Here is the thing, DB characters have been using Ki control to focus their power down into small areas for a VERY long time. That said, GT did an absolute TERRIBLE job of depicting the power that they should actually be capable of. It absolutely does fee like they tried to reset and lower the power scaling in GT, in order to make it reasonable. But that is pretty par the course, as GT basically just tosses most everything previously established to the wayside. I mean, the final villain of GT is the dragon balls themselves, you know, the ones that cannot be more powerful than the entity that created them. So, I guess Dende is the second most powerful entity in the universe, shy of Gogeta.
I can't get behind that since villains wouldn't care to use ki control and if they would then for someone like the rage monster that is Brody it wouldn't work at all
@@jacobwest7 I would disagree. Radditz and Vegeta were looking to take the planet to sell it/look for dragon Balls to gain immortality. Destroying the planet would fail on both those points (yet Vegeta still attempted it in desperation.). Frieza is looking to rule the universe. Destroying what he wants to rule completely defeats the purpose. Cell is looking for a challenge to prove his perfection, so destroying everything doesn't accomplish that in anyway, shy of using the threat of planetary destruction to get the heroes to push themselves as hard as possible. Buu is looking for enjoyment in causing terror and destruction. Sure, he would get that to some extent by taking out planets/galaxies/the universe, but it would be one and done, then he wouldn't be able to enjoy it anymore, so it makes sense that he would savor the destruction. We know why Beerus doesn't destroy everything. Frieza is the same point in his return trip as with the first one. Zamasu legitimately wants everything to exist, he just doesn't want the mortals to be inhabiting things. So again, destroying everything goes against his plan. Brolly, though he is a rage monster, its a focused rage. He is focusing his rage on one particular target, in order to cause as much damage as possible to that target. This concept does apply to all of the above as well, but the concept of pressure is more than enough reason for the villains to use ki control to focus down their power. The smaller the area that you focus down force, the more pressure is created, and pressure is the actual destructive aspect of force. IE, if you have a 2 mile wide beach, the waves lapping on the shore are barely going to be noticeable to a person walking along the shore. However, if you take that same amount of water, and force it through a 1 inch gap at the same rate, you suddenly have a stream of water that can cut through steel like its tissue paper. Ultimately it boils down to this. Either Ki control focusing energy is a thing, or you have to somehow rationalize the fact that Master Roshi in original Dragon Ball would be capable of killing the most powerful fighters in the tournament of power, since they are all taking damage from hits that are not even city block level in area of effect, and Roshi was capable of literally blowing up the moon.
@@ikeillue8385 it could be some sort of mixture of both or cinematic effect, in modern movies we see superman fighting and we can clearly see him throwing punches even though if he was using a percent of his power we wouldn't be able to. Especially for the top where most characters can't fly so there isn't anything anchoring them when they take a punch, jiren himself would be launched by even ssj vegeta (I know jiren levitate when meditating but it's never been done to catch himself) since it's kinda the equivalent of punching a 200 lb dude and the same for why goku isn't eliminated by attacks from other characters. It's a work of fiction so there are some things we have to just be cool with
@@jacobwest7 Sure, cinematic time is a thing which allows us to follow along with things that would happen literally in less than a blink of an eye. But that doesn't explain how these TOP characters are getting damaged by things that aren't even encompassing the area of a city block, yet we literally watch Master Roshi vaporize the moon. So that means the tournament of power characters drastically weaker than original Dragon Ball master Roshi. Obviously that is utter nonsense, but without the concept of ki control, there really isn't any other solution, other than just putting blinders on, and ignoring the things that we don't like.
While I'm not a big power scaling fan, as a writer, you still need to make it logical and clear to your audience. I've always thought Goku having the line that Rilldo was stronger than Buu was kind of a mistake, considering some of it could be handwaved away by saying Goku got slightly nerfed by getting turned into a kid, but in all honesty, I feel GT has a lot of the same problems some of the Z filler had: It feels like the writers aren't communicating with each other from episode to episode, and as you said, they really aren't putting the power here on display.
Glad somebody said this. For some reason people think power scaling is either A. Each punch much be quantifiable or B. Anyone can beat anyone at anytime. GT constantly had statements of “HES NOW 104829572957x STRONGER NOW” and then just showing a building falling down. Everyone just gets random power ups but it’s never put into any sort of perspective.
My feelings for GT are complex... I like the essence of GT more than Super, it has the DNA of pre-Buu saga Dragon ball in it, while Super very much has the same disjointed "wrongness" in it that I felt a lot in the Buu saga. It's hard to explain, and isn't just down to writing, the gags or fight scenes... 🤔 I like Super's highs more than GT's highs though.
@@Rykiz_Vidz maybe... But I don't think so. If it was the grittiness, then the Buu saga had it in spades, and the artstyle of GT is far closer to the Buu saga than Super is. I think it's a lot of small little bits and pieces that add up, rather than any one thing.
In super they can apparently destroy universes by puncing yet somehow when they fight barely a city gets destroyed (Goku Black Arc) Dragon Ball has always been super inconsistent with its power scaling, and I think its more due to Toriyama not really caring how many planets or galaxies someone can blow up. We havnt actually seen any feats more impressive than planetary since the freeza saga.
That is because of ki control. Even back in original Dragon Ball that was a thing. Roshi was already powerful enough to vaporize the moon, yet battles weren't even destroying city blocks. Its because they focus the power of their attacks down into small areas, in order to decrease collateral damage, as well as increase pressure on the intended target. Your point on not seeing impressive feats is also not quite accurate. The clash in the BOG arc, released shockwaves that were seen and felt, multiple universes away. Even if we ignore all the context that tells us that the entire universe was going to be destroyed, as well as assume the macrocosm is actually only 1 universe, that is still a high multi galaxy level feat.
I think the stupidest thing about GT (and there is a lot of stupid shit in that show) is Vegeta being like "Bulma, I need moar blutz waves!". It's so out of character for the proud prince of all saiyans to rely on a wave generator to have a fighting chance.
I totally understand what you mean. When I was making a recut of GT, one of the main things I did was remove power level statements (Rildo > Buu and Uub > Goten, Gohan, and Trunks combined) to make it feel less underwhelming. I find it hard to believe Rildo is stronger than even the weakest form of Buu. And the writers could never decide on how much they wanted to nerf kid Goku. I remember reading a statement where they said they felt Goku was too strong (hence why he's a kid now), but guidebooks and even the show implies Goku is the same (or almost the same) as his adult self in terms of power. Yet, he struggles to do Instant Transmission or Super Saiyan 3 (which he already struggled with in Z). Another nitpick is how incompetent Goku can be in GT at times. People complain about Super Goku getting shot by a laser, but Goku lets his guard down repeatedly against Eis and Omega Shenron and gets frozen at least 3 times for it. One last thing I have to say is that GT's pacing is pretty awful, even for Dragon Ball (ironic given it's the shortest series). There is so much you can cut out that my recut is only 26 episodes long. I cut out Super 17 completely lmao. I think I made the other arcs more reasonably paced. Black Star Dragon Ball - 6 episodes Baby - 12 episodes Shadow Dragons - 5 episodes Hero's Legacy (+ Episode 64) - 3 episodes
Well gt scales absurdly high but that requires watch in Japanese and using supplementary material, like guides that aren’t mistranslated , like a great example is people saying gogeta is dozens of times a super Saiyan four but it actually says his finger is and that’s not to mention an insane statement Akira Toriyama said about the Z anime that doesn’t scale to super, but would apply to GT that makes it absurd.with that being said I do agree while I wouldn’t compare the final flash, which is pretty dramatic by Z standards in its presentation, and later is caught by a cell Junior, thrown down on the earth and doesn’t really do much of anything and I would compare Goku’s final explosion to the vegeta’s. GT does largely not give proper representation too. It’s attacks.
