Those Cables are hugely thick. They actually have water cooling running through the hose. I was lucky enough to run into the guys installing the ones at Maryland Southbound and they were telling the me the cooling system is in the bottom of the charging unit and the cooling runs through the hose. As always, awesome video Tom.
Bit surprising that they have watercooling for a simple 75kW unit. Bit of an overkill. Usually you don't get watercooling for 200A cable. Edit: Now I get it. Charger is 150kW capable when fully populated and it comes with 2 cable options - 200A and 350A. This is probably 350 Amp version, because maybe BP expects it to upgrade it to full 150kW in the future.
I was watching a presentation from Jon Day (AEVA Qld branch) which explains the splitting! The BP sites use PKM150, which (initially) only have 75 kW capacity (in 3x 25 kW modules) so they can’t split 50/50. If both are in use, the allocation is fixed - left side always gets 25 kW, right side always gets 50 kW. I think this logic is because Chademo is usually the left side and that usually gets the 25 kW, but in this case, it’s a CCS! This is how BP does it - other locations may vary!
Tritium chargers use 25 Kw modules. 3 modules are fitted to this to give a total of 75Kw. So if 2 vehicles are charging at the same time one side gets 2 modules (50Kw) and the other side gets 1 module (25Kw). Tritium always favours the right hand side. So always use the right side so that you get 2 modules (50Kw) if both are in use at the same time. If only 1 side is in use you will of course have 3 modules giving you the full 75Kw. Awesome videos, love seeing these tests and good to see petrol stations beginning to see the light.
It comes from when the unit always favoured CCS over Chademo which was port B. There is 3 x 25kW units currently which means 1 x 25kW is allocated to port A and 2 x 25kW allocated to port B. Will change when more 25kW banks are added the split will change
Ahead of Ampol? There are at least 20 Ampol charging sites on Plug share already. And at least several are 350 kW with two stands (4 cables), such as the one at Seven Hills that started operation in November 2020.
Well recently, 7-Eleven have really gone for a cafe look in their new stores. And they also are planning to move outside of the CBD‘s and have more rural locations. This new look and expansion would be perfect for ChargePoints. A combination of petrol pumps and charging points with a place to sit down and have their excellent coffee for two dollars and the various different foods they now have with this cafe brand. Dave launched perfect
Thanks BP. But its not enough at this stage of the transition. With 2 cables on only one cabinet queues and charger breakdowns are far too common. EV uptake is doubling year on year so in 2 years we will need 4 times as many chargers - are BP going to come back and install another 3 cabinets within 2 years? Also to ALL charging networks, please put in pull-through chargers. Watch any highway on a long weekend to see that the need is there. Not having enough chargers that can be used for minibuses and vehicles towing trailers and caravans will stifle the transition, especially since towing (with any vehicle) dramatically increases the fuel/electricity consumption.
Hi Tom love your videos, I was a bit nervous when you put your fingers on the adaptor opening with 47 Kw going through the connector. I am sure it is safe but I would not encourage you to do that. Electricity loves to find the best path to Earth which could mean electrocution.
The connecor (and the plug on the car) is only energised when connected to the car and locked in. But yes it's good practice to not touch anywhere near the pins.
Would be an interesting test to see if car with higher charged will always be given priority so that they can leave sooner and give the other one 75 back. Like restaurant system where existing table is priority over the new patrons???
On those chargers; I try my best to use the second module precisely for that reason 😂. I was there on Saturday at about 3:30 pm and one of the spots was ICE’d. Not exactly an ideal start.
BP Pulse charging 65c/Kw are 75Kw charger in Queensland (Caboolture) while other sites (not BP Pulse)charge 60c/Kw for 350Kw. Maybe more competition in the years ahead will see similar price rate variation to existing fuel outlets.
@@LudicrousFeed yes I agree, however many Tesla drivers use non Tesla charging ( see Plugshare). Is it because they are cheaper even though they are less reliable?
BP in NZ also have chargers but our one has Chademo and CCS and are also 75kw, but say they are upgradeable to 180kw. Just like in Australia, both plugs can be used at the same time. Ours were free for a few weeks then start to charge. Each new location gets the same limited free period.
