Thanks for this detailed review. Question: Why is that front dial there. Don’t you always want an opening for the shavings to come through? I don’t understand why you’d want to close it. Also, is the process to take a sample of your production wood, and use it to calibrate the block plane until it shaves evenly, and then you use it on your real piece? Do you have to calibrate every time or only when you change wood type?
I understand that Rob has to make a living. Good review and some excellent points. Including the Veritas would have made the Woodriver come in a solid third compared to the two premium planes as opposed to a decent plane for only a little more. Woodriver used to be a pretty good price point for value deal but the prices have crept closer to the actual premium planes and are not made in the USA or Canada.
The major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order. Four other observations: 1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking test) with Hock A2 (made in France per Ron Hock) somewhere behind; 2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses. 3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineers Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests. 4) Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However, a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
I agree it was regrettable not to include the Veritas, though in the end, this didn't affect my choice & whilst in the US last month, I purchased the Veritas low angle block plane (& their large router plane...).
Only Stanley IS for sale in Australia. Stanley or Gordon wooden planes. Everything else is way lower than poor ol Stanley who cops a kicking and doesn't deserve it at all. Woodwork snobs or woodwork thieves, that's almost all there is. An Australian carpenter stole 2 children 4 days ago. They buy stolen Stanley's and think about stealing other peoples children. That's the new gen Australian woodworker.
Because the Veritas would wood make the LN and Overpricedshippedovertheriver cry. Everyone Carrie’s on and on about Lie Nielsen but my Veritas smoother is the best plane I’ve ever used. I owned a LN no. 4 that I sold on eBay for almost no loss. They have their fans I’ll give them that but the Lee Valley stuff simply works better. Plus… PVM-11.
I agree! I like Rob, but he tends to favor the companies he has worked with (in any of his other comparisons), i.e., Lee Nielsen and Woodcraft/Wood River, so it makes you wonder if the Veritas was objectively better and he didn't want to admit it.
@@I_like_pears only Rob can say for sure but I understand there was some kind of issue between him and Lee Valley. Thus he never mentions them. Too bad because Lee Valley Veritas is one of the top best.
I just recently found your channel on the recommendation of a friend because I was interested in expanding my sharpening knowledge, and in general, I appreciate the work that you do but I think this video draws some poor conclusions based on the perception of the planes and very limited testing. there’s a huge difference between taking a couple swipes on the edge of a piece of wood clamped in a vise, and using a plane like this aggressively for several hours. As a professional boat builder and Boatbuilding teacher, I’ve had the opportunity to interact with all of these planes, extensively and not just how I would use them, but watching how they hold up to students sharpening them and using them. I find that even when trained in proper sharpening techniques, average woodworker struggle to get A2 sufficiently sharp, and even when it is sharp for whatever reason, the edge doesn’t seem to last much longer, so in actual practice, people seem to do worse work with A2 blades. That’s my main criticism of the Lie Nielsen. I have a hard time being objective about the wood river because I personally hate how they feel in my hand and I ran into a lot of them, but I could never get running right and I could never figure out why. The Stanley Sweetheart is absolute garbage. We both agree on that. The Veritas deserves more credit, it’s a decent plane that tunes up nicely and I really appreciate that I can choose the blade steel that comes with when making the purchase. The lever cap that you mentioned actually has a purpose, the broader surface area contacting the blade as opposed to the single point of the other styles allows you to tune the cap pressure to where the blade will stay put, but can also be slightly adjusted in and out without unscrewing the thumb wheel, which is really useful for micro adjusting on the fly. The cap style of the Stanley plane and also the older record planes are functionally similar in this way. The important thing to know about the Stanley planes, however is that there are vast differences between the generations. The Stanley block planes that were made in the United States up until the 1980s remain in my opinion the best low angle block plane in existence. There are significant machining differences from the newer ones which are made overseas and despite being lightweight with very little support at the front of the blade they will outcut any of these other planes in any wood of hardness up to about eastern ash. They are light in the hand, easy to sharpen and a joy to use which makes a huge difference when you’re spending 3 hours finishing a set of ash oars. Honestly, even the ones produced up into the early 2000s could be tuned up, reasonably well with one fatal flaw, and that was that they moved the pivot point for the throat adjustment into the actual throat so chips would clog in that area, fortunately there is enough metal on the bottom of casting that you can file it off to open up the throat again. Unfortunately, as of 2010 the castings have deteriorated so bad that it’s pretty much impossible to tune one of these into good working order. My current recommendation for my students is actually the new Jorgensen block plane. It costs $35 and is reasonably comfortable with good quality machining and a decent quality blade. Like every other plane in this test, it’s heavier than it needs to be and flattening sole is brutal, but for overall value, I feel like nothing else even comes close right now. Still, Flattened and tuned side-by-side with a 1950s Stanley 60 1/2, the Stanley still cuts better, although that advantage might disappear in very hardwoods.
I have also wondered why there is never any Veritas tools even mentioned by Rob these tools are made in Canada by Canadians. But he pushes Chinese tools
@@alanj822 because he has associated himself with a Chinese manufactured product from a U.S. company. He claims his legal Dept has advised him not to comment on Veritas. Hmmmm, you be the judge. Veritas = designed AND manufactured in Canada, a quality product. Lie Neilsen and Veritas are quality. Wood River isn't as good as he makes it out to be.
Is it coincidence that the one he recommended happens to be the one he sells on his website? I have the lie neilson but used a friends veritas for the 1st time and it just felt better in the hand.
I think that the criteria that Rob has used to evaluate the planes are very good. I have some older iron bodied planes, some 1940's ones, some 1960's models and some current ones. I applied Rob's criteria to those in my workshop. My conclusion is that the premium planes of today are superior to the planes of the past. We have better designs, better metallurgy and those produced in North America have better workmanship.
Best Block Plane For Beginner??? Rob chose the two most expensive premium planes. Rob said: "Let me explain any potential bias..." This was definitely based on his bias. It sounds like an "Info commercial".
I think he did the old Stanley dirty. I recently refurbished my dads old 9 1/2 and I'm taking off thinner than paper shavings from a rock maple butchers block (end grain) with it. I haven't had any issues with chattering save for once when I accidentally sent the blade out way to deep, but I couldn't even push it through the wood at that point. I should note that I flattened the bottom because it was rusted pretty bad, so I don't know how flat it was originally. The cap also really isn't a problem imo because if you don't have the screw crazy cranked down like he does you can make adjustments just fine without backing it off. Edge retention is not great, but again, end grain maple.
If you go with the Lie Neilsen, then instead of the 60 1/2, the 60 1/2 rabbet is what I would prefer (do). It does everything the regular 60 1/2 does, and it does rabbets and tenon cheeks as well. It costs $10 more.
Hi rob. I guess I would have enjoyed this more if you had included the Veritas low angle block. It's expensive, but I also have one of the old stanleys, and the difference is astronoomical!!
Yay, verily: the major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order. Four other observations: 1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking Magazine test) with Hock A2 somewhere behind; 2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses. 3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineer's Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests. 4) Yay, verily: the major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order. Footnote: Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However. a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
In defense of the old 60 1/2, the ones made a century ago have a large bedding surface like the LN or WR planes do. That skinny bedding strip is something that began in the 50’s, I think.. t makes a huge difference. .
Proove you bought it. 90% are stolen and we'd love to catch the thieves. You've admitted you've got at least 1. Why don't you have the set? Were you only offered 1 at the pub? Where's the res of them. we know carpenters are in possession of all the stolen Stanley low angle block planes.
I also have a Veritas and I think it's the best. I bought a tote add on and a large front knob that makes it like a LA #1 hand plane, fantastic to play with. I would buy just for the curiousity the Woodriver as a second LA plane...
My Stanley Sweetheart block plane is about 2 years old and it doesn't have the toe plate problem you encountered. It will tighten the throat up as tight as I want. The lateral adjustment is much tighter than yours too. The mystery material lever cap is holding up well and it's comfortable in my hand. I did have to spend about half an hour flattening the sole and easing the corners. IMO, the Stanley is the equal of the Wood River unless it's a lemon like you apparently received. Pretty unwise of Stanley to send YOU a lemon.
We purchased it off of Amazon so they didnt know ir was me. I can only review what they send me and if that passes quality control I am concerned about their quality control. Even if the throat closed because I find it too heavy in the hand and the adjustment threads are milled into a piece of aluminum not steel I would pay the extra $20 for the WR
Just curious why you left out the Veritas block plane. Would have been a good comparison with the Lie-Nielsen, even though neither are really beginner planes.
My legal team has advised me not to comment on that brand, and so I heed that direction. However, I disagree with your statement about LN not being a beginner’s plane. I believe that as a beginner you need all the help you can get. You need a plane that works properly right out of the box. One that is easy to adjust, holds an edge well (if they’re new to sharpening it would be frustrating to have to resharpen, as well as re-set the plane often) and doesn’t produce any chatter. Remember, a professional would know why a plane isn’t performing well, a beginner would assume that’s just how it is.
I have been using a Stanley 60 and a half for over thirty five years professionally. Both with the standard and thicker after market Hock blades. The standard blades work fine in soft and hardwood. Perfect for trimming end grain, scrubbing nasty knots to save your smoother plane iron. The real trick is to wet the end grain before you plane it. We use them for thug work. Breaking arrises, cleaning up joints, scrubbing tenons to fit. It's not really a finishing plane but can't imagine life in the shop without one. Indispensable workhorse of a tool. Makes trimming through tenons quick and easy.
Yeah, ok, so no surprises on the outcome 😏 No doubt both the WR as well as the LN block planes deserve to be at the top, but one might ask oneself if there is any sense at all in comparing high-end tools with common diy stuff that comes in at 20% of the price of the others ... you wouldn't compare a bmw to a tata either i would say.
Please stop use than car references! They don't work in the non-car world. If you look at bwm and tata you will notice the difference without even turning engine on. This is not true about planes or saw. From the first glimpse you will barely see the difference between those 6 planes. Without taking off liver cap you won't see the difference in thickens of the blades etc. Old version of Stanley is cheapest but good for carpentry. The two planes 60-80 usd range not good at all for anything (according to Rob's overview). Knowing differences in detail is important to do a choice. That's why it's nice to have all possible options from all price ranges. And apart from world of cars there are not so many differences you have to take in mind. For those how works with pine wood to round rough edges cheap Stanley ( aka Tata) will do the job.
I would love to buy some LN as well as some Bridge City tools but anything from the U.S. is at least 30% more, plus more for shipping to Canada, plus the 30% on that and on some things Customs charges. If our dollar ever gets back to on par or close then fine, but until then Veritas is the best quality for the money for Canadians.
This is a very good point. Example is the Woodriver block plane is $291 on Amazon where the Veritas is $185. Not sure why Rob did not include the Canadian made Veritas, being a Canadian, eludes me.
