How Thin Should Guitar Sides Be?
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- In this episode of DIY Guitar Making, I discuss the range of appropriate thickness for bending guitar sides. I also talk about the thickness of figured woods and bending a cutaway.
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Properly the best and most informative channel I have come across thanks for sharing such valuable knowledge.
A truly thoughtful and superb video, which covers all the important points simply and clearly without being prescriptive. Particularly important is the way you discussed the relationship of thickness to other elements of build, especially for novices. If I had seen this when I started making guitars I would have been a lot happier a lot sooner. Incidentally, I just referenced it on a reply to a question on your forum!
You Rock Eric! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Another quality educational video. thank you.
I look forward to any luthier videos.
This was a question ( the video title) I googled long ago, simply to know how thin is bendable.
What I find difficult to remember is when it comes to guitar in general, the dimensions are often in thousandths of an inch or simply " mils ". If you had said say - between 3/16ths to 1/10th of an inch would be easier to imagine. I'd give you a thumbs up even if you built just 1 acoustic guitar and kept it together for some length of time! It does take some effort to put together a video like this, but if you could give a cross sectional drawing of the position the sides meet the top and/ bottom including the bindings and including a bracing in the background would make all aspects of the topic clear. Thanks for the video and I will view the rest of your efforts.
Thanks I've learned things I'll apply
This presentation answers a design question that I have on my first build, i.e. the function of the sides. I have thought that the best function of the sides is to efficiently transmit vibrations from the sound board to the back and then the reverse. If you ask 10 builders this question you probably will get 11.75 answers. Eric has always been accurate with his interpretations and I am going to go with his on the sides. Thanks, buddy...
The cubed rule of stiffness applies to the sides as well.
Eric, First off thank you and Im not sure if you have done a video on side struts? It would be great to hear you talk more about the side struts when to use them & how are they spaced out?? Thanks again Scott
I have actually. It is in the online course, but also freely available on my youtube channel. Check it out:
ruclips.net/video/4aUToptF-e4/видео.html
I hand bent my sides at 3mm to 3.2 mm thick. It worked fine, I used Black Walnut. My first guitar. Cedar top. Light to Custom Light strings work the best. It's loud but not punchy like Spruce. It's somewhere between the shape of a OM and a Dreadnought.
Thanks for the info. I’m getting ready to bend my first set. I’m using Padauk so I think I’ll shoot for about. 080 and see how that goes.
I've responded to your comment in this Q&A video. Check it out! ruclips.net/video/_8qkMgJgJWE/видео.html
Hi Eric. Can you please explain how to make the “template” pattern for tracing the sides? This answer is difficult to locate on youtube. I am aware that one side of the “template” is flat and the other is contoured. Can you please explain how you decide on the contour of this particular side of the “template”? Thank you for all your incredibly helpful videos.
If you check out the specs on Torres guitars they are all well under 2 mm. On the other end some of the best models from some luthiers, and all models for other luthiers laminate their sides with 2 or even 3 layers. The Torres guitars I’ve played were like magic, but I’ve -layer some laminated sides that were great sounding too.
plenty of Torres guitars actually 1mm thick according to romanillos's book on the maker and his surviving instruments. I got the impression Torres really didn't care too much about the sides or back at all. this is a great video for people looking to make their first instrument, very informative from a guy that does it for a job.
Very Helpful Eric. I picked us some really nice thin plywood this week, .95 to .100 inch thickness, It should make a good back but would it be possible to bend this for sides? Just wondering. What is your Professional opinion Eric?
I made an acoustic for my senior yr project in high school and now a decade later I'd like to try again and I want to try sapele back and sides. How does it bend?
what do you think about doubled solid sides and what about laminated kerfing?
During the first golden age of Martin guitars from mid 1920's to ~1945, they often built their guitars using a side thickness of 0.070" - 0.080".... and the sound of those guitars is typically what most luthiers building steel string guitars are shooting for... because that is what their audience is wanting. Gibson acoustics from that era are awesome as well, but the data on those instruments are all over the map !
And me, on my first guitar, I make a cutaway!
Double laminate seems more sensible, guitars sides are very prone to cracking
I don't understand your terms of thickness measuring like what does it mean by 90 thousandth of an inch? At that level it became microscopic if not atomic.
why do you need binding, can i just skip the step and finish that edge?
