Dale Jr., Steve Letarte Share Opinions on Ross Chastain's Martinsville Move | The Dale Jr. Download
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- Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2022
- Following Ross Chastain's bold last-lap move at Martinsville, Dale Earnhardt Jr., Mike Davis, and Steve Letarte are sharing their thoughts.
Should NASCAR make a rule to prevent this again? Is this a move that Ross practiced? They answers these questions and more.
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Chastain about broke the internet. I must have watched the replays, from every different angle 50 times. When Monday Night Football shows a NASCAR highlight, you know it was special.
LOL, is the internet only available in the excited states? Both references are from minor national sports.
Yeah it was good for NASCAR.
@@soisaidtogod4248 did you just say NFL is a minor national sport?
@@GeoThaDude MAGAts are mad that NFL players knelt during the National Anthem and weren't suspended. Many of them have "boycotted" the NFL. I say "let them watch 'Bassmasters'"! Haha!
You are right, did a lot for the sport, and honestly, you can totally see Jr doing something like that.
Can Steve just be ON the download all the time? He's so good. And Dale saying "some of them just sounded salty" was gold.
Yes I agree
I agree 100%. Love listening to Steve's descriptions of things
A racing roundtable...mike, dale, steve, and throw kenny wallace in there(he deserves to be on a great podcast) and just let them talk all dy
Ross will be “Runaway Train Chastain” forever.
"Wall rider Ross"
If Ross wins the title, this move is the greatest of all time
If NASCAR was the NFL or NBA, they’d ensure he did.
Ratings > Truth to corrupt institutions.
I don't even watch Nascar, but this weekend I will. And I bet millions like me are thinking the same.
I completely agree 💯👍
That move works in a lot of racing games.
It’s the greatest move with or without winning the championship! Just brilliant!
I think it’s still is lmao that was awesome…..
I’ll put it this way; I’ve been watching from Ireland for three years, have never had anyone, even racing guys I hang around with at Mondello, express any interest in nascar. After Chastains move, a friend, who has a big superiority complex about how much better circuit racing is and how ovals are stupid, can’t shut up about how cool that move he saw on Facebook was. This has penetrated the consciousness in a huge way.
@ethancooke NASCAR is proper, and if any of the Mondello hoi polloi saw it up close they would be with you 😃 I was fortunate enough to be at two races this year and it is such a show.
Sure us Irish are half asleep anyways
I was in turn 3 in the infield and saw Ross haul the wall. I was in disbelief. I turned around when he got to the front stretch to see if he'd pass Hamlin. Then waited on the Championship 4 to pop up on the big screen and that place went nuts. Everyone in the pit lane, all teams were just astounded. I'm glad I saw it from 15 ft away in person. Had to tell my buddy who is new to Nascar who was with me what we just saw. The greatest move of all time.
Easily. This is a watershed moment in nascar. Lots of new fans coming from this.
"Haul the wall" is a great term.
I was watching a live feed and I thought there was a buffering problem, only to find out Ross broke The Matrix.
It was something to see....but no way was it the greatest move of all time. Let's be honest, thts not a "racing" move....it was a hailmary
@@jkil218 name a better racing move 👍🏽 under a more significant moment 👍🏽
Nascar desperately needed Ross to do that. He’s gone from driving a mid pack car to winning to being disliked by other drivers for his racing style to putting the sport back in mainstream view. Everything that Nascar has tried to revive the sport lately has failed and there’s only been bad press the last few years. This probably isn’t the start of that 90s-2000s type of popularity but with the age of “going viral” this is a great start. Now we just need to fix the safety of the cars and improve the short track product and capitalize on this moment.
By "fix the short track product", I assume you mean there should be more of them. I agree with your point about Chastain. But Martinsville does not need fixing.
@@TonyWud I love short tracks like everyone else but spring Martinsville and Bristol night race were arguably very bad this season. I’m sure goodyear will figure out the tires soon enough but it’s not good to showcase your new car at Bristol and have everyone hitting the wall for no reason
@@TonyWud The package absolutely needs fixing. Everything else from Sunday was a boring snooze.
NASCAR doesn’t really need a rule around this, they just need to be quicker on the yellow flag for the next time someone tries this. But what a move. Nothing like schooling someone.
