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Hydroelectric intake Update and Modifications.
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2020
- The day after installing the intake i was already messing with it to make improvements. Air being pulled in to the pipe was a problem so i have added a baffle to stop that. I will weld in something permanent when i take it out to fit 3D printed coanda screen tiles.
Move the stand pipe would have been more worthwhile if the air was still getting in as it would mean the air could get out sooner. But with the baffle the air is not a problem so the stand pipe is better off where it was further down the pipe so the system can refill and bleed the air easier.
years ago I owned a house in connemara an got my water from the river no mains water supply an I always wandered could i make electric from a mill , I wish i'd of know about this guy back then , what a smashing an inventive bloke he is , well done young man .
Dude I’m absolutely blown away with your work ethic. I thought the world was doomed because all skilled labor was lost. You have given me renewed hope there might just be a few more of you out there.
Incremental improvements all the time, the baffle looks great. Might not have a measurable effect now, but if you do go with more flow the improved intake will make things work so much better. Harbour hydro is already the best documented small scale hydro project on the internet and it just keeps getting better !! Can't wait......
I'm a chemical process engineer and design pipework for living. To solve the air problem you need to introduce an orifice plate into the tee at the outlet side . You need just enough of a restriction to force water to rise halfway up the standpipe to create a water lock. This will allow air to vent to atmosphere out of the standpipe, but the water trapped will prevent air from being drawn back in. If you want to go for a belt and braces approach you should double the arrangement with another standpipe in close proximity to the first This is because the pressure drop on the downward side of the orifice plate will cause dissolved air to drop out of solution and form bubbles (this is the same effect as cavitation on a propeller) and the second standpipe will allow this air to vent.
Your solution of installing vortex breakers is standard industry practice in the outlets to large vessels where the vortex can cause emptying of the last bit of fluid to take forever and for air to be introduced into the pipework.
Doing as you say is fine in aqueducts not in hydroelectric, pressure drops are increased, rather the diameter of the pipeline from the filter leads to T, you can also use cheaper material since in that section there is not much pressure or depression, slowing down the speed of the water means that the air is not transported, then the coanda filters work much better if they do not have negative pressure underneath, which causes dirt to attack the grill, this is done with a stretch of larger pipe up to the breather or air intake T in the event of closure upstream which is missing.
@@winterburan Making the diameter of the pipe from the inlet filter to the tee larger than the rest of the pipework is effectively the same thing as adding a restriction below the tee ;-)
Man you are one smart energetic dude! ✌🏻. Great job on building everything, really cool. 👍🏻
Hey Jeff have any Niles family in Washington state?
Exactly my thoughts he’s amazing.
Great work with your new stainless steel weir input.
A thought came to mind regarding screen blockage. In the oil shipping industry there are occasional oil spills into the ocean which are contained by floating oil booms which contain the oil because it floats on the top of the water. Now, looking at the material which blocks the screen, mesh or coanda, it does so because it too floats on the surface of the water. So I believe that this material can be contained before it reaches the screen by having a flexible floating boom which prevents the material from drifting on the surface of the water and into the screen. The boom would rise and fall with changes in the weir water height. Each end of the boom would be attached to the inside wall of the weir so that material would not escape around the ends and into the screen. Floating debris would then logically move toward the overflow and down the spillway.
As boom material, almost anything that is flexible and floats will do, something like swimming pool play noodles for example.
Such a smart fella . I am glued to the screen as I find all so very interesting. Excited to see what he shares next (I am currently binge watching) as I am new to his channel and loving it ..❣❣
Great energy setup. When it rains it's cloudy so the turbine makes up for it, when it's windy it's probably dry and partly sunny so you have wind an solar, and for those hot dry sunny days you have plenty of solar to make up for it. I hope one day I can find a nice spot like yours.
And when it's sunny in the uk it's still going to be raining so you get the best of both worlds haha
@@squarecoffee8750 How do you know when its sunny in England? When it isn't snowing or foggy.
