Dr. Mclellan, I am a Lutheran pastor and I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to debunk nonsense like this. It is so important and while I am passionate about accurate history but as a pastor in a parish I do not have the time to dedicate to this stuff (not to mention I do not have incredible amount of knowledge that you have). I am so thankful for your channel and for your work! It has become an excellent resource for me to point people to who ask these questions.
I feel for you. Americans know one thing to be true. TV. Since the Christianity they see on TV is Fundamentalism, that’s obviously what the Catholics and ELCA and Episcopalians teach. So liturgical churches and churches more willing to listen to modern scholars can’t possibly exist as they are not in on TV. Keep trying.
@@koppite9600 YHWH in action. Let's cause chaos and hatred. I am a wannabe god who is intensely pissed off because I am defeated everywhere, even when I create evil (aka Satan. I just can't win, but fortunately my followers want to escape their lives into a fake reality called heaven), because we are the only ones who escape and will never have to deal with reality at all. Please note we are already practising
Am not a baptized Lutheran. BUT. Whenever I Iisten to Bach. Or Pachelbel. Or Hugo Distler (!). ,.et al./... And especially when I play them on the organ, I become a cross between Dr. Albert Schweitzer and JFK. And I exclaim, to myself of course but now to you, bon Pasteur: "Today, I am a IK BIN EIN Confessor of Augsburg. I have had many exchanges "on life's way" (Kierkegaard) with Evangelical🎉/evangelische also Missouri Synod Lutheran pastors and lay members. These exchanges were without exception informative and brotherly, sometimes provocative as in thought-provoking, never condescending, always generous. I am referring to both professional and intimately social meetings/meetups. You don't need to apologize for sacrificing systematic theology in favor of pastoral care. I say that you are in Good Company. I mean The Man who said this: "Ye search the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life; but it is these that testify of me." One of the few passes in The Bible I don't have to paraphrase, and maybe get a little wrong! A good one, eh? === BUT I once read a kind of taboo book here in the U.S. T'was bc my thesis director (in England) assigned it for discussion during the following week's 2-hour, viva tutorial which tutorials led to the degree of M. Phil *Diary of a Country Priest* by one of the writers of the "French Catholic" school. After recovering my composure reading the last page, the thought came to me "but who does pastoral care for the pastors?" Nobody in this work of "fiction." The parishioners (or students, or fathers, or??) demand much but give little in return. And so I refer you to 2 settings of the Advent chorale "Es ist ein Ros entsprungen by two of those breathtakingly universal, Lutheran composers. With Michael Praetorius it comes down to the unconventional use of one very common chord
"No that's not true". "No that's not accurate". "That's outdated information". "That's wildly inaccurate." "You can check out this source..." This video clearly shows the difference between sounding like you know what you're talking about, and ACTUALLY knowing what you are talking about.
I hope it gives you some comfort that when us Catholics teach the Hebrew Scriptures to 12 year olds in Sunday school, we teach them about sources and oral tradition and try to discourage a fundamentalist approach. Also I see some comments about the Catholic Church being the “oldest church.” The Catholic and Orthodox churches descend from the strain of ancient Christianity that won the most adherents. You can’t draw a line and say, the Catholic Church started here. But it’s also not historically accurate to point to a bishop of Rome in 190 and say, “he knew he was the Pope in the modern sense.”
Roman Catholicism is a false religion and it’s not found by Jesus it’s found by Satan himself. Roman Catholicism is a mixture of Paganism and Christianity and Roman Emperor Constantine had merged Christianity and Paganism together to unite with The Roman Empire. Roman Catholicism came around 300ad and many Pagans was worshiping their Pagan Mother Goddess and throughout that time many Pagans had converted into becoming Roman Catholics and they worship Mary throughout that time.
I agree your faith does not have pagan roots, but it's a faith of genocide, and all of its success comes from your willingness to commit violence. I was chemically balded at Billings West High School by 4 catholic boys who were the private thugs of the principal, Dave Irion (another Catholic). This attack was covered up by then School Resource Officer and current Chief of Police for the Billings Police (and Catholic) Rich St John. Your faith wounded me for life, and you have not sought to make peace with me. God curse you all.
As ex-Christian convert from Southern Baptist faith to Catholicism, I still get irritated by fundamentalist anti-Catholic talking points. They're lazy, untrue (generally), and uncharitable. "Catholics worship Mary." Only in the linguistic sense of "ascribe worth to," just as many people "worship" their parent or spouses; that's veneration or honor, not infinite adoration. "Catholics don't read the Bible." They both listen to and read it, though mileage may vary. "Catholics think you can earn your way to heaven." No, that was and is condemned as heresy. "Catholics pray to saints, not Jesus." Catholics pray directly to God as well as ask for prayers from angels and saints, just as you ask for prayers from those around you too. "Catholic clergy abuse kids." Yes, and it's tragic, but so is what happened in Souther Baptist churches, LDS temples, etc. And on and on it goes.
“As a ex-Christian convert to Catholicism” 😂😂😂 I couldn’t imagine saying something so stupid. Let me guess, you converted for because of a woman? It certainly wasn’t due to critical thinking
I didn't realise there was so much animosity towards Catholicism from some sectors of evangelical Christians. (I guess it's like how some extremists amongst Sunni and Shia hate each other to the extent that they contrive all sorts of conspiracy theories about the other.)
I've read that the star and crescent symbol actually wasn't originally seen as an Islamic symbol at all and started out as simply a Turkic symbol used as a finial on their battle standards. It became associated with Islam in the West because it was on the flag of the Ottoman Empire, the largest and most powerful Islamic state, but Muslims have never regarded it as a sacred symbol, which is why it's still found on the flag of the secular Republic of Turkey. Obviously it has zero connection with Ancient Middle Eastern paganism.
The imperial symbol of Eurasian steppe khaganates was called a Tugh. It is a black or white "banner" (following the split of the ancient Hunnic empire to black and white factions), made of a circular array of tassels made of yak's tails, which has at its top a trident. The imperial trident has the center point shaped as either a flame, or a disk radiating flames, while the other two points are conjoined at the bottom in a crescent shape. The Seljuk imperial Tugh had a flame disk on it with three flame tongues coming out. Since the Ottomans claimed that Osman was given the paraphernalia of Seljuk imperial rule, they adopted originally a similar Tugh that over the years had its flaming disk simplified into a star. Then someone apparently decided to turn the trident around 90 degrees and ended up with the crescent moon symbol. You can still see it in Tugh form in the Ankara museum. So yes, this symbol had nothing to do whatsoever with Islam and may have originally symbolized the pan-Eurasian sky god Tengri. With that said, the Ottomans weren't the first to come up with this idea. Other Turkic splinters of the Seljuk Empire also came up with similar designs really quickly. Of note, the Mamluks had a version where the moon wasn't rotated and another where the moon was rotated only about 60 degrees. Basically, the moon (originally meant to symbolize horns) was already there, and as Muslims didn't like the flame symbol (which they associated with Zoroastrianism), they always converted it into a star.
The 8 pointed star and crescent moon were definitely symbols of Hekate. Who was also called Queen of Heaven and had snakes at her feet ...so...there's that
Could you cover the orgin of Christianity and how the Catholic Church was the first formal (organized) rendition of Christianity? I grew up Catholic in the South and was always told I wasn’t a Christian or I worshiped false idols. I no longer practice today but still enjoy researching these topics!
