The most important difference between Samus (my main) and DS is that Samus double jumps as a morph ball, making her hit box considerably smaller, while DS essentially spread-eagles for her double jump.
Sisqui has a video going over all important tournament relevant differences in hurtbox and hitbox between the Samuses and when you would want to use one vs the other. Doesn't cover this hitlag difference but Dark Samus charge shot and up smash hit a little lower which is good against short characters iirc
@@user-hf3wm2fg4w More of an "it" than anything. Dark Samus was originally Metroid Prime, an asexually-reproducing mutant Metroid that absorbed some of Samus's DNA along with one of her suit upgrades, and as Dark Samus slowly became an entity of living Phazon (basically, a radioactive living mutagen that assimilates matter to reproduce--think Tiberium if you're familiar with Command and Conquer) But because DS has some of Samus's DNA, the logbook scans consistently call DS a "she"
Not really, theres only 3 moves in their toolkit that can clash and it makes a difference (all shown in the video) and the only one that kinda matters is f-smash and if your using f-smash, chances are that you really know what your doing, or you have no idea what your doing and in both cases kinda make this information worthless.
@@eatingyoshi4403 I agree, but if we're looking at the hitlag after clanks alone, then the difference is significant enough to make Samus better than Dark Samus.
@@user-zn2ub8zs5l Either your vastly overestimating this difference, or your logic is flawed if you believe this. I don't have the time to explain either.
I think it's worth mentioning that Samus has a smaller hitbox on double jump making her better at escaping strings BUT dark Samus has a lower stance so her charge shot hits lower making it better for ledge trapping. I tend to consider these when it comes to different matchups
its less that this is the most impactful difference (because it isnt) rather that its the only difference where dark samus is objectively mechanically worse rather than just a subtle animation difference with niche debatable upsides and downsides
There’s a couple other differences that I feel like are a bit more significant. The first and most obvious one is that samus has a much smaller jump hurtbox compared to dark samus. The next one isn’t as obvious and it’s that dark samus’ charge shot is slightly lower to the ground compared to samus. This means that if a character tries to jump to avoid a charge shot, they might barley jump over it, but if this person was playing samus, they would land the charge shot.
This also reminds me of banjo's side B freezing when powering through some proyectiles. Sure, he gets no damage, but the freezing gives the opponent more time to react to the move, which sucks for banjo.
thats definitely the main reason that dark samus is considered to be worse overall, its just been talked about plenty and i thought this was neat (albeit more niche)
Not to be a nerd but Dark samus also has an advantage, she can explode any explosives the user is holding, this doesnt just apply to the items but also things like all of link's bombs, banjo and kazooies grenade, ALL of snakes explosives and more❤ To be honest I would say that gives Dark samsus the edge.
im assuming you mean the upside is that dark samus *doesn't* detonate any explosives the target is holding, since that's a property of fire hitboxes and not electric hitboxes? regardless, the only noteworthy thing that actually affects is link's remote bomb since almost every other explosive either doesn't instantly detonate from either effect (ie snake's nikita), cant be hit in the first place (snake's c4), or explodes from a single hit regardless (snake's grenades, banjo's egg grenade, and the other links' bombs) and as far as things that aren't affected by fire at all, they're effectively the same in that red pikmin aren't affected by fire while yellow pikmin aren't affected by electric
You miss one too! samus crouch after using her dash attack, dark samus doesn't crouch, making dark samus have a bigger disadvantage after using dash attack to cross up shields, I've seen dark samus get punished because of it in a tournament.(I forget which one is it)
When hit with DS' up smash, players get hit by every consecutive hit, whereas players - quite frequently - fall out of Samus' up smash after one or two hits.
good in the few matchups where it makes a difference but it doesn't make a difference in whether charge shot hits ledge for most matchups and makes it easier to jump over in every matchup
Isn't Dark Samus harder to hit when landing on a platform after an Up-B? I remember hearing something about that. (Also, I personally use Samus because I hate the way the sound effect on nair sounds)
Technically it’s the same start up and intangibility frames, but samus has 3 extra frames of end lag in exchange for becoming a morph ball during the roll animation
electric doesnt really do anything for ganon besides make the moves with it worse on clash and unable to hit yellow pikmin (although there is the upside of higher hitlag giving better frame advantage on trades but thats not electric exclusive)
Also, DS's projectiles fire lower. That makes it easier to jump over them, but it also makes it easier to hit shorties/crouched characters. Can also hit the ledge when fully charged
Ultimate is a poorly made competitive game I'm just gonna say it. It's stuff like this you have to consider when balancing a fighting game, not just doing stuff because it's cool. Great casual game at least
of all the flaws with ult as a competitive game i dont really think this is a factor at all melee is still a fantastic competitive game despite having even worse and much more relevant examples of port priority
Dark Samus's projectiles (and up-smash) fire a bit lower to the ground though, which is a fair tradeoff, since hitting shorties and crouched characters is easier, and the charge shot can better hit the ledge
Игры
babe wake up new john just dropped
Honestly if my opponent can show they actually got screwed by it id have to agree
This completely changes everything
I wouldn't have gotten 3 stocked had I not known this secret
@@fullmetalbleachnote i could have beaten mkleo this was the only reason why i lost
I almost 3-0'd Acola but I lost the set because I used dark Samus instead of Samus 😔
@@dhans9662"Almost 3-0'd"
Got jv14'd triple eliminated
The most important difference between Samus (my main) and DS is that Samus double jumps as a morph ball, making her hit box considerably smaller, while DS essentially spread-eagles for her double jump.
