Video with more information covering the entire emergency return ruclips.net/video/Rj5YWwtWQHA/видео.html Thanks to the subscriber that suggested listening to the previous conversations way earlier, when they requested de-ice an hour before takeoff. Was it the de-ice chemical product (either on the aircraft or on the runway) ingestion that caused the smoke? Was it ice the reason they couldn't climb later during the emergency return? Was the aircraft starting to build up ice again before takeoff? Did they anti-ice it too or only de-iced it?
24 was closed until 08:15 that is 13:15z so de icing was not 1 hour prior to departure. Surely wing anti ice on the ground would have needed lots of thrust for bleed air
The "CLIMB CLIMB" call out made my hair stand up. You could instantly hear the difference in the tone of voice from ATC. At that moment, they knew the pilots were fighting to keep alive, and it changed everything. So glad it ended well.
i have chills just listening to this whole sequence - the context and then the start of the emergency. "Climb Ted! CLIMB CLIMB CLIMB" and the call for "POWER POWER" sent shivers down my spine - again! The NTSB report, if there is one into this incident, will *definitely* be interesting.
Thanks for the update, and kudos to the subscriber who suggested more context. This video demonstrates why investigations can take a while. There is a lot of info to gather and review before any reasonable conclusions can be made. What seemed really strange in the first video makes a lot more sense now.
Thanks for this follow-up, Victor. The whole thing where it sounded like the end of the world right after they took off and then everything seemed hunky-dory when they’re back on the ground makes more sense. Wonder if they were supposed to leave the packs off after de-icing but forgot?
You don’t select the engine bleed air switches on until you’re airborne in a Hawker. They likely deiced, started accumulating smoke in the pneumatic system as they were taxiing, and then introduced it into the cabin when they selected the engine bleed air on immediately after lift off.
@ I’ve been out of the Hawker for 12 years, so it’s hard to remember. But I guess it wouldn’t hurt to wait. However, if the smoke is in the manifold, there’s not much you can do to avoid it. The beautiful thing is that the Hawker has side windows that can be opened in flight. Crack em open and that smoke goes right out. I’ve had it a little in a Challenger 601. While scary, you have to remind yourself that it’s just deicing fluid and it WILL dissipate. Or…turn off whatever just make the smoke start. In this case, the main air valves. Flying around unpressurized at low altitude isn’t going to hurt anyone.
@@tfaudree open that window at -4°C and 150kts. I dare you! 😂 I had an event that caused me to consider opening the window, and mercifully I thought better of it. It would have made an already chaotic cockpit impossible to communicate. Imagine the noise in their ears, intercom won't work, and ATC unable to be heard from the roar. I've been told it's deafening. Then there's the chill.
@ 5 seconds with it open and your problem is solved. It’s an inward opening window and there would be more suction than inflow. Would honestly be difficult to open it.
Well that deteriorated quickly. From the other video I remember that I got the impression that the problem eventually fixed itself. I wonder if it was related to the deicing and when the fluid burned away the smoke stopped?
The hawker 800 has a TKS weeping wing system, I believe. This is unusual, usually it’s bleed air in this size jet. Perhaps there was too much time from deice application to takeoff resulting in ice/frost accumulation? But the inability to climb may suggest contaminated wing.
Hi guys, thank you for your great service. I'd like to ask a question. My house is very near to an international airport here and i am listenin tower and approach 24/7 from my hand held radio. I'd like to record them How is that possible?
there are a few ways you can record you can get an audio patch cable to connect the headphone output on the radio into the mic input on the computer and then use an old program called scanrec to record the audio this way you dont have all the dead air when nothing is going on or you could just use what ever sound recorder in the computer to record everything including the dead air but that makes a massive file you could also get a cheap SDR dongle plug it in to the usb on the computer and use a couple of programs to tune the dongle to the frequencies and have a virtual audio cable to patch in to recording software
@@wolvesone Thank you very much for the information. I do have some spare SDR dongles for my Skyaware/flight24 setup at the roof. I have never thought it could be so easy. Appreciate for the guidance.
{So wasn't that the Captain in yesterdays comments? The TR guy?} EDIT : Never mind. The guy corrected his post as more people thought the same as I did. It was a similar incident.
