Designing And Testing Hydroelectric Turgo Spoons On A Hydroelectric Test Rig
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- For the last few months I have been working on a hydro electric turgo spoon design. In this video I get thew turbines made and go and test them on a pumped hydro electric test rig.
HI Kris, I’m a 3D CAD guy working in IM for 25 years.The paddles look great, but it would be worth putting 2mm fillets on the internal edge where the back of the spoon meets the connecting arms to reduce the risk of any cracks forming. In fact with Injection moldied parts, put fillets on every edge except where the tool splits. Great watching your projects, it must feel good to be off grid with everything going on in the world at the moment!
Thanks Jon. Once I have a design that works well I will do refinements like that. Thanks for the advice
i tell ya friend, to share the benefits of your experience and knowledge with a friend like this, really cool...i don't even fully understand your advice, i realize it's a reinforcement feature. i'm sure the guy in the video gets it. i thought it was so extraordinary and cool that you shared your wisdom like this, and i had to comment as such. bravo, we all gain from your growth and skills...thank you friend.
@@dimar4u it will also help with the back drag from the splashes. Thanks for the great video too Kris
@@KrisHarbour I'm just a viewer from the United States ...
Question: where (if at all) do patients play a part with this project?
I think it's cool what ya already done, doing, and excited for what's coming!
Thanks for sharing your journey.
It’s great fun watching genuine ‘nuts and bolts’ experiments being done in the real world.
Kris as a draughtsman - CAD & BIM Manager who did two years for fabrication and metalwork and worked in R&D because I kept designing new products when I was in the drawing office producing drawings using the kit and saw problems on site and come up with solutions too often that they transferred me. I love the way you approach everything and wish I had picked up your carpentry skills along the way. You are a gifted individual and I love the way you explain in simple terms what and how you are testing and how you are going to modify the design. If I lived in the country with access to streams I would defiantly find myself becoming a customer of yours especially with the cost of power doubling.
honestly this is why im shopping for a property that has acreage AND moving water because i like hydro power and im gonna prob do solar and wind if i can
Hi Alan, I want to give you the gift of 'The Comma', a great little mark for separating parts of sentences, so that they are easier to read ;-)
@@PhilGregoryFX Phil just put them in when you want to breath in your mind "," unless you are reading out loud ! ;0)
I’m so proud of you! Not only did you come up with a great design that is as good as the best on the market, and then some. But you were completely honest and open with the testing. Then you learned from it in order to improve your design.
I would put your creativity, intelligence and integrity against anyone I’ve ever seen. That is a formidable combination! Bravo!🐝🤗❤️
@BreatheScotland Exactly! Kris is amazing. I would rather have him design something for me than anyone I can think of. I know he would do it right and then keep improving it. Can’t ask for more than that.🐝🤗❤️
Dear Deborah D.
👍👌👏 Very well said, Ma'am, very well indeed! Of course I totally agree!
Best regards, luck and health.
@@Chr.U.Cas1622 Thank you so much, and the same to you!🐝🤗❤️
You regularly blow my mind with your engineering. Especially when I remember you didn’t spend years of time and loads of your hard earned money going to Uni to learn this stuff.
Many people don't need that type education to get jobs like this done. Much of it can be learned at the school of hard knocks. Even thought there are many degreed people working at SpaceX, you see design changes almost daily in things as they learn what works and doesn't work in a specific job. Kris is doing the same sort of thing with his work as you see the " well that didn't work as expected so lets change it" and "that works better so lets incorporate it in the next design". That is the nice thing about 3-D prototype printing. You can make changes rather easily and try a new design.
Engineering? Lol
Genius!!!
@@lancemadson8702Yes, practical engineering.
Love your endurance and resolute determination to manufacture a better product. I think your design with the more flexible and smoother nylon injection molding product will result in a significant increase of power production.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I think the efficiency loss due to the rough interior of the 3D printed spoons is not insignificant. It will be really exciting to see the test results on the final mold injected (smooth interior) product. I really think Kris is on to something!
Your evolution in processes is impressive.
Congrats fella. The joy in the way you talk about this is great to hear. You've found a passion!!
Best of luck with this!!
