I am a woman and left wing, I had been back in the day a supporter of gamer gate, but yes, I have moved on since that time. I am actually surprised to hear that people still rally under that banner. Like mentioned in the video, the goal was reached. But sure, I stopped consuming games journalism for the most part, thus I don't really care any more.
The purpose of defending gamergate in the year twenty-twenty is the same reason for defending any historical event from being retroactively molded into something that it wasn't. Whether that side won or not is irrelevant when the losing side years later still holds sway of public opinion and uses that to paint their old enemies as what they weren't.
I think it's a stretch to say Gamergate was JUST about "ethics in game journalism." The backlash against Anita Sarkesian and other attempts to imbue gaming with left wing identity politics was very strong at the time this happened and there was a lot of overlap between complaints about game journalism and complaints about that. While some of the "incels mad at women entering a traditionally male space" thing you mention might have been going on, It seems at least as much a criticism of the feminist influence on game development as an attack on women (feminism and women are not the same thing). You're right that it only got so big because of the media trying to cover it up and that the media's claim that it was misogyny made a lot of people actually misogynistic.
Homie. Your acting like the journs thats why. Your not in it for gaming your in for propaganda(journalists were for money). You cant be suprised when they treat you like a outliner for it.
I think what got me pissed was the 48-hour cycle of "Gamers Are Dead" articles. For decades, gamers have been maligned as violent, sexist degenerate children by the mainstream media, and many of us remember what it was like to be bullied in school for having this hobby. To have games journalists, who we *THOUGHT* would be representing us, stab us in the collective back felt devastating. I knew almost nothing about the Zoe post at the time, but those articles cut really deep.
They really can't decide on whether we're terrifying murderous rapists or weak worthless losers. Doublethink and delusions are the only legs they can stand on.
@@huuuuuuh2057 It depends of how they make the Law and Order SVU episode, honestly. The whole damn thing was a mess, holding people accountable welp they threw a whole 52 card deck's worth a reverse and draw 4's. Everytime people proved the corruption they made sure to swerve the blame the people pointing it out. It legit took a suicide for people to do "maybe she's a trash person this whole time?"
@@kurokamo2 Because a lot of people didn't know and during that time if you even called her out on anything wrong you had so many people fight for her. So people gave up trying for justice. It's so sad...
I find the idea of identifying as a ‘gamer’ to be a shallow and unhelpful characterization that doesn’t really convey anything about yourself to begin with. The farthest I would go would be to call myself someone who happens to play video games
A lot of people today don't remember how GamerGate actually went down. I've seen several folks calling it out as a misogynistic movement. These people aren't aware that there was a flame war over journalists blanket vilifying gamers as a homogeneous hateful entity. It's a complicated mess because there are extreme misogynist folks that were, or are involved. Which makes the people who are/were involved who aren't misogynist seem invalidated. I think there is reason to defend GamerGate, or less defend, and more correct the facts. Because some people are trying to rewrite history. As to why it's important, I think it's the whole thing about - those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. South Korea is doing pretty good with Covid by the way. We all should have copied their model. Speaking of history.
Anyone who calls it a 'harassment campaign' or 'misogynist movement' needs to get slapped in the face with an FBI report that completely and entirely exonerates gamergate and in fact heavily indicts the antis.
@@MJesDK GG is like Comicsgate after it. You see people actively involved in corruption and nepotism of a media and them blaming the people whom are supposed to BUY said media when they call them out. "Oh, we're not BAD you're bad for calling us bad first." That's how their logic basically worked, because they get called out it is suddenly an attack on their whole existence. Instead of properly debating they run, yell, get hate mobs(doxxing) and or try to get people banned. What's bad it fucking worked because of how they abused people's empathy, their empathy made them useful idiots.
@@ExeErdna The funny thing is. If Zoe and her ilk just admitted that there was indeed a conflict of interest, you know, like actual adults. It would have been over in a few days and none would be the wiser. Instead, they instigated an internet-wide mass censorship, flagged and blamed as many unrelated people as possible, and to top it all off, colluded and conspired with various gaming press sites and journos to collectively give a middle finger to all gamers, 98% of which don't even know or care who these people are. It's one of the largest examples of the Streisand effect. Gamers accused them of conspiring together to run a narrative, and in response......they conspired together to run a narrative.
@@ValerioRhys You gotta love how humans are. Instead of taking an L people would have maybe respected them for taking. They basically changed the world and became hated for something SO minor and forgettable.
Was mainly a sympathetic bystander To me it's less that GG won, but was able to make the presses victory pyrrhic. Like many such social structures it often isn't the opposition, but the drain of unaddressed discontent that the conflict with said opposition has left them unable to handle that does them in.
For me, video games have always been a tool that helped me get through hard times, one that my own abusive parents would often take from me as a way of expressing their rage (caused by a number of serious psychological and relationship problems and the additional stress of raising an unwanted child) and desperate desire for control. Gamers as a group had always welcomed social outcasts and people with issues, and even though misogyny existed, it really never defined most gamer communities. I've played games with girls many times online and off. Then one day I started encountering very angry, aggressive and abusive people who insisted that my struggles and disabilities meant nothing because of my race and gender. One of them tore apart the community I'd spent years in by unfairly banning hundreds of people for obscure violations of political correctness. She often held mock trials for her victims, encouraging others in the chat to jeer at them and then banning them regardless of whether they showed any remorse. I vividly remember the time a guy I'd chatted with for years was banned for saying "The Lion King for Sega Genesis gave me PTSD". A lot of people had similar experiences at the time of running into crazy authoritarian cyberbullies identifying as feminists in one place or another. That atmosphere was why much of Gamergate had a notable antifeminist slant from day 1, and I don't think it's fair or productive that the "crazy people came into my community and started smashing up the place" aspect never got a proper hearing in the public eye. If it had, I'm convinced the online Alt-Right would never have become such an influential (and dangerous) part of the American conservative sphere.
But the entire reason that started GamerGate was doxxing of some game dev under the guise of a breach of journalistic ethics, which was proven to be unfounded. That's why it was demonized in the first place. The death threats and journalistic hit pieces didn't help to resolve this quickly. The legitimate cause was marred by that inciting incident.
The only gamergater I've heard of still hasn't changed his opinion, and he was (and still is) NOT a bigot, and still anti-sjw. So what gamergaters are this alt right thing? I'm not saying they never had misogyny, but it never seemed to be the focus if at all. Plus the misogyny was really just calling out a bad person who happened to be a woman.
I didn't know gamergate still exists in a capacity worth bringing up seriously, but I'd gladly align with it in 2020. I don't use twitter or other social media, so maybe I'm not taking to the slactivism seriously enough, but with the friends I do discuss politics with and the things I do coordinate, I aim to explain the state of the world without bias and coordinate on how to make it better. Presently, that's by staying inside, staying safe, and preparing for the worst, no matter how tempting it is to clean the streets yourself. Violence is a last resort, and once it begins, ideas are no longer valid.
It's not gonna happen for a fucking while. Last time was the results of decades of shitty work from journalists, it's gonna take at least another decade before anything similiar is reached.
There is heaps of wisdom in the snark but they he goes and calls trump and biden rapists... One of them sniffs and handles kids the other said his own daughter was date-able.
Out of convenience, habit or plain ignorance sure - but the very foundation of critical race theory is that individualism doesn't exist and is a canard used by 'altright nazi whities' to be beaten into a pulp. Which is fucking bullshit from where i'm standing - and i'm from possibly the most social democrat (and in my biased opinion BEST) country in the world, and no it's not even in the Americas.
A lot of the "gamers hate women" is actually just a misrepresentation of gamers complaining about badly written characters who use "female" as an excuse for bad writing. "You don't like my mary sue? That means you hate women."
It's not so simple because we are living with a history of countless Gary Stews that existed long before the trend of Mary Sues. Yet there's not that many people complaining about the Gary Stews. Mostly people just recognize it for what it is. It's escapism in the form of absurd power fantasy. A staple of our stories since the Greek gods. With Super Man, One Punch Man, and the like there is no shortage of amazing Gary Stews.
@@spacedoohicky " Yet there's not that many people complaining about the Gary Stews." That's how I know to not take you seriously. Also, did you called Superman and OPA Gary Stews?
@@Warptenlololol A few people complain about Gary Stews. It's very rare though. Not near as popular as complaining about Mary Sues when we consider how many Gary Stews have existed. It was a staple of 80's, and 90's action films after all. And sure a few people have complained, but not nearly relative to the amount of all those Gary Stews.
@@spacedoohicky Gary Stu is an outright boring concept that doesn't happen nearly as often as a Mary Sue, because apparently people don't understand that women are also capable of the "Hero's Journey".
I just recently found your RUclips Channel because I was trying to convince people that Shadowrun was better than cyberpunk and now I'm watching all your videos and having a great time!
Going through some of your videos, I'm impressed by how consistently you have takes I almost completely agree with. I've only been watching you for a few days but you're one of my top three RUclipsrs already.
Burger, If we can't fix something as tangential and low stakes as game journalism, how do you expect to tackle something bigger with way more money and powerful players? GG isn't over. GG is the vanguard. And until we turn the tide there, we cannot hope to turn the tide elsewhere.
@Stirgid Lanathiel And you disagree, i assume ? Also there is such a thing as momentum, that is built up by small victories. Suggesting you shouldn't start fixing the things you can actually impact, before tackling things that are much harder to crack, honestly, seems nonsensical to me, but whatever works for you i guess.
