Thank you for doing such a good job at explaining preload. I picked up a used set of shocks to replace my leaky air shocks and was looking for instructions on how much preload to put on them for the weight of myself, or passenger combined weight, but I finally got it after listening to you explain it. My hangup was adjusting the shock on the bench. It looks like you are compressing it, but when you showed what happens to the shock when mounted on the quad, I got it. Thanks a bunch for doing the video
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! I have been sooo confused with the mechanics of shock adjusting and couldn’t find a decent thread or video that explains how the shock components worked. It finally clicked in my head after viewing this video so again thank you for taking the time to make this demo/explanation video because it finally made sense to me. Hahaha it kind of seemed like you were getting a little frustrated yourself trying to come up with a way to explain how the complicated suspension mechanics work, but describing it in the easiest way or manner so that it could actually be understood and end up being useful and put to use!!! *** ANYONE NEEDING BEGINNERS INFO ON HOW A SHOCK OR HOW THE SUSPENSION WORKS, DEFINITELY WATCH THIS VIDEO FIRST!!!!!
Billy Kirk Glad I was able to help. It's not the whole "scientific" explanation , and there are more factors beyond what I get into I'm sure.... but it helps to get a good basic concept.. I made this video after debating on a blog about the topic , so I was a bit frustrated at the time. lol. Thanks for watching !
Haha , you must have one of those nice new suspension ones , Sweet ! I am still bouncing around on old fashioned hard tail lawnmower. Glad this helped, thanks for watching !
If you have 4 " of shock shaft showing under load, that gives you four inches of shock travel. if you add preload till you have 5" shock shaft showing under load, then you still have 5" of shock travel. if your shocks are bottoming out under a specific load, then adding a ton of preload should help it from bottoming out.
When tighten the spring preload , it increases the ride height. But it reduces sag and that can adversely affect the shock performance because the rod has less rebound length available . So when you go through a bump the shock will extend rapidly and abruptly. A couple inches of sag is needed for a proper suspension . Imo
You are correct and just want to add, spring rates can also be changed per rider weight, this is the reason why Elka asks what the rider weight is. They may also change valving inside the shock per rider weight. Sag is a must for a shock to preform correctly.
Just to add to your video the stiffness in the ride people feel after adding preload is not from the shock. The increased angle of the a-arms result in increased tire scrub during suspension travel. That is why stock suspensions typical have as close to level a-arms without sacrificing clearance.
The only reason to crank up that pre load is when you are hauling around a very fat mama, with a case of beer and a carton of cheap Indian smokes. Then you gotta crank that sucker way up. Big mama gotta to ride in comfort.
really liked the video! i observed when my bike was jacked, the springs went completely loose from seats. bike has 3 years. maybe the springs have compressed a bit during the time. i adjusted the springs till they got small compression with bike still jacked. then adjusted all springs to the one which had the least sping lenght. with increased height i was thinking that the bike wont be so stable anymore, but it all went completely opposite. it is more stable in corners now due to reduced sag.
Thanks for making this video man, I've never owned an atv b4 but I just bought a polaris ranger 800 utv. I was really wondering how these adjustments work. ..
Awesome video! So question, I'm a big guy around 300 lbs I seem to bottom out sometimes when riding. I've had my 4 wheeler about a month shocks are at factory settings in the middle groove as seen on your factory ones. Would adjusting them stiffer help or better of spending the money on an aftermarket set?
Turn up the preload. It doesn't make them stiffer , it just gives you less sag due to your weight. Elka shocks will do wonders. Just make sure you contact them and give them your weight , luggage, and riding style. They will give you a custom setup when they build them.
The spring you had off the atv is a progressive spring, the spring rate will increase the more it’s compressed. The shock/springs on the atv is a linear spring, that spring rate will not change until coil bind. Also measure shock eye to shock eye when referencing for better accuracy. Also you are affecting toe and bump steer when not at stock ride height so be careful.
