Want to watch EARLY or access the UNCUT reaction? Join us on Patreon for Early access to episodes 7x4, 7x5 & 7x6 & 7x7 & 8x1 (EDITED & UNCUT) + 8x2 & 8x3 (UNCUT) + Histories & Lore S7 www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
I can’t help it, I’ve loved every major player this season, including Cersei. Elaria deserved every second of her punishment. Don’t forget, her daughter is a stone cold killer, as is Elaria. Cersei’s daughter was one of the few completely innocent people in the show. She deserved to be avenged. And frankly that nun was a monster too, completely abusing her power. She was a petty tyrant, she played her own game and she lost. She could have just treated Cersei humanely and she wouldn’t have received the fate she got, being raped to death over days, weeks or months by the mountain. I think it’s something about Lena Heady’s performance. Spartan clearly doesn’t agree, but I think she gives Cersei a certain sense of humanity and honor that Cersei in the books completely lacked. Hmmmm. It sounds like Spartan might LOVE season 8.
unironically, put your hate for Cersei aside for a second, Ellaria sand deserved her fate, Marcella was an innocent child, who died on behalf of revenge for a grown man who chose to die fighting in fair combat for his revenge, i don't have pity for her. Oberyn would have been ashamed of her
_"...put your hate for Cersei aside for a second"_ Yeah seriously, who really thinks - for a second - that that's gonna happen? The Cersei Hate is baked in now. I'm really looking forward to seeing their reaction when, you know...
@@FrankeNamensKarim She helped kill Myrcella, she was there and handed her mother the cloth to wipe her nose. She knew exactly what was going on. Tyene is the one who uses that poison - she gave Bronn the antidote.
@@FrankeNamensKarimEllaria had a whole conversation with her daughters asking if they were in on her plans (killing Myrcella, the price and his heir). They all agreed. So they were all complicit. Cersei doesn't know that, of course. For her it's just an eye for an eye. But as viewers we know and so Tyene dying isn't exactly an innocent being killed.
People get in knots about how Dany treats Jon, but she literally has no idea who the guy is, nor what he does or stands for. We as the audience know that, she does not. All she knows he is a son of a man that helped bring down her family and is part of the reason she grew up without anything. Ofc she is a bit brusque and demanding, she is the new player in the game and she needs to project power and respect. She wants to restore her dynasty in all of the Seven Kingdoms. But she comes around pretty soon, she just gives him a bit of political rough talking in the beginning, but gets to admire his values pretty much immediately. It would be so unrealistic if these two characters who went through all of what they did during 6 seasons, just meet and become allies and friends as soon as they see each other.
@@kitlow2970 He came to her throne room, in her ancestral seat, to ask for her help. He is in no position to talk down to anyone. Even if he is a kind of guy who would not.
@@kitlow2970 No, but he does expect her to just shut up, believe everything he says without question, and run to the North, dropping EVERYTHING she has worked for ever since she was sold to the Dothraki. All this, WITHOUT proof. He doesn't need to talk down to her. It's already insulting as it is.
also, this whole 'independent north' is only due to not liking the current ruler ned was warden and was fine so i don't get how everyone cares so much about that either anyway, it's obvious dany likes jon even if she is telling him to bend the knee to her, so she can ensure his loyalty she wouldn't want loyalty from someone she doesn't like or can't trust
Don't really get the sympathy for Ellaria, she murdered an innocent in Myrcella and murdered her lover's brother while also going directly against what Oberyn believes "we don't murder children in Dorne".
Exactly! Myrcella was innocent and Ellaria murdered her for absolutely no reason other than that she wanted to. She didn't achieve justice. Heck, she didn't even get proper revenge - Tywin was already dead and Cersei had nothing to do with Oberyn's death or his sister's death.
Lmao. That's how my reaction was too. I was like Ellaria is not someone I feel sympathy for at all. She did lots of dumb things. Also, The Sand Snakes were kind of a let down in general.
The fact is that Dany doesn't know him, doesn't know she can trust him, she's already fighting a war with Cersei and then this man she doesn't know and so far is not her allie is asking her to fight another war ? Dany has a lot to lose too. Their behavior (Jon and Danny) is fair from both perspectives
Dany not believing in the White Walkers is fine. But in Mireen she said she wanted to "Destroy the Wheel" and in one of her first meeting in Westeros, she wants the old allegiances to return(wanting a Stark to bend the knee cause House Stark once bent the knee to House Targaryen). I thought she wanted to break the old rules?
@@johnnyskinwalker4095it's more so, she can't break then wheel without power. She needs to be in power to topple it. So she needs allegiances with other houses
Actually, Dany should know who Jon Snow is, he's the son of the honorable to a fault -Ned Stark. Dany being uninformed about Ned always bothered me. No one bothered to tell her that he threw his badge of office in the King's face. The last Hand to do that was burned alive for his insolence...by her father. Varys is 'the Spider' in name only now, Tyrion is intelligent enough to know Jon is telling the truth, that's the true reason he went to Castle Black now looking back, to bond with Jon and Jeor, before leaving he promised Jeor to help them with the crown and he does send men from the dungeon when he's Hand... The significance of Tyrion visiting the Wall; At first, Tyrion writes off the Wall's significance, but seeing it in person changes his opinion. Then, later understanding the true gravity of the Wall, Tyrion accepts that it is indeed important.. The Wall officially piques Tyrion's interest, as curiosity often drives him. In the first book Tyrion is playing a logic game with Jon. Obviously the Wall has unnatural properties, and Jon is typical Jon, missing the point because he's brooding; “It’s nothing special,” Jon said. He wanted to ride with Benjen Stark on his rangings, deep into the mysteries of the haunted forest, wanted to fight Mance Rayder’s wildlings and ward the realm against the Others, but it was better not to speak of the things you wanted. “The rangers say it’s just woods and mountains and frozen lakes, with lots of snow and ice.” *“And the grumkins and the snarks,”* Tyrion said. “Let us not forget them, Lord Snow, or else what’s that big thing for?” (AGOT, Jon III) So Tyrion understands the significance of the Wall, and is in a unique position to properly advise Daenerys about Jon and on what the Wall falling means to her plans. Could be mixing up show and book, but, when the small council receives the plea from the nights watch to help with white walkers, doesn't everyone laugh it off except for Tyrion who says "Mormont wouldn't lie"? Why is Tyrion and Dany not asking the honorable Jon Snow about his desertion, surely this is something that Tyrion will want more info on, and I thought Mel was there to tell Dany about the resurrection and also proving the dead can really come back to life, but she is just wasted...
@@latraeosborne3287 The main problem is that Westeros is very different from Essos. It's more about politics and negotiations and so forth, not about conquest. The Targaryen House has been completely whiped out from the country. So her acting so forceful and thinking people will bend the knee to the Targaryens make no sense. Her fall ultimately came because of that, she did not understand Westeros.
Lol Cersei's revenge against Ellaria is one of my favourite scenes honestly. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes fully deserved it, they murdered an innocent girl and killed Oberyn's own brother and nephew, he would have killed Ellaria himself for that
@82joon Yeah she is responsible for Tommen (albeit indirectly). Myrcella was sent to Dorne by Tyrion which Cersei opposed, so not sure how she can be blamed for that, she didn't have anything to do with Elia's death and Oberyn willingly entered a trial by combat so that's fully on Ellaria and the Sand Snakes for taking a stupid "revenge". Don't know how anyone could believe she was responsible for Joffrey's death in any sense. But yeah I definitely think they are a bit blinded by hatred for Cersei, she's nowhere near as bad as Joffrey or Ramsay or even the Mountain (pre-zombification). They did like Tywin though, who was equally ruthless (but smarter), he ordered the Red Wedding, ordered a gang rape on Tyrion's first wife, ordered Tyrion's death and treated him (well all his kids) awfully, ordered the Sack of King's Landing and the deaths of Elia and the children, massacred the Reynes of Castamere, ordered the Mountain to sack the Riverlands and murder and rape innocent smallfolk... if Cersei did any of that you can imagine the response
@@beclou9832 Well said. I think Pudgey goes along with Spartan, unfortunately. His eclipse-sized blind spot is spoiling this. The irony is, I think it'll make the ending all the more bitter for him.
@@beclou9832Cersei was responsible for Joffrey's death by not being able to raise him better or even control him... Blaming Tyrion blindly caused the death of Obeyrin as well. Cersei only makes enemies and doesn't think beyond her nose, her attitude and actions led to the death of her children, indirectly
This. Imagine you return to claim a throne, and some guy who already claims a part of your kingdom tells you he wants your help killing a bunch of walking dead people, and some ice dudes. You'd either think it was a scam to lure you to your death, or the guy was totally nuts. Don't blame Jon for asking, but don't blame Dany for not believing it either.
@@greenstranger7721 Right. To be honest, even if someone I knew pretty well asked me to help them murder an army of icy zombies, I'd be questioning their sanity.
She has magical dragons & was unburnt. She wants everyone to believe she wasn't burnt in a pyre but she won't believe what obviously is a trust worthy person?
@@orphanedhanyouagain his only “obviously a trustworthy person” to us the viewers because we have seen his story and character development. She just met him she has no idea if she can trust him or not her closest advisor, Jorah even betrayed her at some point so it would have been unrealistic for her to trust him right away.
That scene with Cersei and Ellaria, I didn’t see it as Cersei’s justice, but rather Myrcella’s. She was an innocent little girl who was murdered and became a pawn in a game between her mother and a woman who wanted revenge even though Oberyn knew the risks of doing the Trial by Combat. Oberyn technically wasn’t “murdered”, although it breaks my heart that he died, because he knew what he was getting into. Ellaria murdering Myrcella in return was evil, and in a way, she got her own back by doing that to her. I wouldn’t say she deserved it, but for Myrcella’s sake, she needed to realise that her actions only reflected Cersei’s, and she was almost just as bad because she knew what Oberyn stood for - they don’t hurt little girls in Dorne, and Oberyn would be so disappointed and disgusted with what his lover had done by doing that and murdering his brother and nephew.
