road rage instead of making her a clear cut villain.
@@thinkhector Good point - I didn't think of this though I still doubt she was able to overlook the fleet or at least something at the horizon but this is all talk without consequence - kind of.
That scene could have gone 90% the same and actually worked really well. All they had to do was make Dany see the fleet and charge them with the dragons. They shoot a bunch of spears, Rhaegal is hit multiple times and dies, while Dany retrieves back up into the sky with Drogon. There, the same stuff happened and now it makes sense. But nooooo, they had to SHOCK us with spears coming out of nowhere, for Jesus sake... 🙄🙄🙄
Spartan is being a little unfair towards dany. She's right when she told jon it doesn't matter what he wants, if his true heritage was known it would spark a chain of events that he won't be able to control. Him being male alone will ganner support for him over her. And if you add the fact that his name is "AEGON" that's a double wamy, and most importantly he is a man of "Westeros" not a foreigner.
If those wankers D&D had passed the writing and producing baton to people that cared about ending the show the right way, instead of rushing and butchering something that wasn't theirs to destroy, we could have seen a "Second dance of the Dragons"
Jon wasn't much into the incest angle. Once he found out they were related, he didn't want the relationship anymore.
yeah but its not like she could get pregnant! 😬
jon is a bastard, he always gonna be.
@@alzer6467 sus
dont starks have a history of marrying their cousins? would it really be that weird for him to bang his aunt?
@@arobin6695historically a lot of people married their cousins, but aunt/uncle/niece/nephew/brother/sister is a little too close. You share a lot more DNA with those relations than you do with a cousin.
Bronn was totally in character. He was friends/friendly with them but from the start his drive and character was a sellsword. Thatss who he is and will always firstly look after himself. Thats why Tyrion told him, if anybody asks you to kill me, I will pay double, Even when he saved jamie, he told him a dragon doesnt get to kill, you dont get to kill you, only I get to kill you
I agree! Bronn is a sellsword. He goes where the money resides.
@@jfyigdfgeuh And why shouldnt they be able to offer it to him? The Tyrells are gone. Defeated and killed, and their gold being occupied by the Lannisters. Highgarden is owned by the Lannisters now. Any Lord that would speak up against the Lannisters and what they are doing, would be executed immediately.
Just like now in HOTD, a male heir is a danger. As long as Jon is a Targaryen, the rightful heir, no matter how much he doesn’t want it, the people will want him on the throne. This directly threatens Dany life. She loves Jon but him knowing they’re family he cant be with her in his eyes. She lost Jorah, her dragons, Missandei, her love, everyone who is close to her is conspiring against her. She’s completely alone. I never though she was losing it here, she lost absolutely everything and no one even trusts her after everything she did. She has all the right to be mad.
Okay but "all the right to be mad" does not include and extend to slaughtering innocent citizens with dragon fire, unless by mad you mean insane, and if any of the events leading up to The Bells contributed to that, then Dany was never stable enough or fit to rule to begin with.
Yup, even if they were married and ruled together it would always be a threat to her life and breaking the wheel. Because she cannot bear children she would be expected to die early so that Jon could create Heirs with a new queen
@@IndomitableAde "If any of the events leading up to The Bells contributed to that..." Actually, the events that contributed to this absurd "Mad Queen" imposition were clearly the offer to D&D to make Star Wars movies, and their consequent desire the kick GOT to the kerb ASAP. There really is little point in trying to critique the final episodes as though they were an authentic wrap-up of the story. Dany might just as well have used a variation of Jessica Rabbit's classic line: "I'm not bad - I'm just written that way!"
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 what I meant by any of the events leading up to the Bells is everything everyone overlooked and cheered for during Dany's rise to power. From killing the masters in order to steal The Unsullied to crucifying all the masters in Meereen, to threatening to feed the remaining heads of the noble houses to her dragons in order to find out who was behind the Sons of the Harpy, to the execution of the Tarlys. Dany is a conqueror yes, but she is also a destabilizer and she was never a good ruler.
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 I don't share your emotional opinion.
Time ago i commented about how dany felt alone and someone said that she wasn't, she had tyron and missandei... her chosen family... yet, tyron had jamie and missandei had grey worm and she, she couldn't feel to had even Jhon anymore, she felt he was a treat to what she wanted, she couldn't trust him.. then.. she lost missandei and she chose revenge and madness... she was in fact, alone.
"she lost missandei and she chose revenge and madness."
You don't choose mental illness
@@BhBc8f8 this one is true too, also because whenever they talked about targarians, they talk about the pending madness so yeah, u r right too.
Ps. Sorry for my English 🌈
I agree.
u da man
She had Drogon
I really don’t understand why they’re liking 7/8 so much. None of the characters are themselves. The writing is terrible. None of the plotting makes any sense. Jon gets robbed of his entire arc. Arya learns to fly. The night king wasn’t a threat at all. Everyone has plot armor. There’s no danger. People teleport all over the place.