@@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 I think you have seriously misunderstood the idea of "political capital". Doing things exhausts your political capital, not enhances it. If that were really the case, and doing things allowed you to do more things, someone would have already done all the things.
Thank god for the internet. Right, Burger? I mean...the gaming industry and community was all unicorns, puppies, and Crispy Creme as a presentation/display.....now, it is a sh*tshow. LOL
Gamergate was supposed to have collapsed and been forgotten by now. Instead the entire culture war became a thing and the arena has been on fire since 2014. Hatred of wokeness *is* majority opinion. The journos are dying, half the sites are bankrupt, even Hollywood is dead while "far right" youtubers are growing exponentially despite the desperate attempts by youtube itself to censor them. Ghostbusters lost with the entire media defending it, Joker won with the entire media ralling against it. I don't disavow, I celebrate. Gamergate won.
Pineapple on pizza is delicious. Dislike. Also, "left-wing good, right-wing bad" logic detected (black and white thinking). Climate change is more of a nuanced issue too, it's not a looming abrupt apocalypse at all. Talking of systemic racism without looking into hard stats first (black people are _not_ harmed by police more than any other people there - just look up the numbers). You used to be more critically-minded than this, Burger.
Wait. All these reasons that worrying about corrupt gaming journalism isn't a relevant problem in 2020, didn't most of these apply in 2014? I'm reasonably certain the climate or political challenges weren't that massively different.
11:47 Please i want to put a pin on that thought if i may: The gaming press is still in a rather questionable relationship with videogame developer but mostly publisers. We may say that we who enjoy games don't listen to Video game journalists, but at the same time many publishers or developers will only listen to journalists and not the player-base creating a rather closed in bubble or cyst of feedback that than leads or even led to today's gaming mainstream "AAA" bland-a-thon that is thrown up with clockwork precision to the market. =s Do understand that this problem is not entirely solved. please and thank you.
The systemic racism in those United States is a minor problem compared to the systemic sexism. The gender sentencing gap is multitudes wider than the racial sentencing gap. In fact Non-Hispanic African-American Women receive much less punishment for the same crime as a Non-Hispanic White-American male.
Despite this movement of hate and divisiveness gained ground, and sadly still is gaining ground within gaming; it hasnt won. Its only a matter of time before the gaming industry is going to be hit by the exact same massive boycots of woke trash entertainment as seen in the movie/series, comics and comedy branches. And thank goodness we see the first signs of people working these destroyed industries speaking out against everything that is woke, but also more and more females and peopole of color turning against this morronic movement. And we see the first encourageing signs companies being fed up by taking financial hits cause nobody buys their woke trash products and services, and the financial troubles and growing number of lays offs within woke media platorms (cause they arent making any money) is also very encourageing to see.
Just jumping In to say have being bin a man and a woman I can say these sentiments are not just from guys or gamers it's in female spaces to just there its seen as being safe and protecting from men so no one calls it out well I did but that's why I'm not alowed in many female spaces any more lol
I see you as one of the few people on the left who is intellectually honest. The political compass is totally overused, but despite that, the real battle has only ever been between authoritarians and libertarians, and we both oppose both fascists and communists.
Trying to understand and sympathize with authoritians is akin to doing so with psychopaths. You are guaranteed to lose your sanity. I nearly lost mine once and I hope never to have someone else experience it again.
HOLY SHIT you might be one of the few people who got the chain of events CORRECT. Zoe Quinn is one of the few people who actually deserves cancel culture. To say she has blood on her hands? UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE FUCKING DECADE. But no-one wants to talk about that because they'd much rather keep talking the misogynist narrative until eternity. or to put it another way "why are you biased as fuck gaming journalism" "WHY ARE YOU A MISOGYNIST" "that's not a answer to the questio..." "STFU you MONSTER"
Wait.. the guy who broke Gamergate? Wasn't that Mister Metokur? He's not far-right, he's just a shitlord that makes fun of people. And kind of an asshole. But he's not really overtly political. Unless that's not the guy you meant. Depressing, so many of his streams are impossible to find now. Was hillarious.
Most GGers who turned right wing during or after GG did so for multiple well reasoned purposes, including the most common primary reason, they realized the left was being over run by communists and they realized that communism is vastly more detrimental than any other system that has ever existed. Other reasons include science based policy and the respect that right wingers treat human rights with.
@Stirgid Lanathiel while you make good points pragerU is also fringe on the right. Most right wingers tend towards libertarianism as opposed to conservativism. And this generally also includes former leftists who went right. Science based policy tends to sway more people than religious or emotion based policy.
@Herdan dialectical materialism rejects the notion of human rights (and technically electricity and telecommunications and digital information which are immaterial) and actually large portions of non americans oppose communism. "Wokism" is a tool to institute communism FYI and Idk why anyone would bother distinguishing the people trying to bring communism back from communists so...
@Stirgid Lanathiel not sure why you're trying to convince me you're right wing. Most right wingers these days are culturally conservative, yes. Most of them are also socially liberal. All but the fascists are capitalist in some form. These sets of policies describe libertarianism though, which again, is science based as opposed to feelings based or religion based.
@Stirgid Lanathiel I would also say that the fact that the right wing encourages discussion and debate helped turn a lot of leftists into right wingers as left wing policies don't hold up to scrutiny and right wing policies do, and upon interacting with the right for a given period of time most leftists either ragequit or realize the right has more valid points than the left.
i havent watched the video yet but this comment section is full of incels so you may want to rethink this burger, i literally JUST recommended you to left wing people
"Donating to something like the many organizations that are advocating for criminal justice reform" To be honest. This includes Trump's re-election campaign. Im just not sure yet what the "First Step Act" (Formerly Incarcerated Reenter Society Transformed Safely Transitioning Every Person Act) really does. At least the summary seems half decent.
@@mek101whatif7 Even aside from those kind of shenanigans, it just has less relevance and viewership than video game journalism. I bet ANN hires some failed video game journalists.
I noticed the anime community is having their own little culture war. The same thing appears to be happening there, too. Notable commentators and youtubers question the "powers that be", and they get called misogynists on twitter. Some things never change.
Erase your history. There's a 'clear all history' option in the RUclips history page. Nuke your history, and that will reset the algorithm. Or you can just search for this video in history, and delete it by clicking the 'X'. That will remove recommendations related to this video. But if you've watched any recommends from this video already then it's too late. Only nuking your history will fix it. If you go the nuclear option when you come back to the YT homepage it will be a bunch of generic recommends.
@@spacedoohicky Yeah, I went and erased all videos from this entire channel from my history, unsubbed, and I didn't look at any of the recommends generated from it, they've gone away now. But it was ridiculous - just this one video about GamerGate spawned a bunch of Kotaku-In-Action style gamer videos and some MAGA political rants. The YT algorithm tried to fucking redpill me from this one view.
@@mek101whatif7 They might archive it, but hard drive space is expensive. Being that RUclips doesn't make them much money I highly doubt they have much good reason to archive histories. You never know. But deleting history does alter recommends as if the entries never existed.
I hate how you seem to think success equals permanent solution in these kind of videos, as if the people like these are against will honourably back off. It is a constant battle and the people who back down are the ones who lose.
Even if you grant that Gamergate was PURELY about ethical journalism and the misconduct of one person, it fails. GG started when people accused Zoe Quinn of exchanging sex for positive reviews. I've challenged GG supporters to show me that review. They never do.
That's because GG never claimed there was a review. Only that there was positive press. It was defenders of the writer and the developer that weaselled things by saying 'there's no review'. So allow me to help you, by saying that this is the writer in question, and the examples of that positive press are all archived and linked to from here: ggwiki.deepfreeze.it/index.php?title=Nathan_Grayson
@@smartalec2001 So "positive press" includes an article where her game is just one among 50 mentioned and an article that only mentions her game neutrally a couple times and where she is just one of many people involved in a dispute over a reality show?
@@Wintermute01001 Yeah. It is a tiny thing, I agree with you. And if the games press had shrugged their shoulders, and the writer just said 'oops, my bad', it probably would have ended there. But they didn't. And that's what GG was really about - the cliqueiness of the games press and their unreasonable hostility towards the gaming medium in general. The absurdity of just how much effort and energy they threw into insisting that this tiny thing never happened, and how many allies from far and wide they brought in to help them do that. That's what got a lot more people taking a second look and realising how incestuous it all was. pastebin.com/dWzF8Eqd the initial dozen 'Gamers are Dead' articles on Aug 28th was where it really started.
@@Wintermute01001 The guy was writing positive stuff about his friends' products without disclosing that he was a friend of theirs. it is a bit of an oops. People don't have unlimited money to spend on games, and by writing about his friends' stuff positively in the capacity of a journalist while not disclosing...? Bad form. If someone bought his friends' stuff based on a recommendation coming from a potential undisclosed bias? I can see why they'd be unhappy. As small as this was, that's a failure of the ethics of journalism, specifically the part of it related to transparency. But as I said, it's a small thing. It was just the little loose thread that, when pulled, unravelled the whole shirt.
Gamergate may have at one point been a genuine pursuit of truth for some of the people involved, but let's be honest about its outcomes. The largest impact gamergate had on today's political landscape was the radicalization of an entire generation of young male gamers into the alt right. I cringe.