I could make a whole video about how both DBS and GT lost the narratives with their power scaling, but it basically boils down to Z and OG being able to comfortably show that scaling with concrete displays of power. We see King Piccolo destroy cities, so hearing Vegeta say that he can destroy the whole earth isn’t a big stretch given how much stronger than King Piccolo Vegeta was. By seeing 1st form Frieza hurl a sun at planet Vegeta with a flick of his wrist, we can gauge in our minds just how powerful 100% 4th form Frieza is, even without knowing the exact numbers. Seeing a stronger mecha Frieza get chumped by Trunks allows us to imagine how much stronger the Androids are. This puts Cell’s power into perspective when those Androids are surpassed by both him and the Super Saiyans, absorbed by Cell, and then we know how unbelievably powerful SSJ2 Gohan must be to dwarf him. Majin Buu, as you mentioned, is a casual planet destroyer and is even confirmed to be a destroyer of entire galaxies. Let’s not even get into Super Buu warping dimensions by screaming and even threatening to collapse the universe by screaming his lungs out after absorbing Gohan. When the peak of Z’s power is already universal, how do you display the power of GT and Super without our villains casually destroying all we’ve been fighting for in the blink of an eye? We don’t get the same displays of casual mass destruction like with Frieza and Buu because in order to effectively communicate that power, you need to show someone like Goku Black destroying an alternate universe (which is coincidentally not his goal since he only wants mortals dead).
Tbh, it’s ironic that you hate on a scene like SSJ4 Goku using the Final Explosion, and saying it should look more destructive/powerful, sure, but then again, SSJ2 Majin Vegeta using the Final Explosion looked no different, and Hell, SSJBE Vegeta using the Final Explosion looked weaker then the 2. Hating on GTs Scaling aswell, is also dumb, as people look over other DB Scaling like Buu Saga and more so Super in general, hell people say GT has bad Scaling, yet there’s mountains of issues something like DBS has. Tbh, this whole Video was pretty much just hating on GT for things that people should be hating on DBS for aswell.
Ssj2 majin vegeta was the first time the final explosion was ever used it’s the default. Goku is 2 forms and more than a decade ahead of vegeta, it shouldn’t look the same. As for the TOP, vegeta very specifically wasn’t going all out. He could have easily engulfed the whole area if he did which would of knocked out goku and the fact it didn’t kill hin is proof. GT goku straight up intended to die. This was all out. No holding back. The only reason he didn’t die was some BS from S17. You can complain a lot about super, but showing scale is always been something it’s good at. In the very first arc goku and beerus are destroying the universe on accident.
@@boneman9751 and? Still doesn’t change the fact that 1: Vegeta was using the Final Explosion on an enemy that’s far greater then Fat Buu, and 2: it still looks weaker then the first 2 Final Explosions... Also, there’s by far a lot of things you can complain about with Super, and it’s Scaling is by far one of the biggest issues lol 😂 The whole Goku Black Saga in general, has by far the worse Power Scaling in DB, not to mention that the Goku Black Saga is pretty much 1 big Filler Episode, Frieza in general, the ToP Saga is full of stupid Scaling and random buffs, Jiren is just strong for plot, as he’s literally just a boring nothing burger of a character, that has zero personality, and he’s literally just there so there’s a threat in the ToP, and so Goku can get UI, and so Toppo ain’t the Antagonist, even though Toppo would’ve been 100x better then Jiren, Roshi and Android 17s Scaling is worse then the Scaling I would’ve made when I was 5 playing with legos, and SSJB in general looks, smells and feels like their just a literal fart in the wind... And a lot more... Super ain’t no different, hell, GT has better Scaling then Super ever will.
@@SuperKamiGuruu Animation and fight wise, sure, but that makes Super no where better then GT... Scaling wise and literally everything else.... Super is ass lmao 🤣 DBS Goku is a joke, DBS Vegeta has to redo his Character Development, Super is the same show where it has everyone, even Roshi, being able to drag a BoGs SSG Goku... with little to no real training, the Villains are ether boring or not important, and the Goku Black Saga is a Filler Saga that you can skip lol 😂 GT has better Scaling that’s more consistent, and in general, story lmao 🤣
Bro showing insecurity about a show to the levels of someone who got rejected.
2 месяца назад+1
That is what I kinda like about super. Has many problems, but excluding brolly, you can see the main cast doing everything they can to prevent earth being hit (like on moro arc we see goku atacking up to the sky because even his punchs make the clouds be apart). Even black, the only one who really tried to destroy everything, he succeded.
1:33 - 3:12 Not at all. Cells Games had combatants with solar system destructive powers and they limited the damage to a small square in the dessert. SSB Son Goku vs Golden Freiza both had universal destructive powers and limited the damage to an ocean cliff side. Fighters in Dragon Ball know how to control their powers to only cause the damage they want with minimal side destruction. When Beerus first fought God Goku, the universe would be destroyed before Goku learn to control and limit his new unfamiliar power. And Buu wanted to destroyed those planets. It wasn't a side effect of a fight. The same when Golden Freiza blew up Earth. It blew up very quick because he wanted it.
I get that but what reason did Baby, Omega, Super 17, etc. Have to spare the cities let alone the planet? Im sure none of them would care if the earth missed a continent or two after the fight lol
@@ijudgeanime I think it has more to with how none of those, except Shenron and Great Ape Baby because he loses his mind, wanted to destroy they wanted to rule, and Shenron did destroy most of Earth if I recall correctly. I haven't seen it in a good while but I remember they fought Shenron in ruins of a destroyed city and Goku asked good Shenron, as a parting wish, to resurrect the people of Earth because it and they got f u ck e d over hard. And they would naturally want their attacks to hit Goku and friends. The underwhelmingness of power displays in Dragon Ball has a lot more to do with lingeringness. Whenever you think of those powerful displays, you tend to think of those that have a lot of build up. The examples you used: Final Flash and Goku's Final Explosion. Vegeta spend a lot of time gathering energy. It had lighting flying around with the screen and nearby area shaking. The same with Vegeta's Final Explosion; he spend long time gathering energy while the whole area is affected, even Majin Buu was a floppy jelly belly. But this doesn't happen with Goku's, he gathers some energy without affecting the area - until the explosion of cause - and it doesn't take long for the energy to gather either. One of the many reasons why I hate Super Saiyan Blue is that it feels extremely underwhelming. It's supposed to have more power than the universe but it uses a calm blue colour instead of the firery red of Super Saiyan God (calm control vs unstable passion). Blue also doesn't do anything visual other forms couldn't do. The coolest stuff Goku Blue did was putting Kaioken onto it to make blue feel powerful but that has more to do with Kaioken and how we know that it's a powerful and dangerous technique. SSJ3 and Ultra Instinct are perfect examples of how you can FEEL power. Goku screams and powers up for over 4 literal minutes while all spectators are being overwhelmed by the pure power, all while the whole planet is literally shaking apart to become SSJ3. That's power that you can see and feel; you know it's powerful as all hell without having to destroy anything. UI is another way it show power: When Goku transforms, a whole galaxy appears under his feet that he breathes in. And it disappears instantly as he destroys the previously untouchable Jiren's enormous attack in an instant. And what follows is complete domination of Jiren - no talking, no screaming just dominance. Very similar to SSJ2 Gohan or SSJ4 Goku's first appearance but more so for Gohan. I wish they lingered on stuff more. The transformation took a long time for the first 4 Super Saiyan transformations which helped emphasise their power especially when it was follow by complete dominance.
