Finally someone articulated it. I’m not ignoring you because I don’t like you or am trying to avoid you. I’m ignoring you because I don’t want to disrupt your inner mental world, just as I wouldn’t want anyone doing that to me. I actually consider it the “nice” thing to do.
I’m a 5 & minimalist by nature. I hate having a bunch of stuff I don’t need. Too much stuff makes me anxious & feel weighed down & less free. I need freedom. Less stuff = less decisions too. And I don’t like having people over intruding on my environment. Messes with the energy.
Regarding ‘don’t touch my stuff’ - for me this is a reflection of my need for autonomy. I rarely refuse a request for someone to borrow/use something of mine if they ask, because to me the asking is an indication of respect of my boundaries. It’s the taking without asking that I have a huge issue with. Recent example: partner started eating food off my plate when I was finished. I was like: ‘excuse me? Wtf are you doing?’; Him: ‘I thought you were done.’; Me: ‘I am, but you ask. It’s still mine.’ It comes from a place of growing up in a household without healthy boundaries and a whole lot of intrusion. Regarding hoarding of time: yes, absolutely, yes. Time is my big thing. My primary love language is quality time. If I give you my time then it’s giving you my affection and my respect. Please don’t take that for granted. I hate inefficiency. Time is the one thing I won’t get back. People who waste my time very quickly get shown the door. Regarding your comment on social niceties/mores/‘fluff’ - for me this comes from a place of being repelled by inauthenticity. I find small talk and that social grease as just unnecessary. Get to the point - what do you want? It can also nudge into using my time up, as per above. But for me the authenticity thing comes first. I can happily disagree with someone all day if I think they are genuine about it. But I can’t stand falseness. I struggle with twos and fours because to me they are inauthentic. With twos it’s the whole ‘I am so kind and so nice’ thing. Hey, let me be the judge of that. Don’t tell me what to think about you. And with fours, it’s their constant trying on of different personas, and the desperation at the unhealthy levels with their desire to be unique. If you have to tell me ‘look, I’m so weird’ you very likely aren’t in the least bit weird. Go away. Regarding multiple books: yes, always. I have non-fiction and fiction on the go at once. They serve different purposes. I’m usually working on multiple projects so some will be directly related. Others will just be passing interest. I read different things depending on my mood. And my needs at the time. I couldn’t imagine reading just one thing at a time. I average around 8-10 at one time. I am also a writer, if that makes any difference.
As a 5. These are my responses. 1. I do not like people touching my stuff. I can't tell you how many mountains (that's a metaphor) I've moved by myself because I do not. Do not. Do not. Want my stuff touched. People break stuff. People like to talk about you and your stuff.... Judge you on it and use it against you... Don't let them in. 2. My stuff helps me understand the world. I love understanding. It all serves a purpose. 3. I was a minimalist until I met my 5 wife. Now we have an abundance of stuff. It all serves a purpose. We are homesteaders and strive for self sufficiency. Well.... We're modern homesteaders... Our stuff serves a purpose. 4. You're going to need me before I'm going to need you. 5. Lonely.. No. I'm happy in my mind. I have three friends. They are fives... They are life long friends. We talk twice a decade. (that's a joke. I talk with one on a daily basis. The other two we talk twice a decade. We're close.) 6. My wife and I chose to not have kids to take a step back in life to give our young minds a chance to figure this all out.... It's all chaos. So me now 37 and wife 35... We finally chose to have a child... God help him if he's a five too. I hope he's a seven or a nine. Yes. We dated each other for 10 years to make sure we knew we were right for each other. 7. Drowning in life... Nah.... Been swimming in it. It's been fun trying to figure it all out. I'm drowning when I go to work and am forced to be around people. I've been in upper management for 13 years. It's exhausting. Back to the topic of lonely. I serve the public 40 hours a week and serve the establishment I'm a part of for 40 hours a week. My heart is full at the end of the week. I need time to decompress. 8. "To know and not do." People would often tell me... "Just have kids." My response was, "You don't just selfishly have kids. That's not fair to a child and how they are treated. These types of things take planning." Aging is a real thing. However... I'm very prepared to have brought a child into this world. He will be loved and safe. 9. Yes. Boundaries are important... There's evil out there and it needs to stay at bay. 10. Yes. I'm on an island. I get to choose who gets to come onto it. 11. I do not. Do not. Do not care about social norms. If you want me to elaborate. I will. It's a lengthy explanation. 12. Incompetent teachers are frustrating. Dr. Tom.... Are fives your favorite enneagram type?