Pretty sure the far left are the ones radicalizing people. Imagine thinking a fringe minority somehow constitutes an "entire generation". Last I checked, the alt right gamer chuds aren't the ones burning down multiple cities in the US right now.
Yes, I'm sure it's the obscure anti-corruption-in-gaming-journalism movement that is radicalized a generation. The academia swarming with self-avowed marxists on the other hand clearly has no such power.
>Most People are Somewhat Left Wing Xcuse me what? you should really calm down burger, you're really going further and further down the leftist hole. Maybe take a breather.
7:50 unless those people already are men rights activists/advocates, in which case they really have nothing to loose. Except ability to go to some partisan expos ect.
They're centre right compared to any other nation, with the republicans being more far-right. This is because other countries actually have more than 2 political parties, so you can better see the various fades of each side
@Herdan Just to add: you can also have different mixes of things, see the PiS party in poland: they fucking hate lgbt and such, but they raised minimum wage and expanded the welfare massively.
@@Big_Gulps_Huh Not talking about his social or economic views. It's more of the "Left-wing good, right-wing bad!" vibes he let of in this video. Couple with the blatant buy-in of conspiracies/half-truths commonly found in left-wing circles.
Gamergate was one of the worst things that could happen to the gaming community. Focusing on anti sjw garbage instead of criticising what actually is destroying gaming. Politics is in everything it is close to impossible to not have politics in an narrative driven game it is always at least indirectly criticising something about how the world works and or saying how the world should work so if you don’t have a game like Tetris that has no story at all you will always have politics in them and by saying you don’t want politics in games in that context the thing you actually mean is that you don’t want politics in games that don’t mache with your world-views what in on itself is ok I guess but at least own up to it (still cringe if you are an anti sjw type). And to go back to my second point the gaming industry gets literally raped by big cooperations that are buying smaller studios and closing them, and the quality of games is getting in a lot of cases worse because of an pure profit motive and the accompanying reduction in artistic freedoms ,an example for this is the catering to casuals that blizzard has done wich resulted in an degenerate Diablo 3 and the decline of wow, loot boxes, in game purchases, decline of single player.... tldr: if you don’t like lgbt stuff own up to it and be real. There are things that really fuck the gaming industry rn and it is not the gay agenda.
Except there are literally decades of story heavy games without it and they are beloved to this day (because stories don't age as badly as graphics or mechanics). The point is, "woke" games will never be considered classics, because they emphasize a knee jerk virtue signal to capitalize on the current state. Sorry, if i can call the story just by looking at the "cast", that is a terrible writing process right there. Once that state passes though, you are left with mediocre game mechanics, nonsensical storylines etc. But yes, that phenomenon is just another fad, just like the things you mentioned, except that it is politically charged and people are actually invested in keeping it going for reasons other than gaming. There is a reason why big companies make estimations on the base of target demographics. Most people simply tolerate those things, because most people don't spend hours on hours gaming, so if it makes a buck here or there, why not include it ? It's all about who you want to cater to and there is no right or wrong answer to that necessarily.
SpaceMonkeyEntertainment 1. examples of Storys driven games without politics in them would be nice 2. It is possible that I have just not played the games that got destroyed by being “woke” but I have literally never played a game that got destroyed by being “woke” . The only thing that I can think of is bl3 it has a horrible story with bad characters... it is trying to criticise social media stars in an pretty superficial way. If your problem is with bad stories that only base around an character being quirky and or are using token minorities then yes this is bad but I don’t see this happening. It dose not make an story bad to have marginalised groups in them and it dose not make an story bad if for example the story is based around being gay or has gay characters it is also not bad to have politics in stories it just needs to be well written. And just as an reminder if it is depicting the status quo it is also political just centrist aka having just straights/whites in games is also political . I just find it hypocritical that in an gaming series like battle field that is tbh not relevant for the story people all of an sudden cry because of women.
@@lost3291 Cause the woke games never expand beyond a certain niche demography, which is fine imo. As for "Woke" games, it's hard to define what you mean in that context of definition.
@@ValerioRhys Sargon, Styx, Razorfist, NoBullshit, Fat Otaku, Molyneux, that bear guy... I can keep going, the hard thing is find ones that aren't basically simping for natsees right now.
Well, and I'm a person condemning GamerGate in the year of our Lord 2020. Guess you brought that upon yourself :D So... sorry mate, but your video starts with a lie. Or, to be more charitable, ignorance and massive disinformation. The journalist in question never reviewed the developer's game, he mentioned it positively (and very briefly) in a short article that primarily was about several new indie games appearing on Steam (an event which, at the time, was still somewhat newsworthy), on a website which previously had covered the game very favorably (in articles from other journalists, who had no personal with the developer whatsoever, just to make that clear). Oh, and the alleged relationship happened AFTER that article was written. Furthermore, if journalistic integrity was really the aim of GamerGate, then why did they focus almost entirely on the developer, and not the journalist? There was a MASSIVE harassment campaign against her, including death threats, hacking, doxxing, and swatting. Sure, only a small minority of GG supporters participated in those actions - but there definitely was a sense in the wider "movement" that the developer basically brought it on herself, and the overall tone of GG was definitely misogynistic. However, a much larger group of open GG supporters did send insulting and harassing messages and tweets to the developer, so I'd say describing GamerGate as a "sexist harassment campaign" is entirely fair in retrospect. Especially considering that the focus shifted very quickly on so-called "SJWs" somehow ruining the games industry with their feminism, lead by she-devil Anita Sarkeesian, who almost became GamerGate's enemy #1 (or at least #2), and also received a lot of harrassment. I certainly have some criticisms of Sarkeesian myself - but whatever you think of her, she had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of journalistic malpractice. So again, why did GamerGate care about her at all, if their prime concern was supposedly ETHICS IN VIDEO GAME JOURNALISM? Of course not every individual GamerGate supporter was/is a bad person, not even the ones who sent insulting/harassing messages - in the heat of the moment, most people don't notice how they're snowflakes in an avalanche, and sites like Twitter or the YT comment sections of large channels are hellscapes were discourse goes to die. But the "movement" _as a whole_ was utterly poisoned pretty much from the start, no matter what legitimate concerns they may have had. (So, very few, in my opinion.) Also, no further "corruption" was discovered. *None*. The closest "evidence" was the discovery of an industry-wide mailing list/discussion group for game journalists, but that is hardly an extraordinary thing, and far from "unethical". It is certainly true that game _publishers_ (though not small indie devs, lol) hold a large sway over video game publications, mainly via practices like review embargoes and exclusive preview events. But this has been known since long before GamerGate started, and has been vigorously criticized by some of the same people who were later called "corrupt" by GG (often just for the terrible crime of defending targeted individuals from harassment). For example, the website on which the article that started it all was published is an _independent outlet_, which has (and still regularly does) written against the practices of large publisher. In the undying words of one Sheev Palpatine: Ironic. These are my criticisms just for the first 3 minutes or so of your video, and I don't want to write a novel here. You seem like a decent guy, but this video is, well, just flat-out wrong. If this turns into a discussion, I hope we can keep it civil (lolsob).
