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Romanced Astarion Reacts to Illithid Transformation (Non-Ascended) | Baldur's Gate 3
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2023
- How non-ascended ("Good") Astarion reacts to you choosing to turn Illithid / Mind Flayer if you're in a romance. I couldn't find any videos of it, so I had to take matters into my own hands.
I know a lot of people are upset that this is his reaction, but honestly this ending does show his growth. He doesn't push his feelings aside and lie to you that things are fine when they aren't. He doesn't hide behind sass or aggressive deflection. He seems to want to find a way to move past this, but he's in a place finally where he can acknowledge that openly. Which in itself also proves that he still trusts you, to be so open.
I love his reactions as well, it's perfectly understandable to not be jumping out of joy when the love of your life becomes an ugly brain eating squid. he still doesn't want to lose you and wants to be close to you, unlike Ascendant who only offers you an alliance and tells you to go away lol (which is also a perfectly reasonable reaction imo 😂).
Ascendant like "You can be my shadow partner. From far away. Communicating by letters or messengers."
@@yensia10 "send me a pigeon from the Underdark if you want to talk to me" lol
Thank youuu. I always felt like Spawn Astarion's reaction to you going full Illithid was actually super loving and understandable given the circumstances lol. And the part where he thanks you for everything you did for him and the world? It's miles away from the Astarion we saw at the start of BG3. It's really touching.
@@amyr9909 ugh I know.. the sweet thank you legit brought me to tears. Neil Newbon did such a great job making Astarion absolutely the best in game character I've ever experienced.
and he deserves a MUCH better ending when you don't ascend him. so much potential for his character growth is there (which ends up being stifled after ascension) but he gets nothing for doing the right thing.. except Tav when you romanced him, of course. it is still beautiful because he found true love, found somebody to love who loves him too but when he's not romanced there's no reason to stop him from ascension. when he doesn't have love at least he has the power he wanted all along...
Astarion would not still love you if you were a worm, and that's valid
There's one version where he does but I don't know what the difference is...
I mean, he does still love you, it's just... Full squid is a lot. Also the fact that he might be in doubt about if it's actually the person he loves or just the tadpole with your memory. He even sounds sad still when you break it off with him. Even sadder when you said you're no longer that person. He said it himself, you mean too much for him to just walk away.
He does still love you, he just isn't comfortable with this new form, because it really ISNT the person he fell in love with. I mean you can possibly love a worm, but you aren't going to want to hug or kiss the worm LOL
I’m laughing so hard
@OneiricVortexah, so him wanting to stay together totally doesn’t happen at all because he apparently doesn’t understand love.
Holy shit Astarion. That’s so healthy of you. Setting boundaries, having a serious mature conversation? He’s being caring and respectful, with no sassy coping mechanisms getting the hold of him, but at the same time, he’s not blindly agreeing to something he’s uncomfortable with (which he is known to do often). That’s so much growth. I’m so proud of this twink I swear
all yall really trying your hardest not to face the fact that he just loves your exterior first and foremost which is cringe as fuck I swear I can’t with astarion fans lmao
@@limbsmith Lol why? I mean, I wouldn’t want to be a tentacle monster either. That goes beyond „just caring for someone’s exterior”, let’s be frank. He doesn’t break up with you when you’re half illithid, or when you get your eye messed up by either Volo or Ethel. But becoming a full on mind flayer is understandably a pretty big deal, especially with how they are viewed in universe. And him learning to say no to you is pretty important lore wise.
Also, his arc is pretty much all about how he’s got sexual trauma and doesn’t want to sleep with you that often. He himself fears you just want him for his looks and/or sex. He actually leaves you if you insist to fuck. He’s a really well written character and a very detailed look into the psychology of an SA survivor (or trauma survivor in general). So yeah, you could say I’m a fan I guess.
@@limbsmith You’re entitled to not like him as a character. But I also feel you’re missing a LOT of the nuances of how he’s been written.
He’s a survivor of pretty much every type of abuse you can imagine, including sexual.
Certain characters comment that Astarion was promiscuous in his past, and this is also a persona Astarion himself often puts on. He’s flirty and often make sexual comments. He compliments your character’s appearance often as well as his own appearance and the appearances of others. It’s true that he is a little arrogant and appearances do matter to him. And when you first meet him, prior to forming an actual romance with him, I think you are right and he does only care about you on a physical level.
But you have to consider why that is. Why is Astarion like that? Is he just a prick? Or does it go a little deeper than that?
SPOILER WARNING:
In Astarion’s past, his skill at seducing was used as a way to trick people into becoming vampire spawn for Cazador, who was severely abusive towards Astarion himself. Sex was almost never about love in Astarion’s past, because it couldn’t be. Even if he did begin to fall in love with someone, Cazador would never let it last, and Astarion knew that all that awaited his partner was a terrible fate…and so he stopped letting himself love that way. It hurt too much. His love is only skin deep because that’s literally all his situation ALLOWED for! Everyone he “loved” was going to end up much worse off than they were before they’d met him. And he expresses multiple times that he feels very guilty about this. He didn’t want to trick all those people. He didn’t want to hurt them. He probably didn’t even want to seduce all of them. But he was made to. When someone faces that sort of abuse, it can be very difficult to allow yourself to love beyond the skin. There’s a lot of fear that something terrible may happen to your partner…or to you. AND there is even a scene you can get in which one of the vampire spawn gets angry at Astarion for seducing/tricking him and Astarion not only remembers his name (Sabastion) but also expresses a lot of guilt and remorse, showing that Sebastian was probably one of the few people Astarion actually did love at one point. And this is exactly why he stopped loving, because now look where Sebastian is? Trapped in a cage as a vampire spawn for hundreds of years. And he understandably now hates Astarion’s guts for it. Furthermore, Astarion admits to having seduced hundreds of people during the 200 years he’s been alive. And it’s likely he didn’t even always find them attractive. It’s likely that he was just forced to seduce people and couldn’t even always choose based on his own preferences.