Absolutely fascinating mate! All I kept thinking while watching all this was how wonderful it is that your customers can watch this and genuinely see how much effort you are putting into making a properly high spec and highly efficient turbine! your attention to detail is exceptional and I think anyone that puts their money your way should be very safe in the knowledge, it has been spent wisely! Outstanding mate bloody good on you! Thanks for taking us along too I loved every minute! 👍👍
Wow, I have a feeling that over the next few years your services are going to be in high demand. More and more people will be looking to reliably produce their own power needs (hydro, solar and wind). I sincerely hope after all the work that's gone into these you get some benefit from it all, keep going Kris well done
Too bad some Corp will jack his ideas do it cheaper and run him out
I was pretty ignorant about hydro power, until now. Thank you Kris for explaining pretty technical knowledge to a newbie in a way I could understand. All the content you put out is valuable, no matter what it is.
i find it absolutely fascinating all this hydro stuff you are explaining and demonstrating
One of the most interesting videos I think I've ever seen on youtube - seriously impressive stuff - can't wait for the final product 👍
I have absolutely no clue what your doing but I love watching your videos! Your a genius Kris!
I enjoy watching your building and creating amazing things @75 yrs young Iam in awe of your talent and ingenuity!!
Your channel stays on mist of the day n nite cuz nothing else catches my undivided attention!!!
This was fascinating, it's great how far you have come, keep on exploring we all join you through your videos.
Thank you for sharing your life with us your fans!
Once you get your designed dialed in you'll have to build your own injection mold machine. Then you can use recycled plastic and your own power to make it all in house. Very cool. My intuition says you would only need a single mounting bolt(the closer one to the spoon) if its sufficiently supported behind the spoon. Would simplify the mold and the costs associated with it and remove more material.
Would the lower mass of the spoon hub, having less bolts, change anything?
'''you would only need a single mounting bolt(the closer one to the spoon)'' ... my intuition says the bold farther from the spoon as it will create good tension between the spike and the bold ... but maybe there is a reason Kris is using 2 and not 1
@@kevdel Mass in motion is of great importance. I saw a carbon fiber presentation where they showed that for automobiles, the importance to fuel efficiency between stationary and rotating mass was at least a factor of four (Oak Ridge National Laboratory, USA). Carbon fiber wheels would be 4 times better towards fuel efficiency than a similar mass reduction to the body of the car. Attack the mass - one reason that the saw tooth design would be expected to be less efficient- it should weight more. But if the sawtooth support could eliminate the use of one screw, that might produce a lighter assembly.
I'd rather cast them from Sn/Al/Si bronze, more strength, durability and once they're worn out, you can remelt them....
You can't "recycle" glass reinforced nylon at home into injection molded parts. Maybe HDPE though. Not sure it would be worthwhile as he wants to sell this stuff and having parts wear out much sooner is not great for the end user.
amazing work and reasoning ... a walk in the woods to clear the mind and it should be all good ... I really like your vision and dedication to quality ... whatever video you will put out most viewers will watch so just do whatever is better for you ... thank you
Fascinating watching the testing of all the variables that go into maximum efficient output!
John's test rig is fantastic.
Numbers don't lie!
Looking forward to your design update and its testing after what you learned in this satisfying number crunch!
There is always an advantage to an empirical approach to a problem that requires a extra measure of tenacity. Nice work.
Say it loud and say it proud Kris! That’s a damn fine design! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I will probably never build one in my life time but what a very interesting video.
Your a man with talent , enthusiasm and ingenuity.
Love your work, the world desperately needs people like yourself and helper. Keep on expanding your talents, nobody can take them away from you once learnt 👍💪👍💪
Amazing test results! I’m very impressed by your work and the testing rig John made; looking forward to see the results after adaptations!
Have you ever thought about patenting some of your ideas?
You should be really proud of yourself. I’m loving your whole journey. Keep putting whatever content out you like.
Kris, you are absolutely brilliant. I love your interesting video's! Please, keep them coming mate! Cheers from Omaha, NE USA
I was looking at the windows wondering when they were coming 5 seconds before you said that was the next video. excited to see it done
Love your scientific, numbers based analytical approach. Kudos to the gentleman with the test bench!
Excellent video. Some really useful work you’ve done there, especially with the current energy climate. I wish I had a 40 meter head lake in the garden now.
Hello Kris, it’s a pleasure and as fascinating as ever to see what you’ve been designing and making. It’s exciting to see the advantages of your slant back offset idea even on printed spoons, polished production examples will surely win the day! I hope you are both well and that your pusser is enjoying spring walks!
