@@PurpleIrishSweater Speaking as a Southerner... [Dan McClellan imitation here:] "This is accurate." 😄 Here in the South, "Coke" can be as generic a term for a carbonated beverage as "pop" or "soda."
I was going to say, "oh this guy gets more things right than the usual post Dan responds to," but then that ending... Did this guy just imply to that he is the second coming of Christ!?
Which is pretty amazing given that seems to somewhat suggest that he is Jesus at the end. Fascinating how delusions can make you a more reasonable person than religious dogmatism/fundamentalism.
@@sup3rdavid I personally don’t think he was really suggesting that. I think he was just emphasizing the fact that “people wouldn’t see the second coming if it looked them in the eye”, zooming in to his face to create a dramatic effect.
Where does the idea come from that Saint James would have been the head of the Church? I take it that Dr. McClellan is not talking about the historical evidence - since the earliest we have indicates it was Saint Paul who first travelled about the ancient Mediterranean, planting churches, and there is no compelling evidence to suggest that the _Logos_ literally became flesh (in a singular human person), nor that a flesh and blood human inserted himself as the Jesus present in Saint Paul's epistles. Furthermore, I am not aware of any (Apostolic) tradition which would deny that Pope Saint Peter was the Rock on which our Lord established His Church - "First Among Equals" in the Kingdom of God, in imitation of how the Roman Emperor was first among equals of Roman subjects.
Just in case, I recognize that the post-er IS the second coming. He clearly tried to give us a hint by looking closely in the camera to see his eyes. I thank him for cheating the system with the hint, and now offer my fealty to his glory.
A good portion of what the man has to say is accurate. Even Dan agrees with this assessment. As for his clear hostility towards Christianity, I think he has ample reason to be upset. People calling themselves Christians are currently inflicting tremendous cruelty on women, immigrants, minorities, gay people, educators, doctors, intellectuals and non-Christians of every stripe. There is nothing Christlike about that cruelty. A coke and a smile might help, but I think putting the brakes on the insanity (that word chosen deliberately and not for purposes of hyperbole) being pushed by so many churches, pastors and followers would go much, much further. I not only sympathize with this man, I empathize with him, and easily so.
If you read the Gospels without letting modern Christian interpretations influence you, you’ll see that cruelty is very Christlike. The fluffy hippie social justice warrior Jesus is a modern myth, not recognizable in the actual words of the Gospels
@@GreatBigBoreI get the impression that modern post-Christian Americans don't have any knowledge of the biblical Jesus as he is in the gospels (ornery and self-aggrandizing as he is). There's such a halo around him as to make him the holiness ideal for whatever group you're in, whether that's conservative Christian world or social justice activist aspiration. The first century Jewish faith healer can neither breathe nor speak aloud under the weight of our culture's expectations.
and it's free. I really appreciate that sort of thing. Meanwhile, one of my 2024 goals is to learn the Hebrew alphabet. (I deliberately make my goals achievable and buildable if possible. Last year I learned how to knit and purl. This year, I'm going to try and make a muffler that has a pattern in it. I have started twice and had to rip it out because I miscounted. I have a year to figure this out.)
@@andrestrevinovillegas3446 You need to go slowly and refer to what the author has told you. for example, Dr. McClellan is looking at linguistics. In the preface, he discusses terminology and how he defines certain words. For example, he uses the great poet Taylor Swift (yes, that Taylor Swift) as an example of how he uses the word "index". This is an academic book. It's not fantasy or narrative. The first sentence "This book is about the ways deity and divine power are conceptualized." To translate in layperson. .. how did the people of that time use symbols, language, 'scarves' to refer to god(s). For example, in modern times, Christians use the cross to refer to their deity. Cross is a 'scarf" index term to a Christian or anybody who has familiarity with that culture/religion. Suddenly, if you hear somebody say "That's your cross to bear", it's calling back to something in that text to that god. Dr. McClellan is an academic scholar. Words mean very precise things to him. So really study each sentence because he's trying to draw attention to well, how did these people refer to their god/god power? My advice.. go slow. It's an academic book, not a story book. It will not be easy but it will be informative. Good luck
@@andrestrevinovillegas3446 Maybe. This isn't my field of expertise either. That just means people like us have to go slower and ask lots and lots of questions and .. seek out new life and new civilizations.. okay... too much Star Trek. Just ask questions and keep on trying. That's all we can do. Maybe, as you read the book, you write down your thoughts? questions? During the live chats or just on this channel, you can ask those questions to the author himself. It's much easier than some dead middle eastern tribe of losers who apparently were proud of being lost in a desert for 40 years. (if I were writing this story, I'd be de-emphasizing how stupid my people are.)
When you're raised with so many of these dogmas, and then realize they're false, it's natural to be upset at those uncritically perpetuating them. I don't blame most believers for teaching what they were taught, but there are some individuals who have been corrected enough times that I still feel this same anger when they confidently repeat what they know probably isn't true.
A coke and a smile. Love it 😂 As an agnostic atheist, anti-theist and humanist (all rolled into one handsome package 😁), I encounter and debate many religious apologists but this man demonstrates that non-believers can be equally pedantic and unreasonable. He seems to think he is revealing some hidden truths and he is certainly a little too fervent.
The worst trick Jesus ever played was to wait around a couple thousand years watching his father lead his "chosen people" down the path of Judaic law only to finally show up and have Paul say on his behalf that they were no longer bound by the law. All they had to do was reject what they had been taught BY GOD for centuries and follow the new religion.
I’m pretty impressed with your demeanor in these reaction/response videos. Some of these theories people promote seem pretty out there to me. And I’m an atheist.
Hey Dan, great video as always! So you sounded so definitive that the traditional gospel "authors" aren't the actual authors, but can't we only say that the data doesn't support the conclusion? How can such an assertion be made? There can be no possible way to prove such a claim correct? If the text has information that could only be obtained post the deaths of the proposed traditional "authors" then that can only prove that there were additional authors and not that they weren't also authors. Am I correct in this assumption?