Is Astarion a bit of a cocky asshole who obviously cares about appearances a lot? And has he done terrible, unforgivable things in his past?
Yes.
But I also completely agree with OP. This rejection IS NOT just Astarion being a prick this time. There are multiple scenes that happen before this one in which Astarion expresses how he does in fact love you beyond your looks. I remember watching a scene in which Astarion says something along the lines of that you’ve surprised him because he’s realized you actually love him deeply, for who he is rather than just for his body, and he’s now feeling a bit confused and even a little upset because he thinks he may feel the same way for you. And obviously he won’t say this part out loud, but the subtext is that he’s afraid to. This is something he hasn’t allowed himself to feel in a long time so the prospect is confusing and scary.
When he rejects you here he sounds genuinely sad (at least in the version where he’s still good/neutral aligned), and he expresses he does love you and appreciate everything you did for him. You helped him to free himself from his abuser, and become his own person. And there is also the subtext that you freed him from feeling as though he had to allow people to use him, or like he had to agree to use himself in ways he never really wanted to be used.
He IS setting a boundary, and that’s big for him. Cazador probably would have forced him to sleep with a mindflayer. And an Astarion who was less healed from his trauma probably would have agreed to stay with you if you had tried hard enough to force it, even if he no longer found you attractive.
Maybe you’re into tentacle stuff, but Astarion is simply not and I personally think that is valid of him. He literally barfs after seeing you turn into one and then eat someone’s brain…I mean…Bro he might even just be scared you might eat HIS brain now? What if you can’t control your urges and crunch his skull one day? Astarion is a vampire, he knows how difficult controlling urges can be. I think that’s another pretty valid reason to break up with someone. And there are also just all the implications of what being a mindflayer now means for you…
Astarion just simply isn’t into it. And it’s clear he still cares for you and always will. He just doesn’t find you attractive anymore.
Idk man. Imo I think he’s super valid here and I do like his character. He’s a cocky little shit who has done some terrible things…but for a reason. He was forced to do a lot of the terrible things he did. And more importantly, he regrets them and is trying to be a better person (if you go the good route with him). I think Astarion truly represents a neutrally aligned character. He’s not exactly all good or all evil even if you pick the good end or the evil end. He can lean one way or another, but really he is just neutral. And there’s a sweet heart underneath it all if you’re willing to really get to know him and show him some kindness.
totally agree. Sometimes you just change in a way that is not compatible anymore with your current partner. Or vice versa. And that's ok, you can still care for each other.
@@pinkdruid2347 yes!
Another important point, besides looks, is this:
Mind flayers are new creatures after killing a host, simply possessing and keeping the host's memory.
the process itself is literally the death of the host, it's repeated many times, the question is asked many times if they have a soul, and Withers says they don't. The very dialogue options of the Protagonist or the Emperor, that they have evolved - meaning they recognize that they are different, just not saying killing,
and Astarion asks, are you still the person I loved, or are you a different being?
In DnD lore, appearance is not a problem, there are magic, illusions and stuff like that.
The question is what is this new creature now, and even so, Astarion says, let's give it a try.
That's a super appropriate response, realistic.
Plus, Astarion himself is chaotic, not a good paladin hero, but not evil either.
He says we need to save Halsin from Orin, Volo from absolute cultists, and a bunch of other situations.
And mind flayers literally eat minds, brains - that is, they kill, and they can't not do it,
whereas vampires just drink blood, they don't have to kill,
and vampirism in dnd can be cured (Gale even has the right item), while illithism cannot be cured, no way, which is also a sign that it's a different creature now.
@limbsmith But, I guess, we are just Astarion fans, of course
I love how... *human* Astarions reactions are. Like he feels. He still loves you just has so many complicated emotions from it all. You can hear in his voice at the end he is on the verge of tears.
He's a vampire, but he's still human. Poor sassy little bitey bean.😢
Fr cuz Neil newborn is a King 👑 of voice acting. You can literally feel the emotions of the character.
If people are mad, then clearly they don’t understand his growth. He’s setting boundaries, and you can’t force him to do something he doesn’t want anymore. I’m glad he makes his own decision, even if it hurts.
That's all well and good, but this just proves his "love" is conditional and people are making excuses for it because they like him.
Conditional love is normal. If you found out someone you were dating was a serial killer, would you still love them? The illithids are considered soulless and vile in the dnd universe. This is basically asking astarion to be ok with you becoming a husk that eats brains.@@kirikakirikakirika
@@kirikakirikakirika imagine you fall in love with a person and suddenly they turn into a squid creature. i don't know about you but i wouldn't be able to picture a future with them anymore
@@bynosaurus4024
Then you don't love that person. You loved them for their looks. Gale, Karlach, and Shadowheart are all fine with it. And with the latest patch, so is Lae'zel. This is nothing more than Astarion being shallow.
@@kirikakirikakirika if you seriously think looks aren't a part of the equation in a relationship, you're naïve. sure, some people don't care, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong to care about looks.
