The Audio Workshop: How to PROPERLY use VOCAL RIDER
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- *UPDATE all you need to do now is to just Send all your music to the music SC bus (Mute that bus because itll echo) and then just simply slap a vocal rider on the targeted vocal track and then use the key insert to side chain the Music SC easy clap, no need for two vocal riders. ***
Here I show you how to Properly use Waves Vocal Rider.. most people just set it up as an insert and only use the plug in to HALF It's potential.
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**UPDATE all you need to do now is to just Send all your music to the music SC bus (Mute that bus because itll echo) and then just simply slap a vocal rider on the targeted vocal track and then use the key insert to side chain the Music SC* easy clap, no need for two vocal riders. ***
How do I do this in FL?
NOT WORKING FOR ME
Could you do a update tutorial?
I dont have this key on plugin..?
and just slapping it on does it..? or you have to write and record it to be fully functional as supposed..?
actual video tutorial starts at 6:48 thank me later
alvinraydj3 thanks fam
Thank you
LMAO
Thanks.
I know there would be one of you here, you're a good man.
i have been using vocal rider for years. this guy just added a lot of extra steps that arent needed. if you mix, you already have bus tracks setup for your drums, gtr, hh, and all that. then you would have a summed buss of all the music. once you have that summed buss, just create a send on that summed buss for the s/c on the vocal rider. place the vocal rider directly on your vocal track last in the chain. each vocal track will be different so each vocal rider setting should be different.
OK....here's a question. The summed buss is stereo, sending it to VR on that track is to be mono. I don't get it. Does it make a difference instead of sending mono tracks directly to the Lead Vocal vocal rider?
it does not make a difference.
Sure makes sense now that I thought about your process. I sure do have bus stems on all instruments. Just sending them to the VR side chain...Bammmm, done. Thanks for the help.
Makes total sense, yeah. Thanks.
you're a hero :D
For anyone using Ableton, the sidechain option is not on the Vocal rider window, it's on the ableton box at the bottom left of screen where plugins sit.
Took me awhile to notice that
Omg thank you! I wouldn’t have known that
Vocal rider = Time saver...PERIOD...great video....i just used your technique on my latest track
Hey man, I don't use pro tools.....I'm using reaper, so I don't have the key insert, do you know how I can do what you have done in pro tools, but in reaper.?
Thanks.
Not sure. I haven’t really used reaper
This thing is a monster! I use 2 in series like compression. Try that out. Talk about total control.
make a vid!!!
You might want to read the vocal rider manual, then re-do some sections of this video...
What is the name of the artist and the music? Amazing tutorial. Thanks! Best
What a great song to demonstrate this Plugin with. Great arrangement, performance and a dynamite mix. Would like to know how this song was mixed and if compression was used on all instrument tracks because everything is really shining through. If a DAW doesn't have a side chain, is there a work around using the buses or maybe using Vocal Rider on a separate bus in the same way as you would apply parallel compression on drums? I can create as many buses as I need in my DAW though. Thanks and any tips would be really appreciated by all. A quick tip of my own regarding compression -- if you like to use stacked compression, say twice on vocals, then set your second instance of it in the reverse mirror image of the first! That way you will catch both the onset transient, as well as the tailout!
Maybe you should have used Vocal Rider on your voiceover track lol
🤣🤣
This video just made Vocal Rider even better! It rides so freakin' well this way!
IT was the original purpose!
Do you know how to make the sidechain work in FL studio, i sidechain it to my instrument mix bus but .. it does not detect the music and does not allow me to change the knob on the music sensitivity
righttttt
i have same exact problem
Are you adjusting your send levels?
Excellent tutorial video 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Thank you, will definitely try this. 🎶🎶🎶👍🏼👌🏼
would this work if I was using a 2 track ?
My plugin doesn't have the key so can't sidechain. Using Ableton 8 / mac
If somebody wants to do this on FL STUDIO, contact me! You will thank me later!