It's good to see you doing this sort of thing. You are building valuable system knowledge even if you don't see an immediate performance improvement. I like that you aren't just thinking in terms of the power produced but also what other affects air in the system may have (like erosion and cavitation damage). Great job.
One of the few channels I have notifications on for 🔥
Love your videos. My favorite channel these days. Appreciate you sharing all this with us.
Well done fella, I design hydros for a living and your work here is some of the best educational stuff ive seen, your doing it all right! 1.5 times pipe diameter depth in sump avoids the vortex but your baffle probs does the job which is great to see, milk crate works or floating grid, vortexs form at surface, well done and good luck! Adam, Ellergreen Hydro.. Im learning from you.. 👍
Hi, thanks for commenting, it’s nice to hear that from a professional 👍
I used a piece of anti-fatigue rubber mat ( approximately 2cm thick black rubber with 4cm holes at 6cm centres) over the floating intake for my water pump in our farm dam. Had guys trying to sell us fancy (read that as expensive and high maintenance, difficult to clean) gadgets that were quite crap. I just used a piece of the mat about 40cm x 45cm, with the pipe going over the top, and a 90’ bend, and about 15cm straight down through the mat. Works an absolute treat. Haven’t even had to pull it out once in at least 6 years.
Hi Kris, this is a rare treat , the baffle is a great addition to the system, the more you perfect this the more saleable it is. A really well engineered project mate, all the best.
Love your observations and thoughts, try and adapt.
Free power with a reliable system.... awesome
what an absolutely beautiful design and concept, I plan on doing this by 2025 when I move overseas and start building on one of the islands.. my future family has some land and we will be discussing this soon! Thank you so much!
Kris, you should introduce a horizontal section in the piping. And, if possible, a widening section. By doing this the air in the waterflow will go to the highest part off your system. And that’s the spot where you will have to ventilate the air out of the piping.
The best spot would be a bit lower then the water-intake. 50 centimeters? Make the ventilation pipe higher then the level off the water-intake and the result will be a no-maintenance air vent system
Always interesting to follow along on your problem solving/troubleshooting missions. Thanks for sharing.
I subscribed this channel because from this i can learn how to make electricity in my village where there is no electricity still in 2020 but when i get job I'm gonna make similar kind of setup and supply power to my home and my village.
Great work by the man, he showed us that we can generate power without changing the landscape
That is admirable. When you are ready do let me know and I will help where I can 👍
@@KrisHarbour oh thank you so much. when I'm capable and have enough capital I'll definately seek your help.
Excellent job and very educative.In Eritrea which is closer to the Sahara Desert, we have built a thousand dams in like 20 yrs time mainly for irrigation.Though I am not involved in the projects as an Eritrean I am now getting crazy with water technology.Sir pls visit our country some day
Two videos in one week, it’s a summer Kristmas!
Hi Kris, I am still of the opinion that if you put a horseshoe boom in front of the intake that floats on the water, that it will steer debris away from your grill.
What a ball-ache for you. But, very insightful for us. Thanks for posting this. All the best buddy
Another great vid Kris. I enjoy these little experiments to achieve a better functioning system. I didn't comment on your last video, but It was good to hear of the plans for the timber framed greenhouse. I'm really looking forward to seeing that project in the future.
I saw a first flush drain pipe connector the other day and thought of you hydro setup. It had an angled screen like your intake but it had a set of vertical blades on top of the screen to help larger debris glide right over the top without touching the screen - would probably be easy for you to fabricate to test if you were keen. System is looking good mate - cant believe you didnt get saturated changing that over!
You’re a very smart man. When I move to my off grid place in wales, I hope to hit you up as a consultant and hire your services! 😉🙏
The lack of increase in power suggests that flow through the nozzles is maxed out and that you could increase the size somewhat. Also you could try extending the pick up pipe slightly to the rear of the box and out of the turbulent zone in front.
We need to get you more energy storage capacity for when the rain is't falling, it would be a shame to waste all that lovely power when the stream flows well and the wind blows hard. Perhaps a heat storage system to dump energy into which could help heat the greenhouse when it is built
Another great video, have fun experimenting.