@@russmoulton8781 okay maybe that
Ross Chastain is the best thing to happen to nascar in a long time. We needed a driver to break the mould.
I AGREE WITH YOU ALL THE WAY ON THAT BROTHER!!! THE MOST CELEBRATED LATE RACE MOVE!!!
Not really a chastain fan but I agree! And the most foolish thing nascar could do is make a knee jerk rule against it, although don’t be surprised if they try to do something like that under the radar quietly in the off season while most people aren’t paying attention
He's the anti Ty Gibbs, spoiled rich boi problem Nascar has right now, and the closest thing to Earnhardt we've had in years.
@@Husqy44 They both drive exactly alike. They're dangerous.
He's the least professional dangerous driver in the series.
I was sitting in turn 4. We all thought his brakes went out or he had a stuck throttle so it took a minute to realize what he had done. Once everyone realized the place went crazy and were completely ignoring Christopher Bells win.
Oh, so that's the name of the guy who won. It was kind of funny watching him celebrate the win with the usual doughnuts... in the back ground of Ross' interview, because all eyes were on him.
If Larson had pulled the same move everyone would have applauded and he'd take all the credit. But since someone ELSE did it, they all cry in their cheerios. Ross is a SMART driver, kudos for their team.
I agree
Who’s crying in their Cheerios? One driver? Everyone loved the move.
Larson is just salty that Ross succeeded where he failed.
Sadly true.
He's smart because it worked, this time.
It was out freaking standing. Do you know how long NASCAR has needed someone to drive that way? To truly do whatever it takes? That's like passing in the dirt, the defense in the grass, driving down pit road wiping down your windshield because you know you have to get back out there on the race track. I needed to see something like that again. That was AWESOME! :D
Not a NASCAR guy but is it still allowed?
I applaud Ross, he has guts and natural driver instincts!! You can't be mad over that!
I'm still trying to imagine what it must have felt like inside the cockpit. You would think it loosened a couple of Chastain's molars.
A wild ride, for sure.
This. A driver that's all for the glory.
@@doomusrlc lot of drivers do it for the glory
Eh, for the drivers and their teams if they're mad I say let em be mad. Not for any drama reason but I mean, it's a good emotional reaction for that kind of situation and easily understandable because it's between mad and absolute incredulity. Or both at the same time. For the fans and armchairs though? Nah you can't be mad, shit's amazing.
I saw it happen live from turn 3, it looked surreal from that perspective, like when you launch a pinball from the plunger. Wildest thing I've ever seen at the track!!!
This was the most intelligent conversation yet that I have heard on the subject. Good job guys.
It wasn't embarrassing. It was BEAUTIFUL. Not many races can be said to have truly awesome and unique finish where no one was hurt or cars were wrecking on the start/finish line. It felt like he did that more for his team then himself. How many do WE need ?
Two
Two
Proceeds to flip into high gear and stands on it.
The actual lack of any communication except by the coolest spotter ever. It's the entirety of the event that makes it a BEAUTIFUL thing. But what do I know
Not to mention it was hella dangerous, many things could go wrong there for Ross' own safety. Insanely clutch and ballsy move.
What a perfect time for Steve Letarte to be on the show!
Hell of a move. That took balls.
I was in a discussion group about it and Steve hit the nail on the head about why it worked at Martinsville because of the flat configuration and cornering speeds. Only places where it might work again would be Loudon, Phoenix, Richmond and perhaps North Wilksboro if it gets added back. But, this race, track and car had a unique set of circumstances to where while it worked once, it probably won't quite work again.
It might work at Darlington, if you remember the last Xfinity race there #2 Creed tried something kinda similar on the last lap. Gragson ended up winning, I thought that Chastain may have took it from that.
@@cwreese345 the problem with Darlington is it is banked and usually there tend to be cars running a normal high line (hence the Darlington stripe as the fast line was at the wall just off the corner). The speed differential is not high enough between the normal grove and the wall. So what would likely happen is a collision between the wall grinder and a car running close to the wall in a normal groove.
Plus there is the gee factor. Somebody ran quick and dirty calculations on what Ross pulled at Martinsville and figured it to be about 5.4 gees. Get over six gees and you start having problems. But what makes it worse for a driver compared to a pilot is the gee angle as for a driver it is sideways force while for a pilot it pulls down to their torso due to their bank angle. So a driver can't necessarily do a gee strain maneuver to compensate.