The "traditional authors", or more accurately the [Alleged] 'authors' that have traditionally been [arbitrarily] ascribed to the gospels, based on our understanding of them from all the mentions of them (both from within the gospels & from without) were neither Greeks nor Writers... they likely couldn't even write their own language of Hebrew (as they were just simple Fishermen & Laborers (ya know, "Peasants"), let alone write Aramaic or even the common Greek that the gospels were all written in. During that time & place very few people could read & write, and the Leaders, Rulers, and/or Ruling-Class [eg. 'Priestly' Caste] used that to their advantage (as well as using it as a Symbol of Status or Power). Moreover, the Style of writing (i.e. the methods, tools, and devices used) within the gospels is indicative of a more-or-less Professional Greek Story-Author; it would never have occurred to a common person in a mostly-illiterate culture to ever utilize literary devices, caricatures, and many other narrative & literature related things present within the gospels... least of all in a language they pretty much Certainly couldn't write and most likely also wouldn't have be able to Read or even Speak.
Great comment. The Greek shows that these were well educated men with a knowledge of Greco Roman literary devices. In this culture, gospels or writings were attributed to Apostles names to give them credence but they were not necessarily written by those authors. The Timothy letters and 2nd Peter are 2nd cent documents, anywhere from 120 to 140ce. The Timothy letters reflect a time when a hierarchy was beginning to be developed and the anti women stance is not something Paul would have written.
Men I would love for u to do a content with Billy Carson on some of this stuff because we all may watch u guys Chanel or content and may even do our own research accordingly to learn truths about religion. Just putting it aut there it’s so much to learn and relearn everything we been taught and told as children’s… we’re all in this together let’s start really connecting and communicating and try to have fun along the way….
Yeah, this is a real howler. We know that only Eusebius wrote like that, two centuries after Josephus. All of Josephus's writing we have today trace back to Eusebius's library copy. Eusebius understood that the wholesale lack of secular documentation of literally any detail about Jesus was a serious problem he sought to remedy. Clumsily.
*“Paul spent most of his life…”* Jesus’ ministry supposedly lasted up to 3 years. Paul supposedly “converted” almost immediately after Jesus died. So Paul couldn’t have been persecuting Christians for more than three years. Paul supposedly promoted Jesus for the next 30 years or so until Paul died. But the only evidence we have that Paul ever persecuted Christians is his own words, which may be mere propaganda for his argument.
Well, even if they would have been written by the 4 attributed authors (and were ignore the actual data on the matter), the only two that could have been written during Jesus’s lifetime would have been Matthew and John (and again, they weren’t but let’s roll with it for the sake of the discussion). The book of Mark it’s supposed to have been written by Peter’s assistant as dictated by Peter since Peter was supposed to be illiterate. That would suggest that it was worn much later in Peter’s life. As for the book of Luke, him being a friend of Paul means he couldn’t have written it during Jesus’s lifetime as he wouldn’t have been a convert at that time. As for the actual composers of the various books, there are some records that indicate there could have been some kind of book or writing by Matthew at one point, and it’s possible that the writer(s) of the book of Matthew may have adapted some of that into its composition. The same can be said for Mark, as there is some possibility that Peter had some kind of record of his account recorded at one point, but it’s highly unlikely that the book of Mark is that record. In summary, the likelihood of the books being composed by their attributed authors is infinitesimal, if not outright impossible. There is a slightly less impossible scenario where there were documents/records written by a couple of the attributed authors, and they may have served as the basis for the books we have record of today. However, we have no way of validating that unlikely scenario as the documents would be lost to time.
@@robertmoore2049 As an experiment, go through one of the Gospels (Mark is the shortest) and at any point ask yourself, "How would an eyewitness know that?" You'll find some episodes that simply could not have been observed by any witness. For example Mark 1:35 has Jesus going to a deserted place where he can pray. If the place was deserted, how could the witness see it? Just one of many examples.
I was raised in ultra conservative fundamental Christian church/home and this is exactly what they taught. I was almost 35 when I heard for first time.
The gospels all describe Jesus's death and resurrection. They describe these events as having happened in the past. Even if we take them all at face value, and accept the traditional authorship attributed to them (which none of them claim), from a purely chronological point of view, the earliest any of them could have been written was after the events they describe.
This is an unrelated question, but are elohim and yhwh different gods? Most of what i find when i google it is from religious sources that have the whole univocal structure behind their explanations on how the creation stories disagree. Also what’s the story with elyon being the most high god assigning authority over the line of joseph from Deuteronomy 32:8-9? Are elohim, yhwh and elroi brothers/sons of elyon? My question is based on schtuff i learned from Amy-Jill Levine’s course on the Old Testament.
One would expect Christ and Christians to predate Mark's application of the former to his literary Jesus figure or Luke's appropriation of the latter for his congregations of Gentile Jesus followers.
After the 4th or 5th "this is accurate" I found myself seriously rooting for this guy and hoping Dan wouldn't have to bring the hammer down before it was over 😆
If nothing else, it was an interesting study in contrasting affects, with reasonable evidence as the common ground between them. It's also possible to see the influence of emotional state on reason. (This is purely a study in human factors, not a determination of who is right and wrong necessarily.) Any of us can get carried away by strong emotions, especially when we perceive an injustice being committed. The outrage is understandable, but it easily leads to hyperbolic inference. And, unfortunately, hyperbole undermines the case being presented. A calm disciplined presentation is more persuasive because it more readily makes its case through access to reason rather than emotion. There's a lesson here for all of us. Emotional discipline makes any reasonable case look better.
*Religion in Torah* Merriam-Webster’s #1 definition of Religion is pretty close to how I have understood the word used: “personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices” That concept is in the Torah repeatedly. The other presenter says Jesus was against religion but Matthew’s Jesus approvingly said every _iota_ and _keraia_ of the Law would be fulfilled
You mentioned the writings of Josephus. I was under the impression that the general consensus was that his mention of Jesus was a later insertion. Could you elaborate on that, and correct me if I'm wrong?
