Elon Was Right
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
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I'm feeling less and less good about being on Twitter. It seems a little bit like Elon Musk thought that the previous owners of the site very intentionally were exercising power over him, and so now he is entirely justified in exercising power over others. Like, he felt like he'd been trolled when he was in fact just interacting with a world that will always disagree with itself, and now he wants to troll back.
I think he felt like he was abused, and now he's abusing back. The thing is, he wasn't abused, he was just treated like a powerful member of society. Powerful people are always subject to intense scrutiny...and I bet that's hard. Now he's made himself even more powerful, and that seems like a bad choice.
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surely this comment section will be totally pleasant and not at all emotionally charged
LOL
We're gonna do great...until tomorrow when RUclips starts pushing it out more broadly.
Aww cute... Hank thinks that'll take until tomorrow 😉
I mean, check out that title 🙄
@@katiemiller8313 “Hank Was Right.”
"It's not about policy, it's about vibes."
There it is, the exact sentence that explains what a nightmare the past 10 years have been.
The rich white dudes that use their wealth to dominate culture, have unilaterally declared we have failed the vibe check.
In so many ways ...
I am reminded of why John hates pennies. They are (to him - but after hearing his logic I hve to agree) a sign of this "so busy vibing that we can´t be troubled to make policy" thing.
Lmao wait until you read Society of the Spectacle and other works of Critical theory. Or post-structuralist, or Umberto Eco, or really any postmodern philosophy at all
That's the secret, it's always been about vibes.
Yep. This is it... 100%. Including the 10 year long living waking nightmare.
Strange how I’ve happily lived 23 years without ever using Twitter for more than a total of an hour.
I have extracted maximum productive value and satisfaction from Twitter without signing up for a user account.
i don't think twitter is that old.
@@ninja.saywhat It's still a clear statement of how much use he has for the platform. You can both be right.
There were many people who lived happily until death without ever playing a single video game, used a smartphone, used the internet, or watched films. My grandparents like to brag their happy youth in the countryside without electricity even. A lot of the things in modern civilization is unnecessary to live a satisfying life.
Same
You don't need to be on Twitter to know the Twitter drama. I've been safety behind my 5 inches of bullet proof glass watching the chaos unfold. I have not been on Twitter in at least a year.
i just don’t love the fact that some people are entirely exempt from the consequences that everyone else has to deal with
@@vlogbrothers but is it unreasonable to ask for it to be fair?
@@mckinneym.2743 oh yes, absolutely
@@yriiiiiii why?
well that didn't started now,and will not change so soon.
@@mckinneym.2743 god help us if it is 😰
"It's not about policy, it's about vibes."
You sir have described everything from corporate shilling, to social media, to politics in one sentence.
...but vibes don't pay the bills
@AeonReign Not when you have large companies being impersonated and causing their stock to drop. They are the ones that pay the bills...no adverts...no twitter.
Vibes run both sides unfortunately
@@scpatl4now Maybe this particular vibe will attract other companies, ones that were not attracted to Twitter before.
Kind of always has been, but definitely is now.
We could refer to thegender debate for it aswell - its not even just about policy but what people proclaim to be their principles.
You'll get Rightists (in the Anglo sense, which id argue is just a very strange version of Liberalism, but thats besides the point) proclaiming that they're for *Individualism* and Lefties posturing as if they just care so much about thecollective, and if we single out the gender thing, what could be more individualistic than saying im not bound by the physical realities of my sex and how that translates to the social sphere, but am a phenomena of boundless unlimited expressive possibilities etc, while conversely, it is very much of a collective leaning to hold that the categories into which i am born do define me, or at least are a major piece of the puzzle that is essential to be lived in accord with.
This isn't hypocrisy (it is reflective of not being well learned, a quality shared mutually by each "side") its about the vibes.
Words get associated withyour side, and the word becomes like any Heraldic symbol.
A form of vibes.
And the vibes are really those of Friend/Enemy, sadly to say.
“People don’t want Twitter to be stable!”
How did I know this information for so long, but not realize it?
It's the Jerry Springer Show of social media...so yeah, maybe that's what Musk will continue to form from the ashes of what use to be a pretty typical social media platform.
Yes, astoundibg to see that, as always has been, watching a trainwreck like this happen so quickly is entertaining.
Pretty much lol I only got on for artists I like. Alot of fellow artists are either leaving or planning to leave so their audiences will follow suite and find a new media. Twitter is definetly something else.
It’s like saying "wow, this is the most amount of people that’s ever been in my yard!" and they’re all there to watch the house burn down.
I have a feeling this is only season 1 of "Twitter burning down", in daily episodes.
And each episode is about new Twitter people, watching old Twitter people run around in panic thinking their hair is on fire. Everyday. Over and over and over.
Even a broken Elon is right twice a day
You actually made me laugh out loud! You win ten internet points
+
+
In the digital era, a stopped clock has no display.
@@NotSoMuchFrankly amazing and accurate here 🤣
John and Hank, the Real Househusbands of Twitter.
I mean he was right but he was also the guy who turned 55 billion dollars into 8 million so you know there's that.
*squints* How can we know this comment is from the REAL Vlogbrothers? *falls to knees* Check marks mean nothiiiing! lol
The phrase "househusband" makes my heart feel better
1:53 - you were wrong because you failed to take into consideration that the bulk of those who "follow" (worship), at the altar of Musk, love and embrace fascism. They CRAVE it. They want to be RULED, and they want their rulers to put their boots on the necks of all those who oppose them.
I love that you said John and Hank. Waiting for the title of the podcast to change in a decade or so.
I went on Twitter to make friends, but definitely couldn’t escape all the drama. What gets attention is the stupid funny stuff, not often the truly insightful stuff
I'm pretty sure that's a reflection of the American people rather than the platform, don't you think?
"I went on Twitter"
Found the mistake
@@yelnatsch517 pretty sure it isn’t just people from the United States that use Twitter.
People talk at each other, and over each other. Real dialog is rare to nonexistent. What's the point? Just to get a dopamine fix from people "liking" what you tweeted.
@@bernlin2000 You're just not on the right sections of twitter then. I've seen lots of real dialog.