Ross didn't "hit" the wall like 99.99% of the cars do when they end up on the wall. He eased into it reducing damage so there was more the car's body could absorb.
@@BlazinRiver1 he explained today that he did damage the front wheel suspension in the process. So he didn't emerge that unscathed.
One guy did predict it. There was a discord stream with a bunch of guys. Just as Chastain entered the corner, one of the dude's yelled out, "Wall it." The others in the group freaked out screaming like everyone who saw it. They all were amazed one of them, as a joke, said to wall it, and it happened. TOOO COOOL!!!
100% agree with Steve. The thing that gets me is that Ross even thought of it. It blows my mind that he tried it let alone pulled it off.
It was the perfect storm of circumstances, and the stars were all in alignment for that move. It took the right driver at that precise moment to pull the trigger and make it work. Chastain *was* that driver, and those who discredit his phenomenal accomplishment are his detractors. I agree with Steve...Ross has hit the reset button, and is born again!
I don't think teams would be willing to allow something like this to happen but this move by Ross had EVERYTHING on the line and this was the perfect opportunity to pull it off
Its not about allowing it, nobody will ever do it again. Even if somebody tries it and makes it happen, other drivers now know its possible and they'll just block the outside and get a massive push themselves.
The fan base needed some positive excitement. Boy did they get it!
And its all going back to boring
Best move ever in NASCAR. Element of surprise and many other factors that will never come together to be duplicated.
I've been saying it and I'll continue to say it, Ross Chastain is the best thing that has happened to nascar in a long time.
As someone who grew up watching Dale, the Alabama Gang (my Grandma taught me about Ralph and Fireball and those boys when I wasn't yet tall enough to reach the countertops) and the rest at Martinsville and Richmond down thru Dale JR and Kevin Harvick, and as a fan who was burned overall by NASCAR... I LOVE WHAT ROSS DID! It isn't the boring political circus that NASCAR has become. It's so much like IROC where there's a herd of cars with exact same set ups. Ross brought NASCAR back to national news, and not for cry baby drama. He made a ballsy, crazy, amazing move to get into the position he needed. He didn't wreck anyone, he didn't try to fight someone like a spoiled child, he didn't make false allegations. HE DROVE THE CAR LIKE HE STOLE IT, and I am now a Ross fan.
Trackhouse brought me back to NASCAR. Ross just stamped my renewed LOVE for the sport after last weekend. I am thoroughly entertained with this new car.
And props to Denny for being cool about it, when he could've easily been ruthlessly ill about it. I would've been pissed, had it been me in his shoes.
@@englishmuffin5274 I think if you've raced at that level for as long as Denny has, you'd have a different perspective on it.
The best move since your dad passed in the grass. Kudos to ross. Making southwest Florida proud.
We outta throw him a parade when the seasons over
@@lancehawk2220 where are you at
@@billmadison2032 north ft myers, my parents live down the street from Ross's brother
@@lancehawk2220 from Lehigh lived on Whittier av. nfm. Now lake placid
@@billmadison2032 nice! Sounds like an upgrade
I instantly became a Ross Chastain fan. I have not been much of a Nascar fan for years , but Ross changed all that !! It was great for the sport. Period.
Yep
Raise the bar and track record 🤣
Not too bad lol
I said thw same thing nearly word for word! I went from 'meh' about Nascar to a fan of Team Chastain in one corner of one race.
@@gamechanger835 exactly !!
Knowing the constant “Back & Forth” between Ross Chastain & Denny Hamlin this season, it was an “Underdog” moment that’ll be remembered for all of NASCAR history. Denny might’ve won the battle, but Ross won that WAR.
It reminds me of another “Underdog” - when Alan Kulwicki won the 1992 Winston Cup Championship with a ton of luck, some mathematical improbability with less than a handful of points and by his track position…
Yeah, I’m rooting for the Melon Man on Sunday!
A movie moment!
I'm going with Ross The Boss Watermelon Man Chastain to win it all and take the Championship Trophy. As much of a well deserved as anyone in NASCAR Cup Racing history. His move he made reminds me of Dale Sr and the Pass In The Grass at Charlotte when he drove around Bill Elliott.