“Let’s talk about something called vocals” Really? What are they? “Something called” is not required. Let’s talk about Vocals! Surely everyone knows what they are. Unless your Donald Trump, then saying “let’s talk bout something called vocals” with Trump, implies I just heard about them or “not many people know about something called vocals” once again he just found out. Sorry….I’m just nit picking, your video sounds awesome!
Hi thanks for the video. Question. Why do you open another aux channel just for the lead vocal rider as opposed to just using the actual channel where the vocal is to begin with? You could still route all the instrumental to the side chain that way and it would ride the volume on the channel where the vocal is. I don’t understand why you did that. What am I missing here?
Your not missing anything that was driving me nuts and he finally said you can do that.
I think its best to create a dedicated bus just for sc to VR. The bus can then have just the tracks required to trigger VR.
For example you may not want kick and snare spikes constantly triggering the VR.
Also Im not sure how good the VR is at catching real fast transients on voice,, i have not deeply tested it yet,, but to be safe you can set the compressor before VR to control these.
What a beautiful song and voice! And you sir did a wonderful job so far with it's sound! Thank you for this totally useful tutorial! God bless you man!
You must not have read the manual because it clearly say use it last in the chain.
Depends on what you want it to control.
doesnt work with reaper? won't detect any sidechain 'key' , i believe. help!! thanks.
what recording chain you are using ?
I am little skeptic about it it doesn't sound natural to me. Up and down or down and up it sounds little unnatural to me.
What's the song? Who's the artist?
Is it somehow possible to do this in Ableton?
Dont forget to volume match all your sends. "Alt + ctrl + H" after selecting the sending tracks.
Hello! Thank you so much for posting this. I have the plugin and I've was using it incorrectly by just putting it on the vocal track. It does help a lot that way but your way is MUCH better. A quick question for you... How come you setup the track in Mono instead of Stereo? Can't you just make it a stereo track? Many thanks!
Todd
If you look closely he does have one VR on the lead vocal directly too
Are all the vocals on 1 track? For example double and harmonies et?
Might be worth mentioning that you're effectively parallel processing the lead vocals here, by sending post-fader to the "Lead VR" buss as well as to "MIXBUSS" from the initial channel. That is, unless I've missed something here haha!
Looks like I'll need to take a look at this plugin soon; could be a real time saver! :)
+Ben Davies Music definitely take a look man!
why does this trick makes my mix buss right channel so loud its clipping????
HI THERE MASON. EDDIE IN THE UK HERE.
THANKS FOR SUCH A GREAT VIDEO - REALLY HELPFUL BUT.........................
I'VE TRIED THIS BUT WHATEVER TYPE OF AUX CHANNEL I CREATE AND SEND ALL THE MUSIC TO IT - IF I TURN THE FADER DOWN OR MUTE AS YOU SUGGEST THE MUSIC IS TURNED DOWN OR MUTED. I'M USING STUDIO ONE ARTIST 5.4 SO CAN YOU PLEASE TEL ME HOW TO ACHIEVE THIS IN MY DAW ? I HAVE 3 CHANNEL OPTIONS - BUS - AUX OR VCA. I'VE TRIED ALL 3 BUT IT DOES THE SAME ! HELP ! ! ! BEST REGARDS - EDDIE.
congrats on this tutorial! it really helped me understand certain aspects of the vocal rider use.
my question is: In case i wanna use both the Vocal rider technique you demonstrate as well as the Rear bus technique (aka Parallel Compression on the whole mix, watch?v=R0l3XAli6Zg) , how is it possible for them to be combined?
Do you have to bounce the song down in real time so that it plays out loud for the vocal rider to work? (I'm using logic pro) or can you bounce it down offline so that it goes faster, but the vocal rider will still work? also if I wanted to vocal ride multiple tracks at once how could I do that?
Outstanding tutorial....explained very well. Thank you..