100%, the smoke was from the deicing fluid. And why, in GOD’s name, didn’t they climb??? It’s likely that they were trying to stay visual, based on the arrival report from that previous airplane. Poor decisions all the way around. Thankfully, they’ll live to learn from their mistakes.
You didn’t hear all of it, because if you had listened to the other video, you would clearly know that they did climb. As this is part 2, watching Part 1 would be in order to gain context. Go back to that, watch it, then come back here for the “oops, I’m sorry, my bad!” comment.
@@oldRighty1 The Hawker uses TKS, so there was no bleed loss. It’s been 20 years since I’ve flown a Hawker, but I would imagine, with both engines still operating, it’s would clime at 3,000 to 3,500 feet per minute.
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Video with more information covering the entire emergency return ruclips.net/video/Rj5YWwtWQHA/видео.html
Thanks to the subscriber that suggested listening to the previous conversations way earlier, when they requested de-ice an hour before takeoff.
Was it the de-ice chemical product (either on the aircraft or on the runway) ingestion that caused the smoke?
Was it ice the reason they couldn't climb later during the emergency return? Was the aircraft starting to build up ice again before takeoff? Did they anti-ice it too or only de-iced it?
24 was closed until 08:15 that is 13:15z so de icing was not 1 hour prior to departure. Surely wing anti ice on the ground would have needed lots of thrust for bleed air
@@davidwarren202 when they **requested** de-ice an hour before takeoff, I said. Not that they **performed** de-ice.
The "CLIMB CLIMB" call out made my hair stand up. You could instantly hear the difference in the tone of voice from ATC. At that moment, they knew the pilots were fighting to keep alive, and it changed everything. So glad it ended well.
This time I looked at the map - they are showing 600, the map is showing terrain at 650+. That was close!
i have chills just listening to this whole sequence - the context and then the start of the emergency. "Climb Ted! CLIMB CLIMB CLIMB" and the call for "POWER POWER" sent shivers down my spine - again! The NTSB report, if there is one into this incident, will *definitely* be interesting.
Kudos to the crews that are working under those horrid weather conditions, day in, day out, to keep the airports open.
Thanks for the update, and kudos to the subscriber who suggested more context. This video demonstrates why investigations can take a while. There is a lot of info to gather and review before any reasonable conclusions can be made. What seemed really strange in the first video makes a lot more sense now.
Wow, this is right up there with that Southern Air Cargo 777 stall on climbout departing JFK a couple years ago, check that one out.
Here it is ruclips.net/video/SO3xmzoLzfI/видео.htmlsi=G2naXKcJA00u3o_-
@@VASAviation Ok, loving this answer XD
JFC that whole sequence sounds worse the more you listen to it. Complete normal ops to urgency in very short order.
Are u uploading anything from the aizerbaijan crash?
Ted is still climbing in his sleep
Ted will have nightmares about that for the rest of his life !
This is a perfect storm of nightmare scenarios.
De Ice fluid ingested by the bleed air system have been the cause of smoke in the past. Could that be the reason?
That was my thought now. It’s a limitation on the Hawker that the APU must be shut down during deicing.
Thanks for this follow-up, Victor. The whole thing where it sounded like the end of the world right after they took off and then everything seemed hunky-dory when they’re back on the ground makes more sense. Wonder if they were supposed to leave the packs off after de-icing but forgot?
You don’t select the engine bleed air switches on until you’re airborne in a Hawker.
They likely deiced, started accumulating smoke in the pneumatic system as they were taxiing, and then introduced it into the cabin when they selected the engine bleed air on immediately after lift off.
@@tfaudreeThanks. So are you supposed to wait a little longer before turning on the engine bleeds if you’ve recently been de-iced.
@ I’ve been out of the Hawker for 12 years, so it’s hard to remember. But I guess it wouldn’t hurt to wait. However, if the smoke is in the manifold, there’s not much you can do to avoid it. The beautiful thing is that the Hawker has side windows that can be opened in flight. Crack em open and that smoke goes right out.
I’ve had it a little in a Challenger 601. While scary, you have to remind yourself that it’s just deicing fluid and it WILL dissipate. Or…turn off whatever just make the smoke start. In this case, the main air valves. Flying around unpressurized at low altitude isn’t going to hurt anyone.