@@davidfoshie7557 … yeah, there have been lot of historically significant “moves” that’ll always be remembered as key moments in the sport. We just haven’t seen too many of them since “the Greats” of the sport have either retired or are racing in a much higher place…
The “Pass In The Grass” at the ‘87 The Winston AllStar Race is still the most discussed among race fans…
and this will rank right up there. I hope to see Ross make that leap to superstardom status on Sunday. It’ll be great for the sport. They need this to happen more than they know…
After seeing the replays a few dozen times it reminded me of them tether cars from the 30s and Ross's car was the only one tethered! He's my new Hero.
I am grateful I was watching the race on TV when this happened, I am super impressed. it takes talent to pull off such moves. I am also blessed and grateful I got to witness the pass in the grass.. I am not saying they are the same, however they will both be remembered forever by us fans.
I wonder what the uptick in viewership will be on Sunday. That will be interesting!
This one moment rejuvenated my love for this sport. I haven't watched NASCAR for years. Now I am excited to watch again. The fact that it relates to a movie I loved as a kid also is just icing on the cake. THEY need to make a sequel!!
Agreed haven't watched NASCAR in 5 years but I will watch Sunday to see if the one of the greatest win at all costs things in racing and for that matter all of sports can finish 1st with a championship victory.
Which movie...CARS. lol
@@josem2468 … I think he meant that cornball “Days of Blunder” movie…
@@twoblacklabs904 Nah nah nah Talladega Nights 2
Or Chariots of Fire lol
The element of surprise made it work. Ross Chastain is driven to win, and it's refreshing.
Loved it! Best last lap race ever! Crowd went nuts! Great for the sport! New rule coming…. It’s ok and life will go on.
Ive been waiting so long for this part of the podcast lol
The fact that I first heard about the move from the F1 pages I follow tells me everything I need to know about it.
Pure and simple he got the physics right, and it was superb skill getting through it. I'm not so sure luck played a big part at all. He simply carried all his momentum into the corner coming off the straightaway. At this point you have just enough inertia to carry you at least halfway through the corner against the wall before friction stops you. So ... All he needed at that point was the horsepower to push through the friction, which he did had in 5th gear. Fantastic driving and the move was executed perfectly.
What an awesome move. That won't be forgotten very soon.
I don’t even watch nascar or any racing and I’ve been watching ross chastein recaps all week! That was the coolest thing I’ve seen, a movie moment!
Ross said afterward that he had his hands off the steering so that means that centrifugal force kept his car against the wall.
I think that made it work because if he was turning it into the wall it would have greatly increased friction and he wouldn’t have gotten the speed he did and been able to hold that speed which was a brilliant move on his part.
I could be 100 miles off on the theory but I think this was how it worked
You gotta love what these young drivers are willing to do. The talent pool for nascar has never been better. And as a fan I can't wait for what's to come.
That move by Ross was incredible I don't know if I want everyone doing that again cause it's been done.But it goes to show that when they told him he needed two spots he took what ever it takes to a different level I think it was brilliant
I don’t even watch NASCAR but I’m watching this and loving it. Shows how far that clip has gone
When I saw the Jr cam footage all I saw was jealousy on Jr's face while Burton was in disbelief. When I saw it live I had Burtons reaction. I won't be surprised if Jr tries to ban Ross's successfull hail Mary! Ross's move is absolutely epic and I'll never forget that.
Really enjoy Steve Letarte. Wish him and Dale could have worked together longer. He provides such good insightful conversation.
He was awesome as Jr’s crew chief!
Been waiting for this video since Sunday!
A legend was born in the span of a few seconds.
As I recall, the camera shot when the winner was coming to the line was from turn 1. With that shot, it just looked like somebody wrecked in turn 4.
I took my attention away at that point. I then looked back and saw somebody wrecking across the line. It wasn't until after the race ended that his move was really noted.
Of all the adjectives to use...the one to remember is history. This was a history making moment
Spot on Dale and Steve. Glad I could witness it live on TV
It happened at Eldora Speedway during a truck race. Can't remember the guys name, but remember everyone jumping to work on the truck so he could make the feature race. I also remember how hyped up Tony Stewart was about the move.
Was it Norm Benning? Larson also slammed the wall a lot trying to beat Bubba Wallace at Eldora.