I was GIVEN a Lie-Nielsen No. 60 and a model 212 scraper by my father who FOUND THEM in a tub of 15 to 16 Stanley box planes at a garage sale for $50 for the lot. He didn't even know what he had until he showed me...then he just GAVE them to me.
Hey Rob - I do appreciate that LIe Neilsen make good planes, but they are expensive. However I have had my Stanley 601/2 block for over 45 years and it has served me very well on any number of different figured hardwoods. I admit that over the years I have fettled it a few times but I have to say it has always performed very well even on Pernambuco and Purpleheart as well as curly Maple and extremely figured Yew. I know the blade is thin but they were back then and I admit I have upgraded the blades in my other Stanley bench planes but there are not too many available for the 60 1/2 so I have learned to work with it and have never had a problem with the lever type cap and the mouth opens and closes perfectly. Just my opinion - Great video though keep it up and keep safe.
Rob I noticed that you don't set your blade going in one direction. Not saying what I do is better but what I do is when I have to back the blade off I come back past where I want the blade and always set the blade depth on the advance. This removes the hysteresis in the adjustment mechanism . As you noted the Stanley Sweetheart has excessive play in the adjuster. If you set the blade to the desired depth when retracting the blade all the slop in that adjuster will allow the blade to retract when you use it. But if you set the depth when advancing the blade the adjuster slop is removed and the adjuster is backing up the blade so it can not move. I have found that almost all my old Stanley planes have this issue, and some other brands that are copies of the Stanley designs. Have you encountered this or is it just me and my planes. If you have do you think it matters what direction you set the blade in? Also, why no Veritas block plane in your evaluation.
so, i ran to my shop to look at my "crap" Stanley sweethearts (recent versions, i have both regular and low angle) and lo and behold... the throats close completely, and can even overlap the blade... So I am not sure what is going on with your copy, you might take it apart and look at the mouth and its parts again. So i'll have to dispute your claim. I am not attached to any tool maker, btw, so no conflict of interest. No doubt, Lie Nielsen are the best, been upgrading to them in time. I have planes from that other "unmentionable" competitor, which i have been very happy with as well.
I did take the sweetherat apert to se what was going on and its just too short. We could have purchased a “ bad” one but I review what was sent to us when we bought them. Even if the throat did close i would pay the extra $20 for the WR
Ditto here as well. My sweetheart's mouth completely closes and I don't have near as much slop in the adjuster as shown here. I'll just count my blessings that I got a good one.
I have the newer one too, and it closes to the point of overlap too, so no complaints here. There’s been similar complaints about the low angle jack as well, but again, mine is completely fine. So if anyone is watching this and you think it’s worth the effort, just return it until you get a good one.
I'm new to carpentry, looking for my first block plane and I have the money to spend. But... Reading through the comments, it appears Veritas is missing here. Perhaps personal issues with Mr. Cosman and Veritas? I could dig for an answer here but I'll just leave it at that. This is a great review but incomplete. I now have to go to a different reviewer who includes the Veritas to make a more informed decision.
one quick thing you did not cover, manufacture support, I have a lie Nielsen (3 actually) block planes, 2-rabbiting and 1 low angle with the adjustable throat, 2 years ago I accidentally hit one of my rabbiting planes with a piece of wood, swiping it off my workbench and tossing it 6 feet across my shop where it struck a cement floor. The result was a damaged (bent) adjustment wheel. I was clear with Lie Nielsen that the fault was totally mine, and that the plane had been abused, they still replaced the plane for free (I paid to ship) they felt that their tool should have been able to withstand the impact, they take their lifetime warranty very seriously. They might be the most expensive, but they are the best built and the best supported.
Yes, i can confirm they have great customer support. I have no experience with customer support of the other planes ( except WR) so I could not comment fairly on that aspect for all planes so I left that out
You are much better off spending an extra $20 and upgrading from the regular Lie Nielsen block plane to their Rabbeting block plane. There are numerous videos on it.......and it's fantastic.
I have been very happy with my L-N 60-1/2 for many years. I also have the 102 low angle and the 101 violin maker's plane. I use the 101 a lot for super fine guitar building tasks and it has a fixed mouth opening. I cut pieces of thin brass shim stock under the blade, which raises it up slightly. In turn, I am able to project the blade farther forward to close the gap without burying the blade deeper than I desire. I know that fiddling with a $100 violin maker's plane (no pun intended) seem like a waste, but this way I can get the performance I desire.
@@TristanJCumpole The top two were what I expected, too, and similar to comments of others. You can reach the same conclusion just looking at their respective web sites. I learned something about the Sweetheart, already have the cheap Stanley, and now have to decide how badly I want a Rolls Royce when a Cadillac will do much the same job.
Hi Rob, Any reason you left out the Lee Valley block plane? I think it would have been at least equal to the Lie Nielson or close to it. By the way, I've got an old Stanley that I've had since I was a kid (some 60 years ago). It's not a low angle as my Lee Valley is but I use it especially when I go out to the place where I buy wood to clean off the rough edges to see what the wood looks like. I wouldn't take my LV off for that use.
I have the Taytools 69 1/2 block plane. I know it is not a premium plane. I have no problem with the adjustment. It works great. It also holds it's edge very nicely. I love it. I am really surprised it got such a bad review from Rob. Maybe he just got a lemon.
I have the Chinese made Luban block plane ; very similar to that first plane. It works well but the adjustment dial under the brass knob is awkward to get at. It should be bigger in diameter as it is difficult to adjust.
Hello Mr. Rob, just started watching your videos and like the measuring tool your using. I’ve looked at your website and don’t see it there. Could you tell me the brand and name? I’d appreciate it. I was also looking for the planer you used in your video. The description says the items your using are listed on you websites page. I don’t see them either. Really enjoy watching you. Thank you
The L-N was the first truly good plane that I bought - it was expensive but it opened my eyes to planing. Later I bought a Stanley 60-1/2 from the estate of a 1950s GM body stylist / patternmaker, and it was tuned to perfection. None of the other planes that i bought or was given are worth mentioning.
Probably a silly question, but given my restricted budget, could the lie nielsen rabbet plane double for a block plane understanding that it has a fixed throat, killing two jobs with one plane?
Thanks Rob for putting the subtitles on so quickly, thinking about those with little worries. I very much appreciate your videos as well as your kindness in helping us and responding as much as possible.👏 and since I'm clumsy I deleted my first text when I wanted to edit it. thanks Rob 👍
Maxou...I just got home and checked the video and subtitles were on. I have my upload defaults set to turn subtitles on every video, automatically. RUclips does the auto subtitles so maybe their system was a little slow on this particular video, but I did nothing to "turn them on"
I used a millers falls no 9 fettled in same way as a a same sized, equal set p heavie Lie Nielsen (beautiful plane). The bite of the millers was better but cannot understand why that is so ?
I have some of my dad's old planes that I'm refurbishing. He was a master carpenter for 45 years and i learned a lot from him. I was from Canada and sadly I wasnt able to get all his tools down to Texas after he passed away. I did get several of his antique wooden planes but I am missing his a block planes (and other specialty planes he had) so I want to buy one...but which to buy? Your review was absolutely excellent and comprehensive. You covered all the necessary and important criteria in your evaluations of each plane in a systematic and easy to follow manner. Based on your recommendation, I will buy the Wood River low angle block plane. I've watched several other reviews and they were essentially worthless and poorly done compared to yours...they were basically a waste of time. I noticed you did not have the Veritas plane in your lineup...wondered why? I want to thank you for doing such a great job reviewing these planes in such a factual and organized manner. I watch several other shows on woodworking but none holds a candle to yours. You are far and away the best on you tube.
I had two cheap block planes that I decided to refurbish. So I sharpened the blades and started flattening the soles. They were hard to adjust and really flimsy. I found I really hated them. I think one is destined to become a door stop. The other is getting a wood handle to become a hammer. After watching your video, I am now the proud owner of a Wood River Low Angle block plane. What a difference.
I think that watching all of Rob's plane videos before making a single plane purchase should be my "whoa there" moment. How many times have I said, 'jeez I wish I had watched this video before buying XXX". Just the comparison of the mechanisms, the ease of use, the apparent quality out of the box make such important points to consider, and having them all together in one trial is so helpful. I know many more experienced woodworkers have had their favorite planes, years and years old, and I appreciate that you have some really good ones. But new planes just aren't generally made as well- the quality of the castings and machining just aren't there, imho. Looking at these details on mass produced tools from a machinist's perspective is so cringe worthy. smh every single time...
I recently inherited my Dad's Stanley block plane and had also been gifted a recent equivalent, "same" model. My Dad's version, he'd had since his apprenticeship in carpentry last millennia. It literally saw a lifetime of work and once I replaced the handle which had finally split is a pleasure to use even though I'm only learning the skill. The modern version by comparison is a bit of a disgrace. The machining is non-existent in parts of it. Where the iron etc sits it literally looks pulled straight from the cast and a rough cast at that, on the underside. Even after filing the rough dags off the angles on the bottom could never have worked with those on the top to align the blade and mouth properly or hold them rigidly in place. Rather than utilising the full width of the base it sits on narrow raised portions on either side. Held to them on the base with two machine screws which have scarce contact. I put washers on because I wasn't confident they would hold without deforming the part. I've had to level and hone every surface of it. A challenge as I lack the skill of a machinist to match my lack of carpentry skills. Not knowing when I was the problem or the tool. The backlash on the once brass, now plastic adjustment wheel is severe. The lever for angle adjustment of the iron is pathetically weak and prone to bending. I'm contemplating drilling out the rivet and replacing it with a more sturdy version but I'll be making that from scratch. The handles frequently loosen with use and there is no way they will last the 60 odd years that my fathers version did. Literally every part has needed work to make the tool fit for task. I'm confident even someone with knowledge, skill and experience would have been frustrated with the experience. It made for slow learning although I think I am recieving a thorough education courtesy of the highly flawed product. I understand not being able to use it straight from the box due to personal preferences for sharpening angle etc. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that to be the only necessary adjustment required to have a functional tool. If it wasn't a gift, I'd have returned it. Even on sale it was on the pricey side. It seems to me that the marketing is akin to fitness equipment. Continue sales rely on customers ignorance, lack of perseverance and mentality of everything being disposable. People buy it, struggle and put it in the too hard basket never to be used or spoken of again. It's appaling that standards have dropped so low that the bottom line $$ is all that matters. It may well be a poor tradesman who blames the tool. But with ever diminishing standards poor tradesman producing poor work is all we will have before long. Skills and knowledge will be lost and future generations will effectively have to reinvent the wheel after being taught to put the cart before the ox.
Have the new Stanley SW( first batch that was on the market)and on mine mouth closes all the way up but I had problem with lateral adjust.All the other points you made were accurate. Guess QC wasn't that great .Made it work fine but for the money it should work right of the bat I think.
cosman doesnt even soeak their name. I dont know the facts, but you wont see veritas here. I can tell you I own many of their tools and they dont disappoint. neilson is a go to as well. either will be a good quality, good feeling tool.
