The Missing Piece in Toronto's Regional Rail System
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
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*WHY* can't metrolinx build cost effectively like Korea etc. (you mentioned it in the video but I'd love if you expanded here)
@ It's based in and controls the post-colonized area. Bad "drivers", "laws", companies, and governments prevail in these areas regardless. Germany, Japan, Netherlands, and Northern Europe aren't colonized at all and they're the best areas to live in and it's not just transportation & building care that makes these countries good, it's also healthcare, laws, safety, etc.
The first paragraph in this reply of mine should be false, but it's not.
I’m interested in hearing your take on the City of Brantford and surrounding towns recent open letter to the Minister of Transportation, on expanding Go Train service to Brantford. Brantford is also a “bedroom town” and has existing tracks owned by CN that link to Aldershot. Maybe a future video idea?
You keep saying costs will go up in the future, but, considering how much we’re overpaying for everything, getting those costs under control might actually make things cheaper in the future.🤔
An example of costs going down is with China’s metro standardization and with the engineers having more experience, costs decrease.
I'm not sure how you've determined that we're overpaying for "everything".
What does getting cost under control mean?
Labour costs and material costs are typically the biggest input in these projects and there's no indication that either will go down anytime soon.
Add to the fact that these areas are densifying. You can surely expect that complex project will lead to bigger price tags in the future
@@andrewthaboss6643 Simply comparing Canadian building prices to, say, French or Spanish ones shows you something is off.
@@fernbedek6302 you certainly can't look at the top line costs and understand what is going on, but i suppose the point i was making is that assuming costs will go down overtime is a very dangerous game
@@andrewthaboss6643 I’m not assuming they will, just saying it’s possible they could, if we can push for proper transparency and better fiscal approaches.
Has GO Transit just given up on picking an actual shade of green? :D
No! The new design is the multishade one, they just haven’t switched all the cars from the old “highway sign” shade haha!
They only repaint older cars in the new colour when they are scheduled to be repainted/refurbished anyways, thus adding 0 cost to the existing fleet program. There was backlash on the rebrand that it was a waste of money that could be spent elsewhere, so this was their compromise.
TechAltar on a RmTransit video? Awesome
@@blastbottles Hes a cool dude!
Wait, are you Canadian? :O
Isn't it kinda funny that I used to watch your channel in 2017-18 because I liked train footage, now in 2023-24 I'm watching urbanist content on a completely different YT account and I somehow end up with the same youtuber making completely different content which is aligned with my same new hobby. What are the coincidences? This is beautiful!
I agree, that is very cool :)
It’s hard to overstate how important the Go Transit Lakeshore East track separation was. It allowed for 20 minute service (that ended with the pandemic) which made travelling from the east end to downtown as easy as driving from Pickering to the Oshawa Centre. It’s was amazing how many people would go in to the city to “look around” because it was easy.
The 30 minute service that is currently in place is comparable and a good compromise
Also, I never really considered linking to the Junction. That whole Dundas West area would be well served with a line like that.
As always this was a great video to spark discussion
Thanks for watching! LSE was actually every 15 minutes pre covid!
@@RMTransit oh wow. Ya. It was 15 minutes. That’s wild to think about!
Speaking of the Midtown Line, I recently looked at it on Google maps. As far as I can tell, there's exactly one industry with a direct connection to the line between the junction of the Milton and Kitchener lines and CP's yard on the other side of the city. That industry is... the TTC, where they unload their streetcars from trains. Aside from that, the whole corridor is just a through route for CP. I'm sure something can be sorted out between the TTC and GO to make the midtown corridor useable
There are some east-west tracks running through Vaughan and Markham, would it be possible to relocate the streetcar trains there? It's been discussed in the past as part of a 'missing link' for freight trains that could bring two-way all-day service. If you keep going up the Kitchener Line corridor there is another junction at Weston that leads into the aforementioned east-west tracks. However, there is no spur for trains to turn into those tracks at all. Similarly with the east end, the tracks that head northeast from the CP yard do not spur into the 'missing link' line. Adding in those spurs would very likely cost several industrial buildings and maybe a golf course.