Dan can answer this well, but I do have a concentration in Church history and it’s not accurate to say the Roman Catholic Church is the oldest or original rendition. Roman Catholics and Orthodox have a common ancestor they both trace their lineage to. But the development of East and West was gradual as was the split.
there is no one "first" formal tradition of christianity. the church that the catholics and orthodox splintered into was already split pretty much from the start (451 ad coptic christians split for example)
If you haven't reviewed any of Jordan Petersons lectures on the Bible (or more properly Biblical symbols and archetypes from a Jungian perspective) or his commentary on one of his appearances on JRE where he claimed the Bible was the first book and no one knows where it came from, I think you'll find a regular gold mine for new content.
You misunderstand his meaning by 1st book. He's referring to the origin of the symbolic structure of the stories. That these stories are as old as time itself and even older than when they were written down. Their deeply interwoven into the fabric of our being and that humans have been living within these stories and continue to as well. He is using 1st in the sense of it being what sits at the ground of Western conception. He proposes it a metatruth that makes truth possible. (aka Aletheia) You can't come at Jordan Peterson with a genuine attempt to understand him if you take his words from the Modern rationalist materialist perspective which hold a hyper focus on historicity historical representational correctness.
@@820monster wow, a jp sycophant that can't help themselves but overreact to the slightest perceived critique with a word salad of pure nonsense nearly worthy of dear leader. Typical? Yes. Sad? Definitely. Will they ever deprogram? I doubt it; little lost boys will always need a leader or guru of one kind or another. Best I suppose we can hope for is they move on to someone slightly more honest (or at least with content that is based in data instead of neo-Jungian mumbojumbo) than jp once the benzos and/or meat diet finally do him in for good.
It's also worth noting that it is extremely rare for a host used in the Eucharist to have the monogram IHS on it. Most hosts have a cross on them, if anything.
@@andrewsuryali8540 Doesn't this depend on the supplier, your taste and possibly your budget? I seem to recall that we ordered both flat and embossed ones from Charles Farris. Maybe that's just CofE, or maybe I misremember. There seem to be a lot of designs out there nowadays.
@@stephenspackman5573 Most Catholics today live in countries where such businesses don't exist, so parishes often make their own hosts and these end up unadorned.
@@andrewsuryali8540 That makes sense, but I don't think it can be used to make a (crypto-?)doctrinal point (if there was ever one to be made). It would still “work” if you used bread from the supermarket, but that wouldn't address the question of preferred symbolism.
@@stephenspackman5573 Er, yeah. I'm not sure what doctrine has to do with it. I'm just pointing out the current situation. In my childhood hosts were stamped with some form of design, but nowadays I only see those in monasteries. The regular parishes use unadorned hosts.
There are still numerous elements of Pagan ritual in Catholic mass. The incense, the hymns the use and styles of vestments etc are all lifted from pre existing Roman pagan traditions. This was in large part because those thinsg were part of"how a ritual worked" via the cultural structures which the Pagan state apparatus of the Late Empire . On top of this, you have the explicit pagan holdovers in things like the cult of the saints, and how they were supplicated as well. Though the popularity of these sort of folk rites may have more to do with the reluctance and or lack of education involved with how the common people practiced Christianity vs explicit formal doctrine.
Exactly. Rome desired to bring the pagans into the church, so they simply changed the names of some of the rituals. The ancient pagan idols of Tamuz were simply renamed as Mary and Jesus. Do some research on ancient pagan rituals and it will become quite apparent.
Veith had a stuffed black cat that somehow escaped from a securely tightly taped up packing box and wound up under the blanket on his bed. He had a nervous breakdown. Veith is a warrior.
One of the biggest reasons I left Christianity are these kind of p*ssing contests over who represents real Christianity. On top of that we have three religions that trace a common ancestry and a common God and have come away with vastly different ideas on the nature of said God. Religions don't need atheists like me to tear them down. They do it to themselves.
I have always considered the circle to be a symbol of roundness, broadly, or equidistance form a point more specifically. A circle with a picture in it, however, generally represents an image of some kind, one that lacks corners.
The bread of the eucharist could be argued to be an extension of the Egyptian god Osiris who was a God over agriculture and grain. His son Horus became the heir to the throne as a Sun God bringing the light unto the people, while his father resided in the "underworld" as an example of an agricultural phenomenon of growth, harvest, death, and rebirth.
@Dan I love your videos. You do lots of videos defending attacks that say certain Christian rituals, practices, and symbols were not originally pagan. However, I'm certain you've come across some traditional Christian things that DO appear to come from a pagan past. I would love to see your short take on anything you suspect originally WAS pagan.
Christianity adopoted their imagery from the prevailing greco-roman way of depicting gods and various supernatural beings. So Jesus and/or especially God the father later got the looks of Zeus or Jupiter. The earlier way of indicating a divine being, namely tiny horns, got used to depict satanic beings instead. The devil aquired alot of his looks from the god Pan. Holy people got depicted with halo's just as earlier. And on and on the list goes. The visual imagery of later religious art in the catholic for sure incorporated the classical worlds depictions of gods and other divine beings. But it's not exactly part of doctrine that angels are depicted as another kind of supernatural creature already in the roman tradition or that devils have horns and so on e.t.c.
I'm a former 32nd AASR Mason and we have no official teaching on the nativity stuff let alone the magi. We DO have teachings on Solomon and the legends surrounding him but nothing in the way of Jesus. Update: I take that back, O.E.S. does have some stuff about the Star of Bethlehem but 90% of OES is women so doesn't represent Blue Lodge or Scottish Rite Masonry.
The guy in the original video has an absolutely hilarious lecture on Mormonism, for anyone familiar with the faith (believer or not) I highly recommend it for a laugh. He tries to prove that Mormons are Satan worshippers because Brigham Young met a Jesuit Priest en route to Salt Lake (no record of this meeting exists, they just both happened to be in the western US at the same time), and that priest would have introduced him to Satan worship (because Catholics are satanists?) We can verify this because Mormon churches never have windows. (While simultaneously showing pictures of Mormon churches that have windows) And if you ask a Mormon about this and they deny it its because they dont know that they're actually worshipping Satan (huh?). For all of the legitimately questionable stuff in Mormon history, he chooses to ignore all of it and instead make up a story that has zero logic or fact in it at all.
I am wondering, do you think he was knowingly lying about everything? Maybe there are just a bunch of lying or wrong books that he read because the titles attracted him, because the titles went along with his biases. Many xtian pastors and apologists seem to have had no education in the ancient culture of the Hebrews or of the peoples surrounding the Hebrews in ancient times or of the Hebrews in the times of Jesus. I am leaning into thinking he chose books to confirm his biases that he learned young from people with zero actual, historical knowledge.
It is incredibly obvious that Dan researches all of his contents with scholarly intentions. I would not want to be the victim of a Dan McClellan SmackDown.
Okay but Dan, the man has a vaguely British accent. So as an American I must acknowledge him as an academic. Sorry rules are rules and we live in a society!
A person is doesnt matter how or what its how you feel and listen in part of view that you hear and listen and how you unserstand a ancient ways they understand you . Not many ever to astroprojection to temple's or hunters moon ,.. its your own path to choose from is the oldest way has long they understand you . Even the oldest ways of pagas or paganism depends how well you take the light that light takes you or enlightenment part. And sometimes others test our skills are much differance then others compareing college or none college that dont go to college but just temple enlightment.
@Dan Bud I have asked you a few times about your faith because Its a challenge I face. How do you rationalize all the Biblical knowledge you have with your faith? Doesnt one eat away at the other especially since 1 is ground in facts and the other is ground in Hope ?
I don't know how Dan would answer, but I think the only way to not lose faith is through consistent experiences with the divine. It's easy to point out inconsistencies in the Bible and not be shaken when you know personally the God who inspired people who fumbled around with the 'words' of Deity.