Josephus wrote about Jesus but later on when his writing was being copied one scribe felt it necessary to add his own views of Jesus as if Josephus wrote them himself. It is falsification of manuscripts.
IIRC off the top of my head there are a couple of mentions. One says (using wikipedia for approx. reference) Jesus was the messiah, and was crucified by Pontius Pilate. This is the part that is considered to be at least altered if not fully inserted by later Christians. There's another line where Josephus refers to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James." And this is I think what Dan was referring to, and more commonly considered authentic. Note that this like is not himself Josephus calling Jesus 'Christ,' (unlike the inauthentic line, which calls Jesus the Messiah) but is saying that others called Jesus 'Christ.'
Dan said in an older video on TikTok that the passage we have was likely forged or altered by Eusebius, and it has some Christian terminology not found in other parts of Antiquities.
As far as a successor, what about the statement at the end of Matthew that on Peter the church would be built and Peter would be given the keys to the kingdom of heaven?
I thought he was going to end with what Jesus would think about Christians and Christian theology, and about the stars of Christianity who make the big bucks.
He got pretty close, but it feels like he's decided that, having read the bible, everybody else has got it wrong except him. His way is The Right Way. There's a word for that...oh yeah. Religion.
No, rewatch that portion carefully. He's referring to Paul. Im not a Pauline expert, but Paul talks about 14 years in Galatians referring to some period of time from his calling to recent times after writing to the Galatians. Evidently he continues until imprisonmemt and death. It goes around more or less 20 years. Its not less than 5 years!
@@2023-better-research the portion of the video I’m referring to is where the OP said Paul spent most of his life persecuting Christians, which acts makes seem like is only a period of a few years following Jesus death. It’s not about the length of his ministry.
I've no idea who this dude is, but I get the feeling he's more motivated to cast off the old crew than to be historically helpful because he's the new boy in town with the DL on God's "true message".
He might need to lighten up a bit ! He might have made a few inaccurate statements ? However he has to contend with Biblical literalists - who mostly don't know anything that is literally don't know anything !
The guy is pretty game on. I was surprised at Dan's comment at the end. The guy is generally right. (Incidentally, why did Jesus not appear to his other brothers and sisters? Seems only James latched onto this potential money-spinner!)
It's not easy to accept that what you have been brought up "believing" and have accustomed to have "faith" in is very dubious at best. Unfortunately, most people refuse to "wake up" (become "woke"?) and prefer to continue "believing", instead of stepping back and figuring out what really makes sense.
No, he's telling us he's angry. Angry at all the cruelty being dished out by people calling themselves Christians. I get it. There's a lot to be angry about with modern American Christianity.
"Christians aren't Christian, chips aren't potatoes, and I just found out my Shiba Inu dog Rex is an Abbysinian cat named Mittens; I'm somewhere between hostile and completely dejected and have decided to make a video about only one of these issues!"
Question (though you probably amswered it before, sorry), that pronunciation of YHWH, where's that come from? I mean I can imagine that the popular [YAH-wei] is probably more of a modern... anglecized(?) pronunciation of a possible interpretation of how it's meant to be read. Where does all that come from?
Are you refering to Dan saying "Adonai" as a substitute for saying YHWH? Adonai means "Lord" and he says that instead of YHWH as a show of respect to Jewish viewers. To pronounce YHWH is seen a a taboo or even blasphemy in Jewish culture, depending on how strict you are. Though, if I recall correctly, he will say YHWH at academic conferences as that is the academic standard
@@benbrill7828I actually find it curious that Dan uses Adonai. Most Jews would only use that word during prayer. When referring to the divine name outside of prayer, they usually use "HaShem", meaning "the name".
As someone who is more on the agnostic / atheist side of things, I can certainly empathise with where this guy is coming from, but a few of those generalizations are a little fast and loose and don't really help his case IMO.
What I find most damning for "Christianity" is that Jesus didn't make it clear to his followers that many many generations would rely on their memories of following him. God tricked us again.
Oscar etc: This is true, but he told them, allegedly, that it would all be over before the deaths of many present at the time. On the other hand, the failure of Paul to write anything substantial and significant about James "the brother of the Lord" suggests to me that this was not a blood relative of the "Jesus" character. If he WERE a blood brother, there are SO many things he could have made clear to Paul and Paul could have conveyed to his audience in his writings. It is THIS, among other things, that makes me think the whole thing is bunkum.
Dan, no one, even the most orthodox, in Judaism or Christianity claims that God physically wrote down the Tanakh or the NT. A distinction needs to be made between writing as a physical act and writing as composition. The question of whether God is the ultimate composer of (the one who revealed or inspired) the Bible is not a historical question, it's a matter of faith.
Wait, what was that at the end where he was talking about "wouldn't recognize the second coming if it was looking then in the eye?" Is he saying he's Jesus? Plot twist!
Jesus was very “religious” in the sense that almost every piece of advice he gave was rooted in your relationship with the Jewish god - notice that every time he mentioned the poor, he didn’t appeal to our compassion about their suffering, he reminded us that our treatment of the poor is our way of impressing his god. Sell your possessions and give to the poor, and what? The poor will suffer less? No. You’ll have treasure in heaven. I think it’s fair to say that’s very much religious, and very little compassionate
I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as "impressing God". Purity of intent is a pretty central part of the teachings. If you love your neighbour for the sake of extracting a reward from a third party, I would argue that's not actually loving your neighbour. I could always get into the whole debate about altruism being inherently selfish, but I find that to be quite a self-defeating display of semantics. I think it's more worthwhile to interrogate how we use the word "compassion". Is it more compassionate to materially help the poor with ulterior motives or to treat the poor with love and kindness and do nothing to actually change their economic hardships? For me, the most satisfying way of framing compassion is in one person identifying a sort of bond or kinship with another person and seeing them as an extension of yourself. Jesus's teachings and the moral framework of us all being servants of the same benevolent force, and that our mandate from this force is to love one another without judgement or hate -- these can be quite conducive to compassion in my view.