The acting in the scene is so on point too. The way that Cersei really flexes it, you can tell she's planned her speech to remind Ellaria what she did, remind her that Oberyn could have won if not for taunting the Mountain and then make the final blow. But even with her planned speech her voice still cracks when she asks "why did you do that". Ellaria is gagged but still showed a huge range of emotions, you see her hate for Cersei, her smirk when Cersei mentions Myrcella (no remorse even now) then the terror when she realises what is happening, even Tyene being too terrified to talk and managing just one last cry for her mother when she realises what Cersei has done, it's all so perfect
26:05 Her brother brought up one of the most traumatic days of her life. Sansas reaction to the recounting of her wedding night had nothing to do with what Littlefinger said, it was just a trauma response.
literally idk how they didnt understand that imagine ur brother you havent seen in years randomly bringing up something really traumatic happening to you in such a monotone weirdo way and calling u beautiful that night, i'd be creeped out and having to rethink about that time would make anyone upset
For real, I have no sadnest about Ellaria's fate... She killed Mircella (who was completely innocent of the crimes perpetrated by her parents and her grandfather), to avenge the death of her lover. Except that Oberyn was himself a volunteer for this duel, and that he himself caused his death by allowing himself to be distracted (In particular by Ellaria by the way...). Subsequently, she attempted to assassinate Mircella for the first time using her daughter (as well as Oberyn's other daughters), Ellaria's revenge therefore being greater than her desire to protect her child... Her first assassination attempt failed, and her lover's brother forgave her and gave her a second chance which she used to kill Mircella and assassinate Doran. I think that if Oberyn was still alive, he would never have forgiven Ellaria for the murder of his brother (whom he loved) and his children. Also, Ellaria's fate is... Deserved. And I could pity her daughter Tyerne, because she wasn't "innocent" either. She was an accomplice in Mircella's assassination, and was not a fragile young girl but a devious warrior. Also finally, the punishment seems to me at the height of the cruelty which they showed, in the series in any case. In the books, the plot has NOTHING TO SEE and is totally different from the beginning, the characters are all very different. In the books, Ellaria is a totally minor character who will on the contrary seek to prevent the asps of the sands from seeking revenge. Also, none of the Dorne characters (apart from Oberyn) really match what GRR Martin wrote. None.
The reality is that Dorne plot is so good in the books that all in the show is fanfiction from D&D, the same about all that happens in Casterly Rock and the Tyrells
i honestly dont see where the sympathy for show ellaria comes from lmao, especially since oberyn died in a fight HE chose to take part in. I cant believe Cersei still gets blamed for that lmao Oh the show also did Casterly Rock so dirty i forgot, but man the transition to the lannister army with the music goes so well, i hope we get to hear it in hotd for tyland as well!
People whose favorite is Jon always forget that Daenerys has no idea who he is. It is we, as spectators, who see what kind of person he is, it is we who saw the White Walkers with him. For Daenerys, he is the son of a man who was the best friend of the man who brought down her family. She DOESN'T KNOW him. From her point of view, he may turn out to be a bad person and harm her. And it’s generally ridiculous to think about the White Walkers, if you imagine the situation in which Jon came to Daenerys. So they are BOTH right in their own way.
Their scene was a good one. They pointed out their perspectives to each other and both showed respect. Dany did nothing here that she didn’t do in Essos. She told everyone to bend the knee to her. In Essos viewers cheered her but when she said it to Jon, some bashed her for keeping in character.
@bereasonable8018 it's almost like Dany is a monarch and people are supposed to bend the knee, aegon asked the same ,so did stannis and so did stannis,it's the norm
@@samtinashemaraya2322 agreed. I guess the difference is that Dany wants to rule (thus she wants people to bend the knee to her) and Jon doesn’t want it but was voted King in the North by the people (so he isn’t asking anyone to bend to him). They both want allies to support their respective causes.
exacly, and the funny thing is you can see she likes him/admires him just because she wants him to pledge his loyalthy doesn't make that any different ned was warden too and all this 'king of the north' stuff didn't happen until they had a ruler they didn't like, it's less about independence and more about liking who is on the throne tbh
I think she acted like a spoiled pompus baby, not like someone who has her wits about her. Her not believing in the White Walker is fine. But she said in Mireen that she wants to destroy the wheel. And yet when she come to Westeros she expect that all the old allegiances to be in place(like House Stark bending the knee to House Targaryen cause of their old alliance). Which is it, then?
When this episode came up, Twitter was screaming about the meeting of Jon and Dany nonstop. This was once of the most hyped TV episodes of all time, especially for a non-finale/pilot episode.
Cersei being worse than Ramsay has got to be the biggest joke. Ramsay was sadist who raped, tortured n killed for pleasure. Cersei, however twisted, did it out of vengeance. Cersei hasn't been cruel just for the heck of it. In her mind she was getting back at people who had wronged her. Joffrey was like Ramsay and hence his actions horrified even Cersei. Your blind hate for Cersei actually stops you from judging her actions objectively 😅
I would say that she has been cruel for the sake of it- like when she said give leftovers from wedding to the dogs and not the people (as requested by majorie). But agree she was not as bad as Ramsay.
I agree. In this series Ramsay was the worst. Joffrey was the way he was because of Cersei spoiling him and filling his head with her own megalomaniac ideologies
First bad thing Cersie did like sex with brother or Killed John Arryn and Robert are all because of The feel of betrail se feels because Robert loves a Dead women Instead of Her.
@@rebeccapinto9926 Actually that was Cersei being petty due to Margery rubbing her the wrong way. I wouldn't specify it as her being "cruel". Not in this world where cruelty is at a whole different level.
I kind of get the impression Cersei could rescue a puppy from drowning, and get criticized for it. Now I condemn Cersei for a lot, but she isn't "disgusting" in how she treats Ellaria. If there's any punishment in this show that is completely deserved, it's this one. Ellaria murdered Myrcella with that poison, and Tyene helped her - indeed, Tyene has used that poison on others herself. Cersei has her faults, but she's just as justified here as Arya was when she killed Walder Frey. If you cheer Arya (I did!) you should cheer Cersei. Cersei's actually a complex well-written character, both good and bad, not a one note baddy.
Agreed. From the books I get an even clearer picture of her motivations so I understand them even if I don’t agree with many of her actions. I also don’t get how some people defend her actions to the bitter end. She’s quite selfish and ruthless in her quest for the throne and power, but she was taught that lesson by Tywin.
what are you talking about. just because it was deserved doesn't mean it wasn't disgusting. violating someone who violated you is still...a violation?violating? What Arya did to Meryn Traunt was deranged af, loved every second of it.
@@BhBc8f8 That's how punishments should be even in real life. As far as I'm concerned torturing a child murderer for the rest of their lives is totally fine.
plus the sand snakes are such idiots they broke oberyn's rules to avenge him got his house royally ruined then got killed for killing a innocent child and their step relations by blood they had it coming
This is a sociopath level comment lol. Under no circumstance is it not disgusting to torture someone in front of their family. Someone “deserving” it doesn’t make it RIGHT
Yo I'm starting to think spartan doesn't understand what's going on here. I guess he just wants cersei to bow down to Dany with out a fit. This is the game of thrones brother. That woman killed her daughter, of course she gonna get her revenge if she has the chance to. Y'all literally cheered for Ramsey getting ate by dogs, but cersei can't get any revenge?
Olenna winning her own death is really the only thing I think they did perfect in this season. Except the part of her house being overthrown too easily, but the last scene with Jamie is perfection.
Actually, I think the scene with Cersei taking revenge for the death of her daughter is masterful. Lena Headey was immense, Cersei's emotions over the loss of the one child who was truly innocent and untainted made her pain palpable. Masterfully written, masterfully acted. I do feel it's a bit of a shame when people are missing all this, but ultimately everyone enjoys the show in their own way.
Dany's biggest mistake: Listening to Tyrion. She should have taken Kings Landing ASAP. She would be on the iron throne now preparing for the dead. Now she's lost all her allies by following the advice of a lannister. Finally, cersei's daughter was innocent. So was Brand. Jamie threw him from a tower, and everyone adores him.
Exactly. Tyrion is worst hand ever... Remember his first act was leaving Daario behind. Leave a great warrior who is completely devoted to Dany behind for basically no reason.. then immediately get most of Danys other allies killed.
You know what's funny, when you go back and look at all her choices and her advice from advisors, the thing that SHE wanted to do is always painted as the wrong move, and whenever she listened to her advisors, it always backfires and ends up getting her almost killed every time. Then when she goes and just does what she always should've done, it was the right move. And they keep doing it till the end lol...
He never is, he is king. Trying to claim the "lord of the realm" title "sEe He StIlL iS a LoRd". Just in this episode Davos corrected Dany saying KING JON was NOT a lord.
I love seeing him hate her with a passion, because she absolutely deserves the hate and SPOILER AHEAD . . . The ONLY reason why she made it so far was because of some really shitty writing decisions.
@@hopemikaelson9223lol.... Typical..." The only reason my favorites made it so far is because they deserve it" and "the only reason why the people I hate made it so far is because shitty writing".... How convenient..... Btw, the so called heroes have a greater plot armour than cersei ever did....
@@Rash23215guess you have a point, to the extent that Cersei didn't even need plot armor, since all she did was stand on that bloody balcony for an entire season. While doing basic math and relying on Tyrion's very convenient and entirely out of character stupidity. 👏
Dany has one problem, she is used to dealing with men like the slavers of Slavers Bay, or the violent Dothraki, she doesn’t have the political skills to deal with Westerosi
“Dany better treat him well.” Ooofff. I feel like they are going to hate Dany by the end of it all. I’m already sad. And just wanted to point out what Tyrion said. Dany wasn’t being “blind”. It takes more than a conversation to convince her of the threat. I get it, we all so Jon’s POV re: White Walkers. But Dany came to conquer.
Dany is the most powerful of all of them. Generally all the male audience hate it. Emilia honestly was amazing on this role. The most challenging role ever for a female character to be the most powerful in the room. She is so magical and powerful. Truly one of a kind. I don’t think haters realize just how powerful she is as female characters go. Sorry
What they don't get is that Dany doesn't know Jon at all. For her he's just a bastard from North, elected as a self proclaimed king like herself and is trying to convince her to leave behind her years of struggle to fight Westros and fight another war that's not hers to begin with hence sacrificing the army that she built for years, that too against an undead army which the concept itself is unbelievable to her followers themselves let alone herself.
Ngl Ellaria deserved what she got. Ellaria made the choice to kill one of the most innocent girl in Westeros. Just so she could get revenge for Oberyn. And now Ellaria has to face the consequences. I feel bad for Ellaria’s daughter but not one bit for her. Cersei was right for giving her the same treatment Myrcella (and Cersei as her mother) had to endure. You are just too blinded by your hatred for Cersei that you fail to see Ellaria’s wrongdoings in this. If it had been one of the Stark children coming to take their revenge and Cersei was in Ellaria’s position you would have cheered.
Agreed. But I don't feel bad for Ellaria's daughter, Tyene, because she knew Ellaria was poisoning Myrcella, and she helped her. Tyene uses that poison on others herself. Tyene is just as guilty as Ellaria is. Now if Tyene had been innocent, like Myrcella, I'd have condemned Cersei for killing an innocent. But she's not.
One of my biggest issues with this episode is the Tyrell’s at this point should have the biggest army but they were overpowered in there own castle within a day
these issues are pretty common at this point in the show, they just gave up on the slow pacing and political intrigue that made the first seasons interesting and decided that fast paced action was the only reason people watched it
Exactly, and then "fixing" that plothole by having Olenna ask how well they did, with Jaime responding something that shows the whole Tyrell army apparently was super shit and got their entire army and castle overrun in a lazy afternoon. Which is absolute nonsense, and such poor conceptual knowledge of history. That stuff is written by someone who doesn't understand how and why castles were built nor how medieval warfare works. There's zero chance they could have taken that Castle within 6 months. There's lots of that kind of "lack of writer knowledge" things popping up in the show, especially after the books ended. It pisses me off so much that "Hollywood" can't even hire medieval fantasy writers for a medieval fantasy show.