I wondering if he can't just add a second turbine inline and increase the power produced by 60-80%.
@@wes9451 There is no power left in the water that exits the turbine.
For a sustainable and renewable energy resource....I accept to be a subscriber....stay well...
Thank you thank you thank you for sharing your creative process with all of us! Love to watch you think out your projects!
Always planning and adjusting - that's the way to get the best from any system. Tell me Kris was the water very cold (its winter here in NZ and I was freezing the whole time I was watching you) - but I guess its more summer time where you are. I liked your comment about getting the present system working to max efficiency before making other changes - like the nozzles.
Love the cat cameo lol. Mine have all been doing that non stop since I've been working from home full time hahaha. Well chuffed the hydro system is going well for you mate 👍 top notch job as usual!
It will also entrain air into the system because of the leak at the union. That noise you hear is the low pressure version of a fire service 'crackling jet' where air has been entrain and compressed and is the released with great force at the branch. Usually caused by air being drawn in either at the pump or one of the hose connections.
I really enjoy your videos. They make me happy, and are helping get me through this difficult time we are in. Keep up the great work!
Ingenious. Top tip on hand getting sucked in, I hadn't though of that!
I love seeing you make everything work out Kris, thank you! 👍👍💯💯
My system is very similar to yours, to prevent vortex's, I lowered the outlet in the bottom of the pickup screen box, it is now 35cm below the water level. I also put a 45 degree bend on the inlet. I think the 45 degree bend down seemed to prevent the vortex better than deepening the filter box. In saying this, it was only a problem when I run greater than 50% water flow.
I love this stuff.
Don't know why I am an electrician it's easy stuff but just love it😂
Very interesting, I agree with your thoughts. Thanks for your efforts filming and letting us see your different tries.
Interesting, I thought air in there would have made a big difference. Thanks for the great content as always.
Your land is Beautiful Bro! 😜 May the Almighty Bless you Always!
It's really interesting to see how you improve things over time Kris, especially with that baffle! Always enjoy your updates!
You got to be really proud of your efforts well done Kris
My son (5) just asked if you were a real person and if we could go visit you sometime. He really wants to look into the standpipe. :-)
I love watching you work. You are so smart. 😁
Maybe a mesh over the standpipe is a good idea, in case debris getting in there.
The whole time I was thinking a squirrel would eventually find it's way up to his turbine house through there. "Why did my turbine stop running? Clogged? WTF how did a squirrel end up in my nozzles!?"
my thoughts exactly, screen off those breathers
......J pipe the top...so the hole is facing down.........screen to keep any birds from making a nest up in the J, lol.
few 90's and screen it off
@@RingingResonance or one nice plump toad.
It maybe worth trying a one way valve on the standpipe so it doesn't let air enter the pipe ,it maybe sucking in air when the water in the pipe drops slightly ,if it were mine i would run another pipe down half way from a second intake and join it to the original pipe you would then increase the weight of water ,a motorised valve could be bodged i am sure to switch that second pipe off when there's not enough water available ,keep up the good work its very interesting seeing you overcome problems few will encounter
You are right about keeping the air bubbles out of the supply because cavitation is very destructive.
Hello kris
I’m engineer faisal
I advise you to put the intake down instead the water above the ground 5 inches and Put a large stone, then a small stone, than net before the entrance to prevent the entry of impurities I did try it 👍
Down inside the water??
Really enjoy watching your videos, keep them coming, great work
Kris is so resourceful he once made a camp by burning water 🤣💪🏻👍🏻
Those fittings are huge. 4:20 makes you look a bit like a borrower doing some regular plumbing :)
I think a stepper motor would work well for the nozzle and just use something like a sparkfun easy driver to control it via your Arduino setup. You would need an Endstop switch mounted vertically as it were to allow it to home to that position and then just work out how many steps closed to open to have the code just do it for you. It would even allow for incremental opening of the nozzle to whatever you want, could even do it via a potentiometer from your shed. Built something similar to open my chicken coop door in a morning.
Thanks for the vid, Always enjoyable content!
