Restored Pioneer SX-828 vs. Working Sansui 2000A: Which Receiver is Best?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- What's the best early-70's receiver for you? This video features two classic receivers from the early 70's made by two of the most popular companies, Pioneer and Sansui. I talk about my extensive restoration of the Pioneer SX-828 and show the various features of this receiver. I compare its features and aesthetics to the Sansui 2000A. I feature side-by-side sound clips from listening tests. I also compare their noise levels without music. Finally, I talk about the two receivers and the results of the listening tests.
Listening tests feature music by Boston, The Beach Boys, Rickie Lee Jones, Metallica, The Cars, and Steely Dan. (I originally included music by The Shins, but I removed it to avoid the video being partially blocked. I've revised the chapters to reflect the change.)
Chapters:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:13 Pioneer SX-828 Restoration
00:07:37 Tour of the Pioneer SX-828
00:16:34 Comparison of Look and Features of the SX-828 and Sansui 2000A
00:20:12 Music for Listening Tests
00:21:34 Listening Tests Setup
00:21:54 "More Than a Feeling" by Boston
00:26:53 "Wouldn't It Be Nice" by The Beach Boys
00:29:26 "Danny's All-Star Joint" by Rickie Lee Jones
00:31:25 "Master of Puppets" by Metallica
00:37:20 "Just What I Needed" by The Cars
00:39:59 "Babylon Sisters" by Steely Dan
00:44:44 Discussion of the Receivers
00:53:13 Noise Level Comparison
00:58:19 Final Thoughts 
Наука
I picked up an Sx828 today for $150. Lights up but no sound. Probably something to do with the 1/4 inch of dust on the inside. I am so excited to have picked it up from the original owner. She took great care of it.
I really appreciate comparisons like this. I know the drawbacks of RUclips compression, but A/B comparisons are still valid given equal exisiting limitations. It's also extra useful hearing music that's lived in my head for decades instead of royalty-free garbage that's practically unlistenable under any circumstances.
You're one of the rare channels who compares RESTORED AND PUT BACK TO ORIGINAL SPECIFICATION vintage devices, I always find pointless to compares vintage audio gear as they are found, because the way they perform will be very different, even for 2 identical models, because it depends on so many factors that they WILL be differences between them, so comparing 2 different brands and models is pointless, the only correct way to do it is the way you did it, having 2 restored, put back to spec units.
I'm a certified electronic technician with 45 years of experience and I restore, repair and even rebuild vintage audio for a living. And I know 2 identical receiver, amplifier, and other, can sound really different depending on how many hours they have, which repair was done before, the parts that were used, and many other factors. I'm glad someone did a comparison like it should be done. So for a better comparison, you'll have to restore the sansui, back to it's original comparison, and don’t forget the pioneer is way more powerful than the sansui, so it's normal for it to have more noise when you turn to volume way up without signal.
Sorry for the bad English, it's not my language.
Edit: the major difference between these 2 circuit is that the sansui is capacitor coupled amplifier, meaning that there's 1 high value capacitor between the output transistors and the speaker output, while the pioneer is direct coupled, meaning that there's nothing between the output transistors and the speaker output, besides low value resistor, (0.47 Ohms)which doesn't affect the sound much. Direct coupled tend to have less distortion as capacitor, no matter how good they are, add distortion in the circuit. Some prefer the sound of it, some prefer direct coupled. Another famous capacitor coupled amplifier would be the quad 303, which is also, a semi push pull design, like the mcintosh 250 (transformer coupled)and the harman kardon citation 12 (direct coupled)
Sorry for the very long comment. I'm a massive audio nerd, so I thought some people would appreciate the details.
Edit2: I've serviced many 2252, and they are the sweet spot in that line of receiver, they do have a very distict, rich sound and they sound great, less dry than 2270, but not as rich as 2220b. As for your pre-amp, it seems like a power supply issue, so I would check the signal and zener, to see if there is a problem, then move on to the transistors in the psu section. The sansui, you can go up to 3.3/4.7KkuF without problem for the filter capacitor. You can also increase the value of the coupling capacitor to 10k to 12k without any problems. I forgot to say that it is also a semi push pull, which, like other I named above, use 2 NPN transistors in the final output stage, instead of the more modern NPN/PNP set up like the pioneer SX-838 or the marantz 22 serie.
I was stuck on the old Fisher's 400/500c/500b for years and then went to Pioneer SX780...then got a Sansui 4000x for 50 dollars and love it. Now I am hearing the Pioneer SX1010 is the "one to get" but pricy and others say "SX790 is the same or better than 1010 and cheaper"....so the search goes on...great video....really good tech work..
if you like bass the 1010 is a better choice it seems to be deeper and punch better in my 1010
As the other person said, the SX-1010 have a very good sound when restored and despite being more expensive, it's the one I would buy between the 2.
Since first seeing this review I now have a Sansui 661 and pioneer sx-737. I also have 771 and Sherwood S-7200. All of them are beautiful ❤
I don't care what others say. I always appreciate a good head to head classic receiver comparison. Especially with good song choices. Nice job!