Eric, I hope you don't mind a somewhat unrelated question: Would you please tell me how thick a classical guitar soundboard would need to be in order to be immobilized and unable to perform it's auditory function?
I want to modify a classical guitar for "silent" practice, and thought an effective approach would be to remove the back, and glue to the underside of the soundboard, thick additional boards cut to fit between the bracing. Finally I would add a piezo bridge pickup for headphones.
I'm just not sure how thick the boards would need to be to stop the soundboard from producing sound. I suppose the kind of wood used is going to be a factor.
Maybe it's a terrible idea? Thank you sir for your time!
I would think filling the entire soundbox cavity with an insulative material would be a much better idea. If the cavity were completely filled the plates would be unable to respond in the usual way and even if they did there would be no air for the plates to "pump" because it would be effectively displaced by the insulation. Volume is a product of the size of the air cavity and the specific modal movements of the plates, not simply the overall stiffness of the system. For example, you can have a stiffly braced guitar that still has a lot of volume. It just would sound incredibly brash and bright and non-sustaining.
And then, of course, filling the cavity has the added benefit of not having to irreversibly alter an instrument.
What is the best way for a first-time builder to bend sides to yield the best result with the least difficulty?
Well thats a bit of a nuanced question but without getting into the details and compromises...
- use cherry
- Thin to 0.085" and the waist area an extra 0.005" - 0.010" thinner than the rest
If you are machine bending, check out my 3 parter on that on my youtube channel.
If you plan on hand bending around a pipe or heating element then I teach that in the online course "Building an OM Acoustic" at ericschaeferguitars.com
What thickness would you recommend for walnut sides?? I know it's a sort of "medium" wood in terms of difficulty for side bending, but wasn't sure if that determined thickness?
I'd say 0.075"
I'd say do a test piece. I'd say 1mm
so I got this L5 technical drawing here, saying the sides are 3,2mm thick, that's complete bull then?
Hi man i really like ur videos :) ..im building an om size guitar all mahogany i searched every where to found an apropiete tickness of top back and sides..can you help me with that? Sorry my bad english..saludos from peru :)
You're welcome! I would say:
Sides: 0.085", 0.075" at the waist
Top and back: 0.090" - 0.120" (Final thickness)
For the top and back, if you aren't too experienced I would err towards the thicker end of the spectrum. One of the biggest mistakes beginners make is starting out too close to their final thickness and then sanding more aggressively/more frequently than they should. So starting out at 0.120" on the top and 0.110" on the back is a pretty good way to go.
@@EricSchaeferGuitars thank you very much!☺
I'd say test a few pieces and find out the tolerance. If you can nicely bend a piece at 1.1mm go for it
what method could i use to measure the thickness? very new to all of this.
It differs between woods. 1/4 sawn mahogany if you have a 1.1mm you'll be fine. guysaunders2001@yahoo.com
I built a FLYING V for many reasons..it's becuase I dont have all the proper tools.
Pointy guitar works for me...I can get away with it...becuase
Im also a heavy metal headbanger.lol....Never the less enjoy playing acoustic spanish , neoclassical ,folk...ect..
i also hated regular wide fretboard..I wanted it slighty wider than my electric...but no
dice....I had to to purchase regular electric neck...which I didnt mind..it has 22 Jumbo frets.
I play riffs scales as if Im playing my electric. ( works for me)
It's actaully on NYLON strings....It sounds decent. To my surpise.
It's just as loud as my other acoustic...i havnt install preamps/pick up...dont need to.
4" thick..it's my practice guitar...which get more play time..becuase Im not affriad
to dent it. Plus i built it...I simply play it more..it's actaully my second hand made
acoustic....I learned from the first build.
i had wood working experince building nitro R/C models...
I had to build it STRONG..but light...i just used scrap TRI STOCK.
I also used a thin coat of epoxy to seal the tri stock
To help the wood stay glue for decades..i hope.lol
i didnt thin out the sides....simply becuase for durablity.
it's 4mm thick.
