All 64 fighters but Jigglypuff is staying Peach Daisy Bowser Ice Climbers Zelda Falco Marth Lucina Gannon Mewtwo Roy is stay in the game Meta Knight Pit and Dark PiT zero suit wario snake Ike Pokémon Trainer Diddy Kong Lucas Sonic DeDeDe Olimar Lucario Wolf are staying to be my favorite character Villager Mega Man Rosalina Greninja all Miis Palutena Pac -MAN Shulk bowser jr duck hunt dog and duck ryu corrin Bayonetta are staying Inkling Ridley K Rool Isabelle Pirahna Plant Hero Banjo Min Min Steve Pyra Mythra and Sora are staying
The thing that interests me about this topic is if anyone dares to cut the original 12, just because of some arbitrary fan rule that the original 12 must always stay. Jigglypuff is one of the most poorly aged inclusions in the series. It's entirely there because of a gag from the anime that stopped being used decades ago, and because it was easy to make with recycled Kirby assets. I don't think seniority should protect it. After Pichu, Jigglypuff is by far the most expendable Pokemon veteran, imo. I even think we should even keep Squirtle or Ivysaur as standalone characters over Jigglypuff.
Mii Fighters should really be condensed into 1 character with customizable archetypes. It was always silly to have the 3 as separate roster spots. Would be funny if they gave the option to make them look like Switch Sports Miis lmao.
@@squallleonhart93873 characters with 3 unique movesets is pretty much the same as 1 character with 3 unique movesets though, same with Pokémon Trainer, and also Zelda/Sheik pre-Smash4 the only exception to that I’d say is Aegis because they’re pretty much semi-clones of one another with the only animation difference being their specials, more like 1.5 characters
I was kinda expecting one more part where you cut everyone. Saying stuff like “not even being Nintendo’s mascot is safe from the cuts, we have to remove Mario”
Challenge accepted, these will be in no particular order, ((except a select few)) Bowser: even as gaining's most iconic villain and with such a massive legacy, we just can't keep him over an entire franchise...and mario IS the face of the franchise and Nintendo, so it's time for the koopa king to hang up his shell. Ooo boy the franchise cuts... This is going to sting.. Yoshi: you may be the representative of your own franchise and this let you carry on this far.... However you're also a major part of the mario franchise... Unfortunately, you have to go back to dinosaur land... On a similar note, Donkey Kong... Your franchise hasn't had a new game for a long time,.only a couple of remakes and you are very prominent in the mario series too, back to the jungle friend, Marth: your franchise is legendary and still going strong, but it also has a bad reputation in smash due to it's over-representation, it's time for you to sheeth your sword, the battles over... Captain falcon: there's no denying your legacy and impact in smash bros, but unfortunately aside from F zero 99 which will fade soon, you haven't done anything in nearly 2 decades, fly on blue falcon, Link: you may be one of the representation of Nintendo's bigger Franchises, but you weren't even the lead of the most recent legend of Zelda game, it's too early to say for sure, but you could be on your way out, ride on back to hyrule Samus: may be one of the most famous females in gaming, but unfortunately we need to save space for Nintendo's new and growing franchises like Splatoon, and there's already a lot of older represtation, time to return home, Villager: as popular as animal crossing is, new horizons has stopped getting updates, and the most recent animal crossing game is a mobile game that might not even stay up.much longer, back to the island for you. Inkling girl:you may be from a new and popular franchise, but the duo of mario and Kirby is too iconic. mario,Pokémon and Kirby are ultimately bigger Franchises as well, stick to the turf wars, Pikachu: Pokémon may be the best selling media series, but similar to inkling girl, he just doesn't have the smash bros legacy or status of Mario and Kirby, Pikachu return! Kirby: you may be sakuri's baby and your franchise and presence in smash bros is legendary, but at the end of the day, smash is called super smash 'bros" after the mario franchise, so it's time for you to return to Dreamland, Mario: and finally, not even being arguably the most important and famous video game character and having the series named after you is enough, it's time for you to go back to the warp zone,
So, interesting little factoid: Sora's *NOT* actually an SE character! He's a Disney character, which makes him both more and less likely than other third parties to return in the next game.
@@ScorchletteI lowkey wish they'd sneak either of them as extras in other disney movies, like you see Rapunzel in Frozen and so on. But that'd require disney to be bold
Captain Falcon is so synonymous with Smash, most people likely associate him with Smash than F-Zero. He’s basically the series’ mascot. Losing the Falcon Punch would be like having Mario Kart without the blue shell (I know it wasn’t on the SNES, but it’s the most notable item and in every other entry). People forget Smash roster picks weren’t 100% based on “promotion” or would drop characters because they haven’t had an entry in a few years (as if they still aren’t recognizable). Otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten a lot of picks, including retro ones. Ya with a reboot you’ll revaluate some of that, but it’s not like they’d only launch with 12 characters anyway. And you don’t want to have only obvious picks ([insert character] is no longer relevant, so cut them) because that’s not exciting.
@@dougtheghoul2845 Bandai Namco published Pac-Man 99 and thus handled its shutdown. Super Mario Bros. 35 was part of the 35th Mario Anniversary limited-time games. Nintendo has essentially never shut down the online for individual games before they do so across the board for a system; F-Zero 99 will be here for some time
There were only like 3 fighters that I completely disagree with being cut in their rounds which is impressive, considering the absolute insanity of this video lol. All three Mii's being cut probably wouldn't happen period (Mii Costumes are basically free money), but brawler should've lasted a bit longer regardless.
This is an interesting experiment, and in a way end up working as a Tier List of how likely the characters are to return (says a lot about their franchises that Villager and Inkling managed to beat other iconic characters)
Thoughts, typed as I watch 1. I can see Ice Climber’s getting cut, but I don’t think they’re among the most likely cuts 2. I have a hard time seeing Falco get cut. He’s been a mainstay of the series since his introduction 3. I feel like Konami demonstrably does more with metal gear than it does with Castlevania 4. It’s weird to cite Incineroar’s wrestling moveset as the reason why he’d get cut when that was a large reason why he was chosen in the first place 5. Heretical as it it to say, I feel Sora being the winner of the Smash Ballot gives him a leg up over Cloud in an only one can stay scenario. 6. Cutting Megaman is fairly shocking 7. Cutting Bowser Jr. Over Rosalina is definitely not the choice I’d Make. Honestly I’d have Cut rosalina during the “Trimming major first parties” phase 8. Well ,at least Ike’s popularity is acknolwedged 9. I can’t see the Miis ever getting cut. They’re not only an entire feature ontop themselves, they’re a revenue stream too 10. I do appreciate that Later Gens of Pokemon are given a priority here 11. Keeping Yoshi in over Peach and Luigi doesn’t seem right. I feel like a realistic “Return to twelve” roster would cut Yoshi and Falcon to keep a Pikmin and Xenoblade rep
2:47 Every time that people are STILL thinking Sora is a SE rep. While he is created by Nomura, he is 100% OWNED by Disney. You do realized that the Sora amiibo have the copyright of Disney on the bottom of the amiibo for example as well as Disney being credited in smash ultimate.
Okay so am I the only one questioning why Isabelle took so long to cut? She's so close to Villager's moveset, and cutting so many other unique, popular, and iconic characters before axing Isabelle just seems completely ridiculous. Even if she's fairly beloved and the games are very popular, she really should've been cut in the same section as Falco, especially when Villager is the better representative for Animal Crossing.
The reasons are simple: Isabelle is *REALLY* popular with mainstream audiences & Animal Crossing is a juggernaut franchise after the success of New Horizons (now being seen by Nintendo as one of their Big 4......that they fully control). None of these things apply to Falco or Star Fox in general.
Sora is 100% owned by Disney. They choose to let Tetsuya Nomura have his say on the design and direction of the character, though legally he doesn't own Sora. The only thing Square Enix owns in all of Kingdom Hearts is the Final Fantasy/The world ends with you characters.
I stand by the idea that cutting Transform removed any reason for Sheik to exist in Smash. You'd be better off adding Impa as a more distinct and less generic Zelda ninja. Honestly, realizing how absurd this was going to be took a lot of the sting out of the cuts after the halfway point. I do think Yoshi was worth cutting to save someone else, though.
Agreed on Yoshi. With him, a third of the final 12 would be Mario universe characters, so I could see arguments for someone like Shulk or Olimar to take that spot instead. Also, yeah Sheik and ZSS honestly feel like relics of abandoned gimmicks at this point. I get why they’re here for Ultimate, but going forward they would feel a bit superfluous. Give us a revamped Samus that has faster movement with some burst options, and like you said just include Impa so that she could better represent that side of the series and we actually get a Zelda character that isn’t just a version of one of the Triforce wielders.
You stressing over every choice here is why I don’t really hold people accountable over these roster-cutting videos. Every character holds some weight as an inclusion, making their removal a difficult choice for some, and the easiest decision ever for others. It’s all about how you perceive the roster and value the characters, in the end. For example, Xenoblade as a franchise just seemed to get more and more mainstream with each new game, to the point where 3’s publicity arguably rivals the legacy of 1 and even 2. Since the story of that third game is based around the aftermath of merging both worlds of the preceding games, I thought it be appropriate if the next Smash game axed BOTH Shulk and Pyra/Mythra to make room for the main protagonists of 3, Noah and Mio, who each hail from those worlds. Yet, nearly every roster-cutting video I’ve seen makes a priority of keeping either Shulk or both him and the Aegis, because they value keeping 1 and 2’s main protagonists more than me. There’s never going to be a perfect agreement here, because no one sees the worth of every character in this roster in the exact same way.
4:07 Technically, the second game did officially release after Zero, so it’s at least not the last new game. But again, it’s hard to keep characters from a barely used franchise. Especially if there’s multiple.
This was a ride and I genuinely didnt expect the video to go the way that it did. Given you cut luigi, the spacies, the princesses, and practically every third party i was kinda expecting you to completely wipe out the roster and say that nobody was staying
He removed Olimar saying that the newest Pikmin game isn't enough for it to stay relevant BUT he decided to keep Captain Falcon for the 12, just because of the new online game which will clearly be taken down in due time...
