Who's Next In The Middle? - Welsh Rugby Centre Options
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- I go through Wales's options in the center and try to work out the best partnership.
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Great work mate as always. Backing the young talent (Roberts, Hawkins, Grady, James, Thomas, Llewellyn), phasing out Tompkins and using J Williams, K Williams and Watkin for that slightly older head whilst the youngsters develop seems like the way to go. Bin off the cap rule to free up selection choices and the centres seem pretty well stocked for the future
Thanks, Jonathan👍🏼
Yes, it’s quite funny really a year or two ago we were looking around wondering who is going to play centre. Now it seems like we have a few options so hopefully we can find a good partnership out of some of these players🏴
Great video a lot of potential with these boys
Cheers Jon. I agree 🏴
Missed this video originally. Centre combo is so difficult. I agree Grady has the highest ceiling but we are short of wings. I get he may not like it but him and Dyer on either wings with Winnett or Beatham or Nagy at full back makes a dangerous back three.
My main thinking with inside centre is what works with the 10. If Costelow is the 10 moving forward we need a big solid centre. We saw this in the france game with Watkins. Costelow has an eye for a gap and he needs someone to take attention off him.
Outside centre is defensive stability hence why I agree Watkins and Roberts are the best combo. Roberts is out with a knee injury so smart money is on Llewellyn. Runs great lines big ball carrier solid in defense. With our rush defense having a guy with that frame will really shut down the outside. That said massive outside best is Hennesy. What a player he is and the potential he has. Another outside bet is Aneurin Owens.
I know alot of people want a 12 who is a 12 and 13 who is a 13 but in multi phase defense you send a centre to each end of the defensive line so having players who can switch from 12-13 is what you need.
Yeah really like some of your points. I think with Grady though I’d want his hands on the ball as much as possible and he may get isolated on the wing like Adams has this year.
Agreed about Costellow though he needs a commanding 12 not a loose cannon like Tomkins. Not seen much of Hennessy tbh. I really like Ackerman though I just think it’s a little early for him yet.
As for Ne Owen I think he’s a solid regional player but if you want that 10/12 centre then Ben Thomas is better than Owen at that in my humble opinion. More physical and just more mature in his play🤷🏻♂️
I like the options though Dave
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast Yeah I get wanting to get his hands on the ball more but his current defensive frailty is concerning at 13. Plus if the forward pack isn't going to get forward let's put as many heavy hitters in the backline as we can. Watkins, Llewlyn, Grady.
Yeah if we wanted a play making 12 Thomas is the best option.
Hennessey hasn't played much for Bath but yeah him and Ackerman at u20s have been superb plus they mesh with Dan Edwards who I think will be the best Welsh 10 compared to our current options of Costelow, Lloyd, Sheedy and Reed.
Yeah I agree about Dan Edwards. Be interesting to see if they try and have look at Llewelyn. He had a decent 50 minutes against the ospreys. I think he’s been getting more game time recently but I would like to see him come back to Wales tbh
good to know we've got options, we need talent in depth and these boys have to be able to tackle and catch the ball before attack and distribution is even considered
I think we have some players who have the ability to form a decent partnership. Just need to get a good balance
Looking forward to see how Ben Thomas and mason Grady perform at centre together against Munster, that could be future Welsh centre partnership🤞🏴
Yeah me too. Seams like a good balance. Grady just needs time in the saddle and I’m sure he will develop into a class player
great video buddy, we share a lot of the same opinions around the centres. Love Tompkins but his size is an issue and defence can be a sketchy. Definitely think the 25 cap rule should go and get Hawkins back. Where we differ, or maybe not you did mirror some of my thoughts, Watkins just hasn't stepped up to international for me, agreed defensively he is ok but brings very little in attack which is the bread and butter of a good centre.
If I had a wish I think hawkins 12 and either roberts or grady at 13. right now I think I would like to see more of grady at 12 he seemed very effective there in that last 15mins vs italy so maybe grady 12 and roberts 13.....could swap williams in perhaps
Great minds think alike mate 👌🏼😂
I agree with your Watkin point but I do think he has really improved for the ospreys the last 2 years and I’m hoping that translates to Wales
And yeah I’d agree with any of those combinations though I think robbers is out till like next Sep-Oct which is a shame
Similar vid coming about the back two coming today or tomorrow too mate so I hope we can agree on that video too👍🏼🏴
On talent, I’d go:
12. Kieran Williams
13. Joe Roberts
I think Watkin has the more all rounded game? Would like to see how Williams went though if he was given a chance
@@TheWelshSportsPodcastI feel very certain that Gats will go for
12. Grady
13. Roberts
I’d like that too. But, Roberts is badly injured isn’t he?