I thought its Him for DS*
Sisqui has a video going over all important tournament relevant differences in hurtbox and hitbox between the Samuses and when you would want to use one vs the other. Doesn't cover this hitlag difference but Dark Samus charge shot and up smash hit a little lower which is good against short characters iirc
she spins, she doesn't morphball
@@user-hf3wm2fg4w More of an "it" than anything. Dark Samus was originally Metroid Prime, an asexually-reproducing mutant Metroid that absorbed some of Samus's DNA along with one of her suit upgrades, and as Dark Samus slowly became an entity of living Phazon (basically, a radioactive living mutagen that assimilates matter to reproduce--think Tiberium if you're familiar with Command and Conquer)
But because DS has some of Samus's DNA, the logbook scans consistently call DS a "she"
What a discovery that’s actually significant. If it was ever debatable before, regular Samus is no definitively better
Not really, theres only 3 moves in their toolkit that can clash and it makes a difference (all shown in the video) and the only one that kinda matters is f-smash and if your using f-smash, chances are that you really know what your doing, or you have no idea what your doing and in both cases kinda make this information worthless.
@@eatingyoshi4403Dark samus is objectively worse than Samus because of this mechanic, no matter how niche the utility.
@@user-zn2ub8zs5l that conclusion invalid because there are other niche differences that can cause a bigger impact on an overall match.
@@eatingyoshi4403 I agree, but if we're looking at the hitlag after clanks alone, then the difference is significant enough to make Samus better than Dark Samus.
@@user-zn2ub8zs5l Either your vastly overestimating this difference, or your logic is flawed if you believe this. I don't have the time to explain either.
unfortunately dark samus is cooler so they're actually still even
This
I was gonna say that and then I found this comment.
I think it's worth mentioning that Samus has a smaller hitbox on double jump making her better at escaping strings BUT dark Samus has a lower stance so her charge shot hits lower making it better for ledge trapping. I tend to consider these when it comes to different matchups
its less that this is the most impactful difference (because it isnt) rather that its the only difference where dark samus is objectively mechanically worse rather than just a subtle animation difference with niche debatable upsides and downsides
i’d get banned from any party involving casual smash if i brought this up 👍 very neat
Because casual smash is casual, there are no tier lists in casual you just play for fun man
@@BooAxe yeah I was making a joke 😁
There’s a couple other differences that I feel like are a bit more significant. The first and most obvious one is that samus has a much smaller jump hurtbox compared to dark samus. The next one isn’t as obvious and it’s that dark samus’ charge shot is slightly lower to the ground compared to samus. This means that if a character tries to jump to avoid a charge shot, they might barley jump over it, but if this person was playing samus, they would land the charge shot.
But in return, DS can better hit the ledge with a charge shot
0:37 I like how you made the subtitles look like the ones from the smash presentations
cant wait for nintendo to patch this out just like they did with peach and daisy
Wow, that's so disappointing, I'm hurt but thank you for sharing🙏🏾🙌🏾
This also reminds me of banjo's side B freezing when powering through some proyectiles. Sure, he gets no damage, but the freezing gives the opponent more time to react to the move, which sucks for banjo.
Lmao I saw this on Twitter a while ago, can’t believe I waited this long to watch it, was actually a really good video ❤
I'm...not sure why they programmed electric moves to be a weakness on clank...
i wanna say it was just an oversight but you can never be too sure
@@bee_hachi it HAS to be...
