There's a lot of misinformation here. I watch your videos all the time Jake and I enjoy your content, but I feel the need to counter some of this guys claims to avoid volunteer church audio guys being misled. "In an enclosure, the band members can't feel the kick". You don't feel the kick from the natural energy of the kick drum. You can hear it being hit, but it doesn't naturally emanate 50hz sound waves at 95db. Subwoofers do that. An enclosure doesn't prevent this. "Putting a sub on stage defeated the purpose of an enclosure for us". A subwoofer on stage with the kick, toms, and bass guitar coming through it is nowhere near the same as reproducing an entire unenclosed drum set. The purpose of the enclosure is to reduce the entire volume of the drums so that they can be controlled by the audio engineer. "One drum mic picks up everything (in an enclosure)". This is the case on an unenclosed drum set as well. It's the nature of drums, they're all loud regardless of whether they're in an enclosure or not. "You only need one or two mics in an enclosure". This is 100% not true. Yeah you get reflections in an enclosure but this is being dramatically overstated. "Your mix sounds better because you can have targeted mic placement outside of an enclosure" This is the one that made me stop and write this. It's a blatent lie for two reasons. 1. When you mic up your individual drums in an enclosure it's not difficult to achieve isolated sounds. Again, there is some reflection but the amount of hyperbole he's using is off the charts. 2. If you're talking about bleed, your mix will sound undoubtedly sound WORSE without an enclosure because it's impossible to isolate everything. Your drums are now bleeding into everything on the stage. "Your tom gates won't be going crazy outside an enclosure" I disagree, they'll still act relatively the same. Tom gates are difficult to dial in because the cymbals are right next to the tom mics. The sound waves that are guilty of falsely triggering the tom gates are coming directly from the cymbals 6" away. Not the waves that have bounced off the plexiglass and come back into the tom mic. Yes the toms are the most difficult to gate but if you sidechain the gates to triggers you'll be in good shape. I would do this no matter what the setup was. This is not relevant to being in/out of an enclosure. He says "The drummer should play like there's nothing in front of them" but then a few seconds later says "Don't have a heavy hand, play controlled, and don't kill the crash". These are opposing philosophies! You can't have both. If you want the drummer to have the freedom to play however they want, it's going to be loud sometimes. He's essentially saying that drummers should play quieter...which is why we're in this predicament to begin with! If your product works, why are you asking the drummer to play quieter?
Great post. Just want to add, it appears they have these baffles in front of a set that is just a few feet in front of a drywall-faced wall, which is just going to reflect everything out again.
I honestly see a lot of misinformation on this channel. It’s become a recurring theme here. I don’t think he does it on purpose, but it does keep on happening.
We made our own set of these for a massive discount. We've used them for over a year, and it's been awful. Our room isn't that small, and our treatment is slim to none, but, we went from 5 tall panels, open back, no roof... to 4 of these types of baffles. We aren't quite sure what is worse, but these were not the answer. We have now designed a drum cage, room, whatever you want to call it. It's costing nearly £1000, but we''ve visited other churchs who use cages, and there are only benifits to them. Yes, you need more mics, but most churches have them already. Also, if you're spending money on a drum cage, balance in the cost of mics. Unless you have a very large stage, this product will not work. You will have to bring your FOH up to the drum level, and you will fight drum bleed in vocal mics. Save the money, build a cage. I know there are many other factors, but I've kept my comment as short as possible.
We also have the same issue. There is a lot of bleed from the cymbals into the vocal mics even with the drum platform that is elevated on the second level of the stage with the vocals on the first.
If it really is that big of an issue why don't you just use Edrums instead? You get all the benefits with the (in my opinion) absurd and ridiculous look. By the time you factor in mics, stands, cables, the cage and dampening itself, not to mention the drums cymbals and hardware, Edrums will be either the same price or cheaper.
We have gone down the hybrid pathway - drum triggers with real cymbals. We weren’t happy with digital cymbals, or how digital kits looked, so this worked for us. We’ve gone for dark sounding good quality cymbals with nice tone, and we still have the panels in place to curb volume a little. The results are good, the congregation can’t tell the difference now (including visiting musicians, our drummers and sound team worked really hard on the sounds!), we still have to mix up to the cymbals but thats are nowhere near as loud as a live kit. All the instruments are running direct and the whole team is on in-ears. Basically a silent stage. Initially it was a learning curve but we got there together, and we have great tone across the whole team now, no competing. It doesn’t really matter which way a worship team goes about solving the problem of drum volume management for their particular room, as long as the money and time spent solves the problem by fully embracing the laws of physics first!