Baby had actual followers, him not destroying Earth makes sense. While I agree that the power scaling was very weird in GT. Like Goku struggling against random jobbers like Mutchy made no sense. As far as I know Machine Mutants don't have any niche magic technique, so yeah that was weird. Most fights were garbage in GT (except the Goku vs Ledgic one). They should've focused on the space adventure aspect and develop Present Trunks and Pan as characters, I actually liked that aspect of GT. But then it just tried to mimic Z and fell completely flat.
Yeah, that's a common point between GT and Super. Although it feels like it's for different reasons, GT's lack of visual power looks like production constraints (to be fair, the whole thing just looks pretty cheaply produced) while for Super it looks like the art direction is just way too geared towards kids.
I just prefer GT over Super, as it had better writing, better villians, SS4 was a more unique transformation, and GT progressed the character development from Z, not regressed like Super did to Goku and Vegeta.
Its a fiction thing, the same reason why in superman movies when he throws a punch its at normal speed. In the cell saga they were throwing missed ounches and kicks and areas were taking damage from the draft of the hits. Scale ssj 3 up and it should destroy much more than that
GTs Scaling is pretty bad sure, but tbh, yall are acting like it’s the worst in all of DB. It’s pretty ironic that people shit on GTs Scaling, yet they act like Supers ain’t as shit aswell. Both GT and Super have the worst Scaling in all of DB.
@@_DatDaft_how is GT’s scaling horrendous? As far as I know I never saw GT try to make master roshi a reliable relevant character again. In fact, they replaced all of the human characters as they truly couldn’t keep up anymore with the saiyans. Now you have people like Roshi doing off screen training to compete in a universal level tournament in super, when back in Z, a character like Raditz would be considered a god level threat to him.
@@sov3cd when did I say it was “horrendous”??? I said that GT had pretty bad Scaling, but then I went onto say, the Scaling that people shit on from GT, is as shit as Supers Scaling... DBS Roshi being a good example sure, but then you got Majuub in GT, he’s the complete opposite of DBS Roshi. Majuub started out with more potential and power then Kid Buu, absorbed Fat Buu, becoming Majuub, was built up to be one of the most powerful characters in GT, as he was able to almost go tow to tow with Super Baby 2, who was the reason for SSJ4s introduction, but then in the next Saga, he’s not even stronger then a SSJ Vegeta.... where Roshi was by far the weakest Earthling that’s apart of the Z Fighters, DBS rolls around, does little to no training, yet that got him above Tien and probably Krillain, hell Krillain ain’t any better aswell, as Tien trains 24/7, hell Tien trains almost as much as Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo do, but then Krillain does nothing, only once and a while training when 18 forces him to, and Roshi sits there watching TV, does 5 push-ups once and a while, and gets stronger by doing so....
@@_DatDaft_ majuub was definitely wasted potential as well as ultimate Gohan, neither of them made a difference due to them hyping up ss4 so much. Super Baby was immediately outclassed once ss4 was introduced. Not even his golden oozaru form stood a chance but yes I agree, uub deserved better
After all these years if you're still hating on dragonball GT, it just makes you look ignorant. Whether you like it or not, GT will always be a part of the dragonball universe as a whole. Theres a reason why Toei continues to put GT character's above eveyone esle in Heroes,Dokkan and all of the promotional material. It's not going anywhere.
I mean its part of the franchise but it's not canon anymore and not a toriyama work so it's fair for people to not like it. Now saying theres absolutely nothing good about it is insane but as a whole saying it's bad or you dont like it is valid. things can have good aspects, characters ideas etc and still be bad in various other ways.
That's a very bad comment. We don't need to intend for a thing to go out of existence in order to criticize it. The past is the past, and we can't change it, but we still look back to the things that happened and evaluate them. Why would a person criticize Dragon Ball GT even though it won't make the series disappear? Because the fans of a franchise enjoy talking about it, sometimes even when it's to point out its flaws; because Dragon Ball is still going on (as well as other, similar pieces of media) and we don't want mistakes like those of GT's to reappear; and because other people seem to pretend there aren't problems that are clearly there, and we may not want such misconceptions to continue (either because we are passionate about the topic or because these people annoy us). Calling people ignorant anchored on very weak reasons is, itself, quite ignorant. I won't claim such a level of ignorance is a consistent trait of yours, though, since it would be an overly hasty judgement based on a limited experience.
My way of looking at power acaling in super and gt goes something like this: Gt sucked at powerscaling, super just threw the entire concept of power scaling out of the window
I'm talking outta my ass here but I remember reading an interview from the makers of GT and I remember something being stated alon the lines of: Z got too much out of hand and was only really a beam show off and not anymore about martial arts and they wanted to bring martial arts back to dragon ball with GT. I don't have any sources but I swear I've read something like that
None of the villains in GT, or Super for that matter, are supposed to be stronger than Kid Buu. >Buu was an universe ending threat that not even Goku could beat, he had to use the universal genki dama with the energy of literally every living being in existence to kill him. >Baby is just as strong as Osaru Super Saiyan Vegeta, the strongest person he could possess. >Super 17 is just an upgrade over 17; the writers just made Goku incredibly dumb and over reliant on ki blasts on that arc to justify him as a threat. >And the Dragons can't be stronger than their creator, in this case Piccolo. The problem isn't the scaling, it is the bad writing and the corporate mandate to make new transformations. If GT had stayed with just SS3 there wouldn't have been a scaling problem to begin with. GT would still be a mess, but it would at least be somewhat consistent with the power levels of Z.
SS4 Gogeta is literally the king of the db games, GT will always be a part of the dragonball as a whole. Theres a reason why Toei continues to put GT character's above everyone else in Heroes, Dokkan and all of the promotional material. It's not going anywhere.
Whats your thoughts on scaling a character to another character? For me I'm a little mix, in one hand, I understand it helps give character some proof on how strong they are, like scaling Vegeta to Goku makes sense. But other times, it can be confusing and unreliable, especially when characters comes from stories with different versions like Marvel or DC comics, like do you expect me to believe Wolverine can beat Thor, also there Mortal Kombat messy story mode. Either way,I'm curious on your thoughts on this subject?
It depends on whether its an actual feat or not. Here is what I mean. I'm sure there are stories where Wolverine has beaten Thor before. Wolverine accomplished the feat of beating Thor. You can't argue it, because it happened. However, as you pointed out, there are multiple different versions of the characters. So, a version of Wolverine who hasn't fought Thor can't be scaled to above Thor, because he doesn't have the feat. They may both be Wolverine, but they are not the same character, and don't have the same feats.
@@ikeillue8385It feels like we went from saying how strong a character is to now it being all about "feats". This character is X strong compared to this character destroyed X and did X in this scene.