I think he’s out for the rest of the season. Can’t remember what it was
I'd take a look at James Williams at Bristol. But of a late bloomer but playing really well now, good defence and can step in at 10 too.
Nice one Chris. I’ll have a gander on him. Cheers 👍🏼
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast James is originally from the south of England, but I work with his brother and they have a Welsh grandparent. Apparently he'd definitely play for Wales if called up. Not sure if anyone in the WRU knows this though 😬🤷
I’ll get on the blower mate, don’t worry, I’ll sort it😂
I’m sure they have the spies everywhere mate. Good insider knowledge, though I’ll defo look him up, cheers
We have just started a Ultimate XV Podcast. Would love to collab on a XV in the future. Maybe a Wales 2027 World Cup XV?
I'm on this too- would love to have you on mate!
Really flattered guys. What’s the pod about? I will check it out.
I’ve got an instagram page if you wanna message me on there guys 👍🏼
Looking at the Welsh sides in the URC the definitely some fantastic Welsh centres coming tho. If the WRU scraps the 25 cap rule (which they should) we could have a fantastic young squad. Plus bring in some quality 10s in J.Evans , R.Patchall . Sheedy should be the 3 number 10s. Then we should have B.Thomas , Costelow, Lloyd. Coming though. Theres a few players that deserve a shot at this Wales squad. I've watched every Welsh region this season to try and keep up with the youngsters and the older guys that are pushing to play in the Wales squad. I'd love to know your squad of 36-42 players you would pick for the summer internationals.
Hi Rich. Thanks as ever for the interesting comment. Yeah I would like to see a more senior 10 in the team as I think it would 100% bring through some of the less experienced players. Anscombe would still be my choice if he’s available
As for the squad I’d have to have a long think about that one. That would be a good a video idea for the end of the season. Cheers mate 👍🏼
Grady had much more impact at 12 against Italy than any match he has played at 13, big direct carries and offloads is what he is good at but poor defencively. Him and Roberts 12/13 could be an exciting partnership
Yeah fair shout. Would like to see him given more of a chance there and see what it looks like. He’s plying at 13 for Cardiff tonight so looking forward to seeing if he’s developed
Costelow has to be allowed more game time. Leave him out of Aitumn tests and 2025 6N. Has been Wales weakest link . .looking at how close Wales came in 4 of 5 games , then realise how many 3 pt penalties we scored in tournament. ONE against Italy. Other 6 N teams scored 15 plus ..soo his kicking under pressure is obviously in doubt. That's a major missing weapon in our armoury
I agree. I think it would be great if Anscombe could come in for a bit and help the team develop with a study hand at 10
@user-nn2xj9mh4w For the time Costello was on the pitch against Scotland we lost 20-0 and against Ireland 24-7 he did have a good game against France but then we lost 24-7 for the game against Italy. But with Ioan Lloyd on the pitch we came back to within a score against Scotland we were within a score against England and came back within a score against Italy when he only had five minutes on the pitch compared to Costello 75 minutes.Also Ioan Lloyd is a better touch finder from penalties
Agreed with the touch finder aspect but Lloyd can’t run a game at international level. He’s not played there enough and he’s way to erratic
Look at players like Aki, Lawrence and Tuipulotu at 12. All big physical men that can offer a direct option to earn hard yards but their games are about so much more. These guys can step into first receiver roles as part of an attacking pattern. I think Grady could be the long-term option at 12 for Wales but that would rely on coaching to bring skills to his game he does not currently possess. It is possible to transform players to play that way as it happened with Maa Nonu and it has happened with Aki whose game has gone up levels in the last 3 or 4 years. Matt Sherratt has been something of a revelation this season at Cardiff as a head coach getting the maximum out of what is a youthful team of predominantly Welsh players. I think he is capable of doing some of the work to bring Grady on, but I look at the Welsh coaching set up and I have no faith they will move Grady's game along. Gatland was on Scrum V the day after the Italy defeat and was very uninspiring in his views of the game. Still talking with that Warrenball mindset of a direct type of game that the other 6 Nations teams have moved on from. Gatland clearly has the man management skills but he needs fresh ideas around him. He has to have better people around him than Neil Jenkins and Robert Howley. The game has moved on considerably since they played. I'm unconvinced they have the ability to move with the times.