Personally I’m fine with seeing characters cut, but I don’t believe that they would actually cut the roster in half. I could see them realistically cutting 1/4 to 3/8 of the roster (trimming the excess and severely dormant while also honoring legacy and recent popularity). Overall I enjoyed the experiment as it shows just how difficult it is to predict the roster (unless you’re a Nintendo employee).
Honestly, K Rool should've been out before Diddy. Fan support is literally all K Rool has unlike Diddy, who has now been in 3 Smash games, is basically the Luigi of the DKC Universe, and even had a grand return in Mario Kart 8's recent DLC, along with having been in many others. Too many people pick K Rool over Diddy simply because of "fan demand" or "being cooler" but that really shouldn't matter when looking at was is most iconic abroad to a much more generalized audience.
I can understand Luigi being cut in favor of Bowser, I mean Luigi did kinda sort of evolve into his own character but if I had to choose between the two I gotta go with Bowser, Smash 64 didn’t even have a single playable villain.
@@dougtheghoul2845I wouldn’t say Donkey Kong is a villain he’s more of just a rival and antagonist for Mario who later evolves as a protagonist of his own series and games.
Well you say that, but that's the entire point. Video games only came back from the crash *by* being marketed as toys. R.O.B was a huge asset on that front.
@squallleonhart9387 Mr. Game and watch is nintendo first hand held systems. It where luigi made his first appearance whitout G&W series there probably won't be nes or super mario bros. That includes Rob as well. If it importance then it goes to GW.
I actually think Hero would be the easiest SE related character to bring back. DQ's relationship with Nintendo is stronger than that of Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts (which is actually owned by Disney, I believe). Nintendo straight up publishes a lot of DQ games themselves, and are solely responsible for some of them even making it to the west, so they definitely seem to like the franchise. On top of that, You really only need one guy to agree to their inclusion (Yuji Horii), and the rest will fall into place. SE doesn't actually even own the Dragon Quest IP, Yuji Horii (Armor Project) does. He seemed to be very happy with how the Heroes turned out in Smash, and would very likely agree to their return without much hassle. On top of that, DQ's inclusion in Smash only helps the series in terms of exposure in the west, which gives them an actual incentive to want them in. The way I see it, the only way Hero doesn't return is if Nintendo doesn't ask for it. I feel like they would though, and I don't see Yuji Horii saying no to their request.
Lol people still mad about Thorgi cutting Yoshi, but honestly jokes aside I wouldn’t miss Jigglypuff, it had everything going for it at the time of Smash 64, being popular in the anime and having a similar body type to Kirby but now as of Gen 9, Pokémon has a massive amount of mons, over 1000, can’t you believe that? Compared to how many it had in 1999.
I honestly wonder who would people choose if it came down to Luigi or Yoshi to get cut. I guess I would choose Yoshi to keep. Sorry Luigi, looks like you won’t be escaping this haunted mansion alive!
I stuck it out until 17:39 before audibly screaming "ENOUGH!!!" Delzethin, this experiment has gone too far! Cutting the roster back down to 12 fighters!? THIS IS MADNESS!!!
At some point, I was thinking you would just eliminate everyone and say, "Smash is canceled. April Fools everyone." And I'm actually surprised Yoshi made it all the way through to the final 12. In a few Ultimate roster cuts I've seen (my own included), Yoshi is one of the most frequent of the original 12 to get the axe.
I would personally say Mr. Game and Watch has more staying potential that R.O.B. Mr. Game & Watch is representing a whole console, while R.O.B is just representing 2 games and a toy. A pretty influential, company saving toy, but come on: They still make Game & Watches. Mii Fighters aren't going anywhere. They make money with the costumes. Ivysaur, Squirtle and Toon Link would be gone in earlier phases in a realistic scenario. I mean, in the case of the former two, that's exactly what happened in Smash 4. You might say "It's 3 characters in 1 slot, so it doesn't count", but at the same time... you're developing 3 totally different characters just for one slot, and the most popular of them is Charizard anyway, so why would we need a weak water turtle and a lizard with a flower? They should go even before Incineroar, which is as popular, if not more, especially in competitive, than Greninja. K.Rool haven't gotten a game appearance since Mario Super Sluggers in 2008. Big villain and a fan favorite, but Diddy is the quintessential second player of the saga. It would also go away before Ridley does. Before F-Zero 99, i would have put Captain Falcon in the same league as Ness in terms of cuts, but technically he has a more recent game than the Star Fox Series. I'm Happy for him. Shulk would stay on the final roster, and Ganondorf went out too soon. Overall, this was an entertaining video, and also a painful watch for my feelings. But it's always hard to cut characters knowing we had everyone, and it's hard knowing that it has to be done.
I didn’t critique much beyond the 36 point, as that’s the size of my reboot roster at the moment. Only thing up until then I would swap personally would be Game and Watch and ROB, as I think the former both stands out wildly from the rest of the cast and is the best “retro” pick in my opinion, being among Nintendo”s oldest. Otherwise I agreed with everything across the board (aside from the 3rd party purge, but after a point it would certainly become necessary with a small enough roster.) As for the final 12, I think it’s definitely solid. Though I’d easily take Isabelle over Villager as she is the face of the franchise and represents it better in my opinion. Also, I think Yoshi would get the axe - the greater Mario universe already has Mario, Bowser, and DK, and Yoshi just isn’t a very interesting inclusion in Smash as is (I think the series could be represented just fine through a stage in this case). Instead I’d probably go with Shulk, Fox, or G&W depending on what they’d want to focus on, leaning towards Shulk. But yeah a really fun and well made video overall, most of your takes and rationale were pretty spot on. I think the topic of roster cuts upsets a lot of people, but it’s something everyone will have to come to deal with sooner or later, and you did a good job at digging into the logic behind these potential cuts.
To be frank, I’m don’t think they’ll cut the roster in half given Smash’s history of asset reuse. At worst, I’m expecting 50 characters (counting newcomers) in the next Smash game’s base roster. But I’d imagine that it’ll be somewhere in the 60s on Day 1. Likewise, I’m not entirely sure we should count Sora as Square Enix when he’s wholly Disney-owned. And I feel like you could swap Captain Falcon for Shulk in the New 12.
>Swap Captain Falcon for Shulk Hell no! You’re telling me you would get rid of “Falcon Punch” for “I’m really feeling it”? Plus there’s F-Zero 99 which got a recent update which adds new stuff including smart steering for Mario Kart.
Yeah I thinks it’s gonna be around 60’s for a reboot roster which is a lot but considering that Nintendo likes to do surprises all the times it could happen
@@squallleonhart9387 xenoblade has had 4 games and 3 or them gad great dlcs in the last 15 years, fzero had a 99 type batleroyale in that time period. Fzero99 is fun but compared to xenoblade it is realy smal. Its like you want a tetris piece from tetris99 in smash instead of shulk.
@@TM-45. that's an incredibly dishonest comparison, Captain Falcon is quite literally the face of Smash at this point and he's that incredibly iconic to the franchise that regardless of F-ZERO's relevance, he's carried by his pure Smash merit alone. quite literally nothing comparable to a tetris piece
I think this would not be the best way to go with the next smash, I think what we should have as the next "Everyone is HERE!" is "Everyone is NEW!" A smash where all the characters are new, or are changed with completely remade moveset (TOTK link, actual DK and not just a gorilla, actual Ness&Lucas and not just random spells, and all the characters you remade in Remake It) This way, we keep the most important characters, and people can't complain that they don't see their favorite characters, and realise that they just had nothing left to bring, they were stuck in a state without being able to evolve, and that they had to be cut in favor of a newer fighter Since Switch 2 will be retrocompatible, we could still play Ultimate and have access to two radically different experiences, but equally as good as the other
In my mind, no way Smash 6 launches with a roster slightly smaller than Sm4sh's or lower unless they come up with a _massive_ new gimmick, else I'm not sure how they'd be able to get people excited for it
Easily. All they need to do is refine the mechanics, revamp veteran movesets to be modern, make higher quality single player modes, introduce new stages/characters, with the promise of dlc later, and that's enough.
My thought of to remove some fighters Jigglypuff Daisy Ice Climbers Dr Mario Pichu Falco Lucina Young Link Roy chrom game and watch snake Ike rob toon link Wii Fit trainer little Mac robin corrin simon richter Incineroar joker terry Byleth sephiroth Kazuya
@@squallleonhart9387 I guess that’s fair, but Shulk got Xenoblade 3 and Olimar got Pikmin 4 (I know neither of them are playable in those games but still)
I do think Xenoblade has become enough of a big deal for Nintendo (it’s their big headliner JRPG) that even in a “only 12 can stay” scenario it’s a mandatory include, whether that’s Shulk or the XC3 protag(s). They’re definitely not keeping Falcon over a Xenoblade rep.
I kinda thought he was a joint custody thing between Square-Enix and Disney right? I mean if Disney completely owns Sora I would’ve expected more cameos and Easter eggs from him in other Disney things than there were so far. Although I also think it’s a more 50/50 chance on whether or not it’d be Cloud or Sora who would be the only Square-Enix rep in a new Smash game.
@@Gamermario-lb3rq Disney 100% owns any original characters from Kingdom Hearts, Sora included. There’s no joint custody in play. The reason why the other Disney characters weren’t included is because that was likely an extra licensing premium that Nintendo probably wasn’t willing to pay for.
@@Gamermario-lb3rqkingdom Hearts as a whole is a joint effort between the companies and developed by SE, but all the KH original characters belong to Disney.
At the end of the day, both companies are notoriously stingy when it comes to ip rights. The fact that Disney fought tooth and nail to prevent Steamboat Willie from becoming public domain is enough proof to me that Sora’s chances of returning to a future Smash game are very slim if Nintendo is willing to pay that much to meet Disney’s demands.