The size and maker of the cymbals is also important. Smaller cymbals will destroy mixes in small rooms. I have found that larger cymbals are great for worship teams. Larger cymbals also produce a larger sound which reduces the requirement to hit the cymbal as hard to achieve good sound. And of course the cheaper the cymbal the more you’re going to notice it in the mix. Just like the quality of mics and heads is important so is the quality of your cymbals.
My personal preference is a hierarchy in volume, we played in a small church, our drummer before was a hard hitter, and playing at about 100 db, we learn how to control our instruments drums and voice, our lead singer at 80 db, backups 75bd, bass, guitars keys at 70db, snares toms and cymbals at 60db, kick at 75db, no bleed from overhead mics and vocal mics, we use 2 lapel also. Lets say a normal conversation of 2 people at a distance of 2 meters is about 45 db. If our drummer could not hear the unplugged acoustic guitar then we are too loud. Our stage volume is set lower than the PA system. We are not the best band and we dont have expensive equipment, but we can hear all instruments in our live stream and hearing the congregation while in live worship. Hope every team listens to each other and had a deep knowledge about hearing threshold.
Jake! Thank you for posting this video. It was great meeting your team and hearing your story. I love why you are building these video resources for the church.
Shy baffles or drum baffles are an excellent tool, just gotta pick them for the right job. As mentioned, these don’t replace a full enclosure in a smaller church. If your kit is backed up against an untreated wall, this isn’t gonna do what you want it to, it’ll reflect everything back off that wall that already has reflections. I’ve been to many churches that bought something similar thinking it does the same thing in reducing drum volume coming off stage, which they don’t. They limit direct interaction for higher frequencies only. These work excellent in larger spaces that are properly acoustically treated and have room above, behind, and beside the kit. There is a lot more to keep in mind though and cage or baffles is only a small piece to it. As mentioned drummer control and dynamics is huge. But also picking the right cymbals will go a long ways. I’m helping a church out right now with a smallish auditorium, real low ceilings, no acoustic treatment, and before I got there, they got rid of their enclosure, bought baffles, and bought real nice big thick and heavy Istanbul cymbals… I can mute the drum mix in the house and all I lose is the subs. I have to mix the entire band up to the live drum volume to get a balanced mix and I have very little control over the drums themselves. Do your research, talk to experts, pick what’s right for your space, and team, not just the newest latest greatest thing you saw bethel using.
I use shy baffles at my church. The difference is subtle but nice. If you're looking to tighten up an already good sound system use baffles, but if you're trying to fix a loud drum kit problem baffles will not solve the issue
In my personal experience of about 18 years playing drums in the church, I would have to say most of the issues with drums come from a misunderstanding of the instrument itself. Many churches would find drum enclosures nearly unnecessary if they knew the variables that create loud drums. Cymbal weight, thickness, diameter, and treatment are all directly related to the amplitude of the cymbal. But as a rule of thumb, the thicker, heavier, larger and less treated a cymbal is, the larger and harder to control it becomes. If I was recommending cymbals for a church for the least amount of output possible by a traditionally treated group of cymbals, it'd be: Diril 14 Primitive Hi Hats (Between 700 and 800 grams for the bottom and top) Istanbul Agop Xist Dry Dark Crash 20" Istanbul Agop Xist Dry Dark Crash 17" Zildjian Special Dry Ride 23" The loudness of drums is also directly related a large amount of variables, but these can be reduced to three fundamental and easily controllable parameters: Tuning pitch, diameter and material. Just like cymbals, the larger the diameter, the louder a drum's potential amplitude. Unlike cymbals, drums can be tuned. Also, they can be made out of less dense materials like wood that absorb a larger amount of the skin's vibration. Higher pitches are percieved as louder be the human ear. Lower pitches are percieved as quieter. Because of the nature of the tuning process wherein tension is mainly place on the outside portions of the skin, the thinner the contact point and shell of a drum, the louder it's potential, whereas the thicker the contact point and shell, the less potential, PROVIDED we are working with a wooden shell. If I were to recommend a shell pack, I would recommend a Sonor AQX Jazz kit. (10, 13 snare, 14, 18, bass drum). Smaller sizes cut down on stage volume and allow more control over the overall mix. A little digression: B20 Bronze- which is generally what all quality cymbals are made of, with various proprietary alloys introduced by manufacturers- was specifically invented and designed for the creation of good old fashioned, hearing destroying church bells and hand cymbals. No wander we're having such a hard time controlling them. Also a little sidenote: If you've ever been to a church with a full sized organ installed and a brass band playing, you begin to realize just how loud music before electric amplification actually was. Older generations had louder acoustic instruments in the church than most churches will ever have today! But I digress.