@@missyummy1040 I think it really depends on multiple factors. Battle experience, overall power ofc, techniques, personality, etc. There is more to a fight then just fighting imo
@@Rykiz_Vidz To be fair, feats are what actually matter when it comes to power scaling. Statements can be hyperbolic, and therefore aren't objective. The real issue is when the writers use power scaling as a crutch for lack of story. Essentially, instead of writing a good story with compelling characters, they just make the characters more powerful, and the stakes greater. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with increasing character power and increasing stakes. The problem is when it becomes "instead" as compared to "and."
"GT power scaling was whack!" DBS Frieza in RoF: Guess I'll train off screen for 10 seconds and leap frog over Perfect Cell and Buuhan in terms of power DBS Goku in ToP: Guess I'll just keep fighting despite getting beat up a lot and losing a lot of stamina like I'm an android. You have no room to talk about GT's scaling being "whack" when Super was far worse.
@@windows98alpha35 Oh nah I aint ever gonna let that bs frieza pulled go lmao. That was some straight us ass copium writing. GT sucked at scaling but Super is not far behind for sure
The power scaling is the only things I don't like. It doesn't make sense. I also don't think Baby was naturally as strong as Buu. He gained his strength through his host and boosted it.
I guess a bit far into Namek Saga . Gameplay-wise they'd be overwhelming the Z fighters at the stupid amount of skills , teqniques and weapons . Don't think the Spardas would survive against beam attacks and death balls though .
@@burgezdoestuff8578 Saiyan arc Vegeta can destroy a planet with one finger, king Vegeta destroyed multiple planets from lifting his cape a little bit. DMC characters aren't even reaching the Namek arc.
Hot take gt is better than super supers powerscaling was bs and only thing that was good was all the tourneys including the tournament of power and the one between 7th and 6th and they were good due to ui mui ssjssjg evolved and vegito and fused cauliflowers (ik the name i just want to call them that) + dont you understand every power beam is hit at a strong character that absorbs it idk how to explain it well but ki is kind of like water a ki user is somehow like a sponge and so its absorbed so pls stop with the cope :)
I would argue that the powerscaling in both series are awful, but in opposite ways. GT just ignores the established power scaling, and just does its own thing, but even within the confines of GT, its still inconsistent and nonsensical. On the other hand, Super does try to keep the established power scaling in mind, but they end up going overboard with it, skyrocketing the scaling of everyone and everything to absolutely insane levels of absolutely no reason.
@@ikeillue8385 to that point I agree but when it comes to the basics of ki it's kinda not whack but I agree powerscaling was awfull in both but let's not forget every series wasn't meant to be a power scaling show so let's all enjoy the shows we love I'm sorry for any anger in my previous comment
@LAYON916 I meant power scaling wise not show wise that was the talking point of the video not which show was better they both sucked and neither 1 can compare to OGBD and Z
I would argue that they are just as BS, just in the opposite way. GT ignores the established power scaling of the series, while Super went massively overboard with them. I know its subjective, but I would disagree with GT being better. Don't get me wrong, Super is not good, but its not nearly as painful to sit through as GT is. Also, and this is probably a hot take too, the best moments in GT hit the level of passable, while the best moments in Super are actually some of the best in the series (though there are very few moments that get to that level.). I know that is a really hot take, so I'll just point out one scene to make my point. Leading up to the tournament of power, Goku goes to get Frieza, and starts shadow boxing in the ring while waiting. At surface level its just Goku shadow boxing. Who cares, right? However, if you actually look, you will see that the moves Goku makes exactly mimic his fight with Grandpa Gohan, when they fought all the way back in original Dragon Ball. The depth there, the love of the franchise, the fact that they didn't deem it necessary to ham fist what they were doing, its such a good scene, as short and simple as it is.
NPC #57 that watched DBS with his eyes closed says what? And GT is worse just because of the Super 17 arc. Sucks from beginning to end. And I liked GT, even before it became all trendy to after DBS ended
Thats interesting. Not many people would say that something that has been intertwined to deeply in Dragon Ball for almost the entirety of its existence, would be the worst thing. I'm not arguing against you, I just find you stance very interesting. Personally, I look at it in the fact that most series don't even bother trying to give an in universe reason for the inconsistencies between the big feats, and the general combat, so I applaud them for at least trying to address that issue.
@ikeillue8385 it's mostly because all these quote all out attack like the 1 depicted in the video of vegeta holding back in his kamikaze attack against fat buu , well the broly movie/super hero making character with mindless attacks that would reasonably be universal plus technical just blowing up the planet casual or low angle beam clashes . Ki control makes these attacks and characters inconsistent .now if dbz was more of a marshal arts series instead of a beam fest it's wouldn't be much of an issue
@@blankblank6214 You are confusing concepts. They aren't holding back, they are controlling the energy. By focusing the area of energy release, you aren't reducing the amount of energy, you are aiming it, forcing all of the energy into one smaller point, instead of allowing it to spread out into a much larger area.
@ikeillue8385 not really I'm say it's inconsistencies like there is no reason earth shouldn't have blown up after brolys bezerker rage if he is a planet buster in base or vegetas suicide attack it may be condensing energy but a blast still needs a detination to dissipate that energy as ki control was the explanation on how they could throw out solar system busting attack but not blow up a planet when they miss
@@blankblank6214 There is a reason though. Brolly may be a berzerker, but his rage is still focused on one single target, so he is focusing all his power into that small area. And with Vegeta's suicide attack, he is still focusing all that power into that small area. Its not that the energy is condensed. Its that the force being released is being focused into a small area. I mean, that is literally a concept that is used with modern day technology, without super human techniques.
![Yeat & Summrs - GO2WORK [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NEFEwfPcXRA/mqdefault.jpg)
Here is the thing, DB characters have been using Ki control to focus their power down into small areas for a VERY long time. That said, GT did an absolute TERRIBLE job of depicting the power that they should actually be capable of. It absolutely does fee like they tried to reset and lower the power scaling in GT, in order to make it reasonable. But that is pretty par the course, as GT basically just tosses most everything previously established to the wayside. I mean, the final villain of GT is the dragon balls themselves, you know, the ones that cannot be more powerful than the entity that created them. So, I guess Dende is the second most powerful entity in the universe, shy of Gogeta.
Yeah its prob just horrible visual representaion like i said. They did them so bad
I can't get behind that since villains wouldn't care to use ki control and if they would then for someone like the rage monster that is Brody it wouldn't work at all
@@jacobwest7 I would disagree. Radditz and Vegeta were looking to take the planet to sell it/look for dragon Balls to gain immortality. Destroying the planet would fail on both those points (yet Vegeta still attempted it in desperation.).
Frieza is looking to rule the universe. Destroying what he wants to rule completely defeats the purpose.
Cell is looking for a challenge to prove his perfection, so destroying everything doesn't accomplish that in anyway, shy of using the threat of planetary destruction to get the heroes to push themselves as hard as possible.
Buu is looking for enjoyment in causing terror and destruction. Sure, he would get that to some extent by taking out planets/galaxies/the universe, but it would be one and done, then he wouldn't be able to enjoy it anymore, so it makes sense that he would savor the destruction.
We know why Beerus doesn't destroy everything.
Frieza is the same point in his return trip as with the first one.
Zamasu legitimately wants everything to exist, he just doesn't want the mortals to be inhabiting things. So again, destroying everything goes against his plan.