@@tfaudree open that window at -4°C and 150kts. I dare you! 😂 I had an event that caused me to consider opening the window, and mercifully I thought better of it. It would have made an already chaotic cockpit impossible to communicate. Imagine the noise in their ears, intercom won't work, and ATC unable to be heard from the roar. I've been told it's deafening.
Then there's the chill.
@ 5 seconds with it open and your problem is solved. It’s an inward opening window and there would be more suction than inflow. Would honestly be difficult to open it.
Smoke from the deicing fluid?
possibly.
@@1ytcommenter”probably”
Fixed it for you
most likely
That’s what I was thinking.
Deice entered the APU intake, and APU bleeds were on. This has happened before.
Is Ted's last name Striker?
@m1t2a1 Shirley you can't be serious?!
@@gungagalunga9040 I am serious, and stop calling me Shirley.
Well that deteriorated quickly.
From the other video I remember that I got the impression that the problem eventually fixed itself. I wonder if it was related to the deicing and when the fluid burned away the smoke stopped?
I thought de-ice was meant to burn clean… unless there was a build up due to the delay that got sucked in to the ventilation system?
@PN_48
Honestly I don't really know. I'm just speculating...
@@PN_48it can still mess with the engine and app operation and be sucked into the cabin air system
@@PN_48 probably mixed with something within the craft
The hawker 800 has a TKS weeping wing system, I believe. This is unusual, usually it’s bleed air in this size jet. Perhaps there was too much time from deice application to takeoff resulting in ice/frost accumulation? But the inability to climb may suggest contaminated wing.
Wow
can anyone tell me what the alarm(s) we're hearing starting at 5:57?
tactile inspection, is that to check wing for ice?
Sounded like it
Yes. It’s to verify the de-ice/anti ice fluid worked and hasn’t failed from the time elapsed or snow falling on it.
Tactile check is required when clear ice is suspected
Hi guys, thank you for your great service. I'd like to ask a question. My house is very near to an international airport here and i am listenin tower and approach 24/7 from my hand held radio. I'd like to record them How is that possible?
Use any sound recording software you like.
there are a few ways you can record you can get an audio patch cable to connect the headphone output on the radio into the mic input on the computer and then use an old program called scanrec to record the audio this way you dont have all the dead air when nothing is going on or you could just use what ever sound recorder in the computer to record everything including the dead air but that makes a massive file you could also get a cheap SDR dongle plug it in to the usb on the computer and use a couple of programs to tune the dongle to the frequencies and have a virtual audio cable to patch in to recording software
@@wolvesone Thank you very much for the information. I do have some spare SDR dongles for my Skyaware/flight24 setup at the roof. I have never thought it could be so easy. Appreciate for the guidance.
Dammit Ted, you had one job...
Got anything on azerbaijan airlines?
That controller needs a re-education on AIM 4-2-8.
{So wasn't that the Captain in yesterdays comments? The TR guy?}
EDIT : Never mind. The guy corrected his post as more people thought the same as I did. It was a similar incident.
Let me get this straight. there were crews de-icing 19, at the time they were authorized to land on 19?
No
No, at 3:36 Ops opens up the runway.
100%, the smoke was from the deicing fluid. And why, in GOD’s name, didn’t they climb??? It’s likely that they were trying to stay visual, based on the arrival report from that previous airplane. Poor decisions all the way around. Thankfully, they’ll live to learn from their mistakes.
Were you there to determine that they made poor decisions all the way around?
@@VASAviationI didn’t have to be there. Thanks to you, I heard it all.
You didn’t hear all of it, because if you had listened to the other video, you would clearly know that they did climb. As this is part 2, watching Part 1 would be in order to gain context. Go back to that, watch it, then come back here for the “oops, I’m sorry, my bad!” comment.
What is the rate of climb in that aircraft in icing conditions, fully loaded?
@@oldRighty1
The Hawker uses TKS, so there was no bleed loss. It’s been 20 years since I’ve flown a Hawker, but I would imagine, with both engines still operating, it’s would clime at 3,000 to 3,500 feet per minute.