"Well, and I'm a person condemning GamerGate in the year of our Lord 2020. Guess you brought that upon yourself :D " Ah hello again, Owl...I remember you, but I guess that's a concurrent thing in the current context again. And I am person who was part of GamerGate since 2014-2017, so hello. (Although I've more leaning to GG than a part of nowadays) "The journalist in question never reviewed the developer's game" Yes, which is true, but it was still exposure without saying anything about their relationship (Romantic or not). However, the "Review" started from Anti-GG to try and do a lockdown on the LW1 Post. Sadly it stuck to this day, mostly infuriating any chronicler. -_- As it gives this form of defence of Schrödinger's disbelief. "Review" = Lie = From the shallow people who didn't research but the most known defence. "Exposure" = "Lie" From the GG side. And as such it's just annoying as hell to break down. Also, what about the Judge who also had relationship with LW and gave the win to her? Hmm? And, they had contact LONG before any of their exposure, go check up the history a bit more. "There was a MASSIVE harassment campaign against her, including death threats, hacking, doxxing, and swatting." You DO Know what she did before GG? Remember where she used her group to attack people? She was a shitty person before getting the larger spotlight on her. SomethingAwful? TFYC? She already was hated long before for her vile actions affecting real life people. "Sure, only a small minority of GG supporters participated in those actions - but there definitely was a sense in the wider "movement" that the developer basically brought it on herself, and the overall tone of GG was definitely misogynistic." Certainly, a small part was vile and bashful (Although nothing about that in the FBI report...weirdly). And yes, she was hated for many things related to her previous history pre-GG. And if it was misogynistic, why were so many females celebrated and praised for showing their viewpoints on any of the forums where GG gathered? Weird isn't it? "However, a much larger group of open GG supporters did send insulting and harassing messages and tweets to the developer, so I'd say describing GamerGate as a "sexist harassment campaign" is entirely fair in retrospect. " Weasel Words again....It didn't take long, I guess. While insults and harassing was common, you said "supporters" do you mean people who were in the core of GG gatherings or the #GamerGate? One of these are easier to prove while the other is a hashtag anyone can take. That's one of the issues of being a leaderless group where people just gather around a hashtag and cannot gatekeep or control the people using it. If you mean harass and such you must talk about Twitter as well due to how it works with #. Irrelevant and unproveable. While certainly a huge disdain was against LW1, it was very harsh, no matter from related to GG or not. "Especially considering that the focus shifted very quickly on so-called "SJWs" somehow ruining the games industry with their feminism, lead by she-devil Anita Sarkeesian, who almost became GamerGate's enemy #1 (or at least #2), and also received a lot of harrassment. I certainly have some criticisms of Sarkeesian myself - but whatever you think of her, she had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of journalistic malpractice. So again, why did GamerGate care about her at all, if their prime concern was supposedly ETHICS IN VIDEO GAME JOURNALISM? "" SJW was an umbrella term of many of the idealogists symptoms that kept unraveling over time, as such it was the adopted definition. Which was both ironically taken by the people as their identity or removal of it. And yes, the idealogy was changing the landscape in a more forced manner which many MANY of the Old Veterans Gamers in a direction that the majority did not enjoy (Force changed of Games creation is something that was VEHEMENTLY regressive for most of us that were active in the forums). Several cases was talked about ad naseum, such as Damsel in Distress (Which villified fricking Princess Peach for example?), forcing a view on a fictional beloved person into something that almost noone could understand or have any base of. Also, Anita has been a topic far before GamerGate existed, however, she atleast tried to do a change in the beginning in a more friendly manner but manipulation of said data willl make a harsh response from any gamer who played the games. As for why she was important enough to become a question for GamerGate was related to how she was becoming the face of a change(And as stated, manipulation to show false and/or misleading view) was a huge red flag. While most of us could understand some part of her view of games, the many things that made no sense (Or straight up lies which was also common) made many people angry. "Of course not every individual GamerGate supporter was/is a bad person, not even the ones who sent insulting/harassing messages - in the heat of the moment, most people don't notice how they're snowflakes in an avalanche, and sites like Twitter or the YT comment sections of large channels are hellscapes were discourse goes to die. But the "movement" as a whole was utterly poisoned pretty much from the start, no matter what legitimate concerns they may have had. (So, very few, in my opinion.) " Of course, everyone had their own angry responses(And some went over the line, yes, but that's for any human). Not sure what you mean by Poisoned from the start, if so you should stop brushing your teeth, not drive a car, and treat your dogs however you want and even murder them without repercusions. (If you know the history of these you should know that's a very illinformed view) While YT and Twitter(especially with the word limit) is a hard place to argue, doesn't mean you may find a person in the midst. "(So, very few, in my opinion.) "" Oh hello unethical practice, we meet again. Who cares about fairness or honesty? :) You made a game that took 13 years with love and effort, but the judge gave it to her husband due to the relationship values you didn't have. Oops? "Also, no further "corruption" was discovered. *None*. The closest "evidence" was the discovery of an industry-wide mailing list/discussion group for game journalists, but that is hardly an extraordinary thing, and far from "unethical". It is certainly true that game publishers (though not small indie devs, lol) hold a large sway over video game publications, mainly via practices like review embargoes and exclusive preview events. But this has been known since long before GamerGate started, and has been vigorously criticized by some of the same people who were later called "corrupt" by GG (often just for the terrible crime of defending targeted individuals from harassment)." GameJournopros was over 150 people gathered behind the scenes to form narrative or willfull change over developers who was trying to just survive but was strongarmed into certain design patterns which ruined their initial vision of their dream. You may call it whatever you think it is, but developers cannot do that to gain exposure, the very ESSENCE of wants from a developer. And that wasn't the only one, go read up DeepFreeze and you'll see where the collusion(Although you called it corruption but whatever.) What about the other parts of it then? All the evidence of changes from journalists that was bought? The changes of the industry of unethical practices of game data being locked? There's far more than I can think of right now, but whatever. And yes, these "malicious" forms of change is not something many gamers liked (While trying to help the market it's hurting it more). Not sure what you mean by corrupt by GG? Cause there needs to be atleast some reason why you say that, have an example? "For example, the website on which the article that started it all was published is an _independent outlet_, which has (and still regularly does) written against the practices of large publisher. In the undying words of one Sheev Palpatine: Ironic." The article? LW1 Post? The Grayson one? Tumblr? 4Chan? Which article?. "These are my criticisms just for the first 3 minutes or so of your video, and I don't want to write a novel here. You seem like a decent guy, but this video is, well, just flat-out wrong. If this turns into a discussion, I hope we can keep it civil (lolsob)." Civil discource is something that GG wanted since day 1, sadly, it only happened 5 years after it ended. -_- So hello. As for his information, yes. Some of it is wrong, that's why the comment field exists, luckily.
I don't understand your view on trump. He is very far from perfect, and there are a lot of problems with his policies, but he's not the devil you make him out to be.
@@MatPost you mean what Democrat Governors are doing to America in an attempt to crash the economy to prevent Trump from winning 2020. Trump isn't keeping the economy closed, that's the local governments who are so filled with Trump derangement syndrome that they are willing to do literally anything to try to get him out of office.
Trump is a clown, a narcistic clown, and this was before he got into politics. So you are correct not the devil just not fit for office, sadly neither is Biden.
@@EndMeNow69420 gamergate is about fighting corruption. People in mens rights movement don't really have anything to lose from being in Gamer Gate. They use political slander against each other as a joke because of it's absurdity.
You know that people can have different opinions regardless of their surroundings, right? Also, Germany as any democracy worty of that name has various political parties, each with a different combination of ideas
I am a woman and left wing, I had been back in the day a supporter of gamer gate, but yes, I have moved on since that time. I am actually surprised to hear that people still rally under that banner. Like mentioned in the video, the goal was reached. But sure, I stopped consuming games journalism for the most part, thus I don't really care any more.
The purpose of defending gamergate in the year twenty-twenty is the same reason for defending any historical event from being retroactively molded into something that it wasn't. Whether that side won or not is irrelevant when the losing side years later still holds sway of public opinion and uses that to paint their old enemies as what they weren't.
Product journalism is advertisement. Don't trust advertisement. Next problem.
"A site as wholesome as Twitter,"
Oh you.
I thought he was being sarcastic?
@@madlink3495 he was
I think it's a stretch to say Gamergate was JUST about "ethics in game journalism." The backlash against Anita Sarkesian and other attempts to imbue gaming with left wing identity politics was very strong at the time this happened and there was a lot of overlap between complaints about game journalism and complaints about that. While some of the "incels mad at women entering a traditionally male space" thing you mention might have been going on, It seems at least as much a criticism of the feminist influence on game development as an attack on women (feminism and women are not the same thing). You're right that it only got so big because of the media trying to cover it up and that the media's claim that it was misogyny made a lot of people actually misogynistic.
Revisit those dark days with the new 108-minute documentary on Sargon, MRAs, and GamerGate: YT search for "Munted, Random"
Homie. Your acting like the journs thats why. Your not in it for gaming your in for propaganda(journalists were for money). You cant be suprised when they treat you like a outliner for it.
I think what got me pissed was the 48-hour cycle of "Gamers Are Dead" articles. For decades, gamers have been maligned as violent, sexist degenerate children by the mainstream media, and many of us remember what it was like to be bullied in school for having this hobby. To have games journalists, who we *THOUGHT* would be representing us, stab us in the collective back felt devastating. I knew almost nothing about the Zoe post at the time, but those articles cut really deep.
They really can't decide on whether we're terrifying murderous rapists or weak worthless losers. Doublethink and delusions are the only legs they can stand on.
@@huuuuuuh2057 It depends of how they make the Law and Order SVU episode, honestly. The whole damn thing was a mess, holding people accountable welp they threw a whole 52 card deck's worth a reverse and draw 4's. Everytime people proved the corruption they made sure to swerve the blame the people pointing it out. It legit took a suicide for people to do "maybe she's a trash person this whole time?"
@@kurokamo2 Because a lot of people didn't know and during that time if you even called her out on anything wrong you had so many people fight for her. So people gave up trying for justice. It's so sad...
I find the idea of identifying as a ‘gamer’ to be a shallow and unhelpful characterization that doesn’t really convey anything about yourself to begin with. The farthest I would go would be to call myself someone who happens to play video games
@@fjbz3737 I agree with what you're saying. I only use the term "gamer" for the sake of convenience.
I find it hilarious that there are people who still believe gamergate is the embodiment of all that is evil to this day.
Gotta excuse their insanity somehow - quick, use projection, that'll own them gamurz.
For some people, it's all they have left to stay relevant and make money.
Lmfao
A lot of people today don't remember how GamerGate actually went down. I've seen several folks calling it out as a misogynistic movement. These people aren't aware that there was a flame war over journalists blanket vilifying gamers as a homogeneous hateful entity. It's a complicated mess because there are extreme misogynist folks that were, or are involved. Which makes the people who are/were involved who aren't misogynist seem invalidated.
I think there is reason to defend GamerGate, or less defend, and more correct the facts. Because some people are trying to rewrite history. As to why it's important, I think it's the whole thing about - those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it.
South Korea is doing pretty good with Covid by the way. We all should have copied their model. Speaking of history.
Anyone who calls it a 'harassment campaign' or 'misogynist movement' needs to get slapped in the face with an FBI report that completely and entirely exonerates gamergate and in fact heavily indicts the antis.
@@MJesDK GG is like Comicsgate after it. You see people actively involved in corruption and nepotism of a media and them blaming the people whom are supposed to BUY said media when they call them out. "Oh, we're not BAD you're bad for calling us bad first." That's how their logic basically worked, because they get called out it is suddenly an attack on their whole existence. Instead of properly debating they run, yell, get hate mobs(doxxing) and or try to get people banned. What's bad it fucking worked because of how they abused people's empathy, their empathy made them useful idiots.