We use the same thing from a different company here in the PH and as a guitarist, I love this. We also have the absorption panels behind and a couple of foams above.
Hey Jake I love your content, but this was a bunch of miss information to sell a product. I stopped when he said in an enclosure the sound waves are going to bounce around and open gates uncontrollably? and you only need 1-2 mics? WHAT? the natural sound of drums already do that in or out an enclosure. the true problem with most churches is controlling the signal to noise ratio, which just means stage noise being louder than the PA for a live sound engineer. You do not want to be at the mercy of your drummer playing "soft" to get a good balance in the room. YOU CAN NEVER GO WRONG putting drums in an enclosure. only WHEN you can push the PA louder than the stage noise this won't matter, then yes baffles are a good solutions for IEMS or broadcast. This guy is making huge claims that was extremely misleading and overboard the top to sell this product.
There are far too many people in this industry trying to sell solutions to churches for problems that don't exist. Consider that every day bands with drummers that play harder are doing so in much smaller venues, closer together, without shields or cages, and nobody complains about mic bleed. It's live music, not a studio recording. Not to mention, MOST of the drums I've heard in cages sound like you'd expect a drum set in a closet to sound...like absolute garbage. Drummers need to play with control and with dynamics. Period. That's how you get them out of the cage.
I mean, you are not wrong, but the reality seems to disagree with you. It's hard for me to think of a local church with contemporary worship without drum cage. Okay, there is one, the sound sucks horribly and sound guy has to push the FoH very loud to overcome drums, which makes it worse.
@@aleksandergrzybowski8899 that drummer needs to pull down his volume. It is hard. It may be one of the more difficult things to achieve in drumming, but it can be done, and it's one of those things that anyone can do if they'll put in the time.
I agree but as a drummer who is extremely cognizant of dynamics, there are times where the extra noise is uncontrolled. For instance, if I do a cymbal swell (trash can if what we call it) at 30% volume at the end of a song, the vocal mics will boost the level like crazy to the point it’s annoyingly noticeable. Idk if it’s because churches now boost vocal mics more than usual or the amount of vocal mics present on stage at a given time…idk? Just my thoughts.
@@millardjcurtis9123 I think the gain on worship band vocal mics is probably a big problem. Lots of volunteer (and other) singers can't project and won't get up on a mic like they should. So FOH cranks the gain... Solution? Put the drummer in a box? I guess when you can't fix the actual problem. I think another problem is ears that don't know what live music sounds like. Some people have only heard music come out of a speaker, and anything other than that sounds weird to them. That's kind of sad, honestly.
I'll simplify it for anyone looking at purchasing these: these are not to bring dBs down. These are to reduce high end bleed into vocal mics. They CAN cut down a LITTLE on SOME volume, but I wouldn't bank on it. Tell your drummer to be a pro and play to the room. Invest in larger, washier, darker cymbals (stay away from A Customs) and teach drummers to hit the snare with more force in the middle of the head rather than hitting a rim shot EVERY snare hit. Tilt the cymbals toward the drummer so they hit the bow of it rather than chop into the edge.
I love your content but this guy (not you) is definitely stating inaccurate information. I would reconsider keeping this video because it doesn't represent you or your brand very well.
I don't get this whole "enclosures" / "baffles" thing. Use rods. Learn to play quietly. I play in loud bands and quiet bands - I adjust my playing to the type of music AND the venue - size, acoustics, audience etc. Never needed to be enclosed. What's the prob?
E drums are a much better solution. By the time you factor in all those mics, stands, clips, cables, baffles, hardware, drums, why not just get quality Edrums where you have actual control over the volume?
We tried plexiglass panels; they did not make a difference at all. We have a drum room acoustically treated. We mic with a Yamaha EAD 10 and 2 overheads. FOH and in-ear mixes are just great.