Just gotta say I love your content so much. You helped me get into nursing school with your amazing anatomy and physiology videos. You and your bro are so insightful and I trust your opinions on things a whole heck of a lot. That is all.
Your observation about people not wanting stability on Twitter and instead seeking drama and spectacle is exactly why I've decided Twitter is bad for my mental health and have stopped using it.
Well said.
Deleted a longggggg time ago. I wouldn't say it's the "instability" that got me down. It's the inhumanity. People feel encouraged to say the shittiest things from behind the intermask. It just seems like it promotes the worst versions of ourselves.
I stopped when Trump was elected. The vileness of his supporters made me truly lose a lot of my views as to what I thought humanity was.
i never used it, SJWs who get triggered over nothing use it, and that's the impression I got of it due to yt videos covering the sjw subject constantly. Mildly entertaining dumpster fire
Yup!
“It was never about free speech, it was about vibes!” makes the past 10 years make so much more sense. We were all arguing about freedom when really we didn’t want to feel unwelcome.
That’s a good point. The whole identity politics is because certain people don’t feel welcome. LGTB people and atheists and racial and ethnic minorities want to feel comfortable in their nation. At the same time conservative and rural Christians want to feel comfortable in a world where “wholeness” is making many of the ideas they grew up with socially unacceptable.
Maybe the real trick to ending the division is to find a way for conservatives to not feel completely excluded without tolerating their bigotry? Maybe getting them to be more comfortable with diversity?
This is a really poignant observation for both macro social behavior and also interpersonal relationships.
The thing that gets me though, is that one half of the argument defines feeling welcome by the ability to make other people unwelcome.
@@TheSunGamer101 that’s kinda the outcome either way. No matter which half.
@@theafricanrhino Well, you're potentially assuming that we can never come to some sort of consensus about what speech/behavior is basically appropriate on what platforms. While there will always be debate about what kind of speech is or is not appropriate for (say) broadcast TV or radio, in a rational society, a majority of citizens can discuss their concerns and come to something like consensus on this. Asserting that one half of the participants will always be upset and/or feel unwelcome assumes that dialogue between human beings has ended and we will never be able to understand each other or agree on anything. Which is scary.
My issue with twitter is the over representation of toxic people when in fact, the ratio of toxic vs non-toxic people in real life is far less. This is further worsened by anonymous accounts, which brings out even more toxicity because they can essentially hide behind a wall. All this just diverts the discussion to other tangents, drowning the actaully useful conversations. So if there's a way to filter out the toxic noise while ensuring actual human conversations are happening, I'm all for it.
It kinda makes sense. Truly toxic people drive others away in real life. And normal people, as they get older, get better and better at minimizing the number of toxic people they encounter on a regular basis.
So if you're one of those toxic people who nobody wants to talk to in real life, but you desperately want to get your shitty opinions out there anyway (because you're toxic) then the advent of a platform which lets you do all that without having to reveal your identity is going to pull you in like an electromagnet.
Toxix people cause engagement. Twitter loves that .. What's better then a crazy mofo screaming, two mofos screaming. It's a circus but has its moments like the early days of covid.
There sort of is already. Don't follow those types people in the first place.
If you're looking for productive levelheaded discussions, then anywhere in the internet is sort of a bad place to look. Not just twitter, but you can see those toxic people in RUclips comments, reddit threads, or or anywhere where people have a chance to voice their opinion tbh.
There's also the bias where many discussions tend to be on topics where people are in a disagreement, where they have something to debate heatedly over, or have something hateful to say, because if people were in agreement, they'd just leave a like and maybe share, or maybe leave an insignificant comment that adds nothing to the discussion. "Negativity bias" or something like that.
I won't discount that productive discourse happens, but they are very rare.
There was it's called a terms of service
Narcissists are attracted to social media like flies to poop.
I think you are wrong in saying "Policy doesn't matter, the vibes matter" its actually "Policy doesnt matter as much as who is enforcing it". Over time policy does change to fit those biases, but many times they are hidden.
The "vibes" are "we ban shit, they don't" lol.
My favorite quote is something I heard in a ContraPoints video that went something like: "we pretend we're living in a time like Greek rational philosophy, when we're actually in the Roman circus" (definitely not exactly what it was, but it's something along those lines), and I think that's incredibly accurate.
"This is an aesthetic century. In history, there are ages of reason and ages of spectacle, and it’s important to know which you’re in. Our America, our internet, is not ancient Athens - it’s Rome. And your problem is you think you’re in the forum, when you’re really in the circus."
@@alanasmith9444 That's the one!! I wasn't sure what/where it was and I was too lazy to check lol
My goodness, so true. Populism and self-entitled angry mobs. Of course, Athenian voting was not the rational affair we like to imagine it. People stood with their neighbors and watched how each neighbor voted. So suburbs functioned as voting blocks.
@@alanasmith9444 which video was this?
@Christian Lewis Well, Rome may've been less war-mongery (at least with those it considered allies; the Greeks loved to fight wach other), and I don't know enough about the fine details of Greek politics, but have you studied Roman politics much? My goodness, they could give our smear campaigns a run for their money! Talk about libel and slander!
Maybe that's not enough to make them less "civilized" than the Greeks, but I feel like Greece was less inclined to using such methods, at least not in such a lackadaisical manner.
It is crazy. I don't like twitter. I dont use twitter, but the craziness has led me to go and read twitter stuff lately. It almost feels like how everyone looks at a car accident. Curiosity just piques and overwhelms
Same, I’ve been getting this twisted kick out of watching the dumpster fire that is Twitter lately. It’s transfixing. I can’t look away and honestly I don’t want to
Same way im looking at us politics. And twitter of course, yeah
I don't look at Twitter because the UI seems like a pain in the ass to navigate. Also, the crappy website won't let me navigate without signing up. I'm sticking to Reddit.
curiosity piques*
I wonder to an extent how much that has driven the numbers. If you buy a museum and then fire all the security guards, traffic will go way up as people show up to steal the paintings and sculptures, paint graffiti on the walls, etc. But all that activity will drive away the original patrons whose donations kept the museum open, and soon even the graffiti artists will wander off in search of new, more interesting places to grace with their art.