Delzethin once again proving why he's the goat of Smash bros redesign & hypothetical content with how thorough he was with making this video and giving concise reasoning for the cuts made
I like how this was an experiment with different phases. Given that and the points made, it makes it easier to envision what a trimmed down roster would look like for certain ideas of a reboot. Easier for me than it used to be at least =P
20:10 I think it’s bad, no offense Edit: Reasons why it’s bad: 1. Steve not being in smash 6 2. Miis not being in smash 6 3. Sonic not being in smash 6 4. Byleth being in smash 6 5. Mega Man not being in smash 6 6. Roy not being in smash 6 7. Ryu not being in the next smash game 8. Sora not being in the next smash game 9. Banjo and kazooie not being in the next smash game, I want them back if possible And that’s it
11:18. Game & Watch as a series is Nintendo's 9th best selling..... It's larger than Splatoon, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Pikmin. Ain't no way ROB is making it farther than Game & Watch.
I see Steve as an easier cut, obviously not because of popularity or because nobody plays him, but because of the pain that is including his presence in terms of coding and game design, I don't think any Smash devs wants to reprogram and bug these every single stage just because of a single character, even if he has the best selling game ever.
How the heck did Yoshi survived?! The last game he got was Crafted World which was far from being the best in the series and the last time we saw Yoshi in full flesh for a game of his own was in 2014 with Yoshi’s New Island.
I think game and watch has enough smash legacy, uniqueness, and importance to gaming and Nintendo to easily stay all the way to the end, especially over rob.
Idk how you say Fox lost his relevance but Captain Falcon hasn’t. I think a new Star Fox game comes before a new F Zero. (99 is barely a new game in the series, I mean a full modern game) By your logic/parameters he should’ve been cut somewhere in the 20-30 range However I do think the soft reboot with updated move sets and some massive cuts will happen. I could see a roster of 40-50 initially then up to 50-65 after DLC. I think most 3rd party (if not all) are cut, at least in base and very few make it in final roster.
This video was...an interesting ride from start to finish. Luigi getting the boot over Bowser and Captain Falcon sticking around completely were the biggest eyebrow raisers. Not sure if Delzethin will find and respond to this comment but when is the next Smash design tier list featuring the Brawl newcomers?
I think my only issue (biased as it may be) is cutting Ridley before K.Rool. I’d argue the fan demand for Ridley was a little bigger, he’s more important to his home series than K.Rool, and Metroid in general is just more active than the DK series right now (at least in terms of releasing games, DK does admittedly have the theme park and Mario movie stuff) Aside from that I have no issues! Really appreciate the harsh decision making, and not allowing Smash seniority cloud your judgment. Too many people hold that in too high of regard imo.
Honestly I definitely get a lot of the arguments made, the one thing sticking out to me is prioritising Captain Falcon over the likes of Shulk or Olimar and Alph lmao.
Personally, I want them to cut a LOT of characters for the next Smash. Create a game with a huge number of newcomers, as a game that can stand alongside Ultimate, instead of replacing it. That, and overhauling the system in some way. That's should make it stand out even more.
@@INFERNO95 Well yeah, you can keep most (if not all) of the first party newcomers from Ultimate, because they don't have too much screen time as of yet. The Melee, Brawl, and sm4sh veterans are the ones I'd cut the most of.
When making these roster cut vids, people tend to focus on franchise "slots" or recency and completely overlook playstyle (Sakurai's 1st priority) or market appeal to Smash newcomers/non-Nintendo fans (Nintendo's prevailing priority). While safe choices, this roster leaves something to be desired on both fronts; I bet they'll be at least 1 or 2 third party picks. Miis are a revenue generator through costumes and other little add-ons. So unless there's a replacement business model, i don't see Nintendo cutting them for now. Also, each entry's final roster size seems arbitrary: 12, 26, 39, 58, 89. Sidenote: while I personally dislike build-your-avatar characters in games, I like how SF6 handled it in their single player mode: World Tour. A similar mode where your Mii is a stand-in for whatever new mechanics or tutorials taught by the allstar cast--- seems fitting for a series reboot.
I'd say keeping Bowser over Luigi is the right call because that way this overly reduced roster at least gets to keep 2 super heavies, and so we still have at least one villain in the roster And if they gotta keep one AC character, they probably would keep Isabelle over Villager, because she's very much the face of Animal Crossing now
I agreed to the halfway mark but after that, this just got stupid. Luigi?! Seriously?! Even if Nintendo fully reboots the series I can't see, Luigi, Peach, Zelda, and Olimar going anywhere
@@FedoraKirb I don't see the possibility of Nintendo cutting that many characters. I could fully understand even a 30 character roster. But I feel the possibility of them going down to 12 is microscopic
I have no idea where people even got the "half" idea. We don't need to go crazy with this. I think cutting anywhere between a quarter and half the roster and replacing that with a few popular picks (Bandana Dee, Waluigi, a new Sonic character, Geno, Shantae, Rayman, Crash, etc.) is more than enough. And I don't think Echos should count as full slots. That doesn't make any sense, development-wise. At most they should could as a fifth of a slot, or five Echo Fighters equating to one slot in terms of dev time.
What’s with people wanting to cut Diddy from their theoretical roster cuts if it just means hurting DK from ever getting any newcomers since there’s a rule on the DK characters and it means no Dixie & Funky if Diddy isn’t brought back
i think people underestimate Snake's odds to be honest. he could end up going, but i feel like there's points in his favor that are often overlooked. for starters, the ballot was brought up on segments like Sora, Banjo-Kazooie, & Bayonetta, and it's definitely a valid reason for those characters to stick around. however, it seems like a lot of people also forget Snake did very well on the ballot. he was singled out when Sakurai brought up the fact veterans did very well on the ballot (apparently some managed to outplace Bayonetta, the character they claimed was the winner, Snake most definitely being one of them considering he was specifically mentioned.) also, we don't know for sure if usage data is something they consider when deciding the roster, but I think it's something to think about. feels like a lot of people forget these rosters are for video games that people play and not pretty images for you to stare at, so they only look at characters for what they represent. IF usage ends up a factor in how they decide to trim the roster, as much as i love Simon Belmont, appreciate the fact he made it past the halfway mark, and was playing Richter in an online bracket as I saw this video drop, Snake is one of the most commonly played characters in tournament while finding a dedicated Belmont player these days is very rare. we'll never know for sure what the exact online usage data looks like (thanks for keeping Cloud over halfway) and how skewed it is by including people merely playing casually online, BUT i wouldn't be too surprised if the Belmonts were still the least played guest character period. i don't know, maybe we will see a timeline where Castlevania beats out Metal Gear? it is also a cited ballot winner, has stronger Nintendo association, and some people definitely underestimate how lenient Konami is with Castlevania considering it's snuck into some quite random indie games recently. And there for sure isn't space for both in a slashed-in-half roster, one of them had to go in this scenario and I'm happy the other one survived, but I see Metal Gear axed so easily in so many other cut discussions just because it's such an out there third party and I don't think enough people realize just how popular Snake is.
Round 13: This is way too painful. Captain Falcon(no main line game in ages), Pikachu (the anime ended), Donkey Kong (has not had a game in ages), Yoshi (too many mario reps) Round 14: Let's rip this bandaid off Marth (there's plenty of new FE characters Nintendo can pull from), Samus (series never sold that great), Inkling (there's other splatoon characters nintendo can pull from), Bowser (we don't need another mario character), Round 15: Let's finish it Kirby, Link, Mario Round 16: Let's go beyond Masterhand ;)
Cutting fox and keeping falcon is bs tbh, they are both more known as smash characters than their actual game but fox is much more iconic as a character
Next game has all the reasons to make Peach and Daisy not the same character moveset wise, Peach now has Showtime for inspiration for upgrades to her, and Daisy has Wonder with a sleugh of powers that already look like they belong to Daisy due to all the flower motif and petal effects
Big oof. If this was all the cuts for the next smash game I would be extremely disappointed. Those newcomers better be amazing to make up for what the roster was before in smash ultimate. Edit: Actually who am I kidding their probably ain’t many newcomers that could make up for so many lost characters.
Well we are very likely never getting the roster of ultimate again. And if there is another smash game that aims to revamp characters and mechanics, a roster about 1/3 to 1/2 of Ultimate's roster I think is reasonable. However I do still think his suggestion on the order of cuts is very questionable. Thinking Steve would survive before several other 1st and third party characters is kinda silly to me. Or cutting Diddy kong before K rool. And it's funny how he starts off with wanting a variety of playstyles and time periods and he proceeds to cut pretty many of the most unique characters in favor of supposedly more popular characters or ones from the first or latest installment.
@@XBC3403 My biggest problem personally is cutting whole franchises out right. If you cut to many franchises you really start to feel a huge amount of content lost in the progress cause that also means we lose the music of those franchises, stages etc from them as well. But anyway as for not being able to get a roster as big as smash ultimate. Ehh I think is possible as crazy as it sounds. Every smash game has cut about 10 to 20 characters at most. I don’t see the next smash game cutting much of a bigger amount of characters than about 20 as well. Maybe like 30 at most but I seriously just can’t see much of the logic for getting so many cuts out of nowhere. After that point is gonna be really difficult to make the new smash game a better game or have more appeal than smash ultimate. And anyway for all we know the next smash game is just a smash ultimate deluxe with all the same characters and some more additions in the base game and they just continue with more dlc passes later on. Not completely confident of this happening really but is a possibility.
@@Wallie33. yeah. If the next game does what most of the rest of the series has done and largely just improve and expand what previous ganes have done. However if we want them to really take a look at older characters and revamp them, characters like Link, Donkey Kong etc. To give them more fitting movesets and really shake up thr gamrplay mechanics. Than I would expect many more than just 20 or so cuts. In fact sakurai had essentially alluded to such when talking about Ultimate. He mentioned he could've just added and improved on what Smash 4 did. Which is what we got. Or he was considering a route where he would've made bigger changes to character movesets and game mechanics. And if he did take that route, he guessed the roster would've only been like a third of the size of Smash 4
@@XBC3403 Yeah that could certainly work. Tho personally not sure if moveset revamps would really make up for so many loses in the long run. Guess I would just hope the newcomers are of great quality at least.
@@Wallie33. I would be satisfied if the quality is along the lines of ultimate newcomers or dlc broadly. My main hope is that Pyra and Mythra stay or that they update them to incorporate Rex like they originally wanted.