There's a mix of Chademo/CCS and CCS/CCS spread across the new BP sites on the east coast of Australia. Will be interesting to see what the eventual mix will be once they start to roll out across the country
@Ludicrous Feed I guess in NZ we still have half our EV fleet being the Nissan Leaf thanks to cheaper Japanese imports, so still makes sense here to have Chademo.
I’ve since learned, from earlier comments, that these chargers come in 25kW modules and Plug 1 often gets the short straw because it is usually ChaDeMo. Of course at higher capacity, the difference is less noticeable because you can split closer to 50/50
Finally someone understands that Chademo is a waste of recources. Well done BP. The older Model S 85 can still charge about 90kW peak (for a few minutes). Unfortunately the display does not always tell you the truth about shared available power. For example some NRMA 75kW chargers currently don't load share at all even it says 50kW available for the other side. The rate of sharing with the i3 is a bit strange.....you would think it's 1/2 each??? What I really do hope for is for this new generation Tritium chargers to be more reliable.
There are many Chademo ev's on the road and more are still being sold as cheap second hand imports from Japan and the UK. What is missing is an adapter so Chademo vehicles can charge on CCS2.
@@alanwardrop9575 Not that many, NRMA reported the % of Chademo charge cycles in their network to be less than 1%. I suggested such an adapter to a Tritium engineer and he promised to discuss this with management. Those who import 2nd hand Leafs to hot climates like Australia where they degrade quickly due to non existing thermal battery management should not get any public support. To me those importers are almost criminals.
What I don't understand is comments like @moestrei's, it's time CCS2 users realise you're a small sliver of the car market claiming that an even smaller sliver is a waste of resources. Can ICE drivers have the same opinion? are EV's a waste of resources?
BP in NZ are also 75kw but they said they are upgradeable to 180kw in future. Z (ex shell) also have 180kw but seems to be currently limited to 75kw as well from reports from users.
No. As mentioned in my video, the adaptor is purely only for Tesla Model S and Model X. Most other modern EVs (including BYD Atto 3) do not require an adaptor for most CCS2 DC chargers
I should keep an adapter like that with my P85D. Where did you buy the adapter from? I recall you may have mentioned in an earlier vid on chargers. Thanks!
You need to book a service appointment via the Tesla App because it’s more than just the adaptor, they have to perform a hardware upgrade also for the car
Haha, I thought I recognised that BMW i3 in the thumbnail, that I always see at my son's school 🙂 Thanks for the review. How long is the free trial period? I'll be sure to stop by there some time and give it a try.
@@LudicrousFeed Imagine you will be at the NRMA day today, but I feel that while for ICE, you stop to refuel, with EVs, you charge while you are stopped. This means with ICE, the fuel station IS a destination, at least for 5 minutes, but EV charging needs something else like shops or cafes or something nearby to be the destination. Considered trying that station yesterday, but there would have been nothing to do while charging. If it was near Totem or down near Harvey Norman and Woolworths etc it could be a winner.
Almost all EVs in Australia, including Tesla, use the CCS2 standard. The notable exceptions are Nissan LEAF and Mitsubishi Outlander (arguable whether this is an EV given it’s a PHEV). Hence you don’t need an adaptor to DC charge. However Tesla Supercharger stations maybe software locked to non-Tesla EVs. Check the Tesla app for the most up to date info on which locations are currently available to all non-Tesla EVs
@@LudicrousFeed The power level you stated was probably due to either cold battery or SOC above 60%. I own a 2014 S 85 which was restricted by 2019 update but still does 90kW peak but drops off quickly at higher SOC.
@@LudicrousFeed What was the reason for Tesla a few years ago limiting the DC amps for a Model S 70D? Thank you very much for your videos - no other way I would have learnt about these new chargers for example
BP Pulse can't ramp up to 75kw with Model 3 as well. I never seen someone can charge the EV at 75kw at BP. Do you know why it can't stay at 75kw as it advertised? 😂😂.
Its seriously disappointing for chargers will force load sharing at slow charge rate of 25kw rather then 75kw for both ports Its pretty common to be ontime with your charging exit then another user shows up and destroy any chance of that departure time.