Astarian absolutely kills me
I think our last time to share a kiss was our last chance 💀
I’m gonna start using that line 👀
That catch in his voice when he says "Friends". I can totally understand his hesitation. It speaks volumes about his personal growth that he actively wants to investigate possibilities for the future admits he still loves Tav, he just can't deal with physical intimacy at that moment. Given his issues with intimacy in the recent past, I'm totally unsurprised that he needs time to cope. So freaking proud of our vampire boy.
I know, that got me too. He hates to say it, he stumbles over the word, but he feels the need to be honest and set boundaries. He seems pretty devastated to lose the Tav he'd loved and is terrified they're already gone.... for obvious reasons, he has a lot of reservations trusting what may just be the parasite that killed them (and lore-wise, it is). I feel sorry for him, he seems to be mourning Tav already.
can't really blame him. moreover, it seems to me that when Tav decides to become an illithid, it hits him really hard. I mean that he suffered for two hundred years and no one cared. if he were met by the so-called heroes, they would rather perceive Astarion as a villain than as a person who needs help. it was illithids, not heroes, who saved him from long-term slavery. and when he finds the love of his life on this journey, a companion and an amazing friend - heroism takes that away from him in the end. this is very sad, so I prefer not to select this option. in the end, Tav and even more so Durge (if he resisted the temptations) did enough for the world to give the illithid laurels to the Emperor or to someone who is truly ready and wants to become an illithid for his own sake.
I personally would not be ready to sacrifice someone dear to me in the name of heroism. especially when there are other options and they are far from bad. besides, thoughtless sacrifice of oneself is hardly something that I can call good. for me this is on par with letting Astarion ascend - two sides of the same coin. situations in which you need to guide your loved one and tell him in time to “stop”.
There's a horrible scene if you force Astarion to take the big tadpole and transform, where he admits he's terrified and pretty much begs Tav not to make him do it. After seeing a vid of that scene, I'm very much unsurprised that he needs time when his lover turns into a flayer.
wow, it’s really deep, i really appreciate your reasoning
I'm so freaking proud of him. Learning how to set boundries. Doing what's best for him. Especially mentally. He's grown so much.
He's not setting boundaries, he's just being shallow. His "love" was clearly conditional, and this whole interaction just proves it.
Honestly this is really realistic, he doesnt stop loving you its just not sexual anymore he still cares he still loves you but like you its changed. But still there- its better to wait and see what happens romanticly or lack there of then just waste time of "oh they want me to love them but j cant" and hurting eachother for the same result
Damn😂
I feel bad for Astarion. He really does love you but struggles to overcome his disgust at your transformation.
I don't think disgust is the right word. I think he isn't sure how he feels, he makes it clear it's not a definite "never"
@@DeadAugurI honestly do believe it's disgust, but that doesn't make it any less valid of a response. There may be a better word for it, but disgust probably describes a large chunk of how he's feeling. You go into a relationship based on what you see and have an expectation in your mind that the biggest aspects of why you're with them won't change.
It's not only the apearance, it's also the uncertainty of Tav being themselves anymore. A brain worm that copies your lover isn't really the same as your original lover y'know?
@@DeadAugurit's definitely disgust. Probably not necessarily at the mind flayer but at the actual transformation. I've never seen anyone suddenly turn from a great ape into squidward with his brain bulging out of his head but I imagine it's not something I'd store in my wank bank for later on.
Let's be honest too, if your partner changed into a mind flayer then you'd be put off too. I love my wife but part of that is because she's a woman with skin, blonde hair, tits, arse, fanny, nice legs ect. If she grew a beard I'd be put off in much the same way if I didn't shave my back she would be. I certainly wouldn't blame her for buggering off if I turned into Ivan Ooz from the Power Rangers and nor would I feel particular guilt for leaving her if she suddenly had a shiny purple head like the end of a penis. Call me shallow but I like my women human. You know what I mean? If my wife turned into a dog I wouldn't shag her.
It's not just that, though... You lose your humanity. What is left of who you were will not last forever.
Not me bawling my eyes out when he says "I'll never forget what you did for the world......what you did for *ME*" 😭😭😭😭
I know riiight😭😭😭
I mean... who wouldn't love a braineating humanoid octopus and ride into the sunset with them??
Can't believe there are actually people who are mad at him for his decisions here like WHAT FAIRY TAIL ENDING DID YOU EXCEPT!? 😂😂😂😂
I"m honestly shocked how many people in the forums expected a fairy tale ending for all the companions and Tav. I mean the whole premise of the game is that we're all well and truly f*cked right from act one scene one. We're all on borrowed time. How happy can the endings possibly be?! It was a huge surprise that we got ANY endings that were happier than the endings in DOS:2 lol. I'm about 15 hours away from end of game, and I'll be totally over the moon if I escape with my own skin intact and my Tav's romance still alive. Expectations for my continued ability to maintain a pulse after the final battle are extremely low 😂
well i mean we can all be a little delulu as a treat (i certainly can lol even if i love this ending for showing personal growth, having a mature conversation about his feelings and i actually feel like the fairy tale ending would be really out of character and out of place)
Me. I will take my tentacled illithid husband and go live my best life at ay given day. You know, it's only *logical* to love and mate, it will give the offspring a better chance of survival. That said, I hope they realease an ending where we can go with the Emperor and become his Emperess.
well, it's at least six people in game who's nut enough to make love with mind-flayer and Tav's one of them lol
Apparently, Shadowheart is very open to it.
thank you for this! this is so well put together. it really seems like he already mourns you if you confirm his suspicions that youre truly different now on the inside as well
Satisfying after seeing him ascended
I'm surprised no one has brought up Astarion's reaction at 1:40 so far. While everyone in the party found the scene horrible, only Astarion was sickened to point of gagging (or vomiting).