Honestly, I would want to bring back all the DLC Fighters Pass characters from Ultimate in the next game so we can finally have a real Palutena's Guidance on each of them
Nice, I'm still thinking the next game is gonna be an equivalent to Mario Kart-8 Deluxe for Smash Ultimate. Either a new port (or even an update since the Switch-2 is heavily speculated to be backwards compatibility) so I dont think there will be cuts just yet
A Deluxe port isn’t very likely for a number of reasons… -It goes directly against Sakurai's ideology of making each Smash game distinct, a mindset he shared on his RUclips channel. He cited this when mentioning his decision to do Brawl instead of Melee Online for the Wii. - The Switch 2 will almost certainly be backwards compatible (& is actually reported to be able to do exactly that), so the average person will be less compelled to double-dip for a game they likely already own. At least with Mario Kart 8, it was trapped on a failed system that the Switch 1 wasn't backwards compatible with. - Including all of the DLC characters, namely the third-party ones, may require a new revenue split for everyone. This is but one of many potential licensing hurdles involved with adding third-party DLC characters to the base game. While not impossible to do, the amount of legal effort needed would be essentially equivalent to a new game anyway.
I don’t think so, Smash Ultimate already reused assets from Smash 4, hence the whole “Ultimate is a Smash 4 port” people were saying when it got revealed. Ultimate Deluxe fans basically want a port of a port which sounds crazy in itself.
@@squallleonhart9387 it's not that crazy when you consider how man times games like Mario & Sonic 1 have been ported. Also i like how this repile counters the first point of the most liked comment here lol.
I think they would prioritize Issabelle over Villager. Issabelle is basically the Pickachu of animal crossing. Well Villager is more like... pokemon trainer?
@@jacobtidwell8869 Agreed, Animal Crossing is just too big to lose either of them. In fact, I’m fully expecting Splatoon to get a second unique character for a similar reason.
@@Neoxon619 Not only do I agree with Splatoon getting a second character next time being likely, I think Animal Crossing will get it's third in the form of Tom Nook. The series is just that huge and iconic to Nintendo, why not give it another one?
From a marketing standpoint, if you want to drag in as many Pokemon fans as possible, I recommend taking one pokémon from each generation and adding it into the game to make sure there's enough pokémon representation from each generation. For generation 1, we have Pikachu and Mewtwo, for generation 4, we already have Lucario, for generation 6 we have Greninja generation. 7. We have incineroar, And then by the time smash 6 comes out in Pokemon Legends za will probably come out so you can choose starters from that game and make a brand new pokémon trainer for Gen 9 or something
Characters with consistent releases of full fledge game entries, No. Character of a long dormant franchise with a spin-off game exclusively for an online service, Yes.
@@Orion_Cyanide Twintelle is the second most popular ARMS character. So while I could see a scenario where she gets in if/when we get ARMS 2, I’m not sure if she’ll be prioritized over the #1 most popular character & Yabuki’s favorite (Min Min). In a perfect world, we get both.
I think Ice Climbers could still be a technical ceiling on how many fighters can you fit on an 8-player match. On the other hand, removing Ice Climbers could make feasible to implement an item so easy to think about that I'm sure they're the responsible for its absence in Ultimate: the Double Cherry.
While watching, I wanted to give my own try at this. I ignored the 3rd Party removal personally, and had to get a bit creative for some picks with the assumption that there'd be potential newcomers to replace some cut picks as my main focus was trying to keep certain unique movesets in with maybe a dash of my own bias (entirely different from this video, I know, but I still wanted to see what I could think of lol) You'll notice weird picks for replacements (Like Dedede is mentioned there), but that's because I started this list just before we began shaving it down to 12 left as I had assumed that's where we were going lol. __________________________________________ Mario > Ideally with a rework that updates him DK > Again, hopefully with a rework to update him Link > In my best case scenario, Link get's an updated moveset and toon or young link keep his old one. either way, Link stays Samus > Nothing really to add here Yoshi > Cut & Replace with Cloud (Going down a list here of the last fighters in the vid and how my picks change them) Kirby > Good boi Pika > A new Pkmn Trainer so that Pika, Greninja, & Mewtwo all stay as one fighter now. That, or just straight up Pkmn Trainer but I'd rather not cut Pikachu since they're kinda the mascot. Luigi > Good boi C. Falcon > Cut & replaced with Sonic (This one hurt to pick lol) Bowser Dedede > Cut & replaced with Monster Hunter (It's Byleth, but shh) Villager > Swap with Isabelle __________________________________________ 12 more I'd personally additionally like to keep in if we didn't limit ourselves to 12. This where my heavy bias starts kicking in Doc Mario > Has old Mario moveset Toon/Young Link > Hove them be alternating outfits with the old Link Moveset C. Falcon > Is a good boi Shulk > I like Xenoblade Pyra/Mythra > I really like Xenoblade ok? lol Pit > I like Pit, plus Dark Pit could be an alternate costume at least Hero > Gambling man is my main. Plus I'd want to honor Akira Toriyama's legacy some sort of way if I were doing the roster. Ridley > Solid villain pick K. Rool > Another solid villain pick Ganondorf > The last good villain pick. But please for the love of all things unholy and evil for this man, give this dark king a unique moveset Game & Watch > I like his side special Marth > I mean, it's Smash, How else we gonna complain about Fire Emblem? lol But really, an FE Rep can't hurt here. Maybe have some of the others be outfits for him like Roy __________________________________________ All in all, I'd really just rather not cut anyone, but if I were to make such a decision, I think this is how it'd go for me. (It's pretty crappy I know lol but it's my picks at the end of the day)
Everyone else on the internet: (simply cutting the roster by half)
Delzethin: “And this… IS… TO GO… EVEN FURTHER *BEYOND!!!”*
All 64 fighters but Jigglypuff is staying Peach Daisy Bowser Ice Climbers Zelda Falco Marth Lucina Gannon Mewtwo Roy is stay in the game
Meta Knight Pit and Dark PiT zero suit wario snake Ike Pokémon Trainer Diddy Kong Lucas Sonic DeDeDe Olimar Lucario Wolf are staying to be my favorite character
Villager Mega Man Rosalina Greninja all Miis Palutena Pac -MAN Shulk bowser jr duck hunt dog and duck ryu corrin Bayonetta are staying
Inkling Ridley K Rool Isabelle Pirahna Plant Hero Banjo Min Min Steve Pyra Mythra and Sora are staying
RIP Akira Toriyama, we have truly gone further beyond as you have inspired us to
@@vanessasandoval96no way you just said plant and sora stay. Like if it’s personal picks then that’s fair, but realistically no
The thing that interests me about this topic is if anyone dares to cut the original 12, just because of some arbitrary fan rule that the original 12 must always stay.
Jigglypuff is one of the most poorly aged inclusions in the series. It's entirely there because of a gag from the anime that stopped being used decades ago, and because it was easy to make with recycled Kirby assets.
I don't think seniority should protect it. After Pichu, Jigglypuff is by far the most expendable Pokemon veteran, imo. I even think we should even keep Squirtle or Ivysaur as standalone characters over Jigglypuff.
@@brandonwilliams6119 agreed, she’s just about useless and has no impact on the roster
I was so convinced this was going to be an early April Fools video with the roster getting cut down to just Mario.
Mario is unlikely to return really
Same here, lol.
Considering he cut Luigi, it might as well be an April Fools video.
@@dannypalin9583 seriously, he cut him over Yoshi 😭
and kirby
Nintendo makes way too much money from Mii Fighter costumes to even consider cutting them
that's a good point that hasn't really been considered. Nintendo is super greedy after all.
So the sans mii is safe. 😂
Mii Fighters should really be condensed into 1 character with customizable archetypes. It was always silly to have the 3 as separate roster spots.
Would be funny if they gave the option to make them look like Switch Sports Miis lmao.
They should do costumes for existing characters
@@squallleonhart93873 characters with 3 unique movesets is pretty much the same as 1 character with 3 unique movesets though, same with Pokémon Trainer, and also Zelda/Sheik pre-Smash4 the only exception to that I’d say is Aegis because they’re pretty much semi-clones of one another with the only animation difference being their specials, more like 1.5 characters
I was kinda expecting one more part where you cut everyone. Saying stuff like “not even being Nintendo’s mascot is safe from the cuts, we have to remove Mario”
Excuse me what
Challenge accepted, these will be in no particular order, ((except a select few))
Bowser: even as gaining's most iconic villain and with such a massive legacy, we just can't keep him over an entire franchise...and mario IS the face of the franchise and Nintendo, so it's time for the koopa king to hang up his shell.
Ooo boy the franchise cuts... This is going to sting..
Yoshi: you may be the representative of your own franchise and this let you carry on this far.... However you're also a major part of the mario franchise... Unfortunately, you have to go back to dinosaur land...
On a similar note, Donkey Kong... Your franchise hasn't had a new game for a long time,.only a couple of remakes and you are very prominent in the mario series too, back to the jungle friend,
Marth: your franchise is legendary and still going strong, but it also has a bad reputation in smash due to it's over-representation, it's time for you to sheeth your sword, the battles over...
Captain falcon: there's no denying your legacy and impact in smash bros, but unfortunately aside from F zero 99 which will fade soon, you haven't done anything in nearly 2 decades, fly on blue falcon,
Link: you may be one of the representation of Nintendo's bigger Franchises, but you weren't even the lead of the most recent legend of Zelda game, it's too early to say for sure, but you could be on your way out, ride on back to hyrule
Samus: may be one of the most famous females in gaming, but unfortunately we need to save space for Nintendo's new and growing franchises like Splatoon, and there's already a lot of older represtation, time to return home,
Villager: as popular as animal crossing is, new horizons has stopped getting updates, and the most recent animal crossing game is a mobile game that might not even stay up.much longer, back to the island for you.
Inkling girl:you may be from a new and popular franchise, but the duo of mario and Kirby is too iconic. mario,Pokémon and Kirby are ultimately bigger Franchises as well, stick to the turf wars,
Pikachu: Pokémon may be the best selling media series, but similar to inkling girl, he just doesn't have the smash bros legacy or status of Mario and Kirby, Pikachu return!