I'm not exactly what you'd call "pro-religion," but I think the gentleman in the video being reviewed/responded to has a few too many axes to grind and not enough grindstones, and that's making him extra-cranky. :-)
If it's accurate to say the gospels have anonymous authors, how is can it be accurate to say that Mattw didn't write Matthew, etc ? At best we don't know
I think, but don't nail me to a cross, that they knew of (believed in) many gods, but that it wasn't as formalised and organised as "religions" are now.
Paul call him the khristos, he wrote in Greek and or Latin, he was a Roman citizen. Khristos in English is Christ. So people start using the English word Christ for another 1,000+ years, English isn't that d of a language. The Apostles who walked with him called him the Moshiach, in English it's Messiah
@@maklelan could only find references of Messiah not Christ could have used Christ because it's derived from Greek meaning anointed. The city of Nazareth was not founded until the ace.
Apocalyptic explanation, maybe. Yet could Yeshua even write? Moreover, was he literate? Did he know any Greek? No one truly knows who authored each gospel and when (even in which order despite prevailing scholarly theories). Saying "This is accurate." might be better stated "This is majority opinion."
I had the same exact thought. Dan sounded so definitive, but can't we only say that the data doesn't support the conclusion? How can such an assertion be made? There can be no possible way to prove such a claim. If the text has information that could only be obtained post the deaths of the proposed traditional "authors" then that can only prove that there were additional authors and not that they weren't also authors.
On balance I would say this guy is pretty close to being accurate despite not knowing his apostles. He should listen to Dan and correct himself. This is enlightening stuff.
Ugh. I wanted to give someone a copy as a gift, but that price tag stings. I'm guessing because it's being used as a college textbook. Publishers will quintuple a reasonable price for a book if they know it's being used as a college textbook (Gardner's Art Through the Ages, for example)
@@TestUser-cf4wj Give the link as a gift. There is a reason that Dan has kept the book open-source so far. It is really a substantial and interesting book but not an easy read. I've been working through it for more than a week so far and I have learned a bunch. If I ever get to meet Dan, i plan to give him the Amazon price, at least.
The letter J was invented in 1528. The word Christ was invented in the 11th century. SO, that means his name was not Jesus, and he was not called The Christ until AFTER those elements were invented, CHECK HISTORY people it always shows the lies of the religions.
“Coke and a smile” - priceless!!
“…makes me feel good inside” 🎶 - I guess Dan has followed the Greek texts into the 1970’s
A _caffeine free_ Coke, I assume, good Mormon that he is.
Other sodas are available
@@bristolrovers27 in some places in America the word “Coke” is synonymous with “pop” and “soda” 🤷🏻♀️
@@PurpleIrishSweater Speaking as a Southerner... [Dan McClellan imitation here:] "This is accurate." 😄
Here in the South, "Coke" can be as generic a term for a carbonated beverage as "pop" or "soda."
I was going to say, "oh this guy gets more things right than the usual post Dan responds to," but then that ending...
Did this guy just imply to that he is the second coming of Christ!?
Maybe, I can see how that is the take away but I think it’s more likely he’s just emphasizing his point.
Whatever he was doing it gave me the creeps.
@DrPsychofraculator same. Bro implied that he was Jesus, Mark II.
I must say, this guy actually is fairly reasonable (besides his comment at the ending) compared to the many other ones that Dan has had to correct.
Which is pretty amazing given that seems to somewhat suggest that he is Jesus at the end. Fascinating how delusions can make you a more reasonable person than religious dogmatism/fundamentalism.
@@sup3rdavidI don't see how he said he's Jesus.
@@sup3rdavid I personally don’t think he was really suggesting that. I think he was just emphasizing the fact that “people wouldn’t see the second coming if it looked them in the eye”, zooming in to his face to create a dramatic effect.
Where does the idea come from that Saint James would have been the head of the Church? I take it that Dr. McClellan is not talking about the historical evidence - since the earliest we have indicates it was Saint Paul who first travelled about the ancient Mediterranean, planting churches, and there is no compelling evidence to suggest that the _Logos_ literally became flesh (in a singular human person), nor that a flesh and blood human inserted himself as the Jesus present in Saint Paul's epistles.
Furthermore, I am not aware of any (Apostolic) tradition which would deny that Pope Saint Peter was the Rock on which our Lord established His Church - "First Among Equals" in the Kingdom of God, in imitation of how the Roman Emperor was first among equals of Roman subjects.
@@ChristianCarrizales yeah and he really doesn't seem the type to say he is Jesus.
Just in case, I recognize that the post-er IS the second coming. He clearly tried to give us a hint by looking closely in the camera to see his eyes.
I thank him for cheating the system with the hint, and now offer my fealty to his glory.
Good work. Not enough people be fealting these days.
I feel like he's going to stuff me in a locker if I don't confess that he's the Christ! 😅
One thing is for certain: there is no stopping him; he will soon be here. And I for one welcome our new insect overlord.
Is it too late to get on board and lock down a high priest position?
I am also Anti-National Football League.
XFL orthodox!
CFL - predates NFL.
I can be anti-NFL after tomorrow, depending on the outcome.
Go CHIEFS!
🤣
@@PurpleIrishSweater How about anti-organized sports?
Since they don't play football, I agree. I am pro EPL, where they actually play football.
A good portion of what the man has to say is accurate. Even Dan agrees with this assessment. As for his clear hostility towards Christianity, I think he has ample reason to be upset. People calling themselves Christians are currently inflicting tremendous cruelty on women, immigrants, minorities, gay people, educators, doctors, intellectuals and non-Christians of every stripe. There is nothing Christlike about that cruelty. A coke and a smile might help, but I think putting the brakes on the insanity (that word chosen deliberately and not for purposes of hyperbole) being pushed by so many churches, pastors and followers would go much, much further. I not only sympathize with this man, I empathize with him, and easily so.