You'd hope so, I guess we will see!
I've wanted to have in/out service on the Milton line for years.... And now that they're trying to do it, I'm leaving! Problems I see are stations like Dixie which only has one platform vs Streetsville which has more than it actually needs. With the existing infrastructure, you can have 2 way service but not frequently. I am so very much going to miss this GTA. I'm going to hope that I can at least live near Oshawa Go
In a 6 billion dollar budget rebuilding a few stations is a non issue!
Torontonian who lived in Japan for a few years here. As a railway fan, everytime I was commuting on the rail network in Japan, I was always subconsciously thinking how we can take tid-bits from Japan's world class railway system and apply them back home in Toronto. The lack of commitment to EMU's here is certainly staggering and the issues with Canadian Pacific and Canadian National owning/sharing the rails with commuter trains is something we need to overcome. I will always be of the opinion that good public transit and rail offers more freedom than cars. I wish you could be the head transit expansion project boss and manage planning and usage of funds!!! You have my vote of confidence lol :)
I was just in Amsterdam and couldn't help but think how wonderful GO rail service would be if it was packed with NS Sprinters running on similar frequencies as in NL
Thats basically the plan for GO!
I'm leaving my beloved KW for a new home in Milton in about a week. I was thrilled to hear this new and definitely can't wait to see more service and better connections to the west side of the suburbs.
Good video! I think Milton is critical to build. Very thoughtful analysis.
I don't see the need for the diversion to downtown Mississauga. I lived near Square One and walked to Cooksville station every day. It is quite doable.
@@andrewclarkson3401 I respectfully disagree, a connection to Square One from the Milton Line and the Kitchener line is definitely needed, especially if you are leaving Square One and you don't want to walk nearly half an hour with shopping bags in the cold and wind.
@@carlinthomas9482 Also Square One is the much larger transit hub, especially compared to Cooksville GO. It's better integrated with the Hurontario LRT, and you even have Brampton's ZUM buses stopping there. I don't think those reach all the way down to cooksville
I'm a piecemeal guy. The first thing they should do asap is add siding tracks everywhere along the Milton Line that are the easiest to do, so ignore doubling the Lambton bridge etc. Adding just 2 sidings to the Barrie Line allowed for a huge jump in off-peak bi directional service. The same approach should be done for Milton and could be done in 2 years.
The issue is that CP wants *total* separation, its not clear that sidings are going to get us anything in this case.
There are already sidings (short stretches of triple track, really) in multiple areas along the corridor.
rebuilding Cooksville station before setting this plan in motion was a rare Metrolinx W
Haha fair, although I think this has always been cooking separately
@@RMTransit I think it may have been tied to construction of the LRT, but it definitely wasn't intended as a precursor to any Milton go expansion, no. Still, its fortuitous.
When Freight/switching yards are made... they are made in low-cost rural areas... If you see rail-yards in dense areas, it is because the city has grown arounds it... There is no reason to run freight trains through downtowns. Both Montreal and Toronto have huge railyards in relatively dense parts of town. I would think moving the railyards away from the city centre, and building new freight corridors that avoid the downtown entirely would free the downtown rail corridors more cheaply than building new passenger ones which need to be where they are. That would also free up a lot of land in dense areas for urban re-development and thus be self funding by the freight railways.
What happened to High-Speed rail in Ontario? Windsor to Montreal corridor.
We used the High-Speed rail in Italy. It was excellent. Thailand is already working on developing their network. Maybe the Ontario government wants everyone in their SUV's.
The Milton line could serve the Midtown area of Toronto if it was rerouted to Summerhill and it could possibly become a crosstown service if it was extended east to Agincourt and possibly Oshawa. That would be possible if CN and Canadian pacific service was rerouted along Ontario’s highways.
Lake Shore West was so nice for living in the Mimico area of Etobicoke, instead of going up to Bloor and across, I would just take the Lakeshore West Train to Exhibition then to Union
Also if the concern is overloading Line 1 at Summerhill, there could be another station at Dupont added to use that leg of the line
For that to work, you’d need really good connection timing at Kipling to make it an attractive transfer point for downtown-bound passengers to switch from Milton Line to Kitchener Line.