Kirby: you may be sakuri's baby and your franchise and presence in smash bros is legendary, but at the end of the day, smash is called super smash 'bros" after the mario franchise, so it's time for you to return to Dreamland,
Mario: and finally, not even being arguably the most important and famous video game character and having the series named after you is enough, it's time for you to go back to the warp zone,
So, interesting little factoid: Sora's *NOT* actually an SE character! He's a Disney character, which makes him both more and less likely than other third parties to return in the next game.
So this makes Kairi a disney princess ?
I... technically?
@@ScorchletteI lowkey wish they'd sneak either of them as extras in other disney movies, like you see Rapunzel in Frozen and so on.
But that'd require disney to be bold
Yet somehow it was the SE side (Nomura himself) keeping him back. The world works in mysterious ways.
I feel like if this was real, Captain Falcon would be cut instead of Peach. I think Nintendo would keep her because of Princess Peach Showtime
Yeah, Falcon outliving Ness I can see, but I don't think that he would hang on any longer than Fox would.
@@DefinitivNichtSascha I agree on both accounts. I feel like fox also has more interesting gameplay than Falcon as well, but that could just be me.
There's also the fact he only kept Captain Falcon due to F-Zero 99 which will be taken down in a matter of time...
Captain Falcon is so synonymous with Smash, most people likely associate him with Smash than F-Zero. He’s basically the series’ mascot. Losing the Falcon Punch would be like having Mario Kart without the blue shell (I know it wasn’t on the SNES, but it’s the most notable item and in every other entry).
People forget Smash roster picks weren’t 100% based on “promotion” or would drop characters because they haven’t had an entry in a few years (as if they still aren’t recognizable). Otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten a lot of picks, including retro ones. Ya with a reboot you’ll revaluate some of that, but it’s not like they’d only launch with 12 characters anyway. And you don’t want to have only obvious picks ([insert character] is no longer relevant, so cut them) because that’s not exciting.
@@dougtheghoul2845 Bandai Namco published Pac-Man 99 and thus handled its shutdown. Super Mario Bros. 35 was part of the 35th Mario Anniversary limited-time games. Nintendo has essentially never shut down the online for individual games before they do so across the board for a system; F-Zero 99 will be here for some time
There were only like 3 fighters that I completely disagree with being cut in their rounds which is impressive, considering the absolute insanity of this video lol. All three Mii's being cut probably wouldn't happen period (Mii Costumes are basically free money), but brawler should've lasted a bit longer regardless.
This is an interesting experiment, and in a way end up working as a Tier List of how likely the characters are to return (says a lot about their franchises that Villager and Inkling managed to beat other iconic characters)
Thoughts, typed as I watch
1. I can see Ice Climber’s getting cut, but I don’t think they’re among the most likely cuts
2. I have a hard time seeing Falco get cut. He’s been a mainstay of the series since his introduction
3. I feel like Konami demonstrably does more with metal gear than it does with Castlevania
4. It’s weird to cite Incineroar’s wrestling moveset as the reason why he’d get cut when that was a large reason why he was chosen in the first place
5. Heretical as it it to say, I feel Sora being the winner of the Smash Ballot gives him a leg up over Cloud in an only one can stay scenario.
6. Cutting Megaman is fairly shocking
7. Cutting Bowser Jr. Over Rosalina is definitely not the choice I’d Make. Honestly I’d have Cut rosalina during the “Trimming major first parties” phase
8. Well ,at least Ike’s popularity is acknolwedged
9. I can’t see the Miis ever getting cut. They’re not only an entire feature ontop themselves, they’re a revenue stream too
10. I do appreciate that Later Gens of Pokemon are given a priority here
11. Keeping Yoshi in over Peach and Luigi doesn’t seem right. I feel like a realistic “Return to twelve” roster would cut Yoshi and Falcon to keep a Pikmin and Xenoblade rep
Nobody likes sora he can get cut
Pikmin isn’t important or big enough to keep in a return to 12
@@TM-45.Nobody except everyone who voted for him the Smash Ballot, lol
NONE OF THE 8 shouldn't be cut AT ALL... I didn't say 12... but 8...
Optimal return to 12 is Mario, link with revamped moveset, pikachu, Kirby, samus, captain falcon, marth, inkling, miis, sonic, pit, shulk
For an extremely tiny and minimalistic roster, this is solid. I’d cut Captain Falcon to make room for a more relevant franchise, though.
2:47 Every time that people are STILL thinking Sora is a SE rep. While he is created by Nomura, he is 100% OWNED by Disney. You do realized that the Sora amiibo have the copyright of Disney on the bottom of the amiibo for example as well as Disney being credited in smash ultimate.
Okay so am I the only one questioning why Isabelle took so long to cut? She's so close to Villager's moveset, and cutting so many other unique, popular, and iconic characters before axing Isabelle just seems completely ridiculous. Even if she's fairly beloved and the games are very popular, she really should've been cut in the same section as Falco, especially when Villager is the better representative for Animal Crossing.
The reasons are simple: Isabelle is *REALLY* popular with mainstream audiences & Animal Crossing is a juggernaut franchise after the success of New Horizons (now being seen by Nintendo as one of their Big 4......that they fully control). None of these things apply to Falco or Star Fox in general.
I think keeping Pikmin and Xenoblade in the game is more important than having Mario take up 1/3 of the final roster
Same, no way Nintendo would cut two relevant franchises to keep yoshi and bowser
I would keep Olimar over Captain Falcon. F-Zero 99 will be taken offline eventually
Especially when they’ve really been pushing both series in the last few years.
I personally would agree but our bias is showing here with that X2 profile
After Round 1:
Pichu Mains: “Stop, he’s already dead!”
Sora is 100% owned by Disney. They choose to let Tetsuya Nomura have his say on the design and direction of the character, though legally he doesn't own Sora. The only thing Square Enix owns in all of Kingdom Hearts is the Final Fantasy/The world ends with you characters.
Half way through the video im very convinced this is an elaborate April Fool's bit. Good show.
Ok, cuting Wolf and Falco were painful, but axing the whole Star Fox cast, tho expected, was still the biggest stab in the dark
Star Fox is a franchise that will languish in obscurity until the next Smash.
wolf is yet another fox semi clone and he didnt even return for smash 4 dlc like lucas and roy, i can easily see him getting cut tbh
I stand by the idea that cutting Transform removed any reason for Sheik to exist in Smash. You'd be better off adding Impa as a more distinct and less generic Zelda ninja.
Honestly, realizing how absurd this was going to be took a lot of the sting out of the cuts after the halfway point. I do think Yoshi was worth cutting to save someone else, though.
That's fair although i feel like at this point cutting Sheik would be illegal.
Agreed on Yoshi. With him, a third of the final 12 would be Mario universe characters, so I could see arguments for someone like Shulk or Olimar to take that spot instead.
Also, yeah Sheik and ZSS honestly feel like relics of abandoned gimmicks at this point. I get why they’re here for Ultimate, but going forward they would feel a bit superfluous. Give us a revamped Samus that has faster movement with some burst options, and like you said just include Impa so that she could better represent that side of the series and we actually get a Zelda character that isn’t just a version of one of the Triforce wielders.
You stressing over every choice here is why I don’t really hold people accountable over these roster-cutting videos. Every character holds some weight as an inclusion, making their removal a difficult choice for some, and the easiest decision ever for others. It’s all about how you perceive the roster and value the characters, in the end.
For example, Xenoblade as a franchise just seemed to get more and more mainstream with each new game, to the point where 3’s publicity arguably rivals the legacy of 1 and even 2. Since the story of that third game is based around the aftermath of merging both worlds of the preceding games, I thought it be appropriate if the next Smash game axed BOTH Shulk and Pyra/Mythra to make room for the main protagonists of 3, Noah and Mio, who each hail from those worlds. Yet, nearly every roster-cutting video I’ve seen makes a priority of keeping either Shulk or both him and the Aegis, because they value keeping 1 and 2’s main protagonists more than me. There’s never going to be a perfect agreement here, because no one sees the worth of every character in this roster in the exact same way.
Yeah. He claimed that Pikmin 4 isn't enough to keep Olimar but F-Zero 99 was enough to keep Captain Falcon. Just no...
4:07
Technically, the second game did officially release after Zero, so it’s at least not the last new game. But again, it’s hard to keep characters from a barely used franchise. Especially if there’s multiple.
This was a ride and I genuinely didnt expect the video to go the way that it did. Given you cut luigi, the spacies, the princesses, and practically every third party i was kinda expecting you to completely wipe out the roster and say that nobody was staying
Unfortunately, you need fighters to have a fighting game.
You get no characters, give me your liver
I was expecting him to pull a SF1 and make the roster so small that it'd just be Mario and Luigi until the Luigi cut happened
I could see Snake surviving over Simon tbh, Konami are perfectly happy to profit on Metal Gear even now
“Ahh shit…here we go again…”
He removed Olimar saying that the newest Pikmin game isn't enough for it to stay relevant
BUT he decided to keep Captain Falcon for the 12, just because of the new online game which will clearly be taken down in due time...
Personally I’m fine with seeing characters cut, but I don’t believe that they would actually cut the roster in half. I could see them realistically cutting 1/4 to 3/8 of the roster (trimming the excess and severely dormant while also honoring legacy and recent popularity). Overall I enjoyed the experiment as it shows just how difficult it is to predict the roster (unless you’re a Nintendo employee).
Honestly, K Rool should've been out before Diddy. Fan support is literally all K Rool has unlike Diddy, who has now been in 3 Smash games, is basically the Luigi of the DKC Universe, and even had a grand return in Mario Kart 8's recent DLC, along with having been in many others. Too many people pick K Rool over Diddy simply because of "fan demand" or "being cooler" but that really shouldn't matter when looking at was is most iconic abroad to a much more generalized audience.
I can understand Luigi being cut in favor of Bowser, I mean Luigi did kinda sort of evolve into his own character but if I had to choose between the two I gotta go with Bowser, Smash 64 didn’t even have a single playable villain.
You can kinda count Donkey Kong but yeah.
@@dougtheghoul2845I wouldn’t say Donkey Kong is a villain he’s more of just a rival and antagonist for Mario who later evolves as a protagonist of his own series and games.
I’d cut Luigi and give one of Mario’s skins a full Luigi makeover.