Yeah really interesting points mate. A lot of people in the comments have mentions Grady at 12. Id be happy to see that moving forward and see what it looks like. Agree with you about Sherratt too, he seams like hes developing these young guys which is promising and Thomas and Grady in the centre looked good against Munster the other day
As for Gatland. I think he’s seaming a bit erratic but stubborn atm with some of his choices. I still thing he’s the man to bring us forward. Not as sure about King and Humphries though🤷🏻♂️
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast I don't agree with you about Alex King. Wales's attacking shape in the World Cup had shown signs of improvement but regressed again in the 6 Nations when Howley came back on board. That can't be coincidental. It seems he is taking more and more control as he's been at all the under 20 fixtures.
Alex King is a young coach who is not too long retired. He's probably got contacts within the game he can tap into.
As I said in my first post, Howley and Neil Jenkins are too long out of the playing side to have the capability to adapt their coaching methods.
I don't disagree with you about Humphreys, but Gatland should wipe the coaching slate clean other than King and Forshaw.
Fair point, though the attack has looked poor either side of the WC last year 6N we struggled and this year was a big backward step. I think he like to keep his mates around so can’t see wholesale changes but I think it could do with a freshen up like you said. I’d keep Forshaw though. Looks like he’s building a decent system
Outside bet but Eddie James at the scarlets looks strong and runs some lovely angles
Yeah I really like him. Maybe a little early for hun but he will be involved sooner or later
Great video. There's a bit of short sightedness about Hawkins by many in Wales owing to the politics behind his selection. He's good but he's certainly not Wales best centre right now - we forget he struggled to nail a starting position at the O's and has been patchy in a good Chiefs team. I'd even say the 6N he played was mediocre. I do like him though and was really excited about the prospect of him moving to 10 because he fits the traditional 'Gatland 10' profile better than any of the 10's we have currently. Joe Roberts seemed a shoe-in for the summer but his injury sets us back yet again. Grady Watkins is what I'm expecting. Keep up the good work!
Cheers mate. Not sure I agree but I take your point. I’ve not seen him at 10 but I wouldn’t mind a look. My only worry about that is he’s not playing there regularly which makes me worry about him slotting in there for Wales
hi Christian, I agree we need to get rid of the cap rule now, even now its reduced to 25 caps it just needs to go, I your Welsh and you play your rugby in France , England , Japan or Scotland you should have that option to play for your country. May be we could have had Immanuel Fayi-Waboso in a red jersey instead of the white one, he is Welsh. I do agree with you on Joe Roberts , Mason Grady , Ben Thomas and Scarlets Eddie James. Keiron Williams is a good play to small , that's not a bad thing, that what Graham Henry said about Shane Williams in 2000 and we all know what sort of player Shame was, I think legend comes to mind. I would also see Joe Hawkins in the team and I haven't heard any news on Jac Morgan and Dewi Lake these are two good players. and at the start of this video George North, It's not going to be the same without big George, it was his achilles tendon that went on him at the 79 min of the Italy game and he will not see a rugby ball now in Wales, the next time will be in France. As all ways good to hear from you, have a good Easter Take care mate
Hi mate. Yeah so disappointed for George. I really hoped he would have a good send off but it wasn’t to be. I think there’s some decent options there like you said. We just need to pick a pair now and give them a run of games
Hope you’re well mate. Happy Easter to you and your family 🏴
Watkin and Williams. They play together at the Ospreys and will do even more now. Watkin is a big guy who defends well and Williams is a willing carrier which Wales need. That ability to take club continuity into the international matches will help.
Yeah fair. Would be interesting to see what the step up to internationals is like for Williams’s ball carrying ability
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast It has gotta be better than Tompkins, right? Who was monstered and dropped the ball against Saints on Friday. I'd also like to see Morgan Morris and how he could step up!