I get that. What I explain here is simply the ride height vrs spring tension, but I understand a progressive spring changes as compressed. What I am pointing out is the spring does not compress more , just because you add preload. It raises your ride height, which then effects your bump steer and toe. I am telling people NOT to crank preload to max in this video, or at least trying to help them understand why not to. Again , spring does not compress when you adjust ride height. it Simply adds or removes sag , regardless of spring rate.
Thanks for the reply, not sure how it effects handling on the Grizz, on a dirt bike it's a big difference, not sure if it's 2 vs 4 wheels thing. Let us know if you start experimenting with sag, appreciate the info you provided. (wgc on GC)
so should i not touch mind like its set how i got it and my atv is alot losser like hiw it rides its set like how urs are set in this video if i would go down one knotch on all of them would that hurt like how it feels its not stiff any more when i sit on it and i want it back
Hi! Would you say that the shocks were a great addition to the Grizz? I can't find any info on weather guys have found gas shocks to be a big ride improvement on the Grizz or not. Thanks
Little late to the party, but here is my question- what is the recommended sag setting or is there one? I know dirt bikes have recommend sag settings do ATV'S?
So you recommend not adjusting them ? I just bought the spanned wrench and was gonna go up a notch or 2 in the rear since I'm a heavy dude. What are ur thoughts ?
Vincent Dickhaut No , by all means play with the adjustments.. Hopefully you get a bit of a better idea of what happens when you do ,after watching. For heavier loads , you may need to raise your ride height to center your shocks back out , as you add more weight you increase sag , and eventually you may have too much.
Well ,, heres the deal..As I am still learning myself ... What the Highspeed/lowspeed compression does , is slow the rate the shock compresses , so if you have more weight , when you hit bumps , it wont compress as fast , or as far.. but the spring stays the same stiffness..You would add Preload ( the ring you spin) to help compensate for trailer load .. I hope that makes sense.. I personally have not towed with the new shocks yet.. Thanks for watching !
You know ,, I was kinda anti alum skids... And I still think Heavy duty plastic may be the way to go... But I went to the mountains , and I had seen on Grizzlycentral that other guys have messed up the bottoms of their quads rock climbing , and I did not want it to happen to mine.. I will say the Yamaha alum Skids fit perfect , and have rubber between the Alum and the steel .. So I am liking them more than I thought I would.. I really dont require them here in WI , with no rock climbing , but they do look cool .. lol Thanks for watching !!
Yes , they are heavier than the stock plastic skids ,, by quite alot.. But being that the weight is down low , it does not effect performance that much.
actually it does what it says it is LOAD adjuster. so lets say your maximum carry load is 160kg and you have 5 steps, thats basically 20 kilos per step from 160 down, so if you weight only 60 kilos you should have it on 1, if you weight 100 on 3 and if you weight 140 like me, on 4 or 5... thats it... if you carry 160kg and have it on 1 youll sag your shocks all the way down and you wont have shock travel, converselly if you weight 40kg and have it on 5 your shocks will be so stiff you wont be able to compress them further
@Doc Lex I don't think you followed what I am trying to explain. The spring doesn't compress more when you change setting. It doesn't magically become stiffer of softer. It simply moves the dampening rod in or out , which alters ride height and amount of sag in your suspension. The coil spring never changes stiffness. It ALWAYS remains the same spring. You would need to change the spring to do that. You could also adjust the dampening to effect stiffness duringriding. However, most std suspension does not offer a dampening adjustment. This will also not affect spring stiffness , and will only be felt during riding. There is also a rebound adjustment on some shocks , which will also affect the ride. I do not cover any of that in this video. I get it's not what most people think , but trust me, I have a point here that you will likely grasp after you think this all through a few times. Once it clicks , you will get what I am trying to say. You are not alone in your thinking , as most people get misinformed on this by a general lack of understanding of suspension by the public in general. Thanks for watching!