I would just say this and you can take it or leave it. I’ve heard the TC3 live stream. It’s enjoyable to me, no doubt. I would say with baffles that large and in that quantity and with that kit basically 10ft away from a bare wall, that drummer is basically inside a cage in terms of sound reflections.
Wouldn't it be better to play quieter and design acoustic absorption solutions tailored for that purpose? Besides that, the main thing I think is about placement of the musicians and the microphones. A small room, a loud instrument and a drummer who plays as loud as possible. There's no way to make that equation work...
This was a great sales pitch! Love the tech tours, but this was a bit sketchy on some things. Drums are different for every room. There is no one size fits all solution but you can’t change physics because you might have found a niche in the market.
Looks like a cool product but why wasn't there a drummer there to give a demonstration? Or stems included to hear the difference from one kit to another. If you're promoting something on video I think its better to go beyond what I could simply read on your website.
Well it's great if you have a big ass stage, but in Germany churches tend to be quite small, mostly around 100 people so the room is also really small... Drums are simply just too loud and there's also no money for buying a cage... It really sucks!😬
"Aye dude we're going to make this awesome video about our cymbal shield... plot twist... we're not going to actually demonstrate how they effect the sound of the drums because you're not going to play anything..."
Rule #1 for all churches, if your auditorium seats 1000 or less, keep the drums in a full enclosure with a lid. From a person who has attended church my entire life and have mixed for about 12.
It’s a no from me dawg. So much doesn’t make sense about this. Snare cuts way more than any cymbals. I’m a drummer and FOH Eng and prefer to not play behind a screen, however I do because the room calls for it. This does little for the congregation and more for those on stage that don’t want cymbal bleed in their ears (which shouldn’t be there if you are running decent IEM and have correct gain staging and gates on your vocal mics). This is a decent touring solution if you want to mask the side of the kit form BVGs instead of a screen. Also, the way those cymbal stands are setup makes me cringe. Gosh. A drummer did not set this up. Lol. Ask your drummer for a solution if they are playing too loud- do not put a dampener on my cymbals, haha.. it’s Probably cheaper to Invest in the best cymbals available with lower tone and less shrill. K’s are great. Church front is legit. This is not a viable solution instead of a cage in my opinion. It’s a different solution, not the same result.
I’m so tired of content like this. The guy seems great, but the information being presented just doesn’t align with acoustical principles. Start with acoustics always, pick the right kit for your room, absolutely pick the right cymbals for your room, and build relationships with your drummers
Not sure which hip church started this trend but it’s got to stop. These baffles don’t do jack. put the drums in an enclosure if you want to contain them…
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There's a lot of misinformation here. I watch your videos all the time Jake and I enjoy your content, but I feel the need to counter some of this guys claims to avoid volunteer church audio guys being misled.
"In an enclosure, the band members can't feel the kick". You don't feel the kick from the natural energy of the kick drum. You can hear it being hit, but it doesn't naturally emanate 50hz sound waves at 95db. Subwoofers do that. An enclosure doesn't prevent this.
"Putting a sub on stage defeated the purpose of an enclosure for us". A subwoofer on stage with the kick, toms, and bass guitar coming through it is nowhere near the same as reproducing an entire unenclosed drum set. The purpose of the enclosure is to reduce the entire volume of the drums so that they can be controlled by the audio engineer.
"One drum mic picks up everything (in an enclosure)". This is the case on an unenclosed drum set as well. It's the nature of drums, they're all loud regardless of whether they're in an enclosure or not.
"You only need one or two mics in an enclosure". This is 100% not true. Yeah you get reflections in an enclosure but this is being dramatically overstated.
"Your mix sounds better because you can have targeted mic placement outside of an enclosure" This is the one that made me stop and write this. It's a blatent lie for two reasons. 1. When you mic up your individual drums in an enclosure it's not difficult to achieve isolated sounds. Again, there is some reflection but the amount of hyperbole he's using is off the charts. 2. If you're talking about bleed, your mix will sound undoubtedly sound WORSE without an enclosure because it's impossible to isolate everything. Your drums are now bleeding into everything on the stage.
"Your tom gates won't be going crazy outside an enclosure" I disagree, they'll still act relatively the same. Tom gates are difficult to dial in because the cymbals are right next to the tom mics. The sound waves that are guilty of falsely triggering the tom gates are coming directly from the cymbals 6" away. Not the waves that have bounced off the plexiglass and come back into the tom mic. Yes the toms are the most difficult to gate but if you sidechain the gates to triggers you'll be in good shape. I would do this no matter what the setup was. This is not relevant to being in/out of an enclosure.