@@LudicrousFeed The issue depends on site power and cost to upgrade for large supply for KW or perhaps MWs of power. You cannot just wack any DC charger into a spot there need to be site assessment done and also limitation. Like a DC charger maybe be restricted because of neighbouring business like supermarkets that could cause blackouts. EVIE networks had to put in load balancing at their Brisbane airport site to prevent woolies and dfo loosing power if 4x 50kw bays all get used at the same time
@@LudicrousFeed Evie did aswell. But i think they caused a few umm blackouts. A few nice words between coles and woolies have been exchanged because they can lose entire stores worth of product especially cold stuff if there blackout caused by ev charger. Its abit like not playing loud music We also need to move away from shopping centre and servo based based installs. Following the megasites install you see in europe which would stop alot of the rush queuing during school holidays period where aussie do road trips interstate
No such adapter exists. signalling is totally different between CHAdeMO and CCS2... Toms Model S is one of the few cars that could plug into either CCS2 or CHAdeMO but that's because his Tesla speaks both languages.
@@mark123655 really? None at all. Seen a few from chademo to ccs2 like the Tesla one for example. Well then that kinda sucks. Does make it hard to buy a leaf then
@@mark123655 No it is because Tesla designed a Chademo adapter which translates the handshake. And Tesla designed a CCS kit for older Teslas too. In fact older Teslas can charge CCS and Chademo and 22kW AC which is super handy when travelling inland as all country towns have show grounds with 22kW outlets. Not sure why no one has designed a CCS to chademo adapter.
@@SS-yw7vo I used to fill up my ICE car at BP because it was (from what I understood) a locally produced product, now there’s no petrol produced here in WA and its all imported, I haven’t stopped in at a BP petrol station in some time.
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Those Cables are hugely thick. They actually have water cooling running through the hose. I was lucky enough to run into the guys installing the ones at Maryland Southbound and they were telling the me the cooling system is in the bottom of the charging unit and the cooling runs through the hose. As always, awesome video Tom.
Yup definitely water cooled
Bit surprising that they have watercooling for a simple 75kW unit. Bit of an overkill. Usually you don't get watercooling for 200A cable.
Edit: Now I get it. Charger is 150kW capable when fully populated and it comes with 2 cable options - 200A and 350A. This is probably 350 Amp version, because maybe BP expects it to upgrade it to full 150kW in the future.
I was watching a presentation from Jon Day (AEVA Qld branch) which explains the splitting!
The BP sites use PKM150, which (initially) only have 75 kW capacity (in 3x 25 kW modules) so they can’t split 50/50.
If both are in use, the allocation is fixed - left side always gets 25 kW, right side always gets 50 kW.
I think this logic is because Chademo is usually the left side and that usually gets the 25 kW, but in this case, it’s a CCS!
This is how BP does it - other locations may vary!
Thanks!
Thanks Charles, that actually makes sense and a good reason to avoid Plug 1 in the future😁
So always grab the right cable... Surprising that the unit isn't smarter
@@mark123655 Not surprising but embarrassing. I had a job interview at Tritium and nothing surprises me any more.
Tritium chargers use 25 Kw modules. 3 modules are fitted to this to give a total of 75Kw. So if 2 vehicles are charging at the same time one side gets 2 modules (50Kw) and the other side gets 1 module (25Kw). Tritium always favours the right hand side. So always use the right side so that you get 2 modules (50Kw) if both are in use at the same time. If only 1 side is in use you will of course have 3 modules giving you the full 75Kw. Awesome videos, love seeing these tests and good to see petrol stations beginning to see the light.
Cheers! Makes sense
It comes from when the unit always favoured CCS over Chademo which was port B.
There is 3 x 25kW units currently which means 1 x 25kW is allocated to port A and 2 x 25kW allocated to port B.
Will change when more 25kW banks are added the split will change
Makes sense thanks
I guess when the pool goes to 150kW, the difference will eventually be negligible if any
@@LudicrousFeed the charger may still bias port B due to the way it's programmed but can change in the future
Kudos to BP - obviously way ahead of Shell, Ampol etc
Ahead of Ampol? There are at least 20 Ampol charging sites on Plug share already. And at least several are 350 kW with two stands (4 cables), such as the one at Seven Hills that started operation in November 2020.