@@POHLHAMMER actually you dont follow what i am trying to say, and also i dont need to agree with you cause you are not some 'shocks' god, you dont have a monopoly on knowledge, i am twice as old as you and working as a car mechanic all my life, and i can tell that you explained it quite ok in the video, but still you refuse to see another point of view... if you compress a coil with those 5 steps, of course it becomes stiffer cause the more you compress it the more harder is to compress it more, that ring with 5 steps doesnt move both sides of the coil, it just moves one side so if you move one side of the coil and the other remains the same -you compress it -compressed coil is more stiff, if you dont understand that, than we dont have anything more to discuss... it's not magically more stiff like you say -of course it is the same coil with the same rate of rebound, but if your preload is cranked all the way, it is harder to compress more (i call that stiffer)
@Doc Lex Wrong. The rod moves. Only way to compress spring more would be by adding weight. You are thinking of the shock when not installed and not under load. Once installed, your concept of reality is mistaken. I respect your experience, and wisdom. However I am not wrong , nor need to be a God to be correct. I am no spring chicken myself , born in the late 70's. If you want to change spring rate , you change the coil. If you want to adjust ride height , you move preload settings. I am respectfully trying to help you understand what I am explaining in this video. Read other comments. Some guys have it click in their head , some don't. Old dogs CAN learn knew tricks ya know 😉 ✌️.
@@POHLHAMMER I'm not disagreeing that it changes sag, but my ass and whole body disagrees with you in the stiffness, so does the user manual and makers of aftermarket shocks.
@@POHLHAMMER Your own video says he's right. This is exactly what you're saying at the 6:00 minute mark. Watch what you said again. If you crank up the preload too high, you'll end up running out of travel when the wheel drops into a hole and you'll end up with a stiffer ride.
SWEET !! nice choice ! There really is not much you can do about it... I know its annoying at first , but as it gets "seasoned" it will bother you less.. Makes it look tougher IMO.. Thanks for watching!
This is the best explanation of preload I've heard. I finally understand the association between preload and ride height. Excellent job!!!
Thank you for doing such a good job at explaining preload. I picked up a used set of shocks to replace my leaky air shocks and was looking for instructions on how much preload to put on them for the weight of myself, or passenger combined weight, but I finally got it after listening to you explain it. My hangup was adjusting the shock on the bench. It looks like you are compressing it, but when you showed what happens to the shock when mounted on the quad, I got it. Thanks a bunch for doing the video
Your welcome, thanks for watching!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! I have been sooo confused with the mechanics of shock adjusting and couldn’t find a decent thread or video that explains how the shock components worked. It finally clicked in my head after viewing this video so again thank you for taking the time to make this demo/explanation video because it finally made sense to me. Hahaha it kind of seemed like you were getting a little frustrated yourself trying to come up with a way to explain how the complicated suspension mechanics work, but describing it in the easiest way or manner so that it could actually be understood and end up being useful and put to use!!! *** ANYONE NEEDING BEGINNERS INFO ON HOW A SHOCK OR HOW THE SUSPENSION WORKS, DEFINITELY WATCH THIS VIDEO FIRST!!!!!
Billy Kirk Glad I was able to help. It's not the whole "scientific" explanation , and there are more factors beyond what I get into I'm sure.... but it helps to get a good basic concept.. I made this video after debating on a blog about the topic , so I was a bit frustrated at the time. lol. Thanks for watching !
Fantastic explanation that's just what I wanted to hear believe it or not it's for my lawn mower could not find anything but I came across your video
Haha , you must have one of those nice new suspension ones , Sweet ! I am still bouncing around on old fashioned hard tail lawnmower. Glad this helped, thanks for watching !
If you have 4 " of shock shaft showing under load, that gives you four inches of shock travel. if you add preload till you have 5" shock shaft showing under load, then you still have 5" of shock travel. if your shocks are bottoming out under a specific load, then adding a ton of preload should help it from bottoming out.
This is true, but it will suck on rebound. He does have the Elka 4’s so he will be able to adjust the rebound rate with the bottom clicker. 👍
When tighten the spring preload , it increases the ride height. But it reduces sag and that can adversely affect the shock performance because the rod has less rebound length available . So when you go through a bump the shock will extend rapidly and abruptly. A couple inches of sag is needed for a proper suspension . Imo
Yes , exactly!