Midtown GO line is my ultimate dream
In my toronto fantasy map, I've always wondered how it would be like if we made a express regional rail system with frequencies similar to the metro and that they have their own dedicated tracks to avoid conflict with other trains sharing the tracks. I could put their tracks on the widest highways (because I think that an 6+ lane highway is nuts) to sacrifice some of hte lanes and that there would be less cars now that people would be riding the train. I'm even doing this in my vancouver fantasy
That would actually be a good idea for rerouting *freight* service rather than GO service.
Gardiner Expy, 401 and DVP can have the Canadian pacific trains while 407 goes to CN.
@@TheReactorLoreinteresting tell me more. You probably know Toronto better than I do, so what’s the reason for cn and cp decisions
There is almost no development around highways but there is industrial development that can be served by freight rail, so freight rail should go on highways for that reason.
@@TheReactorLorecool. Where would u think the tracks for the metro regional rail system should be at then(I was asking CP and CN separately in my prev reply bc they feel really similar)
I agree with the brampton/orangeville line that was closed; iv travelled to own sound few months back and the old line has been ripped up from orangeville northward. With cost of living just going up in toronto more ppl are gonna look to live in those towns but may work downtown still, which means the line could be viewed as needed again in the future
to add, this separate tracks-same corridor thing is exactly what UTA did for Frontrunner from the start, now it's reached the point that Frontrunner has completely different signals and can't run on UP if it wanted to
It works really well and I hope to see more systems like this in North America
@@RMTransit this is actually why frontrunner is the only service to manage level boarding, modern freight is too wide for any platforms above 8 inches
Canada has national rules for rail signals, so that won't be an issue!
@tompw3141 Oh its not an issue, its just a fun tidbit on how separate the corridors have become (main thing is UP and Frontrunner have different PTC systems)
This is brilliant and I hope it gets built. I’d love to see a loop or circumferential line going around Toronto to serve people who don’t want to go downtown
There's also another potential line beyond the Midtown GO line. Using the CN right of way, GO trains could run from Pickering to Bramalea along the CN York and Halton subdivisions. They could even go beyond Bramalea, potentially stopping as far as Georgetown on the Kitchener Line and if continuing west from there on the Halton sub, can travel to Aldershot, West Harbour, and beyond. This runs roughly parallel to highway 407 and 7. It could bring a ton of ridership and intersect with the Stouffville, Richmond Hill and Barrie lines as well. It would be cool to get your opinion on this in a future video.
As amazing as it would be it would cost so much money. Most of the the Halton sub west of Georgetown is single track with a few sidings. On top of that though Milton it sits on a 40' narrow berm. This means that many miles of the berm would have to be widened as well as multiple bridges.
That being said I would also be interested in hearing his opinion of using Aldershot as a hub. Maybe incorporating your idea, and strengthening the service to Niagara as well as adding service to Brantford and beyond.
So basically a GO transit Belt line? I'd say this is the most realistic and probably a cheaper prospect and can have more benefits such as transferring to another line without going to Union Station.
Great vid, can you make one looking at the progress of the current projects?
I'd like to do just that!
They should extend it on the east as well ( Bowmanville, Port Hope, Cobourg)
Are you gonna make a video about the Hazel Mcallion line?
Great video as always! As someone who lives near a regional rail stop outside of Philadelphia, I'd love to hear your thoughts about SEPTAs current plans for the RR and how they compare to things that are going right and wrong for Toronto (my impression is that the emphasis is much more on changing frequency on existing lines than on building new links).
I'm shocked Philly has a fully electrified network and runs so little service!
And has in fact gotten less frequent since I was an undergrad! From the outside it seems as though the priority has been only on the 9-5 commute into Center City, with no confidence in trips between stations further out on the spokes of the system. If we did get more frequent service, though, I could see RR becoming a real alternative to cars for trips between different suburban boroughs. @@RMTransit
There should definitely be a stop at Bloor GO for the Milton line. We should get used to platform sharing as a way to cut costs and service improvement.