Who buys leaf anyway lol
Well recently, 7-Eleven have really gone for a cafe look in their new stores. And they also are planning to move outside of the CBD‘s and have more rural locations. This new look and expansion would be perfect for ChargePoints.
A combination of petrol pumps and charging points with a place to sit down and have their excellent coffee for two dollars and the various different foods they now have with this cafe brand. Dave launched perfect
@@alanwardrop9575 Ampol rolled out 5 AMPCharge sites, and then no more. BP seem to have a much more aggressive rollout (and without govt funding)
Please note there is a difference between Evie chargers installed at Ampol petrol stations versus Ampol in-house AmpCharge chargers
I have found with the CCS adapter it is necessary to support the cable while the handshake is taking place.
Hmm so it’s not just me then lol
I like the new handles and the cables look chunky
Cables are chunky as they’re liquid cooled
Thought so. Looks like the brand of cables and handles the out of spec guys drool over in USA
This is in the perfect location for me!
😃
Thanks BP.
But its not enough at this stage of the transition. With 2 cables on only one cabinet queues and charger breakdowns are far too common. EV uptake is doubling year on year so in 2 years we will need 4 times as many chargers - are BP going to come back and install another 3 cabinets within 2 years?
Also to ALL charging networks, please put in pull-through chargers. Watch any highway on a long weekend to see that the need is there. Not having enough chargers that can be used for minibuses and vehicles towing trailers and caravans will stifle the transition, especially since towing (with any vehicle) dramatically increases the fuel/electricity consumption.
Just look over to EU countries where drive through becomes more and more common particular in Norway.
The future is exciting - hope to see different configurations to accommodate trailers and other vehicles with various charge port locations
@@moestrei It's good for them. I just hope we don't have to wait until we get to 90% ev's before pull-through chargers start to arrive.
Although to be fair, in a suburb like Balgowlah, how many do you need? Most will charge at home
Hi Tom love your videos, I was a bit nervous when you put your fingers on the adaptor opening with 47 Kw going through the connector. I am sure it is safe but I would not encourage you to do that. Electricity loves to find the best path to Earth which could mean electrocution.
They’re likely insulated but yup best to be safe
The connecor (and the plug on the car) is only energised when connected to the car and locked in. But yes it's good practice to not touch anywhere near the pins.
Would be an interesting test to see if car with higher charged will always be given priority so that they can leave sooner and give the other one 75 back. Like restaurant system where existing table is priority over the new patrons???
Would be great if the system was that smart
On those chargers; I try my best to use the second module precisely for that reason 😂. I was there on Saturday at about 3:30 pm and one of the spots was ICE’d. Not exactly an ideal start.
P2 for sure 👍😃
Thanks Tom
Pleasure
BP Pulse charging 65c/Kw are 75Kw charger in Queensland (Caboolture) while other sites (not BP Pulse)charge 60c/Kw for 350Kw. Maybe more competition in the years ahead will see similar price rate variation to existing fuel outlets.
Chargefox is currently 30c/kWh.
I’d happily choose reliability over price no matter who the provider / supplier is
@@LudicrousFeed yes I agree, however many Tesla drivers use non Tesla charging ( see Plugshare). Is it because they are cheaper even though they are less reliable?
Probably
@@LudicrousFeed I add conveniences such as restaurants, shops etc nearby. Happy to pay more for 24/7 toilet access 🤣
BP in NZ also have chargers but our one has Chademo and CCS and are also 75kw, but say they are upgradeable to 180kw. Just like in Australia, both plugs can be used at the same time. Ours were free for a few weeks then start to charge. Each new location gets the same limited free period.
There's a mix of Chademo/CCS and CCS/CCS spread across the new BP sites on the east coast of Australia. Will be interesting to see what the eventual mix will be once they start to roll out across the country
@Ludicrous Feed I guess in NZ we still have half our EV fleet being the Nissan Leaf thanks to cheaper Japanese imports, so still makes sense here to have Chademo.
Makes sense to have two CCS2 ports. The five people with an old CHAdeMO car will be disappointed though.
Certainly need to have more CCS2 overall in proportion to the number of vehicles that can support them over ChaDeMo
Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if you unplugged and replugged in while Kieth was charging at the higher rate.
