Fantastic analysis. I beat the game the other night and couldn’t sleep afterwards because my mind was thinking about the game. I was trying to wrap my mind around the last images of the game. “Why a moth?” And then I realized that moths are attracted to light, every loading screen we are even shown an example of this. Abby talks a few times about finding the light in the darkness. I feel like the ending is Ellie going after the light. Which to me means going after Dina and JJ.
"She deliberately sabotages Owen and Mel's relationship." I think you need to have another close look at that scene. Her later actions make it clear that she doesn't want to be with Owen, or at the very least she doesn't want to break Owen and Mel up, and she wants Owen to be a dad for his son ("Get your priorities straight!"). They had sex because both of them were just confronted with the disturbing fact that their enemies were not monsters, both of them were questioning what the fuck they had been fighting for in the WLF, and neither of them had anything else in that moment. They were angry at themselves and what they'd done, and the institutions that pushed them to it. They fucked because they had no other comfort and no other way to express the absolute fucking short-circuit their brains had had that day. Great video overall though, I really enjoyed it :) EDIT: I also felt the ending was significantly more hopeful than you seem to have thought. I don't think she's playing the song for Dina at the end; the guitar is entirely connected to Joel. She's trying to play it but she can't, and she's forced to leave it - and symbolically, her obsession with all the unfulfilled parts of their relationship - behind. It's bittersweet. She has lost almost as much as she can possibly lose, but she's also shedding that baggage. By letting go of that, she is also beginning to understand that she doesn't need to die for her life to have meaning.
Thank you for this comment, I really appreciate your insight. I really only included the "sabotage the relationship" line because I thought the nipples joke would be funny, but I completely understand and agree with how you've described it :)
I honestly ended up being more excited to play through Abby’s timeline and learning about her story for some reason and it made the ending even more painful. I didn’t want Ellie to even go after her, but more so because I wanted her to be happy with Dina and JJ. I loved the game and it hit me harder than the first, the one thing i hated was how they threw some brand new evil group into the mix despite it being realistic that there would be one out there. Idk if i’m alone on this but I would fully play a FEDRA v. WLF v. Seraphite game or just a Seattle QZ one.
That would be a cool game! My main wish is that we don't have to wait another seven years to return to this universe, even if we get a little baby sized spin-off next a'la Uncharted: The Lost Legacy, I wanna keep playing and exploring, even if it's with new characters. Though I definitely want to return to Ellie and Abby eventually.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. However, I feel the story is really messy despite it's interesting framing device. Right from the inciting incident it feels very apparent that the plot is about the notion that revenge is an unforgiving cycle. Despite being filled in on Abby's story (and the messy War plot which I can't be bothered to touch on) the plot never manages to elevate this idea past the cliche. We know revenge won't get you anywhere, Ellie is confronted with it the whole time. So treating that as though it's some interesting revelation in the epilogue just ends up feeling a bit cheap? Again, not bad, but not nearly as poignant as the game seems to think. Also, I'm fine with the idea of killing Joel off and agree that it's a logical consequence for his actions; but it's made even more unrewarding when you experience brief flashbacks to the story of Ellie and Joel dealing with those consequences emotionally and you realise that's the more interesting aspect of the story that goes predominately unexplored; in favour of the ol' revenge is a vicious cycle cliche- a favourite of the apocalypse genre. In this I think the writers created an unintended consequence for the exploration of Abby as a character. I liked the characterisation of Abby, I enjoyed that she was still unlikeable and flawed as the player character, it is impressive that delving into her personal struggles is as interesting as it is. But her actions took away from the more engaging story and so I still cheered when her now likeable cast of friends were murdered by Ellie and Tommy; I still wanted Ellie to kill her, despite everything the story had done to show me her perspective. I suppose all up it's an admirable attempt but when i look back on the experience all I think about is the more interesting aspects of the story that were left untouched.
This is a great comment and I've been thinking about your points for a few days. I agree that we all know revenge is folly and won't help you heal, and sort of touch on that being a cliche in the video. What I think this does well though, is make you feel that revenge is folly, because you've been made to understand everyone's different walks, which is something I don't think I've experienced in a story before. Like you don't learn to sympathize with the guy who killed John Wick's dog, or Tom Hardy in The Revenant. I think this was powerful because it didn't let you escape from the fact that everyone is the main character of their own story and everyone is trying to face their own demons.
@@CultPopture Great point. It also makes me wish that Abby's playable story intersected with Ellie's story a lot more. I think how seperate Abby's story really is becomes apparent when she manages to find Ellie's hide out cause it's conveniently marked out on the map Ellie just leaves near Owen and Mel's dead bodies. I would've liked to have seen more of what her crew meant to her and experience the horror of Ellie's actions from the other side but that story line basically only comes to light right at the end of Abby's story. Whatever you feel of the ballsy direction NaughtyDog took with the story, it certainly is memorable. I appreciate videos like yours highlighting exactly why it worked for you.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
This helps me develop a deeper appreciation for the story of the game. Thank you for this video!
Thank you for commenting! Please consider subscribing if you haven't already :)
How can you say something so controversial yet so brave?!
Sometimes you just gotta put yourself out there.
@@CultPopture true but can we all agree that if Bruce Straley was still there it would have been a better story
Fantastic analysis. I beat the game the other night and couldn’t sleep afterwards because my mind was thinking about the game. I was trying to wrap my mind around the last images of the game. “Why a moth?” And then I realized that moths are attracted to light, every loading screen we are even shown an example of this. Abby talks a few times about finding the light in the darkness.
I feel like the ending is Ellie going after the light. Which to me means going after Dina and JJ.