I love the LN rabbet plane, but it dosent function well as a block plane. I prefer to use a block plane instead of my skew rabbit fir block plane tasks
Veritas make fantastic tools that rank alongside and above Lie Nielsen in terms of quality, innovation and cosmetics. Rob seems to have a vested interest in LN whether directly through PHP or not, but certainly through past association. It wouldn't surprise me if making positive comments about Veritas tools or simply acknowledging them as comparable to LN would risk burning his ongoing relationship with LN. It's disappointing as that removes a great degree of Rob's ability to be objective or complete in his assessment of tools on the market. This shouldn't be taken to be a criticism of Rob, more of one on a difficult and censorious position that his relationship with LN puts him in.
@@vincentfaure4472 I agree entirely. I believe that this review would have been made much more meaningful without the inclusion of a Lie-Nielsen product, or in fact without the inclusion of any sort of comparison or "winner". Describing the common issues within tools using examples helps the average buyer go out and make an informed decision on what is personally available to them or what they can afford. I'm unsure how to feel on whether this video truly meets the target of "best ... for the beginner". The best F1 drivers in the world came from go-karting, not from driving high performance cars from the get-go. Without the foundation of experience it becomes cranking the wheel with your eyes closed.
Tristan you are way off the mark. I would love to give you my opinion on veritas tools but I have been strongly advised by my legal team not to public comment on veritas. Its all about legal risks i am not willing to take to protect my business, nothing as devious as you conjecture
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Your subscribers take your videos very seriously. If they were aware of any problem with Veritas a few hundred/thousand queries to Rob Lee might help to ease any tensions. Both you and Veritas provide excellent service to the woodworking community. Keep up the good work. Dave (Nova Scotia)
I have watched a number of utube videos and I have found a new resource tool for learning. However I can not afford an expensive plane . The best i see are big box type planes at menards or home depot or harbor freight tools in the states. However thank you. Mike m. Chicago il
The Lie is by far my favorite. The size of the plane fits my hand better than any other modern plane I've seen. I had an old Stanley, probably from the 40s that I also liked.
I couldn't agree more. I bought a Taytools block plane when I first started out woodworking because I was being cheap. It gets the job done, but the description of "crude" is dead on. I am constantly having to sharpen the blade, and the adjustment is beyond frustrating. Once I bought my Woodriver block plane, the differences was night and day. Rob says it all the time and he is so right....DON'T BUY CHEAP! Save your money and buy a tool that will be useable for a lifetime.
I'm also a convert to the save and buy better/best philosophy. I've wasted so much time and energy trying to rehab old planes and it's just not worth it. I splurged on a WR 5 1/2 and was astounded by the performance difference. I'm putting my used planes on ebay to help fund WR block plane.
I get hammered by some folks who want the cheapest they can get but I stand by my philosophy of get the best, you only cry once....As you found out. Thanks for commenting
I made the mistake of buying a Taytools low angle jack and had to send it back. Credit where it's due - they were great about taking it back and refunding my purchase. Suffice it to say that your review of their block doesn't surprise me. Bought a Veritas block and like it. Disappointed to see that it wasn't included in the comparison, but completely understand your inability to comment on them. Wish the world wasn't quite so litigious...
No brand is going to reward you for buying 1 plane out of their SET of planes. Do you understand that concept rob? Buying 1 unit doesn't make you into the special customer. A SET of planes is a set. They've spent a lot of time making the SET of planes. Once you get the SET things make sense. The Stanley user uses the high angle block plane inplace of the rob cosman low angle block plane. The Stanley low angle block plane is used for other jobs. Its a chisel at a low angle. The sweet heart is OLD-FASHIONED style NOT 2021 evolutionary style. Its an OLD low angle chisel thing. Do you understand that concept rob cosman? Keep taking stuff out of context. Keep saying these things you say cause I've heard only what you say, for the last 25 years, and I've heard nothing else from Stanley. In Australia your 2 planes are always sold out. 20 years of nothing for sale. Stanley IS for sale and nobody buys them thanks to male gossip. Perfect male gossip. So every Stanley plane gets STOLEN by thieves. Every day Stanley planes are stolen and every day Stanley replaces them and they're stolen again. Keep gossiping Rob cause Stanley IS making a fortune selling block planes to big retail who don't care what you think. The cost of theft gets applied back onto every thing for sale. Its been impossible to buy your 2 planes but Stanley planes are easy to buy. They're perfect tools for reality. We're surrounded by thieves.
I own 3 of the planes shown. I have to say that using them all, and seeing Rob's evaluation feels the same over the time I've used them. Another very important feature that Rob didn't show and I wish he had is the "flatness" of the sole. By far - Stanley SW has never come out of the box with a flat sole (and I exchanged it 4 times at the store based on that reason). If you have one or considering getting one, please check that and you'll find that piece to be true no matter what store you go to.
The major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order. Four other observations: 1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking test) with Hock A2 (made in France per Ron Hock) somewhere behind; 2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses. 3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineers Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests. 4) Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However, a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
Sorry , I don’t buy the legal dept restriction on Lee Valley planes. I am guessing simple bias. LN’s biggest competitor for higher end planes. I own both LN and LV planes. Both work wonderfully, but LN has the edge on ‘pretty’.
I was hoping to see a review of the Veritas and the Bridge City included, but I'll have a look on other videos. Good to know the Lie Nielson and Wood River are worth considering, but given the choice I would buy something made here in North America. More importantly, I know which to avoid now, and why.
Your mastery of tools combined with your excellent teaching style combine to make your videos both profoundly enjoyable and easy to apply at our own benches.
Can´t say I’m impressed by the quality, or rather lack of quality of Woodriver. I just sent a Small Shoulder plane back with a wobbling adjustment and bad machining on the frog. Not to Rob. Bought it in UK but still a Woodriver.
Was taht WOodRiver of Quensang? BUt if thats what you got, send it back because they guarentee their stuff and thats not their standard. I actually got rid of my LN shoulder planes as the casting on the WR is better than the LN Shoulder planes, in my oppinon and I love Lie Nielsen.
Just want to clear things up for myself The ruler trick is for plane blades only because you’re not using the back of the plane blade as a reference surface when cutting and chisels you are supposed to prep the entire back? Is that right?
Just a wonderful presentation, I have the old Stanley plane from my dad, you are right with your assessment. I have been considering the Wood River and this has made it easier to move forward with purchasing one.
I'd absolutely agree on the assessment of the old Stanley - utter junk. I bought one years ago as my first block plane, but it's more or less unusable on anything harder than room temperature butter. It's very difficult to get a cut set up with any degree of accuracy and the first thing that happens on using it, is that the blade gets knocked out of position and it stops cutting. Unsurprisingly, it has been replaced, and I'm very tempted to leave it in the back garden where it can gradually be absorbed into the earth from where it once came. Sorry, not sorry...
When using the classic Stanley low/angle you never fully release the lever cap to adjust the blade or you lose your setting, just common sense. Flawed demonstration.
Thats not how they are designed. But thats not the primary issue with them. Thin blade and poor mating to the plane that leads to chatter is the reason I do not recommend them
Just throwing this idea out there for a live feed project, how about a Cosmonized Dutch tool chest ? Then everyone would have something to carry their tools in when they come to your class :)
I have several wood river planes including the wood river block plane. It's well made, but honestly the last plane I reach for. Unless you hold it just right, the snap-cap top opens as you push it through the wood. It makes the plane almost useless in my mind.
I was surprised Rob said he likes it but it IS Woodriver, I hate those snap pressure caps. Even on bench planes I find the snap tension lever cap fussy and much prefer a screw down type. I know traditionally they were made like that but it’s one reason I prefer Lee Valley. I know everyone loves to trash on Norris pattern planes but I find them much less fickle. Handplanes can be frustrating and I think that discourages new comers.
Without disputing these rankings… I would note that my Stanley Sweetheart has almost no play in that lateral adjusting mechanism. On the another hand, my adjustable toe plate is a few thou proud of the sole. Luck of the draw perhaps.
Boy am I lucky. I thought I'd waste time watching this video in sourcing for something to watch. NOT AT ALL. What an interesting review. I never thought reviewing block planes would be so interesting. I'm lucky because I have that WoodCraft block plane and almost bought the Lie Nielsen. lol lol lol lol I really did. I'm kind of in the mindset of Paul Sellers in that I use my Lie Nielsen #4 a lot and seldom my block planes except for chamfering edges and the like. Great Stuff Rob but then again aren't you ever always the master. Time Well Spent AGAIN.
The major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order. Four other observations: 1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking test) with Hock A2 (made in France per Ron Hock) somewhere behind; 2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses. 3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineers Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests. 4) Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However, a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
NO, I said the best value one is the WR one that I sell, I said the LN is the best made, in my oppinon. You know I try and make these videos because so many people like them and find them helpful. I disclose my bias up front in the video. I thn do an honest effort to be as fair as I can given what I think is important and some folks just think its all a shame and somehow I am just out for the money. I am sorry you have those oppinons but if you can take a moment to trust someone else I guarentee I was giving you my honest oppinon, with as little bias as I could and I was honest with you up front on my bias. You dont have to follow my recommendations and I encourage you to look around, look at others. I suspect you are in the U.S. and I cant even sell a WR plane to you. But be careful of automatically accusing others when you really have so little basis to go off of. Have a great day
I just bought a Rockler Bench Dog 60 1/2 block plane *before* watching your video. I immediately thought "uh oh" but when I checked my plane it had none of the faults that you found in yours. The sliding plate for the mouth adjustment fits great with a gap that looks just like the good ones in the video, the plate is nice and level with the sole, and my lateral blade adjustment works fine. Maybe you got a lemon, or maybe they have improved it since the review. I do wish it had a better blade material - do you know if the Stanley (non-sweetheart) blades will fit? There are some aftermarket replacement A2 blades available.
The main thing to take away is the slop in the adjustment knobs and designs. If the blade isn't advancing or retracting as needed when you turn the adjustment knob, that's a no go. Whether the plate is aluminum like in the stanley really isn't going to affect anything, and some may want a lighter plane when using and carrying around a block plane. Gap in the toe plate? If it's making marks in the wood obviously that's no good, but otherwise as long as it's a flat surface you're fine. What would REALLY be important is to know the quality of the steel for the blades.