I’ve since learned, from earlier comments, that these chargers come in 25kW modules and Plug 1 often gets the short straw because it is usually ChaDeMo. Of course at higher capacity, the difference is less noticeable because you can split closer to 50/50
Finally someone understands that Chademo is a waste of recources. Well done BP. The older Model S 85 can still charge about 90kW peak (for a few minutes). Unfortunately the display does not always tell you the truth about shared available power. For example some NRMA 75kW chargers currently don't load share at all even it says 50kW available for the other side. The rate of sharing with the i3 is a bit strange.....you would think it's 1/2 each??? What I really do hope for is for this new generation Tritium chargers to be more reliable.
There are many Chademo ev's on the road and more are still being sold as cheap second hand imports from Japan and the UK. What is missing is an adapter so Chademo vehicles can charge on CCS2.
@@alanwardrop9575 Not that many, NRMA reported the % of Chademo charge cycles in their network to be less than 1%. I suggested such an adapter to a Tritium engineer and he promised to discuss this with management. Those who import 2nd hand Leafs to hot climates like Australia where they degrade quickly due to non existing thermal battery management should not get any public support. To me those importers are almost criminals.
A CCS2 ChaDeMo adaptor would be useful
@@LudicrousFeed I wish that was the case, but no, it doesn't seem feasible.
What I don't understand is comments like @moestrei's, it's time CCS2 users realise you're a small sliver of the car market claiming that an even smaller sliver is a waste of resources. Can ICE drivers have the same opinion? are EV's a waste of resources?
It has begun, removal of Chademo from chargers as in Europe and the US. So it's a 150kW split with 75kW on each port, nice.
No those Tritium 75 are 75kW total, not 150kW.
Chademo are not being removed yet. Just not being added as quickly.
@@alanwardrop9575 Chademo is dead. No future EV will have Chademo. Even the Nissan Aria comes with CCS.
BP in NZ are also 75kw but they said they are upgradeable to 180kw in future. Z (ex shell) also have 180kw but seems to be currently limited to 75kw as well from reports from users.
@@gregb1599 Current is always the limit and 180kW could be for 800V vehicles only.
thanks for the video! I have BYD Atto 3 - Do you think its neccessary for me to buy the plug adapter?
No. As mentioned in my video, the adaptor is purely only for Tesla Model S and Model X. Most other modern EVs (including BYD Atto 3) do not require an adaptor for most CCS2 DC chargers
@@LudicrousFeed thank you!
I should keep an adapter like that with my P85D. Where did you buy the adapter from? I recall you may have mentioned in an earlier vid on chargers. Thanks!
You need to book a service appointment via the Tesla App because it’s more than just the adaptor, they have to perform a hardware upgrade also for the car
@@LudicrousFeed Ah yes, now i remember. I also have dual chargers as part of the original spec btw.
Haha, I thought I recognised that BMW i3 in the thumbnail, that I always see at my son's school 🙂 Thanks for the review. How long is the free trial period? I'll be sure to stop by there some time and give it a try.
Trial period ... 30 days? If anyone else knows?
@@LudicrousFeed Trying it now with the Atto 3. I was getting 59.7kw (with no other car on the second charger), and then it dropped to 33.1kw at 85%.
I do wonder if locations like that can be a success, as there is nothing to do there while charging.
Better sitting areas? Wifi, better food
Sounds like a good business opportunity 😁
@@LudicrousFeed Imagine you will be at the NRMA day today, but I feel that while for ICE, you stop to refuel, with EVs, you charge while you are stopped. This means with ICE, the fuel station IS a destination, at least for 5 minutes, but EV charging needs something else like shops or cafes or something nearby to be the destination. Considered trying that station yesterday, but there would have been nothing to do while charging. If it was near Totem or down near Harvey Norman and Woolworths etc it could be a winner.
interesting, if petrol station make most of their profit from the shop items, a customer in a 30min charging wait could spend a fair bit more.
Exactly
What concerns me most are all the scrape marks on the posts! Surely people are not hitting these things constantly? I hope not.
When one is in a hurry 😬
So can Hyundai ev’s use this system or do they need an adaptor of some sort
@@addsfour3499 Hyundai uses CCS2 for their EVs so you won’t need an adaptor
@@LudicrousFeed thank you. Good to know, so there’s basically two types of charger, tesla and the rest?