@@ExeErdna The funny thing is. If Zoe and her ilk just admitted that there was indeed a conflict of interest, you know, like actual adults. It would have been over in a few days and none would be the wiser.
Instead, they instigated an internet-wide mass censorship, flagged and blamed as many unrelated people as possible, and to top it all off, colluded and conspired with various gaming press sites and journos to collectively give a middle finger to all gamers, 98% of which don't even know or care who these people are.
It's one of the largest examples of the Streisand effect.
Gamers accused them of conspiring together to run a narrative, and in response......they conspired together to run a narrative.
@@ValerioRhys You gotta love how humans are. Instead of taking an L people would have maybe respected them for taking. They basically changed the world and became hated for something SO minor and forgettable.
Was mainly a sympathetic bystander
To me it's less that GG won, but was able to make the presses victory pyrrhic. Like many such social structures it often isn't the opposition, but the drain of unaddressed discontent that the conflict with said opposition has left them unable to handle that does them in.
For me, video games have always been a tool that helped me get through hard times, one that my own abusive parents would often take from me as a way of expressing their rage (caused by a number of serious psychological and relationship problems and the additional stress of raising an unwanted child) and desperate desire for control. Gamers as a group had always welcomed social outcasts and people with issues, and even though misogyny existed, it really never defined most gamer communities. I've played games with girls many times online and off. Then one day I started encountering very angry, aggressive and abusive people who insisted that my struggles and disabilities meant nothing because of my race and gender. One of them tore apart the community I'd spent years in by unfairly banning hundreds of people for obscure violations of political correctness. She often held mock trials for her victims, encouraging others in the chat to jeer at them and then banning them regardless of whether they showed any remorse. I vividly remember the time a guy I'd chatted with for years was banned for saying "The Lion King for Sega Genesis gave me PTSD". A lot of people had similar experiences at the time of running into crazy authoritarian cyberbullies identifying as feminists in one place or another. That atmosphere was why much of Gamergate had a notable antifeminist slant from day 1, and I don't think it's fair or productive that the "crazy people came into my community and started smashing up the place" aspect never got a proper hearing in the public eye. If it had, I'm convinced the online Alt-Right would never have become such an influential (and dangerous) part of the American conservative sphere.
But the entire reason that started GamerGate was doxxing of some game dev under the guise of a breach of journalistic ethics, which was proven to be unfounded.
That's why it was demonized in the first place. The death threats and journalistic hit pieces didn't help to resolve this quickly.
The legitimate cause was marred by that inciting incident.
The only gamergater I've heard of still hasn't changed his opinion, and he was (and still is) NOT a bigot, and still anti-sjw.
So what gamergaters are this alt right thing? I'm not saying they never had misogyny, but it never seemed to be the focus if at all. Plus the misogyny was really just calling out a bad person who happened to be a woman.
I didn't know gamergate still exists in a capacity worth bringing up seriously, but I'd gladly align with it in 2020. I don't use twitter or other social media, so maybe I'm not taking to the slactivism seriously enough, but with the friends I do discuss politics with and the things I do coordinate, I aim to explain the state of the world without bias and coordinate on how to make it better. Presently, that's by staying inside, staying safe, and preparing for the worst, no matter how tempting it is to clean the streets yourself. Violence is a last resort, and once it begins, ideas are no longer valid.
Id back up GG anytime someone said it was about harrasment, because it was about games journalism, but who actually cares about it now?
I still believe that gamergate was a good thing and should be revived.
It's not gonna happen for a fucking while. Last time was the results of decades of shitty work from journalists, it's gonna take at least another decade before anything similiar is reached.
Holy fuck haven't seen you since Ft.Mangs
@@Deadagent Except that this shit is still going on. Nobody stopped, they just dodged the spotlight.
How about we drop the moniker, and broaden it to make it about truth in journalism in general?
@@postapocalypse0763 hi
I think Knowyourmeme is still the best source of info to get a grasp on this series of unfortunate events
True, so much more dept and details
After you mentioned that, I decided to check out their article. Oh my god, I forgot how much of a huge clusterfuck that entire movement was. o_O
Yep... I call it a series of unfortunate events for a reason
It's funny how easelly an north american "left winger" would be called a right wing extremist here in South America.
You are one of the few left leaning folks I still enjoy listening to and can agree with on plenty of ways. This video was on point. 👌
There is heaps of wisdom in the snark but they he goes and calls trump and biden rapists...
One of them sniffs and handles kids the other said his own daughter was date-able.
@@TherealTenmanI The latter sounds perfectly acceptable.
You must live in a world of conspiracy thenn if all you listen to is RIGHT leaning folks....
@@TrueMithrandir who said I was right? 😂
@@TrueMithrandir The same would apply it was left.
weaponized identity? no thats absurd who on earth could claim to speak for entire demographics just to bludgeon their enemies?
What even IS collectivism, critical race theory, white fragility theory, Antifa, or BLM?
We just don't know...
Out of convenience, habit or plain ignorance sure - but the very foundation of critical race theory is that individualism doesn't exist and is a canard used by 'altright nazi whities' to be beaten into a pulp.
Which is fucking bullshit from where i'm standing - and i'm from possibly the most social democrat (and in my biased opinion BEST) country in the world, and no it's not even in the Americas.
@@MJesDK
That's some heresy right there. According to my biased opinion my Country America is the best country in the world
A lot of the "gamers hate women" is actually just a misrepresentation of gamers complaining about badly written characters who use "female" as an excuse for bad writing.
"You don't like my mary sue? That means you hate women."
It's not so simple because we are living with a history of countless Gary Stews that existed long before the trend of Mary Sues. Yet there's not that many people complaining about the Gary Stews. Mostly people just recognize it for what it is. It's escapism in the form of absurd power fantasy. A staple of our stories since the Greek gods. With Super Man, One Punch Man, and the like there is no shortage of amazing Gary Stews.
@@spacedoohicky " Yet there's not that many people complaining about the Gary Stews."
That's how I know to not take you seriously.
Also, did you called Superman and OPA Gary Stews?
@@Warptenlololol A few people complain about Gary Stews. It's very rare though. Not near as popular as complaining about Mary Sues when we consider how many Gary Stews have existed. It was a staple of 80's, and 90's action films after all. And sure a few people have complained, but not nearly relative to the amount of all those Gary Stews.
@@Warptenlololol I guess it's actually spelled Gary Stu by the way. Whoops!
@@spacedoohicky
Gary Stu is an outright boring concept that doesn't happen nearly as often as a Mary Sue, because apparently people don't understand that women are also capable of the "Hero's Journey".
I just recently found your RUclips Channel because I was trying to convince people that Shadowrun was better than cyberpunk and now I'm watching all your videos and having a great time!
Going through some of your videos, I'm impressed by how consistently you have takes I almost completely agree with. I've only been watching you for a few days but you're one of my top three RUclipsrs already.
I just want to remind everyone that there was a Gamergate SVU episode and it's hilarious. It was an interesting time and creativity thrived.
It was exactly as how Anti-GG view the world.
No surprise then that everyone thought it was ridiculous.
"Go home, gamer girl."
Never forget AcidRain!
Burger,
If we can't fix something as tangential and low stakes as game journalism, how do you expect to tackle something bigger with way more money and powerful players?
GG isn't over. GG is the vanguard. And until we turn the tide there, we cannot hope to turn the tide elsewhere.
@Stirgid Lanathiel And you disagree, i assume ? Also there is such a thing as momentum, that is built up by small victories. Suggesting you shouldn't start fixing the things you can actually impact, before tackling things that are much harder to crack, honestly, seems nonsensical to me, but whatever works for you i guess.
@@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 I think you have seriously misunderstood the idea of "political capital". Doing things exhausts your political capital, not enhances it. If that were really the case, and doing things allowed you to do more things, someone would have already done all the things.
4:01 Thanks Burger. You're a homie.
Praise the sun!
Thank god for the internet. Right, Burger? I mean...the gaming industry and community was all unicorns, puppies, and Crispy Creme as a presentation/display.....now, it is a sh*tshow. LOL
I got into internet politics a few years after the whole gamergate thing, so it was nice to get a history lesson.
Gamergate was supposed to have collapsed and been forgotten by now.
Instead the entire culture war became a thing and the arena has been on fire since 2014. Hatred of wokeness *is* majority opinion. The journos are dying, half the sites are bankrupt, even Hollywood is dead while "far right" youtubers are growing exponentially despite the desperate attempts by youtube itself to censor them.
Ghostbusters lost with the entire media defending it, Joker won with the entire media ralling against it.
I don't disavow, I celebrate. Gamergate won.
"Hey you have a conflict of interest with your occupation."
"Hey look some guy posted a nasty comment on Twitter gamers are dead."
Pineapple on pizza is delicious. Dislike.
Also, "left-wing good, right-wing bad" logic detected (black and white thinking). Climate change is more of a nuanced issue too, it's not a looming abrupt apocalypse at all. Talking of systemic racism without looking into hard stats first (black people are _not_ harmed by police more than any other people there - just look up the numbers). You used to be more critically-minded than this, Burger.
You took me on an emotional journey there, Burger
This video is amazing, thank you so much for actually giving a clear view of what the hell was going on
Dammit, Burger, finally some good food. Welcome back whut propah
Wait. All these reasons that worrying about corrupt gaming journalism isn't a relevant problem in 2020, didn't most of these apply in 2014? I'm reasonably certain the climate or political challenges weren't that massively different.