The "greed for time" hit home for me. I do that all the time. I think about not wanting to talk to someone while their talking to me... Gotta do better.
While, as an 8, I'm very selective about who I let into my life and fiercely protective of my independence, solitude and space, unlike some fives I've known (even have been married to years ago), I recognize the importance of participation. Thousands of people create and produce tons of the goodness I benefit from. Because of my gratitude to them, I am responsible for contributing my share to this big soup we call humanity even if it would be easier not to. With gratitude Tom, brilliant as always.
As a 5, I understand the same responsibility to people in my life but instead of being able to motivate myself with gratitude it's more like housework. It's the drudgery I have to do to maintain the infrastructure we all need. When I'm done with the interaction I need recovery time to rebuild peace. Reading about other people's reactions to maintaining relationships is so foreign to my experience it's difficult to really understand.
When I was a kid (a developing Five), social interaction was marked mostly by rejection from other children. "This is an A and B conversation. C your way out of it." I wasn't doing it right -- that's the only explanation that takes full responsibility for the failure, as I should. As a result, I am polite in public, minding my Ps and Qs. I do not trust that I will do social interaction correctly beyond that and that others will not reject me. I just keep quiet. I describe it (mentally, of course), as "Life never stopped being middle school/high school". Hoarding myself is safer.
Man, I totally get that! Middle school can be a real trip. Just know, we're all kinda figuring it out as we go. Let’s just keep being polite and see where it takes us!
I definitely read more than one book at a time. Part of seeing new insights is to smash seemingly unrealated ideas together spatially. The juxtaposition tends to make novel insights emerge. The zettelkasten note taking method fosters this, and is how Nicklas Luhmann changed the face of sociology. 5 life, amirite?
Awkwarding people out of their space.....ooohhhkay.....yeah, I totally do that. Not on purpose per se, but because I feel awkward when someone violates my space and I am torn between wanting to finish what I am doing and not be interrupted, and the knowledge that I should do what I can to make other people not feel as awkward as I feel I am because they are there. If you know what I mean. Also, if someone drinks out of my glass, then that is the end of that drink for me. I think it is *disgusting* to take someone else's drink and I never do it to someone else. I never drank out of my kids's drinks and I didn't let them drink out of mine. I never ate my kids's food. If someone takes a bite out of a sandwich of mine, I cut that part out before (and IF) I eat any more of it. Yes, I think I am on the spectrum. 😆
My husband is an INTJ and I see a connection with the dismissive avoidant attachment style. I wonder how much attachment styles play a part in personality types?
I'm a 5/INTJ.....I think the real problem for me is that I am not a good person and I am very aware of that almost all the time. The dismissive/avoidant issue is that it doesn't feel constructive to let people get to close because of how aware I am of my darker side. As I christian I try to mitigate that, but it is what it is.
I find this really fascinating. I am a 4w5 but I lean HEAVILY into my 5 wing so much that I feel like I struggle with avarice ALOT more than envy. I'd much rather be rich than have community or belong 😂 I don't like sharing, I don't like people in my space, I don't like to be engaged at all. I want to be invisible and not perceived. Stay away from me and my stuff 😂😂😂 I'm also an only child so I'm not sure if that plays a part. Frankly, I'm selfish and I've been trying to work on it and pray about it 😅
I'm a 59 y/o multi-millionaire who never made more than a standard working wage. I just lived cheap and simply and invested in a boring-ass index fund. I need enough to be independent. I seriously downplay myself in public so people will leave me alone. Please step out of my way as I make my way down the grocery store isle. If I have to ask you to move I'll seethe with anger for hours. And keep your dog out of my yard.
It's impressive how you've managed to build wealth through simplicity and smart investing! Your approach is a great reminder that financial independence doesn't have to come from flashy choices.
I have a high IQ, ADHD and am a 5. I can confirm that yes there are multiple thought processes being considered at any given time. I can also attest to the annoyance from incompetent people teaching me something i know more about, happens too often.
OK, I really didn’t believe in try types types, but I after learning about the five I have a big feeling that there’s some truth to that tri-type I’m at anagram three, but I started relating to the five when I read that they compartmentalize their friendships, showing only a certain part of themselves and not mixing friend group , as well as being selfish of their time, I don’t want to be intruded because I feel that I’m swayed to conform to other peoples perception of me as a three so I try to keep them out as well as because of me being a three I try to be the best and to be the best I try to acquire as much knowledge about that type of person or subject. My relationship to the five runs very deep and I don’t know why I don’t know if other any threes could relate to this.