Still haven't found anything that works better than parabolic compression.
Now I do agree that sidechaining the volume level against a soundtrack is a great way to level out the vocal audibility, although I would be pretty gentle with the settings when I do that
What song in this? Who is the artist and song name? Great song.
Hi Mason, thanks for the tutorial! I have a question. Why can't you send the music to a bus and simply SC that one bus with the VR instead of having the SC on every track except the vocals? Thanks again.
Well, where are you getting the music from? A stereo bus that has all of the music elements only?
With that in mind, you have to send ONLY the music elements that you want. You can even pick and choose which elements you want to send (BGVs for instance)
All these steps make sense and you can clearly see that Vocal Rider is "working", but the tutorial doesn't explain whether or not Vocal Rider is WRITING any of the riding it's doing to any of the tracks??? It's supposed to be writing automation right? Well, how do we know if it's writing at all? And does it write to the aux tracks we've created, or the original tracks we tracked the vocals on? And if it writes to the aux track... do we have to unmute it for the final mix of the song and mute the original tracks???? I feel like this part, which should have been the final step, is completely left out.
I’m still surprised this gets views lmao
Do you still have individual busses for your music and drums?
I watched this and just got totally confused I rewind start again then rewind google what is a side chain stop again google what is a bus lol it’s a long road for me
love u broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo i love u thxxxxxxxx
Can i use it on a bounced instrumental like stereo track? Or jus send every instrument stem to the vocal rider aux?
This is not the correct way to use Vocal Rider. Take this video down.
he didnt even cover writing the vocal riding to automation
I have a question, how do I do this in FL Studio? I know FL can sidechain, but I am not getting the same results as you got in your DAW.
right man
forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=166126
Wouuuuu! thank you so very much, I already have Vocal Rider, but have never consider to use it this way, thanks for sharing this advance way to use it more eficently!
Yeah you can also just slap it on as the final plug in on your chain and still run the side chain just without that second channel in paralel
Mason Dayot great Video Mason! You have a new subscriber!
Not clear on the advantage of doing side chain over lead vocal insert.
Whats the shortest way to use this plug in properly like u have in this video
Great info. I cant get totally clear on whether VR ALWAYS should be the last insert or whether it can give a relief on compressors pleaced after VR.
It depends if you want it to help control how hard the compressors have to work, or you can place it after to do fine tuning on the dynamics
Who is your vocalist. She is fantastic
Thanks bro!
I can’t get it to automate
4:50 you mixed tf out of that 🔥😭
Great video! Thanks!
The way he hits his consonant's jeeeez.
@11:14 sorry but shouldn't that output fader always stay at 0db? I didn't quite understand that part
Yeah you’re probably right. Sorry this video is rather old and a new more simple method is on the pinned comment!
@@MasonDayot I learned a lot by it none the less. Thanks!
also, so you keep vr on the actual track as well as the aux channel? so it's on both?
One to control the vocals, like a transparent compressor, then the other one is to ride the vocal on top of the music.
Did you use VR here both as Insert and on the SC?
I'm thinking placing a glue compressor set about 50%, just in before the vocal rider would help the Rider get is job done with less late or over-shot errors(?)
I tend to leave some drums, percussive and other spikey transients out of the side chain so that vocal rider is oblivious to them. I find you get better and more even results, especially if the transients are very prominent and occasional in the mix. Glorious voice by the way.
+Philfy Phil hmm good idea I should try it
Yep, for sure. Don't want snare drum spikes to cause the vocals to come up.
Anyone know the name of the song?
can´t access your website
so even if your Side Chain channel is muted the music still sends signal to the Vocal Rider channel?
Actually I forgot to update but I just ditch the extra channel and just slap the vocal as the final insert with a side chain to a hidden music side chain (muted) channel
hidden music side chain? what is that?