You’re level of understanding makes me feel good. I tend to dig as deep as I can on things I’m working on. It is so cool to have you explain all of this stuff. I just think I like how you think. I don’t know what to say. I completely understand. I think alike. I make my own tools though. I can’t afford the machines you have.
Fascinating. Even with my total lack of experience I was able to follow your explanation. You do good work.
Fabulous!! Kris, I love your video's and wish I could join you in person, but alas, I am in the states. I look forward to a follow up on the modified design. I've read a good majority of the comments and your followers are always so positive and like minded. They also provide some good suggestions based on their years of experience which is always thought provoking and helpful. Keep pushing forward!
I knew nothing about hydro before I started watching your video's but I'm finding this really interesting. I just need to buy a house with a hill and steam to make use of all this knowledge now!
Very interesting Kris. It sounds like your theory is very similar to a combustion engine. Focusing on inputting power (fuel) and focusing on porting the exhaust (water splashing). So water in - water out with the least disturbance. A inverted funnel to remove the waste water without influencing the water wheel. Great progress, thanks for the video 👍👍.
If you want to compare your shape modification, you should 3D print copies of the models you currently buy. That way all versions would be made of the same material, and have the same surface roughness.
Italian engineers: "these are the best spoons on the market."
Kris: "really? I'm something of a scientist myself"
🔥
... And now I find myself asking... What would Kris do???? Huge fan since the beginning. Setting out to start my roundhouse project! First order of business...a chainsaw!!! Scary but I'm going for it! Have a small stream on the property can't wait for all to laugh at! Thoroughly enjoy the vids... All of them. Stay safe everybody!!!!
I live in the middle of the high desert so these videos are fun to watch but not super applicable to me as water sources not owned by the government are hard to find
But your enthusiasm for this project is intoxicating. I can tell how much effort you put into the project and Im glad it's working for you!
Favorite channel on RUclips. Keep it up!
Greetings from New Zealand Kris .... What an Absolutely Brilliant vidclip .... As a retired Engineer, Toolmaker, CNC Machinist etc I so wish that I was closer to you. You are so inspiring and are one of those Very Rare 'Natural Engineers' .... Just having the ability to be able to 'rasionalise' intuatively is a Real Blessing. There is Maybe something else to consider .... Something called the 'Solidity Factor' ... i.e. The ratio of the 'Active Area' as compared to the 'Open Space' between the Spoons. You can get into the situation where 'Less is More' and related to the Volume, Water Velocity and RPM.... Thanks so much for sharing your Super Interesting vidclips .... Cheers .... Keith
A very interesting exercise, I admire your determination to get the design perfected. 👌👌👏👏👏
Fantastic your smile told the hole story, you looked so happy, Well done 👍
As long as those "losses" is coming out towards the nozle, is not a loss. What the turbine is trying to do is convert all the momentum of the water and into a rotation around the shaft, so as long as the water is moving backwards it's not a "loss" since this is exactly what you're trying to achieve!
If it goes up it will come down again on top of the turbine. that is loss. a turgo turbine should have all the water exiting out the bottom.
@@KrisHarbour
a) Your test was static, this behaves very differently when at speed (just add all the speed vectors and you'll see)
b) It's only the upward momentum component that's a loss (it's similar for the water you deflect down - any excess speed is also a loss, and this component will be much larger!)
c) didn't know the housing has so tight tolerances that water couldn't flow out to the sides? (because that's where it will go)
Efficiency also depends on the rotation speed, water pressure and flow speed, so one design will have a sweet spot that is most likely not equal to any other, so if you want to do rigorous testing you'll have to plot the efficiency across speed, water angles, nozzle sizes and water pressure (and there's probably a couple of more dimensions to test as well). I think it's more important to test what's actually happening instead of trying to reason about losses in a dynamic system you can't possibly simulate in your head (don't fret - even supercomputers struggle with these kinda simulations). Either that or hire a supercomputer to do the job for you :P
Have you tried the fluid dynamics analysis tools in Fusion360? Seems like different streams (nozzle sizes) and a force sensor could tell you a lot, not to mention looking at the waters behavior based on cup shape.
I didn't know there was that feature. I will look in to that. Thank you
Another interesting test to do would be head pressure against nozzle size, going up from 12mm to 20mm in 1cm increments and seeing what sized nozzle is best for the different head pressures you are averaging on your working setup
Nice to see a project being tested on a test rig, to get repeatable numbers.