As a Lutheran pastor who learned much of what Dan talks about (and as a concentration in church history) my answer is that I do not worship the Bible or have faith in the Bible. I have faith in God in Christ Jesus. If there were no bible but the story of Christ still existed I would be compelled by that story without written texts. Fundamentalists and biblical literalist have a much harder time with your question which is why so many just outright deny actual history.
@@chuckshingledecker2216 thanks, that is really deep and I feel like I can barely intellectually grasp that but I think i get the jist. man I never heard it like that tho. So do you read the bible still? How do you position it ? Sorry if I am riddling you with this but I find as I am now midlife my synicism has grown to the point that I am struggling with Faith tbh
I understand your situation. I was raised conservative fundamentalist and have spent the last two years deconstructing. I've really struggled to keep my faith when all I can see in the church is hate, selfishness and a denial of reality. It's hard to believe in a good God when all his followers seem to be awful people. The best thing for me was figuring what I know to be true, which for me is that a personal relationship with God is worthwhile and beneficial. Everything else, church, bible, theology etc. is negotiable. I can't ever know the correct theology so I've stopped trying. I'm content(ish) with having more questions than answers. The other beneficial and practical thing has been connecting with believers who understand and don't care about dogma. Good people who walk the walk but aren't concerned with the talk. I can't engage with a church that hates everyone different, but I can find community with a church that priorities loving people over sermons and doctrine. As for the bible, I've stopped caring about what it says. If God wants to use it to speak to me, I'll listen. If a pastor wants to use it to demonise the different, I won't. As Dan McClellan says, the bible is negotiable. It will say what you want it to say. I'm not perfect so my interpretation of the bible isn't either. I'm done pretending I have the correct interpretation because I know I never will.
@@AndrewReesonLeather sheesh don't listen to what this fraud channel is teaching that what is written in the Bible is negotiable. Maybe in the sense that as a person you have your own free will to either obey or disobey what is commanded in the Bible. Ignorance of the law does not exempt one's person to not receive punishment for its crimes. Will you be able to say to a judge if you commit a crime "Ohh can you exempt me because I don't know the law"? Of course not!. The Law is there for you to know and the Bible has the laws of God. You must read it. Humble yourself before God and ask his guidance to lead you in the truth. Don't look up to people but rather you look up to who Jesus is. For He says" I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through me".
All Christianity comes from Catholicism; therefore any sins of the Catholic church falls on every single Christian irregardless of what they want to call their section of the religion.
@@brittianyclements1821 Catholicism claims "we were at the foot of the cross 🙄" I'm not sure how they exactly unified as the "first" Christians; perhaps when Christian became the Rome State religion, The Roman Catholic Church 🤷🏼 Jesus wasn't a Christian either😆 he was an Orthodox Jew, and was attempting to lead all back to Father who is a Jewish god amongst many gods... so there's that 😊
By my reckoning, more than half of pipe smokers in America must be “pastors”; but of course, there are assuredly many more “pastors” than pipe smokers. I wish it were the other way around.
The Roman Catholic Church is a mixture of pagan traditions and rituals, mixed with Christianity! All it takes is an HONEST study of history and prophecy, and it can't be denied!
My history shows different story- History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did? There is also the historical events of the 3 councils of Hippo, Rome, and Carthage that will have to be reckoned with…
You're implying "Christianity" as a whole isn't a mixture of Jewish and pagan ritual and thought, but it always was and still is. (For the record, the "Catholic Church" is a term older than "Christianity," used by early Christian leaders and laity to denote the whole or universal assembly of Christ.) The language of the Trinity has its origins in Hellenistic philosophy, Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic thinker, and many of the rites and spaces associated with Christianity attest to both Jewish and pagan culture. Hell, Paul was Hellenized Jew who quotes both Greek philosophy and Jewish scripture depending on his audience. There is no "pure" Christianity or Judaism. Many ideas in both (like, say, Satan as an enemy of the divine) have roots in encounters with pagan cultures and religions (in that case, probably Babylonian Zoroastrianism).
Much of it does, yes......The Trinity, Hell being a literal place and of course the CROSS: The instrument that Jesus died on was just that, a torture instrument, and all the evidence points to the fact that Jesus did not doe on a cross but rather a "upright pole of stake" ! An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated “cross” is stau·ros′. It basically means “an upright pale or stake.” The Companion Bible points out: “[Stau·ros′] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle . . . There is nothing in the Greek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber.” In several texts, Bible writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus’ death. It is the Greek word xy′lon. (Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) This word simply means “timber” or “a stick, club, or tree.” The most convincing proof of all, however, comes from God’s Word. The apostle Paul says: “Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: ‘Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake [“a tree,” King James Version].’” (Galatians 3:13) Here Paul quotes Deuteronomy 21:22, 23, which clearly refers to a stake, not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person “a curse,” it would not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled. So if there was a chance that this is true it means that people are putting Jesus onto a pagan symbol! This might be a good subject for your next question.
Before there was a Bible as you know it there was the Trinity doctrine developing in the church beginning at Nicaea 325 THEN came the Christian Bible some 70 years later you quote from. Soooooo- History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did?
@@srich7503The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits that “the doctrine of the holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.” It also admits that the doctrine must be dated as from about three hundred and fifty years after the death of Jesus Christ! So the early Christians who were taught directly from Jesus Christ did not believe that God is a Trinity!! The New Catholic Encyclopedia says of the Trinity: “It is not, as already seen, directly and immediately the word of God.”
@@sunnyjohnson992 maybe not the written word of GOD that i agree with, which is why i posted what i posted above in question format. 👍🏻 edit… actually this is the question version with including the Trinity… History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century, just 75 years AFTER the council of Nicaea which began the Trinitarian docrtine, and then with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved these scriptures by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?
One Roman writer said Christianity was not a new religion. It predates Jesus by some time, so by definition it's rooted in paganism if paganism means anything non Christian.
Evangelicals tuning in to hear a Mormon attempting to debunk a Seventh-Day Adventist? When push comes to shove, I'll go with SDA Walter Veith over LDS McClellan, if for no other reason that at least Veith believes in his religion.
Please stop trying g to sugar coat all that idolatry. I was born in Poland (all Catholics) and people have statues of Mary in front of their homes and pray to her. Jesus said I am the way. He the only mediator. Mary needed savior herself. Guys don’t fall for this !!!! Pope says he is holy father oh man if that’s not blasphemy I don’t know what is. Open your eyes !! Read bi me for yourself and don’t trust what some priest tells you.
This presentation has nothing to do with the spirit or obj truth. The Spirit has been given authority over scripture in the new testament. The law is in direct opposition to the Spirit. People always asking for permission. How about they've got no right to ask God for anything? The law will never reveal spirit or obj truth. Law is a downward spiral of chaos. Spirit reveals the truth of our mirror.