You are correct and just want to add, spring rates can also be changed per rider weight, this is the reason why Elka asks what the rider weight is. They may also change valving inside the shock per rider weight. Sag is a must for a shock to preform correctly.
preload is the term used when force is applied prior to a jump in racing. what was described here is ride height adjustment or "squat".
EXACTLY!
They’re both called pre-load
Slow ride motorcycle; preload throttle let out clutch apply rear brake- practice slow riding
Just to add to your video the stiffness in the ride people feel after adding preload is not from the shock. The increased angle of the a-arms result in increased tire scrub during suspension travel. That is why stock suspensions typical have as close to level a-arms without sacrificing clearance.
The only reason to crank up that pre load is when you are hauling around a very fat mama, with a case of beer and a carton of cheap Indian smokes. Then you gotta crank that sucker way up. Big mama gotta to ride in comfort.
really liked the video!
i observed when my bike was jacked, the springs went completely loose from seats. bike has 3 years. maybe the springs have compressed a bit during the time. i adjusted the springs till they got small compression with bike still jacked. then adjusted all springs to the one which had the least sping lenght.
with increased height i was thinking that the bike wont be so stable anymore, but it all went completely opposite. it is more stable in corners now due to reduced sag.
Thanks for making this video man, I've never owned an atv b4 but I just bought a polaris ranger 800 utv. I was really wondering how these adjustments work. ..
Rob / BILL Pries Your welcome , glad I could help.
Hi! How much shoud be The sag? 30% of the shock 40%?
Awesome video! So question, I'm a big guy around 300 lbs I seem to bottom out sometimes when riding. I've had my 4 wheeler about a month shocks are at factory settings in the middle groove as seen on your factory ones. Would adjusting them stiffer help or better of spending the money on an aftermarket set?
Turn up the preload. It doesn't make them stiffer , it just gives you less sag due to your weight.
Elka shocks will do wonders. Just make sure you contact them and give them your weight , luggage, and riding style. They will give you a custom setup when they build them.
The spring you had off the atv is a progressive spring, the spring rate will increase the more it’s compressed. The shock/springs on the atv is a linear spring, that spring rate will not change until coil bind. Also measure shock eye to shock eye when referencing for better accuracy. Also you are affecting toe and bump steer when not at stock ride height so be careful.
I get that. What I explain here is simply the ride height vrs spring tension, but I understand a progressive spring changes as compressed. What I am pointing out is the spring does not compress more , just because you add preload. It raises your ride height, which then effects your bump steer and toe. I am telling people NOT to crank preload to max in this video, or at least trying to help them understand why not to.
Again , spring does not compress when you adjust ride height. it Simply adds or removes sag , regardless of spring rate.
Any idea how to adjust the other adjustments? I have similar shocks as you but mine are kyb which came on my outlander 800x xc.
Those Elkas look sweet
Thanks for the reply, not sure how it effects handling on the Grizz, on a dirt bike it's a big difference, not sure if it's 2 vs 4 wheels thing. Let us know if you start experimenting with sag, appreciate the info you provided. (wgc on GC)
so should i not touch mind like its set how i got it and my atv is alot losser like hiw it rides its set like how urs are set in this video if i would go down one knotch on all of them would that hurt like how it feels its not stiff any more when i sit on it and i want it back
Made sense to me good explanation
glad , and thanks for watching !
Hi! Would you say that the shocks were a great addition to the Grizz? I can't find any info on weather guys have found gas shocks to be a big ride improvement on the Grizz or not. Thanks
chaparral285 Major upgrade , and improved ride. Money well spent !
Thank you for your reply! Just saw your other video about your upgrades. Awesome
So basically, for off-road you want to have as much sag as possible w/o it bottoming out?
Ya , I would say that is pretty much the case. Unless you are racing, and then ride height may play a bigger role.
Little late to the party, but here is my question- what is the recommended sag setting or is there one? I know dirt bikes have recommend sag settings do ATV'S?
William Conlon Very good question... I am not sure.. Might vary depending on riding style I would guess.. ?
William Conlon I would say yes as well. Snowmobile's are about 2". I would start there
Do you have any issues with the piggybacks ever making contact with the muffler or gas tank at that angle? Or do they barely move?