You said it! Thanks!
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi I just did my own comparison of the SX-828 and 2000x and I’ll say they are awfully close sonically but the main difference is the bass in the 2000x. Both have a warm lush sound but the bass on the SX-828 is tighter and more well defined. The 2000x sounds more tube like as its cap coupled.
@@stpierreorama Spot on in regards to the 2000X. I have a 2000 and 4000, no letters, both are very tube sounding, the 4000 has an incredible airiness about it and simply sounds fantastic with my Zu Omen Dirty Weekends. As far as the bass, streaming using an EQ can tighten up the bass. Personally, I like what the Sansui does by simply using the tone controls, bass boost and filters. I have owned nothing in regards to modern gear that can do what the Sansui can sound wise. The Sansui 4000 is at the heart of my system.
@@michaelwright1602 The new amps look and feel like early 2000s DVD players with few exceptions(Leak). I will always cherish my 60-70s Pioneer and Sansui. But I do prefer modern speakers. Wharfedale seems to have good synergy with these old amps and they match cosmetically. I’ve never felt the need to use an EQ with the Sansui 2000X matched with Denton 80th anniversary bookshelves. Such a perfect setup for my small kitchen and dinning room area, They sound so much bigger than they are. It’s all you need for most indoor living spaces. Maybe I’ll get the Lintons for the basement.
@@stpierreorama Sounds like a nice setup you have going.
The sound...I'm using the WiiM Pro as a streamer, and running that through a PS Audio GainCell DAC/Analog preamp to the AUX in on the Sansui.
Everyone laughs when I say WiiM, but this silly little inexpensive box paired with this gear sounds better than my $800 Pi2 Mercury v2.
The secret sauce is the WiiM onboard EQ. It works on everything you stream, and really takes recordings to new levels. I like Blues and Jazz, along with classic roc, and that EQ just elevates everything. It will make a rough recording sound very good, and take an exceptional recording to new heights.
And the Zu speakers simply magnifies everything with its huge soundstage and airy midrange thanks to the Sansui.
Maybe pick up a WiiM Pro and give it a spin. I thought it was all hype, not so, this stupid thing delivers.
I have an sx828 running into a set of JBL100's - this is beautiful amp with a rich sound - my vinyl is so authentic and warm, this is 10 out of 10 for me.
It's a wonderful receiver. I put tons of work into it, so it should last another 50 years. I gave it to my son, so I expect he'll still be getting joy from it when he's my age. ❤️
My dad gave me his Sansui 2000X and sp2500 speakers. I have never listened to the amp because I really do like my 2 subs and 7.1 configuration I have going.
This is a really good comparison video and it really wants to hook up the old Sansui and give her a listen. But as far as comparison the liveliness and or the warm sound was certainly nicer on the Sansui. Each of them add their own sound qualities to the music but the song Just What I Needed really showed it.
Cool video, I only just found your channel, thanks for putting in this effort.
You are right on with the warmth sounding (house sound) on the Sansui as the pioneer. Having grown up with owning Pioneers in the early 70's (iam 66 now) and reliving my past and refurb-ing 100's of all 70's type receivers and amps - now being retired and having electronics schooling back in the 70's I have spent many many hours repairing rebuilding and re-selling- still owning quite a few- my latest venture has been tube amps over the last 3-4 years - I really love the sound and been thru many of them also and finding I love the SET lower powered over the push-pulls. My favorite is my 300B I own 2 - one from a kit and the other from Skunkies youtube channel - her tube amp is the best! you should really consider building her amp! And keep your channel alive we need more folks like yourself on here supporting our hobby!!!
I'd like to build a big SET. The subject of OPTs merits further investigation. Make my own? Edcor? Hammond? Vintage? Before that, though, I think I want to build a tube preamp following Morgan Jones's design. I'm really happy with the Bevois Valley with Dynaco Z565's. It would be nice to have a tube preamp capable of at least 2 Vrms output to pair with the BV. And thanks for the encouraging words! I've only been at this stuff for a relatively short time, so I'm still in single digits with tube amp builds. Similarly with solid state restorations.
great listening choices! beautiful receivers
wow, it's great to be able to restore great vintage receivers like these! Great job!
Thanks!
Keep up the good fight my man👍. In terms of vintage audio reviews , tips and commentary, your channel seems the most down to earth .none pretentious.
Thanks!
Hi from the UK. Great channel, love your down to earth approach.
Thanks!
Amazing work, salute you on this intricate work. Subscribed
Thanks and thanks!
I just purchased a Sansui 661. From what I've researched and heard, the 661 is a solid build, great sounding receiver.
It arrives Saturday! Can't wait!
Sound clips matter. They provide a glimpse of the sound the speaker or receiver will provide.
The XX1 series tends to fly under the radar. Might be the last of the 70's Sansui receivers that can be found for reasonable prices. I hope it brings you joy!
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Yep,my 551 is fantastic.Beautiful Sansui sound.She purrs like a kitten.
I like your presentation style and subscribed. Best of luck with your channel growth goals!
Thanks!