Interesting sidebar about the OBRY. I'm likely out to lunch, but what about extending it back up to Orangeville (and beyond?). Orangeville and nearby Shelburne have tripled their populations in the past 30 years and lot's of housing development is occurring there. Given the cost of housing in Toronto, it's inevitable that many of these people will commute to Toronto and Missisauga to work. At the moment, they have to drive cars to get there.
The only flaw in your ideas, is that the trains would go perpendicular for one stop or two then switch back to going back in one direction. And I always find that sort of thing odd, for transport.
Thank you for this video! As a Mississauga resident living between Streetsville and Erindale stations, I always get depressed when major GO announcements come out that seem to completely ignore the existence of the Milton line - so hearing all of these plans sounds amazing and I hope that this time, they stick and get implemented. And maybe - mayyyyyyybe - if all this gets implemented, Milton line travellers may eventually forgive GO transit for the destruction last year of the off-peak GO bus direct-from-downtown service. Getting home to Milton line stations from downtown by GO after the last train has become a total and complete nightmare!
For some context and comparison the Milton line has about the same daily ridership as the Hudson Line one if NYCs commuter lines, and the Hudson Line has all day service in both directions!!!
one thing i think would be nice is like proper unification of metrolinx/go/ttc and like some good way of being able to make plans easily that can use all 3 services, as well as having accurate live tracking etc..
i feel like just making transit as easy as possible to get into would help things a lot, as I know when I was first becoming a regular transit user it would often annoy me when like the bus just didnt show up like the schedule said or the google maps routing not taking into account the go train, etc...
just sad that politicians won't listen too someone on the internet. but if they do, a lot of people would like that
Great video! I really hope Metrolinx pursues the diversion to Square One. I would also divert from the CP rail line at Ellesmere and Warden in Scarborough and continue along Ellesmere to Scarborough Town Centre so there's a rail connection between the two cities. You could then reroute it further north to Malvern and then on to Pickering.
Hi RMTransit, I live in the Beaverton area about a 2-hour drive from Toronto. It seems like GO is missing an opportunity here. With a final stop on the Bala Sub at Bloomington, I wonder if they would consider line addition to Mount Albert, Pefferlaw, Beaverton, Brechin and into Washago at the end of the line. That would free up a number From Washago they can extend the Newmarket Sub and stop along areas that would get them into Newmarket.
I think I saw you on TTC last week, you got off Eglinton station.
Wanted to say hi to you but wasn't sure!
@RMTransit more cost-effective options is crucial. Considering bi-directional running agreements between CP and CN could significantly streamline the process. It's inefficient to route all freight through congested areas like Toronto, Mississauga, and Brampton. Given the predominant west-to-east freight movement from the prairies to ports like Montreal, it makes sense to focus on optimizing routes, especially through the Bala or MacTier subdivisions into eastern Toronto. Simplifying these logistics could offer a more direct and efficient freight pathway, reducing congestion and potentially lowering costs. It's time to rethink our approach to freight movement to make it more efficient and less burdensome on major urban areas.
Hey Reece I kinda disagree when you said summerhill station isn’t close to anything (5:45). By TTC its 2 stops away from Bloor-yonge or 3 stops away from Eglinton station. The corridor is densifying a lot in the area and yonge-st clair is as well :) its perfectly located in midtown.
Thank you Reece for an excellent very well-presented video! Not being familiar with the Toronto area, the large number of excellent maps were extremely useful.
Thanks Roger!
Your are looking well Reece!! Good job👊
I've been interested on these kinds of topics lately because of this channel
Shout out to Reece for this informative video. Had no idea the importance and potential of the Milton line.
Great video! Maybe this is a bit crayonista, but I wonder if it would be possible to extend the midtown line to Scarborough as well as Mississigua town centre too? From there, you could build a new high frequency subway line using the midtown/milton line from Scarborough to Mississauga, as well as a slightly less frequent service from union to Cambridge.
Thank you, Reece!!!!