This was an excellent good review. By that I don't mean simply that I mostly agree with your findings (although I do). No I thought your approach was thorough and covered everything important in a consistent manner. Thanks 🙂 I've been doing woodworking for a little over 50 years and I started out as a power-tools-only user. No, I take that back. I had a large handsaw (32" blade) which had been hanging around my family for longer than I've been alive (I think it was bought originally by my grandfater in about 1905 or so. I actually started woodworking out of necessity. I was in graduate school (today I'm a retired physicist) and needed book shelves, actually several of them. But after pricing them, I realized that I would have to build them myself. I remember naively thinking, "How hard could that be?" Yeah, right. Well the first one weren't perfect but the next was better, and the third one was actually decent. As it happened they worked out so well that I ended up with a little confidence, and a few months later I had added radiator covers (one of which was also a dedicated table for my typewriter with a hinged desktop); a wall-sized (12'w,8'h,18"deep) bookshelf/storage unit with a built-in fold-out desktop; a "fake" linen closet which was made to "blend in" in a corner so that it appeared to be built-in but wasn't; and several other things all of which I enjoyed using and all of which I sold to other grad students when I got my degree and left Boston. I mentioned those things because early on we had a small party and one of my professors came. He was so impressed with the things I had made in my "spare time" that he asked me to build a book case for him (and paid nicely). And after that I had more requests than I could fill and for the next 2 years I had no free weekends ... but the things I built paid my rent, so I was happy. And along the way I did learn (usually the hard way) a lot of practical things about woodworking. But all that time my only non-powered "tools" were a carpenter's square, the aforementioned hand saw, a tape measure, and a doweling jig. I still had no plans for hand tools and even didn't begin to think about a plane. That lasted until my wife and I bought our first home. From that point on everything had to be not only functional but also attractive (or "nicely finished" so that it might have come from a store ... my wife's description). So the first hand tool I bought was what I suspect was the "cheap" Stanley plane you included. Unfortunately I bought it on sale at a local hardware store and when I got it home and really examined it I discovered that it had a serious manufacturing defect. The sole was SEVERELY warped at the front, and when I tried to return it I found that the store's policy was no returns on sale items. (The sole was actually mis-cast and the warp was so bad that there was a bulge of about 3/32" at the front so that the plane would not sit on a flat surface and make contact. I'm still pretty sure that the plane's sole had somehow skipped the manufacturing step during which it would have been machined. Sigh.) As it was it was useless. I had bought a file somewhere along the way and after about a week's work I had successfully removed the "bulge" on the bottom so that it would work, and had also flattened the base using sandpaper (starting at #40 and working up to #1200 grit) on smooth piece of granite (part of a failed counter-top). Then at last I finally got to try planing with it. Now I knew nothing about what I was doing, but after more than a little trial and error, (heavy on the "error" part) I finally learned how best to adjust it AND how to plane with it and get the finish I wanted. (And yes, the two are definitely interdependent). To make a long story short, yes, this relatively-cheap Stanley was VERY frustrating to work with and I made plans to save up for a really good plane, specifically thinking of the Lie-Nielsen. However for $$$ reasons I decided to aim a bit lower (I know - you get no more than what you pay for ... and sometimes less...). But the owner of the local Woodcraft made me an offer I couldn't refuse. If I bought their low-angle block plane, the owner promised me that if I wasn't completely happy with it, not only could I bring it back, he'd also give me a $50 store credit to use any way I wanted. That was a "safe" offer on his part though, because after initially tuning it up a bit I never once thought about returning it. So I completely agree with your conclusion about the Woodcraft plane as well. The Lie-Nielsen would be nice, but since I've never had a problem (after at least 15 years) with the Woodcraft, adding the more expensive L-N plane would (from my perspective) be wasting money, said $$$ being very useful to buy other things I didn't have :-). Besides your conclusions, I really liked the way you went over the finishing of the various planes as well. The finish was one of the reasons I didn't buy the Rockler (on a larger plane). It had a VERY sharp edge but ONLY on the left side of the base. Hmm. Only on ONE side? When I see something like that I almost always have to ask myself, "OK, what else didn't get done right?" Now when I look for tools (hand or powered, stationary, or otherwise) I check the overall finishing. Were the places which should have been milled actually milled, and if so how well; how are the tolerances; what's loose that shouldn't be; etc. ad nauseam. Basically I guess that I'm being too picky. But I've never had problems on any tool I've bought which were cause by bad (or omitted) machining. Missing parts, yes. cheap finishing, no. So thank you for your review. I'm looking for a really long-bed plane at this point and you added a couple of things I need to watch out for.
I fail to see why he cannot comment on Veritas . Sorry but I do not believe the legal team answer he gives . You cannot be sued for giving an opinion. Something strange going on here.
Hi Rob, I agree with other comments very biased - my brand new Stanley not the 2 you had on show ( very old and clearly passed their used by date in my view - but you are the expert!! Enjoy learning from you! Cheers Chris "The Aussie living in the Netherlands " 🇦🇺🇦🇺
He warned you he was going to lie to you. Factories make sets of planes. The biggest factory makes you the most options at the best possible price. Rob isn't allowed to take the Stanley plane out of the SET of planes and misuse it. Stanley sells you a SET of dedicated specialist planes. Robs other planes aren't dedicated specialist planes. The Professional has a SET. You're buying into a SET of planes.
Just got the Henry Eckert No 65 (Aussie Plane maker) you want a good plane.... about as good as it gets in my opinion. Almost a 5mm blade has enough weight to make it a great small smoother on all timbers, especially Aussie hardwoods. Can;t get the Veritas and Lie Nielsen is Aussie at the moment and in the end don't really care now ... I doubt they would be any better than the Henry Eckert planes.... Also us Aussies have HNT Gordon planes and spokeshaves ... prob some of the best quality going around ... I still own a Veritas Skew block plane which is a great bit of kit...
I own a Stanley Sweetheart 60 1/2 that I bought brand new about 10 years ago. The throat adjuster on mine does not have the problem that yours has. Mine will close fully tight no matter where the blade edge is adjusted at. Also, the Norris style adjuster on mine is mounted precisely, it is not sloppy like the one you have. The cap is made of aluminum. The threads that the tension wheel runs in are raw aluminum, and they wear excessively. I anticipate that in the future I will have to drill it out, and insert a threaded steel part. It won't be hard, and it won't take me long, but it shouldn't be needed on a tool that is supposed to be premium quality. I first bought a Wood River with one of those floppy hinging caps. I hated it, and couldn't take it back soon enough. I traded it for the Stanley, which I am happy with. My only criticism of the Sweetheart, from a user's standpoint, is that it's as heavy as a brick. It is not a handy little tool to grab and use. If I had a milling machine, I'd cut off half the thickness of the sides to lose some of the weight. I'd also look to see how much thickness could be taken off of the sole before it impacts the mechanism. So, really, I'm glad that the cap is made of lightweight aluminum. The plane would be even more ridiculously heavy if the cap was steel, or bronze.
We just purchased the one I reviewed, maybe their manufactureing quality has gone down in 10 years? I can only evaluate what they send me. I agree that its a very heavy block plane. If you have never used a snap cap it will feel a bit weird untill you give it a chance.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I thought that it's possible for Stanley's quality to have deteriorated in the 10 years since I bought mine, that's why I made sure to mention its age. They are wasting their time if they have let it slide that much.
Sad that the Veritas low angle wasn’t reviewed here. Definitely as good and in some respects better than LN and for a Canadian consumer less expensive because of the current exchange rate and shipping costs. To exclude Veritas isn’t giving the viewer a complete picture of what is available is it. I have the older Stanley so I can always hand it down to one of my grandsons. It doesn’t see much daylight.🇨🇦👨🦳👍
Check out my mortise chisel shoot out review here: ruclips.net/video/kIoBiw5AjLc/видео.html
Thanks for this detailed review. Question: Why is that front dial there. Don’t you always want an opening for the shavings to come through? I don’t understand why you’d want to close it.
Also, is the process to take a sample of your production wood, and use it to calibrate the block plane until it shaves evenly, and then you use it on your real piece? Do you have to calibrate every time or only when you change wood type?
I understand that Rob has to make a living. Good review and some excellent points. Including the Veritas would have made the Woodriver come in a solid third compared to the two premium planes as opposed to a decent plane for only a little more. Woodriver used to be a pretty good price point for value deal but the prices have crept closer to the actual premium planes and are not made in the USA or Canada.
you're right, but how can you make your product shine if you put it against so many better competitors?
The major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order.
Four other observations:
1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking test) with Hock A2 (made in France per Ron Hock) somewhere behind;
2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses.
3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineers Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests.
4) Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However, a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
I agree it was regrettable not to include the Veritas, though in the end, this didn't affect my choice & whilst in the US last month, I purchased the Veritas low angle block plane (& their large router plane...).
How can you not include Veritas in any plane shootout?
Thank you for the great content in all of your videos by the way.
Only Stanley IS for sale in Australia.
Stanley or Gordon wooden planes.
Everything else is way lower than poor ol Stanley who cops a kicking and doesn't deserve it at all.
Woodwork snobs or woodwork thieves, that's almost all there is.
An Australian carpenter stole 2 children 4 days ago.
They buy stolen Stanley's and think about stealing other peoples children.
That's the new gen Australian woodworker.
@@dreyn7780 WTF are you on about lol
@@bigkiv47 Australians mate, no surprises there
Because the Veritas would wood make the LN and Overpricedshippedovertheriver cry. Everyone Carrie’s on and on about Lie Nielsen but my Veritas smoother is the best plane I’ve ever used. I owned a LN no. 4 that I sold on eBay for almost no loss. They have their fans I’ll give them that but the Lee Valley stuff simply works better. Plus… PVM-11.
I have a Veritas. Better than my Stanley and made in Canada eh? I am a little surprised to see it missing in your lineup.
I agree! I like Rob, but he tends to favor the companies he has worked with (in any of his other comparisons), i.e., Lee Nielsen and Woodcraft/Wood River, so it makes you wonder if the Veritas was objectively better and he didn't want to admit it.
@@I_like_pears only Rob can say for sure but I understand there was some kind of issue between him and Lee Valley. Thus he never mentions them. Too bad because Lee Valley Veritas is one of the top best.