You're blowing my mind with this moth stuff. That's so good! Thank you for the comment :)
One of the best reviews I've seen
Thanks Jek!
Great explanation and analysis! I love the game even more now
Thanks Soccer boi, glad to have increased the love :)
Oh boy, I love this channel
What a coincidence, because I love you.
Absolutely agree.
Thanks for making this.
Now I don’t have to type out what I loved about the game out, can just send this video.
Happy to help!
Glad to see another man of popture here.
Ah! Another Popturian candidate if you will.
Thank you for telling me i was wrong about my feelings about the game. I hated it, and now im actually happy with the game.
Wowee this is the dream result! Glad to have been able to help.
"She deliberately sabotages Owen and Mel's relationship." I think you need to have another close look at that scene. Her later actions make it clear that she doesn't want to be with Owen, or at the very least she doesn't want to break Owen and Mel up, and she wants Owen to be a dad for his son ("Get your priorities straight!"). They had sex because both of them were just confronted with the disturbing fact that their enemies were not monsters, both of them were questioning what the fuck they had been fighting for in the WLF, and neither of them had anything else in that moment. They were angry at themselves and what they'd done, and the institutions that pushed them to it. They fucked because they had no other comfort and no other way to express the absolute fucking short-circuit their brains had had that day.
Great video overall though, I really enjoyed it :)
EDIT: I also felt the ending was significantly more hopeful than you seem to have thought. I don't think she's playing the song for Dina at the end; the guitar is entirely connected to Joel. She's trying to play it but she can't, and she's forced to leave it - and symbolically, her obsession with all the unfulfilled parts of their relationship - behind. It's bittersweet. She has lost almost as much as she can possibly lose, but she's also shedding that baggage. By letting go of that, she is also beginning to understand that she doesn't need to die for her life to have meaning.
Thank you for this comment, I really appreciate your insight. I really only included the "sabotage the relationship" line because I thought the nipples joke would be funny, but I completely understand and agree with how you've described it :)
@@CultPopture There's a lot going on in this game, it's honestly hard to keep it all straight.
I honestly ended up being more excited to play through Abby’s timeline and learning about her story for some reason and it made the ending even more painful. I didn’t want Ellie to even go after her, but more so because I wanted her to be happy with Dina and JJ. I loved the game and it hit me harder than the first, the one thing i hated was how they threw some brand new evil group into the mix despite it being realistic that there would be one out there. Idk if i’m alone on this but I would fully play a FEDRA v. WLF v. Seraphite game or just a Seattle QZ one.
That would be a cool game! My main wish is that we don't have to wait another seven years to return to this universe, even if we get a little baby sized spin-off next a'la Uncharted: The Lost Legacy, I wanna keep playing and exploring, even if it's with new characters. Though I definitely want to return to Ellie and Abby eventually.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. However, I feel the story is really messy despite it's interesting framing device. Right from the inciting incident it feels very apparent that the plot is about the notion that revenge is an unforgiving cycle. Despite being filled in on Abby's story (and the messy War plot which I can't be bothered to touch on) the plot never manages to elevate this idea past the cliche. We know revenge won't get you anywhere, Ellie is confronted with it the whole time. So treating that as though it's some interesting revelation in the epilogue just ends up feeling a bit cheap? Again, not bad, but not nearly as poignant as the game seems to think.
Also, I'm fine with the idea of killing Joel off and agree that it's a logical consequence for his actions; but it's made even more unrewarding when you experience brief flashbacks to the story of Ellie and Joel dealing with those consequences emotionally and you realise that's the more interesting aspect of the story that goes predominately unexplored; in favour of the ol' revenge is a vicious cycle cliche- a favourite of the apocalypse genre. In this I think the writers created an unintended consequence for the exploration of Abby as a character. I liked the characterisation of Abby, I enjoyed that she was still unlikeable and flawed as the player character, it is impressive that delving into her personal struggles is as interesting as it is. But her actions took away from the more engaging story and so I still cheered when her now likeable cast of friends were murdered by Ellie and Tommy; I still wanted Ellie to kill her, despite everything the story had done to show me her perspective.
I suppose all up it's an admirable attempt but when i look back on the experience all I think about is the more interesting aspects of the story that were left untouched.
Sorry did not mean for this to be such an essay.
Will Smith I like your comment, can you indent parts of the paragraphs, it was difficult for me to read. Otherwise it was a good read.
@@pedmonds2011 I did, but it undid it all. Not sure why.
This is a great comment and I've been thinking about your points for a few days. I agree that we all know revenge is folly and won't help you heal, and sort of touch on that being a cliche in the video. What I think this does well though, is make you feel that revenge is folly, because you've been made to understand everyone's different walks, which is something I don't think I've experienced in a story before. Like you don't learn to sympathize with the guy who killed John Wick's dog, or Tom Hardy in The Revenant. I think this was powerful because it didn't let you escape from the fact that everyone is the main character of their own story and everyone is trying to face their own demons.
@@CultPopture Great point. It also makes me wish that Abby's playable story intersected with Ellie's story a lot more. I think how seperate Abby's story really is becomes apparent when she manages to find Ellie's hide out cause it's conveniently marked out on the map Ellie just leaves near Owen and Mel's dead bodies. I would've liked to have seen more of what her crew meant to her and experience the horror of Ellie's actions from the other side but that story line basically only comes to light right at the end of Abby's story.
Whatever you feel of the ballsy direction NaughtyDog took with the story, it certainly is memorable. I appreciate videos like yours highlighting exactly why it worked for you.
It was a 5/10 before this video...
It's still a 5/10 after this video but I actually learned something from it so thank you.
cheeky but still respectful. I love the game, but you made me laugh. Cheers.
The best kind of disagreement!
Y E T
It will happen