R.O.B over G&W is silly. He's Nintendo's oldest character (In the roster at least) cutting him over a toy is silly.
Well you say that, but that's the entire point. Video games only came back from the crash *by* being marketed as toys. R.O.B was a huge asset on that front.
R.O.B saved Video Games from the Crash of 1983 I think that’s more significant than Mr. Game & Watch.
He ends up cutting ROB anyways. If I had to trim it down to 12, I would keep Game and Watch as our retro rep. I would have Olimar over Captain Falcon
@squallleonhart9387 Mr. Game and watch is nintendo first hand held systems. It where luigi made his first appearance whitout G&W series there probably won't be nes or super mario bros. That includes Rob as well. If it importance then it goes to GW.
As long as i have R.O.B. in the next game, i will be happy
I actually think Hero would be the easiest SE related character to bring back. DQ's relationship with Nintendo is stronger than that of Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts (which is actually owned by Disney, I believe). Nintendo straight up publishes a lot of DQ games themselves, and are solely responsible for some of them even making it to the west, so they definitely seem to like the franchise. On top of that, You really only need one guy to agree to their inclusion (Yuji Horii), and the rest will fall into place. SE doesn't actually even own the Dragon Quest IP, Yuji Horii (Armor Project) does. He seemed to be very happy with how the Heroes turned out in Smash, and would very likely agree to their return without much hassle. On top of that, DQ's inclusion in Smash only helps the series in terms of exposure in the west, which gives them an actual incentive to want them in.
The way I see it, the only way Hero doesn't return is if Nintendo doesn't ask for it. I feel like they would though, and I don't see Yuji Horii saying no to their request.
Well, at least you didn't cut Yoshi.
and then proceed to make him an assist trophy
Lol people still mad about Thorgi cutting Yoshi, but honestly jokes aside I wouldn’t miss Jigglypuff, it had everything going for it at the time of Smash 64, being popular in the anime and having a similar body type to Kirby but now as of Gen 9, Pokémon has a massive amount of mons, over 1000, can’t you believe that? Compared to how many it had in 1999.
@@squallleonhart9387I can understand his reasons for cutting Yoshi, I just think a veteran becoming an assist trophy would feel insulting lmao
I honestly wonder who would people choose if it came down to Luigi or Yoshi to get cut.
I guess I would choose Yoshi to keep. Sorry Luigi, looks like you won’t be escaping this haunted mansion alive!
Rip Thorgi for the backlash on kicking yoshi
I stuck it out until 17:39 before audibly screaming "ENOUGH!!!" Delzethin, this experiment has gone too far! Cutting the roster back down to 12 fighters!? THIS IS MADNESS!!!
At some point, I was thinking you would just eliminate everyone and say, "Smash is canceled. April Fools everyone." And I'm actually surprised Yoshi made it all the way through to the final 12. In a few Ultimate roster cuts I've seen (my own included), Yoshi is one of the most frequent of the original 12 to get the axe.
This felt like Yoda sensing Order 66.
I would personally say Mr. Game and Watch has more staying potential that R.O.B. Mr. Game & Watch is representing a whole console, while R.O.B is just representing 2 games and a toy. A pretty influential, company saving toy, but come on: They still make Game & Watches.
Mii Fighters aren't going anywhere. They make money with the costumes.
Ivysaur, Squirtle and Toon Link would be gone in earlier phases in a realistic scenario. I mean, in the case of the former two, that's exactly what happened in Smash 4. You might say "It's 3 characters in 1 slot, so it doesn't count", but at the same time... you're developing 3 totally different characters just for one slot, and the most popular of them is Charizard anyway, so why would we need a weak water turtle and a lizard with a flower? They should go even before Incineroar, which is as popular, if not more, especially in competitive, than Greninja.
K.Rool haven't gotten a game appearance since Mario Super Sluggers in 2008. Big villain and a fan favorite, but Diddy is the quintessential second player of the saga. It would also go away before Ridley does.
Before F-Zero 99, i would have put Captain Falcon in the same league as Ness in terms of cuts, but technically he has a more recent game than the Star Fox Series. I'm Happy for him.
Shulk would stay on the final roster, and Ganondorf went out too soon. Overall, this was an entertaining video, and also a painful watch for my feelings. But it's always hard to cut characters knowing we had everyone, and it's hard knowing that it has to be done.
I think cutting yoshi to keep peach and falcon to keep fox would have been better plays tbh
I was half expecting by the end the fox only meme
I didn’t critique much beyond the 36 point, as that’s the size of my reboot roster at the moment. Only thing up until then I would swap personally would be Game and Watch and ROB, as I think the former both stands out wildly from the rest of the cast and is the best “retro” pick in my opinion, being among Nintendo”s oldest. Otherwise I agreed with everything across the board (aside from the 3rd party purge, but after a point it would certainly become necessary with a small enough roster.)
As for the final 12, I think it’s definitely solid. Though I’d easily take Isabelle over Villager as she is the face of the franchise and represents it better in my opinion. Also, I think Yoshi would get the axe - the greater Mario universe already has Mario, Bowser, and DK, and Yoshi just isn’t a very interesting inclusion in Smash as is (I think the series could be represented just fine through a stage in this case). Instead I’d probably go with Shulk, Fox, or G&W depending on what they’d want to focus on, leaning towards Shulk.
But yeah a really fun and well made video overall, most of your takes and rationale were pretty spot on. I think the topic of roster cuts upsets a lot of people, but it’s something everyone will have to come to deal with sooner or later, and you did a good job at digging into the logic behind these potential cuts.
To be frank, I’m don’t think they’ll cut the roster in half given Smash’s history of asset reuse. At worst, I’m expecting 50 characters (counting newcomers) in the next Smash game’s base roster. But I’d imagine that it’ll be somewhere in the 60s on Day 1.
Likewise, I’m not entirely sure we should count Sora as Square Enix when he’s wholly Disney-owned. And I feel like you could swap Captain Falcon for Shulk in the New 12.
>Swap Captain Falcon for Shulk
Hell no! You’re telling me you would get rid of “Falcon Punch” for “I’m really feeling it”? Plus there’s F-Zero 99 which got a recent update which adds new stuff including smart steering for Mario Kart.
Yeah I thinks it’s gonna be around 60’s for a reboot roster which is a lot but considering that Nintendo likes to do surprises all the times it could happen
You really only need around 30 characters most other characters are unnecessary
@@squallleonhart9387 xenoblade has had 4 games and 3 or them gad great dlcs in the last 15 years, fzero had a 99 type batleroyale in that time period.
Fzero99 is fun but compared to xenoblade it is realy smal.
Its like you want a tetris piece from tetris99 in smash instead of shulk.
@@TM-45. that's an incredibly dishonest comparison, Captain Falcon is quite literally the face of Smash at this point and he's that incredibly iconic to the franchise that regardless of F-ZERO's relevance, he's carried by his pure Smash merit alone. quite literally nothing comparable to a tetris piece
I think this would not be the best way to go with the next smash, I think what we should have as the next "Everyone is HERE!" is "Everyone is NEW!"
A smash where all the characters are new, or are changed with completely remade moveset (TOTK link, actual DK and not just a gorilla, actual Ness&Lucas and not just random spells, and all the characters you remade in Remake It)
This way, we keep the most important characters, and people can't complain that they don't see their favorite characters, and realise that they just had nothing left to bring, they were stuck in a state without being able to evolve, and that they had to be cut in favor of a newer fighter
Since Switch 2 will be retrocompatible, we could still play Ultimate and have access to two radically different experiences, but equally as good as the other
In my mind, no way Smash 6 launches with a roster slightly smaller than Sm4sh's or lower unless they come up with a _massive_ new gimmick, else I'm not sure how they'd be able to get people excited for it
My sentiment exactly.
Easily. All they need to do is refine the mechanics, revamp veteran movesets to be modern, make higher quality single player modes, introduce new stages/characters, with the promise of dlc later, and that's enough.
@@djdrizzy9139 If the online is actually good this time that alone would sell the game
You give up too easily.
It’s probably gonna be around the 60s in terms of the launch roster size.
Hero might stick around if Smash 6 is timed well to promote Dragon Quest 12. Also to honour Toriyama in a sense.
Besides, Final fantasy is tricky as it is (mostly) a PlayStation exclusive. Meanwhile, Dragon Quest is always on Nintendo home consoles
I'm more biased towards Byleth but I would honestly think he'd get cut first over Robin.
Yeah. Hard to argue against a character from the game that saved the franchise
I can’t believe he prioritized Captain Falcon over Fox, Olimar, or Shulk 😭
My thought of to remove some fighters
Jigglypuff Daisy Ice Climbers Dr Mario Pichu Falco Lucina Young Link Roy chrom game and watch snake Ike rob toon link Wii Fit trainer little Mac robin corrin simon richter Incineroar joker terry Byleth sephiroth Kazuya
I can’t believe people forgot about F-Zero 99.
@@squallleonhart9387 I guess that’s fair, but Shulk got Xenoblade 3 and Olimar got Pikmin 4 (I know neither of them are playable in those games but still)
@@GuyOfTheSillyVariety 20:44 is in the lore of 3 (I think) and Olimar is playable in Shipwreck tales.
Falcon is Mr. Smash Bros at this point
I do think Xenoblade has become enough of a big deal for Nintendo (it’s their big headliner JRPG) that even in a “only 12 can stay” scenario it’s a mandatory include, whether that’s Shulk or the XC3 protag(s). They’re definitely not keeping Falcon over a Xenoblade rep.
Love seeing fans lose their minds over his choices
Nah even as an April fools joke you can’t justify Captain falcon with F-zero 99 after cutting olimar despite having Pikmin 4
… do people still think Sora is a Square-Enix character? 2:47
Many do, but he actually isn’t.
I kinda thought he was a joint custody thing between Square-Enix and Disney right? I mean if Disney completely owns Sora I would’ve expected more cameos and Easter eggs from him in other Disney things than there were so far. Although I also think it’s a more 50/50 chance on whether or not it’d be Cloud or Sora who would be the only Square-Enix rep in a new Smash game.