Brolly, though he is a rage monster, its a focused rage. He is focusing his rage on one particular target, in order to cause as much damage as possible to that target. This concept does apply to all of the above as well, but the concept of pressure is more than enough reason for the villains to use ki control to focus down their power. The smaller the area that you focus down force, the more pressure is created, and pressure is the actual destructive aspect of force. IE, if you have a 2 mile wide beach, the waves lapping on the shore are barely going to be noticeable to a person walking along the shore. However, if you take that same amount of water, and force it through a 1 inch gap at the same rate, you suddenly have a stream of water that can cut through steel like its tissue paper.
Ultimately it boils down to this. Either Ki control focusing energy is a thing, or you have to somehow rationalize the fact that Master Roshi in original Dragon Ball would be capable of killing the most powerful fighters in the tournament of power, since they are all taking damage from hits that are not even city block level in area of effect, and Roshi was capable of literally blowing up the moon.
@@ikeillue8385 it could be some sort of mixture of both or cinematic effect, in modern movies we see superman fighting and we can clearly see him throwing punches even though if he was using a percent of his power we wouldn't be able to. Especially for the top where most characters can't fly so there isn't anything anchoring them when they take a punch, jiren himself would be launched by even ssj vegeta (I know jiren levitate when meditating but it's never been done to catch himself) since it's kinda the equivalent of punching a 200 lb dude and the same for why goku isn't eliminated by attacks from other characters. It's a work of fiction so there are some things we have to just be cool with
@@jacobwest7 Sure, cinematic time is a thing which allows us to follow along with things that would happen literally in less than a blink of an eye. But that doesn't explain how these TOP characters are getting damaged by things that aren't even encompassing the area of a city block, yet we literally watch Master Roshi vaporize the moon. So that means the tournament of power characters drastically weaker than original Dragon Ball master Roshi. Obviously that is utter nonsense, but without the concept of ki control, there really isn't any other solution, other than just putting blinders on, and ignoring the things that we don't like.
While I'm not a big power scaling fan, as a writer, you still need to make it logical and clear to your audience. I've always thought Goku having the line that Rilldo was stronger than Buu was kind of a mistake, considering some of it could be handwaved away by saying Goku got slightly nerfed by getting turned into a kid, but in all honesty, I feel GT has a lot of the same problems some of the Z filler had: It feels like the writers aren't communicating with each other from episode to episode, and as you said, they really aren't putting the power here on display.
Yeah that sounds pretty damn accurate. I just had this massive feeling of disconnect whilst watching GT for these reasons exactly
Glad somebody said this. For some reason people think power scaling is either A. Each punch much be quantifiable or B. Anyone can beat anyone at anytime. GT constantly had statements of “HES NOW 104829572957x STRONGER NOW” and then just showing a building falling down. Everyone just gets random power ups but it’s never put into any sort of perspective.
My feelings for GT are complex...
I like the essence of GT more than Super, it has the DNA of pre-Buu saga Dragon ball in it, while Super very much has the same disjointed "wrongness" in it that I felt a lot in the Buu saga.
It's hard to explain, and isn't just down to writing, the gags or fight scenes... 🤔
I like Super's highs more than GT's highs though.
I think what you are trying to say is like the 'grittiness' maybe or that like 90s animation and writing feeling of Dbz and GT.
@@Rykiz_Vidz maybe... But I don't think so.
If it was the grittiness, then the Buu saga had it in spades, and the artstyle of GT is far closer to the Buu saga than Super is.
I think it's a lot of small little bits and pieces that add up, rather than any one thing.
I think if they cut a lot of garbage out of GT (like Super 17 or just fix the overall pacing), it would be remembered more fondly.
@@buutama3527The whole story of GT needs a rewrite, it's just terrible and poorly executed.
In super they can apparently destroy universes by puncing yet somehow when they fight barely a city gets destroyed (Goku Black Arc)
Dragon Ball has always been super inconsistent with its power scaling, and I think its more due to Toriyama not really caring how many planets or galaxies someone can blow up. We havnt actually seen any feats more impressive than planetary since the freeza saga.
That is because of ki control. Even back in original Dragon Ball that was a thing. Roshi was already powerful enough to vaporize the moon, yet battles weren't even destroying city blocks. Its because they focus the power of their attacks down into small areas, in order to decrease collateral damage, as well as increase pressure on the intended target.
Your point on not seeing impressive feats is also not quite accurate. The clash in the BOG arc, released shockwaves that were seen and felt, multiple universes away. Even if we ignore all the context that tells us that the entire universe was going to be destroyed, as well as assume the macrocosm is actually only 1 universe, that is still a high multi galaxy level feat.
I think the stupidest thing about GT (and there is a lot of stupid shit in that show) is Vegeta being like "Bulma, I need moar blutz waves!". It's so out of character for the proud prince of all saiyans to rely on a wave generator to have a fighting chance.
I totally understand what you mean. When I was making a recut of GT, one of the main things I did was remove power level statements (Rildo > Buu and Uub > Goten, Gohan, and Trunks combined) to make it feel less underwhelming. I find it hard to believe Rildo is stronger than even the weakest form of Buu. And the writers could never decide on how much they wanted to nerf kid Goku. I remember reading a statement where they said they felt Goku was too strong (hence why he's a kid now), but guidebooks and even the show implies Goku is the same (or almost the same) as his adult self in terms of power. Yet, he struggles to do Instant Transmission or Super Saiyan 3 (which he already struggled with in Z).
Another nitpick is how incompetent Goku can be in GT at times. People complain about Super Goku getting shot by a laser, but Goku lets his guard down repeatedly against Eis and Omega Shenron and gets frozen at least 3 times for it. One last thing I have to say is that GT's pacing is pretty awful, even for Dragon Ball (ironic given it's the shortest series). There is so much you can cut out that my recut is only 26 episodes long. I cut out Super 17 completely lmao. I think I made the other arcs more reasonably paced.
Black Star Dragon Ball - 6 episodes
Baby - 12 episodes
Shadow Dragons - 5 episodes
Hero's Legacy (+ Episode 64) - 3 episodes
@@buutama3527 Yeah your comment is spot on man. I just could not prcess the choices they made
Well gt scales absurdly high but that requires watch in Japanese and using supplementary material, like guides that aren’t mistranslated , like a great example is people saying gogeta is dozens of times a super Saiyan four but it actually says his finger is and that’s not to mention an insane statement Akira Toriyama said about the Z anime that doesn’t scale to super, but would apply to GT that makes it absurd.with that being said I do agree while I wouldn’t compare the final flash, which is pretty dramatic by Z standards in its presentation, and later is caught by a cell Junior, thrown down on the earth and doesn’t really do much of anything and I would compare Goku’s final explosion to the vegeta’s. GT does largely not give proper representation too. It’s attacks.
I could make a whole video about how both DBS and GT lost the narratives with their power scaling, but it basically boils down to Z and OG being able to comfortably show that scaling with concrete displays of power.
We see King Piccolo destroy cities, so hearing Vegeta say that he can destroy the whole earth isn’t a big stretch given how much stronger than King Piccolo Vegeta was.
By seeing 1st form Frieza hurl a sun at planet Vegeta with a flick of his wrist, we can gauge in our minds just how powerful 100% 4th form Frieza is, even without knowing the exact numbers.
Seeing a stronger mecha Frieza get chumped by Trunks allows us to imagine how much stronger the Androids are. This puts Cell’s power into perspective when those Androids are surpassed by both him and the Super Saiyans, absorbed by Cell, and then we know how unbelievably powerful SSJ2 Gohan must be to dwarf him.