Awesome discoveries with scientific methods. Keep it up, Kris! Good job!
So very very COOL to see real research and development! I am truly Impressed with your problem solving skills! Hello to Dot and your 🐅 Tiger!
Brilliant stuff Chris, respect and love from Scotland
Very interesting in depth and long video, watched all of it with great interest.
Dude, you blow me away. What you've achieved and continue to achieve. Cap doff to you sir.
Do you have anyone in mind for the injection mould and moulding.
I know a uk based company run entirely by a retired injection moulder who builds his own moulds and has his own injection moulding machines.
Being retired he’s able to pick and choose his work and over 50 years experience he does all the work in house and attention to detail is second to none.
I am hoping to get a machine and do it myself as I like to do things myself if I can. but as far as mould making im going to need all the help I can get. I would be happy for a recommendation.
Thanks for putting that explanation in layman's terms for those of us who didn't study physics. That was pretty cool, or wicked awesome as we say in Boston.
Thanks for posting and sharing. Very interesting to see how your design tests out.
Awesome Kris! Now like variable exhaust turbo’s, you need to invent variable spoons that rotate for maximum power! Might be just a divot that causes water to rotate instead of forming sprays
Thoroughly enjoyed this episode Kris, great to see you buzzing too! Onward and upward mate!
Well done Kris. Another fascinating video and a huge piece of work.
Your enthusiasm for this is amazing. I love watching anything and everything you create :)
Without seeing more I cannot be sure. But I believe some of the current design will be impossible to injection mold, to much "over hang" and no draft angles for easy ejections.
Still love the idea and it will be great, if you just fix so they really are able to be cast. :)
And these prototyping videos are amazingly fun to watch almost as fun as prototyping yourself, keep them coming. ;)
I have been thinking about that in my design. I have even modelled the moulds (just as a test) everything has draught angles other than the side of the mounting. the holes will need to be formed with pins from the sides and its going to require some quite high forces to eject them but I think its doable as the mounting sides are not that big. Once my design is tested im will look further in to getting moulds made and if I have to change something I will start again.
@@KrisHarbour Sounds great, I wish you all the best. :)
It is incredible your plasmark is that precise. Almost unbelievable.
you have a lovely natural easy way of teaching what you know keep on keeping on
Nice job. As you said, testing it the key. Very impressed with your outputs Kris.
Brilliant piece of vid Kris...You are the genius inventor....Well done.
Hi Kris fascinating stuff, great video as always! The smoothing of the spoon face due to injection molding will reduce the face surface area, and the amount of friction generated or captured because of it.
The more surface, the more the load will be retained. Perhaps try a stepped, ridged or grooved spoon face, increasing the face area as a way of perhaps holding on to the load, increasing the load capture and thereby reducing the high pressure waste perhaps?
Just a thought.
It's great watching your progress throughout your journey, things are really lining up, its great to see!
You may think you can do it better but after watching your progress from the beginning I KNOW you will do it.Love these vids
Excellent work, Kris and John! #LessLoss Industries! ;-) Thank you for another great video! All the very best!
absolutely mind blowing experiments
and thanks so much for not keeping it all to yourself
Excellent video, this is the best way of doing and learning things in my opinion.
It occurs to me that, like the wheels on an electric car, it may be worth considering a cover over the bolts to smooth out the both air and water resistance. Given the speed of the turbines you are generating a lot of air resistance, not to mention water resistance from the bolts cutting through the splash. It would also visually separate your turbines from the all the others on the market.
Keep up the excellent work.
That sounds like an excellent idea
Yes, perhaps a shrink wrap would be light and sufficient.
Brilliant work! Fine example of ingenuity.
This kind of testing is the kind of stuff I live for. Thanks for sharing and the whole journey!
Great to see these tests. Looking forward to the update on new design. Thanks
Great test and interesting design features
Nice one Chris. Looking forward to the Window Fitting and the Install of the new Hydro Rotor.
Well done! Great result. You must be so happy and proud of yourself. Love the channel and I'm so pleased all of your hard work is showing great results. X
Awesome video Kris. Thanks for sharing it👍👍👍👍👍😺🤗🐺🇺🇸
Bringing back little misters of engineering instead of steel making like in the old Sheffield street making
What a fascinating episode!
very interesting and thorough Kris good video.👌
I love this channel been with you from the start.
Hmmm nicely done. I'll have to chase you up when it comes to building my system.