Most right wing christians if they hate anyone hate white women the most and only dislike some people of those other groups
yeah but then he kinda said 'I am he'
If you read the Gospels without letting modern Christian interpretations influence you, you’ll see that cruelty is very Christlike. The fluffy hippie social justice warrior Jesus is a modern myth, not recognizable in the actual words of the Gospels
@@GreatBigBoreI get the impression that modern post-Christian Americans don't have any knowledge of the biblical Jesus as he is in the gospels (ornery and self-aggrandizing as he is). There's such a halo around him as to make him the holiness ideal for whatever group you're in, whether that's conservative Christian world or social justice activist aspiration. The first century Jewish faith healer can neither breathe nor speak aloud under the weight of our culture's expectations.
it's likely this guy and his Real Jesus might think modern christians are insufficiently cruel to some of those groups.
My man Dan pulls out YHWH's Divine Images every chance he gets 😅
and it's free. I really appreciate that sort of thing. Meanwhile, one of my 2024 goals is to learn the Hebrew alphabet. (I deliberately make my goals achievable and buildable if possible. Last year I learned how to knit and purl. This year, I'm going to try and make a muffler that has a pattern in it. I have started twice and had to rip it out because I miscounted. I have a year to figure this out.)
@@jenniferhunter4074 i tried reading it, I didn't get it.
@@andrestrevinovillegas3446 You need to go slowly and refer to what the author has told you. for example, Dr. McClellan is looking at linguistics. In the preface, he discusses terminology and how he defines certain words. For example, he uses the great poet Taylor Swift (yes, that Taylor Swift) as an example of how he uses the word "index".
This is an academic book. It's not fantasy or narrative. The first sentence
"This book is about the ways deity and divine power are conceptualized."
To translate in layperson. .. how did the people of that time use symbols, language, 'scarves' to refer to god(s). For example, in modern times, Christians use the cross to refer to their deity. Cross is a 'scarf" index term to a Christian or anybody who has familiarity with that culture/religion. Suddenly, if you hear somebody say "That's your cross to bear", it's calling back to something in that text to that god.
Dr. McClellan is an academic scholar. Words mean very precise things to him. So really study each sentence because he's trying to draw attention to well, how did these people refer to their god/god power?
My advice.. go slow. It's an academic book, not a story book. It will not be easy but it will be informative. Good luck
@@jenniferhunter4074 I think it's just too advance for me. I would need more basic reading beforehand.
@@andrestrevinovillegas3446 Maybe. This isn't my field of expertise either. That just means people like us have to go slower and ask lots and lots of questions and .. seek out new life and new civilizations.. okay... too much Star Trek.
Just ask questions and keep on trying. That's all we can do. Maybe, as you read the book, you write down your thoughts? questions? During the live chats or just on this channel, you can ask those questions to the author himself. It's much easier than some dead middle eastern tribe of losers who apparently were proud of being lost in a desert for 40 years. (if I were writing this story, I'd be de-emphasizing how stupid my people are.)
Probably my favorite response video that you've done. Keep up the good work!
You slayed me with that last comment.☠️💀
How can I make that my ringtone?
Nailed the ending Dan. Thank you for your service! :D
Ghost Pappy heard this ol boy talkin on Dan's video and asked me "Who peed in that feller's cereal bowl this mornin'?"
😆😅🤣
We need a scare warning for the end. 😆
When you're raised with so many of these dogmas, and then realize they're false, it's natural to be upset at those uncritically perpetuating them. I don't blame most believers for teaching what they were taught, but there are some individuals who have been corrected enough times that I still feel this same anger when they confidently repeat what they know probably isn't true.
A coke and a smile. Love it 😂
As an agnostic atheist, anti-theist and humanist (all rolled into one handsome package 😁), I encounter and debate many religious apologists but this man demonstrates that non-believers can be equally pedantic and unreasonable. He seems to think he is revealing some hidden truths and he is certainly a little too fervent.
The worst trick Jesus ever played was to wait around a couple thousand years watching his father lead his "chosen people" down the path of Judaic law only to finally show up and have Paul say on his behalf that they were no longer bound by the law. All they had to do was reject what they had been taught BY GOD for centuries and follow the new religion.
I'm certain he felt he was delivering revelation to someone. God help whoever that is.
@@MrMortal_Ra he literally was speaking against Evangelicals?
Gods that don’t exist can’t help anyone.
Did NOT expect that ending LOL!
I’m pretty impressed with your demeanor in these reaction/response videos. Some of these theories people promote seem pretty out there to me. And I’m an atheist.
Very very interesting input from the "outside."
A little learning is a dangerous thing....
Also I enjoy the idea of true and false information u agree or disagree with and put out on ur content this is a new ride along on my behalf…
Refreshing to hear the truth spoken! Thanks for this.
Hey Dan, great video as always! So you sounded so definitive that the traditional gospel "authors" aren't the actual authors, but can't we only say that the data doesn't support the conclusion? How can such an assertion be made? There can be no possible way to prove such a claim correct?
If the text has information that could only be obtained post the deaths of the proposed traditional "authors" then that can only prove that there were additional authors and not that they weren't also authors. Am I correct in this assumption?
The "traditional authors", or more accurately the [Alleged] 'authors' that have traditionally been [arbitrarily] ascribed to the gospels, based on our understanding of them from all the mentions of them (both from within the gospels & from without) were neither Greeks nor Writers... they likely couldn't even write their own language of Hebrew (as they were just simple Fishermen & Laborers (ya know, "Peasants"), let alone write Aramaic or even the common Greek that the gospels were all written in. During that time & place very few people could read & write, and the Leaders, Rulers, and/or Ruling-Class [eg. 'Priestly' Caste] used that to their advantage (as well as using it as a Symbol of Status or Power).