Something I also want to point out is Mind Flayers are not considered "humanoids" in D&D, they are considered "aberrations." So Astarion would not get the "Happy" buff if he fed on an illithid.
I remember when they used to be more than soulless beings. It sucks they lost alot of suff as the editions changed.
dont worry, theres lots of evidence that they have a soul. one being that there are illithid liches, which means that illithids would have to have a soul to be able to bind to a phylactery in order to become one. in bg3 withers says that illithids dont have souls, but that they might have some sort of equivalent. however, the reason that this changes a lot is because at this point the question of illithids having souls depends on the campaign or dm and what they think is best. @@catandrobbyflores
@lee1564 I started playing back in 3.5 and I remember reading about a female mindflayer in one of the books. She was the example of how to change a creature from evil to good through her life experiences being a slave and being saved by others.
@@catandrobbyflores its probably my favorite change in 3.5 onwards is the change in alignment rules. it makes no sense that a whole race could be just evil lol
@@1011MLE Sorry to burst your bubble, but in D&D lore Mindflayers have always been abberations. And BG3 establishes beyond a doubt that in the game MINDFLAYERS NO LONGER HAVE SOULS or emotions, they only retain memories. Case in point, the Emperor. Withers (who is the god Jergal, god of the dead and souls) _blatantly states this, too._ As does Mystra, if you play as Origin Gale and decide to undergo ceremorphosis into a Mindflayer, then in the final scenes take the Crown of Karsus to Mystra and meet her in the ethereal realm. She offers to restore Gale's "soul and humanity" if he hands over the crown.
There has been a lot of weirdness from various authors in D&D modules or novels over the decades, like demons with souls and whatnot. But BG3 establishes that once an infected host turns into a Mindflayer, the human body is "shed" (literally) and transformed and the soul is gone.
I don't get how some think he just dumps the player after they become an illithid no matter what. That first part made it pretty clear he just needs some time to adjust and figure things out and that's perfectly valid. There are always disguise self spells and I think in time he would eventually come around especially since they could go hunting together now. He gets the blood and the player gets the brain.
Honestly as a trans person the way he reacted reminds me of the complexities of pre-existing relationships when your body is going to be going through changes your partner isn't sure whether they're attracted to. I think Astarion's response is very realistic
@@DeadAugur Except transitioning to a different gender via surgery and hormones = / = becoming a Mindflayer. A mindflayer in D&D and in BG3 is specifically stated to be a Cthulhoid creature WITHOUT A SOUL. The human body of the host is literally "shed" and destroyed. The human soul is gone or even destroyed. The newborn Mindflayer retains the memories, but without emotion.
@TF2CrunchyFrog It's an allegory mane of course there will be differences
@@TF2CrunchyFrog I think, depending on how the transformation took place, the host might retain their "self"?
But how can your partner possibly tell if you're still "in there" or replaced by a parasite that ate your brain?
Nope. In the new epilogue, he makes it clear you're not a couple anymore.
listen, i can't blame him. i screwed the emperor and that's on me, i'm into that, doesn't mean Astarion is 💀 also there's still a chance that he will love you... even when you're a worm
Yeah he still loves you, or at least cares about you deeply. It's just that full squid is really a lot for anyone. Him looking so sad if you say you're no longer that person he loves is heartbreaking.
@@Tamaki742 i teared up ngl 🥲
@@Tamaki742obviously being trans is not very comparable to becoming a mindflayer, but as a trans person the first conversation they had really reminded me of how significant others handle their partner transitioning to a gender they aren't sure they are attracted to, and I thought it was honestly pretty realistic.
@@DeadAugur Thanks for the insight! That's nice honestly. But at the same time, idk. When you transition, you're still you. Full squid is... Some eldritch tadpole talking. In a mini cthulhu body.
@@DeadAugur Glad I'm not the only one who had this thought. It seemed incredibly genuine - which is unsurprising for Larian and the voice actor, but still remarkably thoughtful from a more general outlook. The care they took with so many meaningful yet sensitive topics in this game is kind of special.
Astarion gets the neck while Tav gets the back of the head
That's a helluva couple's dinner
That's a super appropriate response, realistic, and heartbreaking.
The important point, besides looks, is this:
Mind flayers are new creatures after killing a host, simply possessing and keeping the host's memory.
the process itself is literally the death of the host, it's repeated many times, and the question is asked many times if they have a soul, and Withers says they don't. The very dialogue options of the Protagonist or the Emperor, that they have evolved - meaning they recognize that they are different, just not saying killing,
and Astarion asks, are you still the person I loved, or are you a different being?
In DnD lore, appearance is not a problem, there are magic, illusions and stuff like that.
The question is what is this new creature now, and even so, Astarion says, let's give it a try.
Plus, Astarion himself is chaotic, not a good paladin hero, but not evil either.
He says we need to save Halsin from Orin, Volo from absolute cultists, and a bunch of other situations.
I love how he draws the line at a whole new species 😂 the ugly black vines on the face, he is fine. And I think that's sweet. His reactions are so reasonable
Astarion is a better person than me. When I tried the half-Illithid thing and black veins appeared on my character, I noped and reloaded.
I am so happy abut his growth, he is true to Tav, dosent hide in his usual witty ways.. and when he said "Thank you" It... it do feel so sincere. He is willing to work things out after all what happend.