When a coworker of mine bit the bullet to buy a house, she said:
"Today's bad deal is tomorrow's dream"
If things are going to keep getting more and more expensive, we might as well act now on these big projects, as it will surely be harder to do so later.
I love your TO videos man!
Hey RMTransit, what re your thoughts on a new GO line that goes through suburbs or North Toronto. You can call it a suburb connector or even the 401 line.
Sometimes I wonder whats wrong with North America's transit system and planning. We can only think of transit as North South and East West. If you look at other parts of the world, they have transit routes that goes where people need to go. North east, south west, doesn't matter.
Where as, North America you need to get tranfers 3 times, through 3 different transit systems, and it takes about two to three hours if you want to go from North to West.
While 15 minute train service both directions are important for more populated areas such as Mississauga, it isn't as important for the Barrie line. The towns along that line only fill up during rush hour. Other parts of the day, no one cares if there is "15 minute service". It's better to have a line that connects the Barrie line to Mississauga. That way people can actually commute to work. Simple logic.
Toronto is a lot more grid-like than cities in other parts of world. We don't have a lot of diagonal rights of way for transit projects to use, and you can see on the map clearly that we do use them when they exist. Even once you leave the city, transit is navigating around a lot of land that is or once was for agricultural use in the very recent past, which is also very grid-like.
@@rantingrodent416 Yeh. It used to be agricultural. I agree. But it is now 2024. Even to get across a small town in can take 30 minutes, with possibly 2 tranfers. The problem isn't just trains. Its buses too. I mean, trains you can say you don't have rights to the railway lines, but public roads is a different story.
Sounds like it would be cheaper to build the Missing Link to divert all CP and CN freight trains away. This would completely free up the Milton, Mid-town, and Brampton lines for unimpeded GO Electric service.
CN and CP would name their price, so I don't think it would be cheap.
I don't think this would work. Freight trains are much more particular about grade and turning radius because of how much heavier and longer they are than passenger trains, so creating diversions would be much more challenging, I would think. The existing tracks would already have been laid to optimize for this.
Not to mention that freight trains need to stop at specific industries along the existing line, whereas you can strategically place passenger stations with greater freedom.
Depends on where you'd put this corridor, I'd assume. You want it close enough to the industries the railroads serve, but far enough from habitation to avoid most NIMBYism.
@@barvdw Entirely on the 407 Highway Corridor. It was already built with room for a rail line, and studies have already shown that the hydro lines won't interfere with communications.
@er1555 There's a grade around the Meadowvale area the the 407 descends into, unless they build a long viaduct, it's not freight worthy.
Along with this, we're not rerouting 1 freight line, we're rerouting 2. Sure CN's reroute is under 20 kilometres, but CP's reroute would be over 50 kilometres, along with connecting CP to its other subdivisions such as the CP MacTier, necessitating a bridge from the 407 route to the CP MacTier sub.
Sure for CP's reroute, they'd be using CN existing Halton & York subs, but there's not capacity for both railroads, so more tracks would need to be laid. Problem is many areas are tightly built near the existing tracks.
There's countless of other barriers and flaws in this project but that would be me writing an essay on a RUclips comment lol.
$7.7 billion (USD) is the cost of building phase 2 of the 2nd Avenue subway… which is only 3 stations from 96th street north to 125th street. A tiny distance compared to this parallel track project!
Connecting in the Waterloo Region at the South End of the ION means an hour long trip from UW and Laurier just to connect.
The studies on it suggest that even Cambridge passengers would have a quicker trip via Guelph even accounting for an additional transfer presuming the Fergus line is operated as a shuttle.
Why does that matter, when someone at UW or Laurier’s main campuses can use the Kitchener line?
CP’s Galt Subdivision (aka Milton GO line) runs through the middle of Cambridge, and its disused passenger station is very near UW’s Architecture School and could easily serve Conestoga College with a shuttle bus, if students are the primary target for service.