He says "The drummer should play like there's nothing in front of them" but then a few seconds later says "Don't have a heavy hand, play controlled, and don't kill the crash". These are opposing philosophies! You can't have both. If you want the drummer to have the freedom to play however they want, it's going to be loud sometimes. He's essentially saying that drummers should play quieter...which is why we're in this predicament to begin with! If your product works, why are you asking the drummer to play quieter?
Bethel, a church renowned for their live and recorded sound, uses 8 inches of soundproofing on all sides of the stage... AND a full drum cage.
Great post. Just want to add, it appears they have these baffles in front of a set that is just a few feet in front of a drywall-faced wall, which is just going to reflect everything out again.
I honestly see a lot of misinformation on this channel. It’s become a recurring theme here. I don’t think he does it on purpose, but it does keep on happening.
Very good response here. As a musician who is trying to learn live sound I appreciate points and counterpoints for information.
Appreciate the info.
Drum Baffles do two things.
#1 - Start conversations over lunch amongst your congregation about whether they work or not
#2 - That's all they do.
😂😂😂
You should do a vocal mic test to see how much they really help
Yeah please do this test. It looks very cool, I hope it also works well.
We made our own set of these for a massive discount. We've used them for over a year, and it's been awful.
Our room isn't that small, and our treatment is slim to none, but, we went from 5 tall panels, open back, no roof... to 4 of these types of baffles.
We aren't quite sure what is worse, but these were not the answer.
We have now designed a drum cage, room, whatever you want to call it. It's costing nearly £1000, but we''ve visited other churchs who use cages, and there are only benifits to them.
Yes, you need more mics, but most churches have them already. Also, if you're spending money on a drum cage, balance in the cost of mics.
Unless you have a very large stage, this product will not work. You will have to bring your FOH up to the drum level, and you will fight drum bleed in vocal mics.
Save the money, build a cage.
I know there are many other factors, but I've kept my comment as short as possible.
We also have the same issue. There is a lot of bleed from the cymbals into the vocal mics even with the drum platform that is elevated on the second level of the stage with the vocals on the first.
Couldn't agree more. These are a great idea to sell but reduce sound about as much as a popsicle stick
Agreed. We use a drum shield and throw acoustic baffles on top. Not enough and have to mix to drum level. Will be building a full cage soon
If it really is that big of an issue why don't you just use Edrums instead? You get all the benefits with the (in my opinion) absurd and ridiculous look. By the time you factor in mics, stands, cables, the cage and dampening itself, not to mention the drums cymbals and hardware, Edrums will be either the same price or cheaper.
We have gone down the hybrid pathway - drum triggers with real cymbals. We weren’t happy with digital cymbals, or how digital kits looked, so this worked for us.
We’ve gone for dark sounding good quality cymbals with nice tone, and we still have the panels in place to curb volume a little.
The results are good, the congregation can’t tell the difference now (including visiting musicians, our drummers and sound team worked really hard on the sounds!), we still have to mix up to the cymbals but thats are nowhere near as loud as a live kit.
All the instruments are running direct and the whole team is on in-ears. Basically a silent stage.
Initially it was a learning curve but we got there together, and we have great tone across the whole team now, no competing.
It doesn’t really matter which way a worship team goes about solving the problem of drum volume management for their particular room, as long as the money and time spent solves the problem by fully embracing the laws of physics first!
Dude y’all never put the links down below, stop saying it lol😂
Check us out at Drumbaffles.com
Click on the down arrow to the right of the video title name and you will see all the links...on all of their videos😉
Lol
Churchfront is a scammer lmao.
It’s the first link in the description
The size and maker of the cymbals is also important. Smaller cymbals will destroy mixes in small rooms. I have found that larger cymbals are great for worship teams. Larger cymbals also produce a larger sound which reduces the requirement to hit the cymbal as hard to achieve good sound. And of course the cheaper the cymbal the more you’re going to notice it in the mix. Just like the quality of mics and heads is important so is the quality of your cymbals.
Can you release a video of the kit being played so we can hear the difference with and without the baffles? Appreciate the content!