I just recently found your channel on the recommendation of a friend because I was interested in expanding my sharpening knowledge, and in general, I appreciate the work that you do but I think this video draws some poor conclusions based on the perception of the planes and very limited testing. there’s a huge difference between taking a couple swipes on the edge of a piece of wood clamped in a vise, and using a plane like this aggressively for several hours. As a professional boat builder and Boatbuilding teacher, I’ve had the opportunity to interact with all of these planes, extensively and not just how I would use them, but watching how they hold up to students sharpening them and using them. I find that even when trained in proper sharpening techniques, average woodworker struggle to get A2 sufficiently sharp, and even when it is sharp for whatever reason, the edge doesn’t seem to last much longer, so in actual practice, people seem to do worse work with A2 blades. That’s my main criticism of the Lie Nielsen. I have a hard time being objective about the wood river because I personally hate how they feel in my hand and I ran into a lot of them, but I could never get running right and I could never figure out why. The Stanley Sweetheart is absolute garbage. We both agree on that. The Veritas deserves more credit, it’s a decent plane that tunes up nicely and I really appreciate that I can choose the blade steel that comes with when making the purchase. The lever cap that you mentioned actually has a purpose, the broader surface area contacting the blade as opposed to the single point of the other styles allows you to tune the cap pressure to where the blade will stay put, but can also be slightly adjusted in and out without unscrewing the thumb wheel, which is really useful for micro adjusting on the fly. The cap style of the Stanley plane and also the older record planes are functionally similar in this way. The important thing to know about the Stanley planes, however is that there are vast differences between the generations. The Stanley block planes that were made in the United States up until the 1980s remain in my opinion the best low angle block plane in existence. There are significant machining differences from the newer ones which are made overseas and despite being lightweight with very little support at the front of the blade they will outcut any of these other planes in any wood of hardness up to about eastern ash. They are light in the hand, easy to sharpen and a joy to use which makes a huge difference when you’re spending 3 hours finishing a set of ash oars. Honestly, even the ones produced up into the early 2000s could be tuned up, reasonably well with one fatal flaw, and that was that they moved the pivot point for the throat adjustment into the actual throat so chips would clog in that area, fortunately there is enough metal on the bottom of casting that you can file it off to open up the throat again. Unfortunately, as of 2010 the castings have deteriorated so bad that it’s pretty much impossible to tune one of these into good working order. My current recommendation for my students is actually the new Jorgensen block plane. It costs $35 and is reasonably comfortable with good quality machining and a decent quality blade. Like every other plane in this test, it’s heavier than it needs to be and flattening sole is brutal, but for overall value, I feel like nothing else even comes close right now. Still, Flattened and tuned side-by-side with a 1950s Stanley 60 1/2, the Stanley still cuts better, although that advantage might disappear in very hardwoods.
excluding Veritas makes this not worth it for me. I know he said for beginners but the Lie Nielsen is there so Veritas should be there.
Our legal department has advised us not to comment on veritas tools, so we dont
@@RobCosmanWoodworking There are many veritas reviews why would they do anything to you legally?
@@samiam8722 They couldn't as reviews are only opinions and cannot be challenged in court.
@@738polarbear A lawsuit can be filed for almost anything but spurious ones are usually thrown out
Clearly there was a confidentiality or NDA with veritas.
I wonder, why Veritas didn't make on the list🤔
Considering all the 🍁 in the shop
I have also wondered why there is never any Veritas tools even mentioned by Rob these tools are made in Canada by Canadians. But he pushes Chinese tools
He is anti-Veritas
@@dondonaldson1684 why?
@@alanj822 because he has associated himself with a Chinese manufactured product from a U.S. company. He claims his legal Dept has advised him not to comment on Veritas. Hmmmm, you be the judge. Veritas = designed AND manufactured in Canada, a quality product. Lie Neilsen and Veritas are quality. Wood River isn't as good as he makes it out to be.
Is it coincidence that the one he recommended happens to be the one he sells on his website? I have the lie neilson but used a friends veritas for the 1st time and it just felt better in the hand.
I think that the criteria that Rob has used to evaluate the planes are very good. I have some older iron bodied planes, some 1940's ones, some 1960's models and some current ones. I applied Rob's criteria to those in my workshop.
My conclusion is that the premium planes of today are superior to the planes of the past. We have better designs, better metallurgy and those produced in North America have better workmanship.
Best Block Plane For Beginner??? Rob chose the two most expensive premium planes. Rob said: "Let me explain any potential bias..." This was definitely based on his bias. It sounds like an "Info commercial".
Well, I'm disappointed to learn that there wasn't a "dark horse" that was good quality at half the price. Sigh. Checking my piggy bank every day.
I think he did the old Stanley dirty. I recently refurbished my dads old 9 1/2 and I'm taking off thinner than paper shavings from a rock maple butchers block (end grain) with it. I haven't had any issues with chattering save for once when I accidentally sent the blade out way to deep, but I couldn't even push it through the wood at that point. I should note that I flattened the bottom because it was rusted pretty bad, so I don't know how flat it was originally. The cap also really isn't a problem imo because if you don't have the screw crazy cranked down like he does you can make adjustments just fine without backing it off. Edge retention is not great, but again, end grain maple.
How about Veritas? A bit of an omission while including the likes of Bench Dog.
If you go with the Lie Neilsen, then instead of the 60 1/2, the 60 1/2 rabbet is what I would prefer (do). It does everything the regular 60 1/2 does, and it does rabbets and tenon cheeks as well. It costs $10 more.
You seem like you are quite intelligent. Oh, I am ordering the rabbet tomorrow.
Hi rob. I guess I would have enjoyed this more if you had included the Veritas low angle block. It's expensive, but I also have one of the old stanleys, and the difference is astronoomical!!
Also a plane that's been impossible to buy for the last 25 years.
There's no point gossiping cause they don't exist.
@@dreyn7780 what makes it hard to buy?
@@dreyn7780 I just bought one in PMV-11. And there are more available online.
Yay, verily: the major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order. Four other observations: 1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking Magazine test) with Hock A2 somewhere behind;
2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses.
3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineer's Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests.
4) Yay, verily: the major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order.
Footnote: Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However. a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
They excluded it because it is hands down the single best block plane you can buy. Just for PVM-11 alone.
The Stanley rides around in my carpentry bag, the Lie-Nielsen is on the shelf in the shop. Great review. Rob.
A great comment
In defense of the old 60 1/2, the ones made a century ago have a large bedding surface like the LN or WR planes do. That skinny bedding strip is something that began in the 50’s, I think.. t makes a huge difference. .
@@Loranzojose2000 The antiques are also on the shop shelf. 😉
Proove you bought it.
90% are stolen and we'd love to catch the thieves.
You've admitted you've got at least 1.
Why don't you have the set?
Were you only offered 1 at the pub?
Where's the res of them.
we know carpenters are in possession of all the stolen Stanley low angle block planes.
I have the Veritas low angle plane and feel it compares well with the best you show here
I also have a Veritas and I think it's the best.
I bought a tote add on and a large front knob that makes it like a LA #1 hand plane, fantastic to play with.
I would buy just for the curiousity the Woodriver as a second LA plane...
I have it too. Love it !!
My Stanley Sweetheart block plane is about 2 years old and it doesn't have the toe plate problem you encountered. It will tighten the throat up as tight as I want. The lateral adjustment is much tighter than yours too. The mystery material lever cap is holding up well and it's comfortable in my hand. I did have to spend about half an hour flattening the sole and easing the corners. IMO, the Stanley is the equal of the Wood River unless it's a lemon like you apparently received. Pretty unwise of Stanley to send YOU a lemon.
We purchased it off of Amazon so they didnt know ir was me. I can only review what they send me and if that passes quality control I am concerned about their quality control. Even if the throat closed because I find it too heavy in the hand and the adjustment threads are milled into a piece of aluminum not steel I would pay the extra $20 for the WR
Just curious why you left out the Veritas block plane. Would have been a good comparison with the Lie-Nielsen, even though neither are really beginner planes.
My legal team has advised me not to comment on that brand, and so I heed that direction. However, I disagree with your statement about LN not being a beginner’s plane. I believe that as a beginner you need all the help you can get. You need a plane that works properly right out of the box. One that is easy to adjust, holds an edge well (if they’re new to sharpening it would be frustrating to have to resharpen, as well as re-set the plane often) and doesn’t produce any chatter. Remember, a professional would know why a plane isn’t performing well, a beginner would assume that’s just how it is.
I have been using a Stanley 60 and a half for over thirty five years professionally. Both with the standard and thicker after market Hock blades.
The standard blades work fine in soft and hardwood. Perfect for trimming end grain, scrubbing nasty knots to save your smoother plane iron. The real trick is to wet the end grain before you plane it.
We use them for thug work. Breaking arrises, cleaning up joints, scrubbing tenons to fit.
It's not really a finishing plane but can't imagine life in the shop without one. Indispensable workhorse of a tool. Makes trimming through tenons quick and easy.
I have the 60 1/2 too. I also have the Record version. It lives in my Veto bag and the Stanley sits in a cabinet.
Yeah, ok, so no surprises on the outcome 😏
No doubt both the WR as well as the LN block planes deserve to be at the top, but one might ask oneself if there is any sense at all in comparing high-end tools with common diy stuff that comes in at 20% of the price of the others ... you wouldn't compare a bmw to a tata either i would say.
Please stop use than car references! They don't work in the non-car world. If you look at bwm and tata you will notice the difference without even turning engine on. This is not true about planes or saw. From the first glimpse you will barely see the difference between those 6 planes. Without taking off liver cap you won't see the difference in thickens of the blades etc. Old version of Stanley is cheapest but good for carpentry. The two planes 60-80 usd range not good at all for anything (according to Rob's overview). Knowing differences in detail is important to do a choice. That's why it's nice to have all possible options from all price ranges. And apart from world of cars there are not so many differences you have to take in mind. For those how works with pine wood to round rough edges cheap Stanley ( aka Tata) will do the job.
@@The9q11. You are full of it
I would love to buy some LN as well as some Bridge City tools but anything from the U.S. is at least 30% more, plus more for shipping to Canada, plus the 30% on that and on some things Customs charges. If our dollar ever gets back to on par or close then fine, but until then Veritas is the best quality for the money for Canadians.
Yes the exchange and the currency conversion does hurt.
between veritas and oneway(for turning stuff), we canadians have a lot of nice stuff to choose from
bridge city is chinese now
This is a very good point. Example is the Woodriver block plane is $291 on Amazon where the Veritas is $185. Not sure why Rob did not include the Canadian made Veritas, being a Canadian, eludes me.
@@stevenvachon9745 I could be wrong but I’ve never seen him talk about veritas. May be some bad blood there.
I was GIVEN a Lie-Nielsen No. 60 and a model 212 scraper by my father who FOUND THEM in a tub of 15 to 16 Stanley box planes at a garage sale for $50 for the lot. He didn't even know what he had until he showed me...then he just GAVE them to me.
Where oh where did the Veritas go? Oh where oh where can it be?
Hey Rob - I do appreciate that LIe Neilsen make good planes, but they are expensive. However I have had my Stanley 601/2 block for over 45 years and it has served me very well on any number of different figured hardwoods. I admit that over the years I have fettled it a few times but I have to say it has always performed very well even on Pernambuco and Purpleheart as well as curly Maple and extremely figured Yew. I know the blade is thin but they were back then and I admit I have upgraded the blades in my other Stanley bench planes but there are not too many available for the 60 1/2 so I have learned to work with it and have never had a problem with the lever type cap and the mouth opens and closes perfectly. Just my opinion - Great video though keep it up and keep safe.
Rob I noticed that you don't set your blade going in one direction. Not saying what I do is better but what I do is when I have to back the blade off I come back past where I want the blade and always set the blade depth on the advance. This removes the hysteresis in the adjustment mechanism . As you noted the Stanley Sweetheart has excessive play in the adjuster. If you set the blade to the desired depth when retracting the blade all the slop in that adjuster will allow the blade to retract when you use it. But if you set the depth when advancing the blade the adjuster slop is removed and the adjuster is backing up the blade so it can not move. I have found that almost all my old Stanley planes have this issue, and some other brands that are copies of the Stanley designs. Have you encountered this or is it just me and my planes. If you have do you think it matters what direction you set the blade in?