I mean I guess you could argue it makes sense for Falcon knee and Ganon jab but for every other instance it kinda doesn't imo
Interesting, I thought it was about the subtle hurtbox changes dark samus does. The more you know
thats definitely the main reason that dark samus is considered to be worse overall, its just been talked about plenty and i thought this was neat (albeit more niche)
Looks like the wildest oversight that’s never been patched out
Awesome video I hope u do more stuff 😊😊😊😊
I'm here for the apiology trivia
im bee
This reminds me of simon and richter's fire holy water vs aura holy water where the difference is that one can damage red pikmin and the other cant
hey now simon's holy water can also instantly set off link's remote bomb too and thats technically something useful maybe i guess
bee's wisdom strikes again
BANGER bee upload, I will now refuse to play samus players unless they use dark samus and will not explain why
“No it’s the character dark samus has more rebound lag on her electric normals”
“that was an ftilt”
I would like to say that DS has a huge trade offfor this weakness. Her full Charge Shot can hit opponents on ledge. There's nothing niche about that
This is eye opening.
Thank you for revealing the truth.
Not to be a nerd but Dark samus also has an advantage, she can explode any explosives the user is holding, this doesnt just apply to the items but also things like all of link's bombs, banjo and kazooies grenade, ALL of snakes explosives and more❤ To be honest I would say that gives Dark samsus the edge.
Oh yes the fire effect that samus has does not affect everything.
im assuming you mean the upside is that dark samus *doesn't* detonate any explosives the target is holding, since that's a property of fire hitboxes and not electric hitboxes?
regardless, the only noteworthy thing that actually affects is link's remote bomb since almost every other explosive either doesn't instantly detonate from either effect (ie snake's nikita), cant be hit in the first place (snake's c4), or explodes from a single hit regardless (snake's grenades, banjo's egg grenade, and the other links' bombs)
and as far as things that aren't affected by fire at all, they're effectively the same in that red pikmin aren't affected by fire while yellow pikmin aren't affected by electric
@@bee_hachi it works for both
@@TORIIIIII. what works for both?
@@bee_hachi electric can also break items in air
I wish Dark Samus got her own moveset…and her voice.
You miss one too! samus crouch after using her dash attack, dark samus doesn't crouch, making dark samus have a bigger disadvantage after using dash attack to cross up shields, I've seen dark samus get punished because of it in a tournament.(I forget which one is it)
Yeah but Dark Samus does that cool chad Spider-Man second jump rather than regular Samus' lame virgin morph ball jump so
Ds run animation can *sometimes* avoid Mario dash attack. Beat that. 😎
When hit with DS' up smash, players get hit by every consecutive hit, whereas players - quite frequently - fall out of Samus' up smash after one or two hits.
samus has a better smash end of story
this is the best video on youtube
Good find!
Really interesting
They really nerfed edgelords
DS's charge shot can actually hit the edge though
She has one major problem I did not even notice, I did not know that did way more stun there, yikes
Sensational
But what about charge shot hitting below ledge with Dark?
good in the few matchups where it makes a difference but it doesn't make a difference in whether charge shot hits ledge for most matchups and makes it easier to jump over in every matchup
Isn't Dark Samus harder to hit when landing on a platform after an Up-B? I remember hearing something about that.
(Also, I personally use Samus because I hate the way the sound effect on nair sounds)
Hilarious thank you bee
Incredible
Doesn't dark Samus have a faster spot doge or roll? Can't remember
Technically it’s the same start up and intangibility frames, but samus has 3 extra frames of end lag in exchange for becoming a morph ball during the roll animation
Spotdodges are the exact same frame data
samus rolls have 3 more frames of endlag in exchange for a significantly smaller hurtbox during the frames where shes vulnerable
1:15 THE ROBLOX SOUND LOL
You realize that only applies to if you miss with samus? Just don’t miss, if you play better then dark samus is better
i would not say a clash was the same thing as a whiff
are there any ADvantages to this??
not that im aware of
Saw the link on twitter hi guys
howdy
But Dark Samus does shit one handed so who tf cares. That's sick as af.
I thought electric was op, it’s op on ganon
electric doesnt really do anything for ganon besides make the moves with it worse on clash and unable to hit yellow pikmin (although there is the upside of higher hitlag giving better frame advantage on trades but thats not electric exclusive)
Ok
But dark samus looks way cooler
ok but dark samus looks cooler
Also, DS's projectiles fire lower. That makes it easier to jump over them, but it also makes it easier to hit shorties/crouched characters. Can also hit the ledge when fully charged
Sakuraaaiaiaii
Ultimate is a poorly made competitive game I'm just gonna say it. It's stuff like this you have to consider when balancing a fighting game, not just doing stuff because it's cool. Great casual game at least
of all the flaws with ult as a competitive game i dont really think this is a factor at all
melee is still a fantastic competitive game despite having even worse and much more relevant examples of port priority
Yet another reason why ganon is bad
plus theres the smaller jump hurtbox
Dark Samus's projectiles (and up-smash) fire a bit lower to the ground though, which is a fair tradeoff, since hitting shorties and crouched characters is easier, and the charge shot can better hit the ledge
Lightning is cooler than fire so dark samus is better.
so true bestie