Moreover, the Style of writing (i.e. the methods, tools, and devices used) within the gospels is indicative of a more-or-less Professional Greek Story-Author; it would never have occurred to a common person in a mostly-illiterate culture to ever utilize literary devices, caricatures, and many other narrative & literature related things present within the gospels... least of all in a language they pretty much Certainly couldn't write and most likely also wouldn't have be able to Read or even Speak.
Great comment. The Greek shows that these were well educated men with a knowledge of Greco Roman literary devices. In this culture, gospels or writings were attributed to Apostles names to give them credence but they were not necessarily written by those authors. The Timothy letters and 2nd Peter are 2nd cent documents, anywhere from 120 to 140ce. The Timothy letters reflect a time when a hierarchy was beginning to be developed and the anti women stance is not something Paul would have written.
Men I would love for u to do a content with Billy Carson on some of this stuff because we all may watch u guys Chanel or content and may even do our own research accordingly to learn truths about religion. Just putting it aut there it’s so much to learn and relearn everything we been taught and told as children’s… we’re all in this together let’s start really connecting and communicating and try to have fun along the way….
Thanks! I appreciate your work.
I have a question. Aren't the Christian passages in Josephus disputed?
You bet they are! And we know exactly who inserted the Testimonium Flavinium. The other one is probably a run-of-the-mill scribal error.
The confidence with which these people get the absolute most basic information wrong. 🤦♂️
.....and now for something totally different "Heres my new book, gods divine images".
Coke and a smile and sit out a couple of plays.... Brilliant! 🤣
This guy is great.
That is one very angry little man.
Do you really rate the Testimonium Flavianum as authentic? To what extent?
Yeah, this is a real howler. We know that only Eusebius wrote like that, two centuries after Josephus. All of Josephus's writing we have today trace back to Eusebius's library copy. Eusebius understood that the wholesale lack of secular documentation of literally any detail about Jesus was a serious problem he sought to remedy. Clumsily.
*“Paul spent most of his life…”*
Jesus’ ministry supposedly lasted up to 3 years. Paul supposedly “converted” almost immediately after Jesus died. So Paul couldn’t have been persecuting Christians for more than three years. Paul supposedly promoted Jesus for the next 30 years or so until Paul died.
But the only evidence we have that Paul ever persecuted Christians is his own words, which may be mere propaganda for his argument.
LOL @maklelan - that ending tho’! 😂
I always thought the Gospels were written while Jesus was still on earth. I guess I am wrong…
@@MrMortal_Ra Christian friends of mine. They told me the Gospels were eyewitness accounts of Jesus.
Well, even if they would have been written by the 4 attributed authors (and were ignore the actual data on the matter), the only two that could have been written during Jesus’s lifetime would have been Matthew and John (and again, they weren’t but let’s roll with it for the sake of the discussion). The book of Mark it’s supposed to have been written by Peter’s assistant as dictated by Peter since Peter was supposed to be illiterate. That would suggest that it was worn much later in Peter’s life. As for the book of Luke, him being a friend of Paul means he couldn’t have written it during Jesus’s lifetime as he wouldn’t have been a convert at that time.
As for the actual composers of the various books, there are some records that indicate there could have been some kind of book or writing by Matthew at one point, and it’s possible that the writer(s) of the book of Matthew may have adapted some of that into its composition. The same can be said for Mark, as there is some possibility that Peter had some kind of record of his account recorded at one point, but it’s highly unlikely that the book of Mark is that record.
In summary, the likelihood of the books being composed by their attributed authors is infinitesimal, if not outright impossible. There is a slightly less impossible scenario where there were documents/records written by a couple of the attributed authors, and they may have served as the basis for the books we have record of today. However, we have no way of validating that unlikely scenario as the documents would be lost to time.
@@robertmoore2049 As an experiment, go through one of the Gospels (Mark is the shortest) and at any point ask yourself, "How would an eyewitness know that?"
You'll find some episodes that simply could not have been observed by any witness. For example Mark 1:35 has Jesus going to a deserted place where he can pray. If the place was deserted, how could the witness see it?
Just one of many examples.
I was raised in ultra conservative fundamental Christian church/home and this is exactly what they taught. I was almost 35 when I heard for first time.
The gospels all describe Jesus's death and resurrection. They describe these events as having happened in the past. Even if we take them all at face value, and accept the traditional authorship attributed to them (which none of them claim), from a purely chronological point of view, the earliest any of them could have been written was after the events they describe.
This is an unrelated question, but are elohim and yhwh different gods? Most of what i find when i google it is from religious sources that have the whole univocal structure behind their explanations on how the creation stories disagree. Also what’s the story with elyon being the most high god assigning authority over the line of joseph from Deuteronomy 32:8-9? Are elohim, yhwh and elroi brothers/sons of elyon? My question is based on schtuff i learned from Amy-Jill Levine’s course on the Old Testament.
Always interesting how these creators seem like they are saying new and profound things when they really are fairly pedestrian.
One would expect Christ and Christians to predate Mark's application of the former to his literary Jesus figure or Luke's appropriation of the latter for his congregations of Gentile Jesus followers.
I have been watching these videos for some time. This is the first real howler, treating Eusebius's Josephus interpolations as if authentic.
After the 4th or 5th "this is accurate" I found myself seriously rooting for this guy and hoping Dan wouldn't have to bring the hammer down before it was over 😆
If nothing else, it was an interesting study in contrasting affects, with reasonable evidence as the common ground between them.
It's also possible to see the influence of emotional state on reason. (This is purely a study in human factors, not a determination of who is right and wrong necessarily.) Any of us can get carried away by strong emotions, especially when we perceive an injustice being committed. The outrage is understandable, but it easily leads to hyperbolic inference. And, unfortunately, hyperbole undermines the case being presented. A calm disciplined presentation is more persuasive because it more readily makes its case through access to reason rather than emotion.
There's a lesson here for all of us. Emotional discipline makes any reasonable case look better.
*Religion in Torah*
Merriam-Webster’s #1 definition of Religion is pretty close to how I have understood the word used: “personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices”
That concept is in the Torah repeatedly.