Great video as always! You might know the song "I am a rock" by Simon and Garfunkel which really describes the 5 (which I am by the way). ruclips.net/video/hTKcqOWprRc/видео.html It's as if the song was specifically written to show the defenses of 5's. So interesting they wrote this song, probably without even knowing they're describing fives.
I want to push back on the idea that 5s want to shut out love and connection, while fully aware that every type has members who are outliers. I don't get the nuances of social norms etc but am very deeply connected to my husband and friends. My husband is a 9, so our connection is calm, peaceful and not frenetic. We want connection, but that connection can't be demanding, encroaching or critical of who we are. It needs to be inviting, accepting and calm. It's the strength and assurance of my 9 husband that allows me to feel safe in coming out of my hiding places. Life is chaotic and hard, people should not be.
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Finally someone articulated it. I’m not ignoring you because I don’t like you or am trying to avoid you. I’m ignoring you because I don’t want to disrupt your inner mental world, just as I wouldn’t want anyone doing that to me. I actually consider it the “nice” thing to do.
I’m glad you resonate with that perspective! It’s all about respecting each other’s space and mental worlds.
Yes i do have multiple lines of thought at the same time. Its like having three puzzles on the table and solving them all at once.
It’s amazing how our brains can juggle so many thoughts at once! Keeps things interesting, right?
Aaaah here we go again... Dr Tom's all time favorite Enneagram type 🤭😜
Thanks
I’m a 5 & minimalist by nature. I hate having a bunch of stuff I don’t need. Too much stuff makes me anxious & feel weighed down & less free. I need freedom. Less stuff = less decisions too.
And I don’t like having people over intruding on my environment. Messes with the energy.
Thanks for sharing that...
Regarding ‘don’t touch my stuff’ - for me this is a reflection of my need for autonomy. I rarely refuse a request for someone to borrow/use something of mine if they ask, because to me the asking is an indication of respect of my boundaries. It’s the taking without asking that I have a huge issue with. Recent example: partner started eating food off my plate when I was finished. I was like: ‘excuse me? Wtf are you doing?’; Him: ‘I thought you were done.’; Me: ‘I am, but you ask. It’s still mine.’
It comes from a place of growing up in a household without healthy boundaries and a whole lot of intrusion.
Regarding hoarding of time: yes, absolutely, yes. Time is my big thing. My primary love language is quality time. If I give you my time then it’s giving you my affection and my respect. Please don’t take that for granted. I hate inefficiency. Time is the one thing I won’t get back. People who waste my time very quickly get shown the door.
Regarding your comment on social niceties/mores/‘fluff’ - for me this comes from a place of being repelled by inauthenticity. I find small talk and that social grease as just unnecessary. Get to the point - what do you want? It can also nudge into using my time up, as per above. But for me the authenticity thing comes first. I can happily disagree with someone all day if I think they are genuine about it. But I can’t stand falseness. I struggle with twos and fours because to me they are inauthentic. With twos it’s the whole ‘I am so kind and so nice’ thing. Hey, let me be the judge of that. Don’t tell me what to think about you. And with fours, it’s their constant trying on of different personas, and the desperation at the unhealthy levels with their desire to be unique. If you have to tell me ‘look, I’m so weird’ you very likely aren’t in the least bit weird. Go away.
Regarding multiple books: yes, always. I have non-fiction and fiction on the go at once. They serve different purposes. I’m usually working on multiple projects so some will be directly related. Others will just be passing interest. I read different things depending on my mood. And my needs at the time. I couldn’t imagine reading just one thing at a time. I average around 8-10 at one time. I am also a writer, if that makes any difference.
Awesome, thanks for sharing this.
As a 5. These are my responses.
1. I do not like people touching my stuff. I can't tell you how many mountains (that's a metaphor) I've moved by myself because I do not. Do not. Do not. Want my stuff touched. People break stuff. People like to talk about you and your stuff.... Judge you on it and use it against you... Don't let them in.
2. My stuff helps me understand the world. I love understanding. It all serves a purpose.
3. I was a minimalist until I met my 5 wife. Now we have an abundance of stuff. It all serves a purpose. We are homesteaders and strive for self sufficiency. Well.... We're modern homesteaders... Our stuff serves a purpose.