@@Gamermario-lb3rq Disney 100% owns any original characters from Kingdom Hearts, Sora included. There’s no joint custody in play. The reason why the other Disney characters weren’t included is because that was likely an extra licensing premium that Nintendo probably wasn’t willing to pay for.
@@Gamermario-lb3rqkingdom Hearts as a whole is a joint effort between the companies and developed by SE, but all the KH original characters belong to Disney.
At the end of the day, both companies are notoriously stingy when it comes to ip rights. The fact that Disney fought tooth and nail to prevent Steamboat Willie from becoming public domain is enough proof to me that Sora’s chances of returning to a future Smash game are very slim if Nintendo is willing to pay that much to meet Disney’s demands.
Delzethin once again proving why he's the goat of Smash bros redesign & hypothetical content with how thorough he was with making this video and giving concise reasoning for the cuts made
I like how this was an experiment with different phases. Given that and the points made, it makes it easier to envision what a trimmed down roster would look like for certain ideas of a reboot. Easier for me than it used to be at least =P
8:15
The second you cut Jigglypuff, one of the ORIGINAL TWELVE, I knew you weren’t screwing around.
Mario hasn’t been relevant since Odyssey all the way back in 2017, 7 years ago… he’s getting cut!
20:10 I think it’s bad, no offense
Edit:
Reasons why it’s bad:
1. Steve not being in smash 6
2. Miis not being in smash 6
3. Sonic not being in smash 6
4. Byleth being in smash 6
5. Mega Man not being in smash 6
6. Roy not being in smash 6
7. Ryu not being in the next smash game
8. Sora not being in the next smash game
9. Banjo and kazooie not being in the next smash game, I want them back if possible
And that’s it
11:18.
Game & Watch as a series is Nintendo's 9th best selling..... It's larger than Splatoon, Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Pikmin. Ain't no way ROB is making it farther than Game & Watch.
My only changes to the final roster would be cut Falcon and Yoshi, keep Olimar and Greninja.
I see Steve as an easier cut, obviously not because of popularity or because nobody plays him, but because of the pain that is including his presence in terms of coding and game design, I don't think any Smash devs wants to reprogram and bug these every single stage just because of a single character, even if he has the best selling game ever.
You have a lot of guts to make this.
I wouldn't dare do so much cutting for the roster due to bias.
How the heck did Yoshi survived?! The last game he got was Crafted World which was far from being the best in the series and the last time we saw Yoshi in full flesh for a game of his own was in 2014 with Yoshi’s New Island.
Last DK game was in 2014 with Tropical Freeze too
The last full F-xero game was in 2003 and Captain falcon made it the whole way
Because aMSa would be sad
Because aMSa would be sad
I think game and watch has enough smash legacy, uniqueness, and importance to gaming and Nintendo to easily stay all the way to the end, especially over rob.
Yeah, if I were to trim it down to 12, I'd keep Mr. Game as our retro legacy rep.
Its like the infinity war snap all over again.
Idk how you say Fox lost his relevance but Captain Falcon hasn’t. I think a new Star Fox game comes before a new F Zero. (99 is barely a new game in the series, I mean a full modern game) By your logic/parameters he should’ve been cut somewhere in the 20-30 range
However I do think the soft reboot with updated move sets and some massive cuts will happen. I could see a roster of 40-50 initially then up to 50-65 after DLC. I think most 3rd party (if not all) are cut, at least in base and very few make it in final roster.
This video was...an interesting ride from start to finish. Luigi getting the boot over Bowser and Captain Falcon sticking around completely were the biggest eyebrow raisers.
Not sure if Delzethin will find and respond to this comment but when is the next Smash design tier list featuring the Brawl newcomers?
I think my only issue (biased as it may be) is cutting Ridley before K.Rool. I’d argue the fan demand for Ridley was a little bigger, he’s more important to his home series than K.Rool, and Metroid in general is just more active than the DK series right now (at least in terms of releasing games, DK does admittedly have the theme park and Mario movie stuff)
Aside from that I have no issues! Really appreciate the harsh decision making, and not allowing Smash seniority cloud your judgment. Too many people hold that in too high of regard imo.
I love Pyra and Mythra, but there's a good chance they're going to make room for Noah or Mio.
Pyra/Mythra represent the most successful Xenoblade game to date, they’re staying.
@@Neoxon619 I agree
@@Neoxon619 Shulk is better.
Nobody from xenoblade is getting cut anytime soon.
I was here at the beginning of relax Alex channel and I'm here at the beginning of this one. Phenomenal job as always!
Honestly I definitely get a lot of the arguments made, the one thing sticking out to me is prioritising Captain Falcon over the likes of Shulk or Olimar and Alph lmao.
And I thought I was ready for the inevitable roster cuts...
Thank you for shouting out Hyrule Warriors Sheik.
Personally, I want them to cut a LOT of characters for the next Smash. Create a game with a huge number of newcomers, as a game that can stand alongside Ultimate, instead of replacing it.
That, and overhauling the system in some way. That's should make it stand out even more.
Most of the character in ultimate are ones fans been asking for there aren't that many characters who are popular that people want to see in smash.
@@INFERNO95 Well yeah, you can keep most (if not all) of the first party newcomers from Ultimate, because they don't have too much screen time as of yet. The Melee, Brawl, and sm4sh veterans are the ones I'd cut the most of.
Other than Cap being swapped with Shulk, I can totally see the final roster being the start of a new age.
When making these roster cut vids, people tend to focus on franchise "slots" or recency and completely overlook playstyle (Sakurai's 1st priority) or market appeal to Smash newcomers/non-Nintendo fans (Nintendo's prevailing priority). While safe choices, this roster leaves something to be desired on both fronts; I bet they'll be at least 1 or 2 third party picks. Miis are a revenue generator through costumes and other little add-ons. So unless there's a replacement business model, i don't see Nintendo cutting them for now. Also, each entry's final roster size seems arbitrary: 12, 26, 39, 58, 89. Sidenote: while I personally dislike build-your-avatar characters in games, I like how SF6 handled it in their single player mode: World Tour. A similar mode where your Mii is a stand-in for whatever new mechanics or tutorials taught by the allstar cast--- seems fitting for a series reboot.
Your videos are always really polished and aesthetically pleasing, good job with that
I'd say keeping Bowser over Luigi is the right call because that way this overly reduced roster at least gets to keep 2 super heavies, and so we still have at least one villain in the roster
And if they gotta keep one AC character, they probably would keep Isabelle over Villager, because she's very much the face of Animal Crossing now
I agreed to the halfway mark but after that, this just got stupid. Luigi?! Seriously?! Even if Nintendo fully reboots the series I can't see, Luigi, Peach, Zelda, and Olimar going anywhere
In a roster of 12, who would you cut instead? Anything past the halfway point is going to be super tough regardless.
@@FedoraKirb I don't see the possibility of Nintendo cutting that many characters. I could fully understand even a 30 character roster. But I feel the possibility of them going down to 12 is microscopic
@@Evan_Child_of_God Oh they absolutely won’t. Pretty sure after the halfway point was just for the sake of an exercise lol.
I have no idea where people even got the "half" idea. We don't need to go crazy with this. I think cutting anywhere between a quarter and half the roster and replacing that with a few popular picks (Bandana Dee, Waluigi, a new Sonic character, Geno, Shantae, Rayman, Crash, etc.) is more than enough. And I don't think Echos should count as full slots. That doesn't make any sense, development-wise. At most they should could as a fifth of a slot, or five Echo Fighters equating to one slot in terms of dev time.
What’s with people wanting to cut Diddy from their theoretical roster cuts if it just means hurting DK from ever getting any newcomers since there’s a rule on the DK characters and it means no Dixie & Funky if Diddy isn’t brought back
There's no way that Captain Falcon, or Yoshi would make the final roster over Luigi, Shulk and Olimar
Joker is not getting cut, since the launch of Persona on all platforms and Persona 3 Reload it has become unimaginablely popular.
Ideally he wouldn’t be, but Delzethin has a point about Sonic being top priority & Bayo being an honorary Nintendo character at this point.
Yeah, the Mii Fighters are here to stay. Having Nintendo's most iconic avatar creator leaving just isn't happening
i think people underestimate Snake's odds to be honest. he could end up going, but i feel like there's points in his favor that are often overlooked. for starters, the ballot was brought up on segments like Sora, Banjo-Kazooie, & Bayonetta, and it's definitely a valid reason for those characters to stick around. however, it seems like a lot of people also forget Snake did very well on the ballot. he was singled out when Sakurai brought up the fact veterans did very well on the ballot (apparently some managed to outplace Bayonetta, the character they claimed was the winner, Snake most definitely being one of them considering he was specifically mentioned.)
also, we don't know for sure if usage data is something they consider when deciding the roster, but I think it's something to think about. feels like a lot of people forget these rosters are for video games that people play and not pretty images for you to stare at, so they only look at characters for what they represent. IF usage ends up a factor in how they decide to trim the roster, as much as i love Simon Belmont, appreciate the fact he made it past the halfway mark, and was playing Richter in an online bracket as I saw this video drop, Snake is one of the most commonly played characters in tournament while finding a dedicated Belmont player these days is very rare. we'll never know for sure what the exact online usage data looks like (thanks for keeping Cloud over halfway) and how skewed it is by including people merely playing casually online, BUT i wouldn't be too surprised if the Belmonts were still the least played guest character period.
i don't know, maybe we will see a timeline where Castlevania beats out Metal Gear? it is also a cited ballot winner, has stronger Nintendo association, and some people definitely underestimate how lenient Konami is with Castlevania considering it's snuck into some quite random indie games recently. And there for sure isn't space for both in a slashed-in-half roster, one of them had to go in this scenario and I'm happy the other one survived, but I see Metal Gear axed so easily in so many other cut discussions just because it's such an out there third party and I don't think enough people realize just how popular Snake is.
cutting Luigi is insane because cutting Luigi but yet leave falcon who didn't even had an official game since 2003.
This is probably the best version of this list I’ve seen.
Round 13: This is way too painful.