I feel like the words he say like I'll never forget the person you were/wat you did for me - it sounds almost like he's speaking at a funeral ;-;
In a way he is, and in the 3rd option while their are the same lines you can notice strong sadness is his face and voice, because after all, the person he loved is already gone as stated by the dialog, that may be also why he is not looking at you on the eye and kind of looking at the distance, because you are bit there anyway.
It's extremely valid to not know if you're into this, like is the ilithid even tav? Or just a new creature with the old memories? Fuck knows.
I'm personally just really curious if you go into like a character creator when you transform so that you can customize exactly what you look like in Ithilid form... If there isn't and there's just a default Ithilid form they put you in I'm less likely to choose it. Lmaoo
From the little lore I have gathered, when the ceremorphosis completes, the old person dies along with their soul and a new Illithid is born with it's own soul. Since they use the brain of the original person, they have their memories and I would guess some of their personality, but the moment Tav (or Durge) accepted to be turned into a Mind Flayer they essentially were replaced.
@@AnxietyRat That form is defaul from what I have seen.
@@AnxietyRat nope
@@RockoEstalon Ugh....that's disappointing. 😒
People who think that the companions should accept mindflayers as their lovers have zero idea how mindflayers work. You literally lose yourself piece by piece more and more until you're a new person that just happens to have their memories. You may as well have stopped being Tav and became a new character. The Emperor absolutely isn't Baldur anymore, just a Mindflayer with Baldurs memories that is trying to keep a hold of its own freedom.
Hey, out of curiosity whats your source for this? I just entered act 3, will this be mentioned in detail in game later on? Or is this info from older games or...?
I certainly didn't know about it before, so I'm a bit surprised by that.
The Emperor says so to you in a side quest that I won't spoil. I think it also depends on your conversation choices with him too.@@stripedrakun
Even if that weren't the case. As a trans person, if you are in a romantic relationship and your appearance is going through drastic changes, it is entirely normal and fair for your partner to need to take a step back and figure out if they are compatible with the new you. It doesn't mean they don't care or they don't still love you but sometimes it does mean going your separate ways and that's ok.
@@JudasRose Yeah... kind of not comparable seeing as how one is always a human being and the other is literally changed into an alien Eldritch horror 😆
@pinkminipuff Oh I disagree. Becoming a hideous monster with a tendency to predate upon the innocent is rather fitting.
It's sad but makes sense and it's good for Astarion in the end, Illithid Tav, as a mindflayer, would do away with Astarion as soon as he didn't fit their design. Like Mindflayers and love and a regular life are just not compatible. He's dealt with enough.
That's....Honestly its very open ended, but the way i take it is that
Whoever transforms is still that person, like, its still the memories and feelings and opinions and all because that transformation was a special case
By never being in contact with the opression of the great design, by never being in contact with the hive mind one can keep their individuality, so you wont turn full Plotting Scheming evil
_But_
It stll carries with it a change
Because though your brain still works the same way, it still changed, you have new senses, you can do things no other human can, even your experiences with mortality changed now, you were completelly ripped from the human experience and placed on a whole new alien perspective of the world around you
That doesn't mean evil
But that does mean _different_
Withers(jergal the og death god that granted the power to dead 3) confirms that lilithids are soulless at the end of the game
@@cen3684 yes but I'm Petry neither do vampires?
@@cen3684I mean, you also slowly transformed rather than the immediate one. Not only that, Tav seems to keep their memories of their non illithid self. The emperor even gives you a special tadpole, so who's to say it wasn't modified to try and preserve the memories, personality, and soul of Tav? I mean, you could argue that half of Tav's soul is destroyed if you accept his first tadpole, and you become half illithid
@@cen3684 Withers specifies "apostolic souls" later in the same dialogue, meaning souls the gods can interact with. The phrasing alone implies non-apostolic souls may exist. Not to mention mindflayers have been shown in afterlives and can even become petitioners and liches. There is literal canon proof they have at least something resembling a soul. I think the remaining souls of regular mindflayers not implanted with non-special tadpoles are almost non-existent however, and it would be rare to see a regular one retain its past transgressions and personality.
i don't know how people can hate on him for this, it is unbelievably heartfelt & it would be an adjustment for anyone, considering this is way after withers tells you mindflayers have no soul. & he's wary, but still willing to try to make something work between he & the mc, be it love or a deep friendship, & he seems legitimately sad if the mc does take the choice to decide to end it. i honestly think it would be utterly unrealistic for anyone to not be wary after such a change, (let alone someone with astarion's issues surrounding bodily autonomy, & after he himself chose to keep his soul by not ascending) & he still says thanks the mc says he loves them multiple times, & he honestly sounds like he wants to try, but he's truthful enough to admit that it will take some time. this is 1 of the most honest moments we see from him, & i can't hate on him for it (though of course, in my run i didn't choose to change, but my points still stand)
At the point in the game where you must decide whether to consume the ancient tadpole or not, he tells you "I want you to stay you".
I think from that point it was clear that this would end like this.
It is a little sad, but it's also kind of funny imo. He's like "I love you so much....but also you're a horrible squid monster now, and I'm not into tentacle stuff. Sorry".