Also, why no Veritas block plane in your evaluation.
so, i ran to my shop to look at my "crap" Stanley sweethearts (recent versions, i have both regular and low angle) and lo and behold... the throats close completely, and can even overlap the blade...
So I am not sure what is going on with your copy, you might take it apart and look at the mouth and its parts again. So i'll have to dispute your claim.
I am not attached to any tool maker, btw, so no conflict of interest.
No doubt, Lie Nielsen are the best, been upgrading to them in time. I have planes from that other "unmentionable" competitor, which i have been very happy with as well.
I did take the sweetherat apert to se what was going on and its just too short. We could have purchased a “ bad” one but I review what was sent to us when we bought them. Even if the throat did close i would pay the extra $20 for the WR
Ditto here as well. My sweetheart's mouth completely closes and I don't have near as much slop in the adjuster as shown here. I'll just count my blessings that I got a good one.
I'm with Rob with the new Stanley planes they're crap, I tried throwing mine away but the sole was so bent it kept coming back. Regards Jim UK.
I have the newer one too, and it closes to the point of overlap too, so no complaints here. There’s been similar complaints about the low angle jack as well, but again, mine is completely fine. So if anyone is watching this and you think it’s worth the effort, just return it until you get a good one.
I'm new to carpentry, looking for my first block plane and I have the money to spend. But... Reading through the comments, it appears Veritas is missing here. Perhaps personal issues with Mr. Cosman and Veritas? I could dig for an answer here but I'll just leave it at that. This is a great review but incomplete. I now have to go to a different reviewer who includes the Veritas to make a more informed decision.
one quick thing you did not cover, manufacture support, I have a lie Nielsen (3 actually) block planes, 2-rabbiting and 1 low angle with the adjustable throat, 2 years ago I accidentally hit one of my rabbiting planes with a piece of wood, swiping it off my workbench and tossing it 6 feet across my shop where it struck a cement floor. The result was a damaged (bent) adjustment wheel. I was clear with Lie Nielsen that the fault was totally mine, and that the plane had been abused, they still replaced the plane for free (I paid to ship) they felt that their tool should have been able to withstand the impact, they take their lifetime warranty very seriously. They might be the most expensive, but they are the best built and the best supported.
Yes, i can confirm they have great customer support. I have no experience with customer support of the other planes ( except WR) so I could not comment fairly on that aspect for all planes so I left that out
You are much better off spending an extra $20 and upgrading from the regular Lie Nielsen block plane to their Rabbeting block plane. There are numerous videos on it.......and it's fantastic.
What about the Veritas Planes? Was there a reason why you did not test them?
Because my legal department has strongly advised me not to publicly comment about veritas tools, so I do not
I have been very happy with my L-N 60-1/2 for many years. I also have the 102 low angle and the 101 violin maker's plane. I use the 101 a lot for super fine guitar building tasks and it has a fixed mouth opening. I cut pieces of thin brass shim stock under the blade, which raises it up slightly. In turn, I am able to project the blade farther forward to close the gap without burying the blade deeper than I desire. I know that fiddling with a $100 violin maker's plane (no pun intended) seem like a waste, but this way I can get the performance I desire.
oh come on. That pun HAD to be intended.
I agree with Dana Smith, and would in no way apologize for it.
Nobody wants the public to know about Millers Falls because they are cheap yet superior to Stanley. Any information on millers falls planes please ?
Guess before watching 😁 woodriver takes a first place and the lie nielsen is second.. all the cheaper ones are trash 😂
*slams a dollar on the table*
I saw this video notification and came here to post exactly the same thing.
I make no bones about it, i tell you my history up front and don’t hide it. I try and be fair. But as always you get to decide
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I thought you managed nicely to keep bias out of it.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking yeah i will buy woodriver 5 1/2 and low angle blockplane because of you.. it was just a guess 😆
@@TristanJCumpole The top two were what I expected, too, and similar to comments of others. You can reach the same conclusion just looking at their respective web sites. I learned something about the Sweetheart, already have the cheap Stanley, and now have to decide how badly I want a Rolls Royce when a Cadillac will do much the same job.
Hi Rob, Any reason you left out the Lee Valley block plane? I think it would have been at least equal to the Lie Nielson or close to it. By the way, I've got an old Stanley that I've had since I was a kid (some 60 years ago). It's not a low angle as my Lee Valley is but I use it especially when I go out to the place where I buy wood to clean off the rough edges to see what the wood looks like. I wouldn't take my LV off for that use.
I have the Taytools 69 1/2 block plane. I know it is not a premium plane. I have no problem with the adjustment. It works great. It also holds it's edge very nicely. I love it. I am really surprised it got such a bad review from Rob. Maybe he just got a lemon.
I have the Chinese made Luban block plane ; very similar to that first plane. It works well but the adjustment dial under the brass knob is awkward to get at. It should be bigger in diameter as it is difficult to adjust.
Hello Mr. Rob, just started watching your videos and like the measuring tool your using. I’ve looked at your website and don’t see it there. Could you tell me the brand and name? I’d appreciate it. I was also looking for the planer you used in your video. The description says the items your using are listed on you websites page. I don’t see them either. Really enjoy watching you. Thank you
The L-N was the first truly good plane that I bought - it was expensive but it opened my eyes to planing. Later I bought a Stanley 60-1/2 from the estate of a 1950s GM body stylist / patternmaker, and it was tuned to perfection. None of the other planes that i bought or was given are worth mentioning.
Yup one was well manufactured and one was well tuned and maintained
Probably a silly question, but given my restricted budget, could the lie nielsen rabbet plane double for a block plane understanding that it has a fixed throat, killing two jobs with one plane?
Thanks Rob for putting the subtitles on so quickly, thinking about those with little worries. I very much appreciate your videos as well as your kindness in helping us and responding as much as possible.👏
and since I'm clumsy I deleted my first text when I wanted to edit it.
thanks Rob 👍
Maxou...I just got home and checked the video and subtitles were on. I have my upload defaults set to turn subtitles on every video, automatically. RUclips does the auto subtitles so maybe their system was a little slow on this particular video, but I did nothing to "turn them on"
no wonder why my cheap big box store plane sucks, there's no adjustment knob to change the depth of cut. It's brutal to try and get right.
I used a millers falls no 9 fettled in same way as a a same sized, equal set p heavie Lie Nielsen (beautiful plane). The bite of the millers was better but cannot understand why that is so ?
I have some of my dad's old planes that I'm refurbishing. He was a master carpenter for 45 years and i learned a lot from him. I was from Canada and sadly I wasnt able to get all his tools down to Texas after he passed away. I did get several of his antique wooden planes but I am missing his a block planes (and other specialty planes he had) so I want to buy one...but which to buy? Your review was absolutely excellent and comprehensive. You covered all the necessary and important criteria in your evaluations of each plane in a systematic and easy to follow manner. Based on your recommendation, I will buy the Wood River low angle block plane. I've watched several other reviews and they were essentially worthless and poorly done compared to yours...they were basically a waste of time. I noticed you did not have the Veritas plane in your lineup...wondered why? I want to thank you for doing such a great job reviewing these planes in such a factual and organized manner. I watch several other shows on woodworking but none holds a candle to yours. You are far and away the best on you tube.
Lie Neilson is the obvious choice here. It's high quality and made in U.S.A not china.
First time I've seen one of your videos. It won't be the last. Thanks
I had two cheap block planes that I decided to refurbish. So I sharpened the blades and started flattening the soles. They were hard to adjust and really flimsy. I found I really hated them. I think one is destined to become a door stop. The other is getting a wood handle to become a hammer.
After watching your video, I am now the proud owner of a Wood River Low Angle block plane. What a difference.
would you choose a rebate low angle block plane over a standard low angle block plane as your first block plane? or are both essential?
I think that watching all of Rob's plane videos before making a single plane purchase should be my "whoa there" moment. How many times have I said, 'jeez I wish I had watched this video before buying XXX". Just the comparison of the mechanisms, the ease of use, the apparent quality out of the box make such important points to consider, and having them all together in one trial is so helpful. I know many more experienced woodworkers have had their favorite planes, years and years old, and I appreciate that you have some really good ones. But new planes just aren't generally made as well- the quality of the castings and machining just aren't there, imho. Looking at these details on mass produced tools from a machinist's perspective is so cringe worthy. smh every single time...
I recently inherited my Dad's Stanley block plane and had also been gifted a recent equivalent, "same" model. My Dad's version, he'd had since his apprenticeship in carpentry last millennia. It literally saw a lifetime of work and once I replaced the handle which had finally split is a pleasure to use even though I'm only learning the skill. The modern version by comparison is a bit of a disgrace. The machining is non-existent in parts of it. Where the iron etc sits it literally looks pulled straight from the cast and a rough cast at that, on the underside. Even after filing the rough dags off the angles on the bottom could never have worked with those on the top to align the blade and mouth properly or hold them rigidly in place. Rather than utilising the full width of the base it sits on narrow raised portions on either side. Held to them on the base with two machine screws which have scarce contact. I put washers on because I wasn't confident they would hold without deforming the part. I've had to level and hone every surface of it. A challenge as I lack the skill of a machinist to match my lack of carpentry skills. Not knowing when I was the problem or the tool. The backlash on the once brass, now plastic adjustment wheel is severe. The lever for angle adjustment of the iron is pathetically weak and prone to bending. I'm contemplating drilling out the rivet and replacing it with a more sturdy version but I'll be making that from scratch. The handles frequently loosen with use and there is no way they will last the 60 odd years that my fathers version did. Literally every part has needed work to make the tool fit for task. I'm confident even someone with knowledge, skill and experience would have been frustrated with the experience. It made for slow learning although I think I am recieving a thorough education courtesy of the highly flawed product. I understand not being able to use it straight from the box due to personal preferences for sharpening angle etc. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that to be the only necessary adjustment required to have a functional tool. If it wasn't a gift, I'd have returned it. Even on sale it was on the pricey side. It seems to me that the marketing is akin to fitness equipment. Continue sales rely on customers ignorance, lack of perseverance and mentality of everything being disposable. People buy it, struggle and put it in the too hard basket never to be used or spoken of again. It's appaling that standards have dropped so low that the bottom line $$ is all that matters. It may well be a poor tradesman who blames the tool. But with ever diminishing standards poor tradesman producing poor work is all we will have before long. Skills and knowledge will be lost and future generations will effectively have to reinvent the wheel after being taught to put the cart before the ox.
I use a $35 Jorgenson - Lie Niesen China copy. With some tuning, not a bat one.
Have the new Stanley SW( first batch that was on the market)and on mine mouth closes all the way up but I had problem with lateral adjust.All the other points you made were accurate. Guess QC wasn't that great .Made it work fine but for the money it should work right of the bat I think.