We realised that but we still stubbornly try to fix it without blasting of massive chunks of a community recklessly.
@@necrosteel5013caution is a virtue in this
11:47 Please i want to put a pin on that thought if i may: The gaming press is still in a rather questionable relationship with videogame developer but mostly publisers.
We may say that we who enjoy games don't listen to Video game journalists, but at the same time many publishers or developers will only listen to journalists and not the player-base creating a rather closed in bubble or cyst of feedback that than leads or even led to today's gaming mainstream "AAA" bland-a-thon that is thrown up with clockwork precision to the market. =s
Do understand that this problem is not entirely solved.
please and thank you.
This is the dark timeline stay safe y'all
The systemic racism in those United States is a minor problem compared to the systemic sexism. The gender sentencing gap is multitudes wider than the racial sentencing gap. In fact Non-Hispanic African-American Women receive much less punishment for the same crime as a Non-Hispanic White-American male.
It was simpler times back then, with the gamers gate and the gay marriage barely legal. Now it feels like everyone hates everyone else and I’m sad
I remember gamer gate meaning different things to almost everyone. It was a stupid pseudocrisis.
And what about ethics in knitting?
15:59 "Dwopped"
UwU Dwopped Dwasticawwy UwU
Despite this movement of hate and divisiveness gained ground, and sadly still is gaining ground within gaming; it hasnt won. Its only a matter of time before the gaming industry is going to be hit by the exact same massive boycots of woke trash entertainment as seen in the movie/series, comics and comedy branches. And thank goodness we see the first signs of people working these destroyed industries speaking out against everything that is woke, but also more and more females and peopole of color turning against this morronic movement. And we see the first encourageing signs companies being fed up by taking financial hits cause nobody buys their woke trash products and services, and the financial troubles and growing number of lays offs within woke media platorms (cause they arent making any money) is also very encourageing to see.
is that MISTBORN in the background???? I FUCKING LOVE BRANDON SANDERSON'S BOOKS FUCK YEAH
Just jumping In to say have being bin a man and a woman I can say these sentiments are not just from guys or gamers it's in female spaces to just there its seen as being safe and protecting from men so no one calls it out well I did but that's why I'm not alowed in many female spaces any more lol
So what happened to Gamergate is what happened to the North American trucker strike.
I see you as one of the few people on the left who is intellectually honest.
The political compass is totally overused, but despite that, the real battle has only ever been between authoritarians and libertarians, and we both oppose both fascists and communists.
Trying to understand and sympathize with authoritians is akin to doing so with psychopaths. You are guaranteed to lose your sanity. I nearly lost mine once and I hope never to have someone else experience it again.
HOLY SHIT you might be one of the few people who got the chain of events CORRECT.
Zoe Quinn is one of the few people who actually deserves cancel culture. To say she has blood on her hands? UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE FUCKING DECADE. But no-one wants to talk about that because they'd much rather keep talking the misogynist narrative until eternity.
or to put it another way
"why are you biased as fuck gaming journalism"
"WHY ARE YOU A MISOGYNIST"
"that's not a answer to the questio..."
"STFU you MONSTER"
Wait.. the guy who broke Gamergate?
Wasn't that Mister Metokur? He's not far-right, he's just a shitlord that makes fun of people. And kind of an asshole. But he's not really overtly political.
Unless that's not the guy you meant. Depressing, so many of his streams are impossible to find now. Was hillarious.
I believe it was Milo who blew the whistle on the GameJournosPro.
Anyone got sources on the journalistic transparency organisations castigating games' journalists? For future arguments' sake
so incels are Tsundere? love that angle
@stockart whiteman that sounds about right
Most GGers who turned right wing during or after GG did so for multiple well reasoned purposes, including the most common primary reason, they realized the left was being over run by communists and they realized that communism is vastly more detrimental than any other system that has ever existed.
Other reasons include science based policy and the respect that right wingers treat human rights with.
@Herdan not really no
@Stirgid Lanathiel while you make good points pragerU is also fringe on the right. Most right wingers tend towards libertarianism as opposed to conservativism.
And this generally also includes former leftists who went right.
Science based policy tends to sway more people than religious or emotion based policy.
@Herdan dialectical materialism rejects the notion of human rights (and technically electricity and telecommunications and digital information which are immaterial) and actually large portions of non americans oppose communism.
"Wokism" is a tool to institute communism FYI and Idk why anyone would bother distinguishing the people trying to bring communism back from communists so...
@Stirgid Lanathiel not sure why you're trying to convince me you're right wing.
Most right wingers these days are culturally conservative, yes.
Most of them are also socially liberal.
All but the fascists are capitalist in some form.
These sets of policies describe libertarianism though, which again, is science based as opposed to feelings based or religion based.
@Stirgid Lanathiel I would also say that the fact that the right wing encourages discussion and debate helped turn a lot of leftists into right wingers as left wing policies don't hold up to scrutiny and right wing policies do, and upon interacting with the right for a given period of time most leftists either ragequit or realize the right has more valid points than the left.
i havent watched the video yet but this comment section is full of incels so you may want to rethink this burger, i literally JUST recommended you to left wing people
This was a great video.
TLU2 wining left right awards, once again gamergate was right.
"Donating to something like the many organizations that are advocating for criminal justice reform"
To be honest.
This includes Trump's re-election campaign.
Im just not sure yet what the "First Step Act" (Formerly Incarcerated Reenter Society Transformed Safely Transitioning Every Person Act) really does.
At least the summary seems half decent.
i see mistborn on your bookshelf...
do you want to do a reading list?
i'll buy your shortstory collection if you make it.
I had to cancel my subscription to Nature after they ran an article that mentioned GamerGate. It's odd how far this meme spread.
Scared me at first lmao
I can agree to a pretty decent amount of this, hard to really put into words tho.
Finding negative comments on twitter?
Man, this channel wrinkles my brain.
It is not the lowest form of journalism, that's anime journalism.
Haven't read anything in a while after they accused the Shield Hero of being an incel power fantasy. How's the rest?
@@mek101whatif7 Even aside from those kind of shenanigans, it just has less relevance and viewership than video game journalism. I bet ANN hires some failed video game journalists.
I noticed the anime community is having their own little culture war. The same thing appears to be happening there, too. Notable commentators and youtubers question the "powers that be", and they get called misogynists on twitter. Some things never change.
12:37 fucking mind reader!
When do you think it ended exactly, because I would like to get a timeframe for when cancel culture is truly dead.
2021 Is here And IT Is not better
Clicking on this video has utterly poisoned my RUclips algorithm recommendations
Welcome to the sad club
Erase your history. There's a 'clear all history' option in the RUclips history page. Nuke your history, and that will reset the algorithm. Or you can just search for this video in history, and delete it by clicking the 'X'. That will remove recommendations related to this video. But if you've watched any recommends from this video already then it's too late. Only nuking your history will fix it. If you go the nuclear option when you come back to the YT homepage it will be a bunch of generic recommends.
@@spacedoohicky Yeah, I went and erased all videos from this entire channel from my history, unsubbed, and I didn't look at any of the recommends generated from it, they've gone away now. But it was ridiculous - just this one video about GamerGate spawned a bunch of Kotaku-In-Action style gamer videos and some MAGA political rants. The YT algorithm tried to fucking redpill me from this one view.
@@spacedoohicky And even there I doubt youtube fully deletes your history. Given it's google we're talking about, it probably just hides it from you
@@mek101whatif7 They might archive it, but hard drive space is expensive. Being that RUclips doesn't make them much money I highly doubt they have much good reason to archive histories. You never know. But deleting history does alter recommends as if the entries never existed.
Ok but do you have sources on that?
I hate how you seem to think success equals permanent solution in these kind of videos, as if the people like these are against will honourably back off. It is a constant battle and the people who back down are the ones who lose.
ah... it's 2015 again...
-1
+1
I love you. Good Show Old Bean. Good Show.
Even if you grant that Gamergate was PURELY about ethical journalism and the misconduct of one person, it fails. GG started when people accused Zoe Quinn of exchanging sex for positive reviews. I've challenged GG supporters to show me that review. They never do.
That's because GG never claimed there was a review. Only that there was positive press. It was defenders of the writer and the developer that weaselled things by saying 'there's no review'.
So allow me to help you, by saying that this is the writer in question, and the examples of that positive press are all archived and linked to from here: ggwiki.deepfreeze.it/index.php?title=Nathan_Grayson
@@smartalec2001 So "positive press" includes an article where her game is just one among 50 mentioned and an article that only mentions her game neutrally a couple times and where she is just one of many people involved in a dispute over a reality show?
@@Wintermute01001 Yeah. It is a tiny thing, I agree with you. And if the games press had shrugged their shoulders, and the writer just said 'oops, my bad', it probably would have ended there.
But they didn't. And that's what GG was really about - the cliqueiness of the games press and their unreasonable hostility towards the gaming medium in general. The absurdity of just how much effort and energy they threw into insisting that this tiny thing never happened, and how many allies from far and wide they brought in to help them do that.
That's what got a lot more people taking a second look and realising how incestuous it all was.
pastebin.com/dWzF8Eqd the initial dozen 'Gamers are Dead' articles on Aug 28th was where it really started.
