@@knuffelbaer1971there was a really small block that both trains entered then tried reserving the next block but one couldn't as the other train got it first so it stopped.
Coming from Factorio, I had no idea the actual placed down rail segments had an effect on the way the signals worked. I just assumed it worked from signal to signal in order to determine the pathing
For *block* signals, that is exactly how it works. You reserve the block on entry, and this controls the whole block until the next signal. For path signals, it's a bit more complicated: 1. Each segment is treated as if it was a separate block (a sub-block, if you will). Only one train can reserve a given segment at a time. 2. You reserve segments on approach, not on entry, and this only controls the segments you reserved. Trains will automatically try to reserve all segments they intend to path through or cross, up to the next block signal. 3. A path signal will not turn green (confirming the reservation) unless a train can reserve everything it wants to the next block signal, and that signal is currently green. 4. A path signal will coordinate with consecutive path signals to ensure that you have a full reservation all the way to the block signal, so you can "chain" path signals for more complicated intersections. 5. You could place path signals nearly everywhere (they can't be used in front of stations), but that's probably a bad idea because it would cause each train to reserve a large portion of the network at once, greatly reducing overall throughput. This is why the standard recommendation is to only use path signals in complicated intersections, and to prefer block signals on straightaways and other trivial rail structures.
@@NYKevin100 sounds like its the exact same as factorio, chain signals are path signals, and rail signals are block signals. Chain into and inside an intersection, rail out
2:56: Met this situation in actual gameplay. That was pretty strange, but understandable behavior. But when I was away (another side of the map), trains crashed in the same situation. Weird :)
What's interesting is if the crossing rails are not at the same elevation (the tracks dont intersect vertically) the trains will not stop for each other and crash into each other.
The size of the block zone before a path signal is what causes slowdowns. If it’s just block signals on a route, then the spacing of block signals has no impact on speed. For the block before the path signal tend to use 1 full length track.
When a train approaches a path signal it attempts to reserve the next block zone, Regardless of how many path signals it has to go through to get to that block zone. So if the block signals that were staggered in this video were replaced with path signals, the trains would’ve reserved both path zones on its way to the block zone causing any slowdown to occur before the staggered signals.
Distance between path signal and block signal distance You want your block signal to be at a good distance from the path signal Why? Cause path signal looks at the block signal, not at the train. That means if they are far apart, when the block signal detects the train, it can send signal to the path signal to reserve a spot for the train at the junction, this way the train does not has to slow down. But if block and path signals are close to each other, block signal won't be able to communicate with the path signal in time, therefore it will stay red and slow down the train. A good distance is 1 full segment of track away, but you may need to reduce it a bit if you have more than 2-3 trains crossing the junction at any time 1 full segment is when you extend rail from one end to it's maximum possible length. To find just place one rail on a flat surface, and stretch as far as possible before it turns red, that's the length of 1 segment
my personal block size is the length of a train near stations and twice the length of a train away from stations. then after switching intersections i do half length to allow for a quicker response of the path signal if there are 2 trains going down the same path. and looking at this, i might want to make the entry block 3-4x the length of my trains. (my longest trains tend to be 2 engine and 8 freight)
What variety? The dedicated right turn lane. Or let a train pass going the other direct type? I have videos that show both types in the Reddit video playlist.
@@BitwiseAssembly not sure, as I have never done a slip lane before. I don't fully understand them. Or how to make them. For example. You have 3 trains. 1 train at a station. 1 train waiting to go into that station. The 3rd train goes onto a slip lane. Passes the train that is waiting, and then the track crosses the main track. And the train slips pass. Or something like that.
Ok so that’s not either of those. That sounds like a waiting zone that is out of the path of the through traffic. You can’t make a train take a longer path, and there is no mid drive reroute. So you are limited in options.
Distance between path signal and block signal distance You want your block signal to be at a good distance from the path signal Why? Cause path signal looks at the block signal, not at the train. That means if they are far apart, when the block signal detects the train, it can send signal to the path signal to reserve a spot for the train at the junction, this way the train does not has to slow down. But if block and path signals are close to each other, block signal won't be able to communicate with the path signal in time, therefore it will stay red and slow down the train. A good distance is 1 full segment of track away, but you may need to reduce it a bit if you have more than 2-3 trains crossing the junction at any time
That was.. a wonderful experience that leaves me without sufficient words.
E
Man, the sound of these machines in unison is incredible!
i dont understand what's going on. needless to say i watched it all.
me too... what is the last test about? E-stop? How can you block a reservation?
@@knuffelbaer1971there was a really small block that both trains entered then tried reserving the next block but one couldn't as the other train got it first so it stopped.
Coming from Factorio, I had no idea the actual placed down rail segments had an effect on the way the signals worked. I just assumed it worked from signal to signal in order to determine the pathing
For *block* signals, that is exactly how it works. You reserve the block on entry, and this controls the whole block until the next signal. For path signals, it's a bit more complicated:
1. Each segment is treated as if it was a separate block (a sub-block, if you will). Only one train can reserve a given segment at a time.
2. You reserve segments on approach, not on entry, and this only controls the segments you reserved. Trains will automatically try to reserve all segments they intend to path through or cross, up to the next block signal.
3. A path signal will not turn green (confirming the reservation) unless a train can reserve everything it wants to the next block signal, and that signal is currently green.
4. A path signal will coordinate with consecutive path signals to ensure that you have a full reservation all the way to the block signal, so you can "chain" path signals for more complicated intersections.