Kanye West really tested how far he could push the free speech thing on the platform before getting YEETED off….so he’s taken one for the team to establish that there is in fact a line to incrementally work back from test that limit ….only took him a couple of hours too 😂
He wouldn't even unban Alex Jones, and I get it cause of the sandy hook drama. Elon doesn't want to get into legal troubles, but atleast for Ye what he did was stupid
THANK YOU! I've been pissed off how people would misunderstand Elon's crowd on a fundamental level. Yet, trying to explain, that doesn't make them the "Bastion of Freedom" they see themselves to be.
With respect, almost all people misunderstand many things about why Twitter works - MAKES MONEY.
And, how it is A BUSINESS shareholders control, NOT a public utility.
Those of us who don't follow & know in-depth about Elon's many past projects will misunderstand how radically Elon intends to shake up Twitter's business model.
Elon more or less explained his plans, just in bits and pieces over latest interviews.
Na , somebody that promots Trump , is an Danger to everyone .
@@elektrotehnik94 And arguably the problem with social media in general is they are a business but they have become so important to how people live that it can't be allowed to be independent if looking at it from a perspective of government as the flow of information has previously been a power of the state
@@iodiimelita7999 shut up
@@elektrotehnik94 Except Twitter doesn't make money. It hasn't for years.
Also it is a private company now so there are no shareholders.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand Twitter
I don't have Twitter and don't care who runs it.
The thing that worries me is something else that goes much deeper than Twitter, but which is shown great here: personality cults. People are obsessed with Elon Musk because he's rich and successful, they blindly follow everything he does, will defend anything he does or says just because it's him and will fight anyone who dares point out his flaws- all because he's successful. This is not just an attack on him because I've seen it happen with so many other celebrities- and it's dangerous.
You need to always be critical, always make decisions and shape your opinions based on your considerations, rather than what someone else thinks. If Hank and John were to say or do something I disagree with I'd point it out and maintain my opinion- but there are people out there who are so obsessed with celebrities that they'll change their moral values based on what their favourite celebrity does. It's scary.
Just like anybody else that idolizes wealth, the grand majority of Elon's idolaters are horrible people with no redeeming qualities - mostly dudes that are aggressively racist, sexist, transphobic, or any combination of bigot qualities and they ALWAYS lead with cheap insults; looks-based if possible. Then you check out their profiles and they're blasting back and forth between scouring Twitter for people to attack and retweeting sports shit, hahaha
Indeed scary, also scary that the opposite happens where no matter what someone does there are people who will hate them and not acknowledge anything positive they do, for whatever reason, like just being told to hate them or because they think different than them. We should all be able to point out any good or bad someone does regardless if we share the same views and values. Personality cult behavior and , for lack of a better term, anti-personality cult behavior is unhealthy for society.
I mean, the opposite is somewhat true as well. I'm very neutral about Musk, but as soon as you mention anything non-critical you'll have people dogpiling on you. It's not just a one-way thing
Without a doubt, JD Rockefeller had the same stans in his time. This is nothing new. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Ronaldo, Lewis Hamilton… all gods to some for their ability to rise to the top.
By this logic, wouldn't Bezos also have a huge flock of fans around him? I feel like there's more to it than just success that people like. Not denying it's definitely a factor, but to reduce it to just "rich and successful means popular" seems off.
The reality show angle is very interesting. That's really what Twitter has always been, at least in part, and just how The Rehearsal was a reality show about a guy making a reality show, Musk's Twitter is the Twitter Drama of trying to capitalize on Twitter Drama
If 80% of the reality actors are bots
...i wish this idea recognized artists & online communities a bit more
Elon Musk's Twitter is to Twitter what "OOPS! All Berries!" is to Cap'n Crunch.
@@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 Elon Musk's twitter is like watching Dr Pepper suddenly decide that Whole Foods Fake Dr Pepper had it right the entire time and changing their flavor to it and then wondering why it doesn't work.
@@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 +
I think that the issue people had with twitter wasn't the TOS rather than the application of it. There was a perceived bias, and while I can't speak to that, I can speak from observation that the rules, especially regarding hate speech and, particularly worryingly, incitement to violence were not evenly applied. There were even trending tags that openly wished death on large groups of people. I don't consider myself one of "musk's people" nor, it seems, the group you call "everyone else" and I find it very hard to believe that so many people have never seen this kind of bias at play, much less that so many can't see that this sort of bias has far reaching consequences that reach far beyond twitter itself.
Sadly, if unsurprisingly, it seems musk is just applying his own bias instead of trying to minimise his predecessors. this may well just make twitter a place that isn't
Taken so seriously, and to my eye, that's a good thing.
There is a list of 5,000 left-wing people who have been immediately banned on Twitter. Not for saying anything in particular. It's who they are.
ruclips.net/video/d4rlYfEghII/видео.html
Everyone sees it, but speaking about it is wrong these days and if you dare do it there's a slurry of names you'll be called to pacify you, scare off others that want to do it, and shoo away ppl trying to hear you
Conspiracy theorist, anti semitic, racist, trump supporter, CNN watcher, fox watcher, etc. You get the idea
All of those were used previously to serve that purpose
This whe thing has been a cope battle of whether people can throw out the right coping mechanism to deal with someone else has to say since Twitter became an echo chamber where such nonsense is the only way to prove anything, gaslight the opposition away
except that old twitter was actually not that biased lol; people are just very very bad at assessing how actions they do not like against them fit into the overall picture
@@voidsaverob bro there's literally records showing bias now what you on about
Before that there were countless testimonies and experiments showing it
@@guythat779 ok but twitter still wasnt that biased lol their moderation was pretty functional
He has changed Shadow Banning which was a policy that Twitter used to reduce the influence of certain Twitter accounts that they did not want to see or said things that they thought were fake news
I think there are two red flags: 1) they cut engineering staff too much (50%? and then 25% more from attrition) - which means as they push features eventually they'll have a major service outage for a long period of time. 2) their security leadership resigned - that indicates leadership isn't listening to security. They pushed the $8 change without enough red team time. Bets on service outage before breach before FCC fees.