Yeah agreed. I’d take anything over Tompkins at this point and yeah would like to see Morris have a look in
Wales need a bit of a clear out.. definitely need a quslity attack coach and needless to say ban the 25cap rule which unlocks more player's available
Yeah we can only hope so mate
Really enjoyed this. Sounds like dropping the 25 cap rule might actually happen so I'd love to see Hawkins and Grady by the next world cup
I hope so mate. Better to do it sooner rather than later so we can get these boys in playing together asap
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast 100%. Shameless plug sorry but started a podcast yesterday if you fancy giving it a go- going through different themed xvs starting with scrum caps….
ruclips.net/video/b_W5rPuISSM/видео.htmlsi=tzjk2_JoEBHM_803
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast 100%. Shameless plug sorry but I've started a podcast based on starting XVs with a different theme each episode. If you have any time let me know what you think- would love to get you on for one of them if you're interested!
ruclips.net/video/b_W5rPuISSM/видео.htmlsi=xHKxJHZbmz46Td0j
Ah cheers mate. Just read your message from yeh pod. I’ll check it out. Would be interested tbh. Sounds like it could be fun 🏴
I actually think we’re pretty well stacked for 12s. However, 13 is an issue:
Potential 12s
Hawkins
Kieran Williams
Mason Grady (not convinced he’s a 13)
Johnny Williams
Nick Tompkins
Ben Thomas
Ioan Lloyd
Watkin
Eddie James
We just need a pair to emerge into a string partnership
A nice combo might be:
10. Hawkins
12. Grady
13. Roberts
Maybe. Not seen Hawkins at 10. Could be the best option though like you said
Keiron williams best welsh centre by a country mile
Fair about. Would love to see him get a chance and the top level 🏴
@TheWelshSportsPodacast As I am watching the Cardiff Munster game on march 30th.I would like to know your opinion on the clear out on Liam belcher and how it was not a red card.In my opinion he clearly lands on his head but is given a yellow card.Would like your thoughts?
Yeah I thought it was a red too mate. I have a slight feeling though because it was 2 players involved it wasn’t solely on the prop. To me it should have been 2 yellows because they both picked him up. Not sure, what’s your thoughts?
I think theyll abolish the 25 cap rule and Joe Hawkins could come back
I hope so mate. Something needs to change asap
I think it should now be:
12. Grady
13. Llewellyn
I don’t mind that partnership but I’d swap them around. I think Grady has more pace to defend in the outside
Grady’s top end pace feels a loss taking him in off the wing - and I personably would love to see him get a good run of games on the wing , however as you said given his size lends him to playing well as a centre and that ball carrying ability, as well as his athleticism and acceleration to find that space and break the lines in the middle of the park - as opposed to receiving out wide - could really offer us something. Ultimately I think it depends on who comes through in the next year or two in the centre and wing positions and will be able to excel wherever he is needed.
And We always talk about our centres being undersized compared to other nations , but given the freak nature of Grady maybe we try him out there and all of a sudden we have one of the biggest and quickest centres in The sport. His size may also help given a lot of our 10s at the moment are quite small.
I made the comment about size before I watched that section of the video so I do agree with you Christian!
That’s alright mate. Good points as always. I think getting him as close to the action as possible make the most sense to me. It’s something that we really need to help Costellow too I think. He’s got all the ability I just think he needs to learn. Would be happy to see him at 13 or even 12, just get him in there 🏴
100%! a longterm combination of Hawkins and Grady with Joe Roberts also in the mix is something exciting we can all wish for! 25 rule needs scrapping asap to stop losing this talent to England, I remember you commented in a video a few weeks ago about the few welsh lads in the Winning England u20 SN side. theres no point bringing it up as all welsh fans are in agreement! We could have a serious side on our hands again soon if all goes well
Let’s hope so mate. I really hope this review the WRU are going though brings real change because what’s been currently happening is unsustainable 🏴
If the 25 cap rule was finally binned grady could stay on the wing cos wales would have the centres needed in midfield.. then imagine the damage grady could do in attack coming in off his wing hitting the line at pace as popping up as an extra big fast ball carrier . Would be ideal .. but only works if the catastrophic 25 cap rule is once and for all banished for good
I think Wales usually play better when Owen Watkin plays.
He certainly does offer us some steadiness
Yea, the cap rule has to go.
It's all well and good saying the clubs will suffer, but we are in a situation where the International game funds the club game, therefore, we need the best possible players available to get the results.