What a long winded video, everyone knows what a Stanley knife is for, just need to know how to change the blade.
Could you try the Bridgecity?
Nice demonstration, thanks! I hoped the Veritas DX60 was amongst the planes tested, I would have appreciated an honest opinion on it.
Sorry no honest opinions handed out here.
cosman doesnt even soeak their name. I dont know the facts, but you wont see veritas here. I can tell you I own many of their tools and they dont disappoint. neilson is a go to as well. either will be a good quality, good feeling tool.
I have a Stanley low angle block plane but the throat is not adjustable and Stanley is in white.
I would go for the Lie-Nielsen rabbet block plane, personally. Only costs $10 more, and has more functionality than a normal block plane.
I love the LN rabbet plane, but it dosent function well as a block plane. I prefer to use a block plane instead of my skew rabbit fir block plane tasks
Veritas make fantastic tools that rank alongside and above Lie Nielsen in terms of quality, innovation and cosmetics. Rob seems to have a vested interest in LN whether directly through PHP or not, but certainly through past association. It wouldn't surprise me if making positive comments about Veritas tools or simply acknowledging them as comparable to LN would risk burning his ongoing relationship with LN. It's disappointing as that removes a great degree of Rob's ability to be objective or complete in his assessment of tools on the market. This shouldn't be taken to be a criticism of Rob, more of one on a difficult and censorious position that his relationship with LN puts him in.
we must consider the reviews knowing that such facts are daily... contracts, advertising, conflicts of interest do not make things easier
@@vincentfaure4472 I agree entirely. I believe that this review would have been made much more meaningful without the inclusion of a Lie-Nielsen product, or in fact without the inclusion of any sort of comparison or "winner". Describing the common issues within tools using examples helps the average buyer go out and make an informed decision on what is personally available to them or what they can afford. I'm unsure how to feel on whether this video truly meets the target of "best ... for the beginner". The best F1 drivers in the world came from go-karting, not from driving high performance cars from the get-go. Without the foundation of experience it becomes cranking the wheel with your eyes closed.
@@TristanJCumpole Totally agree.
Tristan you are way off the mark. I would love to give you my opinion on veritas tools but I have been strongly advised by my legal team not to public comment on veritas. Its all about legal risks i am not willing to take to protect my business, nothing as devious as you conjecture
@@RobCosmanWoodworking No deviousness was conjectured at all Rob, however thank you for clarifying.
Where are the Veritas Planes?
Our legal department has advised us not to comment on veritas tools, so we dont
Why didn't you test the Veritas low angle and the Lie Nielses 110? Both rated very highly in most tests?
My legal team has strongly advised me not to comment on veritas tools, so I do not
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Your subscribers take your videos very seriously. If they were aware of any problem with Veritas a few hundred/thousand queries to Rob Lee might help to ease any tensions. Both you and Veritas provide excellent service to the woodworking community. Keep up the good work.
Dave (Nova Scotia)
I have watched a number of utube videos and I have found a new resource tool for learning. However I can not afford an expensive plane . The best i see are big box type planes at menards or home depot or harbor freight tools in the states. However thank you. Mike m. Chicago il
Veratas is always missing from Robs comments. I think he and lee Valley must be on the outs
The Lie is by far my favorite. The size of the plane fits my hand better than any other modern plane I've seen. I had an old Stanley, probably from the 40s that I also liked.
LN is a great plane
I couldn't agree more. I bought a Taytools block plane when I first started out woodworking because I was being cheap. It gets the job done, but the description of "crude" is dead on. I am constantly having to sharpen the blade, and the adjustment is beyond frustrating. Once I bought my Woodriver block plane, the differences was night and day. Rob says it all the time and he is so right....DON'T BUY CHEAP! Save your money and buy a tool that will be useable for a lifetime.
I'm also a convert to the save and buy better/best philosophy. I've wasted so much time and energy trying to rehab old planes and it's just not worth it. I splurged on a WR 5 1/2 and was astounded by the performance difference. I'm putting my used planes on ebay to help fund WR block plane.
I get hammered by some folks who want the cheapest they can get but I stand by my philosophy of get the best, you only cry once....As you found out. Thanks for commenting
@@RobCosmanWoodworking My free time is precious. I would rather spend it creating something than getting tools ready to create something.
I made the mistake of buying a Taytools low angle jack and had to send it back. Credit where it's due - they were great about taking it back and refunding my purchase. Suffice it to say that your review of their block doesn't surprise me. Bought a Veritas block and like it. Disappointed to see that it wasn't included in the comparison, but completely understand your inability to comment on them. Wish the world wasn't quite so litigious...
No brand is going to reward you for buying 1 plane out of their SET of planes.
Do you understand that concept rob?
Buying 1 unit doesn't make you into the special customer.
A SET of planes is a set.
They've spent a lot of time making the SET of planes.
Once you get the SET things make sense.
The Stanley user uses the high angle block plane inplace of the rob cosman low angle block plane.
The Stanley low angle block plane is used for other jobs.
Its a chisel at a low angle.
The sweet heart is OLD-FASHIONED style NOT 2021 evolutionary style.
Its an OLD low angle chisel thing.
Do you understand that concept rob cosman?
Keep taking stuff out of context.
Keep saying these things you say cause I've heard only what you say, for the last 25 years, and I've heard nothing else from Stanley.
In Australia your 2 planes are always sold out.
20 years of nothing for sale.
Stanley IS for sale and nobody buys them thanks to male gossip.
Perfect male gossip.
So every Stanley plane gets STOLEN by thieves.
Every day Stanley planes are stolen and every day Stanley replaces them and they're stolen again.
Keep gossiping Rob cause Stanley IS making a fortune selling block planes to big retail who don't care what you think.
The cost of theft gets applied back onto every thing for sale.
Its been impossible to buy your 2 planes but Stanley planes are easy to buy.
They're perfect tools for reality.
We're surrounded by thieves.
Therapy dude, today!
Do you have same beef with Veritas, it seems you never even mention it, while this is an Canadian brand right?
I own 3 of the planes shown. I have to say that using them all, and seeing Rob's evaluation feels the same over the time I've used them. Another very important feature that Rob didn't show and I wish he had is the "flatness" of the sole. By far - Stanley SW has never come out of the box with a flat sole (and I exchanged it 4 times at the store based on that reason). If you have one or considering getting one, please check that and you'll find that piece to be true no matter what store you go to.
The major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order.
Four other observations:
1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking test) with Hock A2 (made in France per Ron Hock) somewhere behind;
2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses.
3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineers Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests.
4) Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However, a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
Nice review, but I would have liked to see your take on Lee Valley Veritas, too.
Sorry , I don’t buy the legal dept restriction on Lee Valley planes. I am guessing simple bias. LN’s biggest competitor for higher end planes. I own both LN and LV planes. Both work wonderfully, but LN has the edge on ‘pretty’.
Dont “buy it”? Not for sale. You asked I told.
I was hoping to see a review of the Veritas and the Bridge City included, but I'll have a look on other videos. Good to know the Lie Nielson and Wood River are worth considering, but given the choice I would buy something made here in North America. More importantly, I know which to avoid now, and why.
As a point of reference, modern Bridge City Tools are mfd in China.
Wow, it's like watching paint dry.
Your mastery of tools combined with your excellent teaching style combine to make your videos both profoundly enjoyable and easy to apply at our own benches.
Wrong.
The 2 recommend planes have been continuously sold out for 25 years.
Can´t say I’m impressed by the quality, or rather lack of quality of Woodriver. I just sent a Small Shoulder plane back with a wobbling adjustment and bad machining on the frog. Not to Rob. Bought it in UK but still a Woodriver.
Was taht WOodRiver of Quensang? BUt if thats what you got, send it back because they guarentee their stuff and thats not their standard. I actually got rid of my LN shoulder planes as the casting on the WR is better than the LN Shoulder planes, in my oppinon and I love Lie Nielsen.
Veritas?
Our legal department has advised us not to comment on veritas tools, so we dont
Why no Veritas low angle block plane in the test group?
Just want to clear things up for myself
The ruler trick is for plane blades only because you’re not using the back of the plane blade as a reference surface when cutting and chisels you are supposed to prep the entire back? Is that right?
Right on!
Rob, what is your opinion about Rali planes from Switzerland?
Haven’t used them, but they look like junk.
Just a wonderful presentation, I have the old Stanley plane from my dad, you are right with your assessment. I have been considering the Wood River and this has made it easier to move forward with purchasing one.
what about the Veritas block plane ?
I'd absolutely agree on the assessment of the old Stanley - utter junk. I bought one years ago as my first block plane, but it's more or less unusable on anything harder than room temperature butter. It's very difficult to get a cut set up with any degree of accuracy and the first thing that happens on using it, is that the blade gets knocked out of position and it stops cutting. Unsurprisingly, it has been replaced, and I'm very tempted to leave it in the back garden where it can gradually be absorbed into the earth from where it once came. Sorry, not sorry...
Thats funny...absorbed into the earth!!!! I stand by my philosophy of buy th best you can afford, only cry once
When using the classic Stanley low/angle you never fully release the lever cap to adjust the blade or you lose your setting, just common sense. Flawed demonstration.
Thats not how they are designed. But thats not the primary issue with them. Thin blade and poor mating to the plane that leads to chatter is the reason I do not recommend them
So why don't you pop the lever cap on your 5 1/2 to make adjustments? Same design...
Wrong and YOU'RE a gossip.
You're day dreaming.
Odd not to include Veritas in something like this.
Just throwing this idea out there for a live feed project, how about a Cosmonized Dutch tool chest ? Then everyone would have something to carry their tools in when they come to your class :)
^^Yes please !!
I have to concur with why did you not review a Canadian product?
I have several wood river planes including the wood river block plane. It's well made, but honestly the last plane I reach for. Unless you hold it just right, the snap-cap top opens as you push it through the wood. It makes the plane almost useless in my mind.
I was surprised Rob said he likes it but it IS Woodriver, I hate those snap pressure caps. Even on bench planes I find the snap tension lever cap fussy and much prefer a screw down type. I know traditionally they were made like that but it’s one reason I prefer Lee Valley. I know everyone loves to trash on Norris pattern planes but I find them much less fickle. Handplanes can be frustrating and I think that discourages new comers.
Without disputing these rankings… I would note that my Stanley Sweetheart has almost no play in that lateral adjusting mechanism. On the another hand, my adjustable toe plate is a few thou proud of the sole. Luck of the draw perhaps.
Why Veritas not included?
I bought the Wood River low angle based on Rob's advice . It's a damn fine plane . You can even shoot with it to a point.
Boy am I lucky. I thought I'd waste time watching this video in sourcing for something to watch. NOT AT ALL. What an interesting review. I never thought reviewing block planes would be so interesting. I'm lucky because I have that WoodCraft block plane and almost bought the Lie Nielsen. lol lol lol lol I really did. I'm kind of in the mindset of Paul Sellers in that I use my Lie Nielsen #4 a lot and seldom my block planes except for chamfering edges and the like. Great Stuff Rob but then again aren't you ever always the master. Time Well Spent AGAIN.