My personal preference is a hierarchy in volume, we played in a small church, our drummer before was a hard hitter, and playing at about 100 db, we learn how to control our instruments drums and voice, our lead singer at 80 db, backups 75bd, bass, guitars keys at 70db, snares toms and cymbals at 60db, kick at 75db, no bleed from overhead mics and vocal mics, we use 2 lapel also. Lets say a normal conversation of 2 people at a distance of 2 meters is about 45 db. If our drummer could not hear the unplugged acoustic guitar then we are too loud. Our stage volume is set lower than the PA system. We are not the best band and we dont have expensive equipment, but we can hear all instruments in our live stream and hearing the congregation while in live worship. Hope every team listens to each other and had a deep knowledge about hearing threshold.
God bless you for stopping by with this comment, and may your entire family prosper in every aspect
Jake! Thank you for posting this video. It was great meeting your team and hearing your story. I love why you are building these video resources for the church.
Shy baffles or drum baffles are an excellent tool, just gotta pick them for the right job. As mentioned, these don’t replace a full enclosure in a smaller church. If your kit is backed up against an untreated wall, this isn’t gonna do what you want it to, it’ll reflect everything back off that wall that already has reflections.
I’ve been to many churches that bought something similar thinking it does the same thing in reducing drum volume coming off stage, which they don’t. They limit direct interaction for higher frequencies only. These work excellent in larger spaces that are properly acoustically treated and have room above, behind, and beside the kit.
There is a lot more to keep in mind though and cage or baffles is only a small piece to it. As mentioned drummer control and dynamics is huge. But also picking the right cymbals will go a long ways. I’m helping a church out right now with a smallish auditorium, real low ceilings, no acoustic treatment, and before I got there, they got rid of their enclosure, bought baffles, and bought real nice big thick and heavy Istanbul cymbals… I can mute the drum mix in the house and all I lose is the subs. I have to mix the entire band up to the live drum volume to get a balanced mix and I have very little control over the drums themselves.
Do your research, talk to experts, pick what’s right for your space, and team, not just the newest latest greatest thing you saw bethel using.
Thanks for this video! Very helpful on what these were designed for! Thinking about getting some of these
Thanks for sharing this with us. I don’t like putting drummers in a booth. I’m a bassist and need the kick closer.
Awesome! Thanks, guys!!
I use shy baffles at my church. The difference is subtle but nice. If you're looking to tighten up an already good sound system use baffles, but if you're trying to fix a loud drum kit problem baffles will not solve the issue
Any chance you have some audio examples of with and without?
Try this: ruclips.net/video/cX3h9ui7034/видео.html
We use them and they really help with Mic bleed tremendously!
No More Drumquariums?
In my personal experience of about 18 years playing drums in the church, I would have to say most of the issues with drums come from a misunderstanding of the instrument itself. Many churches would find drum enclosures nearly unnecessary if they knew the variables that create loud drums.
Cymbal weight, thickness, diameter, and treatment are all directly related to the amplitude of the cymbal. But as a rule of thumb, the thicker, heavier, larger and less treated a cymbal is, the larger and harder to control it becomes. If I was recommending cymbals for a church for the least amount of output possible by a traditionally treated group of cymbals, it'd be:
Diril 14 Primitive Hi Hats (Between 700 and 800 grams for the bottom and top)
Istanbul Agop Xist Dry Dark Crash 20"
Istanbul Agop Xist Dry Dark Crash 17"
Zildjian Special Dry Ride 23"
The loudness of drums is also directly related a large amount of variables, but these can be reduced to three fundamental and easily controllable parameters: Tuning pitch, diameter and material. Just like cymbals, the larger the diameter, the louder a drum's potential amplitude. Unlike cymbals, drums can be tuned. Also, they can be made out of less dense materials like wood that absorb a larger amount of the skin's vibration. Higher pitches are percieved as louder be the human ear. Lower pitches are percieved as quieter. Because of the nature of the tuning process wherein tension is mainly place on the outside portions of the skin, the thinner the contact point and shell of a drum, the louder it's potential, whereas the thicker the contact point and shell, the less potential, PROVIDED we are working with a wooden shell. If I were to recommend a shell pack, I would recommend a Sonor AQX Jazz kit. (10, 13 snare, 14, 18, bass drum). Smaller sizes cut down on stage volume and allow more control over the overall mix.
A little digression: B20 Bronze- which is generally what all quality cymbals are made of, with various proprietary alloys introduced by manufacturers- was specifically invented and designed for the creation of good old fashioned, hearing destroying church bells and hand cymbals. No wander we're having such a hard time controlling them. Also a little sidenote: If you've ever been to a church with a full sized organ installed and a brass band playing, you begin to realize just how loud music before electric amplification actually was. Older generations had louder acoustic instruments in the church than most churches will ever have today!