I have an SX 828 I bought it when I was in the service so I’m partial to its sound
What I heard from the SX828 is more reverb and the music was more punchy and dynamic whereas the Sansui was had a more even compressed sound. That said I like them both.
Please direct me to places were I can get replacement light bulbs!
My receivers pots and switch’s need lots of cleaning. The box was last sealed by Pioneer 50yrs ago😀
Interesting comparison. I enjoy your videos. I especially like your repair/restore videos. Your channel should grow. I was able to see Dr. Amar Bose speak on several occasions. My favorite quote. "If it were easy, it wouldn't be worth doing!" As a side note; I have several vintage components, the Pioneer SX 990 being one of them. Mine has the same thump. Thanks!
Thanks, and you're welcome!
Love the old school look of the 2000A but I am still partial to the silver face sx-780 I bought from you a few weeks ago. LOVE it and its sounds amazing!!!!
That's great to hear! It is a beauty!
I pay $80 bucks for my Sansui 2000 and it sounds amazing
Phono stage test? I'm in!
I have the 2000 sitting here, but the 4000 is in the rack, so I am going to test it. I know, not fair, but it has been a long day... And there is a protection mode on the 4000, no thumps.
Ok! This is on my Sansui 4000, no letters, built in 1970, paid $200 for and serviced myself. TT is the Mofi StudioDeck, using stock Mofi cables that came with the TT. TT is on and spinning. Speakers are the Zu Omen Dirty Weekends, circa 2017, 95 sensitivity. Receiver is on Phono Stage 1. Bass boost is on, filters are off, just how I listen to it at lower volumes. And yes, I do occasionally turn off the bass boost. I ran this test 3 times, all with the same results. Both speakers tested.
Volume knob position at zero is 7 o'clock, full volume is at 5 o'clock.
Test TIME!
I am reading the ambient noise in the room, using a DB meter on my iPhone. Whole house dehumidifier is running, nothing I can do about that. Everything else is off that makes any noise.
Normal room level was 47 +/- 2 db. This was in the center of the room, and I also read at the speaker, power on, TT spinning, with the volume at zero, same reading, 47 +/- 2 db. So, there is no noise coming out of the speakers at this point with the TT running, receiver set to Phono 1, and the volume at zero.
The volume on the Sansui 4000, set at my normal listening level of roughly 10 o'clock, it read 48 db +/- 2 at the speaker cone. So, a 1 db increase.
Half volume, the DB meter read 48 db +/- 2. No change.
Full volume! And trust me, I have never, nor will I ever go there, this 4000 has nothing but raw power under the hood.
Full volume, 60 db +/- 2.
This thing is virtually dead silent at my listening levels. Same with the FM tuner, dead silent between tracks and what not. This thing is simply a beast. She ain't pretty, but when you turn her on... She is like that "Girl Nextdoor". She is cute, but when she shows up at your door in a trench coat and a can of whip cream...
The Sansui is not going anywhere.
I recently passed on a 5000 (can't remember if it had letters). Condition issues. Plus, I had already bought a 1000 from the same guy. Still working on getting it up and running.
Sad to see after a week's work the stereo light is stuck on!
Wow, I admire your persistence in the learning journey….Shad - AudioLUVin (Pismo Beach, CA.)
Nice overview of the Pioneer. I have a 2000x that will be my first foray into vintage electronics repair, wish me luck! If I remember the DC offset is out of spec.
The DC offset is pretty easy to adjust, so you'll be fine there. The output is capacitor coupled, so if you have a DC voltage at the speaker terminals, then the capacitor is leaking DC current. And that's bad. Good luck!
Sansui has better separation and better dynamics but also a more in your face sound and somehow less depth (front to back)
The "speakers"make the "main" difference in sound.
Great!!! In your opinion/experience do you prefeer the Sansui xx1? Or the 2000a?
I mean, the sound.
Sorry for my english.
Thanks!
I've never had an xx1 to compare with, sorry!
Pioneer sounds Best.
I just got one can u restore it for me
Which one? Where do you live?
I would take a Sansui over a pioneer any day of the week.
Easy. The Sansui sounds better on the bass and mids while the Pioneer sounds better on the highs.
54 watts
We're both right, but I guess you're more right. From the service manual, 60 wpc at 1 kHz and 54 wpc in the range of 20 Hz to 20 kHz.
Very nice, but not an even comparison. Lower level Sansui.
True, but I don't have a Sansui 5000A. :(
why did you change all resistors, smal transistors etc ? wasting of time and money
The argument for replacing resistors is that new, metal film resistors produce less noise, are more stable, and less flammable than old, carbon composite resistors. Given that few, if any, old resistors that weren't charred were out of spec, I would not do that again. I didn't go into this in the video, but after replacing passive components, the receiver still produced loud popping noises indicative of failing small transistors. Rather than track down which those were, I opted to replace all the ones known to go bad. For this unit, that's most of them.
There are a few of the transistors that are known to be noisy. Not all. Researching is the key. That same research would have told you the pinouts are different because pretty much everyone mentions it. Sorry, not trying to be mean but you could have saved yourself a lot of time and frustration.