It won't even need to be a major service outage, it'll be lots of little things - stuff getting slower, behaving erratically, or just not working at all anymore - then if these warning signs are ignored and it's not managed back to health, it will eventually lead to catastrophic collapse. Complex system failure. Of course the symptoms themselves might lead to a mass departure of users, as per MySpace back in the noughties when it got unusable because of poorly implemented new features and excessive advertising linkage.
This isn't how software works. As long as some number of production engineers can keep the backend services on, a significant decrease everywhere else means less chances for things to break. Hopefully, they start winding down things that are no longer deemed necessary to reduce load and improve focus
25% from attrition *as of now*.
I can't imagine most of the engineering team putting up with Elons garbage ideas long term. This week alone he has went back and forth on pushing the "official" badges to the production environment multiple times, probably with incredibly lax requirements communicated to those engineers to do so.
@@thomasreese2816 unless they plan to go into full maintenance mode and run their website how Craigslist does, it absolutely will deteriorate over time. It doesn’t sound like they intend to stop all feature development. Each new feature will have potential interactions that break some other part of the product. That includes each thing they “unship” as well. Reduced engineering across the board just means there’s going to be less oversight and testing across the product, leading to slow deterioration.
To be clear though, I’m just responding to what you said. I think it’s totally valid to suggest Twitter’s current engineering count was actually overinflated, and the reduction will bring the count down to the size actually needed to run the service, and the lost engineering capacity will just mean future big bets are now off the table.
oh don't worry , Musk said people are flocking to twitter. FFS
One of my favorite things so far about all this is Eli Lilly and Co's stock plummeting after someone posted a tweet impersonating the company and saying they would give away free insulin.
Their stock didn't take as big a hit as the one week graph we've all seen makes it look like, if you look at their numbers for the last six months this was a dip, but they're still immensely wealthy. Also, the dip may have had more to do with them losing a contract for some new migraine drug than to the Tweet. Still, hopefully the extra spotlight they'll receive will get a few more people to question why our healthcare system is run the way it is and maybe change their voting priorities in the future.
@@TSZatoichi so they could give away free insulin and it wouldn't hurt their stock that much?
It’s funny I guess but also really fcking depressing that we live in a country and world where a mega pharma company saying life saving medication is now free is considered parody…
Happy to see people's pension funds tanking? That's heartless.
@@FutureCommentary1 obviously you need glasses , re-read my comment. I agreed it’s hilarious.
It’s also really fcking sad that this is what it takes, out of all the timelines we are in the one where it’s considered comedy when someone makes a fake big pharma company account on Twitter saying life saving medication is free.
Something can have two qualities at once don’t act like somehow that’s controversial 🤨
It is interesting how some people tell us to blindly trust other people. But those people we are supposed to trust are all part of the same political party.
It's almost as if people who care about the truth all end up coming to the same political conclusions...
Man have I never regretted not using twitter. Its always a great day not to use twitter
As someone who doesn't have a Twitter, it's still important to be paying attention to what is happening with Twitter right now. Thanks for keeping me updated!
I'm glad you think so....but I'm not sure that's right.
It seems important to follow to see what communities will allow and what laws will allow.
I disagree, the less we as multiple societies rely on the constant garbage-fire online message boards for information the better it is for everyone
@@vlogbrothers I suppose I should clarify - I am not trying to say that Twitter is important and therefore we should give it attention, I'm saying that paying attention to the situation is important because it gives a model. There have been people for years arguing about free speech on the internet and how it should work and I think seeing how this goes will provide an example of the effects.
@@vlogbrothers It is very important to pay attention. Sure, as long as you're a white cishet man you can laugh at the garbage fire, but everyone else suffers more than they did before. That's the infuriating part about people talking about how Elon couldn't make things worse - again, not worse for white cishet men, but worse for those that already have it harder.
Grifters gonna grift. Glad I was never on Twitter in the first place. What an overwhelming, stressful thing to have in your life everyday. It's the same with reality TV; I just don't understand how people can inflict that kind of torture on themselves for "entertainment."
"entertainment." is an accurate description :)
How was Twitter "overwhelming and stressful"? Think people need to take a step back if that is the case.
Nope I'd say Twitter is invaluable and life changing....
Why do you think it's used by so many if it's a poor place?
Because it's so good to find a circle of like minded people is precisely why undesirable things too find their company
But if you are a diligent person it's remarkable how great the stuff there is.....
People keep tweeting that it's a goldmine,and where have I been all along and how is Twitter still free!...etc... If YKYK
@@heytheist9349 The allegory would be more accurate if the store had sweets scattered through every shelf.
@@heytheist9349 This seems to be accurate, thank you.
I think it is a mixture of policy and the people behind the policies. Basically, there are the people in his cult of personality as well as people in the opposite cult of personality, and they just want their people in charge. Then there are a group of us who realize the corruptive nature of power and are thus more worried about limiting the power rather than placing someone in power.
Truth
Power doesn't corrupt, it just attracts corrupt people. A system where noone hold power is bound to implode or be conquered so to say.
Based
I never post on Twitter, but it really is more entertaining than ever witnessing the chaos on there. Regardless of how much I enjoy the chaos, there are actual concerns.
I think looking at the user growth as good is the exact thing that keeps furniture stores having "going out of business" sales for a decade. The people are flocking to see this death spiral. Exalting the user growth is like looking at a crowd of people watching a sinking ship and saying, everything is fine, we can see tickets to people to watch the sinking ship.
Also, I suspect this isn't growth in the number of actual users. It might be growth in the the number of accounts (I say 'might' because I don't trust that Elon is telling us the truth here because of the incentives involved), but many of these accounts are duplicate accounts that people are opening to do things like participate in the great parodying... and I'd guess that there are many bot accounts being created.
Cope , your left platform is no longer an echo chamber, its amazing sering leftists usually manner of coping reasons :)
@@aa1greg literally all he’s done so far is make it easier to impersonate and scam people
I love how he assumes these new users are humans and not bots, since he fired the team in charge of looking out for new bot techniques.
@@aa1greg Twitter was never either of those things, but it’s weird how little right-wingers actually know about business, considering how much you bang on about it.