Not sure. I remember he was an independent owner/driver that didn't really have parts. All the other big teams were taking parts from their trailers and slapping them on his truck while he watched in amazement. Reminded me of when my father raced, how other racers would pull together to help each other finish the night. It's all about family, even if your not family.
Dale Senior is laughing and being tickled at that Chastain move !!!!!!! You know he is !!!
I have always been a big Darrell Waltrip fan since growing up watching him at Fairgrounds Speedway NashvilleAnd since Darrell retired from Nascar I never had a driver to root for until this year when Ross Chastain came on the scene .Thank You Ross for bringing back the joy of having someone to root for.Also great Interview guys!
I loved this clip. I knew it was huge when it made sports center center number 1 top 10 plays the next day. ✌️
Entirely agree. Such a move is a one and done, too dangerous to stay but too awesome to chastise.
As for Ross. All those folks behind Denny were never going to be in the 4. All Ross had to do was finish ahead of Denny and Ross did it. Bad ass move!! 👍
Sorry, but doesn't every position count for one point? In other words, if Chastain needed two points, didn't he only need to end the race two positions higher than he was at that moment when they told him he needed two extra points?
@@stadleroux no. Ross had to pass Denny to make the transfer to 4. None of the drivers had a position to get a transfer. Only one Ross.
@@garywoody5594, oh OK, I thought the points were calculated using all positions, not only those still in the running to make it to the next round. 👍
I dont watch nascar very often, but im definitely watching the next one. Go Ross
Here's the #1 reason this amazing move happening is great for the sport. I haven't watched a NASCAR race in 20 years. I don't even think about NASCAR when i'm naming off sports. This move just lit the marketing for the NASCAR Championship Race on fire. I ran into this clip on RUclips with my 6yo son, he thought it was super cool. Now i'm watching other content and the two of us are going to sit down and watch the Championship race. If this moment can bring me back to the sport for even a week and interest my kid, just think of how many more people are influenced by it. Creativity, guts, heart. Anything that draws more people to the sport is a good thing. This one is going to live on the highlight reels for all time, and if he wins the championship, it will be immortalized forever.
This move really captured the spirit of Nascar. It was genius, and within the rules.
NASCAR needs more ruthless drivers like him
always enjoy it when Steve shows up.
Loved how Chastain drove the heck out of his car! Awesome ending I've seen in a long time! Enjoyed listening to Steve! Great show! ❤🇺🇸❤🏁❤
This is what I have to say about it, whether somebody says they don't like it who cares the man did what he did to go ahead and be in the four cars running for the championship, you do what you got to do to win. If Dale Earnhardt senior was alive and he knew about it he would have done it and they would have said oh that's genius, so quit worrying about how he did it he did it and he made it and just say good job young man good job.
This is his pass on the grass moment, absolutely legendary.
If you look up reactions on RUclips, the best one is a group of friends watching it. Last lap one guy yells, “alright Ross wall ride it!” And then he freaking does it and everyone loses their mind.
do you know what channel its on?
@@chrisminton8563 Look up Ross Chastain’s wall ride reaction on the TwistedToe channel.
Loved the segment. Would have loved to see yall touch on the itsy bitsy fact that this tactic has existed in almost competitive racing video games since their inception. It would have been hilarious to see you three react to it for the first time :P As someone who grew with them in their advent and played racing games this was like seeing a childhood dream come true. I don't want to see it again either though, since these aren't bits of data, these are pricey machines. Driver's lives are priceless so this should and most likely will be ruled out just as they think. Bravo.
Another great download interview! Steve added great insight to several thoughts on this episode. The man is very intelligent.
I absolutely loved what Ross did!! Having said that, I can’t imagine these track owners are gonna want to see this happen at their track.
That’s a good point! I didn’t even think about the track owners getting their walls knocked down.
Why wouldn't they? This is the most amazing thing that could happen at your track ever. All it costs them is some paint on the wall.
That’s what insurance is for
Nascar owns most of the tracks they race at
ok grampa
Chastain move was awesome but I doubt anyone would ever attempt it again
I love that Mike referenced short track speed skating. That and snowboard cross are my favorite sports to watch in the Winter Olympics.
Great episode. I've been waiting for this one.
Steve Letarte Is Awesome
It was kind of like the motorcyle wall of death you see at fairs and bike weeks. And I am with Steve I think the tire did have a role in this feat.
best last lap move ever !!!!! shift to 5th and pin it all the way to finish line , i have been a fan for a long time , always loved Dale Sr , but even he would be impressed with that move ....