The other presenter says Jesus was against religion but Matthew’s Jesus approvingly said every _iota_ and _keraia_ of the Law would be fulfilled
Lol that last line got me 😂
Well done Dan! Thank you!
Thanks 4 another useful presentation
You mentioned the writings of Josephus. I was under the impression that the general consensus was that his mention of Jesus was a later insertion. Could you elaborate on that, and correct me if I'm wrong?
Josephus wrote about Jesus but later on when his writing was being copied one scribe felt it necessary to add his own views of Jesus as if Josephus wrote them himself. It is falsification of manuscripts.
IIRC off the top of my head there are a couple of mentions. One says (using wikipedia for approx. reference) Jesus was the messiah, and was crucified by Pontius Pilate. This is the part that is considered to be at least altered if not fully inserted by later Christians.
There's another line where Josephus refers to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James." And this is I think what Dan was referring to, and more commonly considered authentic. Note that this like is not himself Josephus calling Jesus 'Christ,' (unlike the inauthentic line, which calls Jesus the Messiah) but is saying that others called Jesus 'Christ.'
Dan said in an older video on TikTok that the passage we have was likely forged or altered by Eusebius, and it has some Christian terminology not found in other parts of Antiquities.
@@MrMortal_RaMy welcome?
@@MrMortal_Ra I was paraphrasing what I remembered. He didn't say it was completely forged, but thank you for bringing me to your attention.
Coke and a smile
Well played sir. Well played.
I feel smarter every time I listen to Dan. And I don't care about the NFL either.
As far as a successor, what about the statement at the end of Matthew that on Peter the church would be built and Peter would be given the keys to the kingdom of heaven?
Hell Boy shirt , love it.
"He was Anti-religion, just like I am."
Ooh badass.
Me too.
I thought he was going to end with what Jesus would think about Christians and Christian theology, and about the stars of Christianity who make the big bucks.
The guy was going pretty strong if he was trying to make an argument but then the more he talked the more misinformation was heard.
Good Lord 😮😅😂
If I am not mistaken, this is the guy (the one in the woods) who was jailed for being with a 12-year-old girl.
Awesomeness
He got pretty close, but it feels like he's decided that, having read the bible, everybody else has got it wrong except him. His way is The Right Way. There's a word for that...oh yeah. Religion.
That dude is like Ricky Berwin's friend Bill all grown old.
I would still like to hold onto my naïve belief that Jesus opposed the NFL.
4:35, “most of his life” is an odd way of describing a period which, by all accounts, was likely less than 5 years
No, rewatch that portion carefully. He's referring to Paul. Im not a Pauline expert, but Paul talks about 14 years in Galatians referring to some period of time from his calling to recent times after writing to the Galatians. Evidently he continues until imprisonmemt and death. It goes around more or less 20 years. Its not less than 5 years!
@@2023-better-research the portion of the video I’m referring to is where the OP said Paul spent most of his life persecuting Christians, which acts makes seem like is only a period of a few years following Jesus death. It’s not about the length of his ministry.
@@chables74 Yes you're right. It's 4:30 and not 4:35 like you typed. Its from 4:30 to 4:38.
@@2023-better-research Mia culpa! Time stamps are always a little finicky.
I've no idea who this dude is, but I get the feeling he's more motivated to cast off the old crew than to be historically helpful because he's the new boy in town with the DL on God's "true message".
While Josephus was rejecting the title Christ's, there were still living witnesses to the life of Christus.
There is not the slightest hint of evidence for that, and no plausible reason to expect it is true.
@@sciptick Only Peter's bones the spread of Christianity under brutal persecution, and more references to Christ than Julius Caesar.
He might need to lighten up a bit ! He might have made a few inaccurate statements ? However he has to contend with Biblical literalists - who mostly don't know anything that is literally don't know anything !
The guy is pretty game on. I was surprised at Dan's comment at the end. The guy is generally right. (Incidentally, why did Jesus not appear to his other brothers and sisters? Seems only James latched onto this potential money-spinner!)
It's not easy to accept that what you have been brought up "believing" and have accustomed to have "faith" in is very dubious at best.
Unfortunately, most people refuse to "wake up" (become "woke"?) and prefer to continue "believing", instead of stepping back and figuring out what really makes sense.
Gimli isn't handling the after the way very well
Is he trying to tell us that he is the second coming? Oh God, no. Just no.
No, he's telling us he's angry. Angry at all the cruelty being dished out by people calling themselves Christians. I get it. There's a lot to be angry about with modern American Christianity.
@@TestUser-cf4wj I agree im angry with them for their anti wh.ite women standpoint
Even Jesus knew the NFL was a mess lol
I loved this one! Watch until the end 😂
"Christians aren't Christian, chips aren't potatoes, and I just found out my Shiba Inu dog Rex is an Abbysinian cat named Mittens; I'm somewhere between hostile and completely dejected and have decided to make a video about only one of these issues!"
I can't even😂😂😂
1 Timothy 1.15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation that Christ Jesus come into the world to save sinners of whom I am chief.
Question (though you probably amswered it before, sorry), that pronunciation of YHWH, where's that come from? I mean I can imagine that the popular [YAH-wei] is probably more of a modern... anglecized(?) pronunciation of a possible interpretation of how it's meant to be read. Where does all that come from?
Are you refering to Dan saying "Adonai" as a substitute for saying YHWH? Adonai means "Lord" and he says that instead of YHWH as a show of respect to Jewish viewers. To pronounce YHWH is seen a a taboo or even blasphemy in Jewish culture, depending on how strict you are. Though, if I recall correctly, he will say YHWH at academic conferences as that is the academic standard
@@benbrill7828I actually find it curious that Dan uses Adonai. Most Jews would only use that word during prayer. When referring to the divine name outside of prayer, they usually use "HaShem", meaning "the name".
As someone who is more on the agnostic / atheist side of things, I can certainly empathise with where this guy is coming from, but a few of those generalizations are a little fast and loose and don't really help his case IMO.