The major Playahs in this Comparo should have been Stanley Sweetheart, Wood River (Chinese origin), Bench Dog (India origin), LN, Veritas, Veritas Custom, and the best Record block plane. Yes, that Is A Tall Order.
Four other observations:
1) Veritas PM-V11 blades ("irons") are superior to any others (per Fine Woodworking test) with Hock A2 (made in France per Ron Hock) somewhere behind;
2) Each block plane should have had a surface check on the sole, period, full stop, no excuses.
3) And the sole should have been measured with an Engineers Square for 90 degree alignment with the sides. Mr. Cosman does not appear to perform sole Measurement evaluations in any of his plane tests.
4) Garrett Wade has Indian origin planes that May Be the premium Anants or Sobhas. However, a Harbor Freight block plane with a Veritas PM-V11 blade (Central Forge is the branding) may be the Value Winnah for the Chicken Dinnah!
crazy coincidence that the best one is the one sold on your site.
NO, I said the best value one is the WR one that I sell, I said the LN is the best made, in my oppinon. You know I try and make these videos because so many people like them and find them helpful. I disclose my bias up front in the video. I thn do an honest effort to be as fair as I can given what I think is important and some folks just think its all a shame and somehow I am just out for the money. I am sorry you have those oppinons but if you can take a moment to trust someone else I guarentee I was giving you my honest oppinon, with as little bias as I could and I was honest with you up front on my bias. You dont have to follow my recommendations and I encourage you to look around, look at others. I suspect you are in the U.S. and I cant even sell a WR plane to you. But be careful of automatically accusing others when you really have so little basis to go off of. Have a great day
@@RobCosmanWoodworking We get it and trust you Rob. A thief thinks everyone steals.
I just bought a Rockler Bench Dog 60 1/2 block plane *before* watching your video. I immediately thought "uh oh" but when I checked my plane it had none of the faults that you found in yours. The sliding plate for the mouth adjustment fits great with a gap that looks just like the good ones in the video, the plate is nice and level with the sole, and my lateral blade adjustment works fine. Maybe you got a lemon, or maybe they have improved it since the review. I do wish it had a better blade material - do you know if the Stanley (non-sweetheart) blades will fit? There are some aftermarket replacement A2 blades available.
The main thing to take away is the slop in the adjustment knobs and designs. If the blade isn't advancing or retracting as needed when you turn the adjustment knob, that's a no go. Whether the plate is aluminum like in the stanley really isn't going to affect anything, and some may want a lighter plane when using and carrying around a block plane. Gap in the toe plate? If it's making marks in the wood obviously that's no good, but otherwise as long as it's a flat surface you're fine.
What would REALLY be important is to know the quality of the steel for the blades.
This was an excellent good review. By that I don't mean simply that I mostly agree with your findings (although I do). No I thought your approach was thorough and covered everything important in a consistent manner. Thanks 🙂
I've been doing woodworking for a little over 50 years and I started out as a power-tools-only user. No, I take that back. I had a large handsaw (32" blade) which had been hanging around my family for longer than I've been alive (I think it was bought originally by my grandfater in about 1905 or so. I actually started woodworking out of necessity. I was in graduate school (today I'm a retired physicist) and needed book shelves, actually several of them. But after pricing them, I realized that I would have to build them myself. I remember naively thinking, "How hard could that be?" Yeah, right. Well the first one weren't perfect but the next was better, and the third one was actually decent. As it happened they worked out so well that I ended up with a little confidence, and a few months later I had added radiator covers (one of which was also a dedicated table for my typewriter with a hinged desktop); a wall-sized (12'w,8'h,18"deep) bookshelf/storage unit with a built-in fold-out desktop; a "fake" linen closet which was made to "blend in" in a corner so that it appeared to be built-in but wasn't; and several other things all of which I enjoyed using and all of which I sold to other grad students when I got my degree and left Boston. I mentioned those things because early on we had a small party and one of my professors came. He was so impressed with the things I had made in my "spare time" that he asked me to build a book case for him (and paid nicely). And after that I had more requests than I could fill and for the next 2 years I had no free weekends ... but the things I built paid my rent, so I was happy. And along the way I did learn (usually the hard way) a lot of practical things about woodworking.
But all that time my only non-powered "tools" were a carpenter's square, the aforementioned hand saw, a tape measure, and a doweling jig. I still had no plans for hand tools and even didn't begin to think about a plane.
That lasted until my wife and I bought our first home. From that point on everything had to be not only functional but also attractive (or "nicely finished" so that it might have come from a store ... my wife's description).
So the first hand tool I bought was what I suspect was the "cheap" Stanley plane you included. Unfortunately I bought it on sale at a local hardware store and when I got it home and really examined it I discovered that it had a serious manufacturing defect. The sole was SEVERELY warped at the front, and when I tried to return it I found that the store's policy was no returns on sale items. (The sole was actually mis-cast and the warp was so bad that there was a bulge of about 3/32" at the front so that the plane would not sit on a flat surface and make contact. I'm still pretty sure that the plane's sole had somehow skipped the manufacturing step during which it would have been machined. Sigh.) As it was it was useless. I had bought a file somewhere along the way and after about a week's work I had successfully removed the "bulge" on the bottom so that it would work, and had also flattened the base using sandpaper (starting at #40 and working up to #1200 grit) on smooth piece of granite (part of a failed counter-top). Then at last I finally got to try planing with it. Now I knew nothing about what I was doing, but after more than a little trial and error, (heavy on the "error" part) I finally learned how best to adjust it AND how to plane with it and get the finish I wanted. (And yes, the two are definitely interdependent).
To make a long story short, yes, this relatively-cheap Stanley was VERY frustrating to work with and I made plans to save up for a really good plane, specifically thinking of the Lie-Nielsen. However for $$$ reasons I decided to aim a bit lower (I know - you get no more than what you pay for ... and sometimes less...). But the owner of the local Woodcraft made me an offer I couldn't refuse. If I bought their low-angle block plane, the owner promised me that if I wasn't completely happy with it, not only could I bring it back, he'd also give me a $50 store credit to use any way I wanted.
That was a "safe" offer on his part though, because after initially tuning it up a bit I never once thought about returning it.
So I completely agree with your conclusion about the Woodcraft plane as well. The Lie-Nielsen would be nice, but since I've never had a problem (after at least 15 years) with the Woodcraft, adding the more expensive L-N plane would (from my perspective) be wasting money, said $$$ being very useful to buy other things I didn't have :-).
Besides your conclusions, I really liked the way you went over the finishing of the various planes as well. The finish was one of the reasons I didn't buy the Rockler (on a larger plane). It had a VERY sharp edge but ONLY on the left side of the base. Hmm. Only on ONE side? When I see something like that I almost always have to ask myself, "OK, what else didn't get done right?"
Now when I look for tools (hand or powered, stationary, or otherwise) I check the overall finishing. Were the places which should have been milled actually milled, and if so how well; how are the tolerances; what's loose that shouldn't be; etc. ad nauseam. Basically I guess that I'm being too picky. But I've never had problems on any tool I've bought which were cause by bad (or omitted) machining. Missing parts, yes. cheap finishing, no.
So thank you for your review. I'm looking for a really long-bed plane at this point and you added a couple of things I need to watch out for.
I fail to see why he cannot comment on Veritas . Sorry but I do not believe the legal team answer he gives . You cannot be sued for giving an opinion. Something strange going on here.
My legal team has advised me not to comment on Veritas. Believe what you want to believe.
No Veritas??? Shame Shame.
Hi Rob,
I agree with other comments very biased - my brand new Stanley not the 2 you had on show ( very old and clearly passed their used by date in my view - but you are the expert!! Enjoy learning from you! Cheers Chris "The Aussie living in the Netherlands " 🇦🇺🇦🇺
Bias disclosure = thumbs up
Thank you! As a beginner I need good honest technical advice.
Thank you for watching and commenting
He warned you he was going to lie to you.
Factories make sets of planes.
The biggest factory makes you the most options at the best possible price.
Rob isn't allowed to take the Stanley plane out of the SET of planes and misuse it.
Stanley sells you a SET of dedicated specialist planes.
Robs other planes aren't dedicated specialist planes.
The Professional has a SET.
You're buying into a SET of planes.
Just got the Henry Eckert No 65 (Aussie Plane maker) you want a good plane.... about as good as it gets in my opinion. Almost a 5mm blade has enough weight to make it a great small smoother on all timbers, especially Aussie hardwoods. Can;t get the Veritas and Lie Nielsen is Aussie at the moment and in the end don't really care now ... I doubt they would be any better than the Henry Eckert planes.... Also us Aussies have HNT Gordon planes and spokeshaves ... prob some of the best quality going around ... I still own a Veritas Skew block plane which is a great bit of kit...
I own a Stanley Sweetheart 60 1/2 that I bought brand new about 10 years ago.
The throat adjuster on mine does not have the problem that yours has. Mine will close fully tight no matter where the blade edge is adjusted at.
Also, the Norris style adjuster on mine is mounted precisely, it is not sloppy like the one you have.
The cap is made of aluminum. The threads that the tension wheel runs in are raw aluminum, and they wear excessively. I anticipate that in the future I will have to drill it out, and insert a threaded steel part. It won't be hard, and it won't take me long, but it shouldn't be needed on a tool that is supposed to be premium quality.
I first bought a Wood River with one of those floppy hinging caps. I hated it, and couldn't take it back soon enough. I traded it for the Stanley, which I am happy with.
My only criticism of the Sweetheart, from a user's standpoint, is that it's as heavy as a brick. It is not a handy little tool to grab and use. If I had a milling machine, I'd cut off half the thickness of the sides to lose some of the weight. I'd also look to see how much thickness could be taken off of the sole before it impacts the mechanism. So, really, I'm glad that the cap is made of lightweight aluminum. The plane would be even more ridiculously heavy if the cap was steel, or bronze.
We just purchased the one I reviewed, maybe their manufactureing quality has gone down in 10 years? I can only evaluate what they send me. I agree that its a very heavy block plane. If you have never used a snap cap it will feel a bit weird untill you give it a chance.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking
I thought that it's possible for Stanley's quality to have deteriorated in the 10 years since I bought mine, that's why I made sure to mention its age.
They are wasting their time if they have let it slide that much.
This turns out to be a commercial channel
Sad that the Veritas low angle wasn’t reviewed here. Definitely as good and in some respects better than LN and for a Canadian consumer less expensive because of the current exchange rate and shipping costs. To exclude Veritas isn’t giving the viewer a complete picture of what is available is it. I have the older Stanley so I can always hand it down to one of my grandsons. It doesn’t see much daylight.🇨🇦👨🦳👍