In fact if you read the Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine and compare it with Scripture it clearly shows that Catholic Doctrine does not follow the Holy Scriptures of the Bible. This is very interesting. I want to present something I recently came across. If you read the converts catechism of Catholic Doctrine and go to part II, Section II, Chapter 5, number 3(the third commandment). Q. What is the third commandment? A. The third commandment is remember the Sabbath that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. Q. Which is the Sabbath day? A. Saturday is the Sabbath day. Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for saturday? A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the apostles on a Sunday. Q. By what authority did the church substitute Sunday for saturday? A. The church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plentitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her. Q. What does the third commandment? A. The third commandment commands us to sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day. According to their(Catholic Church) doctrine The 2nd commandment in the Bible is not observed, the Sabbath was replaced by Sunday and the 10th commandment was broken into two parts thus fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel 7:25 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. The only commandment related to time is the 4th commandment. God did not change the 4th commandment nor does he change. God does not change. He does not break his covenant. The 10 commandments of God are a reflection of his character. Jesus is truth. John 14:6 God's word is truth. John 17:17 Psalm 119:142,151 God's law is truth. John 4:24 God's people worship him in spirit and in truth. Malachi 3:6 - God never changes Psalm 111:7,8 God's commandments stand fast for ever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness. Psalm 89:34 God does not break his covenant. The new covenant is not about the doing away with God's law, it's about where he puts it(in your heart; Hebrews 8:10). God's saints, remnant keep his law: Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14 I pray you study this out and seek what the word of the Lord teaches. After all the warning in Revelation 14 is about worship of the true God. The Pope is also known as: The Annuario Pontificio, the official directory of the Holy See, describes the office of the pope by the following titles: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church. The Pope is known as the vicar of Christ. The word “vicar” means to be a representative of; the pope is our leader who acts on behalf of Christ. Christ never gave any man on earth his authority which the Catholic Church teaches was given to the Pope. Claiming that is blasphemy.
@@vceptx if you read the bible critically.. if you compare the god of the torah and the god of the book of malachi and the the new testament.. god does change!
Catholicism goes against basically everything that Christianity stands for. First of all they call Mary the mother of God, which she is not. Also they worship Jesus as God (which is why they call Mary the mother of God), which he is obviously not. At least 10 times it’s said he went to talk with God, so he is not God. Another point is to simply look at the third commandment and then walk into a catholic church.. Or consider that Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven is within, while the Catholic church is known for misleading their followers by reading to the people in Latin or that they used to sell indulgences for people to get rid of their sins. They’ve also lately accepted homosexuality, while Jesus himself called homosexuality an abomination. Personally I call the Catholic church the church of the fall. Just like with the fall the order shifted from (hierarchically) being God-Adam-Eve to Satan-Eve-Adam. When Eve listened to Satan instead of to God, Satan became her God. Then she seduced Adam and Eve, thus Satan, became his God. Breaking and reversing God’s order, which is why Jesus had to come to conquer Satan. Jesus is God only in the sense that the crown prince is like the King. Like we say I see your father in you to a young child. Jesus never broke away from God’s order, so Satan literally did not have the right to take him. He was only allowed to take the fallen souls, but Jesus wasn’t a fallen soul so he was the only one who could (had the right to) defeat Satan. Hallelujah, thank you, Jesus. Now we can return to God the father not through deeds (old covenant), which was basically impossible, but by grace. Paid for in blood by our oldest brother, our King to be, Jesus. Sitting at the right hand of God. Take Ocam’s razor, take trinitarian doctrine and what I say here (which in my humble opinion is as much as possible stripped from opinion, because only then will truth be revealed by the teacher within, the Holy Ghost that God sent for us) and it sounds quite logical, if I might say so myself. If Jesus is God, to whom does he pray when he leaves the disciples to go pray somewhere? It just sounds silly and overcomplicated. Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible that the letter kills while the spirit gives life? Mr. Oxford ;) Im not judging by the way. I understand. We’ve all fallen away from God.
History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did?
@@srich7503 Yes, they did. Thus the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees. And Paul writing that the letter kills, while the spirit gives life. The Jewish people were people of the letter. That's why they got Jesus killed and didn't see he was the Messiah. But God can make anything work for good. Even the church of the fall, the Catholic church.
@@platinumbulletsniper so either “Catholicism goes against everything that Christianity stands for” is an erroneous statement or “Yes they did” provide Christianity with its rule of faith, the Bible, is erroneous. One or the other. 🤷🏽♂️
@@srich7503 No, it's not. They did copy the book. But the book said ''the kingdom of God is within'' and ''the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.'' The bible is not the word of God, the bible is the word about God. God's word is written in our hearts. The whole story of the bible is how even God's people turned away from God. God had the promised land, but they were stubborn and had to walk through the desert. Then you have all the prophets who call the people back to God (because again they had turned away from God, towards their intellectual head knowledge). It was God's people, the Jews, specifically the pharisees (the learned people, the people of the book), who killed Jesus. But through all that being turned away from God, He still made a way to bring us Jesus. In the same way the Catholic church might have compiled and translated the bible, but at the same time they are lost in the desert. Mary is not the mother of God. Jesus was not God. Praying to Mary is basically the same as Eve listening to the snake. Jesus came and conquered. . We are free. We can return to God and pray through the Holy Spirit. It's not wrong to read the bible, but the bible is just a book ABOUT God and God's people. The word OF God is written in our hearts. Which we can return to only because of our crown prince and loving oldest brother Jesus Christ, sitting at the right hand of God the Father. I mean no harm. Greetings and be well (:
@@platinumbulletsniper ummmm no you said yes to the above. That is the Catholic/Orthodox church, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, chose the books of the Bible in the 5th century when the church was not in agreement of those books. So if you do not trust the same church to interpret the same scriptures today that chose those scriptures to begin with it’s ludicrous. Either you dont trust her to interpret the scriptures today and therefore could not have chose the correct books to begin with or if you trust her to have choose the correct books to begin with it only makes sense to trust her to interpret those same books today. You cannot,logically, have it both ways.
Dr. Mclellan, I am a Lutheran pastor and I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to debunk nonsense like this. It is so important and while I am passionate about accurate history but as a pastor in a parish I do not have the time to dedicate to this stuff (not to mention I do not have incredible amount of knowledge that you have). I am so thankful for your channel and for your work! It has become an excellent resource for me to point people to who ask these questions.
Isn't lutheranism nonsense too? Catholic asking.
I feel for you. Americans know one thing to be true. TV. Since the Christianity they see on TV is Fundamentalism, that’s obviously what the Catholics and ELCA and Episcopalians teach. So liturgical churches and churches more willing to listen to modern scholars can’t possibly exist as they are not in on TV.
Keep trying.
@@koppite9600 knock it off
@@koppite9600 YHWH in action. Let's cause chaos and hatred. I am a wannabe god who is intensely pissed off because I am defeated everywhere, even when I create evil (aka Satan. I just can't win, but fortunately my followers want to escape their lives into a fake reality called heaven), because we are the only ones who escape and will never have to deal with reality at all. Please note we are already practising
Am not a baptized Lutheran. BUT. Whenever I Iisten to Bach. Or Pachelbel. Or Hugo Distler (!).
,.et al./... And especially when I play them on the organ, I become a cross between Dr. Albert Schweitzer and JFK. And I exclaim, to myself of course but now to you, bon Pasteur: "Today, I am a
IK BIN EIN Confessor of Augsburg.
I have had many exchanges "on life's way" (Kierkegaard) with Evangelical🎉/evangelische also Missouri Synod Lutheran pastors and lay members. These exchanges were without exception informative and brotherly, sometimes provocative as in thought-provoking, never condescending, always generous. I am referring to both professional and intimately social meetings/meetups.
You don't need to apologize for sacrificing systematic theology in favor of pastoral care. I say that you are in Good Company. I mean The Man who said this:
"Ye search the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life; but it is these that testify of me."
One of the few passes in The Bible I don't have to paraphrase, and maybe get a little wrong! A good one, eh?
===
BUT I once read a kind of taboo book here in the U.S. T'was bc my thesis director (in England) assigned it for discussion during the following week's 2-hour, viva tutorial which tutorials led to the degree of M. Phil
*Diary of a Country Priest* by one of the writers of the "French Catholic" school.