We also need the WRU to step up and find more funding streams, then they can finance the clubs better
Yeah I agree totally. They have let it slip long enough now. It’s time to start putting some things right and get us back on track
Hopefully 25 cap rule goes.
At 12:
Joe Hawkins would be starter but can’t due to cap rule, max llewellyn good all round game or mason grady looked good against Italy in 12 role carried excellently possible 12 or 11 as winger. Reminds me a lil of fickou at 12 power, speed, space finder comfort with ball in hands.
At 13:
Owen Watkins stronger best capped at 13, Joe Roberts creative but lacks strength defensively sub.
At 10: Ben Thomas would prefer to see against our other 10 position. Has a good boot.
Future possibly - Eddie James
No future personally
Johnny Williams never seen him have a good game for wales always making mistakes, nick Tomkins has just turned into a battering ram who loses possession and meters, Kieran Williams think would be the same as nick.
Yeah fair points there. Not sure about Ben at 10 though. I really think he’s developing into a really good 12. I would hesitate to move him at this point
Grady and max llewellyn for me size and pace
That’s a pair of big boys to be fair. Would be fun to watch 🏴
No aneurin owen? Or Harri ackerman? Mmm okay
Always good to have a Dragons fan in the comments 😂
I thin Ackerman has a bright future but not ready for International yet. He’s only played like 3-4 times for the dragons and I’m no convinced that Owen is really top quality
Mason Grady and Ben Thomas centre partnership
They looked pretty good on Saturday to be fair. Looking forward to seeing more of that moving forward
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast hopefully something they can nurture together and bring on youngsters in that position too Cardiff are definitely starting to click
Yeah agreed. I think Cardiff need them in that spot too. Leo lo and Hallahollo getting up there in years now
I couldn't care less , firstly they need to abolish 25 cap rule . Likes of Rhys Carre etc moving to saracens will be unavailable, NEVER MIND 2 more welsh born players who look like now opting to play for England this week
Yeh I heard about those guys. Such a shame. It really needs to be sorted out or this will become a real issue moving forward
Kieron Williams …oh yea …too small, just like BOD, Gordon D’arcy, Conrad Smith.
Is his ability the same level as these guys do you think ?
@@TheWelshSportsPodcast
Maybe not but we are talking about playing for Wales, so if you think comparisons are the standard, then let’s compare Tompkins, Roberts, Grady, Watkin, and J. Williams as well then.
Yes exactly. That’s what the video was about
Williams' game relies on power unlike the others, so size is a bit of an issue. Gatland's got a red mark against him after really costly mistakes against England in the second world cup warm up, so I'd be surprised to see him back anytime soon
Yeah my thoughts exactly. I think he picks some lovely lines and always plays hard so I would be interested to see how it translates but I do think the size will be an issue
For me if you have Costello at 10 you can't have Tompkins at 12.Costello relies on a different first receiver so much and Tompkins does not have the creativity or carrying ability to do that.However Ioan Lloyd tends too use the pods as first receiver and loops around them
Yeah I agree. I think Costello needs a big carrier next to him to thrive. Not convinces Lloyd is an international player yet
Yep tho for me Lloyd gets us better field position and when Lloyd was on against Italy Wales won 14-0 and against Scotland when he was on Wales won 26-7.For me what Costello offers is much less than Ioan Lloyd offers as when Lloyd is playing regardless of centre the ball gets wide and we break the gainline more than we do with Costello.
Fair comparison but I’m not sure if he’s the guy moving forward. I just find him to erratic and not controlling enough. Hopefully Anscombe comes back for a year or 2 while we try to groom a replacement
Great video. There's a bit of short sightedness about Hawkins by many in Wales owing to the politics behind his selection. He's good but he's certainly not Wales best centre right now - we forget he struggled to nail a starting position at the O's and has been patchy in a good Chiefs team. I'd even say the 6N he played was mediocre. I do like him though and was really excited about the prospect of him moving to 10 because he fits the traditional 'Gatland 10' profile better than any of the 10's we have currently. Joe Roberts seemed a shoe-in for the summer but his injury sets us back yet again. Grady Watkins is what I'm expecting. Keep up the good work!
Cheers mate. Not sure I agree but I take your point. I’ve not seen him at 10 but I wouldn’t mind a look. My only worry about that is he’s not playing there regularly which makes me worry about him slotting in there for Wales