Well I must say I'm a bit disappointed with Waves here. The Vocal Rider is such a good idea, but the vocal level rising over a backing track through side-chained music-sensitivity just isn't happening here, even after hours of twiddling with it. I've got 30 years' recording experience and I'm a dab-hand with PT12. The green light glows when it hears something on the S/C, but then takes ages to fade out again afterwards. If I were riding the vocal and backing-track faders manually, I'd be reacting a lot faster than VR does after a louder passage, and that applies when using both the fast and slow attack setting. I've experimented with the 'idle' level, the 'target' level and the range limiters, but I cannot make a vocal recording increase in volume over a loud bit in the backing, and then subside a little when the music gets quieter. Anyone else found this function to be somewhat, er, non-functional?
Awesome program
Blew my mind! Thanks! Question: Could you explain again how to use the Output fader of the plugin? Why do you have is so low?
Great tutorial. Won't it be easier to just put Vocal Rider directly on the vocal track and still sidechain the music?
Until now, I've just been using it as a stand alone plugin to even out the vocal track. Gonna check out the sidechaining now. :-)
+Mikkel Tiedt Musik I actually do that now and can confirm it works
Of course it makes sense, if you have a mix of several vocal tracks you need to flow on top of the mix :-)
Thanks for a great video, with clear explanations. Much appreciated. And a great track, too!
When I set the vocal rider on the aux input, TARGET it is always full with yellow and the output appears on 104.0 and it does not work with that, I set the output on -12 but with the full TARGET, it just makes the voice sounds louder, nothing else... can u help me?
+TxExRxRxAxN hmm not sure, maybe someone else can help you on here!
excellent tutorial. I just got this plug in yesterday and see a lot of potential!
I can't get this to work properly, it's frustrating as hell. The initial attack of my loud parts are still quite loud and some of the quieter parts just don't seem to recover quickly enough for some lines...
What's the song
Long time ago but I think it’s called hope
Mason Dayot by who I need it
@@gazashariff1906 im not sure but It was part of a Dueling Mixes Program (offered by The Recording Revolution) and I'm not legally allowed to give those out without their consent. (Don't think I have them either). Either way it was just an indie artist I believe.
Sorry man!
@@MasonDayot giving out the title isnt against anything contractually
I wish waves would not use tiny green indicator lights on their plugins - myself - and many other male users - will have trouble making out the subtle changes - due to red/green color weakness combined with that small size of the indicator. Choose Blue/yellow - shades of grey - or make it larger.
To me it sounds like it takes too much of the dynamics out. For instance at 4:35 she is holding out the word "There" and the wave form shows a small crescendo that the Vocal Rider removes. I found myself wanting to hear that crescendo. Of course compression can do the same thing but it can also be set to allow the track to breathe as well. I'm not saying the plugin doesn't have value or anything. This is just an observation.
Thanks. I have not been having great success with this plug-in; now I know why.
Mate i love your tutorial big thanks
Awesome, thanks! Just bought Vocal Rider and this really helped my understand some aspects of the plugin.
I use the write automation function aswell, then if there is any problems you can still just do some small changes on your main vocal volume automation afterwards. Shouldn't be confused with compression though, 2 different things, compression changes the shape of the waveform due to attack/release/knee settings whereas rider just changes the volume. I tend to compress first then use the rider, then automate volume for sweeping dynamics ie big choruses. Works bloody brilliantly.
I agree, new at this VR. Question...once you automate the vocal track, do you bypass the Vocal rider and the sends to it? Commit the track to save CPU? Thanks
once its written the automation i usually just switch it over to read, you could remove the sends to it if you wanted as its not listening to them anymore its just following its own written automation. If youve set it up right the vocal should have a fairly even level throughout the song, sometimes too even so I then go in and either adjust its own automation curves or write a new one using the main track volume, ie re adding dynamics like quiet verses, louder choruses. I dont usually commit to track until im totally happy, from memory the rider is quite a low cpu consumer. The other day I tried it out on a overheads track that kept disappearing in loud parts of the song and it worked great, im sure Ill try it on other sources in the future, its a great tool.