After recovering my composure reading the last page, the thought came to me "but who does pastoral care for the pastors?" Nobody in this work of "fiction." The parishioners (or students, or fathers, or??) demand much but give little in return.
And so I refer you to 2 settings of the Advent chorale "Es ist ein Ros entsprungen by two of those breathtakingly universal, Lutheran composers. With Michael Praetorius it comes down to the unconventional use of one very common chord
"No that's not true". "No that's not accurate". "That's outdated information". "That's wildly inaccurate." "You can check out this source..."
This video clearly shows the difference between sounding like you know what you're talking about, and ACTUALLY knowing what you are talking about.
All he's doing is showing historical facts and interpreting them. This entire video is a "yes but ummm" response.
I hope it gives you some comfort that when us Catholics teach the Hebrew Scriptures to 12 year olds in Sunday school, we teach them about sources and oral tradition and try to discourage a fundamentalist approach.
Also I see some comments about the Catholic Church being the “oldest church.” The Catholic and Orthodox churches descend from the strain of ancient Christianity that won the most adherents. You can’t draw a line and say, the Catholic Church started here. But it’s also not historically accurate to point to a bishop of Rome in 190 and say, “he knew he was the Pope in the modern sense.”
Roman Catholicism is a false religion and it’s not found by Jesus it’s found by Satan himself. Roman Catholicism is a mixture of Paganism and Christianity and Roman Emperor Constantine had merged Christianity and Paganism together to unite with The Roman Empire. Roman Catholicism came around 300ad and many Pagans was worshiping their Pagan Mother Goddess and throughout that time many Pagans had converted into becoming Roman Catholics and they worship Mary throughout that time.
BOOM! Spot on. Thank you.
@@henkaistudio Account for the devotion to Mary in the Orthodox Church and the devotion to Mary before Constantine.
I agree your faith does not have pagan roots, but it's a faith of genocide, and all of its success comes from your willingness to commit violence. I was chemically balded at Billings West High School by 4 catholic boys who were the private thugs of the principal, Dave Irion (another Catholic). This attack was covered up by then School Resource Officer and current Chief of Police for the Billings Police (and Catholic) Rich St John. Your faith wounded me for life, and you have not sought to make peace with me. God curse you all.
@@philsphan4414 yeah exactly even the Orthodoxy be preaching a false gospel too.
As ex-Christian convert from Southern Baptist faith to Catholicism, I still get irritated by fundamentalist anti-Catholic talking points. They're lazy, untrue (generally), and uncharitable.
"Catholics worship Mary." Only in the linguistic sense of "ascribe worth to," just as many people "worship" their parent or spouses; that's veneration or honor, not infinite adoration. "Catholics don't read the Bible." They both listen to and read it, though mileage may vary. "Catholics think you can earn your way to heaven." No, that was and is condemned as heresy. "Catholics pray to saints, not Jesus." Catholics pray directly to God as well as ask for prayers from angels and saints, just as you ask for prayers from those around you too. "Catholic clergy abuse kids." Yes, and it's tragic, but so is what happened in Souther Baptist churches, LDS temples, etc.
And on and on it goes.
Well, actually it helps praying to saint Antony of Padua when you lost something. I also do it now, and I’m not a Catholic. 😃
“As a ex-Christian convert to Catholicism” 😂😂😂 I couldn’t imagine saying something so stupid. Let me guess, you converted for because of a woman? It certainly wasn’t due to critical thinking
@@jannetteberends8730good grief
You're not an "ex-Christian" you can't be more Christian than being Catholic.
I didn't realise there was so much animosity towards Catholicism from some sectors of evangelical Christians. (I guess it's like how some extremists amongst Sunni and Shia hate each other to the extent that they contrive all sorts of conspiracy theories about the other.)
Charlatans often hate that which is genuine.
Some Christians are still living in the Reformation.
I've read that the star and crescent symbol actually wasn't originally seen as an Islamic symbol at all and started out as simply a Turkic symbol used as a finial on their battle standards. It became associated with Islam in the West because it was on the flag of the Ottoman Empire, the largest and most powerful Islamic state, but Muslims have never regarded it as a sacred symbol, which is why it's still found on the flag of the secular Republic of Turkey. Obviously it has zero connection with Ancient Middle Eastern paganism.
The imperial symbol of Eurasian steppe khaganates was called a Tugh. It is a black or white "banner" (following the split of the ancient Hunnic empire to black and white factions), made of a circular array of tassels made of yak's tails, which has at its top a trident. The imperial trident has the center point shaped as either a flame, or a disk radiating flames, while the other two points are conjoined at the bottom in a crescent shape. The Seljuk imperial Tugh had a flame disk on it with three flame tongues coming out. Since the Ottomans claimed that Osman was given the paraphernalia of Seljuk imperial rule, they adopted originally a similar Tugh that over the years had its flaming disk simplified into a star. Then someone apparently decided to turn the trident around 90 degrees and ended up with the crescent moon symbol. You can still see it in Tugh form in the Ankara museum. So yes, this symbol had nothing to do whatsoever with Islam and may have originally symbolized the pan-Eurasian sky god Tengri.
With that said, the Ottomans weren't the first to come up with this idea. Other Turkic splinters of the Seljuk Empire also came up with similar designs really quickly. Of note, the Mamluks had a version where the moon wasn't rotated and another where the moon was rotated only about 60 degrees. Basically, the moon (originally meant to symbolize horns) was already there, and as Muslims didn't like the flame symbol (which they associated with Zoroastrianism), they always converted it into a star.
The 8 pointed star and crescent moon were definitely symbols of Hekate. Who was also called Queen of Heaven and had snakes at her feet ...so...there's that
You tell en bro 🙏🏻🙏🏾🙏🏽 Pray the Holy Rosary daily and obtain that peace that defies understanding
Could you cover the orgin of Christianity and how the Catholic Church was the first formal (organized) rendition of Christianity? I grew up Catholic in the South and was always told I wasn’t a Christian or I worshiped false idols. I no longer practice today but still enjoy researching these topics!
Those who told you that were/are dumber than a box of rocks.
Dan can answer this well, but I do have a concentration in Church history and it’s not accurate to say the Roman Catholic Church is the oldest or original rendition. Roman Catholics and Orthodox have a common ancestor they both trace their lineage to. But the development of East and West was gradual as was the split.
there is no one "first" formal tradition of christianity. the church that the catholics and orthodox splintered into was already split pretty much from the start (451 ad coptic christians split for example)
@@chuckshingledecker2216 from Peter to Francis, Catholic is still that church from the 1st century
@@abaddon2148 be specific in what you mention.
Don’t smear us pagans with that comparison, damn 😂
Roman Catholicism is a mixture of Christianity and Paganism put together and Roman Catholics are Pagans disguised as Christianity just so you know.
@@henkaistudio As I said, don't smear those of us who want nothing to do with that faith.
Blessed be
Pagan is from the Latin Paganus ...meaning rural dweller as opposed to christian a city elite.
Freemason here - he's way out in left field about our symbology as well.
I literally facepalmed when he started talking about stars and geography.
If you haven't reviewed any of Jordan Petersons lectures on the Bible (or more properly Biblical symbols and archetypes from a Jungian perspective) or his commentary on one of his appearances on JRE where he claimed the Bible was the first book and no one knows where it came from, I think you'll find a regular gold mine for new content.
You misunderstand his meaning by 1st book. He's referring to the origin of the symbolic structure of the stories. That these stories are as old as time itself and even older than when they were written down. Their deeply interwoven into the fabric of our being and that humans have been living within these stories and continue to as well. He is using 1st in the sense of it being what sits at the ground of Western conception. He proposes it a metatruth that makes truth possible. (aka Aletheia)
You can't come at Jordan Peterson with a genuine attempt to understand him if you take his words from the Modern rationalist materialist perspective which hold a hyper focus on historicity historical representational correctness.