@@DutchFurnace yeah they just went there house sigil is a rose so they must be bad fighters even though the Tyrell’s are up there with the best in the books
Y’all’s hate for Cersei is blinding y’all to the fact that Ellaria deserved what she got. She betrayed her prince, Oberyn & murdered an innocent girl, a child. I can’t stand Cersei but I loved that moment of revenge for her. Love Danny & Jon, but I’m always confused why people expect Danny to just drop to her knees & believe Jon right away, and for these 2 to become fast friends & allies.
You can think someone deserved a punishment that they got while still thinking that the person who dealt out the punishment is a hypocritical piece of crap. I swear, kids on the internet are incapable of thinking in shades of grey.
25:37 That is such a messed up thing for Bran to say to Sansa. Why would he say that?! There's a right way and wrong way to raise issues. That was creepy.
dragons are a known creatures and part of the fauna of this world, and they have been gone for around 170 of years. as for the white walkers, they're legends from around 8000+ of years. it's easy to believe that an flying animal exists, but iced unded creatures coming to destroy everything? that doesn't sound realist. dany and Jon are both king and queen, but it was Jon who came down south begging for dany's armies and dragons without giving anything in return, maybe just so that she can believe him somehow. they don't know each other, we do, so it's easy to be hard on Dany when we know Jon's telling the truth. but imagine, you're a girl who fought so hard (survived abuse, r*pe, betrayal, loss) to get where she was, just to have a man you never met in your life come to you and say "hey, by the way, I am king, I cannot protect my own people so I came down here to ask help, and by the way, you're not getting anything in return".
This episode proves that Jaimie and Cersei are better at war tactics and playing the game than Tyrion. All Tyrion really did was defend King’s landing against Stannis, which he would have failed at without Tywin and Loras
People gave Tyrion way too much credit over the yrs bcuz he was funny and clever but Jaime & Cersei have always been in the true thick of it. Cersei told Tyrion this in s2 "you've never taken it seriously" which is true- he's spent his life drinking, whoring & spending his father's money. Jaime "didn't take it seriously" either according to Cersei but at least he was a true warrior who'd learnt many lessons over the yrs from his martial mistakes.
Cersei laid it out as simply as possible: "In the game of thrones, you win - or you die." The Tyrells and the Martells both decided to enter the game. It IS optional - the Tyrells didn't need to wed into The Lannister family and attempt to gain further influence, for example. Their opponents were the Lannisters - the top dogs. You go into a fight with the heavyweight champion, you best be ready to rumble. Result? They didn't win. Therefore, they died. Ollena herself said a lack of imagination blinded her to what Cersei might be capable of. Do you think Ollena WOULDN'T do what Cersei did in 6x10 had she found herself in similar circumstances and had the imagination for such a plot? Ollena would have made sure Margerey and her son were nowhere near the Sept and blown the rest of them to kingdom come.
Sansa is a SA survivor. It's not that she's scared. I think she just didn't want to relive one of the worst things that's ever happened to her, especially with her brother. Honestly, I always felt that that was weird for Bran to bring up but maybe the writers did it to show how much being the Raven has changed him. It's just not something a regular person would bring up in conversation, especially to the person it happened to.
Yall have got to stop bringing yall modern sensibilities into this show- what happened bet Sansa & Ramsey was not SA. Was it rough? Yes. But she went and married him willingly. This is how things worked in those times. What happened bet them is bet a husband & wife. Now what the mutineers did to Craster's wives was a diff story.
@@_justinblizzle after their wedding night Ramsey kept Sansa locked in a tower and assaulted her multiple times, even cutting her. Sansa makes it clear to Theon that she wants to leave and even tries to leave the situation. Cutting someone is not just rough. It's assault, married or not. We don't see her fighting back while locked in the tower because the show doesn't show it, but her and Theon's conversations insinuate that that is exactly what it was.
When this is finished, Spartan is gonna be as screwed over as Anakin at the end of Revenge of the Sith. I've never seen someone set themselves up for so big a fall.
@@seancarroll5803 Oh, I wasn't sure about that. I was speaking about Cersei's death. I guessed correctly while I was watching that Cersei wouldn't get a painful death.
Yes, so many characters lock mothers up with their rotting children and take so much pleasure in it that they immediately want to have sex after committing the execution. You’re so right! So enlightened! Cersei is a saint of the highest order, who only cares for true justice! ❤️
Luv Pudgey's hair! Also Luv Spartan (red face shot with steam out of the ears was fantastic) but haaaave to say.... Cersei once again shows how almost no one plays the game better than she does. It's a tough watch...but Ellaria got what she deserved. And oh yeah... Cersei is my favorite GOT character... alluring, complex, fascinating, ruthless and in her own way... beautiful.
Oh yea remember that Tywin told Cersei that Casterly Rock has produced not a single ounce of gold over the last few years (when Jeoffrey was still king). None of the Lannisters knew, and Tywin made sure to keep it that way, that was why he insisted on the Tyrell marriage by one way or another. And he only told Cersei because she refused to be wed then. That’s why it was a mistake from the start for Tyrion to tell Danny to attack Casterly Rock.
It seemed to me that Tyrion may have been swayed by the fact that he had such a good and clever plan to win the battle. You could see how much he enjoyed revealing it to his queen. Just because you know how to win a battle doesn't mean that's the battle you should be fighting (some wise man may have said that 🙂 ).
The Unsullied defending Highgarden would be the strategically better choice.And the dragons burning Euron´s fleet before it gets equipped with scorpions.
26:12 This is the most BS thing Bran could say. Sansa is right. First SHE is the ruler of Winterfell before Jon, and with Bran's arrival, he comes before her. SPOILERS FOR THE SHOW: Why would Bran say he can never be Lord of anything and then take over the Iron Throne? The only reason I can assume the show never followed the logic of Sansa ruling Winterfell in S6 & S7, is because they planned to maker rule it later, so they just made her accept he position which doesn't make sense.
I think one of the interesting things about the later seasons is that like half the dialog is talking about events that occurred, on screen, in previous seasons. Like they had no clue what to do and so they just used book material as script padding. Half the scenes are just take two characters that have never interacted before and have them speak about the past. In this episode it's basically the entirety of Jon/Dany and Cersei/Ellaria scenes.
The way I read the Theon incident was that his PTSD flared up, and he suddenly became aware of the fact that he could be captured and tortured again, not that he was scared of dying. He's still recovering from years of abuse and starvation and probably didnt think he was strong enough to fight Euron.
Ellaria had no right to even get mad about Oberyn's death (considering he CHOSE to enter the duel), let alone KILL AN INNOCENT GIRL for it. Seriously, it's pretty disappointing that you can't see it.
Cercei feels the way we do when Arya killed the Freys. She feels like she got revenge for her daughter. I actually think that revenge was badass in a sense, I hate Cercei getting what she wants but that was deserved even though it was sick. They killed Marcella ruthlessly
Yea. Good with her words. But failure in ruling. Where was Tyrell's army? The one they had was a joke. When you are one of the richest houses, you should assume that others one day will turn on you.
I was afraid we weren't going to get a Cersi "Yuck" from Spartan. At least we got a little one during their discussion.😂 Bran: "I can't be lord of Winterfell. I can't be lord of anything. I'm the three eyed Raven" Me: 🤨 🙄 🤬
Cersei was the cause for her children's deaths, in some ways, but not directly and not always (Myrcella's, for example, wasn't) and she would've never cause them any harm by choice. The only time we see her try that is when Stannis is attacking King's Landing and she takes Tommen to the Iron Throne, thinking they've lost, and almost poisons Tommen and herself to avoid what could've happened if they took the city. But Stannis... Stannis looked Shereen in the eyes while at his command she was burned alive. Literally there is no comparison whatsoever.
Olenna knew that she would die in any way. She was trying to put doubts in Jaime against Cersei. Notice how careful and strong words she use against Cersei. "shes a monster, you know that", "she is a disease, and i regret my role in spreed it". Plus Olena was also trying to push Jaime from Cersei, as she knew, Jaime was a good commander. Again, notice how, Olenna said "she will be the ruin of you", making a attempt to reasable with him. Olenna even in the end, was playing. Showing that the Roses may have been cut down, but they still have one last thorn to prick. Also, she keept her promise to littlefinger "if my house fall, i have nothing to hide". Obvious Olenna used this, to torture Cersei. Making sure, that Cersei knew it was Cersei, herself who lead house Lannisters to a path of self destruction... Theres also this discussion which side won or lost. But in the end, both House Tyrell and Lannister lost, and won. Tyrells won most of the battles, while the lannisters won the war. But both lost their future. Cersei is old to have children. Jaime is a commander of kingsguard. Tyrion is a traitor.
13:37 We only understand Jon's argument because we've seen his journey. If we hadn't, it would be much harder to be sold on it. I understand where Dany is coming. Personally, I would argue that Dany hass been through more emotional hardship than Jon. From birth, she had zero security blanket. Her rise to power is far more impressive than Jon's.
jon didn't have a seat at the table dany didn't even get let in and had to beg for food (while also being hunted down and potentially assassinated) jon struggled a lot but it will never be more than dany (and don't get me wrong, they are my two favorite characters but dany had it worse) i know the show doesn't go much into the life dany had before but it wasn't great
Ellaria I don't feel sorry for because she did murder Ceresi's daughter, plain and simple. She also murdered her lover's brother, so she kinda had it coming. The nun tortured Ceresi, that was never a good idea.
It never ceases to piss me off how easy they take down the Tyrells here. They’re the wealthiest house next to the Lannisters and are fighting from a fortified position. There’s no way that would take any less than months without modern siege technology or dragons.
You had me until you tried to justify Stannis BURNING HIS ONLY DAUGHTER ALIVE as not as bad as Cersei. There is a middle ground here: they’re both terrible, but don’t let your Cersei hate bling you to other characters who have made just as terrible decisions. To be fair, if I were a father and someone murdered my child, I’m fairly sure my rage may know no boundary…
I've been watching you guys since ep01 of season 1. But I have to be honest, I'm still here because of the lady reactor. Though sometimes it's interesting to hear the guy's different perspectives, most of the time it's actually quite irritating. Being sided with Jon, the High Sparrow and loathing against Cersei a bit too much would hinder critical thinking.
Spartan is too comsummed by the hate of Cersei at this point. lol He sided with the High Sparrow because of it, he abandonned Jaime as well cause Jaime is with Cersei. The ending will be interesting to see because of that. lol
Great reaction! Olena is truly one of the best characters. And Diana Rigg was brilliant playing the role. This episode is where you really start to notice the shift from character-based motivations to plot-driven motivations. Look at a map of Westeros... Winterfell is far inland, the closest port for boats is White Harbour. Then they have to sail all the way to Dragonstone, which is FAR. Yet Jon's trip is instant. Remember, in season one, how long it took Rob's army to march south?