Have you seen the development plans for the area just North of Kipling Station? 5 new 40 story buildings in the square between Dundas W., Bloor W., Jopling and Beamish. The load on Kipling and the regular subway line will be huge
I was told by a Metrolynx employee that Mississauga owns some of the right of way north of the Galt Sub for part of the distance between Streetsville and Cooksville, not sure of the veracity of this. If you want to get to Cambridge consider the Fergus Spur from Guelph to Cambridge. Distance to Union is within 5 miles of the Galt line. The OBRY is not really useful for heavy rail as the curves are too tight for any speed and the route is really not that direct. The crossing of the Halton sub in Brampton would need to be grade separated which would require dropping it below grade level for quite a distance or elevating it which would be a non starter. Also trying to put a frequent heavy rail service on it would run into a lot of NIMBY resistance. What would be better would be to consider an LRT interurban service on it whose equipment could operate at higher speeds than Heavy GO and could connect to the Brampton GO station on the north side of the Right of Way at the west end of the GO platform. It could be operated as an LRT line and not need to meet transport Canada rules such as ringing bells into and out of all stations, and have traffic signals at level crossing instead of crossing gates with their advance warning requirements. Think outside of the box Reese!
Metrolinx was looking very closely at the Fergus spur back in 2016-2017 or so - frequent inspections, surveyors, etc. Not sure if anything ended up becoming of that.
Keep up the good work.
One interesting thing that an extension out to Cambridge is that it opens up viable intercity transit options between Cambridge/KW/Guelph. People are always talking about Highway 7 widening for the last 60 years, but frequent rail could be a better option.
I use this line every day and it's actually so frustrating especially in the evenings. If I want to stay in Toronto past 7 pm, I can't take it back and have to use Lake Shore West and figure it out from there
Make a video on Indian railways (woulds largest railway system by ridership)
This video is tea. I wish you were in charge of this entire operation, the future of the Toronto region would be much better off for it. It’s wild to me there’s no current irl plan to connect downtown Mississauga to Union station 🤦♂️ like smh. Ty for your efforts in communicating all this info to the public!
I think the Summerhill station is crucial, but it should be complemented with DuPont, which ideally would shift slightly north for an easier transfer. Over the longer term this means you can switch to local (subway) or fast (GO) options at Kipling, subway to downtown or Vaughan at DuPont, then Yonge service for north York at Summerhill. You also get subway line redundancy this way. I assume east end travellers would have other transfer opportunities too, such as OL, though they may try to go downtown at Summerhill.
Understanding that downtown Mississauga doesn't have rapid transit today, there is the LRT which connects to the Lakeshore West GO Line under construction. Of course being a high density, there should be employment opportunities nearby. While not a direct connection to downtown Toronto, will shave off approx 15min of commuting time if you're travelling from downtown Mississauga.
The Milton Line is like the Canadian Version of the NJT Pascack Valley Line & The LIRR West Hempstead branch in New York
I've said this publicly on a GO Transit post before, but I'm actually not too upset about Metrolinx not getting EMUs for the GO RER plan. Toronto has a REALLY bad track record with buying new train sets and having them require complete rebuild on arrival (UPX DMUs, Flexity Streetcars, Toronto Rockets), and that pattern seems to be extending across NA (Acela's new trains). I think it was less of an austerity measure to get Electric Locos and more of a risk management measure. Metrolinx can't afford to get a whole new set of trains for its fleet and have none of them work again. The safest thing would be to get just the locomotive replaced: if those aren't working they can just run the diesel locos, instead of being completely short on trainsets because they had to scrap some locos and coaches to make room for the new trainsets.
That being said, I really think some of the proposals in this video should be formally compiled and delivered to the ministry of transportation (federal or provincial) so that the suggestions can be assured to have reached the proper channels. Sure, us transit nerds are gonna watch this, but I don't feel confident that middle-aged politicians and bureaucrats have the time or interest in watching these.
I really hope people who work at Metrolinx watch your videos
I mean I'm thinking about going for minister of transportation one day and your content has genuinely given me the hope that I can bring change to this province
GO TRAIN MENTIONED RAHHHH 🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️
Can we vote to have you put in charge of Metrolinx?