@@820monster wow, a jp sycophant that can't help themselves but overreact to the slightest perceived critique with a word salad of pure nonsense nearly worthy of dear leader. Typical? Yes. Sad? Definitely. Will they ever deprogram? I doubt it; little lost boys will always need a leader or guru of one kind or another. Best I suppose we can hope for is they move on to someone slightly more honest (or at least with content that is based in data instead of neo-Jungian mumbojumbo) than jp once the benzos and/or meat diet finally do him in for good.
It's also worth noting that it is extremely rare for a host used in the Eucharist to have the monogram IHS on it. Most hosts have a cross on them, if anything.
Most hosts have no symbol whatsoever.
@@andrewsuryali8540 Doesn't this depend on the supplier, your taste and possibly your budget? I seem to recall that we ordered both flat and embossed ones from Charles Farris. Maybe that's just CofE, or maybe I misremember.
There seem to be a lot of designs out there nowadays.
@@stephenspackman5573 Most Catholics today live in countries where such businesses don't exist, so parishes often make their own hosts and these end up unadorned.
@@andrewsuryali8540 That makes sense, but I don't think it can be used to make a (crypto-?)doctrinal point (if there was ever one to be made). It would still “work” if you used bread from the supermarket, but that wouldn't address the question of preferred symbolism.
@@stephenspackman5573 Er, yeah. I'm not sure what doctrine has to do with it. I'm just pointing out the current situation. In my childhood hosts were stamped with some form of design, but nowadays I only see those in monasteries. The regular parishes use unadorned hosts.
There are still numerous elements of Pagan ritual in Catholic mass. The incense, the hymns the use and styles of vestments etc are all lifted from pre existing Roman pagan traditions. This was in large part because those thinsg were part of"how a ritual worked" via the cultural structures which the Pagan state apparatus of the Late Empire .
On top of this, you have the explicit pagan holdovers in things like the cult of the saints, and how they were supplicated as well. Though the popularity of these sort of folk rites may have more to do with the reluctance and or lack of education involved with how the common people practiced Christianity vs explicit formal doctrine.
Exactly. Rome desired to bring the pagans into the church, so they simply changed the names of some of the rituals. The ancient pagan idols of Tamuz were simply renamed as Mary and Jesus. Do some research on ancient pagan rituals and it will become quite apparent.
It almost seems like the old English fellow might have an axe to grind with Catholicism and Islam in particular.
Judaism and Catholicism and Islam do all have some connection with each other just so you know.
he's South African.
@@bengreen171that explains a lot tbh
@@sanguillotine
yep.
Veith had a stuffed black cat that somehow escaped from a securely tightly taped up packing box and wound up under the blanket on his bed. He had a nervous breakdown. Veith is a warrior.
One of the biggest reasons I left Christianity are these kind of p*ssing contests over who represents real Christianity.
On top of that we have three religions that trace a common ancestry and a common God and have come away with vastly different ideas on the nature of said God.
Religions don't need atheists like me to tear them down. They do it to themselves.
No one has ever explained how a star can shine on a specific location
Or how it can rise in the east and be followed by people heading west.
I have always considered the circle to be a symbol of roundness, broadly, or equidistance form a point more specifically.
A circle with a picture in it, however, generally represents an image of some kind, one that lacks corners.
Data > Dogma babyyyy
to be fair, what he is responding is absolutely not dogma
Dumb comment from a dumb person
The bread of the eucharist could be argued to be an extension of the Egyptian god Osiris who was a God over agriculture and grain. His son Horus became the heir to the throne as a Sun God bringing the light unto the people, while his father resided in the "underworld" as an example of an agricultural phenomenon of growth, harvest, death, and rebirth.
@Dan I love your videos. You do lots of videos defending attacks that say certain Christian rituals, practices, and symbols were not originally pagan. However, I'm certain you've come across some traditional Christian things that DO appear to come from a pagan past. I would love to see your short take on anything you suspect originally WAS pagan.
Christianity adopoted their imagery from the prevailing greco-roman way of depicting gods and various supernatural beings. So Jesus and/or especially God the father later got the looks of Zeus or Jupiter. The earlier way of indicating a divine being, namely tiny horns, got used to depict satanic beings instead. The devil aquired alot of his looks from the god Pan. Holy people got depicted with halo's just as earlier. And on and on the list goes. The visual imagery of later religious art in the catholic for sure incorporated the classical worlds depictions of gods and other divine beings. But it's not exactly part of doctrine that angels are depicted as another kind of supernatural creature already in the roman tradition or that devils have horns and so on e.t.c.
My cereal bowl represents the Sun.
I'm a former 32nd AASR Mason and we have no official teaching on the nativity stuff let alone the magi. We DO have teachings on Solomon and the legends surrounding him but nothing in the way of Jesus.
Update: I take that back, O.E.S. does have some stuff about the Star of Bethlehem but 90% of OES is women so doesn't represent Blue Lodge or Scottish Rite Masonry.
Shhhh! SECRET society!
@@alanb8884 Society with secrets, not a secret society.
And OES uses that as an allegory for following Jesus. So clearly, Satanism.
Thank you. Most of what you said I learned in CCD classes.
Can you do an in-depth reaction to Peter Joseph's movie Zeitgeist?
I'm a devout Catholic and I embrace our pagan influence.
The guy in the original video has an absolutely hilarious lecture on Mormonism, for anyone familiar with the faith (believer or not) I highly recommend it for a laugh. He tries to prove that Mormons are Satan worshippers because Brigham Young met a Jesuit Priest en route to Salt Lake (no record of this meeting exists, they just both happened to be in the western US at the same time), and that priest would have introduced him to Satan worship (because Catholics are satanists?) We can verify this because Mormon churches never have windows. (While simultaneously showing pictures of Mormon churches that have windows) And if you ask a Mormon about this and they deny it its because they dont know that they're actually worshipping Satan (huh?).
For all of the legitimately questionable stuff in Mormon history, he chooses to ignore all of it and instead make up a story that has zero logic or fact in it at all.
Dude as someone who grew up in the Catholic Church was taught the RCC since 2nd grade. This guy really just Google a bunch conspiracy theory pages.
the Eastern Orthodox host isn't even a circle, it's a square!
I am wondering, do you think he was knowingly lying about everything? Maybe there are just a bunch of lying or wrong books that he read because the titles attracted him, because the titles went along with his biases. Many xtian pastors and apologists seem to have had no education in the ancient culture of the Hebrews or of the peoples surrounding the Hebrews in ancient times or of the Hebrews in the times of Jesus. I am leaning into thinking he chose books to confirm his biases that he learned young from people with zero actual, historical knowledge.
It is incredibly obvious that Dan researches all of his contents with scholarly intentions. I would not want to be the victim of a Dan McClellan SmackDown.
Okay but Dan, the man has a vaguely British accent. So as an American I must acknowledge him as an academic. Sorry rules are rules and we live in a society!
His accent is a bit unusual; but it mostly sounds South African ... definitely not a British accent!
I think he's South African.
Was sex considered the original sin at some time? The snake taught Eve how to seduce Adam, so she was to blame.
A person is doesnt matter how or what its how you feel and listen in part of view that you hear and listen and how you unserstand a ancient ways they understand you . Not many ever to astroprojection to temple's or hunters moon ,.. its your own path to choose from is the oldest way has long they understand you . Even the oldest ways of pagas or paganism depends how well you take the light that light takes you or enlightenment part. And sometimes others test our skills are much differance then others compareing college or none college that dont go to college but just temple enlightment.