Majin Buu, as you mentioned, is a casual planet destroyer and is even confirmed to be a destroyer of entire galaxies. Let’s not even get into Super Buu warping dimensions by screaming and even threatening to collapse the universe by screaming his lungs out after absorbing Gohan.
When the peak of Z’s power is already universal, how do you display the power of GT and Super without our villains casually destroying all we’ve been fighting for in the blink of an eye? We don’t get the same displays of casual mass destruction like with Frieza and Buu because in order to effectively communicate that power, you need to show someone like Goku Black destroying an alternate universe (which is coincidentally not his goal since he only wants mortals dead).
Tbh, it’s ironic that you hate on a scene like SSJ4 Goku using the Final Explosion, and saying it should look more destructive/powerful, sure, but then again, SSJ2 Majin Vegeta using the Final Explosion looked no different, and Hell, SSJBE Vegeta using the Final Explosion looked weaker then the 2.
Hating on GTs Scaling aswell, is also dumb, as people look over other DB Scaling like Buu Saga and more so Super in general, hell people say GT has bad Scaling, yet there’s mountains of issues something like DBS has.
Tbh, this whole Video was pretty much just hating on GT for things that people should be hating on DBS for aswell.
Ssj2 majin vegeta was the first time the final explosion was ever used it’s the default. Goku is 2 forms and more than a decade ahead of vegeta, it shouldn’t look the same. As for the TOP, vegeta very specifically wasn’t going all out. He could have easily engulfed the whole area if he did which would of knocked out goku and the fact it didn’t kill hin is proof.
GT goku straight up intended to die. This was all out. No holding back. The only reason he didn’t die was some BS from S17.
You can complain a lot about super, but showing scale is always been something it’s good at. In the very first arc goku and beerus are destroying the universe on accident.
@@boneman9751 and? Still doesn’t change the fact that 1: Vegeta was using the Final Explosion on an enemy that’s far greater then Fat Buu, and 2: it still looks weaker then the first 2 Final Explosions...
Also, there’s by far a lot of things you can complain about with Super, and it’s Scaling is by far one of the biggest issues lol 😂
The whole Goku Black Saga in general, has by far the worse Power Scaling in DB, not to mention that the Goku Black Saga is pretty much 1 big Filler Episode, Frieza in general, the ToP Saga is full of stupid Scaling and random buffs, Jiren is just strong for plot, as he’s literally just a boring nothing burger of a character, that has zero personality, and he’s literally just there so there’s a threat in the ToP, and so Goku can get UI, and so Toppo ain’t the Antagonist, even though Toppo would’ve been 100x better then Jiren, Roshi and Android 17s Scaling is worse then the Scaling I would’ve made when I was 5 playing with legos, and SSJB in general looks, smells and feels like their just a literal fart in the wind...
And a lot more...
Super ain’t no different, hell, GT has better Scaling then Super ever will.
Super looks VASTLY more impressive in comparison to GT lol
@@SuperKamiGuruu Animation and fight wise, sure, but that makes Super no where better then GT...
Scaling wise and literally everything else.... Super is ass lmao 🤣
DBS Goku is a joke, DBS Vegeta has to redo his Character Development, Super is the same show where it has everyone, even Roshi, being able to drag a BoGs SSG Goku... with little to no real training, the Villains are ether boring or not important, and the Goku Black Saga is a Filler Saga that you can skip lol 😂
GT has better Scaling that’s more consistent, and in general, story lmao 🤣
Bro showing insecurity about a show to the levels of someone who got rejected.
That is what I kinda like about super. Has many problems, but excluding brolly, you can see the main cast doing everything they can to prevent earth being hit (like on moro arc we see goku atacking up to the sky because even his punchs make the clouds be apart). Even black, the only one who really tried to destroy everything, he succeded.
1:33 - 3:12 Not at all. Cells Games had combatants with solar system destructive powers and they limited the damage to a small square in the dessert. SSB Son Goku vs Golden Freiza both had universal destructive powers and limited the damage to an ocean cliff side. Fighters in Dragon Ball know how to control their powers to only cause the damage they want with minimal side destruction. When Beerus first fought God Goku, the universe would be destroyed before Goku learn to control and limit his new unfamiliar power. And Buu wanted to destroyed those planets. It wasn't a side effect of a fight. The same when Golden Freiza blew up Earth. It blew up very quick because he wanted it.
I get that but what reason did Baby, Omega, Super 17, etc. Have to spare the cities let alone the planet? Im sure none of them would care if the earth missed a continent or two after the fight lol
@@ijudgeanime I think it has more to with how none of those, except Shenron and Great Ape Baby because he loses his mind, wanted to destroy they wanted to rule, and Shenron did destroy most of Earth if I recall correctly. I haven't seen it in a good while but I remember they fought Shenron in ruins of a destroyed city and Goku asked good Shenron, as a parting wish, to resurrect the people of Earth because it and they got f u ck e d over hard. And they would naturally want their attacks to hit Goku and friends.
The underwhelmingness of power displays in Dragon Ball has a lot more to do with lingeringness. Whenever you think of those powerful displays, you tend to think of those that have a lot of build up. The examples you used: Final Flash and Goku's Final Explosion. Vegeta spend a lot of time gathering energy. It had lighting flying around with the screen and nearby area shaking. The same with Vegeta's Final Explosion; he spend long time gathering energy while the whole area is affected, even Majin Buu was a floppy jelly belly. But this doesn't happen with Goku's, he gathers some energy without affecting the area - until the explosion of cause - and it doesn't take long for the energy to gather either.
One of the many reasons why I hate Super Saiyan Blue is that it feels extremely underwhelming. It's supposed to have more power than the universe but it uses a calm blue colour instead of the firery red of Super Saiyan God (calm control vs unstable passion). Blue also doesn't do anything visual other forms couldn't do. The coolest stuff Goku Blue did was putting Kaioken onto it to make blue feel powerful but that has more to do with Kaioken and how we know that it's a powerful and dangerous technique.
SSJ3 and Ultra Instinct are perfect examples of how you can FEEL power. Goku screams and powers up for over 4 literal minutes while all spectators are being overwhelmed by the pure power, all while the whole planet is literally shaking apart to become SSJ3. That's power that you can see and feel; you know it's powerful as all hell without having to destroy anything.
UI is another way it show power: When Goku transforms, a whole galaxy appears under his feet that he breathes in. And it disappears instantly as he destroys the previously untouchable Jiren's enormous attack in an instant. And what follows is complete domination of Jiren - no talking, no screaming just dominance. Very similar to SSJ2 Gohan or SSJ4 Goku's first appearance but more so for Gohan. I wish they lingered on stuff more. The transformation took a long time for the first 4 Super Saiyan transformations which helped emphasise their power especially when it was follow by complete dominance.
Baby had actual followers, him not destroying Earth makes sense. While I agree that the power scaling was very weird in GT. Like Goku struggling against random jobbers like Mutchy made no sense. As far as I know Machine Mutants don't have any niche magic technique, so yeah that was weird. Most fights were garbage in GT (except the Goku vs Ledgic one). They should've focused on the space adventure aspect and develop Present Trunks and Pan as characters, I actually liked that aspect of GT. But then it just tried to mimic Z and fell completely flat.
Yeah, that's a common point between GT and Super.
Although it feels like it's for different reasons, GT's lack of visual power looks like production constraints (to be fair, the whole thing just looks pretty cheaply produced) while for Super it looks like the art direction is just way too geared towards kids.