The water is oxygenated regardless and turbulence even submerged will cause cavitation. That makes me think a smaller opening might increase that risk but I wonder if you can raise the height of the dam instead? In any case it's fun to watch and I admire your ingenuity. Making your own windmill blades and getting them balanced was especially impressive!
Douglas Jotblad - Kris cannot increase the surface area of the pond created by the water system dam because the pond will then encroach on his neighbor's property. He explains this in the dam building video.
when I see this, I would definitely go another way. It's really cheap too if you want it to be.
First, at a calm spot, where everything has settled to the bottom, make an inlet on a stainless steel plate with a mesh for debris, have that come out on the top of a big hole you digged that you made into a tank with concrete, or a nice wide rainwater tank, on the bottom of that tank, you connect your tubing. A lot more pressure that way, and at the dam you can control the flow rate of water for nature. no air in the system if you don't want it to. You can build your custom rainwater tank too you know, with sheets of plastic and at corners you use fiberglass or you weld the plastic sheets together with heat, it doesn't have to be thick because nature doesn't let it rip :-) Now you have 936 Watts, I think I can at least multiply this by 25, or is that too ambitious with the right generator and multiple pelton wheels ?
now I need to find a place to live where there is a little stream to dam up :)
thanks for sharing :)
Hi , in order to avoid any air inside of pipe, you need to create at list one meter deep tank, so the air have the time to go up, and you avoid the cortese as well, on 1983 on the Tigrit Rivera Iraq, I follow the digging of the 6 pomp, of two cubic meter a second, the concrete tank was 40 mt. Deep to avoid the vortex
To REALLY get the air out you want to slow the flow of the water down for a bit. Make a meter section out of steel or aluminium where you have your standpipe that is a square box much larger than the pipe. Simple enough to do and with a couple connection points can also act as the standpipe location, the water will slow way down and allow that air to completely raise to the surface. The standpipe will help when you have flow that doesn't suck the air down but when you open it all the way up my guess is that it will still draw air. Maybe it will make a difference maybe not but there is a couple watts there at the top end to have air not fighting the water flow.
When you get it all sorted out, you should sell copies of the system! My partner and I would like to build a house in the highlands in the future. Would love to have some hydro installed :-)
Sounds just like me!!! :D
Part of what makes it nearly impossible to sell a complete package, turn key, micro hydro kit is all the variables. Everything from the size and type of intake and pipe to the size and type of the turbine will change from one location to another.
@@Veritas-invenitur yeh probably has to be tailormade, but could also be done theretically, if enough money is involved.
so this pipe makes energy? I sound like an idiot, but I'm genuinely interested in learning about these types of things
@@alyssa-xc2oj Its not that it makes energy as much of it harnesses different physical properties and phenomenons to provide energy.
Stumbled over this video by accident. Guy looks like a character of Game of Thrones actually...
You need a simple intake bypass (like a quick sheet of plywwood) to block off the water flow when you're working on the lines.
If your coander screen doesn't work. I used a stainless steel plate with slits cut in line with the water flow. I cut the slits with a disc grinder, they are 0.5mm wide, about 1 cm apart from each other and the length of the filter box. The water that doesn't get used through the screen washes the screen and keeps it clean. This screen design changed the cleaning I needed to do from every 3-4 days, to every 7-10 days, depending on rain, and my usage of water. If I don't want to clean it that regularly, I can just turn the turbine off for 5 min and all the water washes over the screen washing it.
Your hydro is the most interesting thing you do
I'm used to seeing exactly the same pipe at a much smaller gauge than the one you're using, and at about 2.34 it suddenly looked to me like you'd shrunk to about half size! Weird optical illusion.
Gotta say Kris, you've become a dab hand working with those pipes. I would have made a huge arse of that job, ended up far more soaked and probably swore a lot more too.
Look up "wedge wire" screens. They are used in industry for dewatering slurry and work amazingly well.
Good job mate. I probably would've chucked a plank across the weir gap to stop all the water while you're changing the joiners :p
Cat was just adjusting the setpoint for you. He followed you up the hill earlier to check on progress....