I dont understand the hate cersei gets but i really dont understand people getting mad at cersei for getting revenge when thats literally what everyone on this show is doing.also how can you say you cant believe shes so personal with killing people who killed her family that's the very definition of personal
I mean I understand why people hate Cersei. But the Lannisters as a whole are some of the best characters on television. Even Jeoffrey. So I don't really hate them at all.
@@izzyjoshuadavis cersei is no worse than most of the rest of these characters.mostly she defends herself from attacks.however a character like dany burns cities and kill innocents and people are on her side?
@@baronhomer1 Cersei kind of is worst but I still don't hate her. She is very selfish. She is very paranoid and petty for no reason sometimes. Like she really viewed the Tyrells as a threat when they were not really a huge threat to her at all. She focuses too much on people like Margaery instead of focusing of the bigger picture. She operates out of fear and anger so she definitely has flaws. That being said I do like her.
I want to know what's wrong with you. Whoever kills innocent children seems okay to you, if Cercei takes revenge for it, you condemn it. It would be so bad. What the series shows particularly well is how morally flexible viewers are. As it fits. If John Snow were in the same situation, you would celebrate it. Orlena and the Sand Snakes got what they deserved. And even after her death, Orlena directly has a great influence on the finale of the series with her words to Dany.
@@minerva566 Of course, she deserves it just as much as almost everyone else in this world. Apart from that, she herself said that she did unspeakable things. She also played Sansa. She used Sansa for information and abandoned her, knowing that she would be held partly responsible for Joffrey's death. She wouldn't have cared about her death either. And after the death of her niece, she wants to see the whole of Kings Landing burn, regardless of whether innocent people die. That's why she tells Dany not to listen to her advisors and act like a dragon.
26:08 "she got scared I think" Yeah I think I'd be properly uncomfortable if my long lost little brother retold the night of my violent rape and how beautiful I was. Surprised no one's seeing how absolutely fucked this is
I think we consider Cersei more evil than Stannis just because she has had a bigger screen time throughout the seasons... Stannis was ready to kill everyone because he was pompous enough to think that he is the prince who was promised, yes Melissandre had a role in it but still he believed in her because he was hungry for power, he is the classic example of middle child syndrome...He killed his wife, he killed his brother, he killed his daughter, he brought down the entire house along with him, he was also ready to sacrifice Gendry, literally the last true son of his brother...see this is why people sometimes question you and tell you that you are harder on female characters than male characters 🤷🏻👀
35:45 Stannis has definitely burned enemies, but yes it's not out of sadism. I have personally never seen the take that Stannis is worse than Cersei. I'm properly gobsmacked!
I agree about everything you're saying about Cercei, but I don't agree she went too hard on the Dorn women. I mean, you said that about Theon, too...if that was your kid they killed would you feel like any punishment was harsh enough? I guess if you don't have kids maybe you can't understand that, but as a father myself no amount of punishment makes up for you murdering my child.
One thing I haven't seen is a breakdown of Varys' attitude toward Melisandre. The thing is, Varys hates, hates, hates magic. He discusses it with Tyrion when describing his castration as he takes revenge on the sorcerer who did it to him (the man in the crate during that scene in season two or three). He hates and fears the red priests and everything they're about. That's why he came for Melisandre on the cliff and had a go at her. He doesn't want her or her kind anywhere near Westeros. We never see a lot of fear or insecurity around Varys, but magic-users get to him in a way politics never do.
He claims to hate magic yet sides w Daenerys; the single most magical entity in the series 🙄 even Stannis, of all people, capitulated that dragons are magical creatures and that if they were good enough for Aegon to use in war, then magic was free game.
Cersei IS sick and twisted which is why I think what Stannis did to his daughter is worse than what she did to her kids. He’s better than that and knew better than that and still murdered his baby girl in the most excruciatingly painful way possible. We know cersei is pure garbage and yet even still she would never purposely put her kids through that much physical pain.
You cannot underrate how a formidable stategist Jaime has become at this point in the game. With what he did at Riverrun- take the castle without loss of lives. And here catching the Tyrells with their pants down by sacrificing Casterly Rock. Then next episode Jaime is back in battle.
what Olenna advised is dictated by Olenna only wish for vengeance, she advised to instill fear and "be a dragon", which is fine for conquest, bad for becoming a ruler (too much time passed since other Targ did that, people are not ready for another dragon to rule with fear over them)
12:19 People have had proof of dragons' existence for centuries. Nobody doubts that. But White Walkers, even during Rhaenyra's time, would be a very hard thing for anyone to believe in, and people saw dragons every day back then.
The Tyrells actually had by far the largest army in Westeros, and the Lannisters relied on their alliance with them to support their rule - the Lannister army was no match for the Tyrells. But hey, D&D gotta wrap this sh*t up fast, they have a Star Wars movie to make...
@@williamerazo3921 They never got to make their Star Wars movie. After the fiasco that was GoT's final season, Disney understandably lost all confidence in D&D so they dropped them. Karma?
to be fair I totally understand Danny. Imagine going thru everything she did to be so close to having what youve always wanted and out of nowhere theres a dude who was claimed king of one of the kingdoms by his people... shes nicer than I am, Id probably burn john alive so everything was cleanly done lmao-
I think there was a deleted line at the very end where Jamie says to Olenna that Joffrey died in the arms of someone who loved him while Olenna would die here alone because everyone she ever loved was already dead, they cut it so that Olenna got the final word.
Cersei taking revenge on ellaria sand for the unconscionable murder of an innocent little girl was one of the rare times I cheered for her. Myrcella did nothing to deserve the painful poison death she got. Ellaria deserves every piece of that punishment.
@@kevinscottbailey8335 i suppose. I was going off of book knowledge, i recently finished the whole series. And he was a straight up minor in the books. Don't get me wrong, i had the brightest smile on my face when he died. I don't slander Olenna for it at all.
![The Queen's Justice! (GOT 7x3) GAME OF THRONES 7x3 [REACTION] First Time Watching!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AcPeCEZUbKU/mqdefault.jpg)
Want to watch EARLY or access the UNCUT reaction? Join us on Patreon for Early access to episodes 7x4, 7x5 & 7x6 & 7x7 & 8x1 (EDITED & UNCUT) + 8x2 & 8x3 (UNCUT) + Histories & Lore S7 www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
I feel like it’s just right for you two to dress as Jon and Dany for Halloween. 😊
I can’t help it, I’ve loved every major player this season, including Cersei. Elaria deserved every second of her punishment. Don’t forget, her daughter is a stone cold killer, as is Elaria. Cersei’s daughter was one of the few completely innocent people in the show. She deserved to be avenged. And frankly that nun was a monster too, completely abusing her power. She was a petty tyrant, she played her own game and she lost. She could have just treated Cersei humanely and she wouldn’t have received the fate she got, being raped to death over days, weeks or months by the mountain. I think it’s something about Lena Heady’s performance. Spartan clearly doesn’t agree, but I think she gives Cersei a certain sense of humanity and honor that Cersei in the books completely lacked. Hmmmm. It sounds like Spartan might LOVE season 8.
Thanks for the video Pudgey and TATUM!! 🤣
Guys, stop watching after 8x3 😅
How did yall feel about seeing the lannister crib
unironically, put your hate for Cersei aside for a second, Ellaria sand deserved her fate, Marcella was an innocent child, who died on behalf of revenge for a grown man who chose to die fighting in fair combat for his revenge, i don't have pity for her. Oberyn would have been ashamed of her
especially after the killing of doran and trystane???? like they’re being so unserious
Well she hasn't kill Myrcella or her cousin. Her mothers and her halfsisters did all this
_"...put your hate for Cersei aside for a second"_ Yeah seriously, who really thinks - for a second - that that's gonna happen? The Cersei Hate is baked in now. I'm really looking forward to seeing their reaction when, you know...
@@FrankeNamensKarim She helped kill Myrcella, she was there and handed her mother the cloth to wipe her nose. She knew exactly what was going on. Tyene is the one who uses that poison - she gave Bronn the antidote.
@@FrankeNamensKarimEllaria had a whole conversation with her daughters asking if they were in on her plans (killing Myrcella, the price and his heir). They all agreed. So they were all complicit. Cersei doesn't know that, of course. For her it's just an eye for an eye. But as viewers we know and so Tyene dying isn't exactly an innocent being killed.
People get in knots about how Dany treats Jon, but she literally has no idea who the guy is, nor what he does or stands for. We as the audience know that, she does not. All she knows he is a son of a man that helped bring down her family and is part of the reason she grew up without anything. Ofc she is a bit brusque and demanding, she is the new player in the game and she needs to project power and respect. She wants to restore her dynasty in all of the Seven Kingdoms. But she comes around pretty soon, she just gives him a bit of political rough talking in the beginning, but gets to admire his values pretty much immediately. It would be so unrealistic if these two characters who went through all of what they did during 6 seasons, just meet and become allies and friends as soon as they see each other.
It's also not at all out of character for her to act this way.
All that can be said for Jon and he doesn't talk down to her the way she does to him.
@@kitlow2970 He came to her throne room, in her ancestral seat, to ask for her help. He is in no position to talk down to anyone. Even if he is a kind of guy who would not.
@@kitlow2970 No, but he does expect her to just shut up, believe everything he says without question, and run to the North, dropping EVERYTHING she has worked for ever since she was sold to the Dothraki. All this, WITHOUT proof. He doesn't need to talk down to her. It's already insulting as it is.
also, this whole 'independent north' is only due to not liking the current ruler
ned was warden and was fine so i don't get how everyone cares so much about that either
anyway, it's obvious dany likes jon even if she is telling him to bend the knee to her, so she can ensure his loyalty
she wouldn't want loyalty from someone she doesn't like or can't trust
Don't really get the sympathy for Ellaria, she murdered an innocent in Myrcella and murdered her lover's brother while also going directly against what Oberyn believes "we don't murder children in Dorne".
She was usurper a child killer and betrayed the wishes of oberyn
Exactly! Myrcella was innocent and Ellaria murdered her for absolutely no reason other than that she wanted to. She didn't achieve justice. Heck, she didn't even get proper revenge - Tywin was already dead and Cersei had nothing to do with Oberyn's death or his sister's death.
Lmao. That's how my reaction was too. I was like Ellaria is not someone I feel sympathy for at all. She did lots of dumb things. Also, The Sand Snakes were kind of a let down in general.
I agree with you. Arya gets revenge, she gets cheered. Cersei gets an entirely justified and appropriate revenge, and she gets condemned for it.
@@izzyjoshuadavis sarella is the best sand snake and they didn't even put her in the show
The fact is that Dany doesn't know him, doesn't know she can trust him, she's already fighting a war with Cersei and then this man she doesn't know and so far is not her allie is asking her to fight another war ? Dany has a lot to lose too. Their behavior (Jon and Danny) is fair from both perspectives
yea like you want my army, my dragons and potentially my life but you won’t bend the knee? make it make sense 😭
Dany not believing in the White Walkers is fine. But in Mireen she said she wanted to "Destroy the Wheel" and in one of her first meeting in Westeros, she wants the old allegiances to return(wanting a Stark to bend the knee cause House Stark once bent the knee to House Targaryen). I thought she wanted to break the old rules?