I just prefer GT over Super, as it had better writing, better villians, SS4 was a more unique transformation, and GT progressed the character development from Z, not regressed like Super did to Goku and Vegeta.
It’s 2024 time to stop hating GT . People literally admit they love the designs , characters and story but hate GT
@@MEMNONZ I mean GT does have its flaws for sure but so does every dragon ball ip. GT was pretty fun to watch to me at least
Its a fiction thing, the same reason why in superman movies when he throws a punch its at normal speed. In the cell saga they were throwing missed ounches and kicks and areas were taking damage from the draft of the hits. Scale ssj 3 up and it should destroy much more than that
People saying cope in the comments as they cope about GT. I like GT, but let's be honest guys. The power scaling in GT is absolutely horrendous.
@@shua_the_great yeah gt had some great concepts, but the way they depicted the power stuff was just god awfull
GTs Scaling is pretty bad sure, but tbh, yall are acting like it’s the worst in all of DB.
It’s pretty ironic that people shit on GTs Scaling, yet they act like Supers ain’t as shit aswell.
Both GT and Super have the worst Scaling in all of DB.
@@_DatDaft_how is GT’s scaling horrendous? As far as I know I never saw GT try to make master roshi a reliable relevant character again. In fact, they replaced all of the human characters as they truly couldn’t keep up anymore with the saiyans. Now you have people like Roshi doing off screen training to compete in a universal level tournament in super, when back in Z, a character like Raditz would be considered a god level threat to him.
@@sov3cd when did I say it was “horrendous”???
I said that GT had pretty bad Scaling, but then I went onto say, the Scaling that people shit on from GT, is as shit as Supers Scaling...
DBS Roshi being a good example sure, but then you got Majuub in GT, he’s the complete opposite of DBS Roshi.
Majuub started out with more potential and power then Kid Buu, absorbed Fat Buu, becoming Majuub, was built up to be one of the most powerful characters in GT, as he was able to almost go tow to tow with Super Baby 2, who was the reason for SSJ4s introduction, but then in the next Saga, he’s not even stronger then a SSJ Vegeta.... where Roshi was by far the weakest Earthling that’s apart of the Z Fighters, DBS rolls around, does little to no training, yet that got him above Tien and probably Krillain, hell Krillain ain’t any better aswell, as Tien trains 24/7, hell Tien trains almost as much as Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo do, but then Krillain does nothing, only once and a while training when 18 forces him to, and Roshi sits there watching TV, does 5 push-ups once and a while, and gets stronger by doing so....
@@_DatDaft_ majuub was definitely wasted potential as well as ultimate Gohan, neither of them made a difference due to them hyping up ss4 so much. Super Baby was immediately outclassed once ss4 was introduced. Not even his golden oozaru form stood a chance but yes I agree, uub deserved better
Y’all forgot they can teleport, read minds, ect
After all these years if you're still hating on dragonball GT, it just makes you look ignorant. Whether you like it or not, GT will always be a part of the dragonball universe as a whole. Theres a reason why Toei continues to put GT character's above eveyone esle in Heroes,Dokkan and all of the promotional material. It's not going anywhere.
I mean its part of the franchise but it's not canon anymore and not a toriyama work so it's fair for people to not like it.
Now saying theres absolutely nothing good about it is insane but as a whole saying it's bad or you dont like it is valid.
things can have good aspects, characters ideas etc and still be bad in various other ways.
I liked GT before it was trendy. I'm still going to hate on the goddamn Super 17 arc as I please
Bio-Broly will also always be a part of the Dragon Ball universe as a whole, so I guess that is a flawless movie that is 100% immune to criticism.
That's a very bad comment. We don't need to intend for a thing to go out of existence in order to criticize it. The past is the past, and we can't change it, but we still look back to the things that happened and evaluate them. Why would a person criticize Dragon Ball GT even though it won't make the series disappear? Because the fans of a franchise enjoy talking about it, sometimes even when it's to point out its flaws; because Dragon Ball is still going on (as well as other, similar pieces of media) and we don't want mistakes like those of GT's to reappear; and because other people seem to pretend there aren't problems that are clearly there, and we may not want such misconceptions to continue (either because we are passionate about the topic or because these people annoy us).
Calling people ignorant anchored on very weak reasons is, itself, quite ignorant. I won't claim such a level of ignorance is a consistent trait of yours, though, since it would be an overly hasty judgement based on a limited experience.
You are coping!
In super they can apparently destroy universes by puncing yet somehow when they fight barely a city gets destroyed (Goku Black Arc)
Super's powerscaling became GT levels of trash after a while.
My way of looking at power acaling in super and gt goes something like this: Gt sucked at powerscaling, super just threw the entire concept of power scaling out of the window
Only in the manga, not anime
I'm talking outta my ass here but I remember reading an interview from the makers of GT and I remember something being stated alon the lines of: Z got too much out of hand and was only really a beam show off and not anymore about martial arts and they wanted to bring martial arts back to dragon ball with GT. I don't have any sources but I swear I've read something like that
@@bobincognito Damn I never came across that article but it would sure explain some shit lol
None of the villains in GT, or Super for that matter, are supposed to be stronger than Kid Buu.
>Buu was an universe ending threat that not even Goku could beat, he had to use the universal genki dama with the energy of literally every living being in existence to kill him.
>Baby is just as strong as Osaru Super Saiyan Vegeta, the strongest person he could possess.
>Super 17 is just an upgrade over 17; the writers just made Goku incredibly dumb and over reliant on ki blasts on that arc to justify him as a threat.
>And the Dragons can't be stronger than their creator, in this case Piccolo.
The problem isn't the scaling, it is the bad writing and the corporate mandate to make new transformations. If GT had stayed with just SS3 there wouldn't have been a scaling problem to begin with. GT would still be a mess, but it would at least be somewhat consistent with the power levels of Z.
SS4 Gogeta is literally the king of the db games, GT will always be a part of the dragonball as a whole. Theres a reason why Toei continues to put GT character's above everyone else in Heroes, Dokkan and all of the promotional material. It's not going anywhere.
Whats your thoughts on scaling a character to another character?
For me I'm a little mix, in one hand, I understand it helps give character some proof on how strong they are, like scaling Vegeta to Goku makes sense.
But other times, it can be confusing and unreliable, especially when characters comes from stories with different versions like Marvel or DC comics, like do you expect me to believe Wolverine can beat Thor, also there Mortal Kombat messy story mode.
Either way,I'm curious on your thoughts on this subject?
It depends on whether its an actual feat or not. Here is what I mean. I'm sure there are stories where Wolverine has beaten Thor before. Wolverine accomplished the feat of beating Thor. You can't argue it, because it happened. However, as you pointed out, there are multiple different versions of the characters. So, a version of Wolverine who hasn't fought Thor can't be scaled to above Thor, because he doesn't have the feat. They may both be Wolverine, but they are not the same character, and don't have the same feats.
@@ikeillue8385It feels like we went from saying how strong a character is to now it being all about "feats".
This character is X strong compared to this character destroyed X and did X in this scene.
@@missyummy1040 I think it really depends on multiple factors. Battle experience, overall power ofc, techniques, personality, etc. There is more to a fight then just fighting imo
@@Rykiz_Vidz To be fair, feats are what actually matter when it comes to power scaling. Statements can be hyperbolic, and therefore aren't objective. The real issue is when the writers use power scaling as a crutch for lack of story. Essentially, instead of writing a good story with compelling characters, they just make the characters more powerful, and the stakes greater. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with increasing character power and increasing stakes. The problem is when it becomes "instead" as compared to "and."