I know it's only for prototyping but you can use "PLA+" instead of PLA, it's less fragile but prints as easily as PLA.
Abs is also cheap and usable option if your printer can handle it. But pla shows working just fine for testing, so only if needed.
There is a guy who has been trying to use the water from a rain gutter (1 storey only) ... and he has experimented with different shapes and sizes for the buckets and the diameters. His wheels were obviously a lot smaller, but he had a lot of different designs.
Channel: *Quint BUILDs*
Video: *Rain Gutter POWER #3 - Fidgeting With Turbines!*
*One result he had was that his buckets were overwhelmed with the water jet ... and having several jets around the circumference could increase the power by having more water flowing AND increase durability by lowering the impact force at each spoon. *
His designs were fully 3D printed plastics ... and they didnt last too long, so your version will obviously be stronger.
The closet engineer in me gets all tingly at these videos.
Great work Kris!!! Thankyou so much for sharing! As always
Fascinating and really impressive results for your spoons!
Brilliant video, I love the sweat top with "the best cat dad" on 😁 🐈 😻 🐈⬛ 😺 🐱
Gotta be honest, I used to not really like these sorts of vids, with too much engineering involved. Just because it was kinda scary for me, scary in the sense that it's kinda difficult to grasp and it reminded me of highschool maths/physics teachers. Glad that I stuck around though, because they're my favourite video's now, just because you explain it so well and I actually understand most of the concepts involved.
Brilliant! Such an exciting and creative process for you and a dream come true in the making. If your designs prove out being that significantly more efficient, I'm wondering how you'll keep up with production. Can't wait to follow your progress and looking forward to the difference all the new windows will make!
How exciting is this? Well done for what you are doing. Lovin' it.
Thanks for sharing,
While watching the testing, I wondered what difference a round blue housing would make.
I think the square blue housing would interrupt the natural flow of output water.
If the blue housing was round the flow of output water splashing spray, would follow a more natural vortex shape such that the spray wouldn’t interfere with the spoons as much. In my limited experience of water movement, I’ve seen that water and air flow easier in round shapes. You want the output water and spray to sort of “follow through” in the same direction as the rotation. To have the spray suddenly change direction at a sharp square corner is causing the spray to waste energy because the air movement within the outer blue housing will become random. I believe both air movement and spray movement within the blue housing should follow a natural vortex path.
So the shape of the blue housing should be a smooth cone shape. Also consider the air circulation within the housing. Where is the air coming from and where is it going? You don’t want to have a vacuum pocket forming in the space around the spoons because it would keep collapsing and pulsating again interrupting natural vortex flow. So maybe there needs to be a large diameter air intake at the top of the housing to encourage natural flow of air flow through the housing.
I’m making this stuff up on the run.
I really don’t know nuffink!
Great video Kris. It was good to see you and John working together again. The numbers are impressive, can't wait to see what prototype three shows. Also, I'm dying to see the windows. Stay safe and good luck with the numbers.
👍👌👏 Extremely well done! Congrats! Best regards, luck and health.
Fascinating and pretty cool, too. Thanks, Kris. 👍🙂🌊
Love the video Kris! Solidity ratio also plays an effect here as the speed ramps up. I think that is why the backwards slanted ones work better at higher speeds, seeing as they would have a reduced solidity ratio.
One man's quest for the perfect spoon. The quest continues...
this was a great video. very interesting watching something come from concept to trials.
I will be interested to see how the testing turns out. In my mind the transfer of power from the water stream to the spoon is maximized when all of the water coming in leaves the spoon in the opposite direction than it approaches. Even the small loses as the stream changes spoons has most of the water being reversed. I do see that water going up instead of down will result in further interactions as gravity pulls those small streams toward the main outflow below the wheel. The water that goes up may cause more loss as it interacts on the way down causing loss, but the fact that it is pushing on the spoon to me means it is transferring most of its energy to move the spoon forward.
Thats right Eric, its not loss in the form of the water not changing direction but in the form of it going up and landing on top of the runner causing drag. Imagine that there is 100x this amount of water (that was just a small hose pipe) all that water splashing down could easily be a big loss.
love watching the videos your an honest man and a good business man keep it up
Ingenious design and build
While the surface may be rough the grooves all run in line with the water flow so that may also help do away with any odd vibration or turbulence you might get in a smooth surface. Total speculation but I have seen harmonics develop in small speeds depending on the system but not totally sure where they were coming from.