There are two wolves that live inside Hank: the one that is not interested in growing Nerdfighteria and the one that is really proud of the effective (but fitting) clickbait titles he thinks of
That’s an interesting take that probably has some merit. I can’t speak for everyone, but I am primarily relieved that Twitter’s moderation will no longer squash news, opinions, and accounts viewed by 50% of the country as misinformation. Twitter’s moderation job is to transparently squash bots and illegal speech. There is probably also value in transparently promoting higher quality content, but that needs to be organic and unaffected by the beliefs of the CEO and employees.
And this aged well. He just dropped the covid misinformation policies.
Who even cares about Covid anymore? It's not the current thing right now. People only care about covid when their favorite politicians care about covid
What he's doing with Twitter is unambiguously good. Firing the idiot dev team and taking authority-based thinking mechanisms that don't belong on the internet off of the site. Either Twitter assfails and dies (which is a good thing compared to what it was, because the site was objectively terrible in 2021), or it becomes freer. Win-win.
@@tyrjilvincef9507 that's hilarious. Freedom of speech as long as you are not a private company I don't agree with.... Sure. Also you clearly have no idea what it takes to run large scale infra if you think Twitter's team are idiots.
Good
For good reason. That was a joke.
I feel like billionairs have way too much power though... being able to just pay your way to change is something NO INDIVIDUAL should be able to do
I agree
"No individual" is not the American way, and you shouldn't expect American culture to change
The last time I was this early, I wasn’t verified on Twitter
Thank you for coming in this journey with... I mean... For this thoughtful and unbiased insight, very refreshing actually.
"People don't want to Twitter to be stable."
Sigh... every year creating Twitter gets to be a worse and worse decision for humanity.
A minor quibble: sure the number of “users” is going up, in so much as people are joining just to be a troll and engage in shenanigans, which isn’t really sustainable long-term, and the site is being flooded with bots again too. So I mean, fine, the numbers are up. But the signal-to-noise ratio is way off and eventually it will just be a husk of its former self.
Also all the advertisers are walking.
Exactly , if there is no verification and content moderation then twitter will eventually devolve to 4chan
As a somewhat outsider to this (I don’t use Twitter and have no inclination to) this falls pretty in line with how I’ve felt about the whole thing. People who were upset with the change felt that the old Twitter staff was, for want of a better phrase “on side” in the sense that they wanted to moderate content the way those people wanted content moderated. The people who supported musks takeover felt the same about him.
It’s like Tom Scott’s idea of the “truth machine” and how content moderation is always going to create outsiders.
I agree heavily. I know that people dont like Musk and I really dont mind him but nor am i a super supporter, just like that he is for free speech and accountability of oneself from what it seems. I never liked Twitter especially in the content moderation because it always felt EXTREMELY one sided, where any liberal posts would be completely left alone unless in the downright aweful category, and any conservative post seemed to always be on thin ice. Not to mention the constant catering of left wing content, and the moderators he fired day one and were in charge of all of this were openly liberal and supported such things. I wont say this means anything, but honestly i just want EVERYBODY checked or unchecked rather than seeing any one side in control. Really hoping Musk is the right one to do that but we'll see
Never thought I'd see a sock salesman evaluating a tech company but it's 2022, and here we are.
"Elon's people" vs "everyone else." Maybe it's "everyone else" vs. "Hank Green's people."
I joined Twitter for a hot minute, looked around and said I'm outta here. I watched a video where some news pundit was calling Twitter a place where people get information about poll locations and I'm like... well they shouldn't.
Every once in a while I'm forced to go on Twitter, either to report an issue because the company decided they don't need a dedicated problem reporting page, to submit an entry for a contest/expo, or just to get status updates and notifications, only to be quickly reminded why I have to keep deleting my accounts.
The groups that tended to be the most toxic seem to have mostly fled the platform now, but I'm still leery about returning.
eh, Twitter's like a knife vs a gun though. Sure you can stab someone with it, but you can also butter your bread with it. It's just a shame that all the blood from the stabbings is soaking into the delicious buttered bread.
Imagine getting your info from other people when you're literally on the internet
"The medium is the message." Owning the medium is a great way to control the message.
That's... not what that phrase means.
What message?
@@b3at2 "The Message". War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery.
My problem with content moderation is that not only comments like "I hate and want to kill a minority group" are censored but also comments like "I do not agree with defunding the police" which is not hateful and depends on a point of view. I think content should be moderate only if it says something illegal end of story.
I don’t understand any app that is just older people yelling about politics. I mean that’s everything to some extent, but at least with YT, Insta and TikTok I can mostly keep all that away (just don’t read comments) and just watch what I want to see, and it’s entertaining content, not just people telling me what my opinion should be. I’ve never, ever even looked at something on Twitter or Facebook much less had an account and I seriously don’t know anyone my age (18) who uses either one or ever has.
Sometimes you can't control the vibes, but you can still put out your own good vibes. Thanks for the great socks every month!
I only wish I could afford them.
hank's battle for the soul of twitter is the single thing keeping me interested in that website
Well, I'm not sure how much longer I want to fight for it.
twitter has no soul.
When I heard “the home page is now the trending page” I felt Hank’s heart sink from 1000 miles away.
Actually I don’t know exactly how far Hank is from me, but that’s beside the point.
@hankgreen for chief twitt
@@vlogbrothers +
As a software engineer, expecting engineering/designers to ensure their products are legally compliant is not feasible. We are not trained to navigate things like this.
This has aged incredibly. I haven't been nostalgic for such a recent past so quickly before
The only thing I do on Twitter is follow artists. It's really not great for that so the moment a better solution is adopted by the art community I'll go there.
I actively avoid the "reality tv" part of Twitter. Latest tweets first, no algorithm.
Best alternatives currently would probably be Tumblr DeviantArt and pixiv, which is a pretty rough set of choices...
It sounds like DeviantArt is making users angry now too by feeding their art to the AI art stuff. I'm not sure what other good options are out there for artists. I'm going to try following some to Mastadon. I'm not one myself but enjoy following them as well. I don't know a lot about art station. Furaffinity can be good for following specific artists, but I don't want to look at the front page. Twitter had the widest reach.