@@johnnyskinwalker4095it's more so, she can't break then wheel without power. She needs to be in power to topple it. So she needs allegiances with other houses
Actually, Dany should know who Jon Snow is, he's the son of the honorable to a fault -Ned Stark. Dany being uninformed about Ned always bothered me. No one bothered to tell her that he threw his badge of office in the King's face. The last Hand to do that was burned alive for his insolence...by her father. Varys is 'the Spider' in name only now, Tyrion is intelligent enough to know Jon is telling the truth, that's the true reason he went to Castle Black now looking back, to bond with Jon and Jeor, before leaving he promised Jeor to help them with the crown and he does send men from the dungeon when he's Hand...
The significance of Tyrion visiting the Wall; At first, Tyrion writes off the Wall's significance, but seeing it in person changes his opinion. Then, later understanding the true gravity of the Wall, Tyrion accepts that it is indeed important.. The Wall officially piques Tyrion's interest, as curiosity often drives him.
In the first book Tyrion is playing a logic game with Jon. Obviously the Wall has unnatural properties, and Jon is typical Jon, missing the point because he's brooding;
“It’s nothing special,” Jon said. He wanted to ride with Benjen Stark on his rangings, deep into the mysteries of the haunted forest, wanted to fight Mance Rayder’s wildlings and ward the realm against the Others, but it was better not to speak of the things you wanted. “The rangers say it’s just woods and mountains and frozen lakes, with lots of snow and ice.” *“And the grumkins and the snarks,”* Tyrion said. “Let us not forget them, Lord Snow, or else what’s that big thing for?” (AGOT, Jon III)
So Tyrion understands the significance of the Wall, and is in a unique position to properly advise Daenerys about Jon and on what the Wall falling means to her plans.
Could be mixing up show and book, but, when the small council receives the plea from the nights watch to help with white walkers, doesn't everyone laugh it off except for Tyrion who says "Mormont wouldn't lie"?
Why is Tyrion and Dany not asking the honorable Jon Snow about his desertion, surely this is something that Tyrion will want more info on, and I thought Mel was there to tell Dany about the resurrection and also proving the dead can really come back to life, but she is just wasted...
@@latraeosborne3287 The main problem is that Westeros is very different from Essos. It's more about politics and negotiations and so forth, not about conquest. The Targaryen House has been completely whiped out from the country. So her acting so forceful and thinking people will bend the knee to the Targaryens make no sense. Her fall ultimately came because of that, she did not understand Westeros.
RIP to Diana Rigg, the woman who portrayed Olenna.
She passed 3 years after this episode aired. A legend ☝️❤
That's Dame Diana Rigg. She was knighted
Lol Cersei's revenge against Ellaria is one of my favourite scenes honestly. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes fully deserved it, they murdered an innocent girl and killed Oberyn's own brother and nephew, he would have killed Ellaria himself for that
Big facts
Spartan and pudgey blame cersei for killing her own kids tho
@82joon Yeah she is responsible for Tommen (albeit indirectly). Myrcella was sent to Dorne by Tyrion which Cersei opposed, so not sure how she can be blamed for that, she didn't have anything to do with Elia's death and Oberyn willingly entered a trial by combat so that's fully on Ellaria and the Sand Snakes for taking a stupid "revenge". Don't know how anyone could believe she was responsible for Joffrey's death in any sense.
But yeah I definitely think they are a bit blinded by hatred for Cersei, she's nowhere near as bad as Joffrey or Ramsay or even the Mountain (pre-zombification). They did like Tywin though, who was equally ruthless (but smarter), he ordered the Red Wedding, ordered a gang rape on Tyrion's first wife, ordered Tyrion's death and treated him (well all his kids) awfully, ordered the Sack of King's Landing and the deaths of Elia and the children, massacred the Reynes of Castamere, ordered the Mountain to sack the Riverlands and murder and rape innocent smallfolk... if Cersei did any of that you can imagine the response
@@beclou9832 Well said. I think Pudgey goes along with Spartan, unfortunately. His eclipse-sized blind spot is spoiling this. The irony is, I think it'll make the ending all the more bitter for him.
@@beclou9832Cersei was responsible for Joffrey's death by not being able to raise him better or even control him... Blaming Tyrion blindly caused the death of Obeyrin as well. Cersei only makes enemies and doesn't think beyond her nose, her attitude and actions led to the death of her children, indirectly
Y’all would think Dany would just listen to Jon after one conversation? She has no idea what the white walkers even are
This. Imagine you return to claim a throne, and some guy who already claims a part of your kingdom tells you he wants your help killing a bunch of walking dead people, and some ice dudes. You'd either think it was a scam to lure you to your death, or the guy was totally nuts. Don't blame Jon for asking, but don't blame Dany for not believing it either.
@@greenstranger7721 Right. To be honest, even if someone I knew pretty well asked me to help them murder an army of icy zombies, I'd be questioning their sanity.
Tywin should've won and be king.
She has magical dragons & was unburnt. She wants everyone to believe she wasn't burnt in a pyre but she won't believe what obviously is a trust worthy person?
@@orphanedhanyouagain his only “obviously a trustworthy person” to us the viewers because we have seen his story and character development. She just met him she has no idea if she can trust him or not her closest advisor, Jorah even betrayed her at some point so it would have been unrealistic for her to trust him right away.
That scene with Cersei and Ellaria, I didn’t see it as Cersei’s justice, but rather Myrcella’s. She was an innocent little girl who was murdered and became a pawn in a game between her mother and a woman who wanted revenge even though Oberyn knew the risks of doing the Trial by Combat. Oberyn technically wasn’t “murdered”, although it breaks my heart that he died, because he knew what he was getting into. Ellaria murdering Myrcella in return was evil, and in a way, she got her own back by doing that to her. I wouldn’t say she deserved it, but for Myrcella’s sake, she needed to realise that her actions only reflected Cersei’s, and she was almost just as bad because she knew what Oberyn stood for - they don’t hurt little girls in Dorne, and Oberyn would be so disappointed and disgusted with what his lover had done by doing that and murdering his brother and nephew.
The acting in the scene is so on point too. The way that Cersei really flexes it, you can tell she's planned her speech to remind Ellaria what she did, remind her that Oberyn could have won if not for taunting the Mountain and then make the final blow. But even with her planned speech her voice still cracks when she asks "why did you do that". Ellaria is gagged but still showed a huge range of emotions, you see her hate for Cersei, her smirk when Cersei mentions Myrcella (no remorse even now) then the terror when she realises what is happening, even Tyene being too terrified to talk and managing just one last cry for her mother when she realises what Cersei has done, it's all so perfect
@@beclou9832 Lena Headey killed it as always
@@BhBc8f8She did, Lena actually made me feel sorry for Cerci about her grief for Marcylla (sp?).
Yes, because sweet Myrcella would definitely want a woman to be stuck with her daughter’s rotting corpse. That makes sense.
@@SnailHatan we will never know because that woman killed her for no real reason
26:05 Her brother brought up one of the most traumatic days of her life. Sansas reaction to the recounting of her wedding night had nothing to do with what Littlefinger said, it was just a trauma response.
literally idk how they didnt understand that imagine ur brother you havent seen in years randomly bringing up something really traumatic happening to you in such a monotone weirdo way and calling u beautiful that night, i'd be creeped out and having to rethink about that time would make anyone upset
Run like hell seems an appropriate response, he just casually confirmed he witnessed your rape and torture.
For real, I have no sadnest about Ellaria's fate...
She killed Mircella (who was completely innocent of the crimes perpetrated by her parents and her grandfather), to avenge the death of her lover.
Except that Oberyn was himself a volunteer for this duel, and that he himself caused his death by allowing himself to be distracted (In particular by Ellaria by the way...).
Subsequently, she attempted to assassinate Mircella for the first time using her daughter (as well as Oberyn's other daughters), Ellaria's revenge therefore being greater than her desire to protect her child...
Her first assassination attempt failed, and her lover's brother forgave her and gave her a second chance which she used to kill Mircella and assassinate Doran.
I think that if Oberyn was still alive, he would never have forgiven Ellaria for the murder of his brother (whom he loved) and his children.
Also, Ellaria's fate is... Deserved.
And I could pity her daughter Tyerne, because she wasn't "innocent" either. She was an accomplice in Mircella's assassination, and was not a fragile young girl but a devious warrior.
Also finally, the punishment seems to me at the height of the cruelty which they showed, in the series in any case.
In the books, the plot has NOTHING TO SEE and is totally different from the beginning, the characters are all very different. In the books, Ellaria is a totally minor character who will on the contrary seek to prevent the asps of the sands from seeking revenge. Also, none of the Dorne characters (apart from Oberyn) really match what GRR Martin wrote. None.
💯
I prefer book Ellaria over this one 🤧
The reality is that Dorne plot is so good in the books that all in the show is fanfiction from D&D, the same about all that happens in Casterly Rock and the Tyrells
i honestly dont see where the sympathy for show ellaria comes from lmao, especially since oberyn died in a fight HE chose to take part in. I cant believe Cersei still gets blamed for that lmao
Oh the show also did Casterly Rock so dirty i forgot, but man the transition to the lannister army with the music goes so well, i hope we get to hear it in hotd for tyland as well!
🤡 psycho
I hear Cersei steps on the cracks on the sidewalk, and squeezes the toothpaste tube from the wrong end. THAT MONSTER.
How dare she???
In that idiot Spartans voice - "She's disgusting.... Yuck...."
she takes more than one free sample as well .. truly a sick woman
She puts pineapple on pizza
She leaves the toilet seat up!
Disgusting
People whose favorite is Jon always forget that Daenerys has no idea who he is. It is we, as spectators, who see what kind of person he is, it is we who saw the White Walkers with him. For Daenerys, he is the son of a man who was the best friend of the man who brought down her family. She DOESN'T KNOW him. From her point of view, he may turn out to be a bad person and harm her. And it’s generally ridiculous to think about the White Walkers, if you imagine the situation in which Jon came to Daenerys. So they are BOTH right in their own way.
Their scene was a good one. They pointed out their perspectives to each other and both showed respect. Dany did nothing here that she didn’t do in Essos. She told everyone to bend the knee to her. In Essos viewers cheered her but when she said it to Jon, some bashed her for keeping in character.