4. You're going to need me before I'm going to need you.
5. Lonely.. No. I'm happy in my mind. I have three friends. They are fives... They are life long friends. We talk twice a decade. (that's a joke. I talk with one on a daily basis. The other two we talk twice a decade. We're close.)
6. My wife and I chose to not have kids to take a step back in life to give our young minds a chance to figure this all out.... It's all chaos. So me now 37 and wife 35... We finally chose to have a child... God help him if he's a five too. I hope he's a seven or a nine.
Yes. We dated each other for 10 years to make sure we knew we were right for each other.
7. Drowning in life... Nah.... Been swimming in it. It's been fun trying to figure it all out. I'm drowning when I go to work and am forced to be around people. I've been in upper management for 13 years. It's exhausting. Back to the topic of lonely. I serve the public 40 hours a week and serve the establishment I'm a part of for 40 hours a week. My heart is full at the end of the week. I need time to decompress.
8. "To know and not do." People would often tell me... "Just have kids." My response was, "You don't just selfishly have kids. That's not fair to a child and how they are treated. These types of things take planning." Aging is a real thing. However... I'm very prepared to have brought a child into this world. He will be loved and safe.
9. Yes. Boundaries are important... There's evil out there and it needs to stay at bay.
10. Yes. I'm on an island. I get to choose who gets to come onto it.
11. I do not. Do not. Do not care about social norms. If you want me to elaborate. I will. It's a lengthy explanation.
12. Incompetent teachers are frustrating.
Dr. Tom.... Are fives your favorite enneagram type?
A 2 word piece of advice - lighten up
@@keithparker1346 What in my statement makes it sound harsh? What part of it do I need to lighten up about?
@@poorboyhomesteading9856 unless you're using multiple usernames I replied to someone else
Thanks for this extensive explanation. I appreciate it.
@@twlahue Thanks for your videos. They help me more than you know.
This is fabulous! Really helps me to understand the 5 in my life!
The "greed for time" hit home for me. I do that all the time. I think about not wanting to talk to someone while their talking to me... Gotta do better.
Right.
Listening to your video while playing relaxing healing sounds helped to learn about this information!
That's awesome! I find that calming background music can be really helpful for taking in information.
While, as an 8, I'm very selective about who I let into my life and fiercely protective of my independence, solitude and space, unlike some fives I've known (even have been married to years ago), I recognize the importance of participation. Thousands of people create and produce tons of the goodness I benefit from. Because of my gratitude to them, I am responsible for contributing my share to this big soup we call humanity even if it would be easier not to. With gratitude Tom, brilliant as always.
Thanks.
As a 5, I understand the same responsibility to people in my life but instead of being able to motivate myself with gratitude it's more like housework. It's the drudgery I have to do to maintain the infrastructure we all need. When I'm done with the interaction I need recovery time to rebuild peace. Reading about other people's reactions to maintaining relationships is so foreign to my experience it's difficult to really understand.
When I was a kid (a developing Five), social interaction was marked mostly by rejection from other children. "This is an A and B conversation. C your way out of it." I wasn't doing it right -- that's the only explanation that takes full responsibility for the failure, as I should. As a result, I am polite in public, minding my Ps and Qs. I do not trust that I will do social interaction correctly beyond that and that others will not reject me. I just keep quiet.
I describe it (mentally, of course), as "Life never stopped being middle school/high school". Hoarding myself is safer.
Man, I totally get that! Middle school can be a real trip. Just know, we're all kinda figuring it out as we go. Let’s just keep being polite and see where it takes us!
@@twlahue Thank you! And thanks for the video!
I definitely read more than one book at a time. Part of seeing new insights is to smash seemingly unrealated ideas together spatially. The juxtaposition tends to make novel insights emerge. The zettelkasten note taking method fosters this, and is how Nicklas Luhmann changed the face of sociology. 5 life, amirite?
The more books, the merrier! It's like a literary party in your brain.
Awkwarding people out of their space.....ooohhhkay.....yeah, I totally do that. Not on purpose per se, but because I feel awkward when someone violates my space and I am torn between wanting to finish what I am doing and not be interrupted, and the knowledge that I should do what I can to make other people not feel as awkward as I feel I am because they are there. If you know what I mean.