No they do not move , and I have no contact issues at all. I LOVE the Elka's ! Thanks for watching !
Thanks!
so how do I keep my wheels from rubbing on my plastics when I hit bumps? can I tighten them? or do I need new shocks?
What size tires ?
So you recommend not adjusting them ? I just bought the spanned wrench and was gonna go up a notch or 2 in the rear since I'm a heavy dude. What are ur thoughts ?
Vincent Dickhaut No , by all means play with the adjustments.. Hopefully you get a bit of a better idea of what happens when you do ,after watching. For heavier loads , you may need to raise your ride height to center your shocks back out , as you add more weight you increase sag , and eventually you may have too much.
ok so if turn the adjustment higher... that's best for heavier loads? thanks
so do the shocks work better while pulling a trailer with the shock turned up or down
Well ,, heres the deal..As I am still learning myself ... What the Highspeed/lowspeed compression does , is slow the rate the shock compresses , so if you have more weight , when you hit bumps , it wont compress as fast , or as far.. but the spring stays the same stiffness..You would add Preload ( the ring you spin) to help compensate for trailer load .. I hope that makes sense.. I personally have not towed with the new shocks yet.. Thanks for watching !
nice vid. is there any particular reason you changed to ali skid plates
You know ,, I was kinda anti alum skids... And I still think Heavy duty plastic may be the way to go... But I went to the mountains , and I had seen on Grizzlycentral that other guys have messed up the bottoms of their quads rock climbing , and I did not want it to happen to mine.. I will say the Yamaha alum Skids fit perfect , and have rubber between the Alum and the steel .. So I am liking them more than I thought I would.. I really dont require them here in WI , with no rock climbing , but they do look cool .. lol
Thanks for watching !!
Are the much heavier than the plastic ??
Yes , they are heavier than the stock plastic skids ,, by quite alot.. But being that the weight is down low , it does not effect performance that much.
Spring won't get softer nor harder. It just lifts atv body. Shock will top out, it won't have enough travel to work
What kind of shocks are those?
ELKA'S
I have a question then is it still better to make it stiffer if i want to ride with my gf or leave it the same. My machine is a 2005 yamaha kodiak 400
Adding a little preload , which raises ride height not make it stiffer , would be recommended if additional weight is added.
what kind of shock are you running in that video on the atv?
Elka Stage 3 front , stage 4 rear.
Man I miss my ITP XTR's
Wish they made them 32" for my.new SxS Polaris General
I really enjoy the content keep it coming:)
Glad your liking it , Thanks for watching !!
I got a question is there any way I can take scratches of my grizzly and prevent them
Don't ride it.. lol J/K Not really , scratches add character anyways. Do you have a painted quad , or just plastic ?
Matt Moore This is a shock video. Burn the grizzly. No more scratvhes
actually it does what it says it is LOAD adjuster. so lets say your maximum carry load is 160kg and you have 5 steps, thats basically 20 kilos per step from 160 down, so if you weight only 60 kilos you should have it on 1, if you weight 100 on 3 and if you weight 140 like me, on 4 or 5... thats it... if you carry 160kg and have it on 1 youll sag your shocks all the way down and you wont have shock travel, converselly if you weight 40kg and have it on 5 your shocks will be so stiff you wont be able to compress them further
Not exactly. They don't get stiffer or softer. You simply lose range of motion or gain it. Yes the weight or load is what effects that ride height.
@@POHLHAMMER actually, the spring does get stiffer or softer, but not the central part (rod) that is always the same
@Doc Lex I don't think you followed what I am trying to explain. The spring doesn't compress more when you change setting. It doesn't magically become stiffer of softer. It simply moves the dampening rod in or out , which alters ride height and amount of sag in your suspension. The coil spring never changes stiffness. It ALWAYS remains the same spring. You would need to change the spring to do that.
You could also adjust the dampening to effect stiffness duringriding. However, most std suspension does not offer a dampening adjustment. This will also not affect spring stiffness , and will only be felt during riding. There is also a rebound adjustment on some shocks , which will also affect the ride. I do not cover any of that in this video.