One of the endings I never want but I love the evident character growth here. Setting and honoring his boundaries
i think it ties up well with the kinds of things he approves of during the game, like, it’s not that he’s a psycho doing anything only for personal gain or enjoyment, but he’s not about the hero act, saving everyone sacrificing yourself in the process. i guess now that he loves the mc he’d be willing to put them first, but the mc is not willing to choose astarion and their relationship, to make it number one priority. it might seem like that to him, that you could choose him and keep things as they were or choose to be a hero for everyone else…
I saw allot of people complaining about his reaction to this but now that I've seen it.....Honestly, this is probably the most realistic reaction you could expect. You can tell he's heartbroken if you go through with it despite him trying his best to convince you not to (while still respecting and admiring you for your decision🥺), which is totally understandable. If my partner turned into an Illithid irl, there's just no way I'd sleep with him or even kiss him anymore (I mean how would that even work indeed). Of course I'd still love him platonically (unless the person he once was is completely gone), but I'm not going to have an intimate relationship with a completely different species like that. It's too much like an actual animal/alien. I know the whole 'I will love you no matter what you look like' thing is romantic and all, but is it really crazy to draw the line when that person literally turns into a completely different species? Come on yall, this is about as sweet and genuine of a reaction you can get from someone who isn't freaky enough to be into tentacle seggs.😅
I do like that he is being honest about his feelings and not lying just to make someone else happy. I can definitely understand why he feels this way but it did deter me from making the sacrifice. Poor Orpheus.
i wouldn't have loved my SO if they were a worm as well so i get him
I'd love them, but I'm not getting freak nasty with a worm
It's so valid. A mind flayer looks so cold, alien, menacing.. All the lust in the relationship is gone, and yet he still wants to stay with you, he truly loves Tav even though it's incredibly challenging for him to adjust to their new form.
Guys this is Astarion trying to adjust to you being a worm, if he doesn’t love you that’s fine you are a worm, but if he does that’s fine too but the important thing is that you let him pick if he will love you as a worm. He still cares about worm you it’s not like he throws you out and spits on you, he just needs time to think and that’s valid.
Would never consider this option, so thanks for recording it - wow, my he has grown so much: true sadness and setting boundaries and being honest...
Kinda sad but also cute, and omg the response at 2:11 is freaking hilarious and so perfectly Astarion 😂
Actually cheering loudly about this. He friendzoned you!!! That's actually fucking huge! He trusts you enough and has grown enough to set his own boundaries!!!!!!!!!! ! ! ! You don't get to really see that in action in ANY other variant of his story!
@JudasRose ok bro I get it has negative connotations because of asshole white guys but technically speaking it literally just means choosing to stay platonic with somebody. That's what he did, he broke off the romance, I didn't mean it in a bad or entitled way.
If your affinity is super high or max, he stays with u regardless, which frankly is kind of sad for me. He ignores his discomfort and chooses to love you blindly regardless of whether its still you or not.
I think this is the healthiest response. He holds a mature, civil conversation with you to figure out your future together. Hes not judging you. This is also not a breakup scene unless u pick the last option. Unless you say its no longer you, he is willing to give it a try. He states he still loves and cares for you deeply, and youre too important for him to ever leave you.
Basically: he doesnt understand how the relationship would work between them now and is confused, he needs time to figure out how romance works between a brain worm and a spawn, this is not a break up (or there wont be an option to “part ways”), this is just a healthy discussion not him being discriminatory or hateful. He is willing to learn and try with tav.
Astarion expressing his feelings and being a supportive partner.. And people question why my standards are so high.
His reactions are so heartfelt and sad. Thank you for your sacrifice. I could never do this.
Astarion has so right reaction of this shit, i love him
I love that he's still kinda ok with this. Like you have the face of a squid and he's all like "Let's see if we can make this work. See where it goes."
Like, my god man.
I totally understand Astarion and feel very proud of him, but goddamn I feel bad for Tav 🙏😭
Saving the world, basically sacrificing your body to this appearance AND being left by your lover at the end(If he doesn't get used to their new looks)
Honestly… same. Squid face aside, he trusts Tav with making the right choice but he also won’t force himself into something he’s not sure about
People are mad that he loses his physical attraction to you? We look like Cthulhu and you expect him to still be attracted to us? Lmao
Funny to me how in my interaction, Gale (ex-lover) was the one to protest and request a private chat before deciding, instead of Halsin (current lover), when both were with me. Astarion (also ex-lover LOL I HAVE A PROBLEM) still disapproved of volunteering when I spoke to him.
The character that asks for a chat on the side is actually the character who's portrait is under your player character (Tav).
@@westybestieaaaah that would make sense then! Thanks for the info! :)
ima be real. If the love of my life turned into a squid i probably would break up with them too, especially since they CHOSE to do it. like for real?
*slaps Astarion* "It IS you!"
I still remember his response if you tell him you're no longer the person you were................
3:31 “Is the person I loved still in there?”
Yes. She still there she may looked like Davy Jones rn but she still the person you loved😂
Nope. It's not her anymore. There's plenty of others comments in this section that will explains why it isn't Tav anymore.
@@so_rebi954 yes but as a player who’s playing as tav the one who make choices to romance him. Yes she still the same lol
Dawg there’s no way I can become a mind flayer. I’m almost done with my game and I can’t lose my man like this lmao
Considering everything everyone went through with the mind flayers i think its a little naive or selfish to think Astarion would stay eith you after you agree to become one. Thats like going back and dating someone who experimented on you and put something life altering in you
I don’t blame him honestly, if my lover turned into a soulless sticky tentacle monster, i’d break up with them too
So you're brraking up with because I'm... too squid-like? 😂
silly Astarion, shapeshifting spells are still on the table
this is just an illusion, tentacles and slime will remain to the touch
nerd
@@whitecat4209 I mean when you bang Empy he gives you the option of a "form you're more familiar with" when you say you can't find his mouth. So I imagine it is more like the spell Alter Self rather than Disguise self
@@rebaa2175Yeah and even before you romance the Emperor you can grab his hand, hug him etc. His touch in the guardian form feels the same like the touch of a ''normal person'' had it been weird and slimy i'm sure it would've been noticed by our Tav lol.