Also, if someone drinks out of my glass, then that is the end of that drink for me. I think it is *disgusting* to take someone else's drink and I never do it to someone else. I never drank out of my kids's drinks and I didn't let them drink out of mine. I never ate my kids's food. If someone takes a bite out of a sandwich of mine, I cut that part out before (and IF) I eat any more of it. Yes, I think I am on the spectrum. 😆
Thanks for sharing that.
I’m anxiously awaiting this video for type 6!
Coming SOON
My husband is an INTJ and I see a connection with the dismissive avoidant attachment style. I wonder how much attachment styles play a part in personality types?
I'm a 5/INTJ.....I think the real problem for me is that I am not a good person and I am very aware of that almost all the time. The dismissive/avoidant issue is that it doesn't feel constructive to let people get to close because of how aware I am of my darker side. As I christian I try to mitigate that, but it is what it is.
It's fascinating to explore the intersection between attachment styles and personality types!
I find this really fascinating. I am a 4w5 but I lean HEAVILY into my 5 wing so much that I feel like I struggle with avarice ALOT more than envy. I'd much rather be rich than have community or belong 😂 I don't like sharing, I don't like people in my space, I don't like to be engaged at all. I want to be invisible and not perceived. Stay away from me and my stuff 😂😂😂 I'm also an only child so I'm not sure if that plays a part. Frankly, I'm selfish and I've been trying to work on it and pray about it 😅
Cool
34:00 my bookmark to return to later
I'm a 59 y/o multi-millionaire who never made more than a standard working wage. I just lived cheap and simply and invested in a boring-ass index fund. I need enough to be independent. I seriously downplay myself in public so people will leave me alone. Please step out of my way as I make my way down the grocery store isle. If I have to ask you to move I'll seethe with anger for hours. And keep your dog out of my yard.
It's impressive how you've managed to build wealth through simplicity and smart investing! Your approach is a great reminder that financial independence doesn't have to come from flashy choices.
@@twlahue Well, I can certainly relate to the "avarice" thing.
I have a high IQ, ADHD and am a 5. I can confirm that yes there are multiple thought processes being considered at any given time. I can also attest to the annoyance from incompetent people teaching me something i know more about, happens too often.
Thanks for checking out the video
OK, I really didn’t believe in try types types, but I after learning about the five I have a big feeling that there’s some truth to that tri-type I’m at anagram three, but I started relating to the five when I read that they compartmentalize their friendships, showing only a certain part of themselves and not mixing friend group , as well as being selfish of their time, I don’t want to be intruded because I feel that I’m swayed to conform to other peoples perception of me as a three so I try to keep them out as well as because of me being a three I try to be the best and to be the best I try to acquire as much knowledge about that type of person or subject. My relationship to the five runs very deep and I don’t know why I don’t know if other any threes could relate to this.
Cool.
2, 5, 8 are in the rejection triad. Never heard of “the relationship group.”
It is True!
Intj still here 5/6...love your work dearest doc...and observing you of looong distance. .outta Switzerland...😂😅🎉😁😁🤩🤗👏👏👏🤭😏
Thank you kindly
Oh my…. I am 8-2-5, go figure 😵💫🧐😄absolutely this way or another -it’s a relationship triad 👍
Thank You 🙏
You’re welcome 😊. 258 "The Weirdly Helpful Villain"
@@twlahue Ahaha 🤣 just about 🤪
great video, thank you. x
Thanks
Can you do a fucus on sx 5, please?
I'm a type 5 and this is helpful video
Perfectly said.
Great video as always! You might know the song "I am a rock" by Simon and Garfunkel which really describes the 5 (which I am by the way).
ruclips.net/video/hTKcqOWprRc/видео.html
It's as if the song was specifically written to show the defenses of 5's. So interesting they wrote this song, probably without even knowing they're describing fives.
Cool
Wow, just listened to the song... right on. Type 5 stuff for sure.
I want to push back on the idea that 5s want to shut out love and connection, while fully aware that every type has members who are outliers. I don't get the nuances of social norms etc but am very deeply connected to my husband and friends. My husband is a 9, so our connection is calm, peaceful and not frenetic. We want connection, but that connection can't be demanding, encroaching or critical of who we are. It needs to be inviting, accepting and calm. It's the strength and assurance of my 9 husband that allows me to feel safe in coming out of my hiding places. Life is chaotic and hard, people should not be.
16:30 ... are you sure youre not a 5? 😂
I am sure...
Small talk...the horror! Seriously - it's one of the most draining things ever for 5s like me.