Good work Doctor
I mean he said Isis-Horus-Set, right? not Harissip...not saying he's right or anything, but these rabbit holes sure were fun goings back in the day
Yes
@Dan Bud I have asked you a few times about your faith because Its a challenge I face. How do you rationalize all the Biblical knowledge you have with your faith? Doesnt one eat away at the other especially since 1 is ground in facts and the other is ground in Hope ?
I don't know how Dan would answer, but I think the only way to not lose faith is through consistent experiences with the divine. It's easy to point out inconsistencies in the Bible and not be shaken when you know personally the God who inspired people who fumbled around with the 'words' of Deity.
As a Lutheran pastor who learned much of what Dan talks about (and as a concentration in church history) my answer is that I do not worship the Bible or have faith in the Bible. I have faith in God in Christ Jesus. If there were no bible but the story of Christ still existed I would be compelled by that story without written texts.
Fundamentalists and biblical literalist have a much harder time with your question which is why so many just outright deny actual history.
@@chuckshingledecker2216 thanks, that is really deep and I feel like I can barely intellectually grasp that but I think i get the jist. man I never heard it like that tho. So do you read the bible still? How do you position it ? Sorry if I am riddling you with this but I find as I am now midlife my synicism has grown to the point that I am struggling with Faith tbh
I understand your situation. I was raised conservative fundamentalist and have spent the last two years deconstructing. I've really struggled to keep my faith when all I can see in the church is hate, selfishness and a denial of reality. It's hard to believe in a good God when all his followers seem to be awful people.
The best thing for me was figuring what I know to be true, which for me is that a personal relationship with God is worthwhile and beneficial. Everything else, church, bible, theology etc. is negotiable. I can't ever know the correct theology so I've stopped trying. I'm content(ish) with having more questions than answers.
The other beneficial and practical thing has been connecting with believers who understand and don't care about dogma. Good people who walk the walk but aren't concerned with the talk. I can't engage with a church that hates everyone different, but I can find community with a church that priorities loving people over sermons and doctrine.
As for the bible, I've stopped caring about what it says. If God wants to use it to speak to me, I'll listen. If a pastor wants to use it to demonise the different, I won't.
As Dan McClellan says, the bible is negotiable. It will say what you want it to say. I'm not perfect so my interpretation of the bible isn't either. I'm done pretending I have the correct interpretation because I know I never will.
@@AndrewReesonLeather sheesh don't listen to what this fraud channel is teaching that what is written in the Bible is negotiable. Maybe in the sense that as a person you have your own free will to either obey or disobey what is commanded in the Bible.
Ignorance of the law does not exempt one's person to not receive punishment for its crimes. Will you be able to say to a judge if you commit a crime "Ohh can you exempt me because I don't know the law"? Of course not!. The Law is there for you to know and the Bible has the laws of God. You must read it. Humble yourself before God and ask his guidance to lead you in the truth. Don't look up to people but rather you look up to who Jesus is. For He says" I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through me".
Does anyone else watch this for its entertainment value? I find myself laughing out loud at Dan's take-downs...
Maybe I'm weird...
If you are from the East ... you don't have to go to the West. You can go north, south, any direction.
Do more shit on Dr. Veith! I was into him big time and would love to see his throeries deconstructed
I don't know.... i mean the guy is wearing a suit. how can a guy in a suit be wrong? lol. I really enjoy your videos Dan.
Isn't this Veith?
Walter veith is amazing
If it wasn't the dog star, then is the third Harry Potter not true either?
Where does Jesus say burn the heretic alive?
makes you wonder how many people were in that audience hearing so much disinformation
People like them.
Are yust there to revel in Christian bashing.
These people eat this up.
Like a dog from floor.
I can only ascribe this misinformation as “too much reading of Alexander Hislop.”
All Christianity comes from Catholicism; therefore any sins of the Catholic church falls on every single Christian irregardless of what they want to call their section of the religion.
@@brittianyclements1821
Catholicism claims "we were at the foot of the cross 🙄" I'm not sure how they exactly unified as the "first" Christians; perhaps when Christian became the Rome State religion, The Roman Catholic Church 🤷🏼 Jesus wasn't a Christian either😆 he was an Orthodox Jew, and was attempting to lead all back to Father who is a Jewish god amongst many gods... so there's that 😊
If they keep talkin that trash im...suen.
By my reckoning, more than half of pipe smokers in America must be “pastors”; but of course, there are assuredly many more “pastors” than pipe smokers. I wish it were the other way around.
The Roman Catholic Church is a mixture of pagan traditions and rituals, mixed with Christianity! All it takes is an HONEST study of history and prophecy, and it can't be denied!
My history shows different story-
History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did?
There is also the historical events of the 3 councils of Hippo, Rome, and Carthage that will have to be reckoned with…
You're implying "Christianity" as a whole isn't a mixture of Jewish and pagan ritual and thought, but it always was and still is. (For the record, the "Catholic Church" is a term older than "Christianity," used by early Christian leaders and laity to denote the whole or universal assembly of Christ.) The language of the Trinity has its origins in Hellenistic philosophy, Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic thinker, and many of the rites and spaces associated with Christianity attest to both Jewish and pagan culture. Hell, Paul was Hellenized Jew who quotes both Greek philosophy and Jewish scripture depending on his audience.
There is no "pure" Christianity or Judaism. Many ideas in both (like, say, Satan as an enemy of the divine) have roots in encounters with pagan cultures and religions (in that case, probably Babylonian Zoroastrianism).
What is landscape mode?! No one knows. 😂😂😂
Much of it does, yes......The Trinity, Hell being a literal place and of course the CROSS:
The instrument that Jesus died on was just that, a torture instrument, and all the evidence points to the fact that Jesus did not doe on a cross but rather a "upright pole of stake" !
An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated “cross” is stau·ros′. It basically means “an upright pale or stake.” The Companion Bible points out: “[Stau·ros′] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle . . . There is nothing in the Greek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber.”
In several texts, Bible writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus’ death. It is the Greek word xy′lon. (Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) This word simply means “timber” or “a stick, club, or tree.”
The most convincing proof of all, however, comes from God’s Word. The apostle Paul says: “Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: ‘Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake [“a tree,” King James Version].’” (Galatians 3:13) Here Paul quotes Deuteronomy 21:22, 23, which clearly refers to a stake, not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person “a curse,” it would not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled.
So if there was a chance that this is true it means that people are putting Jesus onto a pagan symbol! This might be a good subject for your next question.
Before there was a Bible as you know it there was the Trinity doctrine developing in the church beginning at Nicaea 325 THEN came the Christian Bible some 70 years later you quote from. Soooooo-
History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did?
@@srich7503The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits that “the doctrine of the holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.” It also admits that the doctrine must be dated as from about three hundred and fifty years after the death of Jesus Christ! So the early Christians who were taught directly from Jesus Christ did not believe that God is a Trinity!!
The New Catholic Encyclopedia says of the Trinity: “It is not, as already seen, directly and immediately the word of God.”
@@sunnyjohnson992 maybe not the written word of GOD that i agree with, which is why i posted what i posted above in question format. 👍🏻 edit… actually this is the question version with including the Trinity…
History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century, just 75 years AFTER the council of Nicaea which began the Trinitarian docrtine, and then with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved these scriptures by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?
Let’s see it you just refuted his claims, produce your research? Based on current day catholic dogma something is off from what you’re saying.