A large size holding tank would probably help you out. You need to be able to be winterized. If you can hold 2,000 gallons at the top that's 290 lb addition to whatever is in the lines. Certainly you have this in your head yes. You are running on the pressure that is in the lines. And if you want to do a larger trick. You need to reconsider how intake is implemented inside your pond lagoon if it was a lake it would be better. Of this the intake would be out there in the middle of the pond as deep as it can go. And though you have filtering a top of the water is draw is under. This gives you all that weight of the pond. I note hoover dam. But it also may get you out there in a boat in be picking off moss and all the other sticks.. well you're doing better than i am. I left all this decision in the mud hole of my father back 40.. you're making good videos and keeping us thinking good for you.
Tip for joining pipes with water flowing, join the ends that have no flow first, then the ends that have flow, you stay drier that way @Kris Harbour Natural Building
Have you thought of trying a trompe? Put even more air in and drop it through a deep bore and then back up to your hydro pipe. Could be another nice source of power. Run your shop in the winter.
of my clients used Red PVC Safety Plastic Road Cones as a starting point for the water intake
solves some turbulence problems and easy filtering with grids
Seen so many " lntakes ' where there is a wire mesh ( or similar contraption) placed at the top of intake box and water running over it.
This always leads to clogging up and lack of flow.
Dirt and debris has to be sucked into this idea whereas literally turning this idea UPSIDE DOWN will certainly solve this problem to large extent leaving much cleaner intake of water and less likely to clog up as gravity will help with solids and buoyant floats to top and away from intake.
An overflow however must be retained preferably away from intake box to divert any natural debris to carry on its merry way down steam.
Intake grid should not be too close to bottom to prevent suction of dirt from bottom.
This sound like a good idea in principle. But what do you mean by UPSIDE DOWN?
If you mean the filter is lower down in the water box, then how would you clear heavy debris that sinks?
I keep thinking the intake pipe should be double in size that it currently is, then gradually reduce the pipe size down would be more effective in power and efficiency, seems like a lot of power (water) is being lost, but im no engineer, just a nutsac. Im impressed with all your projects.
Have you seen the rotating cylindrical filter idea?. Cylinder spins and is positioned like a water wheel. Uses a part taken from an old air conditioning unit. Same as you have… metal sheet with perforations. Seems to clear flawlessly.
The performance improves your generator.
LT4320
A high rate improves substantially.
Just a thought. If you were to slow down the water by at least doubling the diameter of the pipe between the intake and where your stand pipe is. With the slower larger mass of water. The air will more easily work it’s way back to the intake. Another nicety would be a check valve on the stand pipe. Letting air out but not in.
Hello from Missouri USA.
The reason you are getting air sucked in is due to the angle theta of the pipe divided by the internal diameter of the pipe multiplied by velocity of the water running through pipe and under root of the length of the pipe divided by gravity constnt 9.8m2, will give you the amount of suction value which if it is greater than the cross section area of the pipe will mean the pipe length is too long from the source to the turbine, that is why in real power stations they have to have a high head of the water above the water outlet pipe and the distance the turbine is situated . I hope this will help, an ex power generation engineer. 😜
Very nice 😃👍👏 But that uncovered spinning turbine makes me nervous!
I didn't read all the 300 and some odd comments, but another hydro user put a small board near the intake. This broke up the vortex / whirlpool he has experiencing and prevented air from being sucked in.
I think for less leakage on joint and longevity of system supporting the joints so they don't hang will help. Just a guess.
Yeah I agree 👍a support will be sure to follow once I’m 100% sure it staying like that
The water trap needs to be at least twice that size for the back pressure your looking for with a filtration sections in front of the inlet pipe filled with sand and another with charcoal using the same stainless steal screen. This would filter and deoxygenate the water also both minerals could be fashioned right on the site by burning wood and pulling sand from the stream bed or you could make the pond deeper. I know this was two years ago but its the first time seeing this and these are my thoughts it form my experiences of plumbing and filtration.