@@LudicrousFeed so my gv60 needs an adaptor at a tesla supercharger?
Almost all EVs in Australia, including Tesla, use the CCS2 standard. The notable exceptions are Nissan LEAF and Mitsubishi Outlander (arguable whether this is an EV given it’s a PHEV).
Hence you don’t need an adaptor to DC charge. However Tesla Supercharger stations maybe software locked to non-Tesla EVs. Check the Tesla app for the most up to date info on which locations are currently available to all non-Tesla EVs
@@LudicrousFeed thank you
Was your model S limited by the number of AMPs the cable can provide?
Yes, self-limited by the car rather than the charger
@@LudicrousFeed The power level you stated was probably due to either cold battery or SOC above 60%. I own a 2014 S 85 which was restricted by 2019 update but still does 90kW peak but drops off quickly at higher SOC.
It was a warmish day and SoC was 48% when I plugged in 🤷
@@LudicrousFeed What was the reason for Tesla a few years ago limiting the DC amps for a Model S 70D? Thank you very much for your videos - no other way I would have learnt about these new chargers for example
@@axb-wr2ib I don’t recall Tesla giving an official reason but my gut tells me it was due to a carpark fire a few years ago
I think you will find cameras are as illegal to be hanging onto as phones are. At least in my state
Thanks, I’ll be sure to mount a camera next time
@@LudicrousFeed Yeah there is no difference between the two from a legal perspective, with your level of exposure you should definitely get a mount 😊
BP Pulse can't ramp up to 75kw with Model 3 as well. I never seen someone can charge the EV at 75kw at BP. Do you know why it can't stay at 75kw as it advertised? 😂😂.
Its seriously disappointing for chargers will force load sharing at slow charge rate of 25kw rather then 75kw for both ports
Its pretty common to be ontime with your charging exit then another user shows up and destroy any chance of that departure time.
I’m sure BP will increase to 150kW once they are comfortable with a reliable supply at these sites
@@LudicrousFeed The issue depends on site power and cost to upgrade for large supply for KW or perhaps MWs of power.
You cannot just wack any DC charger into a spot there need to be site assessment done and also limitation. Like a DC charger maybe be restricted because of neighbouring business like supermarkets that could cause blackouts.
EVIE networks had to put in load balancing at their Brisbane airport site to prevent woolies and dfo loosing power if 4x 50kw bays all get used at the same time
I'm confident a multinational corporation like BP will do their due diligence
@@LudicrousFeed Evie did aswell. But i think they caused a few umm blackouts.
A few nice words between coles and woolies have been exchanged because they can lose entire stores worth of product especially cold stuff if there blackout caused by ev charger. Its abit like not playing loud music
We also need to move away from shopping centre and servo based based installs. Following the megasites install you see in europe which would stop alot of the rush queuing during school holidays period where aussie do road trips interstate
Glad to see they are both CCS2 for the few people that have Chademo they should just use an adapter
No such adapter exists. signalling is totally different between CHAdeMO and CCS2...
Toms Model S is one of the few cars that could plug into either CCS2 or CHAdeMO but that's because his Tesla speaks both languages.
Problem is right now such an adapter is not available even it would be relatively easy and cost effective to make one.
Such an adaptor would be handy
@@mark123655 really? None at all. Seen a few from chademo to ccs2 like the Tesla one for example.
Well then that kinda sucks.
Does make it hard to buy a leaf then
@@mark123655 No it is because Tesla designed a Chademo adapter which translates the handshake. And Tesla designed a CCS kit for older Teslas too. In fact older Teslas can charge CCS and Chademo and 22kW AC which is super handy when travelling inland as all country towns have show grounds with 22kW outlets. Not sure why no one has designed a CCS to chademo adapter.
Irony or coincidence, EV chargers next to an "ICE" machine?
Haha
I am boycotting BP pulse until they come to WA 😠 ( yes this is a stupid statement seeing as I live in WA)
Hopefully not too much longer …
@@SS-yw7vo I used to fill up my ICE car at BP because it was (from what I understood) a locally produced product, now there’s no petrol produced here in WA and its all imported, I haven’t stopped in at a BP petrol station in some time.