@@smartalec2001 But there was no "my bad." Nobody did anything wrong. It wasn't a tiny thing. It was nothing at all.
@@Wintermute01001 The guy was writing positive stuff about his friends' products without disclosing that he was a friend of theirs. it is a bit of an oops.
People don't have unlimited money to spend on games, and by writing about his friends' stuff positively in the capacity of a journalist while not disclosing...? Bad form. If someone bought his friends' stuff based on a recommendation coming from a potential undisclosed bias? I can see why they'd be unhappy.
As small as this was, that's a failure of the ethics of journalism, specifically the part of it related to transparency. But as I said, it's a small thing. It was just the little loose thread that, when pulled, unravelled the whole shirt.
Gamergate may have at one point been a genuine pursuit of truth for some of the people involved, but let's be honest about its outcomes. The largest impact gamergate had on today's political landscape was the radicalization of an entire generation of young male gamers into the alt right. I cringe.
Pretty sure the far left are the ones radicalizing people. Imagine thinking a fringe minority somehow constitutes an "entire generation". Last I checked, the alt right gamer chuds aren't the ones burning down multiple cities in the US right now.
Yes, I'm sure it's the obscure anti-corruption-in-gaming-journalism movement that is radicalized a generation. The academia swarming with self-avowed marxists on the other hand clearly has no such power.
Fair. I'm sorry I was a part of it. I believed I was really doing something for the right reasons.
You seriously didn't have to make this video ... bad look my dude . bad look .
>Most People are Somewhat Left Wing
Xcuse me what? you should really calm down burger, you're really going further and further down the leftist hole. Maybe take a breather.
-1
Leftists hole? He doesn't even know what communism and socialism are!
@Herdan You should watch his video about communism then.
Why so many ads?
7:50 unless those people already are men rights activists/advocates, in which case they really have nothing to loose. Except ability to go to some partisan expos ect.
I don't hate women. I simply have a mild form of dislike for women. Is there a word for that yet?
Distaste perhaps? Aversion ? Being somewhat peeved? I think these might bring the right idea you wish to convey.
@@necrosteel5013 Aversion will do fine. Thank you.
Distrust
Wtf are you talking about?
Wait a second youre in Germany how do you know about American politics lol
Wenn Amerika nießt, bekommt die Welt einen Schnupfen.
Did he really say the Dems are right wing?
What kind of kool aid is our mans sipping right now?
Culturally, they are pretty far left but the party leaders are economically center right.
They're centre right compared to any other nation, with the republicans being more far-right. This is because other countries actually have more than 2 political parties, so you can better see the various fades of each side
@Herdan Just to add: you can also have different mixes of things, see the PiS party in poland: they fucking hate lgbt and such, but they raised minimum wage and expanded the welfare massively.
@@mek101whatif7 Because social politics =/= economic politics.
The DNC is run by center-right corporatists, and Biden is their poster child. Burger has sipped no such kool-aid.
I’ll get around to rules for radicals but I’m nose deep in Locke.
Back at it again with the BIG FUNNY!!!
Not going to lie, I'm getting a bit worried for Burger. Sounds like he's falling down the Left-wing-lunatic hole. This saddens me greatly.
-1
Far-left hole? He doesn't even know what communism and socialism are
lol He was always a liberal dude. What the hell did you think he was this whole time?
@@mek101whatif7 Either you can't read, or you are trying to miss-interpret my comment. Your choice.
@@Big_Gulps_Huh Not talking about his social or economic views. It's more of the "Left-wing good, right-wing bad!" vibes he let of in this video. Couple with the blatant buy-in of conspiracies/half-truths commonly found in left-wing circles.
Based opinion.
P. S. Nevermind. GamerGate didn't radicalise anyone lol. There are some female Gamer Games.
P. P. S. Idk.
beautiful people in these comments
Gamergate was one of the worst things that could happen to the gaming community. Focusing on anti sjw garbage instead of criticising what actually is destroying gaming. Politics is in everything it is close to impossible to not have politics in an narrative driven game it is always at least indirectly criticising something about how the world works and or saying how the world should work so if you don’t have a game like Tetris that has no story at all you will always have politics in them and by saying you don’t want politics in games in that context the thing you actually mean is that you don’t want politics in games that don’t mache with your world-views what in on itself is ok I guess but at least own up to it (still cringe if you are an anti sjw type). And to go back to my second point the gaming industry gets literally raped by big cooperations that are buying smaller studios and closing them, and the quality of games is getting in a lot of cases worse because of an pure profit motive and the accompanying reduction in artistic freedoms
,an example for this is the catering to casuals that blizzard has done wich resulted in an degenerate Diablo 3 and the decline of wow, loot boxes, in game purchases, decline of single player.... tldr: if you don’t like lgbt stuff own up to it and be real. There are things that really fuck the gaming industry rn and it is not the gay agenda.
Except there are literally decades of story heavy games without it and they are beloved to this day (because stories don't age as badly as graphics or mechanics). The point is, "woke" games will never be considered classics, because they emphasize a knee jerk virtue signal to capitalize on the current state. Sorry, if i can call the story just by looking at the "cast", that is a terrible writing process right there. Once that state passes though, you are left with mediocre game mechanics, nonsensical storylines etc. But yes, that phenomenon is just another fad, just like the things you mentioned, except that it is politically charged and people are actually invested in keeping it going for reasons other than gaming. There is a reason why big companies make estimations on the base of target demographics. Most people simply tolerate those things, because most people don't spend hours on hours gaming, so if it makes a buck here or there, why not include it ? It's all about who you want to cater to and there is no right or wrong answer to that necessarily.
SpaceMonkeyEntertainment 1. examples of Storys driven games without politics in them would be nice
2. It is possible that I have just not played the games that got destroyed by being “woke” but I have literally never played a game that got destroyed by being “woke” . The only thing that I can think of is bl3 it has a horrible story with bad characters... it is trying to criticise social media stars in an pretty superficial way. If your problem is with bad stories that only base around an character being quirky and or are using token minorities then yes this is bad but I don’t see this happening. It dose not make an story bad to have marginalised groups in them and it dose not make an story bad if for example the story is based around being gay or has gay characters it is also not bad to have politics in stories it just needs to be well written. And just as an reminder if it is depicting the status quo it is also political just centrist aka having just straights/whites in games is also political . I just find it hypocritical that in an gaming series like battle field that is tbh not relevant for the story people all of an sudden cry because of women.
@@lost3291 Cause the woke games never expand beyond a certain niche demography, which is fine imo.
As for "Woke" games, it's hard to define what you mean in that context of definition.
Indont want politics in my games means i dont want YOU uses games for YOUR political propaganda.
Of course the Channel with a "nazi were people, bruh" would have a video about GamerGate being good, of course.
Are you seriously comparing Gamergaters to Nazis? The absurd lengths people go to just to demonize gamers would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
@@ValerioRhys explain why almost every single GamerGate talking head are now basically fascist.
@@NicolasCaja Nice strawman, care to give an example?
@@ValerioRhys Sargon, Styx, Razorfist, NoBullshit, Fat Otaku, Molyneux, that bear guy...
I can keep going, the hard thing is find ones that aren't basically simping for natsees right now.
@@NicolasCaja And they're being fascists how?
Well, and I'm a person condemning GamerGate in the year of our Lord 2020. Guess you brought that upon yourself :D
So... sorry mate, but your video starts with a lie. Or, to be more charitable, ignorance and massive disinformation.
The journalist in question never reviewed the developer's game, he mentioned it positively (and very briefly) in a short article that primarily was about several new indie games appearing on Steam (an event which, at the time, was still somewhat newsworthy), on a website which previously had covered the game very favorably (in articles from other journalists, who had no personal with the developer whatsoever, just to make that clear). Oh, and the alleged relationship happened AFTER that article was written. Furthermore, if journalistic integrity was really the aim of GamerGate, then why did they focus almost entirely on the developer, and not the journalist? There was a MASSIVE harassment campaign against her, including death threats, hacking, doxxing, and swatting. Sure, only a small minority of GG supporters participated in those actions - but there definitely was a sense in the wider "movement" that the developer basically brought it on herself, and the overall tone of GG was definitely misogynistic. However, a much larger group of open GG supporters did send insulting and harassing messages and tweets to the developer, so I'd say describing GamerGate as a "sexist harassment campaign" is entirely fair in retrospect.
Especially considering that the focus shifted very quickly on so-called "SJWs" somehow ruining the games industry with their feminism, lead by she-devil Anita Sarkeesian, who almost became GamerGate's enemy #1 (or at least #2), and also received a lot of harrassment. I certainly have some criticisms of Sarkeesian myself - but whatever you think of her, she had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of journalistic malpractice. So again, why did GamerGate care about her at all, if their prime concern was supposedly ETHICS IN VIDEO GAME JOURNALISM?
Of course not every individual GamerGate supporter was/is a bad person, not even the ones who sent insulting/harassing messages - in the heat of the moment, most people don't notice how they're snowflakes in an avalanche, and sites like Twitter or the YT comment sections of large channels are hellscapes were discourse goes to die. But the "movement" _as a whole_ was utterly poisoned pretty much from the start, no matter what legitimate concerns they may have had. (So, very few, in my opinion.)