He'd be too reasonable to head it
I love trains being in a type of trench because on the rare occasion of a derailment, the train pretty much stays confined. It's also less expensive than elevating.
I don't think a trench *is* less expensive because it requires so much excavation and isn't as "assembly line" because bridges being built over are separate whereas with an elevated alignment the elevation deals with that!
Great video! I'm still holding my breath as we have been promised all day GO Train service to Milton before. Hopefully this time it will become a reality.
When the government says something will cost $6B they mean it will cost $12B
Can you please do a transit explained video of the vta light rail?
As someone rode the Milton line for 20 years and NJTransit/PATH today - thank you for this perspective and update. I think all day service on this line would be a huge boon for public transit in this area. Currently milton line riders have to take a bus to clarkson and then the lakeshore train for off peak travel to toronto. One of the biggest mistakes GO has ever made in the last 20 years.
Nice video
I use the Milton Line from Kipling to Union and back when I go to college at GBC's Waterfront Campus. I would use it more to commute downtown if it was all day service both ways cause its quicker to go into Union and walk to where I want to go downtown than to take L2 and L1, or L2 then Kitchener/UP at Bloor GO
Wow you are such a beautiful man/human. I lovee your look. Keeping rocking that died hair :)
I love your videos, please do a video for Freiburg
Even the Richmond Hill line and Stoufville line need all day service as well. The stoufville basically stop running train after 8
I really like the idea of a station at Dundas and Landsdowne. I'd love to see you talk more about that. I think it would be transformational for that part of the city, which I feel often ends up neglected in transit planning.
same goes for a Milton/Midtown Line station in the Junction!
Hey, when you were talking about the Bloor GO/UP station, were you aware of the recent widening and track addition to that station? Unsure if it's related but they just added a whole extra track to that station and possibly further
Yup! This plan is more about upgrades further down the road to the station.
You are doing awesome, man,
(signed)
a guy from toronto
How about planning a space right now for all potential routes throughout Ontario.
I've long thought that this line needs a spur up to Square One so that Mississauga can have a central station, which for a city of nearly a million people it desperately needs.
The connection between Square One and Toronto for transit is surprisingly bad.
love all ur vids. the only thing is it seems hard to justify building a square one spur when a transfer to the Hurontario line of a few short stops at Cookeville will get you there too? idk maybe im missing something
Nice informative
Since GO Transit is one of the busiest commuter rail services in the Toronto metro area with 7 rail lines, it would be historic if GO Transit's Midtown Corridor will become the second busiest rail corridor in Toronto due to the fact that you have a connection to the Milton Line from North Toronto to Milton, with new GO Transit lines such as the Seaton, Locust Hill and Peterborough rail lines coming from both Union and North Toronto followed by GO Transit's Cambridge line that connects the Kitchener line.
You'll have a record breaking 12 GO Transit rail lines, but add two major GO Transit from Sarnia and Windsor dubbed as the Sarnia and Windsor lines, it would connect with VIA Rail and Amtrak, followed by two more GO Transit rail lines towards Cornwall and Alexandria.
That'll be a record breaking 16 GO Transit rail lines and it would be historic in GO Transit history
GO Transit can be electrified within Toronto's city limits while outside the city of Toronto will be diesel powered
Plus! I wouldn't mind if GO Transit gets those Siemens SC-44 Chargers
Its very utopic (annoying word as a dreamer I know..) and some of it seems possible, but 12-16 lines seems very unrealistic. I don’t think in my lifetime knowing Ontario/Toronto.