Dale Sr would've been proud of that boy!
I loved it, Ross is now in the top 3 of my favorite drivers. Y'all are right, if there is a next time, it's "oh well" there's that move again. It was brilliant and I'm rooting for him now.
I’ve lost the full interest in watching every race from start to finish, I still keep up with everything and that wasn’t embarrassing for the sport at all, I’ll be watching the last races start to finish I guarantee that, see if this move pays off in the end, that would be amazing to see him win it all by getting in on that move.
I think my favorite thing about his move is that it made me remember "Oh right, stock car racing and NASCAR can be pretty damn cool." Because sometimes it's just video game stuff like this, not to diminish the skill needed, and other times it's the kind of tight, tight driving skills that will keep you at the edge of your seat as you watch the blocks, feints, passes and parries between everyone in the race.
Great conversation. I enjoyed all the points given
From a Nascar fan…IT WAS MAGNIFICENT! Took us back to the Dale Sr days. PERIOD!
Steve is awesome!
Ross gained a ton of fans after that last lap. 👏
I cried when I saw Ross do that. Haha best moment of racing I ever saw.
I hope NASCAR doesn't make any changes....we need to see more of this!
I think they have to cause. If they don't change it. All of em would do it and It will be like train 🚅 or something 😅. If too much car attempts this. The wall might not handle that much car and even if it can handle this. The train of cars would absolutely smash the car in the front like a Train and potentially destroy the car.
Also if the wall couldn't handle it. It would be one of the most high profile Nascar Mass deaths due to accident
I'd love to see Ross's merchandise sales for this coming race and compare it to his year round average. I bet he doubled his fan base in one lap.
In half a lap 😂
NASCAR dying a slow death. A driver does something exciting. And drivers are salty ruining NASCAR. And I can Guarantee that Dale Sr. would have done it.
This was the most exciting thing to happen to Nascar in decades.
Love y'all take on this one 🔥
All very well said! You guys nailed it! Was so awesome and history was made
Great conversation!
I was watching this on tv,, I thought my cable or TV screwed up, had to watch all the replays, this was an amazing moment. Tv stations that don't cover nascar where showing it.
Speed skating reference was on-point
I I feel it was something NASCAR needed for the excitement level. It definitely was fun to watch just not sure if I want to see that again myself
FINALLY!! I have been waiting for this
Glad your headed for Late Model racing. Ran a 68 Chevelle stock car. So much fun. Late Model racing is Better Then Cup.
it was the absolute purest form of racing, he needed to pass 2 cars, and he did it, by pure speed and pure balls.
ross chastain is a full bore wide open racer, and the hail melon proved it.
I’ve never watched a NASCAR race, but I love Jr. and this podcast and i’ve literally been waiting for them to talk about this thing, this “coolest thing i’ve ever seen” thing.
Great analysis of this historic action . Well done guys
Been waiting for this coverage
I agree it was exciting and absolutely unbelievable even though I saw it with my own eyes. My biggest problem with that "RISKY ROLL OF THE DICE MOVE" is KNOWING HOW MANY CARS COULD HAVE BEEN COLLECTED AND SEVERE INJURIES COULD HAVE HAPPENED OR WORSE CASE, EITHER CAREER INJURIES HAPPENING OR WORSE LOSING A DRIVER TO A MOVE THAT'S ILLEGAL IN IRACING, OR possibly more than one driver could have been unae to race ever again or dead!! Facts!! Ballsy move, but not smart considering how many driver's have been sidelined already because these next gen cars in my opinion are NOT SAFE AT ALL!!! THANKS FOR ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO DALE!! All of your podcasts and insight is invaluable and interesting and entertaining and even funny at times which is essential since racing is serious business with possible serious consequences due to wrecks. Love you ALL and your precious family and really enjoy your views on your podcasts 💞🤗💞👍🙏🙏 Keep up the great work!!!
I was at the very top of the grandstand section BBB at exit of turn 4 with a great view and saw it all unfold and in all my many years of racing have never witnessed something like that when I got back to the campsite I told everybody we had just witnessed history and something we will probably never see again. It was awesome to watch and I had C Bell in the pool too!!!
This is the video I’ve been waiting for!!