I thin the deck to 2 mm...There;s doublers under the strings Pegs...all the way
to the inner V of the body..to prevent the string from bowing the deck UP
Did alot of reserch on the deck bracing...and also have expensive 1950's gibsons acoustic..
which I dear not put heavy strings on any more....or notice issues with DECK BOWING
on typical acoustic guitars....so I sort of glue a brace like a KNIFE edge..instead of flat.
This allows the deck to resonate but also prevents the deck of bowing
up or down....i dont have tuning issues or guitar going out of tune...if I decide to
rest my palm on the bridge...ect.
That's the only brace..due to the shape of the guitar.
For the tips and heck cut aways....I simply used BLOCKS. The neck also mounts
onto that same block..it's screwed and glued. the truss rod is on the head stock.
The block on the wing tips...it's to prevent holes from dents....I dont use a guitar
stand for my flying V....The guitar is FUNCTIONAL...It's V shape fits in between my leg.
Im at PROPER playing position. My strumming or picking arm isnt fighting the guitar.
It rest on the EDGE...not the deck...Or trying to reach over a big round bowl..lol
i also hated that when I play regular acoustic guitars....
Can we make guitar from teak wood, means back , side, top n neck all from teak wood, becoz teak wood is easily available here.
I don't have any presonal experience with Teak but from what I understand it would be far from an ideal wood for an acoustic guitar. You could certainly experiment with it though and try it for a back and side set. I would be more hesitant to use it for the neck though, where stability issues can be especially problematic.
Teak is very brittle hard to bend also very oily hard to glue
how can i send you a pic. i am a total amateur don't have power tools nor the kinds of wood you have to work with. non of the special equipment you have. just trying my hand at making one for my own self gratification using plywood and other local wood. i'd like to send you a pic or two.
Very useful videos, but i think it would be good to remember its only really America who are stuck in 1945 and still using inches, maybe when you put the text that comes up with the numbers to add metric in brackets for the Brits and Europeans.
"only really America"
actually, it's only USA
"...for the Brits and Europeans'
...and for the the rest of the world.
If thicker is better, for sides, I know furniture makers bend 1” thick. Why not just bend it at 1/4 inch thick?
I don't know the specifics behind that or if there is something about the process that makes guitar sides impractical, because I don't have experience with alternative bending techniques like bent laminations, or kerfing the inside of the wood, but in principal I don't see anything wrong with it if it works.
Of course, past a certain point, the sides are optimally stiff and then you are just making the body unnecessarily heavy. I'm not sure if 1/4" would be a bit much, perhaps a little less. My gut tells me 3/16" would be good, but thats just a gut reaction.
I vaguely recall seeing atleast one guitar built with thick sides, in this case using the kerfed inside technique, and many have been built with bent laminations.
Interesting.
I have been using Cherry, Ambrosia Maple, & White Oak for sides in my last 3 instruments.
I'll change the waist radius if I have too. Some designs just look cool, but make bending extremely difficult to pull off. I even immerse my sides after steaming in hot water and then iron with a steam iron on high setting with the piece on a flat surface just prior to placing in the bending jig. Then as I wrap a side around the bending form the heat from the iron is still being applied. The iron really helps my method a lot.
But yes, thicker is nicer considering all that follows and also removes wood from the sides. I slice my own sides to avoid the cost of having the adjective luthier's applied to the piece which makes $1 become $60 and I don't always get uniformity across the slice or cut. Sometimes it's a matter of saying I'll use it as a side but while binding and purfuling may look cool, so does a top and side profile neatly trimmed flush; thus go with it.
In metric??? 2mm? 65 thousandth of an inch means nothing
Please use mm not thousandths that you
No, I would strongly advise against this plea. Using thousandths is more precise/exacting with less chance for error than using millimetres. In fact, if given a choice of using the metric or standard units of measurement in woodworking, I always recommend using the Imperial system over metric because it's much easier to use and far more precise.
@@keithjeffries5469 More precise? Tell the worldwide scientific community of your discovery. And it's only "easier to use" if it's all you've ever used, because you live in the only developed country that still uses it.
@@keithjeffries5469 How is it any more precise? If mm isn't doing it for you, use um which is a thousandth of a millimetre. Either measurement scale is as precise as you want it to be, just much easier and intuitive to scale from m to cm to mm than to make more and more ridiculous fractions.
mm please