Also, no further "corruption" was discovered. *None*. The closest "evidence" was the discovery of an industry-wide mailing list/discussion group for game journalists, but that is hardly an extraordinary thing, and far from "unethical". It is certainly true that game _publishers_ (though not small indie devs, lol) hold a large sway over video game publications, mainly via practices like review embargoes and exclusive preview events. But this has been known since long before GamerGate started, and has been vigorously criticized by some of the same people who were later called "corrupt" by GG (often just for the terrible crime of defending targeted individuals from harassment). For example, the website on which the article that started it all was published is an _independent outlet_, which has (and still regularly does) written against the practices of large publisher. In the undying words of one Sheev Palpatine: Ironic.
These are my criticisms just for the first 3 minutes or so of your video, and I don't want to write a novel here. You seem like a decent guy, but this video is, well, just flat-out wrong. If this turns into a discussion, I hope we can keep it civil (lolsob).
"Well, and I'm a person condemning GamerGate in the year of our Lord 2020.
Guess you brought that upon yourself :D
"
Ah hello again, Owl...I remember you, but I guess that's a concurrent thing in the current context again.
And I am person who was part of GamerGate since 2014-2017, so hello. (Although I've more leaning to GG than a part of nowadays)
"The journalist in question never reviewed the developer's game"
Yes, which is true, but it was still exposure without saying anything about their relationship (Romantic or not). However, the "Review" started from Anti-GG to try and do a lockdown on the LW1 Post. Sadly it stuck to this day, mostly infuriating any chronicler. -_-
As it gives this form of defence of Schrödinger's disbelief.
"Review" = Lie = From the shallow people who didn't research but the most known defence.
"Exposure" = "Lie" From the GG side. And as such it's just annoying as hell to break down.
Also, what about the Judge who also had relationship with LW and gave the win to her? Hmm?
And, they had contact LONG before any of their exposure, go check up the history a bit more.
"There was a MASSIVE harassment campaign against her, including death threats, hacking, doxxing, and swatting."
You DO Know what she did before GG? Remember where she used her group to attack people? She was a shitty person before getting the larger spotlight on her. SomethingAwful? TFYC? She already was hated long before for her vile actions affecting real life people.
"Sure, only a small minority of GG supporters participated in those actions - but there definitely was a sense in the wider "movement" that the developer basically brought it on herself, and the overall tone of GG was definitely misogynistic."
Certainly, a small part was vile and bashful (Although nothing about that in the FBI report...weirdly). And yes, she was hated for many things related to her previous history pre-GG. And if it was misogynistic, why were so many females celebrated and praised for showing their viewpoints on any of the forums where GG gathered? Weird isn't it?
"However, a much larger group of open GG supporters did send insulting and harassing messages and tweets to the developer, so I'd say describing GamerGate as a "sexist harassment campaign" is entirely fair in retrospect. "
Weasel Words again....It didn't take long, I guess.
While insults and harassing was common, you said "supporters" do you mean people who were in the core of GG gatherings or the #GamerGate? One of these are easier to prove while the other is a hashtag anyone can take. That's one of the issues of being a leaderless group where people just gather around a hashtag and cannot gatekeep or control the people using it. If you mean harass and such you must talk about Twitter as well due to how it works with #. Irrelevant and unproveable. While certainly a huge disdain was against LW1, it was very harsh, no matter from related to GG or not.
"Especially considering that the focus shifted very quickly on so-called "SJWs" somehow ruining the games industry with their feminism, lead by she-devil Anita Sarkeesian, who almost became GamerGate's enemy #1 (or at least #2), and also received a lot of harrassment. I certainly have some criticisms of Sarkeesian myself - but whatever you think of her, she had absolutely nothing to do with any kind of journalistic malpractice. So again, why did GamerGate care about her at all, if their prime concern was supposedly ETHICS IN VIDEO GAME JOURNALISM?
""
SJW was an umbrella term of many of the idealogists symptoms that kept unraveling over time, as such it was the adopted definition. Which was both ironically taken by the people as their identity or removal of it. And yes, the idealogy was changing the landscape in a more forced manner which many MANY of the Old Veterans Gamers in a direction that the majority did not enjoy (Force changed of Games creation is something that was VEHEMENTLY regressive for most of us that were active in the forums). Several cases was talked about ad naseum, such as Damsel in Distress (Which villified fricking Princess Peach for example?), forcing a view on a fictional beloved person into something that almost noone could understand or have any base of. Also, Anita has been a topic far before GamerGate existed, however, she atleast tried to do a change in the beginning in a more friendly manner but manipulation of said data willl make a harsh response from any gamer who played the games.
As for why she was important enough to become a question for GamerGate was related to how she was becoming the face of a change(And as stated, manipulation to show false and/or misleading view) was a huge red flag. While most of us could understand some part of her view of games, the many things that made no sense (Or straight up lies which was also common) made many people angry.
"Of course not every individual GamerGate supporter was/is a bad person, not even the ones who sent insulting/harassing messages - in the heat of the moment, most people don't notice how they're snowflakes in an avalanche, and sites like Twitter or the YT comment sections of large channels are hellscapes were discourse goes to die. But the "movement" as a whole was utterly poisoned pretty much from the start, no matter what legitimate concerns they may have had. (So, very few, in my opinion.) "
Of course, everyone had their own angry responses(And some went over the line, yes, but that's for any human).
Not sure what you mean by Poisoned from the start, if so you should stop brushing your teeth, not drive a car, and treat your dogs however you want and even murder them without repercusions. (If you know the history of these you should know that's a very illinformed view)
While YT and Twitter(especially with the word limit) is a hard place to argue, doesn't mean you may find a person in the midst.
"(So, very few, in my opinion.) "" Oh hello unethical practice, we meet again. Who cares about fairness or honesty? :) You made a game that took 13 years with love and effort, but the judge gave it to her husband due to the relationship values you didn't have. Oops?
"Also, no further "corruption" was discovered. *None*. The closest "evidence" was the discovery of an industry-wide mailing list/discussion group for game journalists, but that is hardly an extraordinary thing, and far from "unethical". It is certainly true that game publishers (though not small indie devs, lol) hold a large sway over video game publications, mainly via practices like review embargoes and exclusive preview events. But this has been known since long before GamerGate started, and has been vigorously criticized by some of the same people who were later called "corrupt" by GG (often just for the terrible crime of defending targeted individuals from harassment)."
GameJournopros was over 150 people gathered behind the scenes to form narrative or willfull change over developers who was trying to just survive but was strongarmed into certain design patterns which ruined their initial vision of their dream. You may call it whatever you think it is, but developers cannot do that to gain exposure, the very ESSENCE of wants from a developer.
And that wasn't the only one, go read up DeepFreeze and you'll see where the collusion(Although you called it corruption but whatever.) What about the other parts of it then? All the evidence of changes from journalists that was bought? The changes of the industry of unethical practices of game data being locked? There's far more than I can think of right now, but whatever. And yes, these "malicious" forms of change is not something many gamers liked (While trying to help the market it's hurting it more). Not sure what you mean by corrupt by GG? Cause there needs to be atleast some reason why you say that, have an example?
"For example, the website on which the article that started it all was published is an _independent outlet_, which has (and still regularly does) written against the practices of large publisher. In the undying words of one Sheev Palpatine: Ironic."
The article? LW1 Post? The Grayson one? Tumblr? 4Chan? Which article?.
"These are my criticisms just for the first 3 minutes or so of your video, and I don't want to write a novel here. You seem like a decent guy, but this video is, well, just flat-out wrong. If this turns into a discussion, I hope we can keep it civil (lolsob)."
Civil discource is something that GG wanted since day 1, sadly, it only happened 5 years after it ended. -_- So hello.
As for his information, yes. Some of it is wrong, that's why the comment field exists, luckily.
hello
I don't understand your view on trump.
He is very far from perfect, and there are a lot of problems with his policies, but he's not the devil you make him out to be.
Burger pretty accurately described him, as much so as Biden.
You must be really blind to see what Trump is doing to America now.
@@MatPost you mean what Democrat Governors are doing to America in an attempt to crash the economy to prevent Trump from winning 2020.
Trump isn't keeping the economy closed, that's the local governments who are so filled with Trump derangement syndrome that they are willing to do literally anything to try to get him out of office.
Trump is a clown, a narcistic clown, and this was before he got into politics. So you are correct not the devil just not fit for office, sadly neither is Biden.
bigbigchungus1000owo
Wait, it still exists today?
It continuously gets brought back by hack 'journalists' needing something to cry about when the world doesn't align with their psychosis...
They influenced almost everything in modern culture and politics today
Ahh gamergate,
Baby's first taste of Fascism
What?
Wtf. Hating corruption leads to Fascism now lol.
@@principleshipcoleoid8095 what?
@@EndMeNow69420 gamergate is about fighting corruption. People in mens rights movement don't really have anything to lose from being in Gamer Gate. They use political slander against each other as a joke because of it's absurdity.
@@principleshipcoleoid8095 yeah I know I know I watched Sargon back then and done the tweets and we won but still why people are still in 2012
I sometimes wonder if he is from left side of Germany or right.
He is from the stupid side.
Why not both :v
@@Itisjustasaganow both? How? Did his family lived in Berlin Wall XD?
@@Hunk666 well I think the left side is more stupid
You know that people can have different opinions regardless of their surroundings, right? Also, Germany as any democracy worty of that name has various political parties, each with a different combination of ideas
Why
just like harambe meme it was a sign of upcoming gen z. Them kids took it out of proportion and blew it up.
We're getting old now you know? im 20 so brace your selfs