@@whitecat4209If it is an illusion why can you use it to fit through small holes?
well thank you for posting that cause i'm never becoming a space squid even to save the world
Gods this is heartbreaking 😭😭
"this is a lot" LOL no kidding!
6:06-6:36 Oh my god, literally a knife to my heart. I hadn't seen that version yet.
to be honest if my parthner became this I would break up too
His ass would NOT still love you if you were a worm 😭😭
This makes me sad, cause I can hear pain in his voice. Ivan tell he is hurting. :(
I AM NOT BECOMING AN ILLITHID
I am unhealthy in love with this character TT of course if he was real there's like no chance but, I find it hard to love actual characters that I don't make. But I've become attached to this character, Astarion, and now I find myself tearing up at hearing him say in his own way, his goodbyes. Saying thank you to the player for their help, and it actually hurts a little. I hate that, especially because he's not real and he's a jerk anyways. Why are humans so complicated and dumb??
The game seems to forget that the mindflayer isn't the host; it's the tadpole, having gobbled up some of the host's memories and personality quirks.
I can imagine Neil's face when he hears what he's voicing. X3
"would you still love me if i were a worm"
sounds like a new Lana Del Rey's song 😄
I've to come to terms with my "grey" sexuality recently and in some ways, I feel like a mind flayer (and indeed pursued that path on my main). My spouse is very much like Astarion, focused on sex and sensuality, in his jokes, his desires, his identity. This conversation has started happening more and more to us as the years go by. This was both sweet but also painful to watch.
My main ended up with the Emperor but had forged a close friendship with Astarion.
Honestly, probably what I should have done, but I'm not a psionic squid. Real life is far messier. Plus, you know, I didn't know at the time when I met him. I just always knew I was "different" than other people, but I just needed to find the right person to somehow unlock a constant interest in sex.
Honestly, I get it Astarion. Again, consequences to your actions player. Stay pretty, hate Casador. Seemed easy enough. I guess not for all.
"Stay pretty, hate Cazador". I love that, it's like the ultimate quide to becoming Astarion's love interest in the most simple of terms.🤣🤣🤣👌👌👌
Let me tell you; Astarion is willing to stay your best friend and find love within you again even after transforming. He is willing to be by your side for as long as it takes and even if he doesn’t find love in the ‘new you’ he still will be there for you. He cares for you and loves you even if it isn’t romantic love.
❤
Heartbreaking
I honestlycan see why he would reject her, it happens iRL, people change and sometimes love cant keep up with that, good for him.
I didn’t do it. I mean, a good partner thinks of their relationship and that your decision has consequences for your partner, too. It’s rather immature to do the transformation and think that the partner will go with whatever. Love is consideration and responsibility
I put myself into my characters shoes in two play throughs so far. Both didn’t do it, they stayed as they are and gave them a healthy ending. No matter what the reaction would have been. Refusing was their way of thinking of their partner. Set aside, after how the Emperor fucked with us (not literally) the whole time, i would be disgusted to become what they are. ^^
So yeah , first character, even if Gale would have accepted it, refused and Karlach became the Mindflayer, willingly. My second dodged a situation like this with Astarion (and Halsin), because Opheus became the Mindflayer :D
NO DON'T END ON THE SADDEST ONE T_T
When I just transformed and see that Astarion don’t want “kiss” me (for me it was like the end of our relationship)… I press f8 and choose other way😊
Can’t loose true romance with him. Even if it damaged Laezel story (I haven’t Karlach with me to save Orpheus)
i’m so sad. this is my first play through and i have something to say… first of all, i like how bg3 has totally destroyed my stereotypes. i was like: alright i will sacrifice myself to save the world. i really thought it was for good… and maybe it is indeed, but when freeing orpheus and turning to a mind-flayer you actually lose more than, like, yourself. you automatically turning into a monster for others and even if you do everything to save the world ppl in this universe be like: okay MAYBE your sacrifice may outweigh your sins 🤨🤨 but it’s not for sure. my point here is that this was quite unexpected, at leat for me. maybe i’m just not familiar enough with the lore (actually bg3 was my first dnd game), i’m going to research. it seems that illithids indeed soulless so i just have to come to terms with it. the fact that mindflyers consume brains, and that there is a possibility that you will eat one of the companions during the reunion… i just wanted to believe that everyone deserves the chance just like astarion and other spawns what i freed do, but apparently this is not the case. sad but true lol i’m going to cry about it. maybe the game just teaches me that sacrificing yourself isn’t always brings the glory and justice.
the other way how it breaks my stereotypes is this one, the romance with astarion. just like i wanted to believe in good ending in general, i wanted to believe in the triumph of love above everything else. lol i’m so silly, i’d really thought that there’s such an opportunity. don’t get me wrong, considering all the facts astarion did the right thing. but i just. can’t. get. over. it. i feel disillusioned.
for now the best option for the illithid ending is to end yourself (but i don’t like the fact that as a player i cant discover the fate of companions in this option) or go to the hell with karlach, at least my poor girl can benefit from it lol
i must note that some, however, treat you well (or pretend). like gale or wyll. gale invites illithid tav to lecture for his apprentices and wyll says that their sacrifice would not be forgotten… but i’ll count it as pretending, still. it’s good of you guys, really, i appreciate, but please don’t
Can you use shapeshifting spells when in mind flayer form? That'd pretty much solve the problems
bruh. first time i got to this part with astarion in my party and romanced he didnt say shit about me turning into a mindflayer and i never regretted and save scummed a decision so hard once I got to the last scene w him
Doesnt it depend also on your approval rating too. Had maxed out approval rating, Idk he was very sweet with my Tav and assured that he loved Tav no matter how they look on the outside and wanted to continue to be together.