I get it's not what most people think , but trust me, I have a point here that you will likely grasp after you think this all through a few times. Once it clicks , you will get what I am trying to say.
You are not alone in your thinking , as most people get misinformed on this by a general lack of understanding of suspension by the public in general.
Thanks for watching!
@@POHLHAMMER actually you dont follow what i am trying to say, and also i dont need to agree with you cause you are not some 'shocks' god, you dont have a monopoly on knowledge, i am twice as old as you and working as a car mechanic all my life, and i can tell that you explained it quite ok in the video, but still you refuse to see another point of view... if you compress a coil with those 5 steps, of course it becomes stiffer cause the more you compress it the more harder is to compress it more, that ring with 5 steps doesnt move both sides of the coil, it just moves one side so if you move one side of the coil and the other remains the same -you compress it -compressed coil is more stiff, if you dont understand that, than we dont have anything more to discuss... it's not magically more stiff like you say -of course it is the same coil with the same rate of rebound, but if your preload is cranked all the way, it is harder to compress more (i call that stiffer)
@Doc Lex Wrong. The rod moves. Only way to compress spring more would be by adding weight. You are thinking of the shock when not installed and not under load. Once installed, your concept of reality is mistaken. I respect your experience, and wisdom. However I am not wrong , nor need to be a God to be correct. I am no spring chicken myself , born in the late 70's. If you want to change spring rate , you change the coil. If you want to adjust ride height , you move preload settings.
I am respectfully trying to help you understand what I am explaining in this video. Read other comments. Some guys have it click in their head , some don't. Old dogs CAN learn knew tricks ya know 😉 ✌️.
It is true a little bit the higher the shocks the less leverage the a-arms have on the shocks
I turned mine on my Polaris and it is alot stiffer. I put spacers on the front and it is stiffer to.
Exactly, no matter how you look at it you are compressing the spring you’re adding stiffness .
The shock is not stiffer. The angle of the a-arms and the resulting tire scrub cuase the bad ride.
have u ever had urs shut of in water?
No
Preload absolutely,.100% changes stiffness if you have the same weight on the bike.
Wrong. Thanks for watching!
@@POHLHAMMER I'm not disagreeing that it changes sag, but my ass and whole body disagrees with you in the stiffness, so does the user manual and makers of aftermarket shocks.
@@POHLHAMMER Your own video says he's right. This is exactly what you're saying at the 6:00 minute mark. Watch what you said again. If you crank up the preload too high, you'll end up running out of travel when the wheel drops into a hole and you'll end up with a stiffer ride.
The increased angle of the a-arms and resulting tire scrub cause the stiffness.
@@jimmace6148 That's not what you said in the video. Now there's really no reason to think you know what you're talking about.
Ummm its called preload for a reason
Yuuup.. It really is that simple.
Some guys just can't grasp it.
ok thanks for the help
all you need to do is get a tiger tail tow system, its a life saver if you ride with someone!
I would like one ,, but man r they expensive !
Think I am going to try and make something myself someday...
Thank you
Jay Z Your welcome , Thanks for watching!
that would be hard to do i love my grizzly 700
alright man thx
The spring isn’t compressed ,the shock gets longer.
yuuup
For 700 subs snorkel the grizzly
cubbex shirt lol I subscribe to them too
James Oliver they are awesome !!
Nice wheeler bro. Terrible explanation. LoL
Thanks ,Sorry it went over your head. Its not easy to follow.
This is wrong on so many levels :( sadly one of the most popular shock adjustment videos. . .
Explain how it is wrong on one level ? please enlighten..
This is very correct, josh g is sadly wrong..
just plastic my is the same model and kind as urs
SWEET !! nice choice ! There really is not much you can do about it... I know its annoying at first , but as it gets "seasoned" it will bother you less.. Makes it look tougher IMO..
Thanks for watching!
Lmfao
Whats so funny Dixie ?
Do you really feel qualified to make videos like this?
Yes. 💯
Thanks for watching!
Whaaaat....???? Huhhhhhh????
🤯🤯