@@Jennifer-lt6wg you’re hilarious thinking you’re smarter than the internet. You’re not
imagining payton reading this title and rubbing her temples in distress
and because you've put the add at the end i'm not only watching the whole vide, i'm getting some socks for x-mass
It’s just trading one set of toxic personalities for another. That’s just shifting the problem, not fixing anything. If that’s all that’s really at play, then Twitter will continue to struggle as it always has.
Struggle meh, but become something more then a shouting match maybe not.
Thank you so much for answering the EU customs thing!!! I wasn't 100% sure from reading the FAQ and anytime I order from the US I get slammed with "non-EU" customs fees, so this is great news. I'll be signing up later today!
Honestly everything that is happening on Twitter makes me happy that i never had an active account and only use it to see what was on the trending topics
Same. I never misst having an account but I am sooo glad right now.
@@katharina9653 Nothing much has changed.
Ditto. Not even remotely interested in twitter
I kind of welcome the shadowban because I just lurk and wouldn't have an account if they didn't make me.
Go cold turkey.
i love how this is all basically an us vs them speech. Elon's people are just people. and people who have a legitimate viewpoint that is surpressed on many social media sites because it doesnt match silicon valley viewpoints. When he said twitter was going to change that. many people are happy about that. dissenting points of view are essential in weeding out bad views from good ones. anyone who wants to be right all the time has to change their mind alot. and you will never have the opportunity if you never hear a dissenting view. Thats good for ALL people not just "elon's" people., "youre" people, or "my" people.
i vote kick the feet off all the scales or become publishers and take responsibility for the views on your platform that you police extensively.
I did not like the "his people" premise of this video, but after the recent disclosures of the behind-the-scenes corruption at Twitter, well, maybe I am Musk folk.
"...feeling important despite being mostly inconsequential"
Our "outcry" society nowadays
Good to see folk describing Twatter as 'inconsequential' - I've never been able to understand how much sway it has over our 'elites' when its US penetration is
I dont want twitter drama. I'm on twitter to stay in touch with friends, discover interesting news I otherwise wouldn't see, and sometimes attempt to get in touch with someone I dont know. That third item almost never works because Twitter's algorithm de-prioritizes my tweets and replies to the point that I often feel invisible on the platform. Given all the new drama and my desire to NOT support anything Elon does, I'm working on getting alternate venues set up for contacts and news. Preferably not another social media site, as I'd love to take back all the time I waste on twitter.
Personally deleted my twitter account this week, even before Musk took over I would often close the app either mad or sad. Ever since he took over I would just be so frustrated with how much of my feed was discussing the Musk business. It was really the last straw for me. Now my only social media is RUclips and an Instagram I almost never use.
so you deleted your twitter BEFORE musk took over because BEFORE musk took over you would often closed the app either mad or sad? keep in mind he still hasn't made any changes to the moderation. sounds like you had an issue with how the previous owners ran things. so did musk. how about you try waiting a bit before making any judgments.
I was considering leaving twitter for a long time because most of the time it made me feel bad. The final straw that helped me to make my decision wasn’t exactly Musk’s acquisition of Twitter, it was his childish and dismissive behavior on the site, it didn’t give me hope for improvement. If twitter does become better under Musks leadership I will be delighted.
Crazy thought, if people stopped caring about twitter, it wouldn’t matter anymore.
Right? like do people think twiiter is the end all be all of the internet?
Elon doesn't necessarily need to change policies, although I would argue there are some that need changing. What everyone *needs* is that the rules are enforced fairly without a clear and present BIAS.
Twitter is quickly becoming more unstable than Tumblr and that’s saying something
Its all in the name.
One of the more interesting differences is user moderation through the tagging system. Yes, twitter has its # s and you can mute topics, but there's a key difference: tumblr tags are not part of the character limit. Which is much larger than twitter's. To an almost comedic degree. People write entire fanfiction chapters on there, with tens of thousands of words. And to properly spread those, they tag. Sometimes extensively. That's something that's quite honestly impossible on twitter. You always end up seeing stuff that does not interest you whatsoever because a new # dropped in your vague vicinity, either digitally or physically. Even after blocking a similar topic. Whereas with tumblr, it's 98% just people and tags you actually follow. Because you don't have trends constantly on the screen. So when you see something you do not like, you can block its tag. And if you engage with it, it's because you yourself sought it out. Yes, tumblr has a Reputation(tm). But you only see the shitshow if you want to.
tumblr was unstable? I thought it was all poetry, fanfiction and art
@@therabbithat oh my sweet summer child.
@@Guru_1092 To be far, it's both!
I'm actually not that interested in this Twitter drama, but knowing that you finally fixed the shipping issues to Europe made watching this totally worth it. I'm wearing a pair of awesome socks right now, but canceled the subscription after the first two pairs because it just wasn't feasible.
So are you getting a new subscription?
@@mikafizz1022 you get a commission?
You can keep the subscription and give the socks away as gifts to people and the homeless
Until two decades ago 'content moderation' was controlled by TV, radio and newspaper editors. Speech has become immeasurably freer as a result of the emergence of social media, because content moderation is far less powerful. Since so many more people have a voice, it is also far more noticeable and elicits far greater fury.
The unique problems of social media - from bot swarms to conspiracy theories targeted for maximum believability straight at our biggest psychological weaknesses - are the real threat to free speech we face today.
thank you for actually just putting out facts and not trying to force your opinion on untimely matters no one cares about. Education is what people need
I like both Hank and Elon and I don’t understand why either of them wouldn’t like each other.
Hank’s full personality is being interested and caring about people and society as a whole. Musk hates people and has no care for society as a whole. They’re literally polar opposites. The only reason you like musk is because he’s constantly failed upwards and somehow temporarily become the richest man in the world.
The worst thing that could happen to me, a normal Twitter user, could be that it gets harder to follow the people I like with all of the chaos/drama. At the end it’s no big deal for me, I could follow them in another platform. I do feel bad about all of the workers being laid off or being forced to return to the office.
Why feel bad? Jobs don't exist to make people feel good, they exist to get a 'job' done. Firing workers who drag down a business is efficiency.
Uh what about selling your user data? like the bank info you used for verification? If you aren't verified you are basically shadow banned meaning people like Hank and John will never ever see your comments. What if they sold your data to Russian hackers? Elon hasn't said that "exactly" But the current side show shows he doesn't understand why there are guide rails for how "the public square" operates.