But I digress.
They look like the setup from a 1960’s variety show. Give me a booth any day.
I wish I could consult with these companies.
Drop us a line!
We use the same thing from a different company here in the PH and as a guitarist, I love this. We also have the absorption panels behind and a couple of foams above.
I’m from the ph. What brand do you use?
@@YsabelSywe had ours custom from a fiber glass shop. We wanted a certain size for it
Hey Jake I love your content, but this was a bunch of miss information to sell a product.
I stopped when he said in an enclosure the sound waves are going to bounce around and open gates uncontrollably? and you only need 1-2 mics? WHAT?
the natural sound of drums already do that in or out an enclosure.
the true problem with most churches is controlling the signal to noise ratio, which just means stage noise being louder than the PA for a live sound engineer. You do not want to be at the mercy of your drummer playing "soft" to get a good balance in the room. YOU CAN NEVER GO WRONG putting drums in an enclosure. only WHEN you can push the PA louder than the stage noise this won't matter, then yes baffles are a good solutions for IEMS or broadcast.
This guy is making huge claims that was extremely misleading and overboard the top to sell this product.
We use baffles/shields at church and yet we still experience more than enough cymbal bleed into the vocal mics 🤷🏽♂️
Yes, link please
There are far too many people in this industry trying to sell solutions to churches for problems that don't exist. Consider that every day bands with drummers that play harder are doing so in much smaller venues, closer together, without shields or cages, and nobody complains about mic bleed. It's live music, not a studio recording. Not to mention, MOST of the drums I've heard in cages sound like you'd expect a drum set in a closet to sound...like absolute garbage.
Drummers need to play with control and with dynamics. Period. That's how you get them out of the cage.
I mean, you are not wrong, but the reality seems to disagree with you. It's hard for me to think of a local church with contemporary worship without drum cage. Okay, there is one, the sound sucks horribly and sound guy has to push the FoH very loud to overcome drums, which makes it worse.
@@aleksandergrzybowski8899 that drummer needs to pull down his volume. It is hard. It may be one of the more difficult things to achieve in drumming, but it can be done, and it's one of those things that anyone can do if they'll put in the time.
I agree but as a drummer who is extremely cognizant of dynamics, there are times where the extra noise is uncontrolled. For instance, if I do a cymbal swell (trash can if what we call it) at 30% volume at the end of a song, the vocal mics will boost the level like crazy to the point it’s annoyingly noticeable. Idk if it’s because churches now boost vocal mics more than usual or the amount of vocal mics present on stage at a given time…idk? Just my thoughts.
@@aleksandergrzybowski8899 come to my church.
@@millardjcurtis9123 I think the gain on worship band vocal mics is probably a big problem. Lots of volunteer (and other) singers can't project and won't get up on a mic like they should. So FOH cranks the gain... Solution? Put the drummer in a box? I guess when you can't fix the actual problem.
I think another problem is ears that don't know what live music sounds like. Some people have only heard music come out of a speaker, and anything other than that sounds weird to them. That's kind of sad, honestly.
Shipping to indonesia bro?
I'll simplify it for anyone looking at purchasing these: these are not to bring dBs down. These are to reduce high end bleed into vocal mics. They CAN cut down a LITTLE on SOME volume, but I wouldn't bank on it. Tell your drummer to be a pro and play to the room. Invest in larger, washier, darker cymbals (stay away from A Customs) and teach drummers to hit the snare with more force in the middle of the head rather than hitting a rim shot EVERY snare hit. Tilt the cymbals toward the drummer so they hit the bow of it rather than chop into the edge.
I love your content but this guy (not you) is definitely stating inaccurate information. I would reconsider keeping this video because it doesn't represent you or your brand very well.
He doesn’t even seem confident in the product he’s talking about smh
You need something above the drums with down feathers and on the right side of the kit like a wall
Wow I’ve been looking for this, finally found the name
I don't get this whole "enclosures" / "baffles" thing.
Use rods.
Learn to play quietly.
I play in loud bands and quiet bands - I adjust my playing to the type of music AND the venue - size, acoustics, audience etc.
Never needed to be enclosed.
What's the prob?