The point would be to have drilled through your little dam at the bottom and run the intake into your little pond a few feet and not draw your water from a spillway where debris and turbulence are a natural result. Your pressure level will also be more stable from an intake below the dam waterline. Obviously you will need an intake screen.
Well, I understand what you are doing overall but the technical info way over my head. I don’t care I will watch and listen to you all day . It looked cold though
You could put a full port ball valve at the intake screen to make maintenance easier.
Kris, with the black and blue pipe sections,. you need to brace the pipe with stones or boulders so it all lays 'level' (i.e. it doesn't have to ACTUALLY level, just so the joins aren't stressed with poor weight distribution etc) within its fitting so the joins aren't stressed due to them laying at awkward angles. Did that make any sense? lol, sorry, hard to effectively articulate what I meant.
And would help with trapped air if was more level!!
can't wait for the next video on this, really interesting
Ever think about making the box longer, in the direction of the pipe ? You could keep it enclosed with a lid with seals on the sides and bottom edge to prevent water leaking, and still be able to remove the lid if needed. The added space should increase the head pressure and help by moving the pipe away from the bubbles in the waterfall. The screen could remain the same and any water running over the top of the box would wash away any debris. It just looks like the box is to short, to much happening in a small space.
Nice work, as ever. Any interesting wildlife taking advantage of the new pond at the top?
I think some of your air issues might be from turbulence in the Coanda box. If their was more water in the box above the outlet of the box it would take out the turbulence
greetings from lower saxony
May you could set up a second inlet, or a small solar system to operate a small generator that pumps you up the water to a self-built water tower, so something like ne wasserbaterie, so that you have more pressure and can produce a constant amount of electricity unbound from the water level thought of one or two IBC
For the standpipe cover take a pipe cap for a larger size pipe and drill and tap three or four holes around the OD and use pointed bolts to hold on the OD of the standpipe. Air will flow up and around the space between the cap and pipe.
JIM
Install a 45 degree corner piece INSIDE the water intake to bring it closer to the bottom of the intake box, this will also scavenge anything on the bottom and keep the intake clean
Could you try the system without the stand pipe? As the negative pressure of the water flow could be causing a venturi effect and drawing air into the system, which would still cause a burping sound, but not because of air being released but because of air been drawn in???
No way would a venturi effect pull air through that much head. Friction losses due to the T junction however...
아이디어가 정말 훌륭 합니다. 저도 어서빨리 실행 해보고 싶습니다.
Have u considered a LAMINAR FLOW FILTER after the collector to reduce the turbulence?
It may decrease the chances of airlocks and increase the power output
Really cool. Cavitation won’t happen. It only happens on a driven impeller propeller not a turbine, cavitation is when water is under such a vacuum it turns to steam. I don’t think a few air bubbles would do anything good or bad.
You need a Big Whisker Wheel to lightly brush the Mesh Screen...this can be done by piping a small tube of water to shoot water at the Whisker wheel paddles. Let the power of the Big Whisker Water Wheel, Power the Brush.
This is interesting. You have placed a lot of work into this project. My hats off to you. As the system is running what do you hope to power with it?
Amazing work but 400W is like 4 decent solar panels and it require much less work and maintenance.
The only SLIGHT drawback to that idea is that, when the sun sets you get ZERO power!
If you have a system which incorporates hydro AND solar AND wind then you cover as many bases as possible.
Which is what this dude HAS done!
Did you just watch this film.......?!
Alas they dont work well with the typical british weather
Most of the year its cloudy
Hydro works 24/7, while solar panels average 5 full productive hours a day. When it’s hot and sunny, solar is great, when it’s cloudy and wet (especially in winter) this 400w hydro system will out-produce a 4kw (maybe even 40kw!) solar system.
Twoflower always plenty of water tho 😂
@@dietershirley3234 hydro DOESN'T work 24/7 if you don't have any water! Which is the case in this situation for significant parts of the year. So, I refer to my original point - if you have wind and hydro and solar, you cover as many bases as possible.....!
Have you thought about re-making the intake box so the down stream side and side walls are the same height as the upstream side? This way the water won't actually fall into the box but rather flow smoothly. The box will fill without turbulence.