@bereasonable8018 it's almost like Dany is a monarch and people are supposed to bend the knee, aegon asked the same ,so did stannis and so did stannis,it's the norm
@@samtinashemaraya2322 agreed. I guess the difference is that Dany wants to rule (thus she wants people to bend the knee to her) and Jon doesn’t want it but was voted King in the North by the people (so he isn’t asking anyone to bend to him). They both want allies to support their respective causes.
exacly, and the funny thing is you can see she likes him/admires him
just because she wants him to pledge his loyalthy doesn't make that any different
ned was warden too and all this 'king of the north' stuff didn't happen until they had a ruler they didn't like, it's less about independence and more about liking who is on the throne tbh
I think she acted like a spoiled pompus baby, not like someone who has her wits about her. Her not believing in the White Walker is fine. But she said in Mireen that she wants to destroy the wheel. And yet when she come to Westeros she expect that all the old allegiances to be in place(like House Stark bending the knee to House Targaryen cause of their old alliance). Which is it, then?
When this episode came up, Twitter was screaming about the meeting of Jon and Dany nonstop. This was once of the most hyped TV episodes of all time, especially for a non-finale/pilot episode.
I hate Cersei, but her revenge on Ellaria was well-earned and well-executed 😂
Cersei being worse than Ramsay has got to be the biggest joke. Ramsay was sadist who raped, tortured n killed for pleasure.
Cersei, however twisted, did it out of vengeance. Cersei hasn't been cruel just for the heck of it. In her mind she was getting back at people who had wronged her. Joffrey was like Ramsay and hence his actions horrified even Cersei.
Your blind hate for Cersei actually stops you from judging her actions objectively 😅
I would say that she has been cruel for the sake of it- like when she said give leftovers from wedding to the dogs and not the people (as requested by majorie). But agree she was not as bad as Ramsay.
@@rebeccapinto9926nope, she did it because of Margery
I agree. In this series Ramsay was the worst. Joffrey was the way he was because of Cersei spoiling him and filling his head with her own megalomaniac ideologies
First bad thing Cersie did like sex with brother or Killed John Arryn and Robert are all because of The feel of betrail se feels because Robert loves a Dead women Instead of Her.
@@rebeccapinto9926 Actually that was Cersei being petty due to Margery rubbing her the wrong way. I wouldn't specify it as her being "cruel". Not in this world where cruelty is at a whole different level.
I kind of get the impression Cersei could rescue a puppy from drowning, and get criticized for it. Now I condemn Cersei for a lot, but she isn't "disgusting" in how she treats Ellaria. If there's any punishment in this show that is completely deserved, it's this one. Ellaria murdered Myrcella with that poison, and Tyene helped her - indeed, Tyene has used that poison on others herself. Cersei has her faults, but she's just as justified here as Arya was when she killed Walder Frey. If you cheer Arya (I did!) you should cheer Cersei. Cersei's actually a complex well-written character, both good and bad, not a one note baddy.
Agreed. From the books I get an even clearer picture of her motivations so I understand them even if I don’t agree with many of her actions. I also don’t get how some people defend her actions to the bitter end. She’s quite selfish and ruthless in her quest for the throne and power, but she was taught that lesson by Tywin.
what are you talking about. just because it was deserved doesn't mean it wasn't disgusting. violating someone who violated you is still...a violation?violating? What Arya did to Meryn Traunt was deranged af, loved every second of it.
@@BhBc8f8 That's how punishments should be even in real life. As far as I'm concerned torturing a child murderer for the rest of their lives is totally fine.
plus the sand snakes are such idiots they broke oberyn's rules to avenge him got his house royally ruined then got killed for killing a innocent child and their step relations by blood they had it coming
This is a sociopath level comment lol. Under no circumstance is it not disgusting to torture someone in front of their family. Someone “deserving” it doesn’t make it RIGHT
Book Euron: *Basically a demon*
Show Euron: A fInGeR in tHe BuM?
“Is that how you talk when someone cuts off your dddIcKkkk?” 😂
Yo I'm starting to think spartan doesn't understand what's going on here. I guess he just wants cersei to bow down to Dany with out a fit. This is the game of thrones brother. That woman killed her daughter, of course she gonna get her revenge if she has the chance to. Y'all literally cheered for Ramsey getting ate by dogs, but cersei can't get any revenge?
Olenna winning her own death is really the only thing I think they did perfect in this season. Except the part of her house being overthrown too easily, but the last scene with Jamie is perfection.
Actually, I think the scene with Cersei taking revenge for the death of her daughter is masterful. Lena Headey was immense, Cersei's emotions over the loss of the one child who was truly innocent and untainted made her pain palpable. Masterfully written, masterfully acted. I do feel it's a bit of a shame when people are missing all this, but ultimately everyone enjoys the show in their own way.
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 You're right. I think that was well done too actually!
Dany's biggest mistake: Listening to Tyrion. She should have taken Kings Landing ASAP. She would be on the iron throne now preparing for the dead. Now she's lost all her allies by following the advice of a lannister. Finally, cersei's daughter was innocent. So was Brand. Jamie threw him from a tower, and everyone adores him.
Theon as well. Dude butchered two children. But everyone loves him. The hound too!
Exactly! The worst thing Dany did was trust Tyrion.
Exactly. Tyrion is worst hand ever...
Remember his first act was leaving Daario behind. Leave a great warrior who is completely devoted to Dany behind for basically no reason.. then immediately get most of Danys other allies killed.
You know what's funny, when you go back and look at all her choices and her advice from advisors, the thing that SHE wanted to do is always painted as the wrong move, and whenever she listened to her advisors, it always backfires and ends up getting her almost killed every time. Then when she goes and just does what she always should've done, it was the right move. And they keep doing it till the end lol...
@@zachphoenix4522 And then she did what she REALLY wanted to do lol
"I can never be lord of Winterfell, I can never be lord of anything" lmao xD
“I don’t really want anymore”
"why so you think i came all this way" 😂
But who has a better story then bran
OK, I am dead. This comment thread needs to move to the top.
Baelish set the scene in his comment to Sansa. Cut to FKA Bran.
He never is, he is king. Trying to claim the "lord of the realm" title "sEe He StIlL iS a LoRd". Just in this episode Davos corrected Dany saying KING JON was NOT a lord.
Cersei's revenge on Ellaria made me incredibly happy when I first saw it.
I love seeing spartan underestimate cercei ,she just keep proving him wrong.
I lowkey love it too. lmao.
like he doesnt seem to understand cersei's psychology. that everything she's doing is right in her eyes, and that's why she's doing it.
I love seeing him hate her with a passion, because she absolutely deserves the hate and SPOILER AHEAD
.
.
.
The ONLY reason why she made it so far was because of some really shitty writing decisions.
@@hopemikaelson9223lol.... Typical..." The only reason my favorites made it so far is because they deserve it" and "the only reason why the people I hate made it so far is because shitty writing".... How convenient..... Btw, the so called heroes have a greater plot armour than cersei ever did....
@@Rash23215guess you have a point, to the extent that Cersei didn't even need plot armor, since all she did was stand on that bloody balcony for an entire season. While doing basic math and relying on Tyrion's very convenient and entirely out of character stupidity. 👏
Dany has one problem, she is used to dealing with men like the slavers of Slavers Bay, or the violent Dothraki, she doesn’t have the political skills to deal with Westerosi
Slavers Bay makes ever other region and people in their fictional world look good by comparison
@@t.c.thompson2359like for real
Neither does Tyrion after he was lobotomised by the writing.
That's where varys and Tyrion wouldve come into play buuuut dumb and dumber happened.
And her hand sucks at anything to do with warfare
“Dany better treat him well.” Ooofff. I feel like they are going to hate Dany by the end of it all. I’m already sad. And just wanted to point out what Tyrion said. Dany wasn’t being “blind”. It takes more than a conversation to convince her of the threat. I get it, we all so Jon’s POV re: White Walkers. But Dany came to conquer.
Dany is the most powerful of all of them. Generally all the male audience hate it. Emilia honestly was amazing on this role. The most challenging role ever for a female character to be the most powerful in the room. She is so magical and powerful. Truly one of a kind. I don’t think haters realize just how powerful she is as female characters go. Sorry
What they don't get is that Dany doesn't know Jon at all. For her he's just a bastard from North, elected as a self proclaimed king like herself and is trying to convince her to leave behind her years of struggle to fight Westros and fight another war that's not hers to begin with hence sacrificing the army that she built for years, that too against an undead army which the concept itself is unbelievable to her followers themselves let alone herself.
Sorry not sorry to all the haters, but there is no one who took revenge better than Cersei in this moment 👏🏻
Impulsive. That's what this was.
@@jasmineg_63 impulsive? 😂 she had a well thought out plan
Ngl Ellaria deserved what she got. Ellaria made the choice to kill one of the most innocent girl in Westeros. Just so she could get revenge for Oberyn. And now Ellaria has to face the consequences. I feel bad for Ellaria’s daughter but not one bit for her. Cersei was right for giving her the same treatment Myrcella (and Cersei as her mother) had to endure.
You are just too blinded by your hatred for Cersei that you fail to see Ellaria’s wrongdoings in this. If it had been one of the Stark children coming to take their revenge and Cersei was in Ellaria’s position you would have cheered.
Agreed. But I don't feel bad for Ellaria's daughter, Tyene, because she knew Ellaria was poisoning Myrcella, and she helped her. Tyene uses that poison on others herself. Tyene is just as guilty as Ellaria is. Now if Tyene had been innocent, like Myrcella, I'd have condemned Cersei for killing an innocent. But she's not.
100% agreed 👏 👏 👏
Elariaa daughter wasn't innocent tho so I didn't feel bad for her either. They knew too!
@@Silver_Owlwell, she helped her mother, that's all
Two wrongs don't make a right. Ellaria deserved what she got. That doesn't mean that Cersei was right.
One of my biggest issues with this episode is the Tyrell’s at this point should have the biggest army but they were overpowered in there own castle within a day
Made up by their allies mostly
Yeah, they just needed to reduce the cast and the players in the game at this point, let's be honest.
these issues are pretty common at this point in the show, they just gave up on the slow pacing and political intrigue that made the first seasons interesting and decided that fast paced action was the only reason people watched it
Exactly, and then "fixing" that plothole by having Olenna ask how well they did, with Jaime responding something that shows the whole Tyrell army apparently was super shit and got their entire army and castle overrun in a lazy afternoon. Which is absolute nonsense, and such poor conceptual knowledge of history.
That stuff is written by someone who doesn't understand how and why castles were built nor how medieval warfare works. There's zero chance they could have taken that Castle within 6 months.
There's lots of that kind of "lack of writer knowledge" things popping up in the show, especially after the books ended. It pisses me off so much that "Hollywood" can't even hire medieval fantasy writers for a medieval fantasy show.
@@DutchFurnace yeah they just went there house sigil is a rose so they must be bad fighters even though the Tyrell’s are up there with the best in the books
Y’all’s hate for Cersei is blinding y’all to the fact that Ellaria deserved what she got. She betrayed her prince, Oberyn & murdered an innocent girl, a child. I can’t stand Cersei but I loved that moment of revenge for her.
Love Danny & Jon, but I’m always confused why people expect Danny to just drop to her knees & believe Jon right away, and for these 2 to become fast friends & allies.
You can think someone deserved a punishment that they got while still thinking that the person who dealt out the punishment is a hypocritical piece of crap. I swear, kids on the internet are incapable of thinking in shades of grey.