E drums are a much better solution. By the time you factor in all those mics, stands, clips, cables, baffles, hardware, drums, why not just get quality Edrums where you have actual control over the volume?
Exactly my conclusion. I'd love to hear acoustic drums untamed, but I think electric just makes more practical and financial sense.
did they show any demonstration of the effects?
Try this: ruclips.net/video/cX3h9ui7034/видео.html
that sound track at the beginning is dope
The commotion in this comment section is so hilarious 😂😂😂.
We tried plexiglass panels; they did not make a difference at all. We have a drum room acoustically treated. We mic with a Yamaha EAD 10 and 2 overheads. FOH and in-ear mixes are just great.
do I spy Jordan Hardison??!!!
I think a controlled drummer can probably save you on all of this.
I would just say this and you can take it or leave it. I’ve heard the TC3 live stream. It’s enjoyable to me, no doubt. I would say with baffles that large and in that quantity and with that kit basically 10ft away from a bare wall, that drummer is basically inside a cage in terms of sound reflections.
Wouldn't it be better to play quieter and design acoustic absorption solutions tailored for that purpose? Besides that, the main thing I think is about placement of the musicians and the microphones.
A small room, a loud instrument and a drummer who plays as loud as possible. There's no way to make that equation work...
The main problem is drummers that play in church like they are at a rock concert.
What would’ve been good is a demo of an enclosed drum vs this baffled drum set. With mics, without mics and just the camera mic, I’m just saying.
They might have decided not to publish the video lol
This was a great sales pitch! Love the tech tours, but this was a bit sketchy on some things.
Drums are different for every room. There is no one size fits all solution but you can’t change physics because you might have found a niche in the market.
Looks like a cool product but why wasn't there a drummer there to give a demonstration? Or stems included to hear the difference from one kit to another. If you're promoting something on video I think its better to go beyond what I could simply read on your website.
Try this: ruclips.net/video/cX3h9ui7034/видео.html
Why “worship?”
Would have been nice to hear the difference they make instead of a 12 minute sales pitch
Try this: ruclips.net/video/cX3h9ui7034/видео.html
Sooo baffle are for symbols only... aaah good to know
Well it's great if you have a big ass stage, but in Germany churches tend to be quite small, mostly around 100 people so the room is also really small... Drums are simply just too loud and there's also no money for buying a cage... It really sucks!😬
"Aye dude we're going to make this awesome video about our cymbal shield... plot twist... we're not going to actually demonstrate how they effect the sound of the drums because you're not going to play anything..."
Rule #1 for all churches, if your auditorium seats 1000 or less, keep the drums in a full enclosure with a lid. From a person who has attended church my entire life and have mixed for about 12.
Please do research before posting these videos. I keep on seeing wrong information on these. It’s becoming a recurring theme.
It’s a no from me dawg.
So much doesn’t make sense about this. Snare cuts way more than any cymbals. I’m a drummer and FOH Eng and prefer to not play behind a screen, however I do because the room calls for it.
This does little for the congregation and more for those on stage that don’t want cymbal bleed in their ears (which shouldn’t be there if you are running decent IEM and have correct gain staging and gates on your vocal mics). This is a decent touring solution if you want to mask the side of the kit form BVGs instead of a screen. Also, the way those cymbal stands are setup makes me cringe. Gosh. A drummer did not set this up. Lol.
Ask your drummer for a solution if they are playing too loud- do not put a dampener on my cymbals, haha.. it’s Probably cheaper to Invest in the best cymbals available with lower tone and less shrill. K’s are great.
Church front is legit. This is not a viable solution instead of a cage in my opinion. It’s a different solution, not the same result.
They look nifty
He said a “descent size room” oooook
I’m so tired of content like this. The guy seems great, but the information being presented just doesn’t align with acoustical principles. Start with acoustics always, pick the right kit for your room, absolutely pick the right cymbals for your room, and build relationships with your drummers
No hate here but we made 3 for under $100… find some thick plexi and a cutter!
um
Wow! And I don’t mean it in the good way…
The snare is DEFINITELY a nuisance.
Not sure which hip church started this trend but it’s got to stop.
These baffles don’t do jack. put the drums in an enclosure if you want to contain them…
Controlled drummer 😅
Those kids don't even know what it means
Scam.. Buy a drum cage instead. Don't waste your money
Or just go digital drums and eliminate all the stage noise issues...
Gross lol. I kid, I kid lol.