I'm a brand social media manager. We have tens of thousands of hard won followers built up over years and the thought of that all turning to ashes overnight is sobering to me to say the least.
brother, there has been chaos and drama on twitter WAYYY before elon musk ever took over twitter. It's also not hard to follow people you like..you can literally just search for them lmao
@@ScribWorld The difference is normally the chaos and drama on twitter is not related to twitter. Twitter is normally the medium of the drama, this time it's the subject. The concern is that, with all the firings and resignations and advertiser unfriendly things occurring, the entire website disappears or lots of people abandon it, and we all need to move to reddit or tumblr or whatever, and everyone picks a different site to move to and it all gets scattered across the internet, instead of conveniently in one place.
I would respectfully propose this question: What should an open and public online square look like?
CHAOS is not a business plan advertisers like
Elon will almost definitely watch this video and we can only hope he gets some awesome socks
I'm imagining, the second Elon puts on a pair of Awesome Socks, he gets overcome with the power of awesomeness and all the bad vibes just leave his body.
@@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721 we can only hope..
The fact that he's not made any changes to the terms of service is kind of a feint, a convenient truth that he can quote at the media and advertisers.
The massive job cuts at Twitter almost certainly means the content moderation team is now smaller than it was, which means that their ability to enforce the TOS is reduced. I would also wager (and this is entirely speculation) that what moderation force remains is driven by internal pressures, i.e. threat of dismissal, to *strictly* remove certain content whilst ignoring other content entirely.
So the same pressure they had before, just with a different and less intense slant?
@@shawncothran6337 Why are you under the assumption that it'll be a less intense slant? Who's to say they won't just be given a new but equally as intense slant in which to act upon.
@@domoisawsome123 because there's no reason to assume that, unlike the well known reputation that Twitter deservedly built for themselves over the last decade... In other words: it can get better but certainly it's not gonna get any worse.
He can also run the company into the ground, but IMO that's already a win for society
@@luc8254 Twitter certainly had some bias with how they ran things, but I don't see how someone like Elon Musk would have any less.
@@domoisawsome123 Less bias is built in to the changes, that's why some people are complaining.
man I'm missing out on Twitter. I can never get it to work on any of my devices. Even my laptop refuses to display it...
Twitter was always largely about the masochistic/sadistic urge to argue with angry strangers. So much that cancelation of people has been raging for a while. There are some good Ted talks about cancel culture. They all mention Twitter.
Before Twitter, cancel culture was just called boycotting if you were a normie, and 'protecting the public' if you were a politician making laws that screwed someone's business into non-viability.
@@willchurch8376 Yeah, that is what I don't get, the people complaining about "cancel culture" feels like they have no idea that it has existed since literally the first human step foot on Earth, it is literally called "making a social outcast".
@@razi_man To be fair, I think it's been since the second human. You know, one to be the outcast and one to make the outcast feel that way.
I am glad you managed to put this into words! I _am_ concerned about the fact that private companies have a lot of control over political discourse (he says, while responding on RUclips) as well. But I think what Elon missed is that the solution to that probably is not "a different private moderator who is TOTALLY a good guy" but instead probably collective/public ownership of the platform.
It's a really complicated problem. I personally am partial to Mastodon - Lots of decentralised servers that all communicate together, which makes the impact of any one absent or inept moderation team not spread so far. On the other hand, Twitter has something which Mastodon doesn't - Discovering people (and, conversely, promoting your brand to people you don't know) is much easier on Tw than Mastodon precisely because of the "Algorithm" that we've come to hate.
I have a lot of mixed feelings. For now, I think I'm going to slowly rein in my usage of centralised social media, though. This whole debacle with Elon has shown me that if anything can be owned by one person, it's not safe to use
Twitter has been from day one a platform with consolidated ownership. It has always put a bad taste in my mouth, because it needed to advertise itself as a new form of communication, when all it is is words again, but with extra spelling errors. If you fell for the Twitter hype, you're an idiot, because you signed up for a media platform with consolidated ownership. And if it takes Elon Musk becoming the prime shareholder to wake people up to the fact that Twitter is dumb in a world with an over abundance of ways to talk to people, then maybe it's a good thing they finally got the clue.
Let me spell it out for anyone who still hasn't gotten it; Twitter doesn't matter. Only Twitter users think Twitter matters, and they're all wrong. Twitter doesn't control popular opinion. Twitter doesn't moderate political votes. Twitter only matters to Twitter users, and none of them matter because their biggest concern in life is _"what if Twitter moderators are secretly influencing my thoughts!?"_ That's fucking crazy, and you're all hilarious, but harmless idiots.
@@ladymercy5275 objectively, Twitter and other social media platforms do influence public opinion. You may disagree but there is a multi billion dollar industry, which literally powers most of the free internet, betting that you are wrong.
I agree that Twitter moderators currently do not care. But they could. And that power dynamic makes me uncomfortable. Twitters main incentive is to get people to remain on the site and they can and do manipulate what you see, through the use of their recommendation algorithm, to achieve that end. They’re not doing it to b evil, and they’re not intentionally showing you bad things, but it does happen - and claiming otherwise is just factually incorrect.
I agree that people at large were willing to overlook problems like this for the sake of convenience and novelty; however, that so many people did makes me think that your position of “wow, everyone is dumb and I am right” might not be the best one.
@@ladymercy5275 try a less inflammatory discourse, especially if you're gonna be wrong regarding social, psycho and pedagological well-known _facts_
I won't lie and I know this sounds bad, I trust Elon more than I trust the public
To be fair to Musk, if you look at some of the conversations that came out from discovery making Twitter into an open protocol instead of a close system.
A lot of these people have never been muted for speaking the truth, and it really shows.