Was that guy dropping hints that he is the returning Jesus?
What I find most damning for "Christianity" is that Jesus didn't make it clear to his followers that many many generations would rely on their memories of following him.
God tricked us again.
Oscar etc: This is true, but he told them, allegedly, that it would all be over before the deaths of many present at the time.
On the other hand, the failure of Paul to write anything substantial and significant about James "the brother of the Lord" suggests to me that this was not a blood relative of the "Jesus" character. If he WERE a blood brother, there are SO many things he could have made clear to Paul and Paul could have conveyed to his audience in his writings. It is THIS, among other things, that makes me think the whole thing is bunkum.
Dan, no one, even the most orthodox, in Judaism or Christianity claims that God physically wrote down the Tanakh or the NT. A distinction needs to be made between writing as a physical act and writing as composition. The question of whether God is the ultimate composer of (the one who revealed or inspired) the Bible is not a historical question, it's a matter of faith.
As we all know, Jesus only had one grandfather.
But what was his name ?
Hello Dan. How old was Mary when she gave birth to Jesus?
Wait, what was that at the end where he was talking about "wouldn't recognize the second coming if it was looking then in the eye?"
Is he saying he's Jesus? Plot twist!
Jesus was very “religious” in the sense that almost every piece of advice he gave was rooted in your relationship with the Jewish god - notice that every time he mentioned the poor, he didn’t appeal to our compassion about their suffering, he reminded us that our treatment of the poor is our way of impressing his god. Sell your possessions and give to the poor, and what? The poor will suffer less? No. You’ll have treasure in heaven. I think it’s fair to say that’s very much religious, and very little compassionate
I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as "impressing God". Purity of intent is a pretty central part of the teachings. If you love your neighbour for the sake of extracting a reward from a third party, I would argue that's not actually loving your neighbour. I could always get into the whole debate about altruism being inherently selfish, but I find that to be quite a self-defeating display of semantics. I think it's more worthwhile to interrogate how we use the word "compassion". Is it more compassionate to materially help the poor with ulterior motives or to treat the poor with love and kindness and do nothing to actually change their economic hardships? For me, the most satisfying way of framing compassion is in one person identifying a sort of bond or kinship with another person and seeing them as an extension of yourself. Jesus's teachings and the moral framework of us all being servants of the same benevolent force, and that our mandate from this force is to love one another without judgement or hate -- these can be quite conducive to compassion in my view.
The guy Dan is reviewing actually has points Dan agrees with.
Not as I'll informed as other, although creepy and somewhat seems mental.
I'm not exactly what you'd call "pro-religion," but I think the gentleman in the video being reviewed/responded to has a few too many axes to grind and not enough grindstones, and that's making him extra-cranky. :-)
If it's accurate to say the gospels have anonymous authors, how is can it be accurate to say that Mattw didn't write Matthew, etc ? At best we don't know
When you say they never had a religion I then ask what about the Torah?
Jesus Quoted from the Torah/word, and as Paul goes wasnt he a Pharisee?
I think, but don't nail me to a cross, that they knew of (believed in) many gods, but that it wasn't as formalised and organised as "religions" are now.
Paul call him the khristos, he wrote in Greek and or Latin, he was a Roman citizen. Khristos in English is Christ. So people start using the English word Christ for another 1,000+ years, English isn't that d of a language.
The Apostles who walked with him called him the Moshiach, in English it's Messiah
And Jesus was a pseudonym. His real name was Emmanuel Ben Joseph.
Okay!
The Roman Jewish historian is contested because of his works and Nazareth was not founded until in the 100ace.
Josephus’ references to Jesus as “called Christ” are not contested, and Nazareth was absolutely occupied prior to the first century CE.
@@maklelan could only find references of Messiah not Christ could have used Christ because it's derived from Greek meaning anointed. The city of Nazareth was not founded until the ace.
Sit out a couple of plays. Lol
Apocalyptic explanation, maybe. Yet could Yeshua even write? Moreover, was he literate? Did he know any Greek?
No one truly knows who authored each gospel and when (even in which order despite prevailing scholarly theories). Saying "This is accurate." might be better stated "This is majority opinion."
I had the same exact thought. Dan sounded so definitive, but can't we only say that the data doesn't support the conclusion? How can such an assertion be made? There can be no possible way to prove such a claim.
If the text has information that could only be obtained post the deaths of the proposed traditional "authors" then that can only prove that there were additional authors and not that they weren't also authors.
@@dinocollins720 Oh in this life all sorts of assertions can be made! 😆
On balance I would say this guy is pretty close to being accurate despite not knowing his apostles. He should listen to Dan and correct himself.
This is enlightening stuff.
Jajaja, Nerones was a claudian
Where do I get you book? Amazon Canada wants 75.00
I assume you mean Dan’s book. You can download a pdf of the book for free from his personal website. He has a link in his about page here on RUclips.
@Aldrnari956 yes his book that he showed on the vid
Ugh. I wanted to give someone a copy as a gift, but that price tag stings. I'm guessing because it's being used as a college textbook. Publishers will quintuple a reasonable price for a book if they know it's being used as a college textbook (Gardner's Art Through the Ages, for example)
@@TestUser-cf4wj Give the link as a gift. There is a reason that Dan has kept the book open-source so far. It is really a substantial and interesting book but not an easy read. I've been working through it for more than a week so far and I have learned a bunch. If I ever get to meet Dan, i plan to give him the Amazon price, at least.
was jesus not a fan of judaism/the old testament?
🥤 😃 time.
How do I believe either one of you? How do I believe the religious educators who educated you?
Hellboy shirt? Really.
Omg..... so funny
Lmfao ❤
The guy was mostly accurate, it seems.
The letter J was invented in 1528. The word Christ was invented in the 11th century. SO, that means his name was not Jesus, and he was not called The Christ until AFTER those elements were invented, CHECK HISTORY people it always shows the lies of the religions.