Did you only do half-illithid? I just replayed the ending again today with max approval (using Cheat Engine) from Astarion and he says the exact same thing as the video. Full illithid is a lot for him. Half-illithid doesn't have... tentacles...
That was prior to the recent patch. In the old version Spawn-Astarion put on a brave face and said he would try to adjust to the change. And it always felt wrong to me that Spawn-Astarion would be forever shackled to an abberation pretending to be Tav, esp as Astarion had not been asked about it beforehand. Yes, he still loves Tav... or the person Tav used to be. Even Withers says he is uncertain how long a transformed player character (if you play Tav or an an Origin) would retain their human personality. but a mindflayer does not truly have emotions, or a soul.
@@TF2CrunchyFrogdoes the scene post recent patch change from what is shown here in the video?
Does he still says he wanna try, like in this video, or has it been removed? 🤔
The strange thing is that... Your romance accepts it. You die. Astarion doesn't reprimand anything, he just withdraws gently,
I'm curious now what happens during the epilogue party. Is there a video of that somewhere?
Astarion would not love you if you were a worm 😂
And this is why I can't become an illithid. I choose Astarion over everything. Plus, I don't wanna he a squid alien anyway.
It’s sad because we let him (and the others) down by turning into something we were fighting against in the first place. He still loves you, but lost respect for you because you gave up and chose to turn into something you worked hard to leas people against.
I have a question. I hear illithids lose their souls after transforming. has any mortal, god or whoever ever tried creating a new soul for one? is it even possible in DnD for something like a greater god to forge a brand new soul and tether it to a previously soulless body?
Spoiler for if you intend to play as Gale:
Mystra claims to be able to restore your soul and humanity, if you choose to become a mindflayer, but you have to become her chosen in Elysium, the plane of good.
These comments are so misled. He's not "setting boundaries". This isn't "growth". It's just proof that Astarion's love was entirely conditional. You make the ultimate sacrifice to save the world, meanwhile he implies you're ugly, no longer yourself, and friend zones you. If gale or Karlach or any of the other companions did this, no one would be making these excuses.
Illithids aren't their human hosts though? They're abberations that consume their host, Withers calls mindflayers soulless. It's not just a case of being grossed out by tentacles and brain eating (which, you must admit, is a lot in itself lol)
@@Justdeadlythings
Withers says during the final battle that Tav can be trusted, and if they self exit at the end of the game, they go to the Fugue Planes and are met by Withers, who admits they have a soul and he's surprised by it. The narrator also says you may be a new breed of illithid, never before seen. Yes, eating brains is a lot, but if someone actually care to work on it, an alternative could be found. In fact, magic could easily be used to feed illithid Tav.
@kirikakirikakirika I haven't seen that, very cool! I'm glad Ilithid TAV isn't doomed
🧛🏻+🦑= 💔
I think its odd that hes against the transformation when he was the one party member that was encouraging me to use the tabpole. On one hand I'm happy that he' s putting up boundaries but on the other i feel like the person that got turned into something else (vampire) would be a little less disgusted when you turn. I understand his feelings though. I feel Tav would be heartbroken though if they can' t get back together after everything they gave up. Heros offen end up with nothing in the end.
Thank you for this video, now i know what not to do
ever
I need his set of clothes
your tav kinda looks like mitski? am i the only one seeing that?
Astarion as a King of the Vampires will be in couple with Ithillid Power. They both are souless... but were humans....
And people think it’s only his ascendant version 😂
He’s superficial no matter what. But can’t say I’d be comfortable either. Like the emperor thing in my game was only for achievement, I’d have to have a pro illithid character get fully drunk on power and swayed to actually make that choice legitamantly. And in my opinion that scene with the empower was to encourage you to become fully illithid.
Damn auto correct and can’t edit in mobile browser. But you got the message
Where do I get these cool outfits wtf
I think people are upset cause he said he would still love u if u were a worm lol
Well, he still loves the person you _were._ He just makes it clear he is no longer into a physical relationship with a brain-eating soulless abberation. Which is his damn right to chose.
how do you get a scene where you are talking with each other? after the final battle i didn't have nothing like that
Are you taking about the scene that begins at 3:16? You need to be in an active romantic relationship with a party member (e.g. Astarion, Shadowheart etc.) for it to appear. If they never confessed to you or if they broke up with you at some point, you won't get this scene after the final battle.
It's also possible your game is bugged, but hopefully you're not that unlucky...
What if you just always use disguise person?
On my play through he still wanted to be with me
HP Love❤️🩹🐙🧝🏼♀️❤️🩹Craftin Love. How can a Vampyre love soo much, (squiddy)🥺🤕
Sorry not trying to be Squidest, just Uh¿?
😶🌫️🙌🏻---👀 Cannot fathom...
Does not compute, does not phst💥☹️