You almost got to the point most of us fear. Its not just that an individual makes the decisions, its that the policy is interpreted by an individual. If "hateful speech" is left vague so that it can encompass any new strain of ism or phobia, then the individual is able and within their rights to ban everything that personally upsets just them
Exactly right
This is the reason I find it funny that Elon has control of Twitter. For years, the left has cheered on the destruction of the spirit of freedom of speech by corporate giants in charge of the largest political forums on the planet, all the while proclaiming, correctly, that the letter of the law only protects us from the government. They act as if it's desirable that corporations can sever your loudest voice from the public sphere, at a time when everyone else with popular views has instant access. If oppressive regimes of the past controlled the internet the way the left does today, things would have changed much more slowly, or not at all. Whether or not you think the left is oppressive, that's true. Now Elon is gonna shove the left's glee back down it's throat, and it's Trump 2.0. He's a total narcissistic idiot who, to be totally honest, likely doesn't give a shit about freedom of speech. Thanks in part to the left and cancel culture, he's now popular.
My thoughts exactly & this guy in the video gave me the vibe that he believes a lot of things are wrong think & that speech is violence
We had no problem making a distinction for the decades leading up to social media. It's not vague and hardly subjective. It's the dictionary. The previous board encouraged the redefinition of words. THAT is what you should fear the most.
to be fair, in regards to speech i'm with elon. Hate speech is basically speech you dont like
And speech isnt LiTeRaL ViOlEnCe
I'm glad you made this video. Thanks Hank!
No matter who you are, there is an audience of people that think exactly like you. If you can reach everyone in the world then you will reach an audience of people whom you can relate to and know exactly what they want.
"... twitter was transparent ..." (said just before 2:46)
Um, nope, you still don't understand the group of people that were upset with Twitter. Because Twitter was NEVER transparent. If they were transparent, then every time there was a twit that was blocked or an account that was suspended or terminated there would be at least one line item that said something like "... action was taken because of ..." and then there would be a list of one or more twits that were causative.
And if it were remotely fair, there would be fair warning and not something dumb like three strikes and your out where all three could happen before the first warning was even given.
Now some of them might have been open, but far too many were just shut down with no reason given.
Did we not trust the decision makers? Absolutely not. Would transparency have helped them? Absolutely so.
Their snobbish arrogance didn't help matters either, that just helps make us normal people feel smug about their ouster.
You're a great guy and you usually get it, but on this one, back to the books! (You did finally get "free speech" right though. Speech is only free when offensive speech is free)
USERS are the product. Content moderation is how you cultivate that product.
Only 12 days old and it aged like whole milk.
i would like to point out that i hate twitter because of the drama and the reality tv feel of it as i am against that kind of drama filled hate as i think it undermines us as a society to be hateful and judgmental
But e-drama is 90% of the internet. The rest is a bubble of people safely making G-rated content.
It’s kinda funny to me hearing all this… I’ve been working through listening to the backlog of Dear Hank & John in chronological order, and there’s an episode in early 2017 I listened to yesterday where you guys talk about how Trmp’s presidency is/was less about politics and more about “entertainment” AKA that same “reality tv chaos” vibe.
Years later, here we are seeing a very similar fervor toward the shift in Twitter’s culture and its greater cultural relevancy, all because it’s immediately pivoted from a communal outlet for aggregating information to a legitimate source of messy “entertainment” for many people based on the actions of one man with no regard for how that shift will affect the mental and emotional and psychological state of Twitter’s “citizens” (as you have in the past referred to these platforms and pseudo countries based on size and impact).
The Trmp playbook is being repurposed by yet another bad faith actor, surprise surprise. The worrying thing I keep wondering is, what is all of this Twitter messiness really distracting us from instead? What larger social and economic and public policy issues are we completely missing or disregarding or not allowing proper air time due to the absolute cluster that is Twitter dot com at current?
Okay that’s all. Again Happy Friday Hank!
Could not have put it better myself.
Watching this video, all I could think about was how much this resembled America's obsession with Twitter during the Trump administration.
It's hard to feel like our recent advancements in science and technology haven't put us on a runaway train of maladaptive behavior.
A few days later he has already said: the business is failing.
Imagine making this judgment a few days into the purchase.
I think I enjoy the incredulous reactions I get from people when I tell them that I've never had Twitter, Facebook, tiktok, etc. far more than I would enjoy actually having them.
I only have snap, discord, and youtube xD
@UCvfQJXHY0CGAaRvfmtrYF5A honestly, fair
Why brag about this? I’ve truly never understood people’s need to point out this sort of thing. Like people who brag about not watching TV. So bloody what?
+
Yeah, me too!
I feel like it's expected that people would flock to twitter in the short term, people might be curious to see Twitter under new management, and some people might feel liberated because they think they can trust the people in charge.
I think the bigger question is whether that will hold in the long term.
You've got it wrong, he has changed the important policies.
1. Don't censor politics
2. Don't ban people for life, especially for a politically biased and bs reason.
Those kinds of people could be convinced to kill another for political bias too. That is for anyone who is so far lost in polarisation.
A smooth transition to selling socks
3:41 You went over that so quickly I nearly missed it but I am really happy about this! Thank you so much! I had a few troubles in the past with the awesome socks shipping from the US and handling the fees and taxes here in Germany. E.g. my July, August and September socks are still stuck somewhere on the way but just received my October socks. When will the shipping from the EU begin?
More people checking out the site is to be expected as Twitter is in the news for all its problems. But he didn't say more people were participating or talk about retention time or anything else important. He's just picking numbers that look good to try and help a business that seems by all metrics to be failing.
I've only been followed by 2 bots on Twitter. I didn't use it before. It's too hard to follow threads.
This aged well 😂
Thankfully, I'm not on Twitter, so I'm just watching this dumpster fire from the sidelines. But the influence that big companies like Twitter have over online content is definitely concerning.
But Hank, I've gotta know what John's punishment will be!
I'm so far from twitter that I didn't even know there was a dumpster fire until reading these comments. All I know about twitter is that it has a blue bird logo and the number of characters allowed in a tweet was doubled sometime in the past ten years. There are so many more important things to be concerned about, like what flavor toothpaste the neighbor uses. Twitter doesn't have much influence on people who choose to not use it -- just like facebook. If someone is getting burned by the dumpster fire it's their own choice.
Has there ever been discussion of adding knee-high socks as an option for the awesome socks club? I would wear the hell out of those!
No, it’s about THE FIRST FREAKING AMENDMENT !
It was about the decisions. The implementation of the policies was not the spirit of the policies. One side was stifled while the other flourished.
Algorithms boosted some people while it punished others.