One Roman writer said Christianity was not a new religion. It predates Jesus by some time, so by definition it's rooted in paganism if paganism means anything non Christian.
Evangelicals tuning in to hear a Mormon attempting to debunk a Seventh-Day Adventist? When push comes to shove, I'll go with SDA Walter Veith over LDS McClellan, if for no other reason that at least Veith believes in his religion.
Not only does it “originate in pagan worship” it IS pagan worship - that’s one of the reasons I’m so fond of Catholicism.
Well I mean literally all the sacraments have "pagan" origins, soo...Pretty "pagan" to me!
The christian communion is obviously imitating that of the ancient mystery religions of dionysos, Demeter/Persephone, etc
Please stop trying g to sugar coat all that idolatry. I was born in Poland (all Catholics) and people have statues of Mary in front of their homes and pray to her. Jesus said I am the way. He the only mediator. Mary needed savior herself. Guys don’t fall for this !!!! Pope says he is holy father oh man if that’s not blasphemy I don’t know what is. Open your eyes !! Read bi me for yourself and don’t trust what some priest tells you.
This presentation has nothing to do with the spirit or obj truth. The Spirit has been given authority over scripture in the new testament. The law is in direct opposition to the Spirit. People always asking for permission. How about they've got no right to ask God for anything? The law will never reveal spirit or obj truth. Law is a downward spiral of chaos. Spirit reveals the truth of our mirror.
ruclips.net/video/QV5rCP7uiaU/видео.html
christianity owes everything to the holy roman catholic church!
everything!
In my opinion, the mere fact Christianity owns everything to the holy Roman catholic church.... Is the first and foremost reason to RUN!
In fact if you read the Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine and compare it with Scripture it clearly shows that Catholic Doctrine does not follow the Holy Scriptures of the Bible.
This is very interesting. I want to present something I recently came across.
If you read the converts catechism of Catholic Doctrine and go to part II, Section II, Chapter 5, number 3(the third commandment).
Q. What is the third commandment?
A. The third commandment is remember the Sabbath that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the church substitute Sunday for saturday?
A. The church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plentitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.
Q. What does the third commandment?
A. The third commandment commands us to sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day.
According to their(Catholic Church) doctrine
The 2nd commandment in the Bible is not observed, the Sabbath was replaced by Sunday and the 10th commandment was broken into two parts thus fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
The only commandment related to time is the 4th commandment.
God did not change the 4th commandment nor does he change. God does not change. He does not break his covenant.
The 10 commandments of God are a reflection of his character.
Jesus is truth. John 14:6
God's word is truth. John 17:17
Psalm 119:142,151
God's law is truth.
John 4:24
God's people worship him in spirit and in truth.
Malachi 3:6 - God never changes
Psalm 111:7,8
God's commandments stand fast for ever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness.
Psalm 89:34
God does not break his covenant.
The new covenant is not about the doing away with God's law, it's about where he puts it(in your heart; Hebrews 8:10).
God's saints, remnant keep his law: Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14
I pray you study this out and seek what the word of the Lord teaches.
After all the warning in Revelation 14 is about worship of the true God.
The Pope is also known as: The Annuario Pontificio, the official directory of the Holy See, describes the office of the pope by the following titles: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church.
The Pope is known as the vicar of Christ. The word “vicar” means to be a representative of; the pope is our leader who acts on behalf of Christ.
Christ never gave any man on earth his authority which the Catholic Church teaches was given to the Pope. Claiming that is blasphemy.
@@vceptx
if you read the bible critically..
if you compare the god of the torah and the god of the book of malachi and the the new testament..
god does change!
Catholicism goes against basically everything that Christianity stands for. First of all they call Mary the mother of God, which she is not. Also they worship Jesus as God (which is why they call Mary the mother of God), which he is obviously not. At least 10 times it’s said he went to talk with God, so he is not God. Another point is to simply look at the third commandment and then walk into a catholic church.. Or consider that Jesus said the Kingdom of heaven is within, while the Catholic church is known for misleading their followers by reading to the people in Latin or that they used to sell indulgences for people to get rid of their sins. They’ve also lately accepted homosexuality, while Jesus himself called homosexuality an abomination.
Personally I call the Catholic church the church of the fall. Just like with the fall the order shifted from (hierarchically) being God-Adam-Eve to Satan-Eve-Adam. When Eve listened to Satan instead of to God, Satan became her God. Then she seduced Adam and Eve, thus Satan, became his God. Breaking and reversing God’s order, which is why Jesus had to come to conquer Satan. Jesus is God only in the sense that the crown prince is like the King. Like we say I see your father in you to a young child. Jesus never broke away from God’s order, so Satan literally did not have the right to take him. He was only allowed to take the fallen souls, but Jesus wasn’t a fallen soul so he was the only one who could (had the right to) defeat Satan. Hallelujah, thank you, Jesus. Now we can return to God the father not through deeds (old covenant), which was basically impossible, but by grace. Paid for in blood by our oldest brother, our King to be, Jesus. Sitting at the right hand of God.
Take Ocam’s razor, take trinitarian doctrine and what I say here (which in my humble opinion is as much as possible stripped from opinion, because only then will truth be revealed by the teacher within, the Holy Ghost that God sent for us) and it sounds quite logical, if I might say so myself. If Jesus is God, to whom does he pray when he leaves the disciples to go pray somewhere? It just sounds silly and overcomplicated.
Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible that the letter kills while the spirit gives life?
Mr. Oxford ;)
Im not judging by the way. I understand. We’ve all fallen away from God.
History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did?
@@srich7503 Yes, they did.
Thus the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees. And Paul writing that the letter kills, while the spirit gives life. The Jewish people were people of the letter. That's why they got Jesus killed and didn't see he was the Messiah. But God can make anything work for good. Even the church of the fall, the Catholic church.
@@platinumbulletsniper so either “Catholicism goes against everything that Christianity stands for” is an erroneous statement or “Yes they did” provide Christianity with its rule of faith, the Bible, is erroneous. One or the other. 🤷🏽♂️
@@srich7503 No, it's not.
They did copy the book.
But the book said ''the kingdom of God is within'' and ''the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.''
The bible is not the word of God, the bible is the word about God. God's word is written in our hearts.
The whole story of the bible is how even God's people turned away from God. God had the promised land, but they were stubborn and had to walk through the desert. Then you have all the prophets who call the people back to God (because again they had turned away from God, towards their intellectual head knowledge). It was God's people, the Jews, specifically the pharisees (the learned people, the people of the book), who killed Jesus. But through all that being turned away from God, He still made a way to bring us Jesus.
In the same way the Catholic church might have compiled and translated the bible, but at the same time they are lost in the desert.
Mary is not the mother of God.
Jesus was not God.
Praying to Mary is basically the same as Eve listening to the snake.
Jesus came and conquered. .
We are free.
We can return to God and pray through the Holy Spirit.
It's not wrong to read the bible, but the bible is just a book ABOUT God and God's people. The word OF God is written in our hearts.
Which we can return to only because of our crown prince and loving oldest brother Jesus Christ, sitting at the right hand of God the Father.
I mean no harm.
Greetings and be well (:
@@platinumbulletsniper ummmm no you said yes to the above. That is the Catholic/Orthodox church, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, chose the books of the Bible in the 5th century when the church was not in agreement of those books. So if you do not trust the same church to interpret the same scriptures today that chose those scriptures to begin with it’s ludicrous. Either you dont trust her to interpret the scriptures today and therefore could not have chose the correct books to begin with or if you trust her to have choose the correct books to begin with it only makes sense to trust her to interpret those same books today. You cannot,logically, have it both ways.