It’s SO bad.
Also, Cercei clearly isn’t pregnant. Since she announced it it’s been like well over 9 months in universe time. No baby bump. Nothing.
Spartan saying it’s good writing had me rolling.
"dAnY kInDa FoRgOt AbOuT tHe IrOn FlEeT."
How could she remember they hit her with mind wipe technology along with an iron fleet that can cloak with rail guns weapons
She swallowed the amnesia water
@@DonkeyFrost129MC not just Dany... Tyrion and Varys forgot that uncle/niece & aunt/nephew marriages aren't taboo in Westeros (or in real life medieval age)
@@archmaester6594 lol yup… almost every character at the end forgot who they were and what they stood for
Interesting how so many things seem to go over Spartan's head...also, Dany has had ONE goal from day one. Go back home and be queen. Jon is a threat. If the people find out that he is a Targaryen, they will want to put him in power. Of course she's paranoid.
She is not paranoid, the threat to her claim and rule is very real and is not even solved entirely by marriage with Jon. It's just that the way it was presented, it looked off. Just badly written.
on day one she didnt think she'd become queen, remember she's supposed to be the sister of the ''rightful'' king Vicerys whom let's remember was going to use the dothraki army to go back home and rule... She only started seeing differently later in season 1. The one goal from day 1 to go back and rule was Vicerys's desire, not Dany's.
That wasn’t her only goal from day one. Otherwise she would have sided with the masters or whoever was more powerful/beneficial. She also said she wanted to “break the wheel” at one point but guess that was forgotten about.
Lmfao her goal was for Viserys to be king from day one. For the first 20-odd years of her life. She only had the goal to be queen to “Break the wheel”, once Viserys died, remember? And to restore the “rightful heir” to the throne. To restore her family’s name. All that jazz that she suddenly doesn’t give a shit about as soon as Aegon is alive.
You know, the entirety of her character? Making the world a better place for the common people?
All of that important shit that you mindless Dany fanatics “kinda forgot” about.
Not really out of character for Bron. He will work for the person that has the highest bid for him, Cersei currently holds that so he won't stop until he gets a better proposal.
They didn’t understand his character. they love Tyrion so they just saw him in the good light as Tyrion’s buddy and not that he is a cutthroat who helps Tyrion for gold and said he would kill babies if the price tag was high enough.
I’m looking forward to seeing you guys react to this and the next few episodes. Sending you both lots of love, hugs and positive energy from the UK.
Why? They're awful
@@michaelsuder486 then why are you watching their reactions?
@@sh4d0w-r0ss-8 He means the episodes are awful, not their reactions
@@gandhialwaysleavesanonion679 yeah but if he thinks the episodes are awful why is he watching people react to them?
@@sh4d0w-r0ss-8 Because theres still a lot of entertainment to have, watching potentially his favorite reaction channel watch an awful episode of a great show- Its not like hes here to rewatch the shit episode.
Yeah, this is where everything really started to unravel and stupid decisions were made by the writers. I hated Jamie sleeping with Brienne and agree with everyone talking about Danerys not seeing the fleet from her altitude. More of that coming up, sadly.
Please remember the Brianne and Arya spar. Arya dropped the knife to her other hand and stabbed Brianne. A major foreshadow to her killing the Night King.
i only noticed that when watching these reactions. was impressed :D
Bronn is 1000% true to his character. Not only is he tired of being promised payment time after time by Tyrion and Jaime, he has ALWAYS looked out for himself above all else. Think back to Tyrion’s trial in season 4- Bronn refused to fight the Mountain on Tyrion’s behalf, even though they’re great friends. And Tyrion wasn’t mad at all because he knows who Bronn is and always has been.
It sucks to see, but this is exactly how Bronn would have handled the situation. Might not like it, but it’s definitely his character
it was so stupid of cersei to hire him in the first place and so stupid of Tyrion to give him highgarden even though he obviously was never going to shoot either of them
tbf, they expected the Hound and Arya to hug, so....
@@nickrubin7312 right 😂 knowing full well that Sandor Clegane hasn’t hugged a soul in his entire life
@@arobin6695 why was it stupid to give him Highgarden? Who else was supposed to have it? Why not give it to your friend who has, time and again, done the dirty work for both Tyrion and Jaime because he was promised more gold and a bigger and bigger castle?
And if you don’t think Bronn would have shot one of them (probably Jaime) if they didn’t agree to give him what he wanted then you don’t understand what Bronn is about.
@@curtismoore6576 because nobody in the Reach knows this random murderer who has no wife and no heirs and no connection to that land and who lives in King's Landing anyway at the end? There was a 0% chance of Bronn shooting either of them, the audience knows that and every character in that scene knows that.
It’s almost like spartan forgot the last 8 seasons and Danys whole mission and reason for becoming queen. That’s all her life has been and in a split second everything changed.
And all because Danny "forgot" about the fleet, what a wonder writing 😂