Db is the godfather of ABC logic scaling
Dragon Ball Super power scaling is the real series that’s whack, and SSB, as well as the God forms and God beings with God Ki are the real fraud ones.
"GT power scaling was whack!"
DBS Frieza in RoF: Guess I'll train off screen for 10 seconds and leap frog over Perfect Cell and Buuhan in terms of power
DBS Goku in ToP: Guess I'll just keep fighting despite getting beat up a lot and losing a lot of stamina like I'm an android.
You have no room to talk about GT's scaling being "whack" when Super was far worse.
@@windows98alpha35 Oh nah I aint ever gonna let that bs frieza pulled go lmao. That was some straight us ass copium writing. GT sucked at scaling but Super is not far behind for sure
Gts show of power was ass
Everything past Saiyan saga should blow up the earth lol
The power scaling is the only things I don't like. It doesn't make sense. I also don't think Baby was naturally as strong as Buu. He gained his strength through his host and boosted it.
Can you do how far monsterverse kong would survive dragon ball
OG Dragonball, Kong does not even get past roshi
U sound crazy Majin vegeta blow himself up and used all his power and you didn't even see it in space was just as small stop the cape
How far would Dante/Vergil/Nero get in Dragonball
I guess a bit far into Namek Saga . Gameplay-wise they'd be overwhelming the Z fighters at the stupid amount of skills , teqniques and weapons .
Don't think the Spardas would survive against beam attacks and death balls though .
@@burgezdoestuff8578 Saiyan arc Vegeta can destroy a planet with one finger, king Vegeta destroyed multiple planets from lifting his cape a little bit. DMC characters aren't even reaching the Namek arc.
Nero alone would solo all of Dragon Ball, is not even close. 😂
@@zel3079 That's a bit of an overstatement . Yeah , there's Pandora Suitcase, but that's only one weapon that could stand a chance post-Namek saga .
If you're desperate for attention. Just hate on GT.
KI control 👍
Hot take gt is better than super supers powerscaling was bs and only thing that was good was all the tourneys including the tournament of power and the one between 7th and 6th and they were good due to ui mui ssjssjg evolved and vegito and fused cauliflowers (ik the name i just want to call them that) + dont you understand every power beam is hit at a strong character that absorbs it idk how to explain it well but ki is kind of like water a ki user is somehow like a sponge and so its absorbed so pls stop with the cope :)
I would argue that the powerscaling in both series are awful, but in opposite ways. GT just ignores the established power scaling, and just does its own thing, but even within the confines of GT, its still inconsistent and nonsensical. On the other hand, Super does try to keep the established power scaling in mind, but they end up going overboard with it, skyrocketing the scaling of everyone and everything to absolutely insane levels of absolutely no reason.
For real i thought gt was pretty fun
@@ikeillue8385 to that point I agree but when it comes to the basics of ki it's kinda not whack but I agree powerscaling was awfull in both but let's not forget every series wasn't meant to be a power scaling show so let's all enjoy the shows we love I'm sorry for any anger in my previous comment
Super copy and pasted a bunch of gt ideas
Actually super is the least liked... if anything gt and z are being cherished more now and days because of the lackluster new series
No. It's GT by far.
Hell no super is way worse by a long shot
@@gohan7389 not according to the numbers. GT cancelled after 64 EPS. Ouch.
@LAYON916 I meant power scaling wise not show wise that was the talking point of the video not which show was better they both sucked and neither 1 can compare to OGBD and Z
@@LAYON916 numbers? Quality over quanity
At least the power level in GT is not as bullshit Like in super and hot take GT is better than super
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about in the video
I would argue that they are just as BS, just in the opposite way. GT ignores the established power scaling of the series, while Super went massively overboard with them.
I know its subjective, but I would disagree with GT being better. Don't get me wrong, Super is not good, but its not nearly as painful to sit through as GT is. Also, and this is probably a hot take too, the best moments in GT hit the level of passable, while the best moments in Super are actually some of the best in the series (though there are very few moments that get to that level.). I know that is a really hot take, so I'll just point out one scene to make my point.
Leading up to the tournament of power, Goku goes to get Frieza, and starts shadow boxing in the ring while waiting. At surface level its just Goku shadow boxing. Who cares, right? However, if you actually look, you will see that the moves Goku makes exactly mimic his fight with Grandpa Gohan, when they fought all the way back in original Dragon Ball. The depth there, the love of the franchise, the fact that they didn't deem it necessary to ham fist what they were doing, its such a good scene, as short and simple as it is.
Agreed Super is so trash
NPC #57 that watched DBS with his eyes closed says what?
And GT is worse just because of the Super 17 arc. Sucks from beginning to end.
And I liked GT, even before it became all trendy to after DBS ended
@@hoohoo431 Sounds like you're just mad people have opinions tbh.
GT is actually way batter than Super in many ways...even the animation..DBS doesn't really make sense tbh
@@dragonforce2582 super and gt both had good and bad things. I also dont get people who say super was flawless... it certainly was not lol
@@ijudgeanime GT had ss4 the best form ever, anyway daima seems to be the least liked show now
Animation? Lol
Super was worse than gt
Ki control was the worst thing to be added into dragon ball
Thats interesting. Not many people would say that something that has been intertwined to deeply in Dragon Ball for almost the entirety of its existence, would be the worst thing. I'm not arguing against you, I just find you stance very interesting.
Personally, I look at it in the fact that most series don't even bother trying to give an in universe reason for the inconsistencies between the big feats, and the general combat, so I applaud them for at least trying to address that issue.
@ikeillue8385 it's mostly because all these quote all out attack like the 1 depicted in the video of vegeta holding back in his kamikaze attack against fat buu , well the broly movie/super hero making character with mindless attacks that would reasonably be universal plus technical just blowing up the planet casual or low angle beam clashes . Ki control makes these attacks and characters inconsistent .now if dbz was more of a marshal arts series instead of a beam fest it's wouldn't be much of an issue
@@blankblank6214 You are confusing concepts. They aren't holding back, they are controlling the energy. By focusing the area of energy release, you aren't reducing the amount of energy, you are aiming it, forcing all of the energy into one smaller point, instead of allowing it to spread out into a much larger area.
@ikeillue8385 not really I'm say it's inconsistencies like there is no reason earth shouldn't have blown up after brolys bezerker rage if he is a planet buster in base or vegetas suicide attack it may be condensing energy but a blast still needs a detination to dissipate that energy as ki control was the explanation on how they could throw out solar system busting attack but not blow up a planet when they miss
@@blankblank6214 There is a reason though. Brolly may be a berzerker, but his rage is still focused on one single target, so he is focusing all his power into that small area.
And with Vegeta's suicide attack, he is still focusing all that power into that small area. Its not that the energy is condensed. Its that the force being released is being focused into a small area. I mean, that is literally a concept that is used with modern day technology, without super human techniques.
Still better than super 😂
Cope video, Super power scaling was WHACK and most disliked entry in the Dragon Ball franchise
Nah, everyone loves DBS. Give my boy, DBGT, some love y'all 🥲
@@Hajime790 super and gt both had moments which made no sense. 100% suoer was no perfect saint lol
Cap, gt is worst
Wait for this man to watch super, shit is going to be wild
Gt is still worst