Captain Falcon(no main line game in ages), Pikachu (the anime ended), Donkey Kong (has not had a game in ages), Yoshi (too many mario reps)
Round 14: Let's rip this bandaid off
Marth (there's plenty of new FE characters Nintendo can pull from), Samus (series never sold that great), Inkling (there's other splatoon characters nintendo can pull from), Bowser (we don't need another mario character),
Round 15: Let's finish it
Kirby, Link, Mario
Round 16: Let's go beyond
Masterhand
;)
This progressively got worse and worse.
No not the video, it was very good and interesting, but how painful the cuts were.
Del, why the heck did you Thanos the roster 10 times in a row? One was enough! D:
In all seriousness, the video got crazier as Round 7 concluded.
Cutting fox and keeping falcon is bs tbh, they are both more known as smash characters than their actual game but fox is much more iconic as a character
I'm hoping Daisy is reworked for the next Smash game. Give her abilities akin to abilities from Mario Bros. Wonder.
Next game has all the reasons to make Peach and Daisy not the same character moveset wise, Peach now has Showtime for inspiration for upgrades to her, and Daisy has Wonder with a sleugh of powers that already look like they belong to Daisy due to all the flower motif and petal effects
Hoping Daisy gets Luigified from Peach assuming she stays.
@@squallleonhart9387Of course daisy is staying don't listen to the haters on the net.
Big oof. If this was all the cuts for the next smash game I would be extremely disappointed. Those newcomers better be amazing to make up for what the roster was before in smash ultimate.
Edit: Actually who am I kidding their probably ain’t many newcomers that could make up for so many lost characters.
Well we are very likely never getting the roster of ultimate again. And if there is another smash game that aims to revamp characters and mechanics, a roster about 1/3 to 1/2 of Ultimate's roster I think is reasonable.
However I do still think his suggestion on the order of cuts is very questionable. Thinking Steve would survive before several other 1st and third party characters is kinda silly to me. Or cutting Diddy kong before K rool. And it's funny how he starts off with wanting a variety of playstyles and time periods and he proceeds to cut pretty many of the most unique characters in favor of supposedly more popular characters or ones from the first or latest installment.
@@XBC3403 My biggest problem personally is cutting whole franchises out right. If you cut to many franchises you really start to feel a huge amount of content lost in the progress cause that also means we lose the music of those franchises, stages etc from them as well.
But anyway as for not being able to get a roster as big as smash ultimate. Ehh I think is possible as crazy as it sounds. Every smash game has cut about 10 to 20 characters at most. I don’t see the next smash game cutting much of a bigger amount of characters than about 20 as well. Maybe like 30 at most but I seriously just can’t see much of the logic for getting so many cuts out of nowhere. After that point is gonna be really difficult to make the new smash game a better game or have more appeal than smash ultimate. And anyway for all we know the next smash game is just a smash ultimate deluxe with all the same characters and some more additions in the base game and they just continue with more dlc passes later on. Not completely confident of this happening really but is a possibility.
@@Wallie33. yeah. If the next game does what most of the rest of the series has done and largely just improve and expand what previous ganes have done. However if we want them to really take a look at older characters and revamp them, characters like Link, Donkey Kong etc. To give them more fitting movesets and really shake up thr gamrplay mechanics. Than I would expect many more than just 20 or so cuts.
In fact sakurai had essentially alluded to such when talking about Ultimate. He mentioned he could've just added and improved on what Smash 4 did. Which is what we got. Or he was considering a route where he would've made bigger changes to character movesets and game mechanics. And if he did take that route, he guessed the roster would've only been like a third of the size of Smash 4
@@XBC3403 Yeah that could certainly work. Tho personally not sure if moveset revamps would really make up for so many loses in the long run. Guess I would just hope the newcomers are of great quality at least.
@@Wallie33. I would be satisfied if the quality is along the lines of ultimate newcomers or dlc broadly. My main hope is that Pyra and Mythra stay or that they update them to incorporate Rex like they originally wanted.
Honestly, I would want to bring back all the DLC Fighters Pass characters from Ultimate in the next game so we can finally have a real Palutena's Guidance on each of them
im not living in a luigi-less smash bros
Nice, I'm still thinking the next game is gonna be an equivalent to Mario Kart-8 Deluxe for Smash Ultimate. Either a new port (or even an update since the Switch-2 is heavily speculated to be backwards compatibility) so I dont think there will be cuts just yet
A Deluxe port isn’t very likely for a number of reasons…
-It goes directly against Sakurai's ideology of making each Smash game distinct, a mindset he shared on his RUclips channel. He cited this when mentioning his decision to do Brawl instead of Melee Online for the Wii.
- The Switch 2 will almost certainly be backwards compatible (& is actually reported to be able to do exactly that), so the average person will be less compelled to double-dip for a game they likely already own. At least with Mario Kart 8, it was trapped on a failed system that the Switch 1 wasn't backwards compatible with.
- Including all of the DLC characters, namely the third-party ones, may require a new revenue split for everyone. This is but one of many potential licensing hurdles involved with adding third-party DLC characters to the base game. While not impossible to do, the amount of legal effort needed would be essentially equivalent to a new game anyway.
@@Neoxon619 Yeah if you went that far there is no point in going back
I don’t think so, Smash Ultimate already reused assets from Smash 4, hence the whole “Ultimate is a Smash 4 port” people were saying when it got revealed. Ultimate Deluxe fans basically want a port of a port which sounds crazy in itself.
@@Hugo-yz1vb but if you go back in trems of size you potential kill the franchise.
@@squallleonhart9387 it's not that crazy when you consider how man times games like Mario & Sonic 1 have been ported. Also i like how this repile counters the first point of the most liked comment here lol.
While I saw this coming down to 12 I have to say I can't see Captain falcon making it over olimar
Falcon wouldnt make it over puff or fox if this was realistic
Imagine if the next roster actually looks like this but every single cut character comes back as an assist trophy
I think they would prioritize Issabelle over Villager. Issabelle is basically the Pickachu of animal crossing. Well Villager is more like... pokemon trainer?
I think the more-likely scenario is that both would stay, tbh.
@@jacobtidwell8869 Agreed, Animal Crossing is just too big to lose either of them. In fact, I’m fully expecting Splatoon to get a second unique character for a similar reason.
@@Neoxon619 Not only do I agree with Splatoon getting a second character next time being likely, I think Animal Crossing will get it's third in the form of Tom Nook.
The series is just that huge and iconic to Nintendo, why not give it another one?
happy to see someone making these cuts who understands that pokemon is not just the first generation
From a marketing standpoint, if you want to drag in as many Pokemon fans as possible, I recommend taking one pokémon from each generation and adding it into the game to make sure there's enough pokémon representation from each generation. For generation 1, we have Pikachu and Mewtwo, for generation 4, we already have Lucario, for generation 6 we have Greninja generation. 7. We have incineroar, And then by the time smash 6 comes out in Pokemon Legends za will probably come out so you can choose starters from that game and make a brand new pokémon trainer for Gen 9 or something
Characters with consistent releases of full fledge game entries, No. Character of a long dormant franchise with a spin-off game exclusively for an online service, Yes.
Nintendo would probably fight to keep Min Min around even in a reboot. She's in a new in-house IP and removing her would be a loss of face.
I could also see them possibly replacing her with Twintelle. Idk, it seems possible imo
Yabuki in particular would fight for her in the same way Miyamoto would for Olimar.
@@Orion_Cyanide Twintelle is the second most popular ARMS character. So while I could see a scenario where she gets in if/when we get ARMS 2, I’m not sure if she’ll be prioritized over the #1 most popular character & Yabuki’s favorite (Min Min).
In a perfect world, we get both.
I think Ice Climbers could still be a technical ceiling on how many fighters can you fit on an 8-player match. On the other hand, removing Ice Climbers could make feasible to implement an item so easy to think about that I'm sure they're the responsible for its absence in Ultimate: the Double Cherry.
While watching, I wanted to give my own try at this. I ignored the 3rd Party removal personally, and had to get a bit creative for some picks with the assumption that there'd be potential newcomers to replace some cut picks as my main focus was trying to keep certain unique movesets in with maybe a dash of my own bias (entirely different from this video, I know, but I still wanted to see what I could think of lol) You'll notice weird picks for replacements (Like Dedede is mentioned there), but that's because I started this list just before we began shaving it down to 12 left as I had assumed that's where we were going lol.
__________________________________________
Mario > Ideally with a rework that updates him
DK > Again, hopefully with a rework to update him
Link > In my best case scenario, Link get's an updated moveset and toon or young link keep his old one. either way, Link stays
Samus > Nothing really to add here
Yoshi > Cut & Replace with Cloud (Going down a list here of the last fighters in the vid and how my picks change them)
Kirby > Good boi
Pika > A new Pkmn Trainer so that Pika, Greninja, & Mewtwo all stay as one fighter now. That, or just straight up Pkmn Trainer but I'd rather not cut Pikachu since they're kinda the mascot.
Luigi > Good boi
C. Falcon > Cut & replaced with Sonic (This one hurt to pick lol)
Bowser
Dedede > Cut & replaced with Monster Hunter (It's Byleth, but shh)
Villager > Swap with Isabelle
__________________________________________
12 more I'd personally additionally like to keep in if we didn't limit ourselves to 12. This where my heavy bias starts kicking in
Doc Mario > Has old Mario moveset
Toon/Young Link > Hove them be alternating outfits with the old Link Moveset
C. Falcon > Is a good boi
Shulk > I like Xenoblade
Pyra/Mythra > I really like Xenoblade ok? lol
Pit > I like Pit, plus Dark Pit could be an alternate costume at least
Hero > Gambling man is my main. Plus I'd want to honor Akira Toriyama's legacy some sort of way if I were doing the roster.
Ridley > Solid villain pick
K. Rool > Another solid villain pick
Ganondorf > The last good villain pick. But please for the love of all things unholy and evil for this man, give this dark king a unique moveset
Game & Watch > I like his side special
Marth > I mean, it's Smash, How else we gonna complain about Fire Emblem? lol But really, an FE Rep can't hurt here. Maybe have some of the others be outfits for him like Roy
__________________________________________
All in all, I'd really just rather not cut anyone, but if I were to make such a decision, I think this is how it'd go for me. (It's pretty crappy I know lol but it's my picks at the end of the day)