Explained well, thanks for taking the time getting back with this response. I did do the commit after liking my end result. Now it all makes sense. Cheers
Cool video. So can it be used as am automatic volume slider for a full stereo mix also without having compression or limiting effects? And what if its used for music with a very low and very high volume changes? I'm talking about using it with a stereo after wave mix and no effecting a vocal track.
the vocal rider will turn down soft parts of my vocals because the wav form of those soft parts will be bigger than the loud parts. this shit never works for me
Hej new to this plugin. Side chain tip very good.
im so confused... how do i set it so my vocals don't go over 0.0 db?!? thats all i needa know, it's never perfect, and i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong. please get back to me!!!! :)
!
@@jakekavaler1590 if you just want your vocals to stay under 0.0 db you can simply use your daw's limiter (every daw comes with a limiter) and set it to 0.0 (-0.1 is the traditional default setting).
@@MichaelSandroBertl i don't necessarily want them to just stay under, but rather i want it to stay AT ~0.0 or -0.1 db, consistently. Will that do the same thing ?
@@jakekavaler1590 oh now i understand - that won't do the same thing, no. you can aim for this with the vocal rider or a compressor but i would really not recommend that because it will make your vocals sound extremely unnatural. doing this you'll lose dynamic completely (e.g. you will have to cut out every single breath as they will be on the same level as your words e.g.). but just try it, maybe you like it - in the end it's, as always, a matter of taste. ps: i'm not a vocal rider pro, so maybe just watch other tutorials - sometimes you find out stuff although the people don't exactly explain what you're looking for. there are also many, many tutorials on compression on youtube if you wanna try that (would be too long to go into detail here). cheers!
wouldn’t it be less cpu intensive if you just send the musical elements busses to the Music SC??
shame it doesn't work this way in Cubase, still can't get it to work
Great tutorial, thank you. I have two questions: 1. why do put fader of the VR to -12db? 2. would you use VR write option to record the automation, to, then, adjust it manually if needs be?
Love this. Gonna try it tonight
dis shit is soo confusing to me.. I tried and still cant get it
Just send all the music to a bus and mute that bus. And then put vocal rider on your target track (LV for example) and then side chain that music bus to the vocal rider and shazam
@@MasonDayot ummmmm ummmm lol I gave up lol
Thank you for the thorough explanation on using plugin
Excellent video. Thanks for posting!
+Tim Roberts my
Pleasure
Thanks.
Really helpful! Thank you!
Thanx, man! I bought Vocalrider 2 days ago and it is already a great help.
Thanx for laying out the sidechain thing, saves me a lot of Braingrease!
(is that a word in english?) 🧐great timing for me!😊
Thanks bro! this helped alot..#missing puzzle piece!
somehow i still didn´t get why you cant assign that MUSIC SC track to Rider thats on vocal track and Rider itself has to be on bus? and doubleing the Q already here, why mono? is´int there any audio going thru?
I suppose you could do that.. As long as you have the music SC active with music sent to it, and that it side chains to the rider then you're fine.
It's mono because the vocal is mono. Not a stereo track. But you can still do stereo if you want.. You're just trying to get a music signal in anyway..
This is just how I do it.
Hi a big question. I have a project and there is a vocal level problem. There several tracks and each track has different level problems- louder quieter. I tried this plugin and it works perfectly for each track but then the vocal level is different between the tracks. Is there some limiting option to bring / reduce everything up to 0db with some dynamic variations? This is death metal project so it gotta be all loud and legible. Cheers
That's where you have to do your initial balancing first with compression first. and then use Vocal Rider to rider the music rather than the vocal itself, if that makes sense.
I need you to show me where the outputs of these Side chains go, maybe even a template of of what you did in the video!
Why the little meter or beside the plug-in on the insert
i hate this genre of music so listening is hard personally