"Cersei has gone to a whole new level." Well what would you do to your daughter's murderer? IMO that was a perfect "the punishment fits the crime"
At least Dany realized she should destroy Euron´s fleet, but Tyrion talked her out of it.
Well she still might, kinda forget...
25:37 That is such a messed up thing for Bran to say to Sansa. Why would he say that?! There's a right way and wrong way to raise issues. That was creepy.
because it's not bran anymore it's the three eyed raven
He's disconnected from reality because he can see the past and the future, it screwed up his mind
Cersei getting revenge for Myrcella was great. Out of all the parties involved, Myrcella was actually innocent and a good person.
dragons are a known creatures and part of the fauna of this world, and they have been gone for around 170 of years. as for the white walkers, they're legends from around 8000+ of years. it's easy to believe that an flying animal exists, but iced unded creatures coming to destroy everything? that doesn't sound realist.
dany and Jon are both king and queen, but it was Jon who came down south begging for dany's armies and dragons without giving anything in return, maybe just so that she can believe him somehow. they don't know each other, we do, so it's easy to be hard on Dany when we know Jon's telling the truth.
but imagine, you're a girl who fought so hard (survived abuse, r*pe, betrayal, loss) to get where she was, just to have a man you never met in your life come to you and say "hey, by the way, I am king, I cannot protect my own people so I came down here to ask help, and by the way, you're not getting anything in return".
This episode proves that Jaimie and Cersei are better at war tactics and playing the game than Tyrion. All Tyrion really did was defend King’s landing against Stannis, which he would have failed at without Tywin and Loras
People gave Tyrion way too much credit over the yrs bcuz he was funny and clever but Jaime & Cersei have always been in the true thick of it. Cersei told Tyrion this in s2 "you've never taken it seriously" which is true- he's spent his life drinking, whoring & spending his father's money. Jaime "didn't take it seriously" either according to Cersei but at least he was a true warrior who'd learnt many lessons over the yrs from his martial mistakes.
People acts like Danys been watching the show and knows John snow. Like she doesn’t know him hahaa
Like, for real
She knew the the starks , funny how she doesn’t know Ned stark
Cersei laid it out as simply as possible: "In the game of thrones, you win - or you die." The Tyrells and the Martells both decided to enter the game. It IS optional - the Tyrells didn't need to wed into The Lannister family and attempt to gain further influence, for example. Their opponents were the Lannisters - the top dogs. You go into a fight with the heavyweight champion, you best be ready to rumble. Result? They didn't win. Therefore, they died. Ollena herself said a lack of imagination blinded her to what Cersei might be capable of. Do you think Ollena WOULDN'T do what Cersei did in 6x10 had she found herself in similar circumstances and had the imagination for such a plot? Ollena would have made sure Margerey and her son were nowhere near the Sept and blown the rest of them to kingdom come.
Sansa is a SA survivor. It's not that she's scared. I think she just didn't want to relive one of the worst things that's ever happened to her, especially with her brother. Honestly, I always felt that that was weird for Bran to bring up but maybe the writers did it to show how much being the Raven has changed him. It's just not something a regular person would bring up in conversation, especially to the person it happened to.
Yall have got to stop bringing yall modern sensibilities into this show- what happened bet Sansa & Ramsey was not SA. Was it rough? Yes. But she went and married him willingly. This is how things worked in those times. What happened bet them is bet a husband & wife. Now what the mutineers did to Craster's wives was a diff story.
@@_justinblizzle after their wedding night Ramsey kept Sansa locked in a tower and assaulted her multiple times, even cutting her. Sansa makes it clear to Theon that she wants to leave and even tries to leave the situation. Cutting someone is not just rough. It's assault, married or not. We don't see her fighting back while locked in the tower because the show doesn't show it, but her and Theon's conversations insinuate that that is exactly what it was.
@@MjollTheLioness-o4y yea, well, she was w a psycho. She’s lucky Theon was even there. And where did he cut her exactly? And w what?
When this is finished, Spartan is gonna be as screwed over as Anakin at the end of Revenge of the Sith. I've never seen someone set themselves up for so big a fall.
This is the first time I see someone who isn't on Cersei's side while she punishes Ellaria.
I wasn’t on Cersei’s side, I was glad Ellaria was handed justice for what she did to marcela but I wish it hadn’t been cersei lmao
@@ChadtheGamer2000 I'm just waiting to see how pissed Spartan will be when a certain thing happens. It seems to me that he never understood Cersei.
@@jucor981they’ve finished the show, what part do you mean?
@@seancarroll5803 Oh, I wasn't sure about that. I was speaking about Cersei's death. I guessed correctly while I was watching that Cersei wouldn't get a painful death.
@@jucor981 They havent finsihed the show yet at all lmao what are you talking about
“Cersei is gonna get wrecked this season I can’t wait” - Spartan episode 1
*Cersei goes on and outsmarts Dany and Tyrion the next two episodes* lol
Outstanding someone doesn’t if she gets killed by Danny 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Euron just teleporting in the sea 🤣
theres a lot of cersei hate over acts that other characters get cheered for, doesnt make much sense
I've been saying this for seven seasons.
they're 2 hypocrites
Like I've been saying, they like Littlefinger... enough said
Yes, so many characters lock mothers up with their rotting children and take so much pleasure in it that they immediately want to have sex after committing the execution.
You’re so right! So enlightened! Cersei is a saint of the highest order, who only cares for true justice! ❤️
@@SnailHatan It was a beautiful punishment.
Luv Pudgey's hair! Also Luv Spartan (red face shot with steam out of the ears was fantastic) but haaaave to say.... Cersei once again shows how almost no one plays the game better than she does. It's a tough watch...but Ellaria got what she deserved. And oh yeah... Cersei is my favorite GOT character... alluring, complex, fascinating, ruthless and in her own way... beautiful.
What Cercei did was between Mother and Mother. I can’t knock her for what she did.
Oh yea remember that Tywin told Cersei that Casterly Rock has produced not a single ounce of gold over the last few years (when Jeoffrey was still king). None of the Lannisters knew, and Tywin made sure to keep it that way, that was why he insisted on the Tyrell marriage by one way or another. And he only told Cersei because she refused to be wed then.
That’s why it was a mistake from the start for Tyrion to tell Danny to attack Casterly Rock.
It seemed to me that Tyrion may have been swayed by the fact that he had such a good and clever plan to win the battle. You could see how much he enjoyed revealing it to his queen.
Just because you know how to win a battle doesn't mean that's the battle you should be fighting (some wise man may have said that 🙂 ).
The Unsullied defending Highgarden would be the strategically better choice.And the dragons burning Euron´s fleet before it gets equipped with scorpions.
26:12 This is the most BS thing Bran could say. Sansa is right. First SHE is the ruler of Winterfell before Jon, and with Bran's arrival, he comes before her. SPOILERS FOR THE SHOW: Why would Bran say he can never be Lord of anything and then take over the Iron Throne? The only reason I can assume the show never followed the logic of Sansa ruling Winterfell in S6 & S7, is because they planned to maker rule it later, so they just made her accept he position which doesn't make sense.
"This is weird" "I don't know how to feel about this" that's season 7 & 8 for yall.
If it were the other way around, you know you'd be rooting for the revenge of her daughters murder. You're blinded by your hatred of Cercei.
I think one of the interesting things about the later seasons is that like half the dialog is talking about events that occurred, on screen, in previous seasons. Like they had no clue what to do and so they just used book material as script padding. Half the scenes are just take two characters that have never interacted before and have them speak about the past. In this episode it's basically the entirety of Jon/Dany and Cersei/Ellaria scenes.
The way I read the Theon incident was that his PTSD flared up, and he suddenly became aware of the fact that he could be captured and tortured again, not that he was scared of dying. He's still recovering from years of abuse and starvation and probably didnt think he was strong enough to fight Euron.
Ellaria had no right to even get mad about Oberyn's death (considering he CHOSE to enter the duel), let alone KILL AN INNOCENT GIRL for it. Seriously, it's pretty disappointing that you can't see it.
Yeah, but the daughter hasn't done anything like that
Spartan is just too emotional
@@FrankeNamensKarim well, her daughter did help her in a lot of other bad stuff she'd done
Cercei feels the way we do when Arya killed the Freys. She feels like she got revenge for her daughter. I actually think that revenge was badass in a sense, I hate Cercei getting what she wants but that was deserved even though it was sick. They killed Marcella ruthlessly
Sure Cersei is a monster, but I don't think Elaria deserves any sympathy or empathy, she's also a monster and she paid for her crimes.
Both can be true. This isn't black and white. Ellaria deserving her fate does NOT make Cersei a good person or a righteous hero avenging the innocent.
@@ms_scribbles never said she was. I said she's a monster.
@@ms_scribbles It does make her avenging the innocent, Myrcella was innocent, no one is saying Cersei is a hero
”Tell Cersei. I want her to know it was me.”
Olenna, queen of thorns to the end.
Yea. Good with her words. But failure in ruling. Where was Tyrell's army? The one they had was a joke. When you are one of the richest houses, you should assume that others one day will turn on you.
I was afraid we weren't going to get a Cersi "Yuck" from Spartan. At least we got a little one during their discussion.😂
Bran: "I can't be lord of Winterfell. I can't be lord of anything. I'm the three eyed Raven"
Me: 🤨 🙄 🤬
Cersei was the cause for her children's deaths, in some ways, but not directly and not always (Myrcella's, for example, wasn't) and she would've never cause them any harm by choice. The only time we see her try that is when Stannis is attacking King's Landing and she takes Tommen to the Iron Throne, thinking they've lost, and almost poisons Tommen and herself to avoid what could've happened if they took the city. But Stannis... Stannis looked Shereen in the eyes while at his command she was burned alive. Literally there is no comparison whatsoever.
Sadly actress Diana Rigg (Olena Tyrell) passed away on September 10, 2020
Um, Stanis allowed his daughter to be burned at the stake. He was emotionless at seeing his wife having committed suicide.
Olenna knew that she would die in any way. She was trying to put doubts in Jaime against Cersei. Notice how careful and strong words she use against Cersei. "shes a monster, you know that", "she is a disease, and i regret my role in spreed it". Plus Olena was also trying to push Jaime from Cersei, as she knew, Jaime was a good commander. Again, notice how, Olenna said "she will be the ruin of you", making a attempt to reasable with him. Olenna even in the end, was playing. Showing that the Roses may have been cut down, but they still have one last thorn to prick. Also, she keept her promise to littlefinger "if my house fall, i have nothing to hide". Obvious Olenna used this, to torture Cersei. Making sure, that Cersei knew it was Cersei, herself who lead house Lannisters to a path of self destruction... Theres also this discussion which side won or lost. But in the end, both House Tyrell and Lannister lost, and won. Tyrells won most of the battles, while the lannisters won the war. But both lost their future. Cersei is old to have children. Jaime is a commander of kingsguard. Tyrion is a traitor.