5. You could place path signals nearly everywhere (they can't be used in front of stations), but that's probably a bad idea because it would cause each train to reserve a large portion of the network at once, greatly reducing overall throughput. This is why the standard recommendation is to only use path signals in complicated intersections, and to prefer block signals on straightaways and other trivial rail structures.
@@NYKevin100 sounds like its the exact same as factorio, chain signals are path signals, and rail signals are block signals. Chain into and inside an intersection, rail out
Thanks for sharing this, some information in here I didnt know yet
Thanks for researching something I'd only vaguely considered.
Very informative and helpful.
2:56: Met this situation in actual gameplay. That was pretty strange, but understandable behavior. But when I was away (another side of the map), trains crashed in the same situation. Weird :)
What's interesting is if the crossing rails are not at the same elevation (the tracks dont intersect vertically) the trains will not stop for each other and crash into each other.
どれも非常に興味深い実験です！
気になっていたけれど検証していなかった内容が検証されており、とても参考になりました！
If I know anything about the Japanese from PiroPiro playing Minecraft, it's that they'll spend 3 hours testing for every 1 hour playing.
That was pretty satisfying
So, how much space should I leave between blocks so that trains don't slow down too much?
The size of the block zone before a path signal is what causes slowdowns.
If it’s just block signals on a route, then the spacing of block signals has no impact on speed.
For the block before the path signal tend to use 1 full length track.
@@BitwiseAssembly Could you alternatively turn those blocks into paths and get a similar effect?
When a train approaches a path signal it attempts to reserve the next block zone, Regardless of how many path signals it has to go through to get to that block zone. So if the block signals that were staggered in this video were replaced with path signals, the trains would’ve reserved both path zones on its way to the block zone causing any slowdown to occur before the staggered signals.
And also quick question how exactly do you start all your trains at the exact same that that easily
I turned on the power.
The setup was built with the power off, you can tell a train where to go even with no power.
Like with most tech solutions, turn it off and on again
Ten foundations (80m) seems to be a good middle ground between space, and keeping speed.
Distance between path signal and block signal distance
You want your block signal to be at a good distance from the path signal
Why? Cause path signal looks at the block signal, not at the train.
That means if they are far apart, when the block signal detects the train, it can send signal to the path signal to reserve a spot for the train at the junction, this way the train does not has to slow down.
But if block and path signals are close to each other, block signal won't be able to communicate with the path signal in time, therefore it will stay red and slow down the train.
A good distance is 1 full segment of track away, but you may need to reduce it a bit if you have more than 2-3 trains crossing the junction at any time
1 full segment is when you extend rail from one end to it's maximum possible length. To find just place one rail on a flat surface, and stretch as far as possible before it turns red, that's the length of 1 segment
my personal block size is the length of a train near stations and twice the length of a train away from stations. then after switching intersections i do half length to allow for a quicker response of the path signal if there are 2 trains going down the same path.
and looking at this, i might want to make the entry block 3-4x the length of my trains. (my longest trains tend to be 2 engine and 8 freight)
Thank you so much! I was looking for a comment explaining what's happening here and at least there is one
Interesting test bro nice vid cool to see how the trains behave i mean i play satisfactory for already a long time and here i learned some new stuff
Yooo this is such a great video
SO satisfying
Ironically pretty accurate to real life.
The spacing numbers are wrong I think.
You have labelled:
0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 50, 62, 74, 86, 98, 100, 112, 124, 136, 148, 160, 172
should be:
0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60*, 72, 84, 96, 108, 120*, 132, 144, 156, 168, 180, 192.
Yeah… I guess I messed that one up.
interesting ,very informative
Choo choo... can you do a full video on how to do a slip lane, and how they work please.
What variety?
The dedicated right turn lane.
Or let a train pass going the other direct type?
I have videos that show both types in the Reddit video playlist.
@@BitwiseAssembly not sure, as I have never done a slip lane before.
I don't fully understand them. Or how to make them.
For example. You have 3 trains.
1 train at a station. 1 train waiting to go into that station.
The 3rd train goes onto a slip lane. Passes the train that is waiting, and then the track crosses the main track.
And the train slips pass. Or something like that.
Ok so that’s not either of those.
That sounds like a waiting zone that is out of the path of the through traffic.
You can’t make a train take a longer path, and there is no mid drive reroute. So you are limited in options.
THX
what was the first test about?
Distance between path signal and block signal distance
You want your block signal to be at a good distance from the path signal
Why? Cause path signal looks at the block signal, not at the train.
That means if they are far apart, when the block signal detects the train, it can send signal to the path signal to reserve a spot for the train at the junction, this way the train does not has to slow down.
But if block and path signals are close to each other, block signal won't be able to communicate with the path signal in time, therefore it will stay red and slow down the train.
A good distance is 1 full segment of track away, but you may need to reduce it a bit if you have more than 2-3 trains crossing the junction at any time
@@gunjitkumar thanks!
Thanks. Very informative. :)_
i dont understand what im watching
I never used trains. I do not use trains... I will not use trains.... :)
is it too hard for little toughbeard? :(
@@ppeez ROFL... I prefer Hardcore... I use sushi belts exclusively. I used to put rails down to transfer power :)
@@Toughbeard wow that really is HARDCORE! ROFLMAO!!!!!!11
@@ppeez :)
@@Toughbeard pics or it didn't happen