@@torink8229 Metra is already playing catching up, starting with an extension Milwaukee District West to Rockford, Illinois by 2027
But I think Metra should also extend it's North Central Service to Burlington, Wisconsin and increase it's commuter trains there in order to avoid conflict with Canadian National freight trains
Metra is already planning an extension on the BNSF Line to Kendall County, Illinois on a town called Sandwich, Illinois that is growing. It should also have a second line that extends all the way to Rochelle, Illinois connecting with Metra's Union Pacific West Line
I see Janesville, Wisconsin as a potential Metra hub for the Metra's Milwaukee District North Line and Union Pacific's Northwest Line
Another Metra hub I see is Rochelle for Metra's BNSF Line and Union Pacific West Line
Then I see another Metra's biggest hub for the Rock Island District in Peoria, Illinois resulting in an increase of express trains of Metra's Rock Island District
I see another Metra's biggest hub in Milwaukee for Metra's Union Pacific North Line connecting with Amtrak trains such as the Empire Builder and other Amtrak trains
Metra has 11 rail lines currently in the Chicago metro area, but with the vision of Metra's biggest hubs and with Metra expanding it's lines to the max along with Metra proposing a new line like the SouthEast Service
Metra would have 12 lines in the Chicago metro area
So if GO Transit will have two busiest rail lines in the Toronto metro area in Canada, once Metra expands the BNSF Line and the Milwaukee District West, it will serve as the two most busiest rail lines serving the Chicago metro area
Meaning you have a competition between Metra and GO Transit, the two commuter railroads, of course GO Transit will come out on top
All rail corridors through urban centers should be owned by the Public and lease access to CN, CP, and Metrolinx. Imo, the land on these corridors is no different than the wireless spectrum managed by the CRTC
so where is the billions to buy this private lines going to come from? and the even greater billions to maintain these lines
So glad to hear Cambridge mentioned in the context of Go Transit. Thank you Reece!
I am hoestnly surprised that the Milton line gets the ridership considering its low frequency!
Is not this part of the program of upgrades by the DB consortium?
any likelihood we can build a bypass for CP near 407 near CN Halton / CN York subdivision to totally remove CP trains between Lisgar and The Junction? That sounds cheaper than expanding the existing corridor which is narrow and may be too close to some of the single-family homes around.
I want to see more 👍🏻
I think they need a line that goes through Bolton to Alliston. Lots of people there and no trains between Milton and Barrie.
I live in Mississauga north side close to the Hurontario LRT and boy oh boy is it a pain in the ass to get a go train station a downtown Sauga railway station sounds like a distant dream hope it comes true.
Totally agree.
What is the feasibility of CPR operating alongside dedicated GO tracks if they were converted to electric? Can the wires be high enough off the rails for double-stack container trains to pass underneath? Would it make make pantographs exceptionally tall, especially for single level EMUs Reese proposes? As he points out, all the Milton line stations will have to be rebuilt to access all the same side of the corridor with GO tracks.
The lakeshore lines are the favourite child for GO, the Richmond line is the failed child that everyone talks about every now and then and the Milton line is the successful but forgotten middle child 🤣🤣.
Can TTC subway be able to provide direct through service to GO Lines
GO's problem is it exclusively serves downtown Toronto businesses. There are lots of offices in Mississauga and Markham with only bus service. Two-way rail service doesn't help because you have to ride into downtown, and backtrack out of downtown. A rail line along the 407/hydro corridor would bring rail to many more businesses. An sure, there is a GO Bus along the 407, but all the excursions off the highway at each station make it impractically slow for commuters.
I don’t really agree, in and out to downtown Toronto will be plenty fast
Richmond Hill line, always the one left behind. When all they would need to do would be a federal order on CN. 2 way , all day frequent service to oriel station from Bloomington bringing riders to the subway. An elevated walk way from GO platform to Oriel… Pierre will make this happen I know this for sure
I believe there is a possibility there will be a high speed rail service parallel to the 407 pay toll hi way . Freight trains will be run on freight railway tracks and commuter trains only running on commuter tracks . A light rain system incorporated with 407 is my answer to these transportation problems . SNC Lavalin would have to agree with future rail plans .
I believe GO transit need more stations so that it's more accessible and more usage, yes, it might reduce the high speed velocity over long run but more people could benefit from easy accessible stations so that go transits could be used as substitute to subway
Thats great news. One more reason to kill the hwy 413 proposal. Rapid transit to and from Milton is coming! Way, way higher capacity and more efficient than anither highway! I remember a few years ago when Orangeville council decided to decomission the tracks (not sure if that was the obry line) but I thought that was incredibly short sighted.