13:37 We only understand Jon's argument because we've seen his journey. If we hadn't, it would be much harder to be sold on it. I understand where Dany is coming. Personally, I would argue that Dany hass been through more emotional hardship than Jon. From birth, she had zero security blanket. Her rise to power is far more impressive than Jon's.
jon didn't have a seat at the table
dany didn't even get let in and had to beg for food (while also being hunted down and potentially assassinated)
jon struggled a lot but it will never be more than dany (and don't get me wrong, they are my two favorite characters but dany had it worse)
i know the show doesn't go much into the life dany had before but it wasn't great
Ellaria I don't feel sorry for because she did murder Ceresi's daughter, plain and simple. She also murdered her lover's brother, so she kinda had it coming. The nun tortured Ceresi, that was never a good idea.
And his innocent nephew as well, Oberyn himself would have disowned her
It never ceases to piss me off how easy they take down the Tyrells here. They’re the wealthiest house next to the Lannisters and are fighting from a fortified position. There’s no way that would take any less than months without modern siege technology or dragons.
You had me until you tried to justify Stannis BURNING HIS ONLY DAUGHTER ALIVE as not as bad as Cersei. There is a middle ground here: they’re both terrible, but don’t let your Cersei hate bling you to other characters who have made just as terrible decisions. To be fair, if I were a father and someone murdered my child, I’m fairly sure my rage may know no boundary…
I've been watching you guys since ep01 of season 1. But I have to be honest, I'm still here because of the lady reactor. Though sometimes it's interesting to hear the guy's different perspectives, most of the time it's actually quite irritating. Being sided with Jon, the High Sparrow and loathing against Cersei a bit too much would hinder critical thinking.
Spartan is too comsummed by the hate of Cersei at this point. lol He sided with the High Sparrow because of it, he abandonned Jaime as well cause Jaime is with Cersei. The ending will be interesting to see because of that. lol
Imagine being irritated because Spartan has a different opinion than you
@@joshuadixon9102 bro, this is not the first person that comments on this. people are seeing Spartan becoming obsessed by Cersei lol
@@joshuadixon9102yeah well his hate for Cersei in that situation is stupid
Great reaction! Olena is truly one of the best characters. And Diana Rigg was brilliant playing the role. This episode is where you really start to notice the shift from character-based motivations to plot-driven motivations. Look at a map of Westeros... Winterfell is far inland, the closest port for boats is White Harbour. Then they have to sail all the way to Dragonstone, which is FAR. Yet Jon's trip is instant. Remember, in season one, how long it took Rob's army to march south?
I dont understand the hate cersei gets but i really dont understand people getting mad at cersei for getting revenge when thats literally what everyone on this show is doing.also how can you say you cant believe shes so personal with killing people who killed her family that's the very definition of personal
I mean I understand why people hate Cersei. But the Lannisters as a whole are some of the best characters on television. Even Jeoffrey. So I don't really hate them at all.
@@izzyjoshuadavis cersei is no worse than most of the rest of these characters.mostly she defends herself from attacks.however a character like dany burns cities and kill innocents and people are on her side?
@@baronhomer1well cersei did bring alot of her damage onto herself like giving the High Sparrows so much power.
@@baronhomer1 Cersei kind of is worst but I still don't hate her. She is very selfish. She is very paranoid and petty for no reason sometimes. Like she really viewed the Tyrells as a threat when they were not really a huge threat to her at all. She focuses too much on people like Margaery instead of focusing of the bigger picture. She operates out of fear and anger so she definitely has flaws. That being said I do like her.
You don't understand why people hate Cersei? Have we watched the same series? She's horrible
I loved seeing all the siege equipment you would definitely need to conquer a castle like Highgarden - oh wait.
I want to know what's wrong with you. Whoever kills innocent children seems okay to you, if Cercei takes revenge for it, you condemn it. It would be so bad.
What the series shows particularly well is how morally flexible viewers are. As it fits. If John Snow were in the same situation, you would celebrate it.
Orlena and the Sand Snakes got what they deserved. And even after her death, Orlena directly has a great influence on the finale of the series with her words to Dany.
Ollena did not deserve this ...
@@minerva566 Of course, she deserves it just as much as almost everyone else in this world. Apart from that, she herself said that she did unspeakable things. She also played Sansa. She used Sansa for information and abandoned her, knowing that she would be held partly responsible for Joffrey's death. She wouldn't have cared about her death either. And after the death of her niece, she wants to see the whole of Kings Landing burn, regardless of whether innocent people die. That's why she tells Dany not to listen to her advisors and act like a dragon.
@@TomTomson81wow you're blowing my mind. You're right! I hadn't thought of that.
17:34 You say that as if the way Ellaria took down Myrcella was totally kosher.
26:08 "she got scared I think" Yeah I think I'd be properly uncomfortable if my long lost little brother retold the night of my violent rape and how beautiful I was. Surprised no one's seeing how absolutely fucked this is
Notice how when Job Snow says “I’m not a Stark” immediately after a dragon comes roaring in… poetic
I think we consider Cersei more evil than Stannis just because she has had a bigger screen time throughout the seasons... Stannis was ready to kill everyone because he was pompous enough to think that he is the prince who was promised, yes Melissandre had a role in it but still he believed in her because he was hungry for power, he is the classic example of middle child syndrome...He killed his wife, he killed his brother, he killed his daughter, he brought down the entire house along with him, he was also ready to sacrifice Gendry, literally the last true son of his brother...see this is why people sometimes question you and tell you that you are harder on female characters than male characters 🤷🏻👀
35:45 Stannis has definitely burned enemies, but yes it's not out of sadism. I have personally never seen the take that Stannis is worse than Cersei. I'm properly gobsmacked!
I agree about everything you're saying about Cercei, but I don't agree she went too hard on the Dorn women. I mean, you said that about Theon, too...if that was your kid they killed would you feel like any punishment was harsh enough? I guess if you don't have kids maybe you can't understand that, but as a father myself no amount of punishment makes up for you murdering my child.
At least Cersei never tortured her kids... yet they loved Stannis lol, 2 hypocrites
sersei is the villain that we love to love, she is not simple, she is complex, she is like the JOKER, complex, and well built
Dany should've never listened to Tyrion and done it her way, she would've gotten everything.
One thing I haven't seen is a breakdown of Varys' attitude toward Melisandre. The thing is, Varys hates, hates, hates magic. He discusses it with Tyrion when describing his castration as he takes revenge on the sorcerer who did it to him (the man in the crate during that scene in season two or three). He hates and fears the red priests and everything they're about. That's why he came for Melisandre on the cliff and had a go at her. He doesn't want her or her kind anywhere near Westeros. We never see a lot of fear or insecurity around Varys, but magic-users get to him in a way politics never do.
He claims to hate magic yet sides w Daenerys; the single most magical entity in the series 🙄 even Stannis, of all people, capitulated that dragons are magical creatures and that if they were good enough for Aegon to use in war, then magic was free game.
one of the strongest houses lost in a off screen battle LOL!
Cersei IS sick and twisted which is why I think what Stannis did to his daughter is worse than what she did to her kids. He’s better than that and knew better than that and still murdered his baby girl in the most excruciatingly painful way possible. We know cersei is pure garbage and yet even still she would never purposely put her kids through that much physical pain.
exactly. At least Cersei never tortured her kids... yet they loved Stannis lol, 2 hypocrites
RIP Dame Diana Rigg (Olenna) who passed away in 2020. Absolute legend!
Cersei said that in the game of thrones, you win or you die. It seems that Olenna did both
spoilers!
considering that house tyrell has become extinct and Bronn is the new Lord of Highgarden I would say that she lost more than won.
She just lost the game. She may have killed Joffrey, but Cersei killed her whole family.
Cersei literally ended the Tyrell house
Olenna only killed Joffrey
Jon is so much like Ned. Would do well on the throne but really wants no parts of it lol can't blame him, either.
Olenna....Queen of Thornes until the End !
The Queen of Thorns went out like a boss!
You cannot underrate how a formidable stategist Jaime has become at this point in the game. With what he did at Riverrun- take the castle without loss of lives. And here catching the Tyrells with their pants down by sacrificing Casterly Rock. Then next episode Jaime is back in battle.
13:00 Dani has ALWAYS been this way. The only difference is her advisors and how much push back she gets from them.
watching spartan think literally anyone at any time is gonna outsmart cersei and huff and puff every time they fail is so entertaining ngl
Just expecting Pudgy to burst out laughing every intro now!😂
Targaryens suffered another blow bc Danny listens to her counsel and not doing things herself like Olenna advised
what Olenna advised is dictated by Olenna only wish for vengeance, she advised to instill fear and "be a dragon", which is fine for conquest, bad for becoming a ruler (too much time passed since other Targ did that, people are not ready for another dragon to rule with fear over them)
12:19 People have had proof of dragons' existence for centuries. Nobody doubts that. But White Walkers, even during Rhaenyra's time, would be a very hard thing for anyone to believe in, and people saw dragons every day back then.
The Tyrells actually had by far the largest army in Westeros, and the Lannisters relied on their alliance with them to support their rule - the Lannister army was no match for the Tyrells. But hey, D&D gotta wrap this sh*t up fast, they have a Star Wars movie to make...
That Star Wars movie was so good. They got a best picture nom
And it was a box office hit
@@williamerazo3921 They never got to make their Star Wars movie. After the fiasco that was GoT's final season, Disney understandably lost all confidence in D&D so they dropped them. Karma?
Olenna went out like a BOSS! The OG!
to be fair I totally understand Danny. Imagine going thru everything she did to be so close to having what youve always wanted and out of nowhere theres a dude who was claimed king of one of the kingdoms by his people... shes nicer than I am, Id probably burn john alive so everything was cleanly done lmao-
she actually likes jon and you can tell it in those scenes lol
if she didn't like him we'd be in trouble
I think there was a deleted line at the very end where Jamie says to Olenna that Joffrey died in the arms of someone who loved him while Olenna would die here alone because everyone she ever loved was already dead, they cut it so that Olenna got the final word.
That is unfortunate.
Cersei taking revenge on ellaria sand for the unconscionable murder of an innocent little girl was one of the rare times I cheered for her. Myrcella did nothing to deserve the painful poison death she got. Ellaria deserves every piece of that punishment.
Not gonna lie, but this is a adequate punishment. Finally a child murderer gets what they deserve. No sympathy lol
@@cassu6 technically it's "deserved child murder". We all loved Olenna when she killed Joffrey and he was also a child.
@@mellemadswoestenburg1296 in show canon Joffrey is 17/18. And he's a brutal, sadistic psychopath. Killing him was NOT child murder.
@@kevinscottbailey8335 i suppose. I was going off of book knowledge, i recently finished the whole series. And he was a straight up minor in the books. Don't get me wrong, i had the brightest smile on my face when he died. I don't slander Olenna for it at all.
Ew. Psychotic way of thinking.
I love how Ellena "pricked" them at the end, like the rose on her coat of arms.
So convenient winning